NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and ....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and ....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff!I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes. Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes, they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that has some sort of bearing.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=3dNAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=3dt0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a >>> bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff!
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in >>> Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear >>> brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale >> stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes. Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a >>> bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff! >>
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious >>> review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in >>> Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear >>> brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held >>> in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power >>> readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking >>> system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=3dNAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=3dt0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes. Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes, they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB riders are, absolute power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such braking forceI'm not sure that you have US stle downhills in Jolly Old. Here a strong brake is likely to be a handicap because the front brake is liable to jam and flip you ass over teakettle. At the speeds of a modern full suspension MTB that is a guaranteed trip to the hospital. Perhaps to the morgue. I hyaven't that problem because I've had a lot of practice falling down starting on early unsuspended MTB's and working my way up and have an acute sense of speed off-road. Something I only recently developed on road bikes.
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with less absolute power you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the older ones, though it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that is noticeable, with the finned pads and so on.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a >>>> bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff! >>>
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious >>>> review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in >>>> Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear >>>> brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held >>>> in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power >>>> readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking >>>> system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale >>> stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB riders are, absolute power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with less absolute power you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the older ones, though itrCOs more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that is noticeable, with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman-a wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
itrCOs more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing.-a All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
On Mon Apr 6 19:29:41 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a >>>>> bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff! >>>>
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>>>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious >>>>> review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in >>>>> Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake >>>>> Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear >>>>> brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS >>>>> location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined >>>>> braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>>>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>>>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>>>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held >>>>> in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the >>>>> weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>>>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally >>>>> accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power >>>>> readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake >>>>> had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and >>>>> ....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking >>>>> system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>>>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability". >>>>> Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes, >>> they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB riders are, absolute >> power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with less absolute power >> you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the older ones, though >> it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
I'm not sure that you have US stle downhills in Jolly Old. Here a strong brake is likely to be a handicap because the front brake is liable to jam
and flip you ass over teakettle. At the speeds of a modern full
suspension MTB that is a guaranteed trip to the hospital. Perhaps to the morgue. I hyaven't that problem because I've had a lot of practice
falling down starting on early unsuspended MTB's and working my way up
and have an acute sense of speed off-road. Something I only recently developed on road bikes.
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman-a wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
itrCOs more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing.-a All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman-a wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
itrCOs more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing.-a All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
Nor does it have to be perfect, would my roadie commuter be better with disks? Sure itrCOs wet weather performance is fairly woeful and has as is the case with rim brakes and to be honest cable activated disks fairly binary lever pull, so is more difficult to push the limits of the brakes/tyres.
But frankly for that purpose itrCOs largely a non issue, was one winter storm when had a almighty downpour plus traffic that I absolutely would of preferred to have been on any of my other bikes that have disks, but in
terms of stuff annoying me the cassette being to small so IrCOd end up flipping between the chainrings was much more of annoyance, and indeed the 11-34 means I donrCOt need to flip between them anymore, bar you know hills or something similar, I did in fairness fit some better pads fairly early
on as the ones that came with the bike where fairly cheap, but it wasnrCOt a expensive upgrade from memory.
IrCOm assuming yourCOre using the fixie to brake a lot of the time rather than
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
the callipers?
I have had to do more maintenance with the rim brake callipers than the
disk brakes with the two commute bikes, as while the pads last longer, the callipers need cleaning and oiling the moving parts or it will get sticky, the old MTB IrCOve not even cleaned the disks just left it be, and itrCOs fine.
Roger Merriman
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
On Tue Apr 7 13:03:52 2026 AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing. All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
My V-brakes will lock the front wheel on my gravel bike. What would I gain by adding 4 lbs of disk brakes?
On 4/7/2026 4:49 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Apr 7 13:03:52 2026 AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing. All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
My V-brakes will lock the front wheel on my gravel bike. What would I
gain by adding 4 lbs of disk brakes?
Probably nothing for you, but for Mr Merriman they're not
enough.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/7/2026 4:49 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Apr 7 13:03:52 2026 AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing. All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
My V-brakes will lock the front wheel on my gravel bike.
What would I>>> gain
by adding 4 lbs of disk brakes?
Probably nothing for you, but for Mr Merriman they're not
enough.
Indeed even cable activated disks are quite lacking in power and modulation plus off road have all sorts of bits that mud and muck can get into and
well trash!
And that doesnrCOt seem to be a me thing but in general hydraulic disks are preferred by riders particularly off road.
Re TomrCOs 4lb that doesnrCOt sound right, most of modern groupsets weight has
come from batteries as they are electronic, the hydraulic fluid and
calliper and disk, so 300/400ish grams ie maybe just 1lb at most.
if Tom is riding a ultra light hill climb bike in the sub 5Kg category sure yes perhaps that weight matters but otherwise its just a non issue.
Roger Merriman
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon Apr 6 19:29:41 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on a >>>>>> bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.Pink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff! >>>>>
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>>>>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious >>>>>> review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in >>>>>> Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake >>>>>> Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear >>>>>> brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS >>>>>> location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined >>>>>> braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>>>>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>>>>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>>>>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held >>>>>> in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the >>>>>> weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>>>>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally >>>>>> accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power >>>>>> readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake >>>>>> had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and >>>>>> ....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking >>>>>> system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>>>>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability". >>>>>> Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result.
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes, >>>> they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that >>>> has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB riders are, absolute >>> power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such braking force >>> with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in question, have had >>> the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with less absolute power >>> you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the older ones, though >>> it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that is noticeable, >>> with the finned pads and so on.
I'm not sure that you have US stle downhills in Jolly Old.
Here a strong
brake is likely to be a handicap because the front brake is liable to jam
and flip you ass over teakettle.
At the speeds of a modern full
suspension MTB that is a guaranteed trip to the hospital. Perhaps to the
morgue.
I hyaven't that problem because I've had a lot of practice
falling down starting on early unsuspended MTB's and working my way up
and have an acute sense of speed off-road.
Something I only recentlyThere have and do hold World Cup DH races so absolutely do have the terrain for it ie steep.
developed on road bikes.
Locking the front brake up, to endo is the sort of thing that folks without experience tend to worry about, coupled with the idea that DH would not
want the beefiest brake setup does suggest despite your claims that your experience with MTBrCOs is limited at best.
Roger Merriman
On 4/7/2026 3:26 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon Apr 6 19:29:41 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point to disc brakes on aPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science stuff to just fluff!
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing before, but this >>>>>>> one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a facetious >>>>>>> review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a variety of >>>>>>> different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking systems with Brake >>>>>>> Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking events, and GPS >>>>>>> location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except for combined >>>>>>> braking force - A useless metric without knowing the context - and only >>>>>>> as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests I've seen. >>>>>>>
That inanity was to measured lever force using water bottles as weights >>>>>>> for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from rotating mind you, but >>>>>>> from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor were both held >>>>>>> in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in place, but the >>>>>>> weighting method - pouring water into a bottle suspended from the lever >>>>>>> - well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet the generally >>>>>>> accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the aforementioned brake power >>>>>>> readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly list which brake >>>>>>> had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd the table) and >>>>>>> ....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they test each braking >>>>>>> system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to stop a Honda Fit by >>>>>>> a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed best for >>>>>>> control, weight, power, value, and something they call "livability". >>>>>>> Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which brake each >>>>>>> reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an objective result. >>>>>>>
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger than rim brakes, >>>>> they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a car as if that >>>>> has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB riders are, absolute >>>> power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such braking force >>>> with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in question, have had >>>> the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the older ones, though
it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that is noticeable, >>>> with the finned pads and so on.
I'm not sure that you have US stle downhills in Jolly Old.
There's this now thing called the internet. You should try it: https://roadcyclinguk.com/sportive/13-highest-roads-ride-uk.html
Here a strong
brake is likely to be a handicap because the front brake is liable to jam >>> and flip you ass over teakettle.
Only for people that don't know what they're doing.
At the speeds of a modern full
suspension MTB that is a guaranteed trip to the hospital. Perhaps to the >>> morgue.
I challenge you to find even an amateur downhill racer that would share
that opinion, let alone any pros.
I hyaven't that problem because I've had a lot of practice
falling down starting on early unsuspended MTB's and working my way up
and have an acute sense of speed off-road.
You crashed once on an MTB with disc brakes and blamed it on the brake. Hint: it wasn't the brake. You're the one who claimed it wasn't possible
to ride down a rocky 24% grade on a hard-tail. You have very little way
in the sense of off-road control.
Something I only recentlyThere have and do hold World Cup DH races so absolutely do have the terrain >> for it ie steep.
developed on road bikes.
Locking the front brake up, to endo is the sort of thing that folks without >> experience tend to worry about, coupled with the idea that DH would not
want the beefiest brake setup does suggest despite your claims that your
experience with MTBrCOs is limited at best.
His experience off-road is a gross exaggeration at best.
Roger Merriman
On 4/8/2026 4:53 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/7/2026 4:49 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Apr 7 13:03:52 2026 AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2026 11:18 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/6/2026 3:29 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat Apr 4 16:22:55 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
NOTE: If you're the type of person who sees no point toPink bike seem to vary from detailed to sudo science
disc brakes on a
bicycle, please move on. This test won't interest you.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-big-brake-test-10-of-
the-best-four-piston-mtb-brakes-2026.html
I've seen some really bad attempted-scientific testing
before, but this
one takes the prize. I can't tell if it was supposed to
be a facetious
review or not.
At any rate, it started out all well and good, using a
variety of
different brakes on repeated runs on a downhill course
at a bike park in
Whistler BC. They even instrumented up the braking
systems with Brake
Ace strain gauge sensors built into the adapter to
measure front-to-rear
brake bias, temperature, average power, major braking
events, and GPS
location.
Unfortunately, they don't show any of that data except
for combined
braking force - A useless metric without knowing the
context - and only
as an input to one of the more inane comparison tests
I've seen.
That inanity was to measured lever force using water
bottles as weights
for the force required to stop a rotor. Not from
rotating mind you, but
from wiggling in the caliper when the caliper and rotor
were both held
in the hand of the tester. They did clamp the lever in
place, but the
weighting method - pouring water into a bottle
suspended from the lever
- well....lets just say the entire scheme doesn't meet
the generally
accepted concept of 'reproducibility'.
Couple that with the fact that they use the
aforementioned brake power
readings from the brake ace system, then incorrectly
list which brake
had the highest lever/force ratio (unless they typo'd
the table) and
....well.....I wouldn't use this as marketing data.
Lastly, something fun but equally unscientific, they
test each braking
system by seeing how how long (distance) it took to
stop a Honda Fit by
a bike being towed behind it.
They then try to list objectively which brake performed
best for
control, weight, power, value, and something they call
"livability".
Weight was the only actual objective measure.
The only thing we learned from this article was which
brake each
reviewer preferred. Nice to know, but hardly an
objective result.
stuff to just fluff!
Apparently the market for testing kit, has fallen though
though I find Dale
stone for brakes good.
<https://youtube.com/@dalestone?si=NAo8uldbecqv3ecU>
And Guy Kes for tyres particularly XC/Gravel stuff.
<https://youtube.com/@guykestv?si=t0T9_BNTcefQDZqR>
I am quite surprised that you are interested in disk
brake bikes.
Myexperience wityh them is that while they are stronger
than rim brakes,
they are no better. I liked the part where he stopped a
car as if that
has some sort of bearing.
For MTB use and particularly DH focus as a lot of MTB
riders are, absolute
power/accessible power ie brakes that you can achieve such
braking force
with relatively low lever pull.
I believe the Mavens which absolute power was never in
question, have had
the levers redesigned as had stiff pull, so brakes with
less absolute power
you could brake harder with as they had a better lever pull.
The newer brakes on my MTB have a bit more bite than the
older ones, though
it?s more the ability to hang in there on longer runs that
is noticeable,
with the finned pads and so on.
Roger Merriman
Yes, we've had this discussion many times before in this
forum. For off-road use, disc brakes are simple better and
not by a little. They very clearly and strikingly out-
perform rim brakes in every aspect of braking performance
except for weight, which is only a factor for bikes
specifically set for hill climbing. All my road bikes are
rim brakes, all my MTBs are disc.
+1 to that.
"What's the best braking system?" depends heavily on who you
are and where you ride; it's not an absolute.
The shoes on the Weinmann sidepull at the front of my fixie:
https://www.danscomp.com/kool-stop-vans-brake-pads-threaded-pink-pair-ks-vpink/p619846
are 25 years old and not halfway worn.
My V-brakes will lock the front wheel on my gravel bike.
What would I>>> gain
- Modulation control:less chance of locking up the wheel when you don't
want to
- better and more consistent control in wet/mucky conditions.
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
by adding 4 lbs of disk brakes?
I would challenge tom to find a hydraulic system that would _add_ 4
pounds to your bike. The brake systems tested were all dual-piston
down-hill versions - some of the heaviest on the market. The system
topping the scale there was 616 grams per wheel, though I did find a
review which claims 710G. That makes 1420g per bike. I'll let you figure
the math on that conversion (hint, it's no where near 4 pounds). If one
is considering disc for a gravel bike, a set of Shimano 105 discs will handle the job for all but the most extreme cases and may add a pound dep[ending on the brakes you're replacing, ref here: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/road-disc-brakes-everything-you-need-to-know
"The biggest advantage of rim brakes is weight. Although disc and rim
brake components themselves arenrCOt very different weight-wise, once you add the rotor, the system weight of a disc brake setup is typically a
few hundred grams greater."
Probably nothing for you, but for Mr Merriman they're not
enough.
Indeed even cable activated disks are quite lacking in power and modulation >> plus off road have all sorts of bits that mud and muck can get into and
well trash!
And that doesnrCOt seem to be a me thing but in general hydraulic disks are >> preferred by riders particularly off road.
It's definitely a preference thing. I have Avid BB7s on both my hard
tails and Sram G2s on my FS. The only difference is that the hydraulics
do feel more crisp, but as far as modulation control and power I don't
see a big benefit to hydraulics, especially for the added PIA of the
set-up and maintenance.
Re TomrCOs 4lb that doesnrCOt sound right, most of modern groupsets weight has
come from batteries as they are electronic, the hydraulic fluid and
calliper and disk, so 300/400ish grams ie maybe just 1lb at most.
+1
if Tom is riding a ultra light hill climb bike in the sub 5Kg category sure >> yes perhaps that weight matters but otherwise its just a non issue.
Roger Merriman
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would
consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for example not riding as itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in what is essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden for a month or more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take them off around now.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness, the Bay Area while does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs not as unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day as is the case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather climate category.
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both the cheaper single pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot TRP Spyre which trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by comparison I wash off
the mud and change pads,
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the roadie commuter has needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which IrCOve done nothing since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a very quick easy job, not even a cup of tea job!
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very
rainy) I would
consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any
several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally
don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road
however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for
example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in
what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden
for a month or
more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take
them off around
now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc
brakes _do_ perform better on high-speed descents. I
remember reading an article years ago when disc brakes first
started appearing in the pro peloton where Paolo Savoldelli
said that if he had disc brakes when he was racing he would
have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him "il
Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now).
The issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're
pushing the pace and taking corners at maximum speed, though
there is plenty of of data that shows rim brakes on carbon
rims can overheat the rim to the point that it weakens the
physical properties of the epoxy even on high end wheels, so
riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a
safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg
in the range of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp
research, the carbon braking surface can heat up to 370
degrees Celsius during long braking, so there is no margin
of safety. So far, no rims have been developed that could
withstand such temperatures."
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-
brakes would be worth the investment.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness,
the Bay Area while
does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs
not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day
as is the case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather
climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of- america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/
london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike
which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both
the cheaper single
pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot
TRP Spyre which
trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by
comparison I wash off
the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs
hydraulic, rather the quality of the materials in the
brakes. Granted, I'm only getting a few dozen MTB rides per
year split between the FS and hard tail, but I simply don't
see much of a difference in maintenance or performance.
Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do
in this area it's not a problem.
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the
roadie commuter has
needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need
cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which
IrCOve done nothing
since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a
very quick easy
job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the
pads are much simpler - no toeing or height alignment
problems. There have been times when I've spent an hour
getting a new set of pads aligned properly on V-brakes or
canti's.
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would
consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden for a month or
more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take them off around >> now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc brakes _do_
perform better on high-speed descents. I remember reading an article
years ago when disc brakes first started appearing in the pro peloton
where Paolo Savoldelli said that if he had disc brakes when he was
racing he would have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him
"il Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now). The
issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're pushing the pace
and taking corners at maximum speed, though there is plenty of of data
that shows rim brakes on carbon rims can overheat the rim to the point
that it weakens the physical properties of the epoxy even on high end wheels, so riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg in the range
of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp research, the carbon
braking surface can heat up to 370 degrees Celsius during long braking,
so there is no margin of safety. So far, no rims have been developed
that could withstand such temperatures."
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-brakes would
be worth the investment.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness, the Bay Area while >> does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day as is the case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather climate
category.
um....no. https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both the cheaper single >> pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot TRP Spyre which
trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by comparison I wash off
the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs hydraulic,
rather the quality of the materials in the brakes. Granted, I'm only
getting a few dozen MTB rides per year split between the FS and hard
tail, but I simply don't see much of a difference in maintenance or performance. Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do in this area it's not a problem.
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the roadie commuter has
needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which IrCOve done nothing >> since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a very quick easy >> job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the pads are much simpler - no toeing or height alignment problems. There have been times
when I've spent an hour getting a new set of pads aligned properly on V-brakes or canti's.
On 4/12/2026 6:24 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very
rainy) I would
consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any
several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally
don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road
however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for
example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in
what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden
for a month or
more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take
them off around
now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc
brakes _do_ perform better on high-speed descents. I
remember reading an article years ago when disc brakes first
started appearing in the pro peloton where Paolo Savoldelli
said that if he had disc brakes when he was racing he would
have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him "il
Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now).
The issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're
pushing the pace and taking corners at maximum speed, though
there is plenty of of data that shows rim brakes on carbon
rims can overheat the rim to the point that it weakens the
physical properties of the epoxy even on high end wheels, so
riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a
safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg
in the range of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp
research, the carbon braking surface can heat up to 370
degrees Celsius during long braking, so there is no margin
of safety. So far, no rims have been developed that could
withstand such temperatures."
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-
brakes would be worth the investment.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness,
the Bay Area while
does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs
not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day
as is the case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather
climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-
america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/
london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike
which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both
the cheaper single
pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot
TRP Spyre which
trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by
comparison I wash off
the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs
hydraulic, rather the quality of the materials in the
brakes. Granted, I'm only getting a few dozen MTB rides per
year split between the FS and hard tail, but I simply don't
see much of a difference in maintenance or performance.
Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do
in this area it's not a problem.
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the
roadie commuter has
needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need
cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which
IrCOve done nothing
since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a
very quick easy
job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the
pads are much simpler - no toeing or height alignment
problems. There have been times when I've spent an hour
getting a new set of pads aligned properly on V-brakes or
canti's.
Seattle does indeed get frequent rain and annually more than
London. But my experiences in Seattle made an impression in
that a few minutes after riding through a shower,
everything's dry, really dry. The first time I visited my
brother there (45 years ago), I panicked when I saw the
guest room had open windows with no screens. He assured me
that Seattle is so dry there aren't mosquitos.
London just feels humid and damp all too often- very
different geography and weather without that wall of
mountains nearby.
On 4/12/2026 6:24 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would >>>> consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in >>>> the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for example not
riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden for a month or >>> more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take them off
around
now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc brakes _do_
perform better on high-speed descents. I remember reading an article
years ago when disc brakes first started appearing in the pro peloton
where Paolo Savoldelli said that if he had disc brakes when he was
racing he would have broken every downhill record (They didn't call
him "il Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now).
The issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're pushing the
pace and taking corners at maximum speed, though there is plenty of of
data that shows rim brakes on carbon rims can overheat the rim to the
point that it weakens the physical properties of the epoxy even on
high end wheels, so riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is
known to be a safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg in the
range of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp research, the
carbon braking surface can heat up to 370 degrees Celsius during long
braking, so there is no margin of safety. So far, no rims have been
developed that could withstand such temperatures."
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc- brakes
would be worth the investment.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness, the Bay Area
while
does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day as is the
case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of- america/
washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/ london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both the cheaper
single
pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot TRP Spyre
which
trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by comparison I wash off >>> the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs hydraulic,
rather the quality of the materials in the brakes. Granted, I'm only
getting a few dozen MTB rides per year split between the FS and hard
tail, but I simply don't see much of a difference in maintenance or
performance. Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do in this
area it's not a problem.
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the roadie commuter
has
needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which IrCOve done
nothing
since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a very quick
easy
job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the pads are
much simpler - no toeing or height alignment problems. There have been
times when I've spent an hour getting a new set of pads aligned
properly on V-brakes or canti's.
Seattle does indeed get frequent rain and annually more than London. But
my experiences in Seattle made an impression in that a few minutes after riding through a shower, everything's dry, really dry. The first time I visited my brother there (45 years ago), I panicked when I saw the guest room had open windows with no screens. He assured me that Seattle is so
dry there aren't mosquitos.
London just feels humid and damp all too often- very different geography
and weather without that wall of mountains nearby.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/12/2026 6:24 AM, zen cycle wrote:The weather almost always moves from the Atlantic so even if South East England, had higher ground it would still remain dryer than land to the
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very
rainy) I would
consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any
several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally
don't ride in
the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road
however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for
example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in
what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden
for a month or
more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take
them off around
now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc
brakes _do_ perform better on high-speed descents. I
remember reading an article years ago when disc brakes first
started appearing in the pro peloton where Paolo Savoldelli
said that if he had disc brakes when he was racing he would
have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him "il
Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now).
The issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're
pushing the pace and taking corners at maximum speed, though
there is plenty of of data that shows rim brakes on carbon
rims can overheat the rim to the point that it weakens the
physical properties of the epoxy even on high end wheels, so
riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a
safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg
in the range of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp
research, the carbon braking surface can heat up to 370
degrees Celsius during long braking, so there is no margin
of safety. So far, no rims have been developed that could
withstand such temperatures."
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-
brakes would be worth the investment.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness,
the Bay Area while
does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs
not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day
as is the case
in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather
climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-
america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/
london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike
which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both
the cheaper single
pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot
TRP Spyre which
trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by
comparison I wash off
the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs
hydraulic, rather the quality of the materials in the
brakes. Granted, I'm only getting a few dozen MTB rides per
year split between the FS and hard tail, but I simply don't
see much of a difference in maintenance or performance.
Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do
in this area it's not a problem.
at some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the
roadie commuter has
needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need
cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which
IrCOve done nothing
since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a
very quick easy
job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the
pads are much simpler - no toeing or height alignment
problems. There have been times when I've spent an hour
getting a new set of pads aligned properly on V-brakes or
canti's.
Seattle does indeed get frequent rain and annually more than
London. But my experiences in Seattle made an impression in
that a few minutes after riding through a shower,
everything's dry, really dry. The first time I visited my
brother there (45 years ago), I panicked when I saw the
guest room had open windows with no screens. He assured me
that Seattle is so dry there aren't mosquitos.
London just feels humid and damp all too often- very
different geography and weather without that wall of
mountains nearby.
west of it, as the hills/land in the west is where the rain drops and thus the land to the east is spared most of it, same in Northern England and
even Scotland, the west is much wetter even with areas with relatively similar hills and so on.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:Used to get folks using carbon rims down the London Embankment well still
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would >>>> consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile
long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in >>>> the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden for a month or >>> more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take them off around >>> now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc brakes _do_
perform better on high-speed descents. I remember reading an article
years ago when disc brakes first started appearing in the pro peloton
where Paolo Savoldelli said that if he had disc brakes when he was
racing he would have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him
"il Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now). The
issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're pushing the pace
and taking corners at maximum speed, though there is plenty of of data
that shows rim brakes on carbon rims can overheat the rim to the point
that it weakens the physical properties of the epoxy even on high end
wheels, so riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a
safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg in the range
of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp research, the carbon
braking surface can heat up to 370 degrees Celsius during long braking,
so there is no margin of safety. So far, no rims have been developed
that could withstand such temperatures."
do but now they have rotors than trying to brake on said rims in the wet, which never worked well.
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-brakes would
be worth the investment.
IrCOd say itrCOs more hills that have tight bends or steep sections where on the Gravel bike IrCOll hold my speed and brake hard into it, with the roadie IrCOd brake much earlier and be generally more careful, but other longer hills with more moderate curves etc that can just let the bike run more and no advantage to disks.
And obviously the 20/30% stuff doesnrCOt play to rim brakes strengths.
Really depends on what sort of hills yourCOre descending the hill Tom likes doesnrCOt appear to be particularly technical and is double track etc, others though yes probably would favour disks.
Perhaps I wasnrCOt a clear as I should of been by Bay I did mean the San Francisco and surrounding areas that Tom lives and is a Mediterranean type climate, Seattle is even from my very vague understanding is quite a bit wetter area.
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness, the Bay Area while >>> does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day as is the case >>> in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
Hydraulics are sealed so muck canrCOt work itrCOs way in, cable activated will
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike which came with
cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both the cheaper single >>> pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot TRP Spyre which >>> trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by comparison I wash off >>> the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs hydraulic,
rather the quality of the materials in the brakes. Granted, I'm only
getting a few dozen MTB rides per year split between the FS and hard
tail, but I simply don't see much of a difference in maintenance or
performance. Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do in this area
it's not a problem.
have the cable and adjustment ie dial etc to move the piston in as the pad wears, this was always the point of failure that slop got in and wore
moving parts. The TRP Spyre wasnrCOt a cheap calliper, but itrCOs not a sealed
system and uk is wet and sloppy so..
Oh absolutely itrCOs just a non issue. To a degree can do that with cartridge pads with rim brakes but definitely getting sub optimal at some point inat some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the roadie commuter has >>> needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need cleaning and making
sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which IrCOve done nothing >>> since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a very quick easy >>> job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the pads are much
simpler - no toeing or height alignment problems. There have been times
when I've spent an hour getting a new set of pads aligned properly on
V-brakes or canti's.
the wear cycle.
Roger Merriman
On 4/12/2026 1:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 4/11/2026 8:48 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:Used to get folks using carbon rims down the London Embankment well still
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I lived in Toms area or some place like seattle (very rainy) I would >>>>> consider disc brakes for my road bikes. I don't have any several-mile >>>>> long twisty downhills within a days drive and I generally don't ride in >>>>> the rain any more, so they aren't necessary. For off-road however
there's absolutely no comparison.
It doesnrCOt seem to be very rainy where Tom lives, for example not riding as
itrCOs raining for 3 days etc as he tends to post, even in what is
essentially the driest area of the uk, IrCOd of not ridden for a month or >>>> more, itrCOs why folks fit mudguards in the autumn and take them off around
now.
It's not the weather in Toms area, it's the hills. Disc brakes _do_
perform better on high-speed descents. I remember reading an article
years ago when disc brakes first started appearing in the pro peloton
where Paolo Savoldelli said that if he had disc brakes when he was
racing he would have broken every downhill record (They didn't call him
"il Falco" for nothing, damned if I can find that article now). The
issue is that it doesn't really show up until you're pushing the pace
and taking corners at maximum speed, though there is plenty of of data
that shows rim brakes on carbon rims can overheat the rim to the point
that it weakens the physical properties of the epoxy even on high end
wheels, so riding rim brakes on a high-speed downhill is known to be a
safety issue:
https://dandyhorse.cc/en/overheating-carbon-rims/?
"Most high-quality rims are produced using resins with a Tg in the range >>> of 150-200 degrees Celsius. According to Zipp research, the carbon
braking surface can heat up to 370 degrees Celsius during long braking,
so there is no margin of safety. So far, no rims have been developed
that could withstand such temperatures."
do but now they have rotors than trying to brake on said rims in the wet,
which never worked well.
If I did long, high-speed descents on a regular basis, disc-brakes would >>> be worth the investment.
IrCOd say itrCOs more hills that have tight bends or steep sections where on >> the Gravel bike IrCOll hold my speed and brake hard into it, with the roadie >> IrCOd brake much earlier and be generally more careful, but other longer
hills with more moderate curves etc that can just let the bike run more and >> no advantage to disks.
And obviously the 20/30% stuff doesnrCOt play to rim brakes strengths.
Really depends on what sort of hills yourCOre descending the hill Tom likes >> doesnrCOt appear to be particularly technical and is double track etc, others
though yes probably would favour disks.
Perhaps I wasnrCOt a clear as I should of been by Bay I did mean the San
Seattle seems to be quite a step up in terms of wetness, the Bay Area while
does have a higher volume of rain in winter vs london itrCOs not as
unrelenting ie heavier downpours but not raining every day as is the case >>>> in london and uk in general, hence itrCOs in a dryer weather climate
category.
um....no.
https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-america/washington/seattle-593/
119 rainy days, 1386 mm (54")/year
https://en.climate-data.org/europe/united-kingdom/england/london-1/
94 rainy days, 690 mm (27")/year
<snip>
Francisco and surrounding areas that Tom lives and is a Mediterranean type >> climate, Seattle is even from my very vague understanding is quite a bit
wetter area.
Ah, I see, Seattle is known sometimmes as the bay area also, for obvious reasons
Hydraulics are sealed so muck canrCOt work itrCOs way in, cable activated will
In the wet as UK often is, I found the last Gravel bike which came with >>>> cable disks, that mud penetration into the calipers both the cheaper single
pot Tektro that it came with and the much better twin pot TRP Spyre which >>>> trashed both sets of calliper, Hydraulic system by comparison I wash off >>>> the mud and change pads,
Those issues don't seem to be an issue of mechanical/vs hydraulic,
rather the quality of the materials in the brakes. Granted, I'm only
getting a few dozen MTB rides per year split between the FS and hard
tail, but I simply don't see much of a difference in maintenance or
performance. Certainly, if I rode them daily or did more extreme
downhilling I might see some issue, but for the riding I do in this area >>> it's not a problem.
have the cable and adjustment ie dial etc to move the piston in as the pad >> wears, this was always the point of failure that slop got in and wore
moving parts. The TRP Spyre wasnrCOt a cheap calliper, but itrCOs not a sealed
system and uk is wet and sloppy so..
Ah, I see....valid points all...
Oh absolutely itrCOs just a non issue. To a degree can do that with cartridgeat some point yes will need to visit the bike shop
but multiple years before it needs bleeding, even the roadie commuter has >>>> needed much more attention as the dual pivots, need cleaning and making >>>> sure they operate cleanly vs the old MTB commuter which IrCOve done nothing
since the winter of 24, when it needed new pads which is a very quick easy >>>> job, not even a cup of tea job!
Which is another benefit of disc brakes: Swapping out the pads are much
simpler - no toeing or height alignment problems. There have been times
when I've spent an hour getting a new set of pads aligned properly on
V-brakes or canti's.
pads with rim brakes but definitely getting sub optimal at some point in
the wear cycle.
Roger Merriman
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