From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how the
2026 PU's power comes
50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the MGU)? It's not a PHEV FFS,
all of the power is coming
from the ICE. Some of it is pushed into a battery and then deployed by
the MGU but it all comes
from the ICE.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far (as well as Ted's notebooks)
and they keep prattling on about the new regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits
mentioned or explained that all of the power
actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

IrCOm a child in these matters, but surely energy is recovered under braking (ERS)? Or is your argument that the speed needed for the brakes to generate electricity is created by the ICE in the first place?
--
Sir Tim
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2026-02-15 2:24am, ~misfit~ wrote:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how the 2026 PU's power comes 50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the MGU)?
It's not a PHEV FFS, all of the power is coming from the ICE. Some of it
is pushed into a battery and then deployed by the MGU but it all comes
from the ICE.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far
(as well as Ted's notebooks) and they keep prattling on about the new
regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits mentioned or
explained that all of the power actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

What I don't understand is why the talking heads keep insisting that
low-drag mode is completely, utterly, entirely different than DRS. From
what I understand, it's only different in that it can be used no matter
how close or far the driver in front is, and that the front wing also
opens up. And yet Alex and Alex keep banging on about how totally
different it is.

I suppose it is probably a good sign if that's the most tiresome thing
so far :D
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

In article <mvdom4Ft2ccU1@mid.individual.net>, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how the 2026 PU's power comes
50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the MGU)? It's not a PHEV FFS,
all of the power is coming
from the ICE. Some of it is pushed into a battery and then deployed by
the MGU but it all comes
from the ICE.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far (as well as Ted's notebooks)
and they keep prattling on about the new regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits
mentioned or explained that all of the power
actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

IrCOm a child in these matters, but surely energy is recovered under braking (ERS)? Or is your argument that the speed needed for the brakes to generate electricity is created by the ICE in the first place?

I've read various talk about drivers doing bizarre/extreme gear downshifts
to charge the battery - taking a corner in 1st rather than 2nd (or even
3rd) to dump energy into the battery - so, afaiui, it's not necessarily generated by braking - it's engine power. Again, disclaimer, I have not bothered to pore over the new regs for the details on this, I plan to wait until the first race weekend and catch up on it all then as I am sure it
will be pretty much one of the main talking points on race weekend 1!
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 16/02/2026 8:56 am, scole wrote:

In article <mvdom4Ft2ccU1@mid.individual.net>, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how the >>> 2026 PU's power comes
50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the MGU)? It's not a PHEV FFS,
all of the power is coming
from the ICE. Some of it is pushed into a battery and then deployed by
the MGU but it all comes
from the ICE.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far (as >>> well as Ted's notebooks)
and they keep prattling on about the new regs. Not once has any of the
multitude of pundits
mentioned or explained that all of the power
actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

IrCOm a child in these matters, but surely energy is recovered under braking >> (ERS)? Or is your argument that the speed needed for the brakes to generate >> electricity is created by the ICE in the first place?

That is part of it, regenerative braking - and yes, the energy being 'recovered' came from the ICE.

I've read various talk about drivers doing bizarre/extreme gear downshifts
to charge the battery - taking a corner in 1st rather than 2nd (or even
3rd) to dump energy into the battery -

It's not just to charge the battery - it's also to keep the turbo spooled. Now they don't have the
MGU-H to pre-spool the turbo there is a lot more off-power revving going on. Standing starts are a
lot noisier now, they're revving for a full 5 seconds to build boost before dumping the clutch.

so, afaiui, it's not necessarily
generated by braking - it's engine power. Again, disclaimer, I have not bothered to pore over the new regs for the details on this, I plan to wait until the first race weekend and catch up on it all then as I am sure it
will be pretty much one of the main talking points on race weekend 1!

As well as the extreme downshifts during the first test a lot of drivers were locking up / over
shooting corners* as so much more of the braking is being done by the rear axle / MGU now. (I don't
know why they didn't go the whole hog and put a GU on the front axles like Formula E have but
that's another story...)

Also there is what the teams are calling 'super-clipping'. This is where the ICE is revving /
working and producing far more power than the car needs for forward movement is slow speed areas.
During this phase the ICE is actually having a large chunk of it's output bled off (braked) by the
MGU to charge the battery.

My peeve was that the pundits were saying that the power was being provided by 50/50 ICE and MGU.
It wouldn't have bothered my if they'd been saying it was DEPLOYED 50/50 by ICE and MGU.

With the 25% reduction in amount of fuel allowed this year as well as it being fully 'sustainable'
and no MHU-H to pre-spool and harvest I think this is going to be a step back for F1. Definitely in
regards to lap times.

Also I've got a fair grasp of technical things but the removal of DRS only to replace it with
'overtake mode' (an electric boost they get if they're within 1 second of the leading car at a
single detection point for a whole lap) seems silly.

Then there's the movable aero. Two modes, straight and corner. If they're keeping a passing aid
when within 1 second of the leading car why change from the old DRS? It's largely because there is
much less power available to cars this year so to keep lap times remotely respectable they need to
be able to bleed aero drag on every straight.

Then there's 'boost mode', a tool that drivers can use any time they want to attack or defend (can
be used in conjunction with 'overtake mode'). The downside is it drains the battery more. This
seems superfluous to me - why complicate things with THREE 'go-fast' modes? This could just be part
of the software and not need to be talked about IMO.

As if the cognitive load on the drivers isn't increased enough this year there's also three
different flash codes from the cars tail lights now. Single fast flash, double fast flash and
triple fast flash all designed to impart information to a following driver. So now as well as all
the other settings they're dealing with they're expected to spend more time watching the rear of
cars ahead?

* So the reason a lot of drivers have been over-shooting corners under braking is that the software
is dynamically adjusting how much braking needs to be done by the rear axle to maintain the SoC
(State of Charge of the battery) lap by lap. So if a driver's been braking at the 50m marker with a
60/40 front/rear braking split and settled into a groove, then he uses boost mode as well as having
had overtake mode for a lap next time he comes to that corner the software decides the battery
needs a 40/60 front/rear braking split. Result? The car doesn't have the same braking performance
and if the driver brakes at the same marker he goes wide or locks up - or hits the car he's trying
to overtake. To me this is shades of Bernie's turning sprinklers on randomly to spice up the spectacle.

I really enjoy F1 but at this stage of the new regs this all seems a bit too much Mario Kart++
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

In article <10mtj70$drqg$1@dont-email.me>, ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:
<respectful snip>

I really enjoy F1 but at this stage of the new regs this all seems a bit

too much Mario Kart++

Thanks for all that, very interesting. It's going to be a hell of a first
few races while everyone gets used to all this new madness! I am looking forward to it. Just hopeful that it settles down quickly and we can see
some good close racing and have at least a few teams consistently fighting
each other for the podium - the last couple of seasons have been a real
treat.
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2026-02-15 01:24, ~misfit~ wrote:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how the 2026 PU's power comes 50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the MGU)?
It's not a PHEV FFS, all of the power is coming from the ICE. Some of it
is pushed into a battery and then deployed by the MGU but it all comes
from the ICE.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far
(as well as Ted's notebooks) and they keep prattling on about the new
regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits mentioned or
explained that all of the power actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

You need to learn the difference between "power" and "energy".

And I would also bet large without even checking that the battery starts
the race fully charged, and that energy (not "power") doesn't come from
the ICE.

And a quick check reveals that that's not quite right, but close:

The battery starts out at something around 85% charge, because (and I
should have thought of this) the braking system is regenerative and if
the battery were charged to 100%, there might not be sufficient capacity
to take the energy from the first braking event.

So after that initial charge in the pits, all the energy that the
battery has will come from the ICE...

...but power is another story.

"Power" is a measure of the rate at which energy is USED.

So the pundits are correct.

:-)
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> writes:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how
the 2026 PU's power comes 50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the
MGU)? It's not a PHEV FFS, all of the power is coming from the
ICE. Some of it is pushed into a battery and then deployed by the MGU
but it all comes from the ICE.

All the power's coming from the sun. Some of it is pushed into trees and dinousaurs and then refined into what goes in the ICU's fuel tank, but
it all comes from the sun.

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far
(as well as Ted's notebooks) and they keep prattling on about the new
regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits mentioned or
explained that all of the power actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

Technically, it's even worse for your stance, as they're more correct
than you appreciate. Power is instantanious delivery of energy, the rate
at which it is being delivered. Once you're buffering that in some form
of storage, it doesn't even make sense to talk about its power. Stored
stuff is stored, while it's stored its power is zero. It's only at the
point of release of that energy that you can start talking about power
again, and that's entirely a function of the batteries the electric
motors, and the copper cables between them.

Races start in only a matter of days - time for the rants to begin! :)

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/
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From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 3/03/2026 3:44 am, Phil Carmody wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> writes:

Is any one else getting sick of hearing pudits waffling on about how
the 2026 PU's power comes 50/50 from the ICE and the battery (via the
MGU)? It's not a PHEV FFS, all of the power is coming from the
ICE. Some of it is pushed into a battery and then deployed by the MGU
but it all comes from the ICE.

All the power's coming from the sun. Some of it is pushed into trees and dinousaurs and then refined into what goes in the ICU's fuel tank, but
it all comes from the sun.

Yep. I've always maintained that hydro power is in fact solar power by proxy (the sun drives the
water cycle after all). The only power sources I'm still not 100% sure of originating with our sun
are geothermal and nuclear. However the power sources for both were ultimately stars...

I've watched the Sky 1 hour wrap-ups of the three days testing so far
(as well as Ted's notebooks) and they keep prattling on about the new
regs. Not once has any of the multitude of pundits mentioned or
explained that all of the power actually comes from the ICE.

Ok, as you were. Rant over. ;)

Technically, it's even worse for your stance, as they're more correct
than you appreciate. Power is instantanious delivery of energy, the rate
at which it is being delivered. Once you're buffering that in some form
of storage, it doesn't even make sense to talk about its power. Stored
stuff is stored, while it's stored its power is zero. It's only at the
point of release of that energy that you can start talking about power
again, and that's entirely a function of the batteries the electric
motors, and the copper cables between them.

Yeah yeah... You out-nerded me! I have a background in the sciences but must admit that it's not
used a lot these days. With regard to cars I tend to leave my scholar hat off and conflate power
and energy. Ma bad.

Races start in only a matter of days - time for the rants to begin! :)

I'm waiting for the people who bemoaned the change in exhaust note from N/A cars to turbo cars to
realise that with this formula hearing an ICE revving won't equate to the driver powering the
wheels. They could well sound like a generator on wheels, albeit going through a gearbox (other
than in braking zones).

Cheers.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.
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