• Re: Average Speeds

    From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 04:32:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 19:29:28 -0500, Mark J cleary
    <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 7/10/2026 6:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    Mark J cleary <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:29 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Apparently, speedometers measure average speed in a different manner
    than a Garmin. Probably length of timat maximum speed vs total ride
    time,rather than averaging speed per second. This would increase my
    average speed by 3 mph or more. It would also put a better light on why >>>> my Garmin average speed is so low while I pass so many people. My second >>>> half return speed can be 17 mph or higher and my Garmin speed may change >>>> from 10.5 to 11 mph.
    Garbage, Garmin is deadly accurate with speed and even when I used one
    with an old wireless Sigma not GPS they were very close. You take Garmin >>> and the average and put it in the bank. That is what it is and cyclist
    passing you or you passing them has zero to do with speed. Speed is
    distance covered over time.
    Deacon Mark


    Indeed considered that the Garmin has records a point of time/place as long >> as segments etc, arenAt too short it will absolutely be on the money for
    the time and thus speed from point to point, can get some errant max speed >> and max gradients but the averages are correct.

    YouAd think being healthy enough to be riding in your 80As would be enough, >> than trying to convince himself and others heAs still the faster rider.

    Roger Merriman
    Garmin used GPS information based on the grid of the earth. It generally
    is accurate to with 10-15 feet of where you are. I have routes that go
    out 50 miles and Garmin will record them and they are all basically the >same. GPS is all about position and time and then it measure speed. The >error is basically no existent for cycling purposes. It might be for a
    world record long jump in measure a 30 foot distance. On a straight 1
    mile road it will not be off more and a few feet less than 50 for sure.

    I live in the middle of an agriculture corn and beans bonanza. All the >farmers plant there rows of crops and fields using GPS position same
    stuff as Garmin. They get down to 18 inch rows perfect and straight with >built in best coverage.

    My son in law does that. The tractors and the combine steer off the
    GPS signal.

    This is fact and anyone who thinks there data is faulty is fooling >themselves or they have something completely out of wack going on.
    Deacon Mark

    I usually ride up and back always on the right side of a ten or twelve
    foot wide bike path. If I zoom in on the Garmin Connect map after a
    ride I can see both paths on the sides of the trail with a space in
    between.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NFN Smith@worldoff9908@gmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 08:36:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo.

    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my
    speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 11:58:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 08:36:13 -0700, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or >something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a >little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo.

    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken >directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my >speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith

    FWIW, my Garmin computer gets it's speed and distance data via a
    sensor wrapped around the front wheel axle. It does use the GPS to
    calculate the wheel circumference.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 11:26:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/11/2026 10:36 AM, NFN Smith wrote:
    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need
    for GPS or something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get
    data directly off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a
    cadence meter, and that has helped me to discover that I
    ride better at a rate that's a little higher than what I
    would do normally. Without the meter, on a flat road, I'm
    most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the low-to-mid
    80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a
    higher tempo.

    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed
    to be replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really
    liked (again, without phone/computer integration) and a
    cadence meter.-a That one is long abandoned by Trek, and so I
    ended up getting an identical replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data
    that is taken directly from my wheel rather than trying to
    calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is
    that occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's
    frustrating to see my speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith


    The better units accept an actual distance per wheel
    revolution and are very accurate so long as you measured
    correctly.

    With your usual tire pressure, ride through a paint splat on
    a sidewalk, measure dot-to dot. Typical road tire is 2.098
    meters; YMMV.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 11:58:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/11/2026 10:58 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 08:36:13 -0700, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or
    something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a
    little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo. >>
    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken
    directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my
    speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith

    FWIW, my Garmin computer gets it's speed and distance data via a
    sensor wrapped around the front wheel axle. It does use the GPS to
    calculate the wheel circumference.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    i would think on Catrike it would be better if on the big rear wheel at
    least more accurate.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 17:56:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 08:36:13 -0700, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or
    something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a
    little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo. >>
    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken
    directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my
    speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith

    FWIW, my Garmin computer gets it's speed and distance data via a
    sensor wrapped around the front wheel axle. It does use the GPS to
    calculate the wheel circumference.

    IrCOve never had the need for the speed sensor, since it seems to be good enough, even some older units that did wander if you rode in twisty MTB
    trails. And occasionally gave obviously errant readings when you looked at
    the ride.

    The xx30 stuff seems good enough, even in the twisty wooded trails.


    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 17:56:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com> wrote:
    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo.

    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal.

    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith


    For myself itrCOs more the navigation that I find useful, having
    notifications from the phone is mildly useful but not a deal breaker,
    likewise riding off road average speeds arenrCOt wildly useful, Gravel rides the average speeds are remarkably consistent between Party aka social pace
    and head down and chase the sun, ie donrCOt tell you much at all!

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 15:34:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 11:58:42 -0500, Mark J cleary
    <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 7/11/2026 10:58 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 08:36:13 -0700, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't really feel any need for GPS or
    something that integrates with my phone or computer.

    I'm generally happy with with wired connections that get data directly
    off my wheel.

    For a long time, I've found that I really like having a cadence meter,
    and that has helped me to discover that I ride better at a rate that's a >>> little higher than what I would do normally. Without the meter, on a
    flat road, I'm most comfortable with a cadence somewhere in the
    low-to-mid 80's RPM, but with the meter, I typically find a better ride
    (and higher average speed) by going down a gear and riding a higher tempo. >>>
    Several years ago, the Bontrager Trip-3 I was using needed to be
    replaced, and I couldn't find anything that I really liked (again,
    without phone/computer integration) and a cadence meter. That one is
    long abandoned by Trek, and so I ended up getting an identical
    replacement off of Amazon.

    As for average speeds, I find that I better trust raw data that is taken >>> directly from my wheel rather than trying to calculate from a GPS signal. >>>
    Of course, the one disadvantage of the wired approach is that
    occasionally, my sensor gets mis-aligned, and it's frustrating to see my >>> speed and distance data not incrementing.

    Smith

    FWIW, my Garmin computer gets it's speed and distance data via a
    sensor wrapped around the front wheel axle. It does use the GPS to
    calculate the wheel circumference.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    i would think on Catrike it would be better if on the big rear wheel at >least more accurate.

    Might be more accurate but the front wheel is good enough for me and
    it's easier to get at to change the battery. I've changed that battery
    without getting up off the seat.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 08:08:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/10/2026 3:29 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Apparently, speedometers measure average speed in a different manner
    than a Garmin. Probably length of timat maximum speed vs total ride
    time,rather than averaging speed per second. This would increase my
    average speed by 3 mph or more.

    "length of timat maximum speed vs total ride time" is total nonsense.

    It would also put a better light on
    why my Garmin average speed is so low while I pass so many people. My
    second half return speed can be 17 mph or higher and my Garmin speed
    may change from 10.5 to 11 mph.

    You may have averaged 17 mph for a short period, but it wasn't the
    entire 2nd half:

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19218815422/analysis

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NFN Smith@worldoff9908@gmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 15:58:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi wrote:

    The better units accept an actual distance per wheel revolution and are
    very accurate so long as you measured correctly.

    With your usual tire pressure, ride through a paint splat on a sidewalk, measure dot-to dot. Typical road tire is 2.098 meters;-aYMMV.

    Mine does that, but I've never used it. I'm content to use the standard measurements for 23 mm or 25 mm widths. There's actually a setting that allows for defining more than one -- thus, for changing out a wheel or
    just a tire of a different size.

    However, when I was playing with that a couple of weeks ago, I found
    that it is possible to measure the precise distance, and then set the
    computer to use that. I don't need quite that level of precision,
    especially since I'm not always good at keeping my tires properly
    inflated. Thus, even if a 25 mm tire is rated at 90 psi, I may go a
    couple of weeks between checking pressure, and it's not uncommon that
    I've let it go down to around 40 psi.

    As far as measuring is concerned, the only time I've done that was years
    ago when I was officiating, in years that USACycling had maximum gear
    ratios for juniors, and where we officials had to do roll-outs after
    races, to make sure that participants weren't using over-geared bikes.

    Smith
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2