From Newsgroup: rec.autos.tech

On this Fri, 1 Dec 2023 17:27:09 -0500, 0a+0+A Mighty Wannabe rLa wrote:

Those emergency tire plug kits are for you to plug the hole yourself on
the roadside, so you can then drive to a qualified auto mechanic to
patch the hole from the inside. Those plugs are not meant to be a
permanent fix.

A proper patch is called a patchplug (as I'm sure you know) which is both
that patch and that plug (which you know). It can be a single piece (with a wire do pull it through) or you can do it at home with two pieces.

Normally it's reamed first but there will always be sharp edges in belt
wires (if they're metal layers - and I think all tires have metal layers).

The thinking, I think, is that a patch without the plug leaves a hole which allows water to rust the steel belts.

There's also squirming going on, although the plug isn't rigid but it's
closer to the density of the tire than a hole would be so we can assume a plugged hole squirms less. Each squirm ever so slightly enlarges the hole.

As far as I'm aware, the round flat patch is simply to give the biggest surface area for the inside air pressure to not blow out the hole.

or they declare the tire unfixable and sell you a new one.

The tire manufacturers say you must demount the tire and do both:
insert the plug from the outside and add the patch inside.
But none of the shops locally will demount a tire unless selling a new one.

My neighbourhood garage patched a nail hole in my tire last year for
$25. That included demount, re-balance, and remount.

Anyone taught professionally how to patchplug a tire is taught the rules by the rubber manufacturers association (and probably also the tire OEM).

The main reason for dismounting every damaged tire is to L@@K inside to see
if it's damaged (often you'll see piles of rubber "dust" for example).

The rules say any tire showing damage from the inside (even if the outside
has a perfectly pluggable hole) has to be scrapped immediately.

I've had once where they left me without a tire because they (at first) refused to put the scrapped tire back onto the wheel (I had to beg them).

Of course, they want to sell you a new tire but they didn't have the same model in stock so I argued that their unmatched tire would be dangerous.
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.tech

On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 09:38:33 -0500, micky wrote:

The tire manufacturers say you must demount the tire and do both:

insert the plug from the outside and add the patch inside.

Since either method works on its own, I don't think both are needed.

The main reason for taking off the tire is a visual inspection of the
carcass and once the tire is off, you may as well patch it from inside.

Normally what I do is remove the tire at home, inspect the inside and plug
it from the outside and then cut the plug flush & patch from the inside.

Then I remount the tire & static balance it & take it for a road test.

But none of the shops locally will demount a tire unless selling a new one.

Plugging is so easy one who is normally fit can do it himself.

I've plugged many tires as has everyone on this newsgroup plugged them.
I've never had a plugged tire fail on me in use. Have you?

That doesn't mean though that the carcass wasn't damaged internally.
But in a true emergency I'd plug a tire in a heartbeat to get going.

The harder problem is putting the air back into that plugged tire.

I never had a tire that I plugged that leaked again.

I think eventually most plugs would leak if they're not reamed out well.
That's because the squirming of the steel bands would push it out.
But that seems to take years at the kind of normal driving most of us do.

But last week it was cold and wet if not rainy and it was a front tire
and I'm getting old so I gave up and paid to have it done. And despite
just praising strings, if I'm paying someone I wanted it done the right
way.

There is only one right way but there are a lot of wrong ways to do it.

Around here Baltimore you can get either method. Just have to pay. At
the closest gas station, I don't know how much he would have charged to
plug it, but patching it was $35. Seems to me last time I paid, around
1990 or 80 or 70, it was 5, so 35 was a shocker.

Two $35 plugs is the cost of an entire economy car brand new tire.

He may have put the
alloy rim on his machine upside down, because I know he scratched one of
the big wide "spokes", but I havent' noticed the problem since I've been driving it and I just don't care anymore. He also didn't water test it first to be sure he'd found the right location** and more importantly he didn't water test it afterwards to make sure he'd fixed it. I didnt'
see anything suitable for dunking the wheel. I may go somewhere else
next time because of that. But he did other things right, marking the
hole with chalk, marking where the stem was with chalk so the tire
woudln't have to be rebalanced.

What I do when I dunk a tire to check is throw it in the kiddie pool.
Or if it's on the car (or super dirty) I just spray it with dish soap.

Hmmm, what about the weight of the
patch? I don't think anyone has rebalanced a tire after patching it, and
for that matter, for 20 years or more I bought tires and refused to pay
for balanncing and I never had a vibration problem.

There's a problem there in that a proper repair has to have the tire
removed to inspect the inside of the carcass so a rebalance is normally
done although at home you could just mark the position ahead of time.

I think tires are
better than 50 years ago and likely to be balanced themselves, without weights.

Balancing is one of those things that everyone has an opinion on.
I have the Harbor Freight aluminum static balancer which works fine.

The only problem is Harbor Freight only sells stickon weights.
I like the crimpon type. So I have to buy huge boxes off of Amazon.

And he was happy for me to come inside and watch him, unlike
Firestone where they have a separate waiting room, and worse yet the
ddealer where a driver picks up your car and you never even see the
mechanic or the shop. )

I've watched the Hunter tech many times. They're usually very lazy.
They never do it right.

They know how to match mount but they're too lazy to do it right.
They know how to mount by the yellow/read/white marks too.

But all they care about it getting the next customer out the door.
That's how they're paid.

**He found a hole and thought it had been a nail that fell out. That
would explain why I had a slow leak for a week or two and then a fast
leak that flattened the tire in one or two nights.

They must have the machines to dismount and mount because they need them
if they sell a new tire.

You can do the whole thing at home for an outlay of about $250 depending
on whether you already have the tools that you need. I do it all the time.

1. air compressor, chucks, hoses, stem removal tool, tire irons, soap, etc.
2. bead breaker tool
3. tire mounting/dismounting tool <== don't use their lousy bead breaker
4. static balancer

Harbor Freight sells everything except the dish soap.
Anyone claiming you always need road-force balancing is making that up.

The after-the-fact dynamic balance test is free in all cases.
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