• =?UTF-8?B?T24gdGhlIHN1YmplY3Qgb2YgSGVsbWV0cyBhZ2Fpbg==?=

    From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Apr 18 18:59:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the Bontrager Wavecell helmet.
    The use for a helmet is rare and for good drivers so is the use of seat belts. But that is the purpose of safety devices to be useful only upon very rare occassions and then to be thankful that they are being used.
    When Bontrager released those helmets it was only normal to assume that he had developed them. Dumbass Liebermann immediate had to correct my "lie" by showing that they had been developed by a medicaol firm who had no idea of how to market them and approached Trek who handed it off to Bontrager.
    For my part I cannot see any difference in Bontrager employing a medical firm to develope a safer helmet design and the medical firm contacting him. These helmets are now available and should at least be considered.
    Frank, unfortunately, has left here because he didn't like being told that there is a rather large difference in being a real engineer and teach the subject. He was also violently anti-helmet. No amount of telling him that it is his health and he can do with it as he likes was enough. The subject was closed: YOU should not even think of wearing a helmet.If you wore a helmet, you were teaching non and new riders to be afraid of riding.
    I don't know about you but around here a healthy fear of riding increases the survival rates. That fear causes me to follow all of the laws pertaining to the use of the road. I do have to be very watchful of those driving expensive foreign cars since they appear to believe that they own the roads. They drive very fast and usually quite carelessly.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wolfgang Strobl@news51@mystrobl.de to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.
    --
    Wir danken f|+r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Apr 20 19:06:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.
    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?
    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.
    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Apr 20 13:27:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 19:06:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.

    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.

    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs.

    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016). <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/> (July 10, 2016) <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016). <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
    "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    (date unknown)

    I did searched all the above articles for the word "helmet" and found
    nothing.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Apr 20 17:05:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    I believe Mr Strobl's point was that about 50,000 USAians
    die from falls every year but only a few hundred from
    bicycle-related crashes.

    If a helmet is sensible for cycling, it's sensible for
    stairs and showers.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Apr 20 17:06:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    p.s. the numbers:
    https://statbase.org/data/usa-mortality-by-cause/

    https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/bicycle-deaths/

    about 1300 bicycle related deaths
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 10:21:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold
    like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure,
    not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is
    permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40
    breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both
    of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine
    is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and
    I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and
    my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you
    it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being
    prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny
    looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    I believe Mr Strobl's point was that about 50,000 USAians
    die from falls every year but only a few hundred from
    bicycle-related crashes.

    If a helmet is sensible for cycling, it's sensible for
    stairs and showers.

    Indeed the idea that a bike helmet (bicycle) itrCOs going to provide
    meaningful protection or even measurable protection from motor traffic believable. Even motorcycle helmet and the body armour seems not prevent
    them having awful rates even within big cities where speeds etc are much
    lower.

    IrCOd note at least one of my bikes is carbon and fork, seems thus far
    robust, as do mates bikes one of whom on the the bikes maiden ride was
    chasing his friend and managed to crash over a fire gate, bar a scratch
    both rider and bike are fine!

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Catrike Ryder@Soloman@old.bikers.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 06:35:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 21 Apr 2026 10:21:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold
    like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure,
    not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is
    permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40
    breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both
    of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine
    is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and
    I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and
    my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you >>> it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being
    prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny
    looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    I believe Mr Strobl's point was that about 50,000 USAians
    die from falls every year but only a few hundred from
    bicycle-related crashes.

    If a helmet is sensible for cycling, it's sensible for
    stairs and showers.

    Indeed the idea that a bike helmet (bicycle) itAs going to provide
    meaningful protection or even measurable protection from motor traffic >believable. Even motorcycle helmet and the body armour seems not prevent
    them having awful rates even within big cities where speeds etc are much >lower.

    IAd note at least one of my bikes is carbon and fork, seems thus far
    robust, as do mates bikes one of whom on the the bikes maiden ride was >chasing his friend and managed to crash over a fire gate, bar a scratch
    both rider and bike are fine!

    Roger Merriman

    Seems to me that a person riding a two-wheel bicycle in the drop bar
    position with their head out over the front wheel might get some
    protection from a helmet if they were to run into a bus, a truck, a
    brick wall, or similar.

    I'm not planning on doing any of those things, so......

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 14:26:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
    On 21 Apr 2026 10:21:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold >>>>>> like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure,
    not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is
    permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40
    breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both >>>> of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine >>>> is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and >>>> I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and >>>> my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you >>>> it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being
    prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny
    looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    I believe Mr Strobl's point was that about 50,000 USAians
    die from falls every year but only a few hundred from
    bicycle-related crashes.

    If a helmet is sensible for cycling, it's sensible for
    stairs and showers.

    Indeed the idea that a bike helmet (bicycle) it-As going to provide
    meaningful protection or even measurable protection from motor traffic
    believable. Even motorcycle helmet and the body armour seems not prevent
    them having awful rates even within big cities where speeds etc are much
    lower.

    I-Ad note at least one of my bikes is carbon and fork, seems thus far
    robust, as do mates bikes one of whom on the the bikes maiden ride was
    chasing his friend and managed to crash over a fire gate, bar a scratch
    both rider and bike are fine!

    Roger Merriman

    Seems to me that a person riding a two-wheel bicycle in the drop bar
    position with their head out over the front wheel might get some
    protection from a helmet if they were to run into a bus, a truck, a
    brick wall, or similar.

    Considering that a helmet protection is as a crumple zone, and a very thin
    one at that. ItrCOs going to struggle to meaningful reduce impact speed thatrCOs why air bag technology is repeated looked at as it absolutely can provide more protection for that reason in that it does have more time due
    to the distance between the contact point and head is quite a bit bigger
    and thus has more time, to reduce the impact speed which is what crumple
    zone are for.

    Dockless ride bikes are almost always ridden without helmets bar the
    occasional keen rider, the risks reported seem to be more down to the bikes weight and ungainly handling which can catch folks out, the older lime
    bikes are apparently rCLleg breakersrCY for that reason.

    Despite the generally fairly casual riding style IrCOm not aware of such
    bikes having worse rates than other types of london or other large city commuters/utility cyclists, who are much more likely to be wearing a
    helmet. Which is always the thing, helmets perform well in controlled environments, but not in population levels which to the best of my
    knowledge have shown no change in rates and outcomes.

    Let alone that cycling is generally a safe activity, are exceptions such as Down Hill MTBing where folks even weekend warrior having a good time than getting good times, have full face, body armour, knee pads etc.

    Which is clearly rather more risky!

    I'm not planning on doing any of those things, so......

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 18:53:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Apr 20 17:06:28 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    p.s. the numbers:
    https://statbase.org/data/usa-mortality-by-cause/

    https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/bicycle-deaths/

    about 1300 bicycle related deaths
    Those medical reasons for deaths are virtually all crap 2021 was the year they released the Covid-19 mRNA vavvines and at least 80% of the above norml deaths were caused by the vaccines (which should not be called a vaccine) Fauci was doing everything in his power which was a great deal to hide the fact that the mRNA "vaccines" were the cause of 80% of the excessive deaths. MD's are still pushing this poison despite the fact that dozens of controlled studies have shown that these preparations are pure poison.
    The point behind this is that the statistics on deaths onwards until 25 are completely unreliable. My friend wyho dropped dead from Myocarditis was marked as dying from a bicycle crash,
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 19:12:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Apr 20 17:05:03 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    I believe Mr Strobl's point was that about 50,000 USAians
    die from falls every year but only a few hundred from
    bicycle-related crashes.

    If a helmet is sensible for cycling, it's sensible for
    stairs and showers.
    But everyone walks up and down stairs and takes showers but a tiny minority ride bicycles. He is correct that as an experienced and careful rider he has close to zero chance of dying from a head injury. But close to zero isn't zero so wearing a helmet or not wearing a helmet should not be compulsary. And the UCI takes statistcs on bicycle srashes in races quite seriously and requires helmets while racing and still gets serious concusions and deaths every year.
    Don't try to invent statistics that don't exist. You may hold your own opinion and you're welcome to it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 14:16:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 4/21/2026 1:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 17:06:28 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 4/20/2026 2:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.


    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.




    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs. Why do you suppose both of us make personal decisions to wear helmets on bicycles and not for walking up stairs?

    You can make any personal decision you like but don't tell me that mine is wrong. No one here other than me has published papers on helmets and I daresay that I know a great deal more about the subject than you and my comments are factually based and not just personal opinion.

    You will probably go your entire life without needing a helmet so to you it makes sense to ride without one. But it is my opinion that being prepared for one in a million occasion is only sensible. And a funny looking helmet is a small price to pay.


    p.s. the numbers:
    https://statbase.org/data/usa-mortality-by-cause/

    https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/bicycle-deaths/ >>
    about 1300 bicycle related deaths




    Those medical reasons for deaths are virtually all crap 2021 was the year they released the Covid-19 mRNA vavvines and at least 80% of the above norml deaths were caused by the vaccines (which should not be called a vaccine) Fauci was doing everything in his power which was a great deal to hide the fact that the mRNA "vaccines" were the cause of 80% of the excessive deaths. MD's are still pushing this poison despite the fact that dozens of controlled studies have shown that these preparations are pure poison.

    The point behind this is that the statistics on deaths onwards until 25 are completely unreliable. My friend wyho dropped dead from Myocarditis was marked as dying from a bicycle crash,

    No dispute about those things but, back to Mr Strobl's
    comment, a LOT more people die in falls than on bicycles.

    If a helmet saves cyclists, then it would also save our
    stumbling, unbalanced generation on stairs and in bathtubs.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 19:19:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Apr 21 10:21:36 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Indeed the idea that a bike helmet (bicycle) it?s going to provide
    meaningful protection or even measurable protection from motor traffic believable. Even motorcycle helmet and the body armour seems not prevent
    them having awful rates even within big cities where speeds etc are much lower.

    I?d note at least one of my bikes is carbon and fork, seems thus far
    robust, as do mates bikes one of whom on the the bikes maiden ride was chasing his friend and managed to crash over a fire gate, bar a scratch
    both rider and bike are fine!
    Roger, my research suggests that a helmet provide almost no protection from motor vehicle interactions. But that they can have a large effect in the most common bicycle accidents - falling off for one reason or another. So that is a reason to be aware of their possible safety factor.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 19:25:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Apr 21 14:26:35 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Considering that a helmet protection is as a crumple zone, and a very thin one at that. It?s going to struggle to meaningful reduce impact speed
    that?s why air bag technology is repeated looked at as it absolutely can provide more protection for that reason in that it does have more time due
    to the distance between the contact point and head is quite a bit bigger
    and thus has more time, to reduce the impact speed which is what crumple
    zone are for.

    Dockless ride bikes are almost always ridden without helmets bar the occasional keen rider, the risks reported seem to be more down to the bikes weight and ungainly handling which can catch folks out, the older lime
    bikes are apparently ?leg breakers? for that reason.

    Despite the generally fairly casual riding style I?m not aware of such
    bikes having worse rates than other types of london or other large city commuters/utility cyclists, who are much more likely to be wearing a
    helmet. Which is always the thing, helmets perform well in controlled environments, but not in population levels which to the best of my
    knowledge have shown no change in rates and outcomes.

    Let alone that cycling is generally a safe activity, are exceptions such as Down Hill MTBing where folks even weekend warrior having a good time than getting good times, have full face, body armour, knee pads etc.

    Which is clearly rather more risky!

    I'm not planning on doing any of those things, so......
    While I agree with you, you couldn't be suggesting that if prtection isn't perfect it's worthless? Do you wear seatbelts in a car?
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 19:40:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Tue Apr 21 14:26:35 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Considering that a helmet protection is as a crumple zone, and a very thin >> one at that. It?s going to struggle to meaningful reduce impact speed
    that?s why air bag technology is repeated looked at as it absolutely can
    provide more protection for that reason in that it does have more time due >> to the distance between the contact point and head is quite a bit bigger
    and thus has more time, to reduce the impact speed which is what crumple
    zone are for.

    Dockless ride bikes are almost always ridden without helmets bar the
    occasional keen rider, the risks reported seem to be more down to the bikes >> weight and ungainly handling which can catch folks out, the older lime
    bikes are apparently ?leg breakers? for that reason.

    Despite the generally fairly casual riding style I?m not aware of such
    bikes having worse rates than other types of london or other large city
    commuters/utility cyclists, who are much more likely to be wearing a
    helmet. Which is always the thing, helmets perform well in controlled
    environments, but not in population levels which to the best of my
    knowledge have shown no change in rates and outcomes.

    Let alone that cycling is generally a safe activity, are exceptions such as >> Down Hill MTBing where folks even weekend warrior having a good time than
    getting good times, have full face, body armour, knee pads etc.

    Which is clearly rather more risky!

    I'm not planning on doing any of those things, so......




    While I agree with you, you couldn't be suggesting that if prtection
    isn't perfect it's worthless? Do you wear seatbelts in a car?


    Seatbelts and indeed lot of passengers safety of motor vehicles has been contributing to reduced rates, bike helmets arenrCOt remotely in that area
    and are in terms of safety essentially a distraction from the main risks ie motor vehicles.

    Roger Merriman

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 19:45:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Apr 21 14:16:04 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    No dispute about those things but, back to Mr Strobl's
    comment, a LOT more people die in falls than on bicycles.

    If a helmet saves cyclists, then it would also save our
    stumbling, unbalanced generation on stairs and in bathtubs.
    When was the last time you fell down stairs or in your shower. I hold on to the hand rail on stairs and my shower is constructed so that it is nearly impossible to fall down in (28" square). Are these not sufficient safety precautions?
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 20:04:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Apr 21 19:40:03 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Seatbelts and indeed lot of passengers safety of motor vehicles has been contributing to reduced rates, bike helmets aren?t remotely in that area
    and are in terms of safety essentially a distraction from the main risks ie motor vehicles.
    Roger, that is an opinion that isn't even faintly true. While motor vehicles are responsible for most bicycle deaths. The number is so small that they aren't even mentioned in the causes of death statistics. If you are afraid to ride around cars, that is your own fear. Bicyclists in general are not. What do you suppose would happen to someone that killed a cyclist? You are in more danger from cars as a pedestrian.
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 13:29:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 19:06:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    No one here other than me has published papers on helmets

    This is the only "paper" I could find where you have "published"
    anything. Did you write any others?

    "Latest CPSC Helmet Standard and US Fatality Trends" <https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/kunich.html> (June, 2002)

    Your "paper" is 25 years old and is hardly the "latest". Why haven't
    you "published" any updates?

    It was "published" on a web site devoted to cycling safety in Ontario,
    Canadia:
    <https://www.vehicularcyclist.com>
    under a "Reports and Opinions", with a different title:

    "Helmet Effect Undetectable in US Fatality Trends" <https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/reps.html>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 20:40:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Tue Apr 21 19:40:03 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Seatbelts and indeed lot of passengers safety of motor vehicles has been contributing to reduced rates, bike helmets aren?t remotely in that area
    and are in terms of safety essentially a distraction from the main risks ie motor vehicles.
    By the way, my interpretation of your comments as a fear of cars should not be taken as some sort of insult since fear of traffic is the most common occurrence among cyclists.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 16:36:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 4/21/2026 3:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Tue Apr 21 19:40:03 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Seatbelts and indeed lot of passengers safety of motor vehicles has been
    contributing to reduced rates, bike helmets aren?t remotely in that area
    and are in terms of safety essentially a distraction from the main risks ie >> motor vehicles.




    Roger, that is an opinion that isn't even faintly true. While motor vehicles are responsible for most bicycle deaths. The number is so small that they aren't even mentioned in the causes of death statistics. If you are afraid to ride around cars, that is your own fear. Bicyclists in general are not. What do you suppose would happen to someone that killed a cyclist? You are in more danger from cars as a pedestrian.



    "What do you suppose would happen to someone that killed a
    cyclist? "

    I read a lot of local overnight news in various cities every
    morning and have for years. Typically, that's a conviction
    for inattentive driving and a small fine.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Apr 21 21:47:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Tue Apr 21 19:40:03 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:

    Seatbelts and indeed lot of passengers safety of motor vehicles has been
    contributing to reduced rates, bike helmets aren?t remotely in that area
    and are in terms of safety essentially a distraction from the main risks ie >> motor vehicles.




    Roger, that is an opinion that isn't even faintly true. While motor
    vehicles are responsible for most bicycle deaths. The number is so small
    that they aren't even mentioned in the causes of death statistics.

    I assume this is that San Francisco as in the city not area so quite a
    small party of the overall metropolitan area, has had a drop in fatalities,
    and yes cycling deaths in that small bit are low, IrCOd note that New York is apparently still doing better in terms of rate.

    And as is the way of things US cities for well reasons have higher cycling
    and pedestrians fatalities and lower mode shares than European cities.

    If you are afraid to ride around cars, that is your own fear. Bicyclists in general are not. What do you suppose would happen to someone that killed a cyclist? You are in more danger from cars as a pedestrian.

    Which due to larger vehicles the rate is in US rising for pedestrians, as
    well big SUV hit the body let alone that US has less stringent regulations about pedestrian safety hence number of US vehicles canrCOt or be difficult
    to be made legal to drive in Europe.

    Roger Merriman



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  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Apr 22 05:48:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 4/20/2026 4:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 19:06:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.

    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.

    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs.

    IOW, Tom bought a used C40 which broke apart causing a crash. The
    cop-friend story is fake - It was tom. The first link Jeff posts below
    is allegedly from the friend, but was actually posted by tom about his
    own crash.


    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016). <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016). <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
    "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    (date unknown)

    I did searched all the above articles for the word "helmet" and found nothing.



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Apr 22 20:36:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 05:48:48 -0400, zen cycle
    <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 4/20/2026 4:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 19:06:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon Apr 20 09:17:27 2026 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
    Am Sat, 18 Apr 2026 18:59:17 GMT schrieb cyclintom
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com>:

    Those left here have less violent opinions on helmets but I wouold like to advoise you to use them and tilt strongly 5towards the use of the ... helmet.

    Do you wear a helmet when you go up or down stairs? No?
    Thought so.

    Wolfgang, I have permanent injuries from a carbon fiber fork failure, not from falling down the stairs, The cop who saved my life is permanently disabled from the entire front end of his Colnago C40 breaking away and not from falling down stairs.

    IOW, Tom bought a used C40 which broke apart causing a crash. The
    cop-friend story is fake - It was tom. The first link Jeff posts below
    is allegedly from the friend, but was actually posted by tom about his
    own crash.

    Yep. In the twospoke.com article, Tom became thoroughly confused
    attempting to untangle two different riders, both riding Colnago C40
    bicycles, and both being injured during the same ride. Note that all
    four articles were writing in 2016, while the accident happened in
    2010 (or possibly 2009). Why wait six years to post an alarmist
    warning about carbon fiber bicycles?

    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
    <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016).
    <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
    (July 10, 2016)
    <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016)
    <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016).
    <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/> >> "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    (date unknown)

    I did searched all the above articles for the word "helmet" and found
    nothing.

    Oops. That should read:
    "I searched all the above articles for the word "helmet" and found
    nothing".
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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