• Idea for My Own Tube Notcher

    From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 09:30:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization. All you need
    is a clamp and a spindle. In theory I could use (almost) any half
    decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and improvise
    a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool. (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.) It would only
    be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts loader so
    you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its own... and then
    there is the fact that my CNC machines are better spent cutting more
    valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea. Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins that
    drop into the standard grid on a welding table. Fabricobble something
    similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base vise with prismatic jaws. 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid are the most
    common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production tables, but it
    could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity. Just position the
    vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts you need
    to make. If you need to reposition for long 30 degree notches you just
    move the spindle. Alignment will remain as good as the grid holes on
    the table. It's self indexing. A cheaper to make, but more pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the alignment pins and bolt it
    from the bottom. Even more crude/simple options can be done for single
    or low use as well, but the less time you spend in design and build the
    more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit. Because my shop not only suffers from HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its killing
    me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in drawer when not
    in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards. We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work. That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it took
    me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better.
    Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of the
    problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this. I'm not a machinery dealer, so I am putting it out there in the open. Maybe its a dumb idea. Maybe its a
    great idea. I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you paid for
    it. Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables. He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a price that would
    make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce them efficiently.

    P.S. After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to try
    to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car. One on
    each side. LOL. Me? I'm going to try to get them to all wear my
    company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on. LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM. My welding table doesn't have any holes in it.
    I don't do a lot of welding and fabrication. Most is repair work in
    situ, and often outdoors and out of position. For the few repeat
    assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing I weld
    stops on the table and grind them off when I am done. I have a solution
    for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the right size
    annular cutter. I've got the steel to make the giant t-square and grid
    hole spacers for aligning and moving the square. I just haven't had the
    three days I think I'll need to do it. Well, I haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 13:29:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10o72bs$26ine$1@dont-email.me...

    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization. All you need
    is a clamp and a spindle. In theory I could use (almost) any half
    decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and improvise
    a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, ...

    -----------------------------

    When I had a similar problem with the bucket loader, drilling parallel
    bearing holes 48" apart on a mill with a 24" table, I reduced it to clamping on fixturing that gave the tube effectively a square section with straight parallel sides, an easier shape to mount at the desired angle with standard milling accessories. The tube was square but not perfectly straight. I think
    I used a row of insert vises to create in effect one long flat reference surface. I used them or vee blocks to saw perpendicular 45's on both ends of the water pipe push handle for the sawmill. I don't remember which because I tried several approaches with the equipment on hand.

    If I was to make fixturing for round tubing it would be several pairs of bolt-together vee blocks without vise handles protruding inconveniently from the side. A shallow vee on the backs could center the drill bit or hole saw. Recessed bolt heads would let the work be flipped.

    I use a Portalign as a portable sliding spindle, but itrCOs a woodworking tool whose stiffness may be inadequate for other than perpendicular holes in steel. Perhaps if a mill isn't available a square clamp block fixture
    mounted on a tilted drill press table would do for fishmouthing tubing?

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 14:43:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:10o799a$29dn0$1@dont-email.me...

    Although not a help to you but perhaps a hint, my Shopsmith serves pretty
    well as a horizontal or angled boring machine for wood, between the spindle quill feed and the table elevation screw. Its main advantage as a drill
    press is the two tube support, so the head and table can't twist out of position. The quill feed and depth stop enable very fine adjustments to the rip fence gap for precise joinery. Most of the panel cabinet doors I made on it would hold together by friction.

    If you had a spindle with a shell OD of 1" or less it could mount in a 5C
    spin index for manual feed.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 13:24:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/3/2026 12:43 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"-a wrote in message news:10o799a$29dn0$1@dont-email.me...

    Although not a help to you but perhaps a hint, my Shopsmith serves
    pretty well as a horizontal or angled boring machine for wood, between
    the spindle quill feed and the table elevation screw. Its main advantage
    as a drill press is the two tube support, so the head and table can't
    twist out of position. The quill feed and depth stop enable very fine adjustments to the rip fence gap for precise joinery. Most of the panel cabinet doors I made on it would hold together by friction.

    If you had a spindle with a shell OD of 1" or less it could mount in a
    5C spin index for manual feed.


    Remember that weldments are generally pretty brute force rough
    applications compared to machining. Somebody welding up a roll cage and
    tube frame chassis isn't chasing thousandths for the main structure
    usually. Their main measuring tool is probably a tape measure and if
    they are conscientious they use only one tape measure for the whole job.
    If they are chasing thousandths they probably have a lot more
    expensive equipment than you or I, and they are letting a machine do ALL
    the work.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 13:29:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/3/2026 12:43 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"-a wrote in message news:10o799a$29dn0$1@dont-email.me...

    Although not a help to you but perhaps a hint, my Shopsmith serves
    pretty well as a horizontal or angled boring machine for wood, between
    the spindle quill feed and the table elevation screw. Its main advantage
    as a drill press is the two tube support, so the head and table can't
    twist out of position. The quill feed and depth stop enable very fine adjustments to the rip fence gap for precise joinery. Most of the panel cabinet doors I made on it would hold together by friction.

    If you had a spindle with a shell OD of 1" or less it could mount in a
    5C spin index for manual feed.


    I alluded to this in my initial write up, but I'm not afraid to spend a
    few hours extra making something if its going to save me 20/30 minutes
    every time I set it up and use it.

    I approach mold making this was all the time. If I am cutting one
    cavity I just do whatever gets the job done. If I am cutting 20
    cavities I may spend an hour or two optimizing cut strategies and doing
    code simulations. If I am planning to sell the same mold for years I
    may spend a whole extra day figuring out how to make it more efficiently
    after the jobs would be otherwise ready to go on the machine. I might
    even build or utilize existing fixturing to cut more than one at a time
    to save time on tool changes.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 18:47:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10o7g1e$2c2ei$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/3/2026 12:43 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:10o799a$29dn0$1@dont-email.me...
    ...
    Remember that weldments are generally pretty brute force rough
    applications compared to machining. Somebody welding up a roll cage and
    tube frame chassis isn't chasing thousandths for the main structure
    usually. Their main measuring tool is probably a tape measure and if
    they are conscientious they use only one tape measure for the whole job.
    If they are chasing thousandths they probably have a lot more
    expensive equipment than you or I, and they are letting a machine do ALL
    the work.
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    ---------------------------
    Having drafted custom industrial equipment for shop fabrication and then assembled it largely with hand tools I'm quite aware of specifying and
    working to appropriate tolerances a senior engineer or machine shop foreman gave me. They could shear and weld large machine frames from 12ga CRS to within 1/16" or better.

    The 48" tubes I mentioned were weldments that needed precisely aligned holes at the ends, to align with the holes in the back of the bucket and the frame on the tractor and pivot freely without binding or bending as the bucket
    rises and lowers. I rigged up reamers on extension shafts to guide from one bucket or frame hole while finishing the other.

    Some parts of my sawmill are brute force, with welding shrinkage jacked out "straight" by eye or hammered to a close fit afterwards but many had to be machined after welding for proper alignment. The tolerance on it and the gantry beam is 3/8" bolts in holes match-drilled 0.375" in steps, and most
    of them start by hand.

    At the other extreme some of my firewood sheds are made from rough logs with joints fitted by chainsaw or hatchet.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 19:08:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10o7gbv$2c6df$1@dont-email.me...

    I alluded to this in my initial write up, but I'm not afraid to spend a
    few hours extra making something if its going to save me 20/30 minutes
    every time I set it up and use it.

    --------------------------------

    I could use a motorized vertical spindle for light indexed spot drilling and milling on the lathe, as some parts are too large for collet block chucks. Though maybe too fast and feeble for hole sawing adapting a Porter-Cable laminate trimmer to the lathe milling vise attachment looks promising. A
    lathe milling vise could become your spindle mount and leadscrew feed.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Mar 3 21:09:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/3/2026 6:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10o7gbv$2c6df$1@dont-email.me...

    I alluded to this in my initial write up, but I'm not afraid to spend a
    few hours extra making something if its going to save me 20/30 minutes
    every time I set it up and use it.

    --------------------------------

    I could use a motorized vertical spindle for light indexed spot drilling
    and milling on the lathe, as some parts are too large for collet block chucks. Though maybe too fast and feeble for hole sawing adapting a Porter-Cable laminate trimmer to the lathe milling vise attachment looks promising. A lathe milling vise could become your spindle mount and leadscrew feed.


    At one time P-C marketed an offset base with the offset spindle
    driven by a cogged drive belt . That type setup could be used to reduce spindle speed . IIRC those trimmers ran at around 22k RPM , way too fast
    for most drilling/spotting operations .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 07:25:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10o87oj$2jeg8$1@dont-email.me...

    IIRC those trimmers ran at around 22k RPM , way too fast for most drilling/spotting operations .
    Snag

    It would be enough slow it with a Variac and spot drill the indexed
    locations with a #3 center drill in the collet for further work on the mill.
    I bored an index disk to fit on the spindle behind the chuck or collet
    thread protector.

    The South Bend lathe milling attachment can apply forces in directions the carriage wasn't meant for. That became obvious when I made a milling vise attachment in night school for my smaller lathe. It has no carriage hold
    downs in front and the rear ones are out of sight. The fix would be bolts
    with two heads.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 11:30:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you need
    is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any half
    decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and improvise
    a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It would only
    be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts loader so
    you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its own... and then there is the fact that my CNC machines are better spent cutting more valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production tables, but it
    could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts you need
    to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree notches you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as the grid holes on
    the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to make, but more pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the alignment pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/simple options can be done for single
    or low use as well, but the less time you spend in design and build the
    more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its killing
    me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in drawer when not
    in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it took
    me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better. Partly,
    of course because I have already figured out some of the problems by
    fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so I am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.-a Maybe its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables.-a He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a price that would
    make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to try
    to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.-a One on
    each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all wear my company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in it.
    -aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing I weld
    stops on the table and grind them off when I am done.-a I have a solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the right size
    annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make the giant t-square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving the square.-a I just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to do it.-a Well, I haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1. You don't have to make a base plate.
    2. You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the tube
    vise without loosing your angle.
    3. The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical bent
    and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4. Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid pattern spacing. To a limited extent even for tables with erratic grid spacing,
    but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole sizes. LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise do
    so, but both are possible. You still have the same accuracy (more or
    less) as the grid itself.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 13:11:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you
    need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any
    half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and
    improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It would only
    be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts loader
    so you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its own... and
    then there is the fact that my CNC machines are better spent cutting
    more valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins
    that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base
    vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid
    are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production
    tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position
    the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts you
    need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree notches
    you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as the grid
    holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to make, but more
    pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the alignment
    pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/simple options can
    be done for single or low use as well, but the less time you spend in
    design and build the more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from
    HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its
    killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the
    table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it took
    me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better.
    Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of the
    problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so I
    am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.-a Maybe
    its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you
    paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested
    in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables.
    He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a
    price that would make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce
    them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to
    try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.-a One
    on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all wear my
    company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in
    it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair
    work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few
    repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing
    I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I am done.-a I have a
    solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the
    right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make the giant
    t-square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving the square.-a I
    just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to do it.-a Well, I
    haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical bent
    and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise do
    so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more or
    less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the other
    leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the angle ,
    and Robert's yer mother's brother .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 14:14:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10o9to5$35djb$1@dont-email.me...

    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1. You don't have to make a base plate.
    2. You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the tube
    vise without loosing your angle.
    3. The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical bent
    and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4. Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid pattern spacing. To a limited extent even for tables with erratic grid spacing,
    but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole sizes. LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise do
    so, but both are possible. You still have the same accuracy (more or
    less) as the grid itself.

    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 12:23:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 12:11 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you
    need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any
    half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and
    improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It would
    only be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts
    loader so you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its
    own... and then there is the fact that my CNC machines are better
    spent cutting more valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins
    that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base
    vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid
    are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production
    tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position
    the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts
    you need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree
    notches you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as
    the grid holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to make, >>> but more pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the
    alignment pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/simple
    options can be done for single or low use as well, but the less time
    you spend in design and build the more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from
    HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its
    killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the
    table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it
    took me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better.
    Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of the
    problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so I
    am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.-a Maybe
    its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you
    paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested
    in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables.
    He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a
    price that would make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce
    them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to
    try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.
    One on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all
    wear my company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in
    it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair
    work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few
    repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing
    I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I am done.-a I have
    a solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the
    right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make the giant t-
    square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving the square.-a I
    just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to do it.-a Well, I
    haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the
    tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical
    bent and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality
    repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift
    solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid
    pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic
    grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole
    sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise
    do so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more
    or less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the other
    leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the angle ,
    and Robert's yer mother's brother .


    Harbor Freight already makes that and its terrible. LOL
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 12:32:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 12:23 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:11 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you
    need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any
    half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and
    improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling
    to get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with
    a manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be
    better than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It
    would only be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a
    parts loader so you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on
    its own... and then there is the fact that my CNC machines are
    better spent cutting more valuable parts in the small quantities I
    would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins
    that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel
    base vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch >>>> grid are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small
    production tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position
    the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts
    you need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree
    notches you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as >>>> the grid holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to
    make, but more pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in
    the alignment pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/
    simple options can be done for single or low use as well, but the
    less time you spend in design and build the more time you spend in use. >>>>
    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from
    HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its
    killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of
    the table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is
    that the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are
    parallel, and the tube when held and the spindle are at the same
    center height. Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all
    talking about fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said
    as long as both center lines are parallel to the mounting surface,
    the height can be shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it
    took me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work
    better. Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of
    the problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so
    I am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.
    Maybe its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much >>>> as you paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be
    interested in making something like that as an accessory to his
    welding tables. He has the reputation to be able to sell something
    like that at a price that would make money, and the knowledge and
    skills to produce them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to
    try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.
    One on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all
    wear my company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL. >>>>
    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in >>>> it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair >>>> work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few
    repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat
    indexing I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I am
    done.-a I have a solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag >>>> drill and the right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make >>>> the giant t- square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving
    the square.-a I just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to
    do it.-a Well, I haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the
    tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical
    bent and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality
    repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a
    makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid
    pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic
    grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog
    hole sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise
    do so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more
    or less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the
    other leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the
    angle , and Robert's yer mother's brother .


    Harbor Freight already makes that and its terrible.-a LOL


    Damn-It Snag! I just visualized a portable version that would work far
    better than the Harbor Fright version. It has one of the same problems
    as the HF notcher. You either have to make part of it telescoping, or
    make part of it really long with a really long spindle sliding assembly.
    I made the HF notcher telescoping so you could move the spindle base position. Of course it has another problem solved by using a commercial welding table as the base plate. You have to make a base plate. The
    base plate is actually more complex (although maybe easier to make
    accurately) than the bent and welded base plate with the HF notcher.

    There is another issue with a portable version that solves all the other problems. It may be too big, heavy, or just awkward for some folks to
    wield effectively. I guess it could be made out of aluminum... LOL
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 12:35:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 12:32 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:23 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:11 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it
    (should) work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization. >>>>> All you need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use
    (almost) any half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or
    prismatic jaws, and improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling
    to get good results I think will take longer than just doing it
    with a manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would >>>>> be better than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)
    It would only be beneficial if you could more fully automate it
    with a parts loader so you could walk away and let it run multiple
    parts on its own... and then there is the fact that my CNC machines >>>>> are better spent cutting more valuable parts in the small
    quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins >>>>> that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel
    base vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2
    inch grid are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small
    production tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping
    spindle mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just >>>>> position the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make
    the cuts you need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30
    degree notches you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as >>>>> good as the grid holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A
    cheaper to make, but more pain to use version is to just have
    threaded holes in the alignment pins and bolt it from the bottom.
    Even more crude/ simple options can be done for single or low use
    as well, but the less time you spend in design and build the more
    time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from >>>>> HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its >>>>> killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of
    the table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is
    that the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are
    parallel, and the tube when held and the spindle are at the same
    center height. Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all
    talking about fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said >>>>> as long as both center lines are parallel to the mounting surface,
    the height can be shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it
    took me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work
    better. Partly, of course because I have already figured out some
    of the problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so >>>>> I am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.
    Maybe its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as
    much as you paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would >>>>> be interested in making something like that as an accessory to his
    welding tables. He has the reputation to be able to sell something
    like that at a price that would make money, and the knowledge and
    skills to produce them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to >>>>> try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.
    One on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all >>>>> wear my company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL. >>>>>
    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes
    in it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is
    repair work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For
    the few repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require
    repeat indexing I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I >>>>> am done.-a I have a solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a >>>>> mag drill and the right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to >>>>> make the giant t- square and grid hole spacers for aligning and
    moving the square.-a I just haven't had the three days I think I'll >>>>> need to do it.-a Well, I haven't had them and not wanted to go
    fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the
    tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical
    bent and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality
    repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a
    makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and
    I have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid
    pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic
    grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog
    hole sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the
    vise do so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy >>>> (more or less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the
    other leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the
    angle , and Robert's yer mother's brother .


    Harbor Freight already makes that and its terrible.-a LOL


    Damn-It Snag!-a I just visualized a portable version that would work far better than the Harbor Fright version.-a It has one of the same problems
    as the HF notcher.-a You either have to make part of it telescoping, or
    make part of it really long with a really long spindle sliding assembly.
    -aI made the HF notcher telescoping so you could move the spindle base position.-a Of course it has another problem solved by using a commercial welding table as the base plate.-a You have to make a base plate.-a The
    base plate is actually more complex (although maybe easier to make accurately) than the bent and welded base plate with the HF notcher.

    There is another issue with a portable version that solves all the other problems.-a It may be too big, heavy, or just awkward for some folks to wield effectively.-a I guess it could be made out of aluminum...-a LOL


    There is one "kinda" advantage for my idea for a portable one. If
    deigned properly it could fold up like a drafting compass for storage.
    Not as compact as the two piece welding table design, but not horrible.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 12:49:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 12:11 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you
    need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any
    half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and
    improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It would
    only be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts
    loader so you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its
    own... and then there is the fact that my CNC machines are better
    spent cutting more valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins
    that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base
    vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid
    are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production
    tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position
    the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts
    you need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree
    notches you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as
    the grid holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to make, >>> but more pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the
    alignment pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/simple
    options can be done for single or low use as well, but the less time
    you spend in design and build the more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from
    HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its
    killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the
    table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it
    took me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better.
    Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of the
    problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so I
    am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.-a Maybe
    its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you
    paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested
    in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables.
    He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a
    price that would make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce
    them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to
    try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.
    One on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all
    wear my company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in
    it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair
    work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few
    repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing
    I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I am done.-a I have
    a solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the
    right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make the giant t-
    square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving the square.-a I
    just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to do it.-a Well, I
    haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the
    tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical
    bent and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality
    repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift
    solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid
    pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic
    grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole
    sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise
    do so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more
    or less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the other
    leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the angle ,
    and Robert's yer mother's brother .


    HEY! YOU DID THAT ON PURPOSE DIDN'T YOU! You took me down a rabbit
    hole away from the original idea on purpose. What the heck was... OH!
    BRIGHT AND SHINY.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 12:52:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 11:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/3/2026 9:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    After modifying the cheap Harbor Freight tube notcher so it (should)
    work okay for the NAU BAJA SAE team, I had a realization.-a All you
    need is a clamp and a spindle.-a In theory I could use (almost) any
    half decent swivel base vise with pipe jaws or prismatic jaws, and
    improvise a spindle.

    Yes, Jim, you could certainly CNC it, but programming and modeling to
    get good results I think will take longer than just doing it with a
    manual purpose built tool.-a (a live tooling CNC lathe would be better
    than a CNC mill, but it would likely cost a lot more.)-a-a It would only
    be beneficial if you could more fully automate it with a parts loader
    so you could walk away and let it run multiple parts on its own... and
    then there is the fact that my CNC machines are better spent cutting
    more valuable parts in the small quantities I would make.

    Here is my idea.-a Make the spindle with two expanding locating pins
    that drop into the standard grid on a welding table.-a Fabricobble
    something similar for a purpose built vise, or just use a swivel base
    vise with prismatic jaws.-a 5/8 (nominal 16mm) holes on a 2 inch grid
    are the most common grid pattern on hobbyist and small production
    tables, but it could be made for any size grid table.

    There would be no need to make a fancy indexable telescoping spindle
    mount like I did for the Harbor Freight monstrosity.-a Just position
    the vise and the spindle where ever you need them to make the cuts you
    need to make.-a If you need to reposition for long 30 degree notches
    you just move the spindle.-a Alignment will remain as good as the grid
    holes on the table.-a It's self indexing.-a A cheaper to make, but more
    pain to use version is to just have threaded holes in the alignment
    pins and bolt it from the bottom.-a Even more crude/simple options can
    be done for single or low use as well, but the less time you spend in
    design and build the more time you spend in use.

    Here is the biggest benefit.-a Because my shop not only suffers from
    HSD (horizontal surface disease) it suffers from ACUTE HSD (yes its
    killing me), the notcher can be tossed in a box on a shelf or in
    drawer when not in use, and it only requires clearing the edge of the
    table when needed.

    The only major requirement that requires some planning really is that
    the vise tube slot and the spindle axis of rotation are parallel, and
    the tube when held and the spindle are at the same center height.
    Roughly by machining standards.-a We are after all talking about
    fabrication work, not machine work.-a That being said as long as both
    center lines are parallel to the mounting surface, the height can be
    shimmed if need be for an improvise solution.

    I think I could build such a notcher in a fraction of the time it took
    me to make parts to make the harbor freight notcher work better.
    Partly, of course because I have already figured out some of the
    problems by fixing the Harbor Freight notcher.

    I doubt I would make and sell this.-a I'm not a machinery dealer, so I
    am putting it out there in the open.-a Maybe its a dumb idea.-a Maybe
    its a great idea.-a I don't know, but its worth atleast as much as you
    paid for it.-a Maybe Jason over at Fireball Tools would be interested
    in making something like that as an accessory to his welding tables.
    He has the reputation to be able to sell something like that at a
    price that would make money, and the knowledge and skills to produce
    them efficiently.

    P.S.-a After picking up the HF notcher my son told me he is going to
    try to get the team to put TWO (of my stickers on their race car.-a One
    on each side.-a LOL.-a Me?-a I'm going to try to get them to all wear my
    company hats anytime they don't have a racing helmet on.-a LOL.

    HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM.-a My welding table doesn't have any holes in
    it. -a-aI don't do a lot of welding and fabrication.-a Most is repair
    work in situ, and often outdoors and out of position.-a For the few
    repeat assemblies I've done on the table that require repeat indexing
    I weld stops on the table and grind them off when I am done.-a I have a
    solution for making the grid pattern. I've got a mag drill and the
    right size annular cutter.-a I've got the steel to make the giant t-
    square and grid hole spacers for aligning and moving the square.-a I
    just haven't had the three days I think I'll need to do it.-a Well, I
    haven't had them and not wanted to go fishing more.



    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1.-a You don't have to make a base plate.
    2.-a You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the tube vise without loosing your angle.
    3.-a The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical bent
    and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4.-a Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality repeatable results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid pattern spacing.-a To a limited extent even for tables with erratic grid spacing, but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole sizes.-a LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise do
    so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more or
    less) as the grid itself.



    Another advantage to using this on a proper welding table would be the
    ease of mocking up jigs and supports. Particularly if the center lines
    were a nice standard size height above the table/base.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
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  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 15:04:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10o9to5$35djb$1@dont-email.me...

    Getting back to the original idea.

    By using a commercial or commercial like welding table as the base:
    1. You don't have to make a base plate.
    2. You can adjust the distance between the cutting spindle and the tube
    vise without loosing your angle.
    3. The base plate (table) is going to be flatter than the typical bent
    and welded base plate that comes with many tube notchers.
    4. Its an out of the box solution that will produce quality repeatable
    results without spend half your day cobbling up a makeshift solution.

    I've spent way to much of my mental budget thinking about this, and I
    have solutions for tables with different dog hole sizes and grid pattern spacing. To a limited extent even for tables with erratic grid spacing,
    but maybe not for tables with radically erratic dog hole sizes. LOL.

    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise do
    so, but both are possible. You still have the same accuracy (more or
    less) as the grid itself.

    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

    -------------------------------

    That makes it simple and very adaptable. Optical benches are similar, plates with grids of tapped holes that make positioning easy and precise.

    Having neither I'd consider the mill table as the base. Plates below the
    sides would align to the tee slot or table edges, coarsely adjustable with parallels as spacers.

    I have a very old horizontal milling machine whose spindle head advances on dovetails, in effect a horizontal boring machine. Unfortunately it has a
    lever feed table meant for production runs after setup, and lacks any dial graduations. It cuts steel much faster than my vertical mill and the vise swivels in a cutout in the table so it could cut angled fishmouths as-is.

    Grizzly sells a somewhat similar machine that might suggest something you could assemble from parts on hand. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-single-spindle-horizontal-boring-machine/g0540?

    A lathe milling attachment could cut angled fishmouths on tubing within its vise capacity. I bought an available one for genuine collectible South Bend 10L accessory completeness but haven't found much justification for it.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 13:27:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 1:04 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    Having neither I'd consider the mill table as the base. Plates below the sides would align to the tee slot or table edges, coarsely adjustable
    with parallels as spacers.

    A mill table or other modestly accurate t-slot table would certainly
    work. You could key the bottom with pins of actual keys and pull parts
    up against the most accurate t-slot edge. Tool design and tool setup
    would both likely be easier using a t-slot table.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 15:30:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10oa2he$2ht0l$1@dont-email.me...

    Another advantage to using this on a proper welding table would be the
    ease of mocking up jigs and supports. Particularly if the center lines
    were a nice standard size height above the table/base.
    Bob La Londe

    -------------------------

    I have an improper welding table, a street drain grate that was cracked
    before installation and discarded. Around here we trade scrap steel and
    broken tools, which is how I got and fixed the rock drill. I ground the
    grate top flatter by testing and marking with a straightedge. By some definitions it's portable, though so is an upright piano because it has handles.

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  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Mar 4 18:24:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 3/4/2026 1:49 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:11 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2026 12:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:


    Making the spindle fit multiple tables is easier than making the vise
    do so, but both are possible.-a You still have the same accuracy (more
    or less) as the grid itself.



    How about a portable version . The spindle is on a pivot with the
    other leg a pipe clamp . Clamp the device to the pipe/tube , set the
    angle , and Robert's yer mother's brother .


    HEY!-a YOU DID THAT ON PURPOSE DIDN'T YOU!-a You took me down a rabbit
    hole away from the original idea on purpose.-a What the heck was... OH! BRIGHT AND SHINY.


    I'm just jealous because I haven't got room for a welding table . Yet
    , I'm fixin' to toss a bunch of junk so I can enclose the other half of
    the carport/shop .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
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  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Mar 5 07:51:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10oaies$3cp5c$1@dont-email.me...

    I'm just jealous because I haven't got room for a welding table . Yet
    , I'm fixin' to toss a bunch of junk so I can enclose the other half of
    the carport/shop .
    Snag
    -------------------------------

    I traded away a decent shop-made welding table to a friend setting up a business and in return got access to use it with his gear plus a cruder one made from 1/4" plate with 3" channel legs welded on, which took up too much space. I solved that by cutting the legs short enough to bolt on PT 2X4 legs beveled to securely wedge into the channel, and fixed axle wheels on one
    edge to move the now narrow table into a shed between the posts and outer
    tarp where it can lean upright.

    When I need a temporary mount for some bench tool I drill it on the edge of this table. It's rigid and heavy enough for a tire changer.

    I've read of steel tube airplanes being welded directly on a plywood jig.
    The wood fire won't spread or stay aflame and smoldering can be extinguished with a spray bottle. I made arc shielding curtains for outdoors from cotton cloth soaked in alum & borax solution, an old theatre formula. A test strip hung vertically charred and then went out after the torch was removed.

    Firebrick on plywood works well and gives clamping clearance, and it can be stacked to support uprights. The firebricks happen to fit upright for
    storage under my Jotul 118 clone woodstove. MIG spatter on the wood only
    chars it.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Mar 5 14:42:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:10obu76$3q1cg$1@dont-email.me...
    ...a cruder one [welding table]
    made from 1/4" plate with 3" channel legs welded on, which took up too much space. I solved that by cutting the legs short enough to bolt on PT 2X4 legs beveled to securely wedge into the channel, and fixed axle wheels on one
    edge to move the now narrow table into a shed between the posts and outer
    tarp where it can lean upright.
    ------------------------

    It's heavy and awkward to pick up, but can be assembled by leaning it
    against a post and bolting on the upper legs, then rolling it onto them to install the others. PT 2x4s are SYP (southern yellow pine) which is stronger than untreated SPF (spruce,pine,fir) lumber. Rolling it edgewise lifts only half the weight.

    https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/spf-vs-syp.406369/
    "SPF has about half the strength of SYP, or so said my architect and engineer."

    I could fix up my sewer grate table the same way if I didn't have a platform lift with off pavement wheels to raise heavy stuff to convenient height.

    The hydraulic lift table HF sells has folding support legs and could double
    as a TV or beer fridge table when not used for moving. Its maximum height of 28.5" may not be enough for Bob's chuck and milling vise needs.

    I ordered this to lift Segways to lab bench height for testing. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/steel-construction-lite-load-li-w-operation-1?
    The winch won't droop but its ratchet is loud. I chose it to avoid oil on
    the antistatic tile floor. It would easily raise to height but might not
    roll close enough for a sliding transfer. I cut wood blocks to hold a heavy chuck in line with the spindle, they might be extended to roll it off the platform.

    The "broken" platform lift I bought for $10 at auction lifts with a lever chain hoist which is handier for a welding positioner since I can operate it from any side while the uprights support the curtains.

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