• Trump's birthright citizenship order overturned

    From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Tue Jun 30 17:52:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Children born to parents who are in the U.S. unlawfully or temporarily
    are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S., Roberts writes. "Under
    the Constitution, they are citizens at
    birth."

    -- John Roberts, Trump v. Barbara

    All this time the debate over who is "subject to" has been about the
    child's mother or both mother and father.

    Roberts has turned the debate on its head. The issue is whether the
    child born on American soil, is "subject to".

    Chinese birth tourism? As a traveller, the mother is not resident. But I
    think the kid may claim citizenship. As far as illegal alien mothers,
    it's clear to me as she is resident but not "present" for imigration
    law. That child is an American.

    Roberts's opinion was not joinedd in full. Kavanaugh dissented in part, concurred in part. Jackson was a separatate concurrence, joined by
    Sotomayor. It seems they only concurred in part. Not sure where Kagan
    and Barrett are.

    Alito condemned it but it sounds like his historical analysis is flawed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Wed Jul 1 00:10:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Children born to parents who are in the U.S. unlawfully or temporarily
    are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S., Roberts writes. "Under
    the Constitution, they are citizens at
    birth."

    -- John Roberts, Trump v. Barbara

    All this time the debate over who is "subject to" has been about the
    child's mother or both mother and father.

    Roberts has turned the debate on its head. The issue is whether the
    child born on American soil, is "subject to".

    Chinese birth tourism? As a traveller, the mother is not resident. But I >think the kid may claim citizenship. As far as illegal alien mothers,
    it's clear to me as she is resident but not "present" for imigration
    law. That child is an American.

    Roberts's opinion was not joinedd in full. Kavanaugh dissented in part, >concurred in part. Jackson was a separatate concurrence, joined by
    Sotomayor. It seems they only concurred in part. Not sure where Kagan
    and Barrett are.

    Alito condemned it but it sounds like his historical analysis is flawed.

    I heard an interesting historical analysis of Trump's executive order,
    had it been policy at the time of enactment of the 14th Amendment. While
    the clause was written to overturn Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), given
    the concern that the 13th Amendment had not overturned the decision, it
    wasn't actually a grant of citizenship to all former slaves. There were
    still slaves being imported into the United States after the trade had
    been made illega in the Constitution. They weren't born on American soil
    and were in the country illegally. By Trump's order, had it been policy
    at the time, their children born on American soil would not have been
    children by birth.

    Think about that.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BTR1701@atropos@mac.com to rec.arts.tv on Wed Jul 1 00:43:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On Jun 30, 2026 at 5:10:54 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Children born to parents who are in the U.S. unlawfully or temporarily
    are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S., Roberts writes. "Under
    the Constitution, they are citizens at
    birth."

    -- John Roberts, Trump v. Barbara

    All this time the debate over who is "subject to" has been about the
    child's mother or both mother and father.

    Roberts has turned the debate on its head. The issue is whether the
    child born on American soil, is "subject to".

    Chinese birth tourism? As a traveller, the mother is not resident. But I
    think the kid may claim citizenship. As far as illegal alien mothers,
    it's clear to me as she is resident but not "present" for imigration
    law. That child is an American.

    Roberts's opinion was not joinedd in full. Kavanaugh dissented in part,
    concurred in part. Jackson was a separatate concurrence, joined by
    Sotomayor. It seems they only concurred in part. Not sure where Kagan
    and Barrett are.

    Alito condemned it but it sounds like his historical analysis is flawed.

    I heard an interesting historical analysis of Trump's executive order,
    had it been policy at the time of enactment of the 14th Amendment. While
    the clause was written to overturn Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), given
    the concern that the 13th Amendment had not overturned the decision, it wasn't actually a grant of citizenship to all former slaves. There were
    still slaves being imported into the United States after the trade had
    been made illega in the Constitution. They weren't born on American soil
    and were in the country illegally. By Trump's order, had it been policy
    at the time, their children born on American soil would not have been children by birth.

    Think about that.

    The 14th needs to be amended to make it clear that children of illegals are
    not citizens so we can end this pointless philosophical debate about what "jurisdiction thereof" means.

    It is simply preposterous to assert that those who willfully violated our laws and snuck into the country can, strictly by trespassing on it, secure the ultimate benefit of citizenship for their children against the consent of the nation.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Wed Jul 1 07:02:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    On Jun 30, 2026 at 5:10:54 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Children born to parents who are in the U.S. unlawfully or temporarily
    are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S., Roberts writes. "Under
    the Constitution, they are citizens at
    birth."

    -- John Roberts, Trump v. Barbara

    All this time the debate over who is "subject to" has been about the
    child's mother or both mother and father.

    Roberts has turned the debate on its head. The issue is whether the
    child born on American soil, is "subject to".

    Chinese birth tourism? As a traveller, the mother is not resident. But I >>> think the kid may claim citizenship. As far as illegal alien mothers,
    it's clear to me as she is resident but not "present" for imigration
    law. That child is an American.

    Roberts's opinion was not joinedd in full. Kavanaugh dissented in part,
    concurred in part. Jackson was a separatate concurrence, joined by
    Sotomayor. It seems they only concurred in part. Not sure where Kagan
    and Barrett are.

    Alito condemned it but it sounds like his historical analysis is flawed.

    I heard an interesting historical analysis of Trump's executive order,
    had it been policy at the time of enactment of the 14th Amendment. While
    the clause was written to overturn Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), given
    the concern that the 13th Amendment had not overturned the decision, it
    wasn't actually a grant of citizenship to all former slaves. There were
    still slaves being imported into the United States after the trade had
    been made illega in the Constitution. They weren't born on American soil
    and were in the country illegally. By Trump's order, had it been policy
    at the time, their children born on American soil would not have been
    children by birth.

    Think about that.

    The 14th needs to be amended to make it clear that children of illegals are >not citizens so we can end this pointless philosophical debate about what >"jurisdiction thereof" means.

    What philosophical debate? The 14th Amendment inherited its rational
    from common law. And, our Founding Fathers and the Republicans who wrote Reconstruction laws had no concept of illegal aliens! The New World was
    vast with unlimited resources!

    It is simply preposterous to assert that those who willfully violated our laws >and snuck into the country can, strictly by trespassing on it, secure the >ultimate benefit of citizenship for their children against the consent of the >nation.

    That is not a comment on birth tourism, so this opinion not only upholds
    Wong Kim Ark, it expands it!

    Don't you realize what "your side" did? John Roberts put Trump above the
    law for crimes he committed during the first term WHILE IN OFFICE. Well,
    every time MY state passes an over-the -top gun restriction, it becomes
    the basis for expansive 2nd Amendment rights, like McDonald. The AR-15 expansion will undoubtably use a case from my state.

    Roberts was not going to let Trump rewrite the 14th Amendment in an
    executive order. If Trump hadn't fucked up big time, then Wong Kim Ark
    wouldn't have been EXPANDED.

    "Your side" just made things worse. That's some master strategy there.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Wed Jul 1 08:31:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    It is simply preposterous to assert that those who willfully violated our laws
    and snuck into the country can, strictly by trespassing on it, secure the >>ultimate benefit of citizenship for their children against the consent of the >>nation.

    That is not a comment on birth tourism, so this opinion not only upholds
    Wong Kim Ark, it expands it!

    Don't you realize what "your side" did? John Roberts put Trump above the
    law for crimes he committed during the first term WHILE IN OFFICE. Well, >every time MY state passes an over-the -top gun restriction, it becomes
    the basis for expansive 2nd Amendment rights, like McDonald. The AR-15 >expansion will undoubtably use a case from my state.

    Roberts was not going to let Trump rewrite the 14th Amendment in an
    executive order. If Trump hadn't fucked up big time, then Wong Kim Ark >wouldn't have been EXPANDED.

    "Your side" just made things worse. That's some master strategy there.

    Looks like my snark is inapplicable. Lynch v. Clark and other cases had addressed that children of "temporary sojourners" are Americans having
    been born on United States soil. It's not expanded, just reiterated.

    Trump's, er, strategy didn't harm the cause.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2