From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

From 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means IrCOm used to governments that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes. IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

From 2019:

oThe Coming Debtpocalypseo by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

oWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means IAm used to governments >that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >account and addicted to meth.o

oIAve seen crashes. IAve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM >KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.o

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire wrote:

From 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to governments that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

She's right.

And maybe a little bit wrong.


The German hyperinflation of 1924 did not kill many people. But it did
wipe out the savings of the middle class, which may have caused them to abandon the old political parties for more radical ones, such as the nazis.

Though as the nazis only won 2.6% of the vote in the next election of
1928, I'm not a strong believer in this hypothesis. It took the great depression to really boost their numbers.

William Hyde

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

From 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means IrCOm used to governments >> that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes. IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM >> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the
economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are
things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to governments >>> that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all
time was run up by trump in 2020. In terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath. Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency. It was squandered by
Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.

Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt and Republicans increase
it. There are academic papers about it.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu. Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024. Trump would not be
President for three months.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst. The act actually did not spend much money
until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

From 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves
comfortable. What if the economy crashes? What
if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from
a Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.) Which means IrCOm used to
governments that run their purses like high
school kids with an unending spending account
and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes. IrCOve heard of
crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM KILLED A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is
running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.

*Probably* because - per one of the many Democrat
mantras repeated endlessly in hopes that repeating
something endlessly would magically elevate it to
reality status - Joe was "sharp as a tack"....
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.-a What if the
economy crashes?-a What if our money is
worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are things I
can answer to.-a You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of
crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.

And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

<sigh>
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.-a Trump would not be President for three months.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.-a The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
-a-a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

Lynn

Well Covid-19 is a really bad disease and killed lots of people
who ignored precautions that simply seemed sensible to people
with nursing experience. It has also left a sizable population of
permanently impaired persons. I know one at least.
As for the choice of silly legislation Trump's tax cuts for the
most well off lead the list.


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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes:

On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip fearmongering clickbait>

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

<snpi>

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

And has been mentioned, the federal deficit _decreased_ every single
year of the Biden presidency, directly countering your
statement that it increased every year.

You lied.

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.-a Trump would not be
President for three months.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.

The IRA was not "the worst". It was an excellent program whose
goals (moving towards clean energy and fixing neglected infrastructure)
are absolutely necessary and essential for the future success
of this nation. Trump's war on renewable energy will be his
lasting legacy, and not in a good way.

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

Of course, it is congress that creates legislation, not
the president.

The current congress has done absolutely _nothing_ for
for the last 18 months, other than screwing americans
via the big ugly bill.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:10:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

From 2019:

oThe Coming Debtpocalypseo by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

oWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means IAm used to governments >>> that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.o

oIAve seen crashes. IAve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.o

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

I would rather they didn't, as they will then be blamed for Trump's misbehavior.
It would be better for the country for the Republicans to in control
of Congress through 2030 so that they may reap the full reward of
supporting and enabling Trump.

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

And that Reagan nearly doubled the National Debt in four years. <https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>
And he was a Republican, you know.
That said, this is indeed a bipartisan problem. With a clear
bipartisan insistence on keeping it growing.
Hence my assertion that we need two /new/ parties.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 14 May 2026 17:40:06 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

<snippo>

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.a It was squandered by
Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt and Republicans increase
it. There are academic papers about it.

If we consult <https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>, it is
possible to see that reducing the National Debt since 2001. It is true
that Bill Clinton was the last fiscally conservative President, of
either Party -- but only in his second term.
Obama did manage to reduce the deficits some years after the Great
Recession, and Trump continued the lower level until the Pandemic blew
the roof off. Biden reduced them from the Pandemic heights, but then
they grew again in his last two years.
Reagan was /very/ clear that he wanted to destroy Social Security and
that increasing the National Debt was the way to do it. Trump now
appears to be starting to move to achieve that goal, starting with Medicare/Medicaid and SNAP.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-15, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

Hence my assertion that we need two /new/
parties.

How silly, after all this time seeing that two
ultimately doesn't work.

How about shooting for the real solution that
would lead to there being only one due to the
absence of disagreement for seeing - er,
re-presenting - reality similarly?
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Fri, 15 May 2026 01:33:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo mucho wrangling>

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu. Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now >appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

Says who?
AFAIK, the effects of the vaccine were:
1. If you got COVID, you were significantly less likely to have to be hospitalized.
2. If you were hospitalized (for COVID), you were significantly less
likely to die from it.
And the stats from States that did and did not emphasize getting the
vaccine show which had the largest number of deaths from the disease.
I think you have been drinking anti-vax koolaide.

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024. Trump would not be
President for three months.

This is normal. That is why
<https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year> shows a Budget
Surplus for 2001: it was actually the last surplus of Bill Clinton.
But your point is well-taken: we haven't yet seen what the Trump 2nd
term deficits will look like, given his propensity for attacking other countries and then asking for a lot of money to rebuild the weapon
stockpiles he has depleted.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst. The act actually did not spend much money >until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

Brave words from someone who clearly never read the article.
But Trump doesn't care about inflation. Why should he? It doesn't
affect /him/ or 1%-ers generally, and that's the maximum extent of his
concern.
Note that I am not saying that his concern actually extends even one
nanometer beyond himself. I am merely describing the outermost
possible boundary.

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

And I am sure each of them would be as idiotic as that one was.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.

Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
start turning the ship around.
This is the only way to proceed that doesn't end violently, I suspect.
Sadly, it is hard to see how it could be done peacefully. We appear to
be reaching a crisis point.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine

Not true.

just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

Also not true. The high US death total relative to many other countries
came from lack of action, not from the one good action taken.

Anyway, I gave Trump and Biden a pass for covid-related debt. We have certainly had the same problem in Canada.

But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
not remotely a fiscal conservative.


William Hyde
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now? >>>
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.

Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
start turning the ship around.

It worked before.

Clinton's surplus depended on a very good economy, but also two tax increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his reelection.


Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

William Hyde

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 5/15/26 11:55, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>>> account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF
THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree. >>>
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine

Not true.

just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

I do not think he spent more than a Billion.
The vaccine was available before he left office but he had no realistic plan to distribute it to more than his small circle of friends.
It killed no one that I know of but some people had conditions that either the virus killed or potentiated to kill them. People you know can
be walking around for years with heart conditions that only become
apparent under stress.

A few foolish people died because they injected bleach according
to Trump's nonsense and others wasted money on Ivermectin which
only made them sicker. Many rejected mask wearing in public and may
have gotten infected. Some died in hospitals as they denied that
Covid-19 was a real disease.

Also not true.-a The high US death total relative to many other countries came from lack of action, not from the one good action taken.

Anyway, I gave Trump and Biden a pass for covid-related debt. We have certainly had the same problem in Canada.

But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
not remotely a fiscal conservative.

He only wants to save the money of people like himself ,selfish dolts who have lucked into a money stream that they use to put themselves
above poorer folks. His tax cuts to the well-off were predicted to
produce continuing deficits within a few years.

William Hyde

bliss - who would rather be reading about some science fiction or
even total fantasy than orange idiot's politics.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 5/15/26 12:01, William Hyde wrote:

Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
-a <snip>

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

-a Fiscal Year-a-a-a-a-a Deficit (Trillion$)
-a-a-a 2016-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $0.585
-a-a-a 2017-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $0.665
-a-a-a 2018-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $0.779
-a-a-a 2019-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $0.984
-a-a-a 2020-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $3.132-a (Covid-19 Impact)
-a-a-a 2021-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $2.772-a (Arguably the same)
-a-a-a 2022-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $2.375
-a-a-a 2023-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $1.695
-a-a-a 2024-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $1.833
-a-a-a 2025-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a $1.700+
-a-a-a 2026-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a projected to be more than $2.000 trillion >>>
So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.

Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
start turning the ship around.

It worked before.

Clinton's surplus depended on a-a very good economy, but also two tax increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his reelection.

Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

William Hyde

Hear! Hear!

bliss
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit=20 >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

And that Reagan nearly doubled the National Debt in four years. ><https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>

Reagan pretty much started the Republicans believing that debt was okay.
Before Reagan decided to put the country into debt to outspend the
Soviet Union (a tactic which worked pretty well, to be honest), the Republicans were strongly against increasing debt in any way. But now
they seem not to be.

That said, this is indeed a bipartisan problem. With a clear
bipartisan insistence on keeping it growing.

This is true although I will give some credit to Pres. Clinton for making efforts to improve matters.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/15/2026 7:41 AM, oldernow wrote:

On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.-a What if the
economy crashes?-a What if our money is
worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are things I
can answer to.-a You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of
crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.

And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

<sigh>

The problem with asking to be shown the receipts is that
sometimes people have them.

Source: https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

President Billions+ %+ Notes
Nixon 121 34
Ford 87 16
Carter 178 30
Reagan 1604 161 2 terms
GHW Bush 1207 42
Clinton 1262 29 peace dividend
GW Bush 4217 72 war on terror
Obama 8438 71 2 terms
Trump 1 8081 40 covid
Biden 9208 32 covid
Trump 2 ~4000 so far

The last figure is since 2024, according to
usdebtclock.org

pt

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.-a What if the >>>>> economy crashes?-a What if our money is worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are >>>>> things I can answer to.-a You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.

Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.-a It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt
state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which
you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

Chris

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.-a Trump would not be President for three months.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.-a The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
-a-a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-16, Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 5/15/2026 7:41 AM, oldernow wrote:

On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

rCLWell, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.-a What if the
economy crashes?-a What if our money is
worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are things I
can answer to.-a You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of
crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.

And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

<sigh>

The problem with asking to be shown the receipts is that
sometimes people have them.

Source: https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

President Billions+ %+ Notes
Nixon 121 34
Ford 87 16
Carter 178 30
Reagan 1604 161 2 terms
GHW Bush 1207 42
Clinton 1262 29 peace dividend
GW Bush 4217 72 war on terror
Obama 8438 71 2 terms
Trump 1 8081 40 covid
Biden 9208 32 covid
Trump 2 ~4000 so far

The last figure is since 2024, according to
usdebtclock.org

So, let's see... you claimed:

Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.

I went to the source you provided:

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

Not sure why you didn't simply copy/paste the
table I see when I go there, but here 'tis
(I tacked on a party affiliation column since
your claim was comparing Democrat and Republican
presidents):

President Total change % change ----------------------------------------------------
Franklin D. Roosevelt $178,464,714,660.98 791.8% D
Woodrow Wilson $23,036,251,492.50 789.9% D
Ronald Reagan $1,604,482,712,041.16 160.8% R
George W. Bush $4,217,261,484,712.34 72.6% R
Barack Obama $8,437,973,332,966.05 70.9% D
George H. W. Bush $1,207,189,695,334.34 42.3% R
Donald Trump (term 1) $8,081,116,233,570.88 39.7% R
Richard Nixon $121,339,561,890.14 34.3% R
Joe Biden $9,208,634,924,886.93 32.4% D
Jimmy Carter $178,464,714,660.98 29.9% D
Bill Clinton $1,262,689,326,747.48 28.6% D
Theodore Roosevelt $483,479,337.65 22.6% R
Gerald Ford $87,244,000,000.00 16.4% R
Herbert Hoover $2,555,913,960.03 15.1% R
Lyndon B. Johnson $35,865,507,168.58 11.5% D
William Howard Taft $228,827,633.12 8.7% R
Dwight D. Eisenhower $20,259,699,209.80 7.6% R
John F. Kennedy $16,888,694,386.36 5.8% D
Donald Trump (term 2) $1,054,778,423,857.20 2.8% R
Harry S. Truman $422,991,375.50 0.2% D
Warren G. Harding -$1,627,743,187.18 -6.8% R
Calvin Coolidge -$3,646,519,788.06 -17.2% R

What I see are 9 Democrat president lines, and
13 Republican (Trump represents two of those
because his terms are split in the table).

Now... I've no idea whether simply adding the
values means anything, because I didn't see in
the source whether the numbers are adjusted for
inflation, which might mean that the table might
just be a big barrel of apples and oranges. But
assuming totaling the numbers for Democrat
presidents and Republican presidents possibly
means something, the totals I get are:

Total change % change
$19,342,440,458,345.00 1761.0% D
$16,391,665,768,571.00 398.9% R

Looks to me like 9 Democrats had a bigger percent
change over the years *and* a bigger total change
(dollars) than 12 Republican presidents. Said
another way, only 9 Democrat presidents managed
to increase the debt by roughly $3 trillion more
than 12 Republican presidents.

So.... what was it you were trying to prove
again? And why didn't you include all the
presidents in that table? Did you think your
audience was going to miss something like
that? I mean, we're not *all* "Bobbie Sellers"
grade newsgroup participants.... <coughs>

Again, I don't know if totaling those numbers
means anything. But doing so clearly shows that
less Democrat presidents managed to run up the
national debt by $3 trillion more than did more
Republican presidents.

Looks to me like your own source proves your
"Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it." assertion wrong....

Next! ;-)
--
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-16, Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

-aFrom 2019:

rCLThe Coming DebtpocalypserCY by Sarah Hoyt
-a-a-a https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
rCLWell, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.-a What if the
economy crashes?-a What if our money is
worth nothing?-a What if?-a Are things I
can answer to.-a You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)-a Which means IrCOm used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.rCY

rCLIrCOve seen crashes.-a IrCOve heard of
crashes from grandma.-a NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.rCY

Interesting perspective.

Lynn

And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.

Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.

Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In-a terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.

Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid
and it's aftermath.-a Just as Obama in his
first years had to deal with the aftermath
of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of
Biden in his last three years.

The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.-a It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.

William Hyde

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread
across the entire planet like wildfire and we
thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.-a Trump spent hundreds of billions
of dollars on a vaccine just to come up with
a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is
now appearing to have killed more people than
it cured.

I've spent the last 30 years working in
immunology and microbiology laboratories and I
can categorically and without any hyperbole or
doubt state that you are full of shit. Shut
the fuck up about things of which you're
ignorant. You're fucking killing people with
that bullshit.

Isn't it just like someone protesting too much
that they don't need hyperbole to make a point
to go on to conduct a master class on anger
and profanity hyperbole....
--
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--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

[...]

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire
planet like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like
the Spanish Flu.

We "thought"? No, at first the messaging for some reason was that it
wasn't that bad - instead of really focusing on "we aren't sure about
this, so just mask up everywhere out of caution", for example -, and by
the time officials started pointing out it really was worse than what
was initially said, the far-right was already busy boosting
misinformation like "oh, it's just a cold".

Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a
vaccine just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency

I seriously doubt Trump was the sole person responsible for funding
vaccine research, in fact the way he's currently gutting research in
this term all but says it wasn't his doing...

that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

I know this is the speculative fiction group, but please mark fictional comments as such when you're in middle of a thread discussing reality.

If you want to look at fatality counts, I'm guessing the far-right misinformation killed more than anything else during the pandemic. Be it convincing far-right supporters not to mask and not to vaccinate, be it destroying public health initiatives when the far-right has power to do
so.

The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.-a Trump would not be
President for three months.

And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.-a The act actually did not spend much
money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the
spending. Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but
its expenses trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what
was estimated.
-a-a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

And we could go on about how Reagan screwed it up for everyone, with the trickle-up economics that probably single-handedly turned the USA into a developing country.

Lynn

On 2026-05-15, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

Well Covid-19 is a really bad disease and killed lots of people
who ignored precautions that simply seemed sensible to people
with nursing experience.

I think sometimes the far right can also be described as a group of
movements that insist in opposing common sense.

If something is common sense and looks consensual or not a big deal,
like masking or washing hands, or using cutlery to eat food, you can
probably bet that the USA far right will grab it, fight it and label it "political" and demand a "bipartisan" solution which implies adhering to
their position.

It has also left a sizable population of
permanently impaired persons. I know one at least.

Yes, but when reality and facts collide with the far-right delusions, we
know which one gets chosen.

As for the choice of silly legislation Trump's tax cuts for the
most well off lead the list.

--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-16, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

[...]

Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars
on a vaccine just to come up with a vaccine
a year after his Presidency

I seriously doubt Trump was the sole person
responsible for funding vaccine research,

What you quoted didn't say he was. So what you're
seriously doubting is a strawman claim that you
provided to make it sound like it was in the
original statement.

Tsk, tsk! Naughty, naughty!

that is now appearing to have killed more
people than it cured.

I know this is the speculative fiction group,
but please mark fictional comments as such when
you're in middle of a thread discussing reality.

How about, instead, you mark strawman claims
you've disingenuously inserted in your responses?

If you want to look at fatality counts, I'm guessing

We already knew you were guessing, it being your
goto source for claims, proof, etc.

the far-right misinformation killed more
than anything else during the pandemic. Be it
convincing far-right supporters not to mask
and not to vaccinate, be it destroying public
health initiatives when the far-right has power
to do so.

Since when is it evil to have and share opinions
in an alleged free speech society? Do people
have to listen and obey to what others say?
I somehow managed to come to my own
conclusions after hearing/reading
all kinds of opinion on the
matter, and made it through
just fine. No vaccine, got
COVID twice, lived to
tell.

You sound rather opposed to free speech that
conflicts with your beliefs. But you're not
the first opinion fundamentalist I've met.

I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

And we could go on about how Reagan screwed it
up for everyone, with the trickle-up economics
that probably single-handedly turned the USA
into a developing country.

Oh? So, then, how did I wind up retired and fine?

What *started to* turn the USA into a developing
country was allowing large numbers of people
with developing country mindsets and cultures
to walk through its borders willy nilly.
--
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| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

(right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
below)

I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
seem to involve airflow.

In general, it seemed your average neolithic mammoth-stabber had
about as firm a grasp on disease theory as the people I encountered
on a daily basis. What made it worse was I was working in the Applied
Health Sciences building.

(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Fri, 15 May 2026 14:55:34 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo: deficits and national debt, by President>

But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
not remotely a fiscal conservative.

It used to be so simple:
-- want more spending? vote Democratic and pay the resulting taxes
("tax and spend")
-- want less spending? vote Republican ("fiscally conservative")
Then it changed:
-- want more spending? vote Democratic and pay the resulting taxes
("tax and spend")
-- want more spending without taxes? vote Republican ("spend and
spend")
Now it is simple again:
-- want more spending without taxes? vote for either ("spend and
spend")
This affects the National Debt as well:
--faced with the dread possibility of reducing the National Debt, the Republicans will give another tax break to their good friends, the
1%-ers
--faced with the possibility of reducing the National Debt, the
Democrats will immediately find something else to spend the money on
And /that/, in a nutshell is where we are right now.
And why I think we need two new parties, both in the center, one a bit
to the left, the other a bit to the right, both willing to talk to
each other for the good of the country.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

(right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
below)

I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >>state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >>you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
seem to involve airflow.

I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
My guess is that they think they are fashion accessories. That is,
they wear them or not depending on what is "in" in their subculture.

In general, it seemed your average neolithic mammoth-stabber had
about as firm a grasp on disease theory as the people I encountered
on a daily basis. What made it worse was I was working in the Applied
Health Sciences building.

But were they Applied Health scientists? Or were they, say, janitors?

(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)

Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!
Alternately:
Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
one part of the building to another.
I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
either.
Yes, it was built on a hill. This is Seattle: we have plenty of hills.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Fri, 15 May 2026 15:01:53 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo: raising taxes>

It worked before.

Clinton's surplus depended on a very good economy, but also two tax >increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his >reelection.

It probably fed into it, but "It's the economy, stupid!" was also a
factor.
The economy as opposed to his sucessful liberation of Kuwait from
Iraq.

Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

Indeed.
But where will we find others like them? Not among todays aging
Boomers, I suspect.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

(right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
below)

I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >>state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >>you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
seem to involve airflow.

I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.

University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/16/2026 3:51 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

[...]

As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire
planet like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like
the Spanish Flu.

We "thought"? No, at first the messaging for some reason was that it
wasn't that bad - instead of really focusing on "we aren't sure about
this, so just mask up everywhere out of caution", for example -, and by
the time officials started pointing out it really was worse than what
was initially said, the far-right was already busy boosting
misinformation like "oh, it's just a cold".

Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a
vaccine just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency

I seriously doubt Trump was the sole person responsible for funding
vaccine research, in fact the way he's currently gutting research in
this term all but says it wasn't his doing......

"Operation Warp Speed (OWS) was a publicrCoprivate partnership initiated
by the United States government to facilitate and accelerate the
development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics.[1][2] The first news report of Operation
Warp Speed was on April 29, 2020,[3][4][5] and the program was
officially announced on May 15, 2020.[1] It was headed by Moncef Slaoui
from May 2020 to January 2021 and by David A. Kessler from January to
February 2021.[6] At the end of February 2021, Operation Warp Speed was transferred into the responsibilities of the White House COVID-19
Response Team.[7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 5/14/2026 5:26 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>

So are the mid-terms.

So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.

Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)

Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!

Alternately:
Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
one part of the building to another.

My UW has the psych building. Legend has it is supposed to resemble
a brain. The layout is confusing enough profs who teach in it get
lost.

I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
either.

40 years ago, one UW building, which legend said was designed
by an architect offended by accessibility requirements, had
a pair of doors enclosing a stretch of corridor. On their own,
they met the legal requirements. However, both opened into
the stretch of corridor and neither could be opened by someone
in a wheelchair from the enclosed stretch. Lobster trap.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

James Nicoll wrote:

In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)

Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!

Alternately:
Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
one part of the building to another.

My UW has the psych building. Legend has it is supposed to resemble
a brain. The layout is confusing enough profs who teach in it get
lost.

I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
either.

40 years ago, one UW building, which legend said was designed
by an architect offended by accessibility requirements, had
a pair of doors enclosing a stretch of corridor. On their own,
they met the legal requirements. However, both opened into
the stretch of corridor and neither could be opened by someone
in a wheelchair from the enclosed stretch. Lobster trap.

Halifax has an above-street crossing in an area with a heavy slope
towards the harbour. Very convenient for people who have trouble
negotiating a steep slope, especially in winter.

You enter through a mall facing the lower street, take an elevator up a
few floors, and get off. Ahead of you is a gently sloping ramp that
leads to the above-ground corridor. You roll halfway along the corridor
to encounter ... a flight of stairs.

Same architect?


William Hyde
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-16, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

And why I think we need two new parties,
both in the center, one a bit to the left,
the other a bit to the right, both willing to
talk to each other for the good of the country.

You're deluded again. There are no
parties. There are people acting out their
selfish "free-willed" individualities in ways
that in their self-centric minds delivers them
the most positive for the least negative, and
seeming "parties" and their seeming natures
are emergent properties of the mathematical
integral of all of them.

There is no such thing has selfish "free-willed"
individuals designing parties with levels of
principles (in *practice*, not merely in word)
greater than the sum total of their individual
principles (in *practice*, not merely in
word). You're somehow under the impression
that a group of assholes will magically deliver
non-asshole results.

*Wrong*.

Once again, people jockey for positioning in
whatever situation is available to deliver
what they consider the biggest overall win
for themselves, others mostly be damned -
or at very best "meh'd".

Reality does the math (the integral of the
behaviors of all those mentally ill automatons),
And here we are.

The only change possible in the direction
you wishfully hope for is people independently
(because self-centered be-ings always act *only*
in their best interest) concluding that maybe
there's something haywire with their be-ing,
and that it could somehow be best for them to
trigger change at essence level.

That happens only very rarely, and when it does
the assholes they're surrounded by are quick
to belittle and drive them from the herd with
vigor and zeal - killfile them, if you will -
including in the most permanent possible sense
if their collective humiliation-based fear over
being confronted with a be-ing far better than
them rises to a certain level.

It's not that the reality math is going to
be ruthless, but that the ruthlessness of
self-centered assholes *themselves* will destroy
the constituent assholes without mercy.

You're witnessing the beginnings of it.

Hold on tight, because the person in the
mirror is coming for you....
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.

WTF are you talking about?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 5/17/26 11:53, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.

WTF are you talking about?

Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very Well Off for
less taxation and maintaining all the amenities of a semi-civilized society such as police to protect their wealth, highways to travel as they please, prisons to lock up all those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior. Such as Democratic party members, others,
independent voters who value the Constitution over the Orange Maniac, Transgender children who defy their logic and buttoned down bronze
age values, all the LBGTQ+ crew and their allies.
But I bet, considering it is Lynn ,it is pesky people who insist on breathing air that is not filled with toxic fumes which will result in
in more heat deaths of persons living in Temperate zones.
Or maybe it is people who think that gasoline should be sold
at truely reasonable prices as in Europe at about $2.58/Liter.
That was the highest price i could find for my remark in Denmark.
That takes in some of the side effects of the nasty petroleum
product.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going >>on in the USA right now.

WTF are you talking about?

Well, let's say you own a football franchise.... local governments will
compete with one another to give you money to build a new stadium. It's
free goods being handed to you by the government! So you take the mmoney, build the stadium, and then move somewhere else in a couple years.

You can do this with data centers and factories too! Just take the free
money and run away with it!

When you suggest moving your operation into a place they start offering free stuff! Then when you suggest moving out they start offering more free stuff! And the taxpayers pay for it without complaining! It's like running a big
hose into the taxpayer's pocket and pumping out money!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.

It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.

If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?

Such as Democratic party members, others,
independent voters who value the Constitution
over the Orange Maniac, Transgender children who
defy their logic and buttoned down bronze age
values, all the LBGTQ+ crew and their allies.

A hallmark of "liberals" seems to be their
endless classifications - aka labeling -
of others. It can't just be "people", oh
noes! It's gotta be this kind of person,
that kind of person, and so on ad
nauseam.

But I bet, considering it is Lynn ,it is pesky
people who insist on breathing air that is
not filled with toxic fumes which will result
in in more heat deaths of persons living in
Temperate zones.

Nobody wants that, but there is disagreement on
whether practices lead to such, or are closer
to the virtue signaling conspiracy theory
theatrics end of the spectrum.
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2026-05-18, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

Yup, there is infinite demand for free
goods. And that is what is going on in the
USA right now.

WTF are you talking about?

Well, let's say you own a football
franchise.... local governments will compete
with one another to give you money to build a
new stadium. It's free goods being handed to
you by the government! So you take the mmoney,
build the stadium, and then move somewhere else
in a couple years.

You can do this with data centers and factories
too! Just take the free money and run away
with it!

When you suggest moving your operation into
a place they start offering free stuff! Then
when you suggest moving out they start offering
more free stuff! And the taxpayers pay for it
without complaining! It's like running a big
hose into the taxpayer's pocket and pumping
out money!

Okay. We get that that's happening. In
exclamation marks even (oh my!).

Now... *why* is that happening?
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
| alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
| internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going >>on in the USA right now.

WTF are you talking about?

He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
something everybody wants.
This is because his claim that they (and the National Debt) are solely
the responsibility of the Democrats has collapsed.
He is hoping that everbody wanting this will somehow excuse the
Republicans for their share of the blame.
And the retribution, when it arrives.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2