• E "bike" review

    From Radey Shouman@shouman@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech


    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.
    --

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Aug 13 20:21:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.
    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three abreast and not allowing people to pass them.
    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Aug 13 15:38:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The
    reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.




    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three abreast and not allowing people to pass them.

    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Aug 13 22:44:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    ItrCOs why donrCOt get such things here, it wouldnrCOt be legal, and something that advertises its illegality so plainly wouldnrCOt last terribly long!

    Roger Merriman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rolf Mantel@news@hartig-mantel.de to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 10:37:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The
    reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of
    a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 08:17:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.




    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three abreast and not allowing people to pass them.

    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz along on
    a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway at 20/25MPH or
    less without doing it for the exercise and physical exertion. As for
    me, if I'm ever going to go back to riding a motorcycle, it's going to
    be one that I can break the speed limit on the interstates with.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 08:01:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/14/2026 7:17 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.




    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three abreast and not allowing people to pass them.

    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz along on
    a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway at 20/25MPH or
    less without doing it for the exercise and physical exertion. As for
    me, if I'm ever going to go back to riding a motorcycle, it's going to
    be one that I can break the speed limit on the interstates with.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    I'm with you, or as the apocryphal koan goes, "I ride my
    bike to ride my bike."

    When I feel the need for speed, I have two very fast cars.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 14:40:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but
    not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of
    a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.


    IrCOd suggest itrCOs done with the full knowledge and expectance that folks will use its full output. Ie the companies know and adding features so
    folks can break or ignore the laws.

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ted Heise@theise@panix.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 15:23:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 08:17:07 -0400,
    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    Yes, thanks.


    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called
    ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial,
    usable as footpegs but not really for propelling the thing.
    Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse for use of facilities
    restricted to bicycles.

    Ugh. Just what I hate most.

    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there
    was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered
    the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the
    trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not
    bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy.
    This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three
    abreast and not allowing people to pass them.


    Typical.


    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to
    dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    LOL


    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz
    along on a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway
    at 20/25MPH or less without doing it for the exercise and
    physical exertion.

    Not that I condone their behavior in any way, but as far as the
    attraction goes I often tell people that the typical speed of a
    bike is perfect for viewing your surroundings. Walking (or even
    running) the scenery changes *very* slowly, and in a motor vehicle
    at highway speeds it changes so fast as to hinder appreciating it
    in depth. At cycling speeds the rate of change in scenery is just
    right.
    --
    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> Gretna, NE, USA
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 15:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.




    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a large
    group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike wide trail
    and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking nothing about
    it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even the slightest
    inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times with e-bikes riding
    three abreast and not allowing people to pass them.

    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz along on
    a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway at 20/25MPH or
    less without doing it for the exercise and physical exertion. As for
    me, if I'm ever going to go back to riding a motorcycle, it's going to
    be one that I can break the speed limit on the interstates with.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    Some folks make the argument they need to keep up with traffic to be safe, while yes big fast roads can feel less comfortable to ride at 11/15mph vs 15/25mph the argument as ever is to have what is a moped in all but name,
    and frankly are far better ways of getting more utility riding and walking.

    For some itrCOs not about the effort or even as a sport but just to get out there, but itrCOs very weak argument that such folks need throttles, or need
    to have assistance beyond 15mph which is more or less a sweet spot in my experience.

    See folks on Lime and other Dockless E bikes having a potter thought the
    London parks or on way out for night out, ie party dress and high heels and
    so on, get others just loop the same parks, which has never appealed to me,
    but some like it as a easy consistence way to do training.

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Radey Shouman@shouman@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 14:26:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:

    Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between
    vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different
    requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of
    a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.


    IrCOd suggest itrCOs done with the full knowledge and expectance that folks will use its full output. Ie the companies know and adding features so
    folks can break or ignore the laws.

    I can imagine an insurance company attorney making just that point, to
    the benefit of his client and the detriment of anyone injured by such a machine.
    --

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Radey Shouman@shouman@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 14:33:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> writes:

    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.




    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there was a
    large group of ebike riders, They completely covered the 3 bike
    wide trail and were sitting still blocking the trail and thinking
    nothing about it. These people are not bicyclists and haven't even
    the slightest inkling of curtesy. This has happened several times
    with e-bikes riding three abreast and not allowing people to pass
    them.

    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz along on
    a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway at 20/25MPH or
    less without doing it for the exercise and physical exertion. As for
    me, if I'm ever going to go back to riding a motorcycle, it's going to
    be one that I can break the speed limit on the interstates with.

    I see quite a few kids who are almost surely too young to be licensed
    drivers zooming along the local bike paths on electric vehicles. Some
    are reasonably cautious, some are completely irresponsible. Might not
    be legal, but I have seen a few almost surely exceeding 30 m/hr, on paths frequented by toddlers and distracted dog walkers.
    --

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Radey Shouman@shouman@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 14:47:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> writes:

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 08:17:07 -0400,
    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    Yes, thanks.


    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called
    ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial,
    usable as footpegs but not really for propelling the thing.
    Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse for use of facilities
    restricted to bicycles.

    Ugh. Just what I hate most.

    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there
    was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered
    the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the
    trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not
    bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy.
    This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three
    abreast and not allowing people to pass them.


    Typical.


    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to
    dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    LOL


    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz
    along on a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway
    at 20/25MPH or less without doing it for the exercise and
    physical exertion.

    Not that I condone their behavior in any way, but as far as the
    attraction goes I often tell people that the typical speed of a
    bike is perfect for viewing your surroundings. Walking (or even
    running) the scenery changes *very* slowly, and in a motor vehicle
    at highway speeds it changes so fast as to hinder appreciating it
    in depth. At cycling speeds the rate of change in scenery is just
    right.

    That seems a bit narrow minded to me. Every mode of transport gives a different view of the way, and none is better in every respect. I see
    things walking that I would never notice cycling. For example I noticed
    a stand of ripening hazelnuts the other day for the first time, on a
    walk where I usually cycle.

    Cycling does give one a real appreciation for topography. Hills that are
    barely noticable afoot loom large on a bike. They might look even
    larger if one were pushing a handcart.

    Even traveling by airliner gives a view unavailable any other way, if
    one favors the window seats.

    I have never gone any substantial distance on a horse, but I imagine the impression one gets is again different from walking, or cycling, or
    driving a car. Overhead branches, shouty dogs, and tasty grass would
    probably become much more noticeable, but I'm sure there are many things
    I can't imagine.
    --

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 14:02:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/14/2026 1:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
    Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:

    Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta
    shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between >>> vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different
    requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of >>> a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.


    IrCOd suggest itrCOs done with the full knowledge and expectance that folks >> will use its full output. Ie the companies know and adding features so
    folks can break or ignore the laws.

    I can imagine an insurance company attorney making just that point, to
    the benefit of his client and the detriment of anyone injured by such a machine.

    uh, sorta kinda maybe.

    The attorneys at insurance firms work for the firm, not the
    insured and certainly not the plaintiff.

    Despite widespread mistaken belief, insurance companies pay
    for losses as delimited in the contract (which many people
    do not read, of course). Period. It's a contract, not a
    judgement or opinion. Their attorneys know every term,
    every phrase, every space and comma in the documents and all
    the prior disputes and resolutions.

    It's very likely that an importer would be denied insurance
    coverage when his product was found to violate US laws.
    There's usually such a clause in their insurance contract.

    Ditto for the distributor/retailer when selling proscribed
    products in violation of State Statutes. I certainly do not
    carry insurance to cover illegal acts (even if such exists!)
    and so I do try to ensure my products conform to the Statutes.

    A wrinkle is that much regulation applies to use, not the
    thing itself. For example when retailers sell clearly marked
    "off road vehicles" (not legal for public road use) to
    miscreants in New York:

    https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2025/06/illegal-dirt-bikes-in-nyc-200-seized-vehicles-crushed-in-staten-island-demolition.html

    the violation of 'operation on public roads' was by the
    operator or owner, not the importer or distributor or
    retailer so their insurance doesn't apply at all.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Radey Shouman@shouman@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 16:24:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

    On 8/14/2026 1:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
    Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:

    Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The >>>>>> reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse >>>>>> for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and >>>>>> not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta >>>>>> shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between >>>> vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different
    requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of >>>> a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.


    IrCOd suggest itrCOs done with the full knowledge and expectance that folks >>> will use its full output. Ie the companies know and adding features so
    folks can break or ignore the laws.
    I can imagine an insurance company attorney making just that point,
    to
    the benefit of his client and the detriment of anyone injured by such a
    machine.

    uh, sorta kinda maybe.

    The attorneys at insurance firms work for the firm, not the insured
    and certainly not the plaintiff.

    Of course. Their clients benefit by not paying so much.

    Despite widespread mistaken belief, insurance companies pay for losses
    as delimited in the contract (which many people do not read, of
    course). Period. It's a contract, not a judgement or opinion. Their attorneys know every term, every phrase, every space and comma in the documents and all the prior disputes and resolutions.

    It's very likely that an importer would be denied insurance coverage
    when his product was found to violate US laws. There's usually such a
    clause in their insurance contract.

    Ditto for the distributor/retailer when selling proscribed products in violation of State Statutes. I certainly do not carry insurance to
    cover illegal acts (even if such exists!) and so I do try to ensure my products conform to the Statutes.

    A wrinkle is that much regulation applies to use, not the thing
    itself. For example when retailers sell clearly marked "off road
    vehicles" (not legal for public road use) to miscreants in New York:

    https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2025/06/illegal-dirt-bikes-in-nyc-200-seized-vehicles-crushed-in-staten-island-demolition.html

    the violation of 'operation on public roads' was by the operator or
    owner, not the importer or distributor or retailer so their insurance
    doesn't apply at all.

    I was guessing that sort of reasoning might apply to operators of the
    e-scooter in question. By changing vehicle class in a not quite legal
    way (even thought that is just too easy) they might invalidate any
    insurance that might ordinarily cover them, like motor vehicle,
    homeowner, or other liability insurance.
    --

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 15:39:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 8/14/2026 3:24 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

    On 8/14/2026 1:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
    Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:

    Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
    Am 14.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://tinyurl.com/4pm5wj6x
    OR

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called ebike. The
    reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial, usable as footpegs but >>>>>>> not really for propelling the thing. Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse
    for use of facilities restricted to bicycles.

    The reviewer seems conflicted: it's plainly a heavy electric scooter and
    not a bicycle, but one has to say nice things because shills gotta >>>>>>> shill. The comments that I read seem much less enthusiastic.


    Yup itrCOs a a scooter as to be fair the reviewer noted, itrCOs what you get as
    a product of the legislation as Berm peak on that YouTube noted!

    I am extremely surprised by the idea of soft-switching a vehicle between >>>>> vehicle classes. Usually, different vehicle classes have different
    requirements concerning insurance and licensing. The legal top speed of >>>>> a vehicle is defined as 'maximum speed the vehicle can go', not as
    'maximum speed for a given setting'.


    IrCOd suggest itrCOs done with the full knowledge and expectance that folks
    will use its full output. Ie the companies know and adding features so >>>> folks can break or ignore the laws.
    I can imagine an insurance company attorney making just that point,
    to
    the benefit of his client and the detriment of anyone injured by such a
    machine.

    uh, sorta kinda maybe.

    The attorneys at insurance firms work for the firm, not the insured
    and certainly not the plaintiff.

    Of course. Their clients benefit by not paying so much.

    Despite widespread mistaken belief, insurance companies pay for losses
    as delimited in the contract (which many people do not read, of
    course). Period. It's a contract, not a judgement or opinion. Their
    attorneys know every term, every phrase, every space and comma in the
    documents and all the prior disputes and resolutions.

    It's very likely that an importer would be denied insurance coverage
    when his product was found to violate US laws. There's usually such a
    clause in their insurance contract.

    Ditto for the distributor/retailer when selling proscribed products in
    violation of State Statutes. I certainly do not carry insurance to
    cover illegal acts (even if such exists!) and so I do try to ensure my
    products conform to the Statutes.

    A wrinkle is that much regulation applies to use, not the thing
    itself. For example when retailers sell clearly marked "off road
    vehicles" (not legal for public road use) to miscreants in New York:

    https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2025/06/illegal-dirt-bikes-in-nyc-200-seized-vehicles-crushed-in-staten-island-demolition.html

    the violation of 'operation on public roads' was by the operator or
    owner, not the importer or distributor or retailer so their insurance
    doesn't apply at all.

    I was guessing that sort of reasoning might apply to operators of the e-scooter in question. By changing vehicle class in a not quite legal
    way (even thought that is just too easy) they might invalidate any
    insurance that might ordinarily cover them, like motor vehicle,
    homeowner, or other liability insurance.


    You're absolutely right on that.

    Same as homeowner insurance (which covers normal use of most
    possessions like ladders) leaves one uncovered for an
    offroad vehicle used on public roads.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Aug 14 17:39:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 14:47:18 -0400, Radey Shouman
    <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> writes:

    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 08:17:07 -0400,
    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:38:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 3:21 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Aug 13 15:39:45 2026 Radey Shouman wrote:

    This might be of interest:

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/08/pushing-the-limits-infinite-machines-olto-is-barely-a-bicycle/

    Yes, thanks.


    It is a review in the magazine _Ars_Technica_ of a so-called
    ebike. The reviewer does say that the pedals are vestigial,
    usable as footpegs but not really for propelling the thing.
    Also useful, perhaps, as an excuse for use of facilities
    restricted to bicycles.

    Ugh. Just what I hate most.

    I'll tell you about e-bike riders. On a return today there
    was a large group of ebike riders, They completely covered
    the 3 bike wide trail and were sitting still blocking the
    trail and thinking nothing about it. These people are not
    bicyclists and haven't even the slightest inkling of curtesy.
    This has happened several times with e-bikes riding three
    abreast and not allowing people to pass them.


    Typical.


    I can only imagine that they advertise e-bikes strictly to
    dumbshits.

    "advertise ... to dumbshits."

    Good marketing plan! Those folks are a majority!

    LOL


    It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to putz
    along on a bike trail or bike lane or even a street or highway
    at 20/25MPH or less without doing it for the exercise and
    physical exertion.

    Not that I condone their behavior in any way, but as far as the
    attraction goes I often tell people that the typical speed of a
    bike is perfect for viewing your surroundings. Walking (or even
    running) the scenery changes *very* slowly, and in a motor vehicle
    at highway speeds it changes so fast as to hinder appreciating it
    in depth. At cycling speeds the rate of change in scenery is just
    right.

    That seems a bit narrow minded to me. Every mode of transport gives a >different view of the way, and none is better in every respect. I see
    things walking that I would never notice cycling. For example I noticed
    a stand of ripening hazelnuts the other day for the first time, on a
    walk where I usually cycle.

    Cycling does give one a real appreciation for topography. Hills that are >barely noticable afoot loom large on a bike. They might look even
    larger if one were pushing a handcart.

    Even traveling by airliner gives a view unavailable any other way, if
    one favors the window seats.

    I have never gone any substantial distance on a horse, but I imagine the >impression one gets is again different from walking, or cycling, or
    driving a car. Overhead branches, shouty dogs, and tasty grass would >probably become much more noticeable, but I'm sure there are many things
    I can't imagine.

    Vehicles with loud engine noise and oh, yes, bicycle riders.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2