From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Its an old beater, but the table top doesn't have to many apprentice
marks. Vendor called me and told me shipping would be more than I paid
for it, and asked if I wanted to cancel. Very nice of him.

Still with freight it wasn't outrageous if it turned out to need minor maintenance and maybe surface grind the table. If it needs a complete
tear down recondition, and maybe some repairs, maybe not so much. Unfortunately the vendor let me know he's just a used machinery dealer
and has no clue how good or bad it is. Again, nice of him to be honest
with me.

I figured what the heck, I'd try to find a better freight quote usign a
couple different freight quoters. FedEx and UPS LTL both came in a few dollars less than the vendors carrier. No surprise there. I got a
dozen quotes pretty fast from the quoter services I tried.

No thank you.

I have quotes around from three hundred to three fifteen already from
WELL KNOWN International Carriers. (Fed-Ex and UPS LTL). In fact they
were the first quotes I received. I was stunned at how mercenary the LTL quoter scam was. I've NEVER seen such a high shipping rate on a package
this size. I just had a thousand lbs of aluminum delivered from halfway
across the country for less than is wanted for a hundred fifty lb item.
The freight quoters were all 1130 to 1300.

I guess I have to think about whether or not that rotary is worth the
gamble. I did promise the vendor I'd let him know quickly so he could
get it relisted if need be.

What kills me more than anything is the cartel of companies excuses to
justify their rates.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 12:04:01 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I guess I have to think about whether or not that rotary is worth the >gamble. I did promise the vendor I'd let him know quickly so he could
get it relisted if need be.

Could if be split into two pieces? You're kinda planning to work
on it anyway...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ock32$279h$1@dont-email.me...

Its an old beater, but the table top doesn't have to many apprentice
marks. Vendor called me and told me shipping would be more than I paid
for it, and asked if I wanted to cancel. Very nice of him.
-------------------

The second hand rotary table I bought was available because the table gear machining wasn't centered, if the worm eccentric was adjusted to pass the tight area there was noticeable play elsewhere. That wasn't evident until after disassembly and cleaning to free everything up.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 3/5/2026 12:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10ock32$279h$1@dont-email.me...

Its an old beater, but the table top doesn't have to many apprentice
marks.-a Vendor called me and told me shipping would be more than I paid
for it, and asked if I wanted to cancel.-a Very nice of him. -------------------

The second hand rotary table I bought was available because the table
gear machining wasn't centered, if the worm eccentric was adjusted to
pass the tight area there was noticeable play elsewhere. That wasn't
evident until after disassembly and cleaning to free everything up.

I'm probably going to wait until I am a little more cash flush and just
buy a new one.

I already have a 4" with a small chuck fitted for small stuff, a 6"
CNCed for the Tormach mill, several spin indexers which I used for
indexing 4th axis parts manually before getting the 6" CNC table, and a
BS-0 size indexing head for "precision" indexing.

I can get by without it for most things, but something in the 12 inch or larger range would add some capability. I could make certain types of
molds larger than the working envelope of my machines without
re-indexing. Of course I make molds larger than my machines now, by
moving them and reindexing them. I've built some fixtures with that in
mind to achieve minimal loss of relative position.

I also have the obligatory collet blocks for quick 4 and 6 side indexing
small parts in a vise.

My main reason for posting was I was totally stunned by the price
gouging scam from the freight quoting services.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10oco63$3nff$1@dont-email.me...

I already have a 4" with a small chuck fitted for small stuff, ...

Which one, and how do you like it?

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 3/6/2026 8:35 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10oco63$3nff$1@dont-email.me...

I already have a 4" with a small chuck fitted for small stuff, ...

Which one, and how do you like it?

I don't recall. It was dirt cheap. I made a mounting plate for the
chuck I took off my Harbor Freight lathe.

I don't use it often enough to really say if its any good, but it has
done the jobs I have asked of it. I use the CNC table (from Tormach),
the cheap spin indexers, and even the collet blocks more often. A lot
of the jobs I would have used it for are easier now with other tools.
I've been debating taking the chuck off to use on the 5C arbor Snag sent
me.

I may have a job coming up for the BS-O indexing head. Resizing a
bending die.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ofgd6$2q6gm$1@dont-email.me...

I may have a job coming up for the BS-O indexing head. Resizing a
bending die.
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------

Its center bore is likely 7BS taper, for which collets are still available, the drawbar thread is 3/8-16 like 2MT. You can use them with a shop made centering plug to accurately center a gear blank etc on a faceplate without fuss.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/collet-set-7bs-set-of-7? https://littlemachineshop.com/products/collets-brown-sharpe-7-individual-sizes?

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 3/6/2026 4:09 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10ofgd6$2q6gm$1@dont-email.me...

I may have a job coming up for the BS-O indexing head.-a Resizing a
bending die.
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------

Its center bore is likely 7BS taper, for which collets are still
available, the drawbar thread is 3/8-16 like 2MT. You can use them with
a shop made centering plug to accurately center a gear blank etc on a faceplate without fuss.

That's good to know. I'll read the manual to see if it says for sure.

Mine came with a 3 jaw chuck mounted on the face. It's probably good
enough for a bending die. I'll turn an arbor with a center on one end.
Press or machine (depends on what I have handy) a shoulder on the arbor, thread the outboard end, slide the bending die on the arbor, and cinch
it in place with a nut with either a machine grooved thick washer or
something similar. Then I'll support the outboard end with the included
tail stock.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/collet-set-7bs-set-of-7? https://littlemachineshop.com/products/collets-brown-sharpe-7- individual-sizes?

My Tormach CNC rotary has a morse taper center. I mostly use it with a
collet chuck and the matching tail stock. I've thought about using it
to make a 4 sided tombstone to cut more parts in a single load, but I'm
not sure I'd gain much with the loss of z height and clearance needed
for rotation.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ofnqh$2qhnt$1@dont-email.me...

That's good to know. I'll read the manual to see if it says for sure.

7BS and 2MT are very similar, the wrong one wobbles slightly. A ring of aluminum auto body tape tightened a 2MT arbor enough to use with a shop made boring head in my mill's 7BS spindle, until I found a boring head with a 7BS arbor.

I've learned to put up with old machines that are a little odd, and they likewise with me.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 3/6/2026 5:09 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10ofnqh$2qhnt$1@dont-email.me...

That's good to know.-a I'll read the manual to see if it says for sure.

7BS and 2MT are very similar, the wrong one wobbles slightly. A ring of aluminum auto body tape tightened a 2MT arbor enough to use with a shop
made boring head in my mill's 7BS spindle, until I found a boring head
with a 7BS arbor.

I've learned to put up with old machines that are a little odd, and they likewise with me.

Yep, the documentation says BS #7 taper. Not sure what I would use it
for, but I may pickup a set of collets in that size "just in case" at
some point when I have a pocket full of money and nothing better to
spend it on. Or I may see how much work it might be to convert the 3
jaw it came with into a Set-Tru style... or swap it out with a 4 jaw.

Given the largest BS7 in that set you linked to is only half inch, your improvised Morse Taper solution was probably more rigid than a boring
head with a half inch shank.

I don't actually own a boring head myself. If kinda round is good
enough CNC generally gets me within half a thousandth or round, and lots
of things are made more than round enough easily enough on one of the
lathes, but every once in a while I tell myself something would be
easier and faster on the manual mill with a a boring head. I'll
probably buy a cheap one with an R8 shank at some point, and then
complain that I didn't buy a good one.

I bought the cheap BS-0 almost a year ago, and just took it out of the
box for the first time this week. I haven't fully tested it, but
generally look, feel, and basic function is much better than I expected.
It does not look like a cheap import tool.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ohpkl$1oiia$1@dont-email.me...

On 3/6/2026 5:09 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ofnqh$2qhnt$1@dont-email.me...

That's good to know. I'll read the manual to see if it says for sure.

7BS and 2MT are very similar, the wrong one wobbles slightly. A ring of aluminum auto body tape tightened a 2MT arbor enough to use with a shop
made boring head in my mill's 7BS spindle, until I found a boring head
with a 7BS arbor.

I've learned to put up with old machines that are a little odd, and they likewise with me.

Yep, the documentation says BS #7 taper. Not sure what I would use it
for, but I may pickup a set of collets in that size "just in case" at
some point when I have a pocket full of money and nothing better to
spend it on. Or I may see how much work it might be to convert the 3
jaw it came with into a Set-Tru style... or swap it out with a 4 jaw.

Given the largest BS7 in that set you linked to is only half inch, your improvised Morse Taper solution was probably more rigid than a boring
head with a half inch shank.

I don't actually own a boring head myself. If kinda round is good
enough CNC generally gets me within half a thousandth or round, and lots
of things are made more than round enough easily enough on one of the
lathes, but every once in a while I tell myself something would be
easier and faster on the manual mill with a a boring head. I'll
probably buy a cheap one with an R8 shank at some point, and then
complain that I didn't buy a good one.

I bought the cheap BS-0 almost a year ago, and just took it out of the
box for the first time this week. I haven't fully tested it, but
generally look, feel, and basic function is much better than I expected.
It does not look like a cheap import tool.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--------------------------------------
I've used only a 1/2" 2MT collet in my rotary table, to hold the centering plug for a gear blank bolted to the faceplate. I doubt a 7BS set would do
you any good if you have a chuck so I gave also the single collet reference.

The spindle thread on my BS-0 is 1.5"-8, a common lathe size. I bought a 5" chuck for indexing horizontal work, with the indexer upright there's hardly any tool clearance under the Clausing mill's spindle.

For a 40:1 gear ratio (9 degrees per turn) the incremental advance for N divisions is 40/N turns, using integer division. To index a shaft for a 13 spline motorcycle drive sprocket for my sawmill it would have been 40/13 = 3
+ 1/13 (2/26, 3/39) turns. I didn't have the indexer then but I had a 52
tooth change gear for my small lathe and a very old 1:1 B&S indexer it fit.


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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ohpkl$1oiia$1@dont-email.me...

I don't actually own a boring head myself. If kinda round is good
enough CNC generally gets me within half a thousandth or round, and lots
of things are made more than round enough easily enough on one of the
lathes, but every once in a while I tell myself something would be
easier and faster on the manual mill with a a boring head. I'll
probably buy a cheap one with an R8 shank at some point, and then
complain that I didn't buy a good one.
---------------------------

I need the boring head for things that are difficult to mount or too big to
do on the lathe, flimsy project boxes and electronic control panels. CNC
could handle some if I had it. The most demanding job the boring head did
was reboring the end plate of a hydraulic gear pump for a new custom
bushing, apparently it was slightly misplaced in the factory and then assembled without locating dowels so it could self-center, but it shifted
and jammed when loaded. That's my guess, by the time I had diagnosed why it jammed I had done too much to return it, and I had this nice new-to-me knee mill begging like a puppy for attention...

Naturally I had no dimensioned drawing to go by but could clamp and center
the other end plate and then dowel them together to match the locations. I found that raising the knee gave better accuracy than extending the spindle. The dowels are tubes that the assembly and mounting bolts pass through.

That repaired pump has run my log splitter every year since the 90's. The
pump is in good company, everything else on that thing has been repaired or replaced. The engine was brand new with a leaky carb float. To top it off it had flipped and dragged while being towed. Yet it didn't cost that much to restore, and I learned how.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 3/7/2026 6:55 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I found that raising the knee gave better accuracy than extending the spindle.

That makes sense if you have a tilting head on your mill. Its very
difficult to get the head perfectly trammed so you see no movement over
five or six inches of quill travel. In addition The quill may have more
flex or side to side (and front to back) movement when not clamped.

When you crank up the knee it remains as perpendicular to the X/Y as it
can be, but be aware that some knees have noticeable sag when they are
not clamped or are not perfectly adjusted.

In regards using the quill with a not perfectly trammed head, you get a
bore that is round, but at a slightly angle from perpendicular. (Other
issues not with standing.)

In regards to using a knee with a not perfectly trammed head, you get a perpendicular (again other issues not withstanding) hole that is a
slight oval.

In many cases I've found having the gibs, locks, etc dragging slightly
helps with the "other issues" but accelerates machine wear (over years
not days) by taking out travel surface backlash.

I am 100% aware you probably know all of this. I'm not trying to talk
down to you, but reinforcing the concepts in my own amateur hack
professional shade tree machinist mind.

I've found no matter what I do I get the best results by taking test
cuts and measuring and indicating before taking finish cuts. Of course indicating is also thrown off by the issues with the machine, so
indicating with two different forms of movement can sometimes show you
the differences.

Most of the time I shoot for "good enough." Good enough was one of the hardest things for me to learn in machining. As a contractor I used to
tell my technicians, "If you have to ask if its good enough it probably isn't." Ask yourself instead, "If Bob comes out here in a bad mood and inspects my work is he going to ask me to do it over," and "Never ask me
if your work is okay in front of somebody else unless you are prepared
for me to tell you in front of them." Good enough is a very difficult
skill to master.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10ok9bc$31g2n$1@dont-email.me...

Most of the time I shoot for "good enough." Good enough was one of the
hardest things for me to learn in machining. ...
Good enough is a very difficult skill to master.
Bob La Londe

---------------------------
I fully agree. When it matters I go by the assembly feel of sliding, light finger, heavy hand or press and try to reconstruct the tolerance afterward.
It doesn't help that my machine tools have >60 years of wear and the vernier instruments I have to measure ID and OD to 0.0001" have different feels.

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