Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
On 7/7/2026 4:05 AM, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63
years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each rotation. >>
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would steal
the brass valves for scrap value.
On 7/7/2026 4:05 AM, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63
years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last
the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would steal
the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to the rubber tyre,
so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63
years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
On Wed, 8 Jul 2026 09:45:14 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last
the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would steal
the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to the rubber tyre,
so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
There is no connection with a tubeless tire, The vavle stem mounts on the rim.
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63
years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes. You need a bolt cutter for a brass stem. Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed. They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just
going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last the
life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
On 2026-07-08 17:48:38 +0000, rbowman said:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2026 09:45:14 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by
saying they last
the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have
very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a
cantilever arm on a
spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely
flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber
valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch
pirate would steal
the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to
the rubber tyre,
so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
There is no connection with a tubeless tire, The vavle
stem mounts on the
rim.
It still needs an airtight connection to the actual rubber
tyre, otherwise you wouldn't need the valve at all.
On 2026-07-08 17:48:38 +0000, rbowman said:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2026 09:45:14 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last
the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on
a spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would
steal the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to the rubber
tyre,
so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
There is no connection with a tubeless tire, The vavle stem mounts on
the rim.
It still needs an airtight connection to the actual rubber tyre,
otherwise you wouldn't need the valve at all.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units failed.
They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about their
10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just going to
put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
On 2026-07-08 20:08:39 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63 >>>> years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes. You need a bolt
cutter for a brass stem. Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed. They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just
going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
I have yet to find any silly tyre pressure warning system that actually works. My mother's old VW Polo used to constantly complain about tyre pressure, despite being nothing wrong with the tyre. Even VW themselves couldn't work out why and their only solution was an expensive sensor replacement - she instead simply replaced the car.
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars. :-( Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars.-a :-(-a Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
I used to think that, but I got hooked on AC and electric windows.-a And then I decided I liked the push-button on the key to unlock the doors.
The electric thing to adjust the side mirrors is pretty neat too.-a Fuck, I've gone over to the dark side.
On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 10:20:21 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 17:48:38 +0000, rbowman said:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2026 09:45:14 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last >>>>>> the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on >>>>>> a spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each >>>>>> rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would
steal the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to the rubber
tyre,
so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
There is no connection with a tubeless tire, The vavle stem mounts on
the rim.
It still needs an airtight connection to the actual rubber tyre,
otherwise you wouldn't need the valve at all.
You're one of those people I wouldn't trust with a screwdriver.
On 7/8/26 15:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 20:08:39 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience.-a I've owned about 25 cars over the last >>>>> 63 years.-a Number of tire valves replaced:-a 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes.-a You need a
bolt cutter for a brass stem.-a Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed.-a-a They were 10 years old, like the car.-a If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe.-a Now I'm just
going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
I have yet to find any silly tyre pressure warning system that actually
works. My mother's old VW Polo used to constantly complain about tyre
pressure, despite being nothing wrong with the tyre. Even VW themselves
couldn't work out why and their only solution was an expensive sensor
replacement - she instead simply replaced the car.
They were Ok when they worked.-a I filled the tires to 35 lbs and I got a warning when one of them went down to 24 (later on 28, but not for
long).-a Good enough.
AutoZone prices vary between $6 and $1400 -- roughly.-a More reading is necessary, but I doubt it's worth it.-a I have a cute little electronic gauge which also talks and the $35 Harbor Freight pump.-a Reasonably convenient, although the rechargeable ones seem pretty slick. Nice to
not have to keep unscrewing the hose because the gauge on the pump is flakey.-a Why don't they have quick-release connectors like bicycle hand-pumps?
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars.-a :-(-a Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
I used to think that, but I got hooked on AC and electric windows.-a And then I decided I liked the push-button on the key to unlock the doors.
The electric thing to adjust the side mirrors is pretty neat too.-a Fuck, I've gone over to the dark side.
On 7/8/2026 11:21 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars.-a :-(-a Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
I used to think that, but I got hooked on AC and electric windows.-a And
then I decided I liked the push-button on the key to unlock the doors.
The electric thing to adjust the side mirrors is pretty neat too.-a Fuck, >> I've gone over to the dark side.
Don't forget remote start when the temperature is very high or low.
I don't keep a car past the warranty period.
I did have a bit of panicwhen I'm using it, but not enough to spend $250 or so.
today. suddenly the SiriusXM radio cut out. Came back after 10 minutes
so I survived the ride home. It was their glitch. .Radio is fine. I'd like Android so I could actually SEE google maps
On 7/8/26 20:56, Ed P wrote:
I did have a bit of panic
today. suddenly the SiriusXM radio cut out. Came back after 10 minutes
so I survived the ride home. It was their glitch.
Radio is fine. I'd like Android so I could actually SEE google maps
when I'm using it, but not enough to spend $250 or so.
On 7/8/2026 5:20 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 17:48:38 +0000, rbowman said:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2026 09:45:14 +1200, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 09:25:52 +0000, Deep State said:
On 7/7/26 04:05, Gronk wrote:
Tire shop convinced me to put brass tire valves by saying they last >>>>>> the life of the car. Given rubber degrades, they have very little
rubber.
The tire shop says the rubber valve flexes like a cantilever arm on a >>>>>> spring every rotation whereas the brass valve barely flexed each
rotation.
What's your experience?
And how does a tire valve fail anyway?
In Florida, I'd imagine the Sun would eat the rubber valves.
In Michigan, I'd imagine some Detroit Democrat porch pirate would steal >>>>> the brass valves for scrap value.
Even if the valve is brass, it still has to connect to the rubber tyre, >>>> so there is still the supposed flexing point anyway!
There is no connection with a tubeless tire, The vavle stem mounts on the >>> rim.
It still needs an airtight connection to the actual rubber tyre,
otherwise you wouldn't need the valve at all.
Uh, no.
For modern tubeless systems the tire bead seals at the rim bead, as described in the 1898 Michelin patent. The valve is elsewhere in the
rim and doesn't interface with the tire at all.
https://www.engineersrule.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/image001-1-1024x519.jpg
https://tirethink.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/DTPMS-sensor-is-located-inside-each-tire-on-the-rim-and-attached-to-the-valve-stem-1024x683.webp
(for classic British autos with wire wheels, many motorcycles, most bicycles, the spoke holes mean the rim is not airtight. Hence an inner
tube with a valve.)
On 7/8/26 15:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 20:08:39 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63 >>>>> years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes. You need a bolt
cutter for a brass stem. Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed. They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just
going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
I have yet to find any silly tyre pressure warning system that actually
works. My mother's old VW Polo used to constantly complain about tyre
pressure, despite being nothing wrong with the tyre. Even VW themselves
couldn't work out why and their only solution was an expensive sensor
replacement - she instead simply replaced the car.
They were Ok when they worked. I filled the tires to 35 lbs and I got
a warning when one of them went down to 24 (later on 28, but not for
long). Good enough.
AutoZone prices vary between $6 and $1400 -- roughly. More reading is necessary, but I doubt it's worth it. I have a cute little electronic
gauge which also talks and the $35 Harbor Freight pump. Reasonably convenient, although the rechargeable ones seem pretty slick. Nice to
not have to keep unscrewing the hose because the gauge on the pump is flakey. Why don't they have quick-release connectors like bicycle hand-pumps?
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars. :-( Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
I used to think that, but I got hooked on AC and electric windows. And
then I decided I liked the push-button on the key to unlock the doors.
The electric thing to adjust the side mirrors is pretty neat too.
Fuck, I've gone over to the dark side.
On 7/8/26 20:56, Ed P wrote:
Don't forget remote start when the temperature is very high or low.
Sorry, that seems stupid.-a SoCal is never that cold and the car takes
maybe 5 minutes for the AC to be fully cold, and I'm not willing to just
let it sit idling for that long.-a I'm tough.-a I can deal with shit.
I don't keep a car past the warranty period.
Wow.-a I don't get rid of a car until it won't work any more or won't
pass the smog test.-a I've always been really good at picking used cars,
but now I'm not so sure -- but I couldn't see a reason to NOT buy the
2013 Corolla.
On 7/9/2026 12:21 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 7/8/26 20:56, Ed P wrote:
Don't forget remote start when the temperature is very high or low.
Sorry, that seems stupid.-a SoCal is never that cold and the car takes
maybe 5 minutes for the AC to be fully cold, and I'm not willing to just
let it sit idling for that long.-a I'm tough.-a I can deal with shit.
I don't keep a car past the warranty period.
In sunny Florida, a car sitting in the sun can be 140 inside in a short
time. In CT it was below zero some days. Not so stupid in the extremes.
My mom's Caddy was the first "nice" car I ever had. POS. I spent wayWow.-a I don't get rid of a car until it won't work any more or won't
pass the smog test.-a I've always been really good at picking used cars,
but now I'm not so sure -- but I couldn't see a reason to NOT buy the
2013 Corolla.
I've had plenty of used cars, I've done plenty of work on them too.
They are more complex and expensive to fix so I prefer to trade in by
end of warranty. Too many fixes that can be very expensive and I like a
nice car.
On 2026-07-09 03:21:31 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/8/26 15:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 20:08:39 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63 >>>>>> years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by >>>>> myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes. You need a bolt >>>> cutter for a brass stem. Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed. They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just >>>> going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
I have yet to find any silly tyre pressure warning system that actually >>> works. My mother's old VW Polo used to constantly complain about tyre
pressure, despite being nothing wrong with the tyre. Even VW themselves >>> couldn't work out why and their only solution was an expensive sensor
replacement - she instead simply replaced the car.
They were Ok when they worked. I filled the tires to 35 lbs and I got
a warning when one of them went down to 24 (later on 28, but not for
long). Good enough.
AutoZone prices vary between $6 and $1400 -- roughly. More reading is
necessary, but I doubt it's worth it. I have a cute little electronic
gauge which also talks and the $35 Harbor Freight pump. Reasonably
convenient, although the rechargeable ones seem pretty slick. Nice to
not have to keep unscrewing the hose because the gauge on the pump is
flakey. Why don't they have quick-release connectors like bicycle
hand-pumps?
There are similar problems with most of the other pointless gimmickry
that manufacturers now add to their cars. :-( Thank goodness my own
car is over 30 years old and doesn't have any such silliness.
I used to think that, but I got hooked on AC and electric windows. And
then I decided I liked the push-button on the key to unlock the doors.
The electric thing to adjust the side mirrors is pretty neat too.
Fuck, I've gone over to the dark side.
I was meaning the gimmicky sensor-based things, such as "lane assist",
which is utterly hopeless where road marking are faded or non-existant
(and can be damn dangerous in cars where it keeps trying to steer
iteslf back into teh "lane").
My mom's Caddy was the first "nice" car I ever had.-a POS.-a I spent way
too much trying to solve the throttle problem (I have witnesses to show
that my foot was NOT on the gas pedal when it suddenly maximized acceleration all by itself) and sent it to the knackers with a brand-new brake system. This was a car with under 90K miles. I'll trade "nice" for "reliable" and "trouble-free" any day of the week.I/we always fixed our
cars and motorcycles ourselves except for things that actually required
a hoist.-a BUT I've done that long enough and don't want to do it any
more, which is why I bought the Corolla to replace my mom's murderous
Caddy.
We had a rental car that beeped when we got too close to the line. Fortunately there was an owner's manual included.-a What kind of idiot
would tolerate that?-a A friend loves his backup camera, and I can see
how that would be nice;-a it's harder and harder to see out of the car windows (styling choice by ALL the designers), especially for short
people, and our necks NEVER want to do more twisting than they have to.
I don't think I'll live long enough to trust auto-drive.
I was meaning the gimmicky sensor-based things, such as "lane assist",
which is utterly hopeless where road marking are faded or non-existant
(and can be damn dangerous in cars where it keeps trying to steer iteslf
back into teh "lane").
On 7/9/2026 11:57 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
My mom's Caddy was the first "nice" car I ever had.-a POS.-a I spent way
too much trying to solve the throttle problem (I have witnesses to show
that my foot was NOT on the gas pedal when it suddenly maximized
acceleration all by itself) and sent it to the knackers with a brand-new
brake system. This was a car with under 90K miles. I'll trade "nice" for
"reliable" and "trouble-free" any day of the week.I/we always fixed our
cars and motorcycles ourselves except for things that actually required
a hoist.-a BUT I've done that long enough and don't want to do it any
more, which is why I bought the Corolla to replace my mom's murderous
Caddy.
My last GM car was a 2001 Buick. Seems they were on a downward trend
and I'd not touch another one. I gave that one away after 6 years,
would have been criminal to take money for it.
On 7/9/2026 12:04 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
My last two cars have Highway Drive Assist. No beeps. It will keep you centered and will follow the curves, but you have to keep your hand on
We had a rental car that beeped when we got too close to the line.
Fortunately there was an owner's manual included.-a What kind of idiot
would tolerate that?-a A friend loves his backup camera, and I can see
how that would be nice;-a it's harder and harder to see out of the car
windows (styling choice by ALL the designers), especially for short
people, and our necks NEVER want to do more twisting than they have to.
I don't think I'll live long enough to trust auto-drive.
the wheel.
A couple of times a year I take a fairly long trip. Using the adaptive
cruise control and HDA I'm comfortable driving many more miles. I've
done over 900 miles in a day on the first day, 400 to destination the
next. Much is I-95
Agree on the auto-drive. Oh, I also stop and rest stops and recline the seat, put my head down for a few minutes. Makes a big difference.9 years ago I drove straight through LA to Houston, stayed there one day
Plus there isn't much scenery in west Texas so we didn't miss anything driving at night.
On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 14:32:26 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
Plus there isn't much scenery in west Texas so we didn't miss anything
driving at night.
Actually most of the scenery in Texas is in West Texas snuggled up to New Mexico.
And New Mexico and Arizona are almost Utah
On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 21:05:11 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
And New Mexico and Arizona are almost Utah
Getting from Utah to Arizona can be interesting. Then there is the chunk
of Arizona that you can't get to from Arizona.
On 7/9/26 23:33, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 21:05:11 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
And New Mexico and Arizona are almost Utah
Getting from Utah to Arizona can be interesting. Then there is the
chunk of Arizona that you can't get to from Arizona.
I would guess that there are lots of places in all three places you
can't get to except on foot, or maybe with a motorcycle -- or not at
all, within reason. It will be sad when that's no longer true.
On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 08:46:00 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
On 7/9/26 23:33, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 21:05:11 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
And New Mexico and Arizona are almost Utah
Getting from Utah to Arizona can be interesting. Then there is the
chunk of Arizona that you can't get to from Arizona.
I would guess that there are lots of places in all three places you
can't get to except on foot, or maybe with a motorcycle -- or not at
all, within reason. It will be sad when that's no longer true.
Those are plenty of those but I was thinking of the difficulties created
by the canyons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_in_the_Rock_(rock_formation)
I've driven out to the site. I stopped abut a mile short and walked, discouraged by the oil stains on the rocks from previous torn up oil pans.
The choices still are limited.The road to/from Lee's Ferry has really cool stuff. Who among us does
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Canyon_Dam_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lees_Ferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Bridge
Unless you walk or ride a mule down through Phantom Ranch it's over 100--
miles from the South to North divisions of Grand Canyon NP. Toroweap is
even further off the beaten path.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroweap_Overlook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Strip
Best road trips ever were in Utah.-a It's really not fair that they got
so much pretty stuff.-a Makes me feel sorry for the poor people east of
the Rockies. Trees are nice, but after a while you get tired of green :-)
On 7/10/2026 4:00 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Best road trips ever were in Utah.-a It's really not fair that they got
so much pretty stuff.-a Makes me feel sorry for the poor people east of
the Rockies. Trees are nice, but after a while you get tired of green :-)
I was born and grew up in Box Elder County Utah ... and I moved to
the Midsouth because I wanted to see green instead of shades of brown
and sagebrush green . We live in north central Arkansas now (Memphis for
30 years) and even in winter there's something green . Instead of
snowmobiles we have ATV's and 4WD tractors to get around in the woods .
And the roads here in the Ozarks beat anything I ever rode in Utah .
Look up Push Mountain Road and Hwy 9 from Sylamore to Melbourne -
There are tons of slot canyons, most of which are too far for ME to
walk,
but the photos are spectacular. Fortunately the Navajos give easy tours
to one or two out of Page. Book ahead.
I was born and grew up in Box Elder County Utah ... and I moved to
the Midsouth because I wanted to see green instead of shades of brown
and sagebrush green . We live in north central Arkansas now (Memphis for
30 years) and even in winter there's something green . Instead of
snowmobiles we have ATV's and 4WD tractors to get around in the woods .
And the roads here in the Ozarks beat anything I ever rode in Utah .
Look up Push Mountain Road and Hwy 9 from Sylamore to Melbourne -
On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 17:06:49 -0500, Snag wrote:
I was born and grew up in Box Elder County Utah ... and I moved to
the Midsouth because I wanted to see green instead of shades of brown
and sagebrush green . We live in north central Arkansas now (Memphis for
30 years) and even in winter there's something green . Instead of
snowmobiles we have ATV's and 4WD tractors to get around in the woods .
And the roads here in the Ozarks beat anything I ever rode in Utah .
Look up Push Mountain Road and Hwy 9 from Sylamore to Melbourne -
I've spent time in southern AZ but sooner or later I want to see real
trees. I've lived close to the Canadian border most of my life and while I bitch about winter I'm used to it.
The Ozarks certainly are scenic. I went up Petit Jean Mountain with a 53' trailer. No fun. Went around one hairpin and the truck stopped moving. The drivers were off the ground and it was trying to roll over but couldn't because of the angle between the tractor and the trailer.
Every damn goat trail in Arkansas is marked as a truck route in the
truckers atlas. Couldn't turn around by the time I realized I was screwed. The guy in the wrecker told me not to feel bad. A couple of weeks beforg
he had to rescue a wide load that the state had routed over the mountain.
Last time through the are I was in the Missouri Ozarks. Snore. Ain't the same.Nothing ever is.
There are trees all over, you just have to look for them!
'The Long Long Trailer', a Lucille Ball movie from the 50s. They haul a trailer over Tioga Pass (Yosemite) back when it was a narrow 1-way dirt
road with steep dropoffs. My parents and I did it in an ordinary car,
and it was plenty scary.
There are marked snowmobile-only trails in Brian Head, UT. Every once
in a while a "Hold my beer" guy (frequently from Kalifornia) will use
one in his expensive 4WD vehicle and get hopelessly stuck. The local
wrecker apparently makes a nice living from these guys. (AAA won't
touch you if you're off road.)
On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 15:57:14 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
There are trees all over, you just have to look for them!
The jury is out on whether mesquite and ironwood classify as 'real trees'.
I mean when you're shorter than a damn cactus...
https://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/ifnm_ironwoodtree.php
'The Long Long Trailer', a Lucille Ball movie from the 50s. They haul a
trailer over Tioga Pass (Yosemite) back when it was a narrow 1-way dirt
road with steep dropoffs. My parents and I did it in an ordinary car,
and it was plenty scary.
My parents and I drove to Seattle from upstate NY to visit my brother in
'52. The vehicle was a '51 Chevy. It was paved but US 14 over the Big Horn Mountains was interesting. Narrow road, no guard rails, and tandem log
trucks coming down. I went over it again a few years ago but it was so
foggy I couldn't see much. I always remember being able to look up the mountain and see the vehicles on the next traverse.
It's interesting what a little kid remembers. I was fascinated by the
paint pots in Yellowstone. I got back there in '88 and they weren't as impressive as I remembered. I asked a ranger and he said the '59
earthquake that created Quake Lake had indeed affected the paint pots. '88 was memorable in its own way. Yellowstone was on fire and after years of aggressive suppression they decided to let it burn.
There are marked snowmobile-only trails in Brian Head, UT. Every once
in a while a "Hold my beer" guy (frequently from Kalifornia) will use
one in his expensive 4WD vehicle and get hopelessly stuck. The local
wrecker apparently makes a nice living from these guys. (AAA won't
touch you if you're off road.)
There's a back road north from Zion that I took. I turned around when I
hit the drifts. One early summer I went up to a little lake west of the Seeley-Swan valley. I came to the drifted area, parked the bike, and
walked the rest of the way. Coming out I saw fresh tracks where someone
had tried to bust through. It gets worse. It was a guy towing a camper.
The road is very narrow with a steep dropoff to the canyon. and I had just enough room to carefully get past on the DR650. Even better, the sun was going down and he had about a half mile more to back down before there was
a wide enough place to drop the trailer and get the mess turned around. I offered to help but there wasn't anything I could do.
There are several passes here that aren't snowmobile trails but theyThe natives probably strip the bodies after the spring thaw.
aren't maintained in the winter. The sport with the 4WD crowd is to see
how far they can get in the spring but sometimes a tourist looks at a map,
or maybe believes his GPS, and tries to take the shortcut. Most of them survive.
I think that to be classified as a tree it has to provide significant
shade. Joshua "trees" don't cut it. Neither do those tall palm "trees"
ith just a tuft of leaves at the top, although the fronds are good at
falling off and damaging cars. They may be coconut palms, and some
number of people are killed every year by falling coconuts. I guess
there are worse ways to go.
I don't think I've ever seen an ironwood. We only went south to go to
the Mexican dentists, a nasty 2-way drive.
Probably still lots of roads like that. The Moki-Dugway road between
Mexican Hat and Utah 95 is almost like that, but wide enough for cars to
pass and paved now. Spectacular views.
Just think-- some people get on a plane and spend 2 weeks lying on a
beach somewhere. Hard to believe. I used to be able to back a trailer
as long as I could see it, but there was no way I could back the MC
trailer behind the 27-foot monsterhome. The idea of what that guy had
to do is terrifying.
The natives probably strip the bodies after the spring thaw.
On 7/8/26 15:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-08 20:08:39 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 7/7/26 14:52, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-07-07 12:11:56 +0000, Ed P said:
I only know my experience. I've owned about 25 cars over the last 63 >>>>> years. Number of tire valves replaced: 0
Yep. I have never heard of a tyre valve failing on any car driven by
myself, or those driven by family, friends, or company cars.
OTOH, you can cut off a rubber valve stem with dykes. You need a bolt
cutter for a brass stem. Some people aren't satisfied with just
pulling out the cores and throwing them into the weeds.
A month after I bought new tires one (or more) of the TPMS units
failed. They were 10 years old, like the car. If I'd known about
their 10-year life I would have replaced them -- maybe. Now I'm just
going to put a piece of black tape over the indicator light.
I have yet to find any silly tyre pressure warning system that actually
works. My mother's old VW Polo used to constantly complain about tyre
pressure, despite being nothing wrong with the tyre. Even VW themselves
couldn't work out why and their only solution was an expensive sensor
replacement - she instead simply replaced the car.
They were Ok when they worked. I filled the tires to 35 lbs and I got
a warning when one of them went down to 24 (later on 28, but not for
long). Good enough.
AutoZone prices vary between $6 and $1400 -- roughly. More reading is necessary, but I doubt it's worth it. I have a cute little electronic
gauge which also talks and the $35 Harbor Freight pump. Reasonably convenient, although the rechargeable ones seem pretty slick. Nice to
not have to keep unscrewing the hose because the gauge on the pump is flakey. Why don't they have quick-release connectors like bicycle hand-pumps?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 19:37:11 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
I think that to be classified as a tree it has to provide significant
shade. Joshua "trees" don't cut it. Neither do those tall palm "trees"
ith just a tuft of leaves at the top, although the fronds are good at
falling off and damaging cars. They may be coconut palms, and some
number of people are killed every year by falling coconuts. I guess
there are worse ways to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajo,_Arizona
Ajo has palms around the plaza that get a haircut every now and then to
keep them neat. They obviously don't belong there but it's a nice touch. Outside of town is the usual mesquite/creosote bush/saguaro mix with some cholla thrown in for general misery. Joshua trees peter out north of the Phoenix valley.
I don't think I've ever seen an ironwood. We only went south to go to
the Mexican dentists, a nasty 2-way drive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olneya
You've got to be up close and personal to sort them from the mesquite.
Some of the people around Ajo and Why would go to Sonoita for dentistry.
It's right across the border from Lukeville so it's not a bad drive.
There were two dentists in town but only one had an x-ray machine. I you needed x-rays at the other place you walked down to the 'competition' and
he took them. I think it's a statement on US practice where everybody has
to have their own MRI and other expensive equipment.
Probably still lots of roads like that. The Moki-Dugway road between
Mexican Hat and Utah 95 is almost like that, but wide enough for cars to
pass and paved now. Spectacular views.
Definitely spectacular. The Maze is a section of Canyonlands NP that is
west of the river and doesn't get much attention. There are old roads
created by uranium explorers and others. The ranger station before you go down has a scrapbook showing people negotiating the switchbacks. There
isn't any requirement for vehicles to enter but after seeing the CJ-5s I decided my 2WD F150 wasn't up for the trip. I think there is one route
where you have to back down alternate legs of the switchbacks.
Just think-- some people get on a plane and spend 2 weeks lying on a
beach somewhere. Hard to believe. I used to be able to back a trailer
as long as I could see it, but there was no way I could back the MC
trailer behind the 27-foot monsterhome. The idea of what that guy had
to do is terrifying.
He was lucky it was a pickup and a relatively short camp trailer. Even
then. I drove OTR in the '90s and got fairly good at backing in 53'
trailers; the short ones are even harder. I would sometimes pull doubles
and I never could back those up more than 3'. I was happy when the company got rid of them. Carpet was a money maker and you could get 2 rows of 12' carpet rolls in a 27' trailer but you couldn't get 4 rows in a 48'. When
they went to 53' trailers you could get 4 rows. In the '90s they started lifting the restrictions on 53s so that was the way to go.
Last time we drove the road next to the Rogue pretty much every propertyThe natives probably strip the bodies after the spring thaw.
No waste. There is a road that sort of follows the Rogue River from
Medford to Gold Beach. Some guy believed the GPS about the shortcut and
took it in the winter. When they got bogged down he went for help and
died. His wife and kid stayed with the car and were rescued. I've been through that area in the summer. Scenic. There is a trail up Mt. Bolivar with great views. Still and all I was happy when I finally got back to civilization.
Turns out that the friend had forgotten his passport,
so he ducked down and I walked in with our passports to the border
station. Not certain what we did when we came back finally. Maybe we
just drove across because the border patrol had gone home.
Some places are just BETTER on a motorcycle. I'm glad we did Monument
Valley on motorcycles long ago -- definitely more fun than the Yaris in
2015.
Last time we drove the road next to the Rogue pretty much every property
next to the river was for sale. I think logging had moved to the south
and there were no jobs.
Some places are just BETTER on a motorcycle. I'm glad we did Monument
Valley on motorcycles long ago -- definitely more fun than the Yaris in
2015.
Yeah, but the Yaris has some creature comforts.
I took a ride-about around
Halloween one year and took 191 from Three Way up to Show low. Nice
ride but it was a bit of a surprise when I came around a curve north
of Alpine and found myself in snow. I was happy it didn't last long.
4 wheels definitely better than 2 in snow.
The company I worked for hauled a lot of carpet and furniture. They're
pretty good indicators of economic health and Medford wasn't getting much
of either. There was a diner with a sign advertising spotted owl stew.
https://pacificlegal.org/spotted-owl-soup-and-other-northwest-memories/
I liked Medford. I carried a bicycle on the truck and there was a bike
path lined with blackberries. I could fill a 1 gallon freezer bag in no
time. Those things are mean. Kudzu with thorns.
Good dirt riding at Kennedy Meadows. 9-Mile Canyon road is kind of like Moki-Dugway, but wider and much less scenic. Went up CA 99 on July 4 to
the start and found it closed due to snow. WTF? THIS IS DESERT! We
tried riding in snow once. 100 feet was plenty.
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