17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at
least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts. Though the speeds are generally lower, such bikes are wow thatrCOs quick on fire road climbs but elsewhere seem to be mostly just a MTB in my experience, even on the
uphills, if itrCOs not just a fire road, the motor will not do much on the technical bits, thatrCOs where rider skill/bike geometry/suspension/tyre choice matter. Let alone downhill where the extra mass isnrCOt particularly useful.
Roger Merriman
On 7/29/2026 4:44 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:Ebike need serious regulation at least in some instances they are no different than a motorcycle. A regular bike human powered in my book is actully quite a different animal.
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds
which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if
delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at
least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts. Though the speeds are >> generally lower, such bikes are wow thatrCOs quick on fire road climbs but >> elsewhere seem to be mostly just a MTB in my experience, even on the
uphills, if itrCOs not just a fire road, the motor will not do much on the >> technical bits, thatrCOs where rider skill/bike geometry/suspension/tyre
choice matter. Let alone downhill where the extra mass isnrCOt particularly >> useful.
Roger Merriman
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great
interest to me.
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:57:09 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great
interest to me.
Oh, and I should have added that the article designating it as "an
illegal e-moto" raised an eyebrow. My thought was it *could* have
been legal if it had been registered and licensed (ridden by a
licensed operator, of course). I STFW about that concept and
learned the vehicle in question does not meet some national
standards that are necesary to license a moto, so it was indeed
implicitly illegal.
On 7/31/2026 8:37 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:57:09 -0000 (UTC),
-a-a Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
-a On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
-a-a-a AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
-a 17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
-a https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-
killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
-a Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great
-a interest to me.
Oh, and I should have added that the article designating
it as "an
illegal e-moto" raised an eyebrow.-a My thought was it
*could* have
been legal if it had been registered and licensed (ridden
by a
licensed operator, of course).-a I STFW about that concept and
learned the vehicle in question does not meet some national
standards that are necesary to license a moto, so it was
indeed
implicitly illegal.
Although there are Federal guidelines and some EPA
regulation, actual vehicle requirements, definitions,
limitations etc are in State statutes.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great interest
to me.
Am Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:57:09 -0000 (UTC) schrieb Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great interest
to me.
Cycle lanes right in the middle of the road are madness. They
make absolutely no sense and are even worse than normal cycle
lanes, regardless of whether the bike in question is legal or
not.
On 7/31/2026 9:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/31/2026 8:37 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:57:09 -0000 (UTC),
-a-a Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
-a On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:06:43 -0500,
-a-a-a AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
-a 17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
-a https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-
killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
-a Thanks for posting these links, it's a subject of great
-a interest to me.
Oh, and I should have added that the article designating
it as "an
illegal e-moto" raised an eyebrow.-a My thought was it
*could* have
been legal if it had been registered and licensed (ridden
by a
licensed operator, of course).-a I STFW about that concept and
learned the vehicle in question does not meet some national
standards that are necesary to license a moto, so it was
indeed
implicitly illegal.
Although there are Federal guidelines and some EPA
regulation, actual vehicle requirements, definitions,
limitations etc are in State statutes.
p.s. UK cyclingindustry.news/met-police-set-new-record-and-seize-2500-illegal-ebikes-and-escooters
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds >which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if >delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at
least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts.
Though the speeds are
generally lower, such bikes are wow thatrCOs quick on fire road climbs but >elsewhere seem to be mostly just a MTB in my experience, even on the
uphills, if itrCOs not just a fire road, the motor will not do much on the >technical bits, thatrCOs where rider skill/bike geometry/suspension/tyre >choice matter. Let alone downhill where the extra mass isnrCOt particularly >useful.
Am 29 Jul 2026 21:44:25 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com>:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds
which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if
delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at
least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts.
This regulation has almost no teeth. Those 250 watts are the
permitted continuous rated power*) for E-bikes limited to 25
km/h. In fact, the relevant regulation for Europe as applied in
Germany does not specify a limit for peak power at all. The only
relevant and somewhat enforced limit is "no motor power above a
speed of 25 km/h". There are some sensible additional saftety
regulations, like with regard to thermal behavior, but these are
rarely checked or even enforced.
My problem with these 25 km/h-E-Bikes isn't the motorization, but
the fact that these have been made bicycles by law in 2013.
Technically, these so called bicycles still are mopeds. The fact
that you need a certain amount of strength to turn a throttle
doesnrCOt make them bicycles either. But people have been led to
believe that these mopeds are bicycles, and they believe it
because they _want_ that to be true.
Though the speeds are
generally lower, such bikes are wow thatrCOs quick on fire road climbs but >> elsewhere seem to be mostly just a MTB in my experience, even on the
uphills, if itrCOs not just a fire road, the motor will not do much on the >> technical bits, thatrCOs where rider skill/bike geometry/suspension/tyre
choice matter. Let alone downhill where the extra mass isnrCOt particularly >> useful.
Powerfull enough to allow weak riders to damage former walking
paths beyond recognition. Been there, seen that.
By the way, why do you think people use e-MTBs off-road when the
motor has no use there?
---
*) Average power over a 30-minute moving window. For example ten
minutes with 500 watt plus twenty minutes with 125 Watt.
For comparison, according to Garmin, I could slightly exceed an
average of 500 watts for twenty seconds, but that was over four
years ago. Still can do - for about five seconds. For
comparison, an average adult on a road bike needs only about 120
watt in order to sustain a speed of 25 km/h. If you add 3.4
times (340 per cent) the motor power to your own effort, that is
not "pedal assistance" (Tretunterst|+tzung) anymore, as they call
it here, but essentially a almost complete replacement of muscle
power with motor power. The human power curve isn't linear. <https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=iK5cTU5TXn8LFtzx05CUx7>
Wolfgang Strobl <news51@mystrobl.de> wrote:
Am 29 Jul 2026 21:44:25 GMT schrieb Roger MerrimanThe max power is still within very much human range,
<roger@sarlet.com>:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds
which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if >>> delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at
least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts.
This regulation has almost no teeth. Those 250 watts are the
permitted continuous rated power*) for E-bikes limited to 25
km/h. In fact, the relevant regulation for Europe as applied in
Germany does not specify a limit for peak power at all. The only
relevant and somewhat enforced limit is "no motor power above a
speed of 25 km/h". There are some sensible additional saftety
regulations, like with regard to thermal behavior, but these are
rarely checked or even enforced.
My problem with these 25 km/h-E-Bikes isn't the motorization, but
the fact that these have been made bicycles by law in 2013.
Technically, these so called bicycles still are mopeds. The fact
that you need a certain amount of strength to turn a throttle
doesnrCOt make them bicycles either. But people have been led to
believe that these mopeds are bicycles, and they believe it
because they _want_ that to be true.
I can promise you
keeping up with my mate on his E MTB is much easier than the fit folks who
do the Wednesday loop and some can average 200 watts over the hr the loop >takes them, with peaks around 1000 watts, some more some less,
fundamentally they are much harder to hold the wheel even on the Gravel
where I have a technical advantage.
Am 9 Aug 2026 14:51:34 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com>:
Wolfgang Strobl <news51@mystrobl.de> wrote:
Am 29 Jul 2026 21:44:25 GMT schrieb Roger MerrimanThe max power is still within very much human range,
<roger@sarlet.com>:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds
which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if >>>> delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at >>>> least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts.
This regulation has almost no teeth. Those 250 watts are the
permitted continuous rated power*) for E-bikes limited to 25
km/h. In fact, the relevant regulation for Europe as applied in
Germany does not specify a limit for peak power at all. The only
relevant and somewhat enforced limit is "no motor power above a
speed of 25 km/h". There are some sensible additional saftety
regulations, like with regard to thermal behavior, but these are
rarely checked or even enforced.
My problem with these 25 km/h-E-Bikes isn't the motorization, but
the fact that these have been made bicycles by law in 2013.
Technically, these so called bicycles still are mopeds. The fact
that you need a certain amount of strength to turn a throttle
doesnrCOt make them bicycles either. But people have been led to
believe that these mopeds are bicycles, and they believe it
because they _want_ that to be true.
"Human range" does quite some heavy lifting, here.
An engine that gives an 10-year-old child more power and stamina
than an adult bicycle racer has who could win the Tour de France
isn't "within very much human range".
I can promise you
keeping up with my mate on his E MTB is much easier than the fit folks who >> do the Wednesday loop and some can average 200 watts over the hr the loop
takes them, with peaks around 1000 watts, some more some less,
fundamentally they are much harder to hold the wheel even on the Gravel
where I have a technical advantage.
That's misleading and besides the point. Your comparison is
about who is the better artist, not about who has more strength
and endurance.
What gives? IMO, you're just moving the goalpost. Of course a
powerfull but heavy motor might be of less help, when the focus
is on skilful and artistic cycling over challenging terrain for
sports.
I'm old and haven't practiced cycling as a sport in my whole
life. But even I am able to outrun younger people on E-Bikes
quite often. This is caused by the aforementioned limit of 25
km/h. I still manage quite well to ride at around 25 km/h on flat
terrain for a long time. People usually ride these E-bikes at
22rCo23 km/h to avoid repeatedly triggering the power cut-off.
To maintain a speed of 25 km/h on a well-asphalted, flat surface,
I need around 90 watts. That is well below my endurance capacity.
The excessive motor power of E-bikes has almost no effect here.
The situation is much different when accelerating and on uphill
sections, though. With an assist level of 340 percent, E-bike
riders still climb a 6% incline at 22 km/h. That speed - 22 km/h
up a 6% hill - needs 435 watts, according to a calculation with
kreuzotter.de for an 18 kg E-MTB.
Easy peasy: the e-bike rider makes use of the 340 per cent
assistance available on almost every modern e-bike and tackles
the climb using just 100 watts of their own muscle power.
But donrCOt worry, even 90 watts is doable. Modern E-Bike offer an eMTB+-Mode.
"eMTB+: Dynamic support with up to 400% of your rider power for
maximum performance and full control on demanding trails."
<https://help.bosch-ebike.com/#/help-center/ebw-drive-unit-performance-line-cx-r-riding-modes/asset-ast-00274>
435 watts / 5 == 87 watts.
A weakling like me can keep going at 87 watts for almost as long
as I like. I did a eight hour ride, two years ago, averaging 95
watts. Yesterday I did a ride five hour ride, 88 km, 918 meter
cumulative altitude gain, 89 watts on average.
But 435 watts? Garmin tells me that I could do that for 30
seconds, once, four years ago. I'm now down to about 10 seconds,
over the last 12 months. I managed to make it up Mont Ventoux,
anyway. :-)
How long are you able to sustain 250 watts? For me, its about 1-2
minutes. Those E-bikes do that as long as you like.
What I am talking about is how most people I meet in the city or
on my tours throughout the local region actually ride their
E-Bikes. They do it just like they did it before on real bicycles
- mostly on flat ground and slowly. Perhaps a little bit faster
and a bit longer than they could do it before - that motor
doesn't get exhausted, so why not? The main difference is that
they don't use their muscles like the had to do, before the
switch to a motorized vehicle. Virtually all the beneficial
effects of strenuous exercise are eliminated.
Riding a bicycle at these slow speeds on flat ground actually
needs _less_ power than the same amount of walking - that's why
bicycles exist! E-Bikes eliminate even that tiny amount. Of
course, people buy E-Bikes to avoid the occasional effort
required when accelerating or on ascents.
Am 9 Aug 2026 14:51:34 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com>:
Wolfgang Strobl <news51@mystrobl.de> wrote:
Am 29 Jul 2026 21:44:25 GMT schrieb Roger MerrimanThe max power is still within very much human range,
<roger@sarlet.com>:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
17 year old rider, 1500 watts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/07/29/e-moto-rider-killed-on-centre-street-in-heart-of-civic-manhattan
ThatrCOs probably more the speed and well that such bikes are de facto mopeds
which tend to get ridden poorly be that due to riders inexperienced or if >>>> delivery attempting to deliver more items.
I believe some of the newer E MTB can hit such power at peak, though at >>>> least in Europe it needs to average out to 250 watts.
This regulation has almost no teeth. Those 250 watts are the
permitted continuous rated power*) for E-bikes limited to 25
km/h. In fact, the relevant regulation for Europe as applied in
Germany does not specify a limit for peak power at all. The only
relevant and somewhat enforced limit is "no motor power above a
speed of 25 km/h". There are some sensible additional saftety
regulations, like with regard to thermal behavior, but these are
rarely checked or even enforced.
My problem with these 25 km/h-E-Bikes isn't the motorization, but
the fact that these have been made bicycles by law in 2013.
Technically, these so called bicycles still are mopeds. The fact
that you need a certain amount of strength to turn a throttle
doesnrCOt make them bicycles either. But people have been led to
believe that these mopeds are bicycles, and they believe it
because they _want_ that to be true.
"Human range" does quite some heavy lifting, here.
An engine that gives an 10-year-old child more power and stamina
than an adult bicycle racer has who could win the Tour de France
isn't "within very much human range".
No IrCOm really not, unlike you I do ride with others on, E bikes and offI can promise you
keeping up with my mate on his E MTB is much easier than the fit folks who >> do the Wednesday loop and some can average 200 watts over the hr the loop
takes them, with peaks around 1000 watts, some more some less,
fundamentally they are much harder to hold the wheel even on the Gravel
where I have a technical advantage.
That's misleading and besides the point. Your comparison is
about who is the better artist, not about who has more strength
and endurance.
What gives? IMO, you're just moving the goalpost. Of course a
powerfull but heavy motor might be of less help, when the focus
is on skilful and artistic cycling over challenging terrain for
sports.
I'm old and haven't practiced cycling as a sport in my whole
life. But even I am able to outrun younger people on E-Bikes
quite often. This is caused by the aforementioned limit of 25
km/h. I still manage quite well to ride at around 25 km/h on flat
terrain for a long time. People usually ride these E-bikes at
22rCo23 km/h to avoid repeatedly triggering the power cut-off.
To maintain a speed of 25 km/h on a well-asphalted, flat surface,
I need around 90 watts. That is well below my endurance capacity.
The excessive motor power of E-bikes has almost no effect here.
The situation is much different when accelerating and on uphill
sections, though. With an assist level of 340 percent, E-bike
riders still climb a 6% incline at 22 km/h. That speed - 22 km/h
up a 6% hill - needs 435 watts, according to a calculation with
kreuzotter.de for an 18 kg E-MTB.
Easy peasy: the e-bike rider makes use of the 340 per cent
assistance available on almost every modern e-bike and tackles
the climb using just 100 watts of their own muscle power.
But donrCOt worry, even 90 watts is doable. Modern E-Bike offer an eMTB+-Mode.
"eMTB+: Dynamic support with up to 400% of your rider power for
maximum performance and full control on demanding trails."
<https://help.bosch-ebike.com/#/help-center/ebw-drive-unit-performance-line-cx-r-riding-modes/asset-ast-00274>
435 watts / 5 == 87 watts.
A weakling like me can keep going at 87 watts for almost as long
as I like. I did a eight hour ride, two years ago, averaging 95
watts. Yesterday I did a ride five hour ride, 88 km, 918 meter
cumulative altitude gain, 89 watts on average.
But 435 watts? Garmin tells me that I could do that for 30
seconds, once, four years ago. I'm now down to about 10 seconds,
over the last 12 months. I managed to make it up Mont Ventoux,
anyway. :-)
How long are you able to sustain 250 watts? For me, its about 1-2
minutes. Those E-bikes do that as long as you like.
What I am talking about is how most people I meet in the city or
on my tours throughout the local region actually ride their
E-Bikes. They do it just like they did it before on real bicycles
- mostly on flat ground and slowly. Perhaps a little bit faster
and a bit longer than they could do it before - that motor
doesn't get exhausted, so why not? The main difference is that
they don't use their muscles like the had to do, before the
switch to a motorized vehicle. Virtually all the beneficial
effects of strenuous exercise are eliminated.
Riding a bicycle at these slow speeds on flat ground actually
needs _less_ power than the same amount of walking - that's why
bicycles exist! E-Bikes eliminate even that tiny amount. Of
course, people buy E-Bikes to avoid the occasional effort
required when accelerating or on ascents.
In my experience legal e-bikes tend to average 11mph or so, yes they can
hit 15mph but most hold a bit below it, but invariably one needs to slow or >stop if briefly, nor do they have motorbike acceleration away from the >lights, the cutoff is a bit clunky.
On 12 Aug 2026 14:48:06 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
In my experience legal e-bikes tend to average 11mph or so, yes they can
hit 15mph but most hold a bit below it, but invariably one needs to slow or >> stop if briefly, nor do they have motorbike acceleration away from the
lights, the cutoff is a bit clunky.
That's not true on the bike paths I ride. I'm usually at 11 or 12 mph
and I have ebikes pass me and disappear off into the distance. The
ebike speed limit here is 20 mph and I suspect the pedal assist people
are riding just below that so as not to inadvertantly kick the power
off. Most of the riders are sitting very upright and cranking at 40/50
rpm, if peddling at all. Most appear to be younger than me.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 14:48:06 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
In my experience legal e-bikes tend to average 11mph or so, yes they can >>> hit 15mph but most hold a bit below it, but invariably one needs to slow or >>> stop if briefly, nor do they have motorbike acceleration away from the
lights, the cutoff is a bit clunky.
That's not true on the bike paths I ride. I'm usually at 11 or 12 mph
and I have ebikes pass me and disappear off into the distance. The
ebike speed limit here is 20 mph and I suspect the pedal assist people
are riding just below that so as not to inadvertantly kick the power
off. Most of the riders are sitting very upright and cranking at 40/50
rpm, if peddling at all. Most appear to be younger than me.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
ThatAs because the US has legal E bikes up to 28mph with a throttle as
well, if thatAs not a moped I donAt know what it is! And thatAs just the >legal stuff!
Hence various states are apparently clamping down now? And apparently in
New York at least they are trying to get the online market places who >absolutely know this stuff isnAt legal, to remove them, which frankly while >itAs as much as issue in UK is what the UK should be doing as enforcement >isnAt really particularly effective.
Need a lot of traffic cops and for them to know what they are doing, even
in the UK which has really simple laws ie no throttle above 4 mph so
throttle 99% time means not legal and for the motor to cut out at 15 mph. >Whereas US has 3 or more different classes throttles are allowed, I donAt >fancy a US cops chances of working out what is and isnAt legal with that >system!
Roger Merriman
On 12 Aug 2026 20:47:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 14:48:06 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
In my experience legal e-bikes tend to average 11mph or so, yes they can >>>> hit 15mph but most hold a bit below it, but invariably one needs to slow or
stop if briefly, nor do they have motorbike acceleration away from the >>>> lights, the cutoff is a bit clunky.
That's not true on the bike paths I ride. I'm usually at 11 or 12 mph
and I have ebikes pass me and disappear off into the distance. The
ebike speed limit here is 20 mph and I suspect the pedal assist people
are riding just below that so as not to inadvertantly kick the power
off. Most of the riders are sitting very upright and cranking at 40/50
rpm, if peddling at all. Most appear to be younger than me.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
That-As because the US has legal E bikes up to 28mph with a throttle as
well, if that-As not a moped I don-At know what it is! And that-As just the >> legal stuff!
The class 3 (28 MPH) Ebikes are not supposed to have a throttle and
are supposed to be assist only, however it's not easy to tell them
apart from, class 1 and 2. I've been passed by bikes that I'm pretty
sure were exeeding 20 mph with no pedaling.
Hence various states are apparently clamping down now? And apparently in
New York at least they are trying to get the online market places who
absolutely know this stuff isn-At legal, to remove them, which frankly while >> it-As as much as issue in UK is what the UK should be doing as enforcement >> isn-At really particularly effective.
Need a lot of traffic cops and for them to know what they are doing, even
in the UK which has really simple laws ie no throttle above 4 mph so
throttle 99% time means not legal and for the motor to cut out at 15 mph.
Whereas US has 3 or more different classes throttles are allowed, I don-At >> fancy a US cops chances of working out what is and isn-At legal with that
system!
Roger Merriman
I wish they'd start clamping down here.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 20:47:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 14:48:06 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
In my experience legal e-bikes tend to average 11mph or so, yes they can >>>>> hit 15mph but most hold a bit below it, but invariably one needs to slow or
stop if briefly, nor do they have motorbike acceleration away from the >>>>> lights, the cutoff is a bit clunky.
That's not true on the bike paths I ride. I'm usually at 11 or 12 mph
and I have ebikes pass me and disappear off into the distance. The
ebike speed limit here is 20 mph and I suspect the pedal assist people >>>> are riding just below that so as not to inadvertantly kick the power
off. Most of the riders are sitting very upright and cranking at 40/50 >>>> rpm, if peddling at all. Most appear to be younger than me.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
That?s because the US has legal E bikes up to 28mph with a throttle as
well, if that?s not a moped I don?t know what it is! And that?s just the >>> legal stuff!
The class 3 (28 MPH) Ebikes are not supposed to have a throttle and
are supposed to be assist only, however it's not easy to tell them
apart from, class 1 and 2. I've been passed by bikes that I'm pretty
sure were exeeding 20 mph with no pedaling.
IAd not clicked that class 2 have a throttle but not class 3, makes sense >though IAd still argue that class 2/3 still are mopeds.
I believe that changing the class in some cases can be done via an app, and >probably left to the user to regulate.
Hence the pushback by various states though thats again going to be
difficult to enforce, really need to be going after the sellers.
Hence various states are apparently clamping down now? And apparently in >>> New York at least they are trying to get the online market places who
absolutely know this stuff isn?t legal, to remove them, which frankly while >>> it?s as much as issue in UK is what the UK should be doing as enforcement >>> isn?t really particularly effective.
Need a lot of traffic cops and for them to know what they are doing, even >>> in the UK which has really simple laws ie no throttle above 4 mph so
throttle 99% time means not legal and for the motor to cut out at 15 mph. >>> Whereas US has 3 or more different classes throttles are allowed, I don?t >>> fancy a US cops chances of working out what is and isn?t legal with that >>> system!
Roger Merriman
I wish they'd start clamping down here.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Roger Merriman
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