From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10rc5mm$1g1s7$1@dont-email.me...

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.
Bob La Londe
------------------------
What type of steel would you use?

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 11/04/2026 01:47, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make
them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with
what I have found so far.

For a number of applications where I like to have dedicated spanners
handy I buy suitably sized DIN 894 single ended spanners that live with
the equipment.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"David Billington" wrote in message news:10rdj6p$1r9o4$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/04/2026 01:47, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I have found so far.

For a number of applications where I like to have dedicated spanners
handy I buy suitably sized DIN 894 single ended spanners that live with
the equipment.

------------------------------

I buy second hand tools to leave with machines and vehicles that may need
them or in the sheds out back, where they could be left outside. The candidates for making are thin wrenches which are harder to find
individually and may be specific to a particular tool, such as shaft
wrenches for angle grinders.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking


"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> posted:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10rc5mm$1g1s7$1@dont-email.me...

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.
Bob La Londe
------------------------
What type of steel would you use?

Previous wrenches made from 4140HT have been adequate. They can fail because they're a little too soft, but only when you are abusing them. I have wrenches for poet chucks that i've made and use a few times a week, sometimes every day. I think many commercial forged wrenches are a similar alloy with a harder heat treat.

I've got a mildly damaged. One of my homemade wrenches what I plan to forge down a little bit. Then remind the opening and play with heat treat. But I don't think I'll ever be set up to do bulkheat treating.
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking


Bob La Londe <user16941@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> posted:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10rc5mm$1g1s7$1@dont-email.me...

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.
Bob La Londe
------------------------
What type of steel would you use?

Previous wrenches made from 4140HT have been adequate. They can fail because they're a little too soft, but only when you are abusing them. I have wrenches for poet chucks that i've made and use a few times a week, sometimes every day. I think many commercial forged wrenches are a similar alloy with a harder heat treat.

I've got a mildly damaged. One of my homemade wrenches what I plan to forge down a little bit. Then remind the opening and play with heat treat. But I don't think I'll ever be set up to do bulkheat treating.

Sigh! I think google's AI is deliberately screwing with my voice to text application. There's no way what I said. Sounds like what it put down.
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/10/2026 5:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.

From time to time I make a mold for a customer, and they want a wire
bending tool for wire forms to go in the mold before castings. I've
made a few. Each one custom for a single application. I've also made a
lot of form gages. I'm working on a design that will manage a larger
array of wire forms, wire sizes, and form sizes, and still have some repeatability. Not a universal tool, but a tool with a wide range of capability. Because it will require multiple setups and some manual refinements to finish I have to look at everything including material
cost.

One of the needs is to be able to easily turn the rotating assembly that
forms the bends. If I design it to use a wrench I can make each
rotating assembly dual use, but putting the wrench hex in the middle,
and a different form/inside radius setup on each end. If put it up for
sale (general intention) it needs to be able to perform all basic
functions out of the box. I have to include a wrench. I could also use
a tommy bar like a vise handle, but it will require another secondary operation to heat and upset or even just smash the ends or thread and
install caps. A wrench can just be tossed in the box. It will not be
the only tool that needs to be included, but the others are cheap. I
already buy Allen style hex L wrenches by the hundreds for mold clamping screws. One goes in the package with every mold. I would prefer a made
in USA wrench as it simplifies customs when exporting to some other
countries, if I can just put made in USA on everything. I don't really
want to tie up equipment batching wrenches, when it could be used making
parts that are more profitable.

A tommy bar could be a good solution as its cheaper by an order of
magnitude than a wrench, but its limited to 2 positions 180 degrees
apart and may need to be relatively short to clear the mounting location
of the bender. Since customers range from raw beginner to pro shops
they may have limited mounting options. They most likely will either be clamped in a vise or bolted to a work bench. Personally I don't like
anything permanently in the way bolted to a work bench so I tend to
limit myself to only those things that can't be held in a vise. Both
cases involve clearance issues and limited points of turning. A wrench
gives 6 turning locations and since its easily removed and slipped back
on to take advantage of those it can be much longer (and stronger)
making bending of heavier wires easier.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10rdtae$1uq7k$1@dont-email.me...

From time to time I make a mold for a customer, and they want a wire
bending tool for wire forms to go in the mold before castings. I've
made a few. Each one custom for a single application. I've also made a
lot of form gages. I'm working on a design that will manage a larger
array of wire forms, wire sizes, and form sizes, and still have some repeatability. Not a universal tool, but a tool with a wide range of capability. Because it will require multiple setups and some manual
refinements to finish I have to look at everything including material
cost.

One of the needs is to be able to easily turn the rotating assembly that
forms the bends. If I design it to use a wrench I can make each
rotating assembly dual use, but putting the wrench hex in the middle,
and a different form/inside radius setup on each end. If put it up for
sale (general intention) it needs to be able to perform all basic
functions out of the box. I have to include a wrench. I could also use
a tommy bar like a vise handle, but it will require another secondary
operation to heat and upset or even just smash the ends or thread and
install caps. A wrench can just be tossed in the box. It will not be
the only tool that needs to be included, but the others are cheap. I
already buy Allen style hex L wrenches by the hundreds for mold clamping screws. One goes in the package with every mold. I would prefer a made
in USA wrench as it simplifies customs when exporting to some other
countries, if I can just put made in USA on everything. I don't really
want to tie up equipment batching wrenches, when it could be used making
parts that are more profitable.

A tommy bar could be a good solution as its cheaper by an order of
magnitude than a wrench, but its limited to 2 positions 180 degrees
apart and may need to be relatively short to clear the mounting location
of the bender. Since customers range from raw beginner to pro shops
they may have limited mounting options. They most likely will either be clamped in a vise or bolted to a work bench. Personally I don't like
anything permanently in the way bolted to a work bench so I tend to
limit myself to only those things that can't be held in a vise. Both
cases involve clearance issues and limited points of turning. A wrench
gives 6 turning locations and since its easily removed and slipped back
on to take advantage of those it can be much longer (and stronger)
making bending of heavier wires easier.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

------------------------------

Instead of a tommy bar I've made a captive folding handle from 3/16" copper plated gas welding rod bent into an acute vee, with the ends turned in
pointed toward each other, to fit a through or opposed holes in the tool. I make the fit snug so the handle stays where I leave it. The handle stands upright to spin the tool on and then is more convenient than a tommy bar to flip from side to side to tighten, plus the rounded end is more comfortable and it can lift clear of nearby obstructions. 3/16" is a good balance
between stiffness in use and bending on simple equipment, a bench vise or anvil.

A dog clutch design is simple to machine on round parts that fit a 5C collet block. The teeth and slots can have parallel instead of radial sides. The round pin variant can have both the tool and wrench's close-fitting holes match-drilled together, then slightly flatten one end of the pins with a hammer for a tight press fit in the wrench.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:49:35 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

A tommy bar could be a good solution as its cheaper by an order of
magnitude than a wrench, but its limited to 2 positions 180 degrees...

<snip>

Without knowing the sizes involved... Could the supplied allen
wrench be used as the tommy bar?

Depending on which end of the allen used you'd have 90 degrees worth of positions with it...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/11/2026 12:10 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:49:35 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

A tommy bar could be a good solution as its cheaper by an order of
magnitude than a wrench, but its limited to 2 positions 180 degrees...

<snip>

Without knowing the sizes involved... Could the supplied allen
wrench be used as the tommy bar?

Depending on which end of the allen used you'd have 90 degrees worth of positions with it...

I've thought of a couple options using the allen or allens including
broaching a hex into the rotating assembly itself. That might
necessitate a long handled L wrench.

When I say tommy bar I mean captive handle like on a bench vise. Slide
it through a hole in the rotating assembly, torch the end and smash it
with a hammer or upset it by driving it into a rivet header.

A tommy bar set in a blind hole could definitely have more than two
positions for leverage.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/11/2026 10:49 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10rdtae$1uq7k$1@dont-email.me...

From time to time I make a mold for a customer, and they want a wire
bending tool for wire forms to go in the mold before castings.-a I've
made a few.-a Each one custom for a single application.-a I've also made a lot of form gages.-a I'm working on a design that will manage a larger
array of wire forms, wire sizes, and form sizes, and still have some repeatability.-a Not a universal tool, but a tool with a wide range of capability. Because it will require multiple setups and some manual refinements to finish I have to look at everything including material
cost.

One of the needs is to be able to easily turn the rotating assembly that forms the bends.-a If I design it to use a wrench I can make each
rotating assembly dual use, but putting the wrench hex in the middle,
and a different form/inside radius setup on each end.-a If put it up for
sale (general intention) it needs to be able to perform all basic
functions out of the box.-a I have to include a wrench.-a I could also use
a tommy bar like a vise handle, but it will require another secondary operation to heat and upset or even just smash the ends or thread and
install caps.-a A wrench can just be tossed in the box.-a It will not be
the only tool that needs to be included, but the others are cheap.-a I already buy Allen style hex L wrenches by the hundreds for mold clamping screws.-a One goes in the package with every mold.-a I would prefer a made
in USA wrench as it simplifies customs when exporting to some other countries, if I can just put made in USA on everything.-a I don't really
want to tie up equipment batching wrenches, when it could be used making parts that are more profitable.

A tommy bar could be a good solution as its cheaper by an order of
magnitude than a wrench, but its limited to 2 positions 180 degrees
apart and may need to be relatively short to clear the mounting location
of the bender.-a Since customers range from raw beginner to pro shops
they may have limited mounting options.-a They most likely will either be clamped in a vise or bolted to a work bench.-a Personally I don't like anything permanently in the way bolted to a work bench so I tend to
limit myself to only those things that can't be held in a vise.-a Both
cases involve clearance issues and limited points of turning.-a A wrench gives 6 turning locations and since its easily removed and slipped back
on to take advantage of those it can be much longer (and stronger)
making bending of heavier wires easier.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

------------------------------

Instead of a tommy bar I've made a captive folding handle from 3/16"
copper plated gas welding rod bent into an acute vee, with the ends
turned in pointed toward each other, to fit a through or opposed holes
in the tool. I make the fit snug so the handle stays where I leave it.
The handle stands upright to spin the tool on and then is more
convenient than a tommy bar to flip from side to side to tighten, plus
the rounded end is more comfortable and it can lift clear of nearby obstructions. 3/16" is a good balance between stiffness in use and
bending on simple equipment, a bench vise or anvil.

A dog clutch design is simple to machine on round parts that fit a 5C
collet block. The teeth and slots can have parallel instead of radial
sides. The round pin variant can have both the tool and wrench's close- fitting holes match-drilled together, then slightly flatten one end of
the pins with a hammer for a tight press fit in the wrench.

A flip flop handle like on some cheap drill press vises, and some other application might be adequate, but bending to suit might be a little
more touchy feely than I would like. Your bend wire handle might work,
but I see customers bending wire as thick as 1/8 inch 308 stainless. I
think a stronger heavier handle might be needed. Maybe something like
1/4 inch 1144 (just happen to have some). The prototype rotating
assembly is planned for 3/4 inch 1144 or maybe 3/4 304 depending on what
I have on the shelf. I lean towards 1144 because its plenty strong in annealed state and much easier to machine.

A more complex mechanism is NOT desired. Maybe if I was making just one
for my own use, but general intent is short production runs. Maybe
20-50 units at a time. Simpler answers are generally better as long as
they work. I like the dog clutch, but that's not an answer for this application.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10re85t$227ir$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/11/2026 10:49 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Instead of a tommy bar I've made a captive folding handle from 3/16"
copper plated gas welding rod bent into an acute vee, with the ends turned in pointed toward each other, to fit a through or opposed holes in the
tool. I make the fit snug so the handle stays where I leave it. ... 3/16"
is a good balance between stiffness in use and bending on simple
equipment, a bench vise or anvil.

A flip flop handle like on some cheap drill press vises, and some other application might be adequate, but bending to suit might be a little
more touchy feely than I would like. Your bend wire handle might work,
but I see customers bending wire as thick as 1/8 inch 308 stainless. I
think a stronger heavier handle might be needed.

-----------------------------

Those are valid concerns. I have an antique Wilkinson anvil to form the
outer bend and align the bent-in ends coaxial, it would be difficult without the anvil's protruding horn and heel. I've bent 1/8" stainless rod into conical spiral wood stove door handles around a form in the lathe, the force was greater than my 3/16" handles need to withstand or would be comfortable applying.



--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/10/2026 5:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.

https://www.yumabassman.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/20260411_163118.jpg

Here is the main body of the bender. While not large you can see its
built rather heavy duty. This is actually the second failed attempt to
prove up the process on this part. I trusted the numbers from HSM
adviser for drilling and broke off two drill bits. For this one I let Google's AI give me some numbers to try and they worked fine, but I
grabbed the wrong tool and put the clearance holes instead of the tap
drill size in the machine for some accessories that screw to the face.
Oops. LOL.

As I mentioned before Google's AI is very biased politically and in
regards to the law, but the technical side is decent.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/11/2026 4:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 4/10/2026 5:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make
them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with
what I have found so far.

https://www.yumabassman.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/20260411_163118.jpg

Here is the main body of the bender.-a While not large you can see its
built rather heavy duty.-a This is actually the second failed attempt to prove up the process on this part.-a I trusted the numbers from HSM
adviser for drilling and broke off two drill bits.-a For this one I let Google's AI give me some numbers to try and they worked fine, but I
grabbed the wrong tool and put the clearance holes instead of the tap
drill size in the machine for some accessories that screw to the face. Oops.-a LOL.

As I mentioned before Google's AI is very biased politically and in
regards to the law, but the technical side is decent.

I'll post the other parts as I make them. When its done I'll post a
short video showing its operation.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking


Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> posted:

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.

Anyway, it looks like nobody has an answer for the original question. Nobody anywhere in all of America sells bulk wrenches like they do hex keys.
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:1776177267-16941@newsgrouper.org...
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> posted:

I don't mean sets. I mean multiples all the same size. I can make them
of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.

Anyway, it looks like nobody has an answer for the original question.
Nobody anywhere in all of America sells bulk wrenches like they do hex
keys.

------------------------------------

Here is a US maker of custom tools, which may not be exactly what you are looking for.
https://pacifictool.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/1hocgju/brands_that_are_still_100_made_in_the_usa/

I'm a custom tool maker though not for sale. Last night I made a stronger replacement for this: https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/brake-spring-tool

When ordering would be too slow or difficult I made custom tooling to work
on military equipment.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/14/2026 10:15 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:1776177267-16941@newsgrouper.org... Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> posted:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make them >> of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with what I
have found so far.

Anyway, it looks like nobody has an answer for the original question.
Nobody anywhere in all of America sells-a bulk wrenches like they do hex keys.

------------------------------------

Here is a US maker of custom tools, which may not be exactly what you
are looking for.
https://pacifictool.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/1hocgju/ brands_that_are_still_100_made_in_the_usa/

I'm a custom tool maker though not for sale. Last night I made a
stronger replacement for this: https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/brake-spring-tool

When ordering would be too slow or difficult I made custom tooling to
work on military equipment.

I make tools or even nuts and bolts when I need to get the job today. Sometimes driving to the hardware store isn't quick enough.

Sometimes making tools makes no sense at all. Years ago I bought a reciprocating saw from Sears. It cut a lot of pipe, rebar, and "stuff"
over the years. A real contractor's tool. When the blade clamp broke
(simple little part) I was in the middle of a job, so I just bought a Milwaukee Super Sawzall to replace it, but I never threw away the Sears
saw. One day I decided it would be handy to have two reciprocating saws
so I started designing a replacement for the broken piece. When I was
about done with the basic modeling I decided to look online and see if I
could find a replacement piece. Sears used to have the best parts
department in the world after all. Sears parts department closed down
even before they went out of business or reorganized or whatever the
heck happened to them, but those parts still exist. I found a power
tool parts seller with the exact part I needed. It was cheaper than the shipping and shipping was pretty darn cheap. I now have a medium heavy
duty reciprocating saw and a heavy duty reciprocating saw.

One of the very first projects I ever did many years ago on the Harbor
Freight mini lathe my wife gave me for Christmas one year was to replace
the pivot bolt on a pocket knife my son had given me as a gift. My son laughed saying it was just a cheap knife, but I am pretty sure I still
have that knife. It opens, locks and closes smoother than ever. Yes,
you can make real parts on a POS mini lathe. Even an unskilled hack can
do it if they take their time and ask for help from the fine folks on rec.crafts.metalworking. One of these days I need to make a new pocket
clip for it.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10rlvg0$ad60$1@dont-email.me...

I make tools or even nuts and bolts when I need to get the job today.
Sometimes driving to the hardware store isn't quick enough.

Sometimes making tools makes no sense at all. ... I found a power
tool parts seller with the exact part I needed. It was cheaper than the shipping and shipping was pretty darn cheap. I now have a medium heavy
duty reciprocating saw and a heavy duty reciprocating saw.

Bob La Londe

---------------------------
I might make a tool for the challenge and experience of trying something
new. If I succeed I have a new skill or opportunity, for instance brake
repair on my car was a problem solving and learning experience. Making new
and modifying a defective flaring tool led me to a source to borrow the excellent Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool. https://mastercool.com/product/72485-universal-hydraulic-flaring-tool-set/

I was using the truck bed as a large bench to finish up a bending brake to form aluminum window frame covering when a neighbor strolled by and asked me what it was, then offered to loan me his Tapco brake for the task. https://homeimprovementsupply.com/p-89-tapco-pro-19-metal-brake.aspx?vid=4078

I think the little bag of home machined parts I took to the interview got me into Segway. At Mitre I was invited to be the electronic tech for a
spacecraft communications laser project, then when my tool samples proved to them I could also design and machine custom hardware I also became the
optical and mechanical tech and could build the lab demo unit the way I
wanted without interference, mostly at home on overtime pay, on my
Apollo-era machine tools.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/11/2026 4:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 4/10/2026 5:47 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I don't mean sets.-a I mean multiples all the same size.-a I can make
them of course, but with material, and machine time its a wash with
what I have found so far.

https://www.yumabassman.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/20260411_163118.jpg

Here is the main body of the bender.-a While not large you can see its
built rather heavy duty.-a This is actually the second failed attempt to prove up the process on this part.-a I trusted the numbers from HSM
adviser for drilling and broke off two drill bits.-a For this one I let Google's AI give me some numbers to try and they worked fine, but I
grabbed the wrong tool and put the clearance holes instead of the tap
drill size in the machine for some accessories that screw to the face. Oops.-a LOL.

As I mentioned before Google's AI is very biased politically and in
regards to the law, but the technical side is decent.

Some progress between other jobs.

https://www.yumabassman.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/20260422_122814.jpg

https://www.yumabassman.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/20260422_122855.jpg
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sbc25$2htdp$1@dont-email.me...

For this one I let Google's AI give me some numbers to try and they worked fine, but I grabbed the wrong tool and put the clearance holes instead of the tap drill size in the machine for some accessories that screw to the face. Oops. LOL.

Shoulder screw (stripper bolts) shanks position more accurately and resist shear better than threads. You could use them in the clearance holes to salvage the part. It looks nice enough to complete and show off.

I used them in reamed holes to attach the fixed jaw and clamp screw mounts
to the flat base of a milling vise for my 6" lathe, which lacks the power to require more solid one piece construction that I didn't have the thick steel or remaining class time to machine.

The projects that lathe couldn't handle convinced me to buy the larger Clausing mill and South Bend lathe. The 6" spins faster for deep drilling
and the grinding/polishing the dealer warned to avoid on the hardened bed
SB. I used it to make a miniature hole saw to free frozen screws on a
mobility scooter that had been rained on.

Hydraulic gear pumps and motors are assembled from a sandwich of plates precisely aligned and clamped with hollow dowels and through bolts. https://www.vogelsangfastener.com/products/ground-hollow-dowels-inch-metric/

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/23/2026 4:29 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sbc25$2htdp$1@dont-email.me...

For this one I let Google's AI give me some numbers to try and they
worked fine, but I grabbed the wrong tool and put the clearance holes
instead of the tap drill size in the machine for some accessories that
screw to the face. Oops.-a LOL.

Shoulder screw (stripper bolts) shanks position more accurately and
resist shear better than threads. You could use them in the clearance
holes to salvage the part. It looks nice enough to complete and show off.

I used them in reamed holes to attach the fixed jaw and clamp screw
mounts to the flat base of a milling vise for my 6" lathe, which lacks
the power to require more solid one piece construction that I didn't
have the thick steel or remaining class time to machine.

The projects that lathe couldn't handle convinced me to buy the larger Clausing mill and South Bend lathe. The 6" spins faster for deep
drilling and the grinding/polishing the dealer warned to avoid on the hardened bed SB. I used it to make a miniature hole saw to free frozen screws on a mobility scooter that had been rained on.

Hydraulic gear pumps and motors are assembled from a sandwich of plates precisely aligned and clamped with hollow dowels and through bolts. https://www.vogelsangfastener.com/products/ground-hollow-dowels-inch- metric/

I just tapped it for Helicoils. I will finish this one as a prototype.
I might even finish the one with drill broken off inside of it. I plan
to adjust the depth of the Helicoils as needed so I can put a slight
counter sink to accommodate the type of screws and fixtures going on
those holes. I think the screw heads might be slightly longer than the
parts and stick though. Trust me its all necessary for the net goal.

I'll probably make the body and adjuster out of 7075 for the production
part, and all the hardware out of stainless. Its stronger than 1018 and
a lot more corrosion resistant. I am just using 1018 and for this
because I had the 1018 on hand and the little bit of 7075 I have is set
aside for another project. Threads will still be strong enough.

On this one because its not a net product yet I can sit around admiring
my handy work, but once it goes to production, even small scale or maybe especially small scale, I have to minimize parts, material, and time to produce, and in particular reduce or eliminate manual operations. I
have done quite a bit on the South Bend turning handles and power
tapping with one hand on the reverse switch, but if I start selling
these I want to setup up five or ten of them at a time on a fixture
plate to go on the Tormach or the Hurco. (Yes, I am still working on
the Hurco.)

P.S. It looks like I'm going to be busy all weekend it looks like.
I've got a number of the BAJA SAE race team guys coming over to make
parts.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sg8mq$2657h$1@dont-email.me...

I just tapped it for Helicoils. I will finish this one as a prototype. I might even finish the one with drill broken off inside of it. ...

Either nitric acid or alum is claimed to dissolve steel without harming aluminum.
Alum is a harmless ag store supply while nitric acid may raise red flags.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/24/2026 11:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sg8mq$2657h$1@dont-email.me...

I just tapped it for Helicoils.-a I will finish this one as a
prototype. I might even finish the one with drill broken off inside of
it.-a ...

Either nitric acid or alum is claimed to dissolve steel without harming aluminum.
Alum is a harmless ag store supply while nitric acid may raise red flags.

I can get either, but you missed the part where I am prototyping in 1018 because its cheaper, and I have it on hand not dogeared for another
project already.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/24/2026 11:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sg8mq$2657h$1@dont-email.me...

I just tapped it for Helicoils.-a I will finish this one as a
prototype. I might even finish the one with drill broken off inside of
it.-a ...

Either nitric acid or alum is claimed to dissolve steel without harming aluminum.
Alum is a harmless ag store supply while nitric acid may raise red flags.

What I usually do on a non cosmetic (prototyping garbage or reject
salvage) through hole is back drill it, and drive out the offensive item
with a punch. On items that must be blind holes I often scrap the part because its cheaper than screwing with it for hours or days. If its
purely cosmetic I can back drill, drive out the bit, and then ream and
plug, but only for my own use. Bearing and sleeve locker for a slip fit
plug works, but a press fit usually looks better. It can be almost
invisible.

As to your other comment, I seem to recall that aluminum is mildy
reactive with acids, but aluminum oxide is very resistant to acids.

However bases are really hard on aluminum oxide which is why lye (desmut solution) is often used as a preparatory step for anodizing. It removes
the natural aluminum oxide so your anodizing process in acid bath can
grow a harder oxide coating.

Aluminum is also highly reactive with air, and forms an oxide coating
that protects it from the air/moisture almost immediately.

Its what sometimes makes learning to weld aluminum tricky. Aluminum
oxide also melts at a higher temperature.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sgesi$a3nu$1@dont-email.me...

If its purely cosmetic I can back drill, drive out the bit, and then ream and plug, but only for my own use.

For those without CNC, the hole on the back side can be centered under the spindle by clamping an upright point, plug or stub drill shank in the vise
and positioning it under the spindle to locate the hole on. It could be transferred from the chuck. Tee slot clamps could hold the part in place on the vise jaw tops.

The drill may be damaged or break at contact with the stuck one, I'd use a small easily replaced bit like 1/8".


--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/24/2026 2:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sgesi$a3nu$1@dont-email.me...

If its purely cosmetic I can back drill, drive out the bit, and then
ream and plug, but only for my own use.

For those without CNC, the hole on the back side can be centered under
the spindle by clamping an upright point, plug or stub drill shank in
the vise and positioning it under the spindle to locate the hole on. It could be transferred from the chuck. Tee slot clamps could hold the part
in place on the vise jaw tops.

The drill may be damaged or break at contact with the stuck one, I'd use
a small easily replaced bit like 1/8".

Or since I know all the reference points and locations, I could just use
an edge finder to set my zeros and move to the location. Can be done
with hand wheels or with a DRO.

Or I could use the working model with a transfer punch... after I knock
the tangs out of the Helicoils.

Trust me I don't like programming up a tiny little job if I don't have to.

It doesn't bother me in the least to waste a drill saving a part. I buy common sizes in batches in screw machine lengths. 7, 21, D, F of
course, but a few others as well. When drill two hits drill one it
ruins the point, and I still have a web of metal, but usually a punch
will go through it. The biggest issue really is if I have enough lead
in to keep the punch straight. I suppose I should make up some sort of
chuck to use pins on one of the presses for that, but its not something
I have to do everyday.

Usually I don't throw the drill away. I just put it in my drill
dispenser drawers loose so I know its used and probably needs to be
reground. New drills stay in the tubes they came in.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/24/2026 7:09 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 4/24/2026 2:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sgesi$a3nu$1@dont-email.me...

If its purely cosmetic I can back drill, drive out the bit, and then
ream and plug, but only for my own use.

For those without CNC, the hole on the back side can be centered under
the spindle by clamping an upright point, plug or stub drill shank in
the vise and positioning it under the spindle to locate the hole on.
It could be transferred from the chuck. Tee slot clamps could hold the
part in place on the vise jaw tops.

The drill may be damaged or break at contact with the stuck one, I'd
use a small easily replaced bit like 1/8".

Or since I know all the reference points and locations, I could just use
an edge finder to set my zeros and move to the location.-a Can be done
with hand wheels or with a DRO.

Or I could use the working model with a transfer punch... after I knock
the tangs out of the Helicoils.

Trust me I don't like programming up a tiny little job if I don't have to.

It doesn't bother me in the least to waste a drill saving a part.-a I buy common sizes in batches in screw machine lengths.-a 7, 21, D, F of
course, but a few others as well.-a When drill two hits drill one it
ruins the point, and I still have a web of metal, but usually a punch
will go through it.-a The biggest issue really is if I have enough lead
in to keep the punch straight.-a I suppose I should make up some sort of chuck to use pins on one of the presses for that, but its not something
I have to do everyday.

Usually I don't throw the drill away.-a I just put it in my drill
dispenser drawers loose so I know its used and probably needs to be reground.-a New drills stay in the tubes they came in.

I love machinery porn .
--
Snag
I appreciated foreign cultures more
when they stayed foreign ...
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sh0n6$fdtu$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/24/2026 2:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Or since I know all the reference points and locations, I could just use
an edge finder to set my zeros and move to the location. Can be done
with hand wheels or with a DRO.

Or I could use the working model with a transfer punch... after I knock
the tangs out of the Helicoils.

Trust me I don't like programming up a tiny little job if I don't have to.

It doesn't bother me in the least to waste a drill saving a part. I buy
common sizes in batches in screw machine lengths. 7, 21, D, F of
course, but a few others as well. When drill two hits drill one it
ruins the point, and I still have a web of metal, but usually a punch
will go through it. The biggest issue really is if I have enough lead
in to keep the punch straight. I suppose I should make up some sort of
chuck to use pins on one of the presses for that, but its not something
I have to do everyday.

Usually I don't throw the drill away. I just put it in my drill
dispenser drawers loose so I know its used and probably needs to be
reground. New drills stay in the tubes they came in.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
----------------------------------
My intended audience is those less well equipped and supplied than you. I don't go through tooling fast enough to make regular orders or buy every
drill size by the dozen and all the local suppliers have closed.

You make new parts on CNC machines from drawings. I and others with simpler equipment (if any remain) may be modifying existing parts, perhaps cast or stamped, for repair. I don't have dimensioned drawings of them, even at
Segway where I got the jobs where I had to reconstruct them from
measurements on castings and machine to scribed line intersections. For many features the chassis print said "see the pattern". They appeared to have
been sand cast.

The last broken screw I drilled out was on my car's distributor and I used
the cap to center on it. The most recent part was a stainless stepped washer turned to fit in the end of a manifold to catcon joint spring.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:10si8rp$pi76$1@dont-email.me...

I and others with simpler equipment (if any remain) may be modifying existing parts, perhaps cast or stamped, for repair.

I suppose the difference is that I live where I need powered outdoor
equipment to deal with nature in summer and winter, and it's either very expensive and unrepairable plastic if new or requires metal work when old, when I acquire it. Road salt is the cause of most of my vehicle repair, without it we'd have much more crash repair.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/24/2026 9:07 PM, Snag wrote:

On 4/24/2026 7:09 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 4/24/2026 2:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sgesi$a3nu$1@dont-email.me...

If its purely cosmetic I can back drill, drive out the bit, and then
ream and plug, but only for my own use.

For those without CNC, the hole on the back side can be centered
under the spindle by clamping an upright point, plug or stub drill
shank in the vise and positioning it under the spindle to locate the
hole on. It could be transferred from the chuck. Tee slot clamps
could hold the part in place on the vise jaw tops.

The drill may be damaged or break at contact with the stuck one, I'd
use a small easily replaced bit like 1/8".

Or since I know all the reference points and locations, I could just
use an edge finder to set my zeros and move to the location.-a Can be
done with hand wheels or with a DRO.

Or I could use the working model with a transfer punch... after I
knock the tangs out of the Helicoils.

Trust me I don't like programming up a tiny little job if I don't have
to.

It doesn't bother me in the least to waste a drill saving a part.-a I
buy common sizes in batches in screw machine lengths.-a 7, 21, D, F of
course, but a few others as well.-a When drill two hits drill one it
ruins the point, and I still have a web of metal, but usually a punch
will go through it.-a The biggest issue really is if I have enough lead
in to keep the punch straight.-a I suppose I should make up some sort
of chuck to use pins on one of the presses for that, but its not
something I have to do everyday.

Usually I don't throw the drill away.-a I just put it in my drill
dispenser drawers loose so I know its used and probably needs to be
reground.-a New drills stay in the tubes they came in.

-a I love machinery porn .

I first read that and thought, yeah okay. Machine porn. Like fishing
porn. Lots of talk about machining, and then I reread my post after
reading your comment and went, "OH! It does kinda read like porn." LOL
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/25/2026 4:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sh0n6$fdtu$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/24/2026 2:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Or since I know all the reference points and locations, I could just use
an edge finder to set my zeros and move to the location.-a Can be done
with hand wheels or with a DRO.

Or I could use the working model with a transfer punch... after I knock
the tangs out of the Helicoils.

Trust me I don't like programming up a tiny little job if I don't have to.

It doesn't bother me in the least to waste a drill saving a part.-a I buy common sizes in batches in screw machine lengths.-a 7, 21, D, F of
course, but a few others as well.-a When drill two hits drill one it
ruins the point, and I still have a web of metal, but usually a punch
will go through it.-a The biggest issue really is if I have enough lead
in to keep the punch straight.-a I suppose I should make up some sort of chuck to use pins on one of the presses for that, but its not something
I have to do everyday.

Usually I don't throw the drill away.-a I just put it in my drill
dispenser drawers loose so I know its used and probably needs to be reground.-a New drills stay in the tubes they came in.

Well transfer punches are a pretty basic way to locate holes, and even
with this "precision" part its good enough for salvaging a scrap part
for personal use. You have to have some way to gage or measure when
back drilling the blind side of a hole with a broken tool in it.

NO, I DO NOT, buy every size of drill by the dozen. I buy half dozen to
a dozen at a time of a FEW common sizes I use regularly. Would you be surprised to know I have multiple drill (jacobs style) drill chucks for
a couple of my CNC machines and I almost never use any of them. I only
drill 4 size of hole routinely on the CNC machines and only have 5 or 6 preloaded in tool holders. On the two X5 Speedmasters I only drill D,
F, 7, and 21. On the Tormach I add an O drill for 5/16 clearance, but I probably haven't used it in year. I recently added some micro carbide
drills (1/16, 3/32, 1/8 and 3/16 very cheap) to the Tormach for the
slide bar and the rotating assembly on wire bender.

Quality individual drills aren't expensive either. I buy name brand HSS drills 6-12 at a time from McMaster or MSC (double check brand if buying
from MSC, they have some cheap stuff too).

My drill dispenser cabinet is for the standard 115 pc set, but I didn't
buy a dozen of each. I emptied out all my old partial set drill indexes gathered up over the years, and many slots in the drawers. I had a tool
box drawer full of loose drills as well which I went through, measured,
and placed in the appropriate drawer slot. No its not a fancy 3 piece
Huot drill dispenser cabinet (although it looks very similar). It was a
Vevor closeout that was marked wrong so they were getting rid of them at cheaper than China prices. The new one is still a lot cheaper than a Huot.

I think you mistake me. My first machining projects were done with no
more than a drill, a circular saw with an abrasive blade, and a bench
grinder. One of the first projects I asked for help with in this group
around 30 years ago was making a recessed panel on blank aluminum
electrical cover plates.

I was installing photo electric beams tied to counters in a US port of pedestrian gate turnstyle area. I found mini almost recessed photo
beams with a 5 year warranty, studied the load of the counters,
protected the contacts with MOVs, and built the power supply. (Yes at
one time I was a government contractor). My biggest concern was in the
close quarters I was afraid the clothing and stuff people were carrying rubbing against them would abrade the lenses and cause them to fail. My solution was to mount them in electrical cover plates with a recessed
panel to reduce (not eliminate) contact and extend their life. It worked.

I made a set of press dies out of A36 with the circular saw (K-mart
special Black & Decker), a hand held drill (Might have been my K-Mart
Black & Decker, but I might have owned a Makita (corded) by then), a jig
saw (Black & Decker), the bench grinder (Olympia), and a Dremel(tm) tool
I borrowed from a friend. I carefully placed the cover plate over the
close fitting bottom die, placed the top die by eyeball, and squished
them with the 12 ton press I just retired. It worked. My biggest disappointment was nobody noticed or appreciated the work I did to make
that happen.

I guess I am a machinist now, but I am very much a use what I got kinda
shade tree mechanic. A few tools I bought because I wanted them, but
99% were purchased because they would make the next job faster, easier,
and hopefully more profitable than the last. I am very much a just home
shop hobby machinist. It just happens to be my job, and I have spent a
lot of years accumulating tools, both as a contractor and as a
machinist... and eh-hem as a shade tree welder... and as unlicensed electrician (previously a licensed low voltage electrician)... and as a
self taught refrigeration technician... and as a self taught plumber...
and as a self taught mechanic... and a few other skills... I was once
even (falsely) accused of being gigolo.

I still struggle with each new challenge, and I still giggle a little
inside if it works out. I don't JUST HAVE a bunch of stuff, and I specifically recognized your "common man" approach with other options.

I admit I do have a bunch of stuff now, but it was hard earned by not
having stuff.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10siu9r$10eac$1@dont-email.me...
...
I think you mistake me. My first machining projects were done with no
more than a drill, a circular saw with an abrasive blade, and a bench
grinder. One of the first projects I asked for help with in this group
around 30 years ago was making a recessed panel on blank aluminum
electrical cover plates.

--------------------------
Please don't take my low tech approach comments as aimed at you, they are grouped with yours to appear if someone else finds and reads the discussion. Someone starting with basic equipment, perhaps.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/25/2026 11:37 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10siu9r$10eac$1@dont-email.me...
...
I think you mistake me.-a My first machining projects were done with no
more than a drill, a circular saw with an abrasive blade, and a bench grinder.-a One of the first projects I asked for help with in this group around 30 years ago was making a recessed panel on blank aluminum
electrical cover plates.

--------------------------
Please don't take my low tech approach comments as aimed at you, they
are grouped with yours to appear if someone else finds and reads the discussion. Someone starting with basic equipment, perhaps.

Then you should have mentioned using a nail as a scratch awl and
locating everything with a ruler. The nice thing about a nail is it low
tech AND it can serve multiple purposes. Scratch awl, crude drill bit,
tire marking gage for wheel alignment, and as a fastener come to mind.

Okay the marking gage requires an accessory 2 by 4, tape measure and an assistant who isn't totally incompetent which might put it out of your
set containing only low tech solutions. If you accept that putting
those parts together can still be low tech it can then be used as a
booby trap after you are done doing a shade tree wheel alignment. Just
toss it out in the yard where your enemies are likely to be walking.

(P.S. I have aligned wheels that way, and even used it to check trailer
axles before and after bending.)
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sjmst$18nnu$1@dont-email.me...

(P.S. I have aligned wheels that way, and even used it to check trailer
axles before and after bending.)
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

---------------------------------

The low tech wheel alignment I learned was to jack them up and scribe a line in the adhering dust with a screwdriver tip on a steady rest (jack stand?) while rotating them. That was for dirt track racers, I used spray paint and marked while wet. The line may show you why not to use the tread pattern. Lower them, roll back and forth to settle and measure between the lines fore and aft. If lacking a tape measure and assistant, long enough wood or metal can be raised on boxes and aligned on one side, then marked on the other.

The front wheels must be straight ahead, they turn to different angles to compensate for different inner and outer turning circles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

For rear wheel drive the fronts should toe in "a little" to compensate for rolling resistance, like 1/16" to 1/8", for front drive they should toe out
at rest and straighten under load. The test is driving over newspaper to see if the tires tear or shred it.

In the rare case of having a Chilton's or Haynes manual it may give the acceptable range, though for my Ranger Haynes says go to a competent
alignment shop. This trick can at least get you there. The factory manual gives +/- 0.13".

Writing this was useful, it led me to the bag of roof rack mounts I need to reinstall, which were under the Ranger book. It would have been in the truck but I stripped the cab of all but the driver's seat to patch rust holes in
the floor. The rack interferes with clearing off snow.

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/26/2026 5:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sjmst$18nnu$1@dont-email.me...

(P.S.-a I have aligned wheels that way, and even used it to check trailer axles before and after bending.)

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

---------------------------------

The low tech wheel alignment I learned was to jack them up and scribe a
line in the adhering dust with a screwdriver tip on a steady rest (jack stand?) while rotating them. That was for dirt track racers, I used
spray paint and marked while wet. The line may show you why not to use
the tread pattern. Lower them, roll back and forth to settle and measure between the lines fore and aft. If lacking a tape measure and assistant, long enough wood or metal can be raised on boxes and aligned on one
side, then marked on the other.

The front wheels must be straight ahead, they turn to different angles
to compensate for different inner and outer turning circles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

For rear wheel drive the fronts should toe in "a little" to compensate
for rolling resistance, like 1/16" to 1/8", for front drive they should
toe out at rest and straighten under load. The test is driving over newspaper to see if the tires tear or shred it.

In the rare case of having a Chilton's or Haynes manual it may give the acceptable range, though for my Ranger Haynes says go to a competent alignment shop. This trick can at least get you there. The factory
manual gives -# 0.13".

Writing this was useful, it led me to the bag of roof rack mounts I need
to reinstall, which were under the Ranger book. It would have been in
the truck but I stripped the cab of all but the driver's seat to patch
rust holes in the floor. The rack interferes with clearing off snow.

See, you had to go complicate everything. A nail makes a nice mark all
by itself (when pushed through a 2x4), and its easy because all you have
to do is stand on the 2x4 when you spin the tire. A nail is also a lot cheaper or maybe even free.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking



"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sm3s6$1u284$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/26/2026 5:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10sjmst$18nnu$1@dont-email.me...

(P.S. I have aligned wheels that way, and even used it to check trailer axles before and after bending.)

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

---------------------------------

The low tech wheel alignment I learned was to jack them up and scribe a
line in the adhering dust with a screwdriver tip on a steady rest (jack stand?) while rotating them. That was for dirt track racers, I used spray paint and marked while wet. The line may show you why not to use the tread pattern. Lower them, roll back and forth to settle and measure between the lines fore and aft. If lacking a tape measure and assistant, long enough wood or metal can be raised on boxes and aligned on one side, then marked
on the other.

The front wheels must be straight ahead, they turn to different angles to compensate for different inner and outer turning circles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

For rear wheel drive the fronts should toe in "a little" to compensate for rolling resistance, like 1/16" to 1/8", for front drive they should toe
out at rest and straighten under load. The test is driving over newspaper
to see if the tires tear or shred it.

In the rare case of having a Chilton's or Haynes manual it may give the acceptable range, though for my Ranger Haynes says go to a competent alignment shop. This trick can at least get you there. The factory manual gives -# 0.13".

Writing this was useful, it led me to the bag of roof rack mounts I need
to reinstall, which were under the Ranger book. It would have been in the truck but I stripped the cab of all but the driver's seat to patch rust holes in the floor. The rack interferes with clearing off snow.

See, you had to go complicate everything. A nail makes a nice mark all
by itself (when pushed through a 2x4), and its easy because all you have
to do is stand on the 2x4 when you spin the tire. A nail is also a lot
cheaper or maybe even free.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--------------------------------
My first lessons in auto mechanics came from Army motor pools and hobby
racers who used the facilities, and couldn't buy tools without knowing
German and metric. Our smaller Kasernes lacked an exchange so most GIs were
as isolated as in a jungle. At the garage or track you may not have a nail
or 2x4 though there are assistants and perhaps tent or flag poles, I still keep tape measures in the car tool kits. We set breaker and spark plug gaps with matchbook cardboard. My electrical tester was a tail light bulb and
wired socket with roach clips. I learned to judge fuel mixture by exhaust smell and release the crinkle that is locking a dent before pounding it out.

I just bought the HF kit with the door skin hammer and slapper to tackle copying the stiffening ridge pattern of my 91 Ranger's floor closely enough for a flush welded patch. A replacement floor pan includes the no longer needed rubber plugged drain hole that trapped tire spray salt and rusted forward from its front edge, my temporary bolted and caulked practice
patches extend the central ridges across the openings and are stiffer.

It's the smaller oval the valleys drain into in this similar one. The step behind supports the seat. I think Ford dipped the welded cab into a vat of heat-cure primer to appease the EPA and those lowest point holes were to
drain it. https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Floor-Pan-Right-1983-90/productinfo/94042/

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/27/2026 5:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sm3s6$1u284$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/26/2026 5:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10sjmst$18nnu$1@dont-email.me...

(P.S.-a I have aligned wheels that way, and even used it to check trailer
axles before and after bending.)

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

---------------------------------

The low tech wheel alignment I learned was to jack them up and scribe
a line in the adhering dust with a screwdriver tip on a steady rest
(jack stand?) while rotating them. That was for dirt track racers, I
used spray paint and marked while wet. The line may show you why not
to use the tread pattern. Lower them, roll back and forth to settle
and measure between the lines fore and aft. If lacking a tape measure
and assistant, long enough wood or metal can be raised on boxes and
aligned on one side, then marked on the other.

The front wheels must be straight ahead, they turn to different angles
to compensate for different inner and outer turning circles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

For rear wheel drive the fronts should toe in "a little" to compensate
for rolling resistance, like 1/16" to 1/8", for front drive they
should toe out at rest and straighten under load. The test is driving
over newspaper to see if the tires tear or shred it.

In the rare case of having a Chilton's or Haynes manual it may give
the acceptable range, though for my Ranger Haynes says go to a
competent alignment shop. This trick can at least get you there. The
factory manual gives -# 0.13".

Writing this was useful, it led me to the bag of roof rack mounts I
need to reinstall, which were under the Ranger book. It would have
been in the truck but I stripped the cab of all but the driver's seat
to patch rust holes in the floor. The rack interferes with clearing
off snow.

See, you had to go complicate everything.-a A nail makes a nice mark all
by itself (when pushed through a 2x4), and its easy because all you have
to do is stand on the 2x4 when you spin the tire.-a A nail is also a lot cheaper or maybe even free.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--------------------------------
My first lessons in auto mechanics came from Army motor pools and hobby racers who used the facilities, and couldn't buy tools without knowing German and metric.

My first lesson in automatics was at about 8 years old when my dad gave
me a socket set for Christmas. When we went back to work the next day
at the grocery store he walked me out back, pointed at the M38 engine (I
know what it is now) that went in his GPW, and said "Take that apart and
sort out the pieces on sheets from cardboard boxes.


Our smaller Kasernes lacked an exchange so most GIs

were as isolated as in a jungle. At the garage or track you may not have
a nail or 2x4 though there are assistants and perhaps tent or flag
poles, I still keep tape measures in the car tool kits. We set breaker

If I used a screwdriver as a scratch awl I would have gotten my ass beat (until I was big enough to fight back), but there were always old boards
with nails in them laying around. As a kid I put a nail through my foot
while bending over nails with my foot to keep other people from stepping
on them. LOL.

and spark plug gaps with matchbook cardboard. My electrical tester was a tail light bulb and wired socket with roach clips. I learned to judge
fuel mixture by exhaust smell and release the crinkle that is locking a
dent before pounding it out.

I have used match book covers to set points gaps. Cleaned off carbon
arc with sand paper wrapped around a popsicle stick too. I still think
it worked better than an actual points file.

I just bought the HF kit with the door skin hammer and slapper to tackle copying the stiffening ridge pattern of my 91 Ranger's floor closely
enough for a flush welded patch. A replacement floor pan includes the no longer needed rubber plugged drain hole that trapped tire spray salt and rusted forward from its front edge, my temporary bolted and caulked
practice patches extend the central ridges across the openings and are stiffer.

It's the smaller oval the valleys drain into in this similar one. The
step behind supports the seat. I think Ford dipped the welded cab into a
vat of heat-cure primer to appease the EPA and those lowest point holes
were to drain it. https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Floor-Pan-Right-1983-90/productinfo/94042/

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 4/27/2026 9:39 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

My first lessons in auto mechanics came from Army motor pools and
hobby racers who used the facilities, and couldn't buy tools without
knowing German and metric.

My first lesson in automatics

Errrr... auto mechanics.

was at about 8 years old when my dad gave

me a socket set for Christmas.-a When we went back to work the next day
at the grocery store he walked me out back, pointed at the M38 engine (I know what it is now) that went in his GPW, and said "Take that apart and sort out the pieces on sheets from cardboard boxes.

Our smaller Kasernes lacked an exchange so most GIs

were as isolated as in a jungle. At the garage or track you may not
have a nail or 2x4 though there are assistants and perhaps tent or
flag poles, I still keep tape measures in the car tool kits. We set
breaker

If I used a screwdriver as a scratch awl I would have gotten my ass beat (until I was big enough to fight back), but there were always old boards with nails in them laying around.-a As a kid I put a nail through my foot while bending over nails with my foot to keep other people from stepping
on them.-a LOL.

and spark plug gaps with matchbook cardboard. My electrical tester was
a tail light bulb and wired socket with roach clips. I learned to
judge fuel mixture by exhaust smell and release the crinkle that is
locking a dent before pounding it out.

I have used match book covers to set points gaps.-a Cleaned off carbon
arc with sand paper wrapped around a popsicle stick too.-a I still think
it worked better than an actual points file.

I actually have a couple points files now, but I have a whole case of
popsicle sticks. Popsicle sticks are much more useful for the
genericness of their use.

I just bought the HF kit with the door skin hammer and slapper to
tackle copying the stiffening ridge pattern of my 91 Ranger's floor
closely enough for a flush welded patch. A replacement floor pan
includes the no longer needed rubber plugged drain hole that trapped
tire spray salt and rusted forward from its front edge, my temporary
bolted and caulked practice patches extend the central ridges across
the openings and are stiffer.

It's the smaller oval the valleys drain into in this similar one. The
step behind supports the seat. I think Ford dipped the welded cab into
a vat of heat-cure primer to appease the EPA and those lowest point
holes were to drain it.
https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Floor-Pan-Right-1983-90/
productinfo/94042/

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10soj53$2mhld$1@dont-email.me...

I actually have a couple points files now, but I have a whole case of popsicle sticks. Popsicle sticks are much more useful for the genericness of their use.

I recently used popsicle sticks to make a car accessory, a backup camera
mount that extends through the center of the rear hatch mounted spare tire, like on a Bronco. I turned the oak filler plug and chiseled the end to a pencil trace of the hole, then filled it out to tightly fit the opening with JB Weld under plastic film, so the weight of a tire sliding off or on won't shift it. The plug will be inside a metal sleeve and end cap after I decide how to waterproof it. An extra lugnut holds the camera bracket. https://www.ebay.com/itm/257432593928

The backup camera is the only improvement I like on new cars. I can't see
cars beside me in poor light through the tinted windows and prefer an emergency brake I can apply and modulate while moving. The center console interferes with buckling up in a heavy winter coat with gloves in the
pockets

I stocked up on point files as they became obsolete because they are compact and valuable for emergency kits to sharpen saws and axes etc. Around here
tree parts are the key to getting a vehicle unstuck alone. Lean rocks on the tires and lever up the axle with a small dead (stiffer) tree trunk, the
rocks fall into the hole. Once up, crosswise branches pave the mud.

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