From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

I just read about something I'd never heard about before: red diesel fuel.
It's the same as regular diesel except that a red dye has been added so that
it can be detected by law enforcement.

The basic concept is that some vehicles and equipment (farm tractors, generators, construction cranes, etc.) that run on diesel fuel never operate
on the public roads and are therefore exempt from fuel taxes. But of course
the unscrupulous would just buy the fuel claiming it was for an exempt
machine, then put it in their pickup truck or 18-wheeler to evade the tax. Hence the red dye, which allows an inspector or cop to instantly tell if the fuel is being fraudulently used.

And of course, the government has managed to find an invisible exception to
the 4th Amendment allowing it to perform gas tank inspections without a
warrant or probable cause. In fact, mere failure to give consent to an inspection gets you an automatic $1000 fine.

The legal analysis starts out promising-- in initial legal challenges, taking fuel from a vehicle's tank was treated as a 4th Amendment search. Courts rejected the government's argument that gas tank contents are in "plain view" and therefore not subject to 4th Amendment restrictions.

However, Congress then gave the IRS specific statutory power to:

(1) enter places where taxable fuel is produced or stored,

(2) detain a vehicle on those premises or at a designated inspection site,
and

(3) sample fuel to determine composition

Examples of a designated site are weigh stations, agricultural checkpoints, or other location the IRS or state DOT has identified as a fuel-inspection site. Refusal to allow an inspection can trigger a $1000 civil penalty.

Federal courts have upheld this scheme as a warrantless administrative inspection under New York v. Burger (closely regulated industry / special needs): tax enforcement is a substantial government interest, surprise inspections are needed for the scheme to work, and the statute limits who may inspect, where, and how. Lievesley v. Commissioner, 985 F. Supp. 206 (D. Mass. 1997), held that an IRS diesel-inspection stop is consistent with the 4th Amendment. The IRS has cited that analysis since.

The court in Lievesley did note that if the property where a vehicle is
located is entirely private and non-commercial, i.e., parked on a residential driveway, the standard 4th Amendment analysis requiring probable cause and a warrant for entry would apply.

It's always a fun day when I discover yet another exciting exception to the
4th Amendment that the courts have magically created out of thin air for the benefit of the government, despite the Constitution's explicit language to the contrary.


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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

I just read about something I'd never heard about before: red diesel fuel. >It's the same as regular diesel except that a red dye has been added so that >it can be detected by law enforcement.

Dyed fuel not subject to motor fuel taxes has been a thing for decades.
I buy ethanol-free gasoline for my lawnmower's four-stroke engine.
Ethanol is hydrophilic so small engines run poorly. I was surprised it
wasn't dyed but it's too expensive for driving.

. . .

Very interesting write up.

It's always a fun day when I discover yet another exciting exception to the >4th Amendment that the courts have magically created out of thin air for the >benefit of the government, despite the Constitution's explicit language to the >contrary.

What about the rest of the Internal Revenue Code? It violates self incrimination, takings, and cruel and unusual punishment.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-28 2:22 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

I just read about something I'd never heard about before: red diesel fuel. >> It's the same as regular diesel except that a red dye has been added so that >> it can be detected by law enforcement.

Dyed fuel not subject to motor fuel taxes has been a thing for decades.
I buy ethanol-free gasoline for my lawnmower's four-stroke engine.
Ethanol is hydrophilic so small engines run poorly. I was surprised it
wasn't dyed but it's too expensive for driving.

I've never heard of hydrophilic fuel. Where do you buy it? I've never
seen anything like that at a gas station.

. . .

Very interesting write up.

It's always a fun day when I discover yet another exciting exception to the >> 4th Amendment that the courts have magically created out of thin air for the >> benefit of the government, despite the Constitution's explicit language to the
contrary.

What about the rest of the Internal Revenue Code? It violates self incrimination, takings, and cruel and unusual punishment.

--
Rhino
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2026-09-28 2:22 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

I just read about something I'd never heard about before: red diesel fuel. >>>It's the same as regular diesel except that a red dye has been added so that >>>it can be detected by law enforcement.

Dyed fuel not subject to motor fuel taxes has been a thing for decades.
I buy ethanol-free gasoline for my lawnmower's four-stroke engine.
Ethanol is hydrophilic so small engines run poorly. I was surprised it >>wasn't dyed but it's too expensive for driving.

I've never heard of hydrophilic fuel. Where do you buy it? I've never
seen anything like that at a gas station.

Ethanol-blended gasoline is terrible motor fuel, especially for small
engines. The ethanol is hydrophilic, which means it absorbs water from
the atmosphere. You don't want this.

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like NAPA. It's
hideously expensive, but a small engine uses just a few gallons all
summer.

Where ethanol-blended motor fuel is required to be sold by law for transportation in the public way, it cannot be sold at gas stations.

. . .

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-28 11:32 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2026-09-28 2:22 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

I just read about something I'd never heard about before: red diesel fuel. >>>> It's the same as regular diesel except that a red dye has been added so that
it can be detected by law enforcement.

Dyed fuel not subject to motor fuel taxes has been a thing for decades.
I buy ethanol-free gasoline for my lawnmower's four-stroke engine.
Ethanol is hydrophilic so small engines run poorly. I was surprised it
wasn't dyed but it's too expensive for driving.

I've never heard of hydrophilic fuel. Where do you buy it? I've never
seen anything like that at a gas station.

Ethanol-blended gasoline is terrible motor fuel, especially for small engines. The ethanol is hydrophilic, which means it absorbs water from
the atmosphere. You don't want this.

I knew that ethanol had issues, I just wasn't aware that there was ethanol-free gas on the market. In fact, I heard recently that they're changing the standard formulation of gas station petrol from 10% ethanol
to 15% despite knowing that it's going to damage car engines even more
than 10% ethanol does. I don't understand how they get away with that.
It should subject them to a massive class action suit from everyone who
drives a gas-engined car.

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like NAPA. It's
hideously expensive, but a small engine uses just a few gallons all
summer.

That makes good sense. Do you run the hydrophilic in your snowblower too?

Where ethanol-blended motor fuel is required to be sold by law for transportation in the public way, it cannot be sold at gas stations.

I don't understand how that kind of law can withstand a court challenge.

. . .

--
Rhino
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

Adam wrote:

. . .

I knew that ethanol had issues, I just wasn't aware that there was >ethanol-free gas on the market. In fact, I heard recently that they're >changing the standard formulation of gas station petrol from 10% ethanol
to 15% despite knowing that it's going to damage car engines even more
than 10% ethanol does. I don't understand how they get away with that.
It should subject them to a massive class action suit from everyone who >drives a gas-engined car.

Burning ethanol pollutes like crazy, especially ozone, thr precursor for photochemical smog and a pollutant in its own right. It's less energy
dense and more acidic, harming plastic fuel lines.

It's fake pollution mitigation and entirely about subsidizing corn
growers.

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like NAPA. It's >>hideously expensive, but a small engine uses just a few gallons all
summer.

That makes good sense. Do you run the hydrophilic in your snowblower too?

Pure gasoline is non-hydrophilic. I own no snowblower.

. . .

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

In <119e5k2$2d8rm$1@dont-email.me> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> writes:

[snip]

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like NAPA. It's
hideously expensive, but a small engine uses just a few gallons all
summer.

That makes good sense. Do you run the hydrophilic in your snowblower too?

very roughly ten percent of the gas stations I pass by have
"clean", that is, "ethanol free", gasoline at one of their
pumps. It's typically a dollar/gallon more than the others.

So it's worth checking out your local gas statsion.

(There are a couple of web sites that try to map them
out but everytime I've checked they've been filled with
errors and misses)

Note that e-10, e-15, and (shudder) e-85 reduce car mileage
significantly, by roughly half the ethanol percentage..

(so yes, adding ethanol to gas is a kind of hidden price increase
since you have to buy more.)
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Adam H. Kerman wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2026-09-28 2:22 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

I just read about something I'd never heard about
before: red diesel fuel. It's the same as regular diesel
except that a red dye has been added so that it can be
detected by law enforcement.

Dyed fuel not subject to motor fuel taxes has been a
thing for decades. I buy ethanol-free gasoline for my
lawnmower's four-stroke engine. Ethanol is hydrophilic so
small engines run poorly. I was surprised it wasn't dyed
but it's too expensive for driving.

I've never heard of hydrophilic fuel. Where do you buy it?
I've never seen anything like that at a gas station.

Ethanol-blended gasoline is terrible motor fuel,
especially for small engines. The ethanol is hydrophilic,
which means it absorbs water from the atmosphere. You
don't want this.

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like
NAPA. It's hideously expensive, but a small engine uses
just a few gallons all summer.

Where ethanol-blended motor fuel is required to be sold by
law for transportation in the public way, it cannot be
sold at gas stations.

. . .

I use non-ethanol gasoline for my mowers. It's difficult
to find, and as you say, hideously expensive, but is available
in VA at a very, very few gas stations. I used to have to
drive a fair distance to get it, the closest at one point
was 45 miles away, but I'd stockup several gas cans when I
went down there that would do me for half a season.

Luckily earlier this year my regular gas station added a
high-octane ethannol free pump. It's more expensive than
the distant one, but I make it up in not needing to travel
as far to fill my gas cans. It was pushing $5/gallon the
last time I got some a couple of months ago, so I'm
expecting closer to $6/gallon when I get a few gallons to
finish the mowing season.

The high price is worth it considering I've had no clogged
carborator problems in my mowers since I've made the switch.

As always YMMV.

Nyssa, who is very glad that she only as a few more mows
since her rider mower seems to need a new battery on top
of the high price for fuel and oil changes

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Nyssa <Nyssa@logicalinsight.net> wrote:

Adam H. Kerman wrote:

. . .

Ethanol-blended gasoline is terrible motor fuel,
especially for small engines. The ethanol is hydrophilic,
which means it absorbs water from the atmosphere. You
don't want this.

I buy ethanol-free gasoline at an auto parts store like
NAPA. It's hideously expensive, but a small engine uses
just a few gallons all summer.

Where ethanol-blended motor fuel is required to be sold by
law for transportation in the public way, it cannot be
sold at gas stations.

I use non-ethanol gasoline for my mowers. It's difficult
to find, and as you say, hideously expensive, but is available
in VA at a very, very few gas stations. I used to have to
drive a fair distance to get it, the closest at one point
was 45 miles away, but I'd stockup several gas cans when I
went down there that would do me for half a season.

Luckily earlier this year my regular gas station added a
high-octane ethannol free pump. It's more expensive than
the distant one, but I make it up in not needing to travel
as far to fill my gas cans. It was pushing $5/gallon the
last time I got some a couple of months ago, so I'm
expecting closer to $6/gallon when I get a few gallons to
finish the mowing season.

The high price is worth it considering I've had no clogged
carborator problems in my mowers since I've made the switch.

As always YMMV.

Nyssa, who is very glad that she only as a few more mows
since her rider mower seems to need a new battery on top
of the high price for fuel and oil changes

Sounds like you have a bigger lawn than me. I just have a push mower.

I don't quite understand the law but ethanol-free motor fuel cannot be
sold around here, not even with winter blend. Then we have a state line problem, with Indiana requiring fewer pollutant mitigation chemicals in
the blend. Because refineries -- the big one is in Whiting Indiana --
make smaller batches of fuel, that contributes to higher retail costs.

So I'm stuck buying it as a "part" in a gallon can which ranges from $8
to $15, but 2 to 4 gallons would last the summer.

btw, if at a gas station, the hose serves multiple tanks including an
ethanol blend, the first two gallons should be dumped as that's from the
hose, not from the tank.
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