• There no such thing as a perfectly true bicycle wheel with all same side tensions the same.

    From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 18:05:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech


    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 17:25:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 19:19:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 19:16:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 06:30:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 08:09:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 14:16:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week.
    I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too
    lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels.
    At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 13:33:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week.
    I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too
    lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels.
    At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs? We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 15:50:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 13:33:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still >>>>>> range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around >>>>>> and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week.
    I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too
    lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free
    shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels.
    At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs? We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.

    I had originally planned on doing that because the hubs are still
    good. I'd replaced the bearings in them twice and I did buy one new
    wheel to use while I rebuilt them.

    I discovered an issue about getting the tension checking device in
    between the shorter spokes to check the underneath spokes and even
    checking the top spokes around the bend seemed problematic.

    I thought maybe to build the wheels without checking tension, but
    unsure if it would work, I hesitated on destroying my old wheels and
    started looking for all new stuff to experiment with.

    When I couldn't even find hubs, I called the whole thing off and
    bought another complete wheel.

    If you build twenty inch wheels, I'm curious how you check tension.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 19:52:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still >>>>>> range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around >>>>>> and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week.
    I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too
    lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free
    shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels.
    At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs? We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.


    That for myself seems to depend on the usecase the Gravel bike IrCOve cracked
    a number of rims, IrCOm hoping the new bike with substantially larger volume tyres (the older one was really All road) will be more like the MTB which
    is kind on the the wheels.

    The old commute bike IrCOve never had a rim fail, itrCOs a old 26in MTB with wide utility tyres, but IrCOve had wheels rended uneconomic to repair with
    hub failures clearly beyond just bearings or even free hub bodies!

    The roadie which is mostly but not entirely a commuter, while 28mm is much wider than road bikes of old, itrCOs still a fairly rough ride, which
    possibly will in time crack a rim, even with uk generally soggy conditions
    the rim brakes arenrCOt a issue as well I donrCOt need to brake often, with only 6 locations that IrCOll need to come to stop or brake ie either junction or shared bridge/underpass that requires one to brake, none with any force.

    Essentially I donrCOt expect to wear though rims particularly quickly, more likely the very cheap OEM wheels will crack or fail another way.

    Roger Merriman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 15:04:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/15/2026 2:50 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 13:33:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still >>>>>>> range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around >>>>>>> and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week.
    I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too
    lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free
    shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels.
    At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs? We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.

    I had originally planned on doing that because the hubs are still
    good. I'd replaced the bearings in them twice and I did buy one new
    wheel to use while I rebuilt them.

    I discovered an issue about getting the tension checking device in
    between the shorter spokes to check the underneath spokes and even
    checking the top spokes around the bend seemed problematic.

    I thought maybe to build the wheels without checking tension, but
    unsure if it would work, I hesitated on destroying my old wheels and
    started looking for all new stuff to experiment with.

    When I couldn't even find hubs, I called the whole thing off and
    bought another complete wheel.

    If you build twenty inch wheels, I'm curious how you check tension.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Some yes, some no.
    Sometimes you just need to guesstimate where a tool does not
    fit.

    https://softsolder.com/2018/08/03/park-spoke-tension-meter-vs-20-inch-wheel-spokes/
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Aug 15 16:55:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Zephyr trike On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 15:04:54 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 2:50 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 13:33:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension >>>>>>>>> while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much. >>>>>>>>>
    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will >>>>>>>>> unwind. On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still >>>>>>>> range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around >>>>>>>> and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they >>>>>> cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand >>>>>> out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week. >>>> I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too >>>> lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free >>>> shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement. Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels. >>>> At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs? We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.

    I had originally planned on doing that because the hubs are still
    good. I'd replaced the bearings in them twice and I did buy one new
    wheel to use while I rebuilt them.

    I discovered an issue about getting the tension checking device in
    between the shorter spokes to check the underneath spokes and even
    checking the top spokes around the bend seemed problematic.

    I thought maybe to build the wheels without checking tension, but
    unsure if it would work, I hesitated on destroying my old wheels and
    started looking for all new stuff to experiment with.

    When I couldn't even find hubs, I called the whole thing off and
    bought another complete wheel.

    If you build twenty inch wheels, I'm curious how you check tension.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Some yes, some no.
    Sometimes you just need to guesstimate where a tool does not
    fit.

    https://softsolder.com/2018/08/03/park-spoke-tension-meter-vs-20-inch-wheel-spokes/

    Given my inexperience, I think I made the wisest choice regarding the
    20 inch wheels. Wheel lacing was on my bucket list and now that I've
    done the second one to prove the first one wasn't just pure luck, I
    will forever abandon my thoughts of having a career in wheel lacing.

    I expect my progeny will someday go through my tool boxes and storage containers and wonder "What the hell is this?" I'll leave a note that
    refers them to you.

    I'll probably stop in to see you in October. I think I owe you a
    lunch.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 09:06:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/15/2026 4:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 2:50 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 13:33:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 1:16 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
    wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the >>>>>>>>>> sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as >>>>>>>>>> they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it >>>>>>>>>> just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was already >>>>>>>>>> pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension >>>>>>>>> while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much. >>>>>>>>>
    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will >>>>>>>>> unwind.-a On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still >>>>>>>> range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around >>>>>>>> and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 >>>>>>>> and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter
    Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's
    going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they >>>>>> cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand >>>>>> out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I won't have a decent tire to put on it until sometime late next week. >>>> I'm going to want a fresh new tire for the shiny new wheel and I'm too >>>> lazy to take the mostly worn out tire and the cassette off the old
    scruffed-up wheel to test the new wheel and then put the tire back on
    the old wheel that will get hung up beside a pair of old scruffed-up
    front 20 inch wheels for emergency use.

    The Schwalbe web site is not working and the few places that had a
    Schwalbe Green Marathon 40-559 wanted $25 to ship the $50 tire. I
    finally found one last night at online Walmart of all places with free >>>> shipping.

    I did bend the spokes around each other with my fingers and got a
    little improvement.-a Now, according to Park Tools chart for steel
    2.0MM spokes, the right side tensions are all between 120 kgf and 135
    kgf and the left side has one at 70 kgf two at 86 kgf and the rest
    right around 77 kgf.

    I'll check it again after I ride.

    FWIW, I never got around to building the two front 20" wheels because
    I couldn't find any compatible hubs. I ended up buying two new wheels. >>>> At 82 years old, I suspect my wheel building days are over.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Generally, hubs far outlast rims. Any reason you don't just
    build new spokes and rims on your hubs?-a We do a steady
    stream of those builds here.

    I had originally planned on doing that because the hubs are still
    good. I'd replaced the bearings in them twice and I did buy one new
    wheel to use while I rebuilt them.

    I discovered an issue about getting the tension checking device in
    between the shorter spokes to check the underneath spokes and even
    checking the top spokes around the bend seemed problematic.

    I thought maybe to build the wheels without checking tension, but
    unsure if it would work, I hesitated on destroying my old wheels and
    started looking for all new stuff to experiment with.

    When I couldn't even find hubs, I called the whole thing off and
    bought another complete wheel.

    If you build twenty inch wheels, I'm curious how you check tension.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Some yes, some no.
    Sometimes you just need to guesstimate where a tool does not fit.

    https://softsolder.com/2018/08/03/park-spoke-tension-meter-vs-20-inch- wheel-spokes/


    Then there's this.... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.mega_mouse.spoke_tensioner_3 --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ted Heise@theise@panix.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 15:10:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more forcefully.

    +1

    I've always been very forceful with the stress relieving step.


    My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    I miss Sheldon. He was one of a kind and I liked him hugely.

    I'm havng trouble finding it now, but at one point I commented on
    a cute .sig of his that riffed on The Farmer and the Cowman (from
    Okalahoma!). He had included a verse on only one of the warring
    factions (runners and cyclists as I recall), and I teased him he
    was biased. He responded in his usual engaging fashion, saying if
    I came up with the other verse he would use it. I did, and he did.

    I believe he used it on rbt a time or two, wish I could find it.
    --
    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> Gretna, NE, USA
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 11:59:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/15/2026 8:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they were >>>>>> out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty darn >>>>>> good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind.-a On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress relief technique.


    I guess I have always done it wrong. I build a wheel then start grabbing
    pairs of spokes and pulling on them like mad. I thought that did the
    stress relief but I guess not. I like to build wheels but it is far too
    cheap to just buy new wheels and then check and touch them up.
    --
    Deacon Mark
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 12:21:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/16/2026 11:59 AM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 8:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi
    <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi
    <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it
    and the sprocket
    tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as
    long as they were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts
    to get it just a
    little better didn't get it any better and it was
    already pretty darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off
    the bike and
    checked it and it was as good as when I built it,
    maybe a little
    better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good
    spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even
    tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster
    job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while
    riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that
    much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads
    form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion
    which will
    unwind.-a On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes
    firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the
    tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all
    the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107
    to 135 and the
    left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension
    Meter Conversion
    Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter.
    It's going to
    have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other
    where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the
    truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress
    relief technique.


    I guess I have always done it wrong. I build a wheel then
    start grabbing pairs of spokes and pulling on them like mad.
    I thought that did the stress relief but I guess not. I like
    to build wheels but it is far too cheap to just buy new
    wheels and then check and touch them up.


    You did the right thing. We find forcefully squeezing pairs
    of spokes to be effective.

    If you step back from the problem, we're trying to emulate
    the stress relief of actual riding, but we want to complete
    that process to stabilize the wheel before giving it to the
    customer.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 13:52:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 15:10:59 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more forcefully.

    +1

    I've always been very forceful with the stress relieving step.


    My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    I miss Sheldon. He was one of a kind and I liked him hugely.

    I'm havng trouble finding it now, but at one point I commented on
    a cute .sig of his that riffed on The Farmer and the Cowman (from >Okalahoma!). He had included a verse on only one of the warring
    factions (runners and cyclists as I recall), and I teased him he
    was biased. He responded in his usual engaging fashion, saying if
    I came up with the other verse he would use it. I did, and he did.

    I believe he used it on rbt a time or two, wish I could find it.

    Sheldon Brown was gone before I got involved enough in bikes to know
    about him, but I think I would have liked him. He seemed like a guy
    who enjoyed working on bicycles as much as, or perhaps more than
    riding them. I can relate to that.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 16:22:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/16/2026 12:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 15:10:59 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more forcefully.

    +1

    I've always been very forceful with the stress relieving step.


    My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    I miss Sheldon. He was one of a kind and I liked him hugely.

    I'm havng trouble finding it now, but at one point I commented on
    a cute .sig of his that riffed on The Farmer and the Cowman (from
    Okalahoma!). He had included a verse on only one of the warring
    factions (runners and cyclists as I recall), and I teased him he
    was biased. He responded in his usual engaging fashion, saying if
    I came up with the other verse he would use it. I did, and he did.

    I believe he used it on rbt a time or two, wish I could find it.

    Sheldon Brown was gone before I got involved enough in bikes to know
    about him, but I think I would have liked him. He seemed like a guy
    who enjoyed working on bicycles as much as, or perhaps more than
    riding them. I can relate to that.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    I read up on him and was doing bikes right about when he had died. The interesting thing to me was he was a non-believer. He was an atheist and
    that to me has significance as a deacon. He had not faith in a higher power.....whatever that power or yours happens to be, but he had enough
    faith to say there is no God. For some no God could just mean that they
    don't believe in any traditional religion but understand there is a
    higher power.

    After reading that and all the stuff about him I sort at a loss. From
    all accounts a fantastic person with many talents and friends. That is
    not surprising being an atheist has nothing to do with that as such. But
    for myself taking his position on what happens after this earthly life
    just is wild in some ways.
    --
    Deacon Mark
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Aug 16 17:56:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/16/2026 12:59 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 8:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 8/15/2026 5:30 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 19:16:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/14/2026 6:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:25:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
    On 8/14/2026 5:05 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    OK, I finally folded up the truing stand and put it and the sprocket >>>>>>> tension device away. I couldn't leave them alone as long as they >>>>>>> were
    out where I could see em. The last several attempts to get it just a >>>>>>> little better didn't get it any better and it was already pretty >>>>>>> darn
    good.

    I took the rear wheel I built several years ago off the bike and >>>>>>> checked it and it was as good as when I built it, maybe a little >>>>>>> better.

    Can riding the bike even out the tensions?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    With a premium rim, as you have, reasonably good spokes and
    nipples plus lubricated threads, you can get to even tension
    while both round and in-plane within a half millimeter.

    If you can settle for a larger variance, it's a faster job
    For your own rear wheel (you don't look at it while riding)
    with no rim brake, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

    To your question, spokes do settle in as the heads form to
    the hubshell under tension, nipples seat into the rim,
    unlubricated nipples may leave a spoke in torsion which will
    unwind.-a On light rims with high pressure tires, spoke
    tension will measurably decrease just by airing the tire.

    So, yes, a freshly built wheel has a dynamic set of spoke
    tensions. That's why good wheelbuilders flex spokes firmly,
    some even pressing the rim laterally (this was common
    practice when I was young but few do that now) and then
    repeat the tension and truing process so everything is
    stable when the customer accepts the wheel.

    I've got it almost perfectly true both ways, but the tensions still
    range a bit. I've been grabbing a pair of spokes all the way around
    and squeezing regularly. The right side ranges from 107 to 135 and the >>>>> left side is 70 to 96 according to Park Tools Tension Meter Conversion >>>>> Table. Right side 24-26, left side 20-23 on the meter. It's going to >>>>> have to be good enough.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    If that concerns you, either put some miles on it and check
    later, or do that same spoke relief technique more
    forcefully. My old friend Sheldon Brown used a lever.

    Engineering principles and also practical application:

    https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    more explanation:
    https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

    I never thought of bending the spokes around each other where they
    cross. I'll give that a try.. I might have to drag the truing stand
    out again...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Or just put some miles on it. That's an effective stress relief
    technique.


    I guess I have always done it wrong. I build a wheel then start grabbing pairs of spokes and pulling on them like mad. I thought that did the
    stress relief but I guess not.

    That's the way I've always done it, and the way it was taught to me by
    the owner of the 1st shop I wrenched at in 1986. I've never had a wheel
    I built or serviced/trued fold up, at least none that anyone ever told
    me about, and I assume if it was one of those customers over that period
    of 15 years and three different shops, I'd think I would have heard
    about it.


    I like to build wheels but it is far too
    cheap to just buy new wheels and then check and touch them up.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2