• Re: Curious

    From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 11 08:11:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/10/2026 9:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 15:53:15 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:

    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif
    appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding
    an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the
    world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said
    that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had
    never been there?

    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the manure
    wagons leave smears of road hazard.

    LOL

    My wife and I rode tandem with a small group of friends in the
    Shenandoah valley maybe 10-15 years ago. They used these giant
    hose/cannons that *sprayed* the manure out onto the fields.
    Needless to say, the road surfaces were not spared. Gross.


    And those pressure sprayers are filled from huge tanker
    trucks, which leave a trail.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a
    cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring
    your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never
    told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why
    is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy





    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 07:56:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/10/2026 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 11:54:22 2026 Catrike Ryder-a wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 13:48:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 17:15:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Position?-a I don't recall ever being elected or appointed to any
    position in RBT.-a Enlighten me, please.

    I missed the election...-a however, if elected I will not serve.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of
    151 watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more >>>>> than a cup of coffee for him.

    You left out the energy produced by your favorite fuel:

    "Calorie count - Alcoholic beverages"
    <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000886.htm>

    Reminder:-a 04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-
    kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For-a-a-a 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-
    kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For-a-a-a WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and
    programming state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating
    rooms to automate measuring your gas and electricity usage he
    believes that without any training and experience he knows more
    about technology than I do.

    Tom, do you still claim that the following constitutes an education?

    06/07/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/
    Xaamy15iBQAJ>
    "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you >>>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
    of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

    09/18/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/
    p9rFmANKBgAJ>
    "I dropped out of the city college because it was adding absolutely
    nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more important? Having a
    piece of paper saying that I could read and write would have allowed
    me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was perfectly
    satisfied being an engineer and project leader."

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can? Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    Ummm... Tom.-a We were discussing diet and food calories, not bicycle
    building, performance monitors, fast cars or educational
    accomplishments.-a Why are you trying to change the topic?




    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif appointed and
    was as successful at that as he was at finding an engineering position
    in the hottest EE marketplace in the world. Imagine him telling
    everyone I was lying when I said that there was mud on the road in
    Cull Canyon when he had never been there? It's pretty hard to find
    that sort of ignorance among normal people.


    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury!-a Here in Dairyland, the manure wagons
    leave smears of road hazard.


    I hear cheese works well

    https://www.wpr.org/news/green-county-ice-snow-road-salt-cheese-brine

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 08:47:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/12/2026 6:56 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 11:54:22 2026 Catrike Ryder-a wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 13:48:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
    <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 17:15:46 GMT, cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of Liebermann and wants to say the most
    curious things?

    Position?-a I don't recall ever being elected or
    appointed to any
    position in RBT.-a Enlighten me, please.

    I missed the election...-a however, if elected I will not
    serve.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my heart rate monitor and power meter that
    reports average power of 151 watts and average
    normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a
    cup of coffee for him.

    You left out the energy produced by your favorite fuel:

    "Calorie count - Alcoholic beverages"
    <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/
    patientinstructions/000886.htm>

    Reminder:-a 04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/
    detail/44604354/thomas-h- kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For-a-a-a 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/
    detail/49646718/thomas-h- kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For-a-a-a WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming state of the art electronic devices
    from medical devices used to end the AIDS epidemic,
    save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring
    your gas and electricity usage he believes that
    without any training and experience he knows more
    about technology than I do.

    Tom, do you still claim that the following constitutes
    an education?

    06/07/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
    QNPNSofg064/m/ Xaamy15iBQAJ>
    "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more
    books than you
    have. I read out three public libraries, the military
    library and all
    of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an
    engineer."

    09/18/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
    H5UQas_9HLA/m/ p9rFmANKBgAJ>
    "I dropped out of the city college because it was
    adding absolutely
    nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more
    important? Having a
    piece of paper saying that I could read and write would
    have allowed
    me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was
    perfectly
    satisfied being an engineer and project leader."

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can? Drive
    cars faster than me (I drive the speed limit}? All
    this from someone who has never told us what his
    qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his comments about calories are entirely
    incorrect and he knows it. So why is he saying them?
    Straighten up Roger.

    Ummm... Tom.-a We were discussing diet and food
    calories, not bicycle
    building, performance monitors, fast cars or educational
    accomplishments.-a Why are you trying to change the topic?




    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif
    appointed and was as successful at that as he was at
    finding an engineering position in the hottest EE
    marketplace in the world. Imagine him telling everyone I
    was lying when I said that there was mud on the road in
    Cull Canyon when he had never been there? It's pretty
    hard to find that sort of ignorance among normal people.


    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury!-a Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.


    I hear cheese works well

    https://www.wpr.org/news/green-county-ice-snow-road-salt-
    cheese-brine


    Yes, and speaking of innovation some townships here use
    similar local byproducts- pickle brine and beet juice.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ted Heise@theise@panix.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 14:04:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun, 12 Jul 2026 08:47:41 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 6:56 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:

    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif
    appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding
    an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the
    world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said
    that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had
    never been there? It's pretty hard to find that sort of
    ignorance among normal people.

    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.

    I hear cheese works well

    https://www.wpr.org/news/green-county-ice-snow-road-salt-
    cheese-brine

    Yes, and speaking of innovation some townships here use similar
    local byproducts- pickle brine and beet juice.

    Here in Cornhusker country, corn processing byproducts are also
    used...

    https://nebraskacorn.gov/cornstalk/corn101/how-corn-based-deicer-keeps-roadways-clear-during-winter/
    --
    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> Gretna, NE, USA
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 14:10:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    Does have a remarkably hit rate with this!

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a
    cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    Quite i average 11mph on my flat commute which is more or less the same
    amount of climbing, it absolutely doesnrCOt burn calories nor much effort.

    On the gravel bike with more difficult terrain such as sand at the moment
    you absolutely do burn more calories for same average speeds, and thus need
    to have calories or carbs on the ride, on the commute.

    even taking the roadie into central so 18 miles and 12/13 mph averages
    thatrCOs a cup of coffee than a 2nd breakfast, or need carbs on the ride.



    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring
    your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.

    Originally networking though not done anything particularly with it for a while! Though as is the nature of such technology itrCOs not particularly
    fast moving ie I remember being told IPv4 would be obsoleterCa

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    I do wonder if that might be the problem as the power meter should be okay,
    but if herCOs somehow under torqued the crankset didnrCOt the crank arms fall off once?

    That or just as you said somewhere? That his weight is way out, though
    would need to be out by some degree IrCOd of thought?

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never
    told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why
    is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy






    Roger Merriman


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 19:59:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jul 10 15:53:15 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 11:54:22 2026 Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 13:48:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 17:15:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Position? I don't recall ever being elected or appointed to any
    position in RBT. Enlighten me, please.

    I missed the election... however, if elected I will not serve.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a cup of coffee for him.

    You left out the energy produced by your favorite fuel:

    "Calorie count - Alcoholic beverages"
    <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000886.htm>

    Reminder: 04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes that without any training and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    Tom, do you still claim that the following constitutes an education?

    06/07/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
    "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you >>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
    of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

    09/18/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/p9rFmANKBgAJ>
    "I dropped out of the city college because it was adding absolutely
    nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more important? Having a
    piece of paper saying that I could read and write would have allowed
    me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was perfectly
    satisfied being an engineer and project leader."

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can? Drive cars faster than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    Ummm... Tom. We were discussing diet and food calories, not bicycle
    building, performance monitors, fast cars or educational
    accomplishments. Why are you trying to change the topic?




    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had never been there? It's pretty hard to find that sort of ignorance among normal people.


    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.
    It was more than mud on the road. It completely filled the reservoir. They have since built a concrete reservoir that they can clean out when necessary since it is used to supply water to the fire hydrants in the area. But according to Liebermann, there was never any water there. I suppose I shouldn't talk him down, but he cannot contain himself when he has no idea of what he is talking about. QAll I had to do was call my investment counselor and get $12,000 the same day for some home improvements and that was a tenth of what I made last month on my investments. You know, I am generous with my money such as buying good bikes for friends who cannot afford decent bikes. But we have Liebermann telling me that I'm broke. Too bad that he isn't real.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 20:05:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sat Jul 11 02:38:45 2026 Ted Heise wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 15:53:15 -0500,
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:

    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif
    appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding
    an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the
    world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said
    that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had
    never been there?

    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the manure
    wagons leave smears of road hazard.

    LOL

    My wife and I rode tandem with a small group of friends in the
    Shenandoah valley maybe 10-15 years ago. They used these giant
    hose/cannons that *sprayed* the manure out onto the fields.
    Needless to say, the road surfaces were not spared. Gross.
    One can only imagine the front of your tights and the smell at the coffee stop. --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 20:09:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jul 10 20:14:36 2026 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 15:53:15 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.

    I just discovered that I have lactose intolerance: <https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/digestive-diseases/lactose-intolerance/definition-facts>
    That means I can't eat anything made with dairy products. The "plant
    based" fake dairy products are tolerable, not as good tasting as the
    real stuff. The lactase enzyme pills mostly work, but only if I can
    finish the meal in less than 30 minutes and if I remember to take the
    pill on the first bite. If I forget, on the next day, I simulate the
    dairy manure wagon.
    Just eat a couple of Lactase Pills (AKA Milk digestqnt) before consuming dairy products.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 20:23:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 20:34:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jul 10 23:23:32 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 20:52:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a
    cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring
    your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never
    told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why
    is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy
    Using my figures on that power calculator with conservative numbers show that over a lot of the ride I'm making 350 watts. I don't ride enough now to pedal continuously but I certainbly used to. And the normal Tuesday ride used to be 3,300 feet with an average climb of 8.5% and 12% in places.
    And I very much doubt that you have ever built a bike yourself. Installing an MTB brake lever is hardly building a drop bar bike from scratch. Isn't it easy to tell someone to shut up from 4,000 miles away? Liebermann does that same sort of crap because he knows that I don't hurt people that don't actually start a fight with me.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 22:02:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 23:23:32 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450
    calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.

    And note that Mark on two wheels was quite a bit faster than Mr Kunich and >> still is on three wheels, you?d expect realistically at 10/11mph that he?d >> be in double rather than triple digits, for power output which would match >> the Strava segments speeds which are often single digits.

    I haven?t a clue what he?s done but the power meter is clearly over reading >> by quite some margin and is producing figures that simply can?t be true.
    Hence the frankly impossible power and calories.




    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.
    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts. Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.


    ThatrCOs for 20 year olds not 50 years olds let alone 80 year olds! Unless
    you weigh as much as a moose yourCOre not going to be producing 150 watts or even just triple figures.

    27 miles at average speed of 11mph will be 50/60 watts, and 400/500
    calories. IrCOve assumed hoods and 215Lb weight, 20lb bike if you or your
    bike are dramatically lighter the power will drop further, for the 11 mph average.

    ItrCOs a technical group in general folks understand the concept of how kit works and how to reason hence yourCOve not convinced anyone but yourself.

    IrCOm glad yourCOre still riding and hopefully enjoying it, but such claims are just a folly!

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 17:24:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450
    calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts every 2 minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER? That certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the
    cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way. You did
    not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness really --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 18:02:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun, 12 Jul 2026 20:09:34 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri Jul 10 20:14:36 2026 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 15:53:15 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.

    I just discovered that I have lactose intolerance:
    <https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/digestive-diseases/lactose-intolerance/definition-facts>
    That means I can't eat anything made with dairy products. The "plant
    based" fake dairy products are tolerable, not as good tasting as the
    real stuff. The lactase enzyme pills mostly work, but only if I can
    finish the meal in less than 30 minutes and if I remember to take the
    pill on the first bite. If I forget, on the next day, I simulate the
    dairy manure wagon.

    Just eat a couple of Lactase Pills (AKA Milk digestqnt) before consuming dairy products.

    Thanks. Unfortunately, you just failed my reading comprehension test.
    Please re-read what I wrote above and notice the "lactase enzyme
    pills" section.

    I've been such pills with meals for about 3 weeks. As I mentioned,
    the pills "mostly work" which is a polite way of suggesting that there
    are times where they don't work, such as when I fail to follow
    instructions. The label says "TAKE WITH YOUR FIRST BITE" and they
    mean it. If I forget, like I did last Wednesday, and instead take the
    pill after stuffing my face with dairy products, I find myself with
    terminal diarrhea and endless farts. Fortunately, I've been staying
    mostly at home for the duration and have not been mistaken for a dairy
    manure wagon.

    I tried a few brands and settled on "Dairy Relief" from Target. $13
    for 96 pills ($0.135/ea). I seem to be averaging 4 pills per day
    which grinds out to $198/year. Ouch. <https://www.target.com/p/fast-acting-lactose-dairy-intolerance-treatments-digestive-aid-caplets-up-up/-/A-1012288014?preselect=90595120>

    I'm still stacking firewood and am half done. Delivery of a 2nd cord
    of firewood hasn't been scheduled yet, but my guess(tm) is in a week: <https://photos.app.goo.gl/79sMhdkyVFSNSa9m9>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 18:18:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun, 12 Jul 2026 19:59:16 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri Jul 10 15:53:15 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 11:54:22 2026 Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 13:48:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 17:15:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Position? I don't recall ever being elected or appointed to any
    position in RBT. Enlighten me, please.

    I missed the election... however, if elected I will not serve.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a cup of coffee for him.

    You left out the energy produced by your favorite fuel:

    "Calorie count - Alcoholic beverages"
    <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000886.htm>

    Reminder: 04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes that without any training and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    Tom, do you still claim that the following constitutes an education?

    06/07/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
    "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you >> >>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
    of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

    09/18/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/p9rFmANKBgAJ>
    "I dropped out of the city college because it was adding absolutely
    nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more important? Having a
    piece of paper saying that I could read and write would have allowed
    me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was perfectly
    satisfied being an engineer and project leader."

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can? Drive cars faster than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    Ummm... Tom. We were discussing diet and food calories, not bicycle
    building, performance monitors, fast cars or educational
    accomplishments. Why are you trying to change the topic?




    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had never been there? It's pretty hard to find that sort of ignorance among normal people.


    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.




    It was more than mud on the road. It completely filled the reservoir. They have since built a concrete reservoir that they can clean out when necessary since it is used to supply water to the fire hydrants in the area. But according to Liebermann, there was never any water there.

    Tom's Facebook photo with the "Danger. Deep Mud. KEEP OUT" sign.
    Judging by the faded red paint on the sign and the mangled sign post,
    I would guess(tm) that it has been there for many years. <https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1063064831504932&set=pb.100034042758783.-2207520000&type=3>
    See any mud, or previous signs of mud? I don't. Tom's original
    complaint was that he couldn't ride on the trail, path, road, whatever
    because of the deep mud. The only place mud might accumulate is
    clearly marked as "KEEP OUT". Tom, didn't you read the sign before
    diving into the mud with your bicycle?

    I suppose I shouldn't talk him down, but he cannot contain himself when he has no idea of what he is talking about.

    I suppose I shouldn't point out Tom's errors, but it's fun and I
    cannot resist the temptation.

    QAll I had to do was call my investment counselor and get $12,000 the same day for some home improvements and that was a tenth of what I made last month on my investments. You know, I am generous with my money such as buying good bikes for friends who cannot afford decent bikes. But we have Liebermann telling me that I'm broke. Too bad that he isn't real.

    Tom, why do you have a Garmin Edge 1030 Plus but haven't bothered to
    subscribe to the full Strava account or to any other cycling tracker
    service? If you are so wealthy, why are you also so cheap? Some 2025
    and 2026 samples:

    01/15/2025
    Message-ID: <ykVhP.814228$DPl.533594@fx13.iad>
    "I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems
    electronics department because the only people in the company that
    knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer.
    And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year."

    03/05/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=121640&group=rec.bicycles.tech#121640>
    "I GAVE $60,000 to my brothers... In order to protect my investments
    from any possible recession I have moved from growth stocks into fuds
    like Govertrnment bonds which pay low interest rates rather than
    growth. And I still have increased my investments to over $1.1
    Million."

    06/07/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=127251&group=rec.bicycles.tech#127251>
    "I'm sitting here with a total worth of about $1.7 million..."

    06/10/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=127453&group=rec.bicycles.tech#127453>
    "I had made $30,000 which brought me back to the point before the
    losses in April"
    "I now have a comfortable cushion over a million..."
    "I have been offered over $200,000 per year to return to work..."

    06/23/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=128768&group=rec.bicycles.tech#128768>
    "I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries
    starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million. I wish
    to remain retired."

    11/17/2025
    Message-ID: <mPKSQ.83128$Hawc.58682@fx14.iad>
    "I just got my latest financual report. After giving my brothers
    $60,000, just paying $6,000 in property taxes, and talk my wife out to
    eat once or twice a day, I am back up to $1.1 million in investments.,
    have $11,000 dollars worth of bikes in the garage, and have been offer
    $800,000 for my home as is. And I'm driving qa very nice car."

    01/20/2026
    Message-ID: <t350nkd8i8cpigme1kkj2qq77ajp7sftqo@4ax.com>
    Subject: RE: Re: Oddities
    "Sitting on my ass this last year my investments made me $100,000
    dollars"
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 12 19:48:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun, 12 Jul 2026 20:52:25 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Liebermann does that same sort of crap because he knows that I don't hurt people that don't actually start a fight with me.

    Tom. It's good to know that you're not into violence:

    07/23/2023 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Zu_BtGgv8Fs/m/kOeFYBo9BgAJ>
    "I don't believe in 500 meter kill shots. I believe in walking right
    up to you and breaking your neck. I know just how to do it so that it
    won't kill you, just paralyze you and put you in a wheelchair for the
    rest of your life. But you could use friction shifters on it and rim
    brakes."

    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/gIOms6YY-TU/m/cao421nvKgAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/7ixv4mKN6TQ/m/U6CU1hJjAAAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Zu_BtGgv8Fs/m/fXphqahBBgAJ>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Jul 13 08:32:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Mark J cleary <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450
    calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind
    friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage
    causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people
    without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts every 2
    minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER? That
    certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way. You did
    not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness really

    Indeed on Saturday rode with two guys one of who had a power meter other is
    one of the faster riders, 121 watts over 29 miles, said rider was pushing
    on a bit to keep up, 12mph which is touch faster than normal, had
    everything from tarmac to deep sand and rooty tooty single track.

    These are taller than myself so 6ft + so similar weights and much more difficult terrain at higher speeds and still (just) lower power output
    which rationally canrCOt be!

    Roger Merriman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech


    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts.
    Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a
    clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know
    better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts. >> Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer
    efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Jul 13 05:32:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/12/2026 6:24 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi-a wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450
    calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind
    friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage
    causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people
    without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts every
    2 minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER? That
    certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way.

    Exactly. Power is power. If you can sustain 350 watts indoors, you can
    sustain 350 watts outdoors. While it _is_ true that terrain, road
    surface, and weather will dramatically affect your speed, it generally
    doesn't affect your power more than a few percentage points as long as
    it isn't wisconsin-cold out.


    You did
    not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness
    really



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Jul 13 05:39:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/12/2026 9:18 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Jul 2026 19:59:16 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri Jul 10 15:53:15 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:43 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 11:54:22 2026 Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 13:48:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Wed, 08 Jul 2026 17:15:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Position? I don't recall ever being elected or appointed to any
    position in RBT. Enlighten me, please.

    I missed the election... however, if elected I will not serve.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a cup of coffee for him.

    You left out the energy produced by your favorite fuel:

    "Calorie count - Alcoholic beverages"
    <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000886.htm>

    Reminder: 04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
    <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes that without any training and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    Tom, do you still claim that the following constitutes an education? >>>>>>
    06/07/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
    "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you >>>>>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all >>>>>> of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

    09/18/2022
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/p9rFmANKBgAJ>
    "I dropped out of the city college because it was adding absolutely >>>>>> nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more important? Having a >>>>>> piece of paper saying that I could read and write would have allowed >>>>>> me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was perfectly
    satisfied being an engineer and project leader."

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can? Drive cars faster than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    Ummm... Tom. We were discussing diet and food calories, not bicycle >>>>>> building, performance monitors, fast cars or educational
    accomplishments. Why are you trying to change the topic?




    Indeed, stupid Liebermann was not elected he was seif appointed and was as successful at that as he was at finding an engineering position in the hottest EE marketplace in the world. Imagine him telling everyone I was lying when I said that there was mud on the road in Cull Canyon when he had never been there? It's pretty hard to find that sort of ignorance among normal people.


    Mud on the road? Bloody luxury! Here in Dairyland, the
    manure wagons leave smears of road hazard.




    It was more than mud on the road. It completely filled the reservoir. They have since built a concrete reservoir that they can clean out when necessary since it is used to supply water to the fire hydrants in the area. But according to Liebermann, there was never any water there.

    Tom's Facebook photo with the "Danger. Deep Mud. KEEP OUT" sign.
    Judging by the faded red paint on the sign and the mangled sign post,
    I would guess(tm) that it has been there for many years. <https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1063064831504932&set=pb.100034042758783.-2207520000&type=3>
    See any mud, or previous signs of mud? I don't. Tom's original
    complaint was that he couldn't ride on the trail, path, road, whatever because of the deep mud. The only place mud might accumulate is
    clearly marked as "KEEP OUT". Tom, didn't you read the sign before
    diving into the mud with your bicycle?

    I suppose I shouldn't talk him down, but he cannot contain himself when he has no idea of what he is talking about.

    I suppose I shouldn't point out Tom's errors, but it's fun and I
    cannot resist the temptation.

    QAll I had to do was call my investment counselor and get $12,000 the same day for some home improvements and that was a tenth of what I made last month on my investments. You know, I am generous with my money such as buying good bikes for friends who cannot afford decent bikes. But we have Liebermann telling me that I'm broke. Too bad that he isn't real.

    Tom, why do you have a Garmin Edge 1030 Plus but haven't bothered to subscribe to the full Strava account or to any other cycling tracker
    service? If you are so wealthy, why are you also so cheap? Some 2025
    and 2026 samples:

    01/15/2025
    Message-ID: <ykVhP.814228$DPl.533594@fx13.iad>
    "I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems
    electronics department because the only people in the company that
    knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer.
    And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year."

    03/05/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=121640&group=rec.bicycles.tech#121640>
    "I GAVE $60,000 to my brothers... In order to protect my investments
    from any possible recession I have moved from growth stocks into fuds
    like Govertrnment bonds which pay low interest rates rather than
    growth. And I still have increased my investments to over $1.1
    Million."

    06/07/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=127251&group=rec.bicycles.tech#127251>
    "I'm sitting here with a total worth of about $1.7 million..."

    06/10/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=127453&group=rec.bicycles.tech#127453>
    "I had made $30,000 which brought me back to the point before the
    losses in April"
    "I now have a comfortable cushion over a million..."
    "I have been offered over $200,000 per year to return to work..."

    06/23/2025 <https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=128768&group=rec.bicycles.tech#128768>
    "I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million. I wish
    to remain retired."

    11/17/2025
    Message-ID: <mPKSQ.83128$Hawc.58682@fx14.iad>
    "I just got my latest financual report. After giving my brothers
    $60,000, just paying $6,000 in property taxes, and talk my wife out to
    eat once or twice a day, I am back up to $1.1 million in investments.,
    have $11,000 dollars worth of bikes in the garage, and have been offer $800,000 for my home as is. And I'm driving qa very nice car."

    01/20/2026
    Message-ID: <t350nkd8i8cpigme1kkj2qq77ajp7sftqo@4ax.com>
    Subject: RE: Re: Oddities
    "Sitting on my ass this last year my investments made me $100,000
    dollars"



    I'm glad I have him blocked so I don't get inundated with all that
    nonsense, but I have to say...
    "All I had to do was call my investment counselor and get $12,000 the
    same day for some home improvements and that was a tenth of what I made
    last month on my investments"

    So tommy made $120,000 dollars in one month on investments, but he's
    still only worth 1.1 million as of november of last year?

    Must be that trump math.....
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 15:02:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a
    cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring
    your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never
    told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why
    is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy
    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 10:20:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day. >>

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you. >>
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?

    With your calorie intake/expenditure and power numbers,
    you're at risk of severe weight loss and/or malnutrition.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 16:50:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 >>>>> watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming >>>>> state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end >>>>> the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you. >>>
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more
    accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more
    accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even
    Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures
    and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?

    With your calorie intake/expenditure and power numbers,
    you're at risk of severe weight loss and/or malnutrition.


    The calories expenditures and power levels and that they are improbable if
    not impossible with other known sources, ie your average speed, and
    appropriate weight.

    Shows that yourCOve somehow got something very wrong with the power meter set up, or installation of the cranks etc. Garmin etc will absolutely just
    display the figures given this is very much a case of bad data in, bad data out.

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 12:14:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/14/2026 11:50 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 >>>>>> watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding >>>> at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of >>>> the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just >>>> under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming >>>>>> state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end >>>>>> the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more
    accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more
    accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even
    Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures
    and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?

    With your calorie intake/expenditure and power numbers,
    you're at risk of severe weight loss and/or malnutrition.


    The calories expenditures and power levels and that they are improbable if not impossible with other known sources, ie your average speed, and appropriate weight.

    Shows that yourCOve somehow got something very wrong with the power meter set up, or installation of the cranks etc. Garmin etc will absolutely just display the figures given this is very much a case of bad data in, bad data out.

    Roger Merriman

    Actually knowing the amount of calories a person burns during cycling is
    a best guess. Power Meters are generally accurate when you plug in
    weight and heart rate with power. Even then people burn calories
    different and some are quite efficient at saving them.

    A long distance marathon runner running at 12 MPH will doing a huge
    amount of work however then are very efficient will actually not burn
    calories like a runner who has less efficient stride.

    In the end one can do a calorie burn by heart rate during a ride. Take
    average HR and weight and find the formulas they are all on line> Plug
    in the values and you will get pretty close to calories burned.

    Mine this morning using this was 1178. I weight 162 and average HR was
    94 and I am 64 years old. I did. Mt garmin 945 said I burned up 891.
    Basically in the neighborhood.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 17:27:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Mark J cleary <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
    On 7/14/2026 11:50 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my >>>>>>> heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 >>>>>>> watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>>>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding >>>>> at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of >>>>> the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin, >>>>> Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was >>>>> was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just >>>>> under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry, >>>>> that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming >>>>>>> state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end >>>>>>> the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>>>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>>>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his >>>>>>> comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>>>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more >>>> accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more
    accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even
    Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures >>>> and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers? >>>
    With your calorie intake/expenditure and power numbers,
    you're at risk of severe weight loss and/or malnutrition.


    The calories expenditures and power levels and that they are improbable if >> not impossible with other known sources, ie your average speed, and
    appropriate weight.

    Shows that yourCOve somehow got something very wrong with the power meter set
    up, or installation of the cranks etc. Garmin etc will absolutely just
    display the figures given this is very much a case of bad data in, bad data >> out.

    Roger Merriman

    Actually knowing the amount of calories a person burns during cycling is
    a best guess. Power Meters are generally accurate when you plug in
    weight and heart rate with power. Even then people burn calories
    different and some are quite efficient at saving them.

    I didnrCOt want to confuse him any further with the vagaries of calories and the amount of energy in food and the varying amounts that are digested and
    so on.

    A long distance marathon runner running at 12 MPH will doing a huge
    amount of work however then are very efficient will actually not burn calories like a runner who has less efficient stride.

    In the end one can do a calorie burn by heart rate during a ride. Take average HR and weight and find the formulas they are all on line> Plug
    in the values and you will get pretty close to calories burned.

    Mine this morning using this was 1178. I weight 162 and average HR was
    94 and I am 64 years old. I did. Mt garmin 945 said I burned up 891. Basically in the neighborhood.


    Roger Merriman


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sms@scharf.steven@geemail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 13:03:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/12/2026 6:18 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    I suppose I shouldn't point out Tom's errors, but it's fun and I
    cannot resist the temptation.
    You live rent-free in his head as well. He is obsessed with you.
    --
    rCLIf you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
    really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
    indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
    they do about the subject.rCYrCoTin Foil Awards
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 21:51:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts.
    Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a
    clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.
    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?
    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on real roads and real climbs.
    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10 mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year?
    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my READING them off of the Garmin.
    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 21:55:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Sun Jul 12 17:24:36 2026 Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450
    calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts every 2 minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER? That certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the
    cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way. You did
    not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness really
    Mark, you are correct. But trainers do no have road friction, aerodynamic drag and wind added into the actual power necessary to give you a speed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 22:08:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Jul 13 05:32:34 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 6:24 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 22:18:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Jul 13 05:32:34 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 6:24 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Jul 14 19:21:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/14/2026 4:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 17:24:36 2026 Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing
    and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes
    that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450 >>>>>>>>>>> calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie
    intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts every 2 minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER? That certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the
    cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way. You did
    not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness really





    Mark, you are correct. But trainers do no have road friction, aerodynamic drag and wind added into the actual power necessary to give you a speed.
    Tom I am no longer going to respond or say anything to you because you
    simply are too far off base. Your input means nothing to me since you
    have no clue about most things. You simply someone who is no the
    internet and found folks who will talk to you. Me no longer
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 10:28:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a
    clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know
    better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist
    should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE" >>
    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at
    17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If
    you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for
    drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. YourCOd only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on
    real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still
    be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road
    miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year?

    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at
    the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I donrCOt care who wins as IrCOm neither, itrCOs clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that
    you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my READING them off of the Garmin.

    YourCOre the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not thinking rCLooh that looks wrong I should investigate?rCY But taking it as fact as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin
    and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.

    Roger Merriman



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 06:37:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 15 Jul 2026 10:28:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know
    better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE" >>>
    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at
    17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If
    you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to
    even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for >drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. YouAd only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on
    real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a >resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still
    be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that >would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling
    resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road
    miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year?

    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at >the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I donAt care who wins as >IAm neither, itAs clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my >commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that
    you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my
    READING them off of the Garmin.

    YouAre the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not >thinking oooh that looks wrong I should investigate?o But taking it as fact >as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin
    and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.

    Roger Merriman



    I generate enough power to move 200/202 lb me and 40/45 lb Catrake and
    stuff at 11/12 MPH abg on mostly flat asphalt. I don't care how many
    watts that is.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 06:39:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/14/2026 4:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 17:24:36 2026 Mark J cleary-a wrote:
    On 7/12/2026 3:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jul 10 17:00:33 2026 AMuzi-a wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 4:57 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
    On 7/10/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 22:11:49 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jul 9 15:17:35 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/9/2026 3:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 8 12:43:27 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the
    position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things? >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my
    ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports
    average power of 151
    watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is
    nothing more than
    a cup of coffee for him.

    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing >>>>>>>>>>>>> and programming
    state of the art electronic devices from medical
    devices used to end
    the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to
    automate
    measuring your gas and electricity usage he believes >>>>>>>>>>>>> that without any
    training and experience he knows more about
    technology than I do.

    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?
    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from
    someone who has
    never told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these
    things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and
    he knows it. So
    why is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.


    215lb rider cycling 11mph for 27 miles is well under 450 >>>>>>>>>>>> calories, not 1700.

    https://traincalc.com/calculators/calories-burned-
    cycling




    Andrew, as I said, take your argument to Garmin. But
    today I was
    ridintg pretty slow and the caculator you cited shows
    my calories as
    1552. Now the ride speed was a little off but the
    Garmin for today's
    ride show 1228. For Tuesday's ride when I was feeling
    strong and
    pushing pretty hard into a hard headwind Garmin shows
    1538. So I would
    say that the calculator you cited and the Garmin are
    in very close agreement.

    The power onmy power meter is showing ery low and it
    still showed 107
    watts of average power (much lower than normal) and a
    149 watts of
    normalized power. I have no idea how hard Deacon Mark
    rides but I have
    350 feet of climbing and hslf of it is about 5% and
    the other half is
    7%. Both ways I am going as fast as
    I can which is about 10 mph. (today I was slower but
    still working hard.).


    I don't know.

    But I learned from Seattle Sutton that either your calorie >>>>>>>>>> intake numbers are wrong or your power expended numbers
    are
    wrong or your self described "pot gut" has gone away
    already.




    I don'tm know who Swrrle Surrin is but I would cetainly
    hesitate to
    listen to anyone about czaloriexs in and calories out
    since you have to
    actually weigh food portions even to make a ROUGH guess
    as to the caloric
    contents. Not to mention that some foods block
    absorbtion of others. I
    have just started tp feel my yearly weight lose from
    mileage. And though
    my mileage so far this year is over 2500 it is almost
    entirely flat. But
    I suppose I make up for that by riding z lot harder than
    11 mph average
    might indicate. And nine of the bike trails are even
    close to smooth.

    If the data is showing one thing ie that your producing a
    high level of
    power for age, and are burning lots of calories.

    But your weight is static and are averaging 11mph on the
    flat then the data
    cannot be correct. I haven?t a clue what you?ve done you
    need to look at
    your setup.




    I just used Andrew's calory calculator to double check my
    Garmin numbers and they agreed As for watts, you have no
    idea of how many watts it takes to ride my bike into
    aheadwind. Do you have a power meter on your bike? Po3wer
    is consumed over thelength of the ride which is 3 times
    the length of your ride. Where are you getting your ideas
    from?

    I have a power meter on bike indoors. THis morning I rode 33
    miles in 2 hours and 4 minutes 15.9 MPH. My watts were 115
    output. My average HR was 111 bpm and I burned 834 calories.
    I think that is in the ball park. If you use my average
    heart rate, weight, and age it gives about 130 more
    calories. I betting on the power meter.
    Deacon Mark

    Mr Kunich earlier rode 80% of that at 70% of your speed and
    claimed 1700 calories expended.




    Deacon Mark's power meter is NOT counting road surfaces and wind
    friction. These add greatly to power consumption. And my lung damage
    causes a much higher breahing rate and higher heart rate than people
    without such damage. My power meter showed that I used 350 Watts
    every 2 minutes. I rode for 145 minutes.

    Didn't Deacon Mark give you a pretty high power use ON A TRAINER?
    That certaibly is a great deal lower than riding on asphalt and wind,
    Power is power makes no difference where you are inside or outside the
    cranks and meter depending on you power meter all work same way. You did >>> not in anyway produce 350 watts of power every two minutes. Silliness
    really





    Mark, you are correct. But trainers do no have road friction,
    aerodynamic drag and wind added into the actual power necessary to
    give you a speed.


    As usual, tom is wrong

    Road friction: https://zwiftinsider.com/crr/

    Road Crr

    Brick .0055
    Cobbles .0065
    Dirt .016
    Grass .025
    Gravel .012
    Ice/Snow .0055
    Pavement .004
    Sand .004
    Wood .0065

    Wind and CdA: https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-affects-speed-in-zwift/

    " Zwift uses your height in its equations to calculate CdA, which is a measurement of how much resistance your body gives to the air as you
    ride. Just like outdoors where aero is everything, Zwift calculates
    taller riders as offering more wind resistance."

    wind - https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/31339672913037-TrainingPeaks-Virtual-Wind-and-Weather

    "Wind speed and direction can be found within the upper-right map
    window...."
    "The wind speed will change and can gust"
    "If you ride to the front of the group in a headwind, yourCOll feel it."

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 06:43:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a
    clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know
    better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE" >>>
    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at
    17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If
    you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to
    even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle.

    As usual, tom is wrong,
    https://wattscalculator.com/ uses everything you've added as variables.

    You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on
    real roads and real climbs.

    None of that means you have a clue about the science of cycling.
    Everything you claim is wrong, every problem you have is of your own making.





    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 07:34:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/15/2026 5:37 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On 15 Jul 2026 10:28:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >>> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >>> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >>> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for
    drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. YourCOd only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent >>> most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >>> real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a
    resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still >> be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that >> would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling
    resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road
    miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year? >>>
    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at >> the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I donrCOt care who wins as >> IrCOm neither, itrCOs clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my
    commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that >>> you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my
    READING them off of the Garmin.

    YourCOre the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not
    thinking rCLooh that looks wrong I should investigate?rCY But taking it as fact
    as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin >>> and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.

    Roger Merriman



    I generate enough power to move 200/202 lb me and 40/45 lb Catrake and
    stuff at 11/12 MPH abg on mostly flat asphalt. I don't care how many
    watts that is.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    +1

    As the apocryphal Buddhist monk didn't say, "I ride my bike
    to ride my bike."
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Jul 15 14:36:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On 15 Jul 2026 10:28:14 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed >>>> against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >>> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >>> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >>> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for
    drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. You-Ad only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent >>> most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >>> real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a
    resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still >> be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that >> would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling
    resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road
    miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year? >>>
    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at >> the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I don-At care who wins as >> I-Am neither, it-As clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my
    commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that >>> you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my
    READING them off of the Garmin.

    You-Are the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not
    thinking -oooh that looks wrong I should investigate?-o But taking it as fact
    as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin >>> and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.

    Roger Merriman



    I generate enough power to move 200/202 lb me and 40/45 lb Catrake and
    stuff at 11/12 MPH abg on mostly flat asphalt. I don't care how many
    watts that is.

    Likewise IrCOm someone who gets fit as byproduct of cycling, which for me is mostly a leisure activity, clearly itrCOs a utility as well.

    This said power meters are generally what folks use to measure fitness, and generally are technology so I have some interest even if none to own or
    use!


    Plus mates with them so I do know what the figures do roughly work out too, hence knowing Toms are essentially fantasy.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 18:13:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Jul 14 10:20:38 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 >>>> watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming >>>> state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end >>>> the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before? My Garmin reads calories far more accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more accurately than your wild beliefs. These are hard facts while even Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures and not yours. Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?

    With your calorie intake/expenditure and power numbers,
    you're at risk of severe weight loss and/or malnutrition.
    You're WAY off. It would take me 6 months to take off 20 lbs when I was riding 30 miles or so and 3,300 feet of climbing at leat once a week and nearly that another Thursday Ride. Plus a Saturday and Sunday ride. These rides were in groups riding as hard as I could go. I could tell from my climbing as the weight would finally go away. At 190 lbs it would swtop reducing as intake balanced output.
    Remember when Liebermann was arguing that no one 6'4" could weigh as little as 190 lbs?.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 18:23:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Wed Jul 15 10:28:14 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a
    clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know
    better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would
    probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at
    17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. You?d only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still
    be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year?

    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I don?t care who wins as I?m neither, it?s clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my READING them off of the Garmin.

    You?re the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not thinking ?ooh that looks wrong I should investigate?? But taking it as fact as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.
    Roger, your suppositions don't meet reality. Please stop making guesses based on nothing at all until you have a power meter installed on your bike and you have actually used one. All of the calculators have been pretty close to my actual Garmin numbers. My power meter needs new batteries and it still reads higher than your numbers based entirely on your imagination.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 20:07:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Wed Jul 15 10:28:14 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed >>>> against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer >>>>>> efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >>> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >>> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >>> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    There are many models out there, that absolutely will be on the money for
    drag be that wind ie aero or resistance drag, none are going to get
    anywhere near 130watts for a 215lb rider, at 10/11 mph even with a
    headwind. You?d only be doing that if climbing a hill.

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle. You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent >>> most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >>> real roads and real climbs.

    None of those will add that much! Remember a static trainer will have a
    resistance trainer, and will be able to measure the torque and thus the
    power out of the rider, none of this will get you to 130/150 it will still >> be 50/60 watts

    If you really are putting out 130 watts you best get up Cull Canyon as that >> would give you a healthy PR by knocking number of minutes off your best
    time.

    Roger is a commuter who tells us that he puts in 11 miles a day. Or
    perhaps he means 22 miles round trip. All this at commuter speeds of 10
    mpm on an MTB which, with semiknobbies would have twice the rolling
    resistance of my 28's. If he meant 11 miles per day that is 1,500 road
    miles he has put in this year. How many road miles do you have this year? >>>
    I rarely ride just road rides might do one today as going to see friends at >> the pub to watch England vs Argentina which while I don?t care who wins as >> I?m neither, it?s clearly significant and should be fun!

    I only work twice a week so my leisure riding tends to be more than my
    commuting. Will be less miles but higher elevation.

    I'm NOT trying to put you one the spot, I'm trying to impress on you that >>> you have no information and are simply making numbers up rather than my
    READING them off of the Garmin.

    You?re the one just reading the data of your Garmin, and apparently not
    thinking ?ooh that looks wrong I should investigate?? But taking it as fact >> as it sounds good for your ego.

    Your power calculator using estmated speeds comes within 6% of the Garin >>> and Andrews calory calculator comes in the same as my Garmin. Where are
    you getting your numbers from? Riding a trainer?


    Try stuff like <https://bikecalculator.com> than google or chatGPT.




    Roger, your suppositions don't meet reality. Please stop making guesses
    based on nothing at all until you have a power meter installed on your
    bike and you have actually used one. All of the calculators have been
    pretty close to my actual Garmin numbers. My power meter needs new
    batteries and it still reads higher than your numbers based entirely on your imagination.

    I have number of friends who use them, hence I know your number are way
    out, to hit 130watts you need to be holding 10/11mph up the canyon you occasionally ride, thatrCOs what 130 watts is, not 11 mph on the flat which
    is 60 watts

    https://wattscalculator.com

    Or others or you know chat to others with power meters note no one here
    with them or any experience of them is supporting you.

    Roger Merriman


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 13:51:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 18:13:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Remember when Liebermann was arguing that no one 6'4" could weigh as little as 190 lbs?.

    I don't recall saying such a thing. Do you have a link to such a
    posting in RBT?

    However, I did mention in: <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/8ftji7STU0w/m/T8G8ie3rAgAJ> that you might be over the recommended 206 lb (95kg) weight limit for
    your Ridley Helium bicycle. Now that you've mentioned it, I seem to
    recall you claimed that you are 5ft 6in in altitude, 82 years old, and
    weigh 220 lbs (100 kg). Are you really riding this bicycle in an
    unsafe manner?

    Drivel: I just had another cord of firewood delivered and was taking
    a break from stacking the pile. It's 79F (26.1C) outside, so I'm
    taking frequent breaks. Much as I enjoy pointing out your compulsive
    errors, I need to stack firewood in the heat. Photos as I blunder
    forward:
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/79sMhdkyVFSNSa9m9>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 16:25:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/16/2026 3:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 18:13:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Remember when Liebermann was arguing that no one 6'4" could weigh as little as 190 lbs?.

    I don't recall saying such a thing. Do you have a link to such a
    posting in RBT?

    However, I did mention in: <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/8ftji7STU0w/m/T8G8ie3rAgAJ> that you might be over the recommended 206 lb (95kg) weight limit for
    your Ridley Helium bicycle. Now that you've mentioned it, I seem to
    recall you claimed that you are 5ft 6in in altitude, 82 years old, and
    weigh 220 lbs (100 kg). Are you really riding this bicycle in an
    unsafe manner?

    Drivel: I just had another cord of firewood delivered and was taking
    a break from stacking the pile. It's 79F (26.1C) outside, so I'm
    taking frequent breaks. Much as I enjoy pointing out your compulsive
    errors, I need to stack firewood in the heat. Photos as I blunder
    forward:
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/79sMhdkyVFSNSa9m9>

    Jeff if I recall you seem to be out in the boonies a bit even though
    within a close hop to a huge metropolis. Odd but you prepare for not
    having things that are hard to get in your rural area?
    --
    Deacon Mark
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jul 16 15:32:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 16:25:40 -0500, Mark J cleary
    <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 7/16/2026 3:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 18:13:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Remember when Liebermann was arguing that no one 6'4" could weigh as little as 190 lbs?.

    I don't recall saying such a thing. Do you have a link to such a
    posting in RBT?

    However, I did mention in:
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/8ftji7STU0w/m/T8G8ie3rAgAJ> >> that you might be over the recommended 206 lb (95kg) weight limit for
    your Ridley Helium bicycle. Now that you've mentioned it, I seem to
    recall you claimed that you are 5ft 6in in altitude, 82 years old, and
    weigh 220 lbs (100 kg). Are you really riding this bicycle in an
    unsafe manner?

    Drivel: I just had another cord of firewood delivered and was taking
    a break from stacking the pile. It's 79F (26.1C) outside, so I'm
    taking frequent breaks. Much as I enjoy pointing out your compulsive
    errors, I need to stack firewood in the heat. Photos as I blunder
    forward:
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/79sMhdkyVFSNSa9m9>

    Jeff if I recall you seem to be out in the boonies a bit even though
    within a close hop to a huge metropolis. Odd but you prepare for not
    having things that are hard to get in your rural area?

    Yes. You're correct that my palatial house is in the "boonies", is
    fairly close to civilization (Silicon Valley = 25 miles, Santa Cruz =
    10 miles), and that I'm somewhat into emergency services (ham radio,
    scanners, ARES, alternative energy, etc). I am a very light weight
    prepper. I'm familiar with the technologies and practices, but do not subscribe to the cult of survivalism, inevitable doom, or end of the
    world as we know it. In other words, I don't panic.

    I've been heating my house with a wood burner since I bought the house
    in 1974(?). The house came with a word burning pot belly stove, which
    I soon replaces with a proper air tight model. <https://photos.app.goo.gl/ym58d9xVsfKFki7t8> <https://photos.app.goo.gl/akvXf9MyYNzpYpY77>
    Some of the welds have cracked. I have a flux welder: <https://www.harborfreight.com/easy-flux-125-amp-welder-57861.html>
    and plan to repair the effects of 50+ years of service.

    There are many reasons why I elected to retain the wood heater. I
    don't want to itemize or explain them right now. (I'm waiting for the
    sun to move behind some trees so I can go back to stacking wood). Ask
    me (later) if you want details.

    As for things being scarce in an emergency, it happens and is
    difficult to predict. It's also impossible to be fully prepared for
    all possible disasters. I've limited my survival list to only those
    items I can afford and are genuine problems worth solving. That would
    be electricity (generator), winter heating (wood burner), cooking
    (wood burner), tea (wood burner), computers (generator), and so on.

    The sun is now behind the tree line. Back to stacking firewood.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jul 17 15:45:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Wed Jul 15 06:43:12 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed
    against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages.
    Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer
    efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle.

    As usual, tom is wrong,
    https://wattscalculator.com/ uses everything you've added as variable

    You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're
    telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >> real roads and real climbs.

    None of that means you have a clue about the science of cycling.
    Everything you claim is wrong, every problem you have is of your own making.
    Why do you say things that aren't true? That calculator has 5 mph speed 900 feet of climbing and 0 windspeed. Inserting 14 mph actual rolling speed changes the power to 90 watts and putting in just 10 mph wind more than doubles the power to 184 watts. Why did you say that modern power meters are as good as labratory instrumenbts and then deny the Garman readings?
    My 144 watt readings was ALREADY after the Garmin gave me a "low battery" warning, so it was already reading low. The calculstor that you just quoted corrected for actual ground and wind speed would siill read a little low because of the actual climb.
    I've pretty much had enough of arguing with you people that none of whom actually ride with a power meter but are willing to deny the readings. I would like to know WHY? Roger bullshits us about riding with some fast guys when his riding is almost ewntirely commuting on an MTB. He still hasn't made it clear whether his commute is 11 or 22 miles round trip. How in the hell could he keep up with "fast guys" on road bikes with an MTB. Mountain bikes started HERE and I owned everything from unsuspended MTBS to hardtails to full suspention 29ers. Who in the hell does he think he's kidding? A good gravel bike would drop a hardtail in 30 feet And can just barely keep up with road bikes.
    Since I started riding again in 2013 I have kept fairly close track of my weight since I started out drastically underweight and very much out of shape. So I'm quite familiar with weight and calories being burned. So I'm quite sure that Andrew doesn't have a clear understanding of calories in and calories out otherwise how could I put all my lost weight back on while riding so much? In the last six months I have ridden mostly steel bikes, put in almost 3,000 miles and lost 5 lbs while having two meals a day. And breakfast is usually cereal.
    I can only imagine that the people talking this nonsense do not really ride anywhere as hard and they claim. I sm not talkiing about Deasopn Mark since he honesty reposted the power he is producing. He just not understand that riding on the road into wind doubles the power necessary for any reasonable speed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark J cleary@mcleary08@comcast.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jul 17 12:45:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/17/2026 10:45 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 15 06:43:12 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>>>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed >>>>> against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>>>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>>>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages. >>>>>>> Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer
    efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >>>> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >>>> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >>>> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle.

    As usual, tom is wrong,
    https://wattscalculator.com/ uses everything you've added as variable

    You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're >>>> telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >>>> real roads and real climbs.

    None of that means you have a clue about the science of cycling.
    Everything you claim is wrong, every problem you have is of your own making.




    Why do you say things that aren't true? That calculator has 5 mph speed 900 feet of climbing and 0 windspeed. Inserting 14 mph actual rolling speed changes the power to 90 watts and putting in just 10 mph wind more than doubles the power to 184 watts. Why did you say that modern power meters are as good as labratory instrumenbts and then deny the Garman readings?

    My 144 watt readings was ALREADY after the Garmin gave me a "low battery" warning, so it was already reading low. The calculstor that you just quoted corrected for actual ground and wind speed would siill read a little low because of the actual climb.

    I've pretty much had enough of arguing with you people that none of whom actually ride with a power meter but are willing to deny the readings. I would like to know WHY? Roger bullshits us about riding with some fast guys when his riding is almost ewntirely commuting on an MTB. He still hasn't made it clear whether his commute is 11 or 22 miles round trip. How in the hell could he keep up with "fast guys" on road bikes with an MTB. Mountain bikes started HERE and I owned everything from unsuspended MTBS to hardtails to full suspention 29ers. Who in the hell does he think he's kidding? A good gravel bike would drop a hardtail in 30 feet And can just barely keep up with road bikes.

    Since I started riding again in 2013 I have kept fairly close track of my weight since I started out drastically underweight and very much out of shape. So I'm quite familiar with weight and calories being burned. So I'm quite sure that Andrew doesn't have a clear understanding of calories in and calories out otherwise how could I put all my lost weight back on while riding so much? In the last six months I have ridden mostly steel bikes, put in almost 3,000 miles and lost 5 lbs while having two meals a day. And breakfast is usually cereal.

    I can only imagine that the people talking this nonsense do not really ride anywhere as hard and they claim. I sm not talkiing about Deasopn Mark since he honesty reposted the power he is producing. He just not understand that riding on the road into wind doubles the power necessary for any reasonable speed.
    This is absolutely true because riding inside I can ride faster at the
    given power. Today inside I road at 16.2 mph to produce 121 watts for
    the 2 hours. If I had road outside on a similar flat course I would
    probably not average the same speed but the power would be the same.
    This is not always true though because you could be riding into a huge headwind and producing lots of power but not going fast. THe same as a tailwind riding with it and getting much faster at the same power level.
    Power meters read the torque on the pedal or cranks or hub. The torque
    changes given the conditions. Riding inside in the free ride mode only
    the tension of the direct drive trainer power is very even if you simply
    stay at it. Outside if you are going up the ALPS for miles the power is massive high. Then on the descend you can be doing 40 plus MPH and
    producing exactly zero power, in fact on the descend power may be almost
    gone nothing for a long time if you coast and many times that is the
    only option,
    --
    Deacon Mark
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jul 17 19:28:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Wed Jul 15 06:43:12 2026 zen cycle wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Roger, you have power production all wrong. All you have to do is look it up on
    Google.

    "
    Normal power output on a bicycle typically ranges from 50 to 300 watts. >>>>>>> Average Power Output
    Recreational Cyclists: Generally sustain around 150 to 250 watts on flat terrain.

    Complete horseshit. I don't know what question you asked AI, but this a >>>>> clear example that AI is wrong, and you of all people who have railed >>>>> against AI since you started lying about programming in AI should know >>>>> better.

    https://wattscalculator.com/

    or any power calculator you choose. At 175 pounds a recreational cyclist >>>>> should maintain ~19 mph on flat ground @ 150 watts. That's a big fat "NOPE"

    Competitive Amateurs: Often produce between 250 to 350 watts.
    Professional Cyclists: Can reach 400 to 500+ watts during sustained efforts.
    Factors Influencing Power Output
    Fitness Level: More trained cyclists can sustain higher wattages. >>>>>>> Body Weight: Power-to-weight ratio is crucial, often measured in watts per kg.
    Duration of Effort: Short bursts can yield higher wattages, while longer
    efforts typically see lower sustained outputs.
    "

    I am a recreational cyclist now. Though up to 5 years ago you would >>>>>>> probably rate me as a competitive amateur.

    No, we wouldn't. Your numbers never reached that level.




    What is the aeodynamic drag of a 60 cm Ridley Helium with Bora wheels at >>>> 17 mph? What is the additional drag of a 6'4" man riding on the tops? If >>>> you cannot answer that perhaqps you can suggest how you can even begin to >>>> even suggest how much power I'm generating while riding 14 mph into a 10 mph headwind?

    Now add Gatorskin tires. Then add the drag of a saddlepack and water
    bottle.

    As usual, tom is wrong,
    https://wattscalculator.com/ uses everything you've added as variable

    You seem to know a whole lot about riding for someone that spent
    most of the last 6 months on a trainer. With no knowledge at all you're >>>> telling me how I ride when I'm closing in on 3,000 miles for the year on >>>> real roads and real climbs.

    None of that means you have a clue about the science of cycling.
    Everything you claim is wrong, every problem you have is of your own making.




    Why do you say things that aren't true? That calculator has 5 mph speed
    900 feet of climbing and 0 windspeed. Inserting 14 mph actual rolling
    speed changes the power to 90 watts and putting in just 10 mph wind more
    than doubles the power to 184 watts. Why did you say that modern power
    meters are as good as labratory instrumenbts and then deny the Garman readings?

    My 144 watt readings was ALREADY after the Garmin gave me a "low battery" warning, so it was already reading low. The calculstor that you just
    quoted corrected for actual ground and wind speed would siill read a
    little low because of the actual climb.


    IrCOd note that your last ride shows 50watts <https://www.strava.com/activities/19339927661> and 400 calories burned
    which is absolutely what we said it should be.

    I and others have direct or indirect experience with powermeters personally mates have them or some do and so IrCOm aware of the sorts of power figures that are normal for a given sort of ride.

    I've pretty much had enough of arguing with you people that none of whom actually ride with a power meter but are willing to deny the readings. I would like to know WHY? Roger bullshits us about riding with some fast
    guys when his riding is almost ewntirely commuting on an MTB. He still
    hasn't made it clear whether his commute is 11 or 22 miles round trip.
    How in the hell could he keep up with "fast guys" on road bikes with an
    MTB. Mountain bikes started HERE and I owned everything from unsuspended
    MTBS to hardtails to full suspention 29ers. Who in the hell does he think he's kidding? A good gravel bike would drop a hardtail in 30 feet And can just barely keep up with road bikes.

    MTB did start near you, but your posts donrCOt suggest that your remotely familiar with MTBrCOs

    My commuting as I work part time, with generally a Gravel ride at least
    once a week, which will be around the same total mileage as the commute mileage, IrCOm generally able to keep up with the fast chaps off road as well that my technique doing the heavy lifting!

    IrCOm not keeping up with the fast guys on the old commute MTB but thatrCOs not the point of that bike, itrCOs a nice comfortable ride at a leisurely 11mph, the roadie allows me to commute slightly faster 12/14mph and is a more comfortable bike on bigger faster roads, and is easier on training and
    other times I need to get into central London.

    Since I started riding again in 2013 I have kept fairly close track of my weight since I started out drastically underweight and very much out of shape. So I'm quite familiar with weight and calories being burned. So
    I'm quite sure that Andrew doesn't have a clear understanding of calories
    in and calories out otherwise how could I put all my lost weight back on while riding so much? In the last six months I have ridden mostly steel bikes, put in almost 3,000 miles and lost 5 lbs while having two meals a
    day. And breakfast is usually cereal.

    IrCOm very sure Andrew being the well read man he is, is well aware of calories, a pound a month is sensible slow weight loss, not what yourCOd
    expect if you where really burning the calories your quoting, again this is linked to the setup of the power meter.

    I can only imagine that the people talking this nonsense do not really
    ride anywhere as hard and they claim. I sm not talkiing about Deasopn
    Mark since he honesty reposted the power he is producing. He just not understand that riding on the road into wind doubles the power necessary
    for any reasonable speed.

    Not unless itrCOs a constant and strong wind, which yourCOre not getting hence the 50 watts output.

    Roger Merriman

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  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Jul 18 09:29:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/17/2026 10:45 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Wed Jul 15 06:43:12 2026 zen cycle-a wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Jul 13 05:21:22 2026 zen cycle-a wrote:

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:


    Why do you say things that aren't true?

    You first....

    That calculator has 5 mph
    speed 900 feet of climbing and 0 windspeed.

    default values....so?

    Inserting 14 mph actual
    rolling speed changes the power to 90 watts and putting in just 10 mph
    wind more than doubles the power to 184 watts.

    Yes, that's about right. Riding into a ten mph head wind dramatically increases the power required to maintain speed. When you input a 10 MPH
    head wind at 14 mph road speed, it's roughly equivalent to riding about
    19 MPH with no headwind. You can enter those numbers yourself.

    Why did you say that
    modern power meters are as good as labratory instrumenbts and then
    deny the Garman readings?

    Your garmin can only be as accurate as the data it receives, part of
    which is the data you enter when you set it up - which knowing you is
    likely wrong.


    My 144 watt readings was ALREADY after the Garmin gave me a "low
    battery" warning, so it was already reading low.

    battery level is completely irrelevant - or didn't you know that?

    The calculstor that
    you just quoted corrected for actual ground and wind speed would siill
    read a little low because of the actual climb.

    Did you try entering the hill data into the calculator? Obviously not....


    I've pretty much had enough of arguing with you people that none of
    whom actually ride with a power meter but are willing to deny the
    readings.

    I've ridden with a couple of bike power meters, my longest extent was
    the Polar Power Pod, which calculated power based in-part using chain defelction. Yes, it was pretty accurate, never more than a few watts off
    from a calibrated Computrainer. I don't have bike mounted one now, but everything indoor is power-based from my Wahoo Kickr. REgardless or your opinion, power is in fact power regardless of whether it's indoor or
    outdoor.

    I would like to know WHY?

    False first premise negates the legitimacy of that question, but You've
    never used any indoor virtual tools at all, yet you keep telling
    everyone here how it works, and you're always wrong (rolling resistance
    from tire width and road surface as well as head winds are indeed
    calculated). I would like to know why?

    Roger bullshits us about riding
    with some fast guys when his riding is almost ewntirely commuting on
    an MTB. He still hasn't made it clear whether his commute is 11 or 22
    miles round trip. How in the hell could he keep up with "fast guys" on
    road bikes with an MTB.

    Easily. I know of quite a few local riders who would go out with an MTB
    on slicks and stay with a 20+ mph group. An MTB with a 26" slick wheel
    and a top gearing of 44x11 at a cadence of 100 is close to 30 MPH.

    Mountain bikes started HERE and I owned
    everything from unsuspended MTBS to hardtails to full suspention
    29ers.

    Complete bullshit. You had a mountain bike that you crashed several
    times and complained that Jobst's rides were too hard. Your experience
    with MTBs is only slightly more than your experience with virtual cycling.

    Who in the hell does he think he's kidding? A good gravel bike
    would drop a hardtail in 30 feet And can just barely keep up with road
    bikes.

    hey....dumbass....it ain't the bike.


    Since I started riding again in 2013 I have kept fairly close track of
    my weight since I started out drastically underweight and very much
    out of shape. So I'm quite familiar with weight and calories being
    burned. So I'm quite sure that Andrew doesn't have a clear
    understanding of calories in and calories out otherwise how could I
    put all my lost weight back on while riding so much?

    from eating more calories than you expend.

    In the last six
    months I have ridden mostly steel bikes, put in almost 3,000 miles and
    lost 5 lbs while having two meals a day. And breakfast is usually cereal.

    I can only imagine that the people talking this nonsense do not really
    ride anywhere as hard and they claim. I sm not talkiing about Deasopn
    Mark since he honesty reposted the power he is producing. He just not
    understand that riding on the road into wind doubles the power
    necessary for any reasonable speed.

    I'm pretty sure he understands that better than you.


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  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sun Jul 19 10:11:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 7/14/2026 10:02 AM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Sun Jul 12 07:53:13 2026 zen cycle-a wrote:
    On 7/8/2026 1:22 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:

    On 7/8/2026 12:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    Why do you suppose that Roger has taken over the position of
    Liebermann and wants to say the most curious things?

    Because you're always wrong.

    My Garmin tells me that my activity calories for my ride using my
    heart rate monitor and power meter that reports average power of 151 >>>>> watts and average normalized power of 183 watts is nothing more than a >>>>> cup of coffee for him.

    11 mph on relatively flat ground is about 56 watts. If you were riding
    at 150 watts you would have been riding at 17 mph.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

    So, not sure where you came up with 151 - maybe over a short section of
    the ride - but you certainly didn't do that for over 2 hours.

    I suggest you have your weight incorrect. My numbers between Garmin,
    Strava, and the online calculators all align, and my last commute was
    was about an hour, I averaged just over 20 MPH for ~ 190 watts and just
    under 600 calories.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/19255329684.

    You're claiming you burned as many calories per hour as I did, Sorry,
    that doesn't fly.


    Despite the fact that I have spent my life designing and programming >>>>> state of the art electronic devices from medical devices used to end >>>>> the AIDS epidemic, save lives in operating rooms to automate measuring >>>>> your gas and electricity usage

    Too bad none of that is true.

    he believes that without any training
    and experience he knows more about technology than I do.

    We don't know what Rogers training is, but I'd believe him over you
    any day.


    What next? He can build bikes better than I can?

    The vast majority of members in this forum can build bikes better
    than you.

    Drive cars faster
    than me (I drive the speed limit}? All this from someone who has never >>>>> told us what his qualifications are.

    He may very well be qualified to say some of these things but his
    comments about calories are entirely incorrect and he knows it. So why >>>>> is he saying them? Straighten up Roger.

    shut the fuck up, tommy




    Haven't we been through this before?

    Yes, and you're still wrong.

    My Garmin reads calories far more
    accurate thanyour guessing and my power meter measures power more
    accurately than your wild beliefs.

    Funny, since my "wild guesses" are based on the information that Garmin publishes

    These are hard facts while even
    Andrew's sites that calculate calories and power agree with my figures
    and not yours.

    Andrews site is ballpark to your caloric claims, but it doesn't mention anything about power, and every power calculator disagrees with your
    claims.

    Is there some reason you have to disagree with computers?

    I don't. In the words of Ken Jennings "I, for one, welcome our new
    computer overlords". To reiterate, every power calculator (on computers) disagrees with your claims. I believe them over you.


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