• Re: "War Department declares Golden Shield missile defense system ready to be built: =?iso-8859-7?Q?=A1Shovel_ready=A2=22?=

    From quadi@quadibloc@ca.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 01:32:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:52:37 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    I don't know. I do remember, back when Ronald Reagan was talking about the Strategic Defense Initiative, _Scientific American_ criticized it, saying
    that the computer technology needed to make it work simply did not exist.

    Well, today, the technology used in the video cards in home computers...
    is powering the AI revolution. So just maybe the biggest obstacle to a
    missile shield has been overcome.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I wouldn't know.

    John Savard
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From quadi@quadibloc@ca.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 01:39:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 01:32:38 +0000, quadi wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:52:37 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I wouldn't know.

    A quick Google search has cleared up a bit of my ignorance in this area. Apparently the current state of the art is on the order of 100 kilowatts,
    so it's another order of magnitude worse than I thought.

    However, these systems appear to have been intended to allow the U. S.
    Navy to have the capacity to do such things as safely escort oil tankers through the Strait of Hormuz, despite missiles and drones being launched
    at them. This does not seem to have worked out as well as expected.

    John Savard
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon May 11 21:51:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:
    I don't know. I do remember, back when Ronald Reagan was talking about the >Strategic Defense Initiative, _Scientific American_ criticized it, saying >that the computer technology needed to make it work simply did not exist.

    The argument Dr. Parnas made was about the inability to write large software systems with any reliability, and that this was a necessity for a system
    like SDI.

    Well, today, the technology used in the video cards in home computers...
    is powering the AI revolution. So just maybe the biggest obstacle to a >missile shield has been overcome.

    Maybe. But as hardware today is hundreds of times faster than it was back in Reagan's day, software is just as bad. Maybe even worse. And I think that expectations for software reliability have even been lowered since then.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of >existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >wouldn't know.

    The Project High Frontier guys did some numbers about what was necessary,
    and as you might expect, the better your targetting is the less powerful
    a beam you need. And in space, spreading loss is your major issue whereas
    a ground-based system has to deal with attenuation in air. But you also
    need to make sure you're shooting at the enemy and not at your own forces,
    a lesson we didn't learn well enough in Vietnam.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From scott@scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 14:36:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> writes:
    On Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:52:37 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    I don't know.

    The simple answer is no, there aren't gigawatt lasers
    ready for deployment.

    You should simply consider anything the dumbshit SECDEF
    says is a lie.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 08:33:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 01:32:38 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:52:37 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    I don't know. I do remember, back when Ronald Reagan was talking about the >Strategic Defense Initiative, _Scientific American_ criticized it, saying >that the computer technology needed to make it work simply did not exist.
    Ah ... /Scientific American/. I read that for years.
    I gave up when
    -- they fired a guy for opposing abortion; his job was to select and
    edit (for coherence) submissions to an amateur scientist column
    -- they started putting a long article at the start of each issue
    trying to foretell the future -- reading tea leaves is /not/ part of
    the scientific method
    I ignored for years the minor detail that whenever they published an
    article on a topic I actually knew something about, it was a very
    general article indeed, and the implication that all the articles were
    like that.
    Well, today, the technology used in the video cards in home computers...
    is powering the AI revolution. So just maybe the biggest obstacle to a >missile shield has been overcome.
    If you say so. I, myself, never having implemented a space-based
    missile shield, have no idea if current computer tech is actually up
    to the job.
    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/
    bad idea.
    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing.
    As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a
    far better choice than an AI.
    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of >existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >wouldn't know.
    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 13:22:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 5/12/2026 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 01:32:38 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:52:37 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    I don't know. I do remember, back when Ronald Reagan was talking about the >> Strategic Defense Initiative, _Scientific American_ criticized it, saying
    that the computer technology needed to make it work simply did not exist.

    Ah ... /Scientific American/. I read that for years.

    I gave up when
    -- they fired a guy for opposing abortion; his job was to select and
    edit (for coherence) submissions to an amateur scientist column
    -- they started putting a long article at the start of each issue
    trying to foretell the future -- reading tea leaves is /not/ part of
    the scientific method

    I ignored for years the minor detail that whenever they published an
    article on a topic I actually knew something about, it was a very
    general article indeed, and the implication that all the articles were
    like that.

    Well, today, the technology used in the video cards in home computers...
    is powering the AI revolution. So just maybe the biggest obstacle to a
    missile shield has been overcome.

    If you say so. I, myself, never having implemented a space-based
    missile shield, have no idea if current computer tech is actually up
    to the job.

    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/
    bad idea.

    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing.
    As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a
    far better choice than an AI.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I
    wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.


    We're moving in the direction of autonomous AI targetting rapidly.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html

    Not fully autonomous, these will can be locked onto a moving
    target by a human operator from will beyond jamming range, and
    then swoop in for the kill by themselves.

    pt


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lynn McGuire@lynnmcguire5@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 14:58:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 5/12/2026 10:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    ...
    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I
    wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.

    Megawatt and higher powered lasers are certainly available. Just look
    at the latest fusion reactor experiments. However, getting those lasers
    to last more than a couple of nanoseconds is not available, yet.

    For instance:

    https://www.leonardo.us/blog/laser-world-of-photonics-2025-powering-the-momentum-of-fusion-energy

    Lynn

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lynn McGuire@lynnmcguire5@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue May 12 21:21:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 4/28/2026 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    "War Department declares Golden Shield missile defense system ready to
    be built: rCyShovel readyrCO"

    https://justthenews.com/government/security/department-war-advancing- defensive-technologies-against-missiles-other-aerial

    "The department called it a "layered, integrated shield" that will
    defend the U.S. against ballistic missiles, hypersonic missiles,
    advanced cruise missiles and next-generation aerial attacks."
    -a-a https://x.com/DoWCTO

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    Hat tip to:
    -a-a https://thelibertydaily.com/

    Lynn

    No lasers at this time other than communication lasers like Starlink uses.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dome_(missile_defense_system)

    So, we need gigawatt sustained power lasers for both missile defense
    shield and fusion reactors. Looks like a good research project for MIT,
    Texas A&M, Stanford, and a few other excellent universities. I'll bet
    most of them already have laser research projects going.

    Looks like SpaceX will be launching many thousands of satellites in the
    next few years.

    Lynn

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed May 13 08:35:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 21:21:29 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/28/2026 3:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    "War Department declares Golden Shield missile defense system ready to
    be built: aShovel readyA"

    https://justthenews.com/government/security/department-war-advancing-
    defensive-technologies-against-missiles-other-aerial

    "The department called it a "layered, integrated shield" that will
    defend the U.S. against ballistic missiles, hypersonic missiles,
    advanced cruise missiles and next-generation aerial attacks."
    aa https://x.com/DoWCTO

    Wait, we have gigawatt lasers ready to go now ?

    Hat tip to:
    aa https://thelibertydaily.com/

    Lynn

    No lasers at this time other than communication lasers like Starlink uses.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dome_(missile_defense_system)

    So, we need gigawatt sustained power lasers for both missile defense
    shield and fusion reactors. Looks like a good research project for MIT, >Texas A&M, Stanford, and a few other excellent universities. I'll bet
    most of them already have laser research projects going.

    Looks like SpaceX will be launching many thousands of satellites in the
    next few years.
    Unless, of course, they were DOGE'd,
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed May 13 08:40:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:22:54 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/12/2026 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    <snippo: leadup to The Rise of the Machines>
    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/
    bad idea.

    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed
    /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing.
    As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a
    far better choice than an AI.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >>> wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.


    We're moving in the direction of autonomous AI targetting rapidly.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html

    Not fully autonomous, these will can be locked onto a moving
    target by a human operator from will beyond jamming range, and
    then swoop in for the kill by themselves.
    Better be a very strong lock, one with no key, or we'll eventually be
    reading about one attacking a civilian airliner. With lots of excuses.
    What was that version of Boyle's law -- oh, yes: "The greater the
    external pressure, the greater the volume of hot air." Flanders &
    Swann were talking about political scandals, but we have progressed
    (if that's the word) since then.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed May 13 14:57:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 5/13/2026 11:40 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:22:54 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/12/2026 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

    <snippo: leadup to The Rise of the Machines>

    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/
    bad idea.

    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed
    /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing.
    As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a
    far better choice than an AI.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of
    existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >>>> wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.


    We're moving in the direction of autonomous AI targetting rapidly.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html

    Not fully autonomous, these will can be locked onto a moving
    target by a human operator from will beyond jamming range, and
    then swoop in for the kill by themselves.

    Better be a very strong lock, one with no key, or we'll eventually be
    reading about one attacking a civilian airliner. With lots of excuses.

    You don't need an AI to do that.

    In 1983, the Soviets shot down Korean Air 007, 269 killed.
    in 1988 that US shot down a civilian Iranian airliner. 290 dead.
    In 2014, Russian troops show down a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine.
    298 killed.

    Humans make errors too. The question is: which is more reliable.

    I'm trying to figure out a way to let my wife know that I'd like
    her to use the Tesla automation nearly all the time: It drives
    better than she does. She is NOT accident prone, but the robot is
    much smoother.

    pt

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu May 14 08:43:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:57:06 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/13/2026 11:40 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:22:54 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/12/2026 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

    <snippo: leadup to The Rise of the Machines>

    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/
    bad idea.

    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed
    /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing.
    As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a >>>> far better choice than an AI.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of >>>>> existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >>>>> wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.


    We're moving in the direction of autonomous AI targetting rapidly.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html

    Not fully autonomous, these will can be locked onto a moving
    target by a human operator from will beyond jamming range, and
    then swoop in for the kill by themselves.

    Better be a very strong lock, one with no key, or we'll eventually be
    reading about one attacking a civilian airliner. With lots of excuses.

    You don't need an AI to do that.

    In 1983, the Soviets shot down Korean Air 007, 269 killed.
    in 1988 that US shot down a civilian Iranian airliner. 290 dead.
    In 2014, Russian troops show down a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine.
    298 killed.

    Humans make errors too. The question is: which is more reliable.
    But were they "locked on" a valid target?
    And the fact that people make mistakes does /not/ justify allowing AI
    to make them. To err is /human/ -- it cannot be allowed to AI.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu May 14 15:08:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 5/14/2026 11:43 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:57:06 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/13/2026 11:40 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:22:54 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/12/2026 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

    <snippo: leadup to The Rise of the Machines>

    And you /really/ want to trust an ARMED SYSTEM to an AI? Have you
    never read any Science Fiction on this topic at all? This is a /very/ >>>>> bad idea.

    Like atomic reactors, space-based defense systems need to be managed >>>>> /exclusively/ by human beings who actually know what they are doing. >>>>> As opposed to, say, your standard MBA -- and a standard MBA would be a >>>>> far better choice than an AI.

    And either they can build gigawatt lasers with a modest extension of >>>>>> existing technology - or they can manage with megawatt lasers somehow. I >>>>>> wouldn't know.

    As you yourself note below, even megawatt lasers are not available.


    We're moving in the direction of autonomous AI targetting rapidly.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html

    Not fully autonomous, these will can be locked onto a moving
    target by a human operator from will beyond jamming range, and
    then swoop in for the kill by themselves.

    Better be a very strong lock, one with no key, or we'll eventually be
    reading about one attacking a civilian airliner. With lots of excuses.

    You don't need an AI to do that.

    In 1983, the Soviets shot down Korean Air 007, 269 killed.
    in 1988 that US shot down a civilian Iranian airliner. 290 dead.
    In 2014, Russian troops show down a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine.
    298 killed.

    Humans make errors too. The question is: which is more reliable.

    But were they "locked on" a valid target?

    And the fact that people make mistakes does /not/ justify allowing AI
    to make them. To err is /human/ -- it cannot be allowed to AI.

    You've said this before, in regard to self-driving cars.

    Again: If it performs *better* than humans, it can, and
    should be used. Fewer of the wrong targets will be hit,
    and that's better than letting people die.

    Justify requiring perfection, please.

    pt

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu May 14 15:18:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    You've said this before, in regard to self-driving cars.

    Again: If it performs *better* than humans, it can, and
    should be used. Fewer of the wrong targets will be hit,
    and that's better than letting people die.

    Justify requiring perfection, please.

    People psychologically will not accept it. People expect machines to be perfect in ways that humans are not. This is how we wound up with the
    mess of the current air traffic control system.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu May 14 16:01:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 5/14/2026 3:18 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    You've said this before, in regard to self-driving cars.

    Again: If it performs *better* than humans, it can, and
    should be used. Fewer of the wrong targets will be hit,
    and that's better than letting people die.

    Justify requiring perfection, please.

    People psychologically will not accept it. People expect machines to be perfect in ways that humans are not. This is how we wound up with the
    mess of the current air traffic control system.

    Some won't accept it. I have no doubt that there will be a few
    horrible accidents where a human might well have avoided it. But
    the numbers count.

    The insurance businesses has no such qualms.

    When they offer lower rates to people who consistently use automated
    driving, many will be persuaded.

    Similarly, when the military find they are more effective at completing missions by using AI autonomous weapons, they will do so. Needs must....

    Yes, I'm afraid of the 'Wargames' scenario. AFAICT, all the military are
    too, and will not turn over control to WHOPPR.


    pt
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri May 15 09:02:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 14 May 2026 16:01:01 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 3:18 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    You've said this before, in regard to self-driving cars.

    Again: If it performs *better* than humans, it can, and
    should be used. Fewer of the wrong targets will be hit,
    and that's better than letting people die.

    Justify requiring perfection, please.

    People psychologically will not accept it. People expect machines to be
    perfect in ways that humans are not. This is how we wound up with the
    mess of the current air traffic control system.

    Some won't accept it. I have no doubt that there will be a few
    horrible accidents where a human might well have avoided it. But
    the numbers count.

    The insurance businesses has no such qualms.

    When they offer lower rates to people who consistently use automated
    driving, many will be persuaded.

    Similarly, when the military find they are more effective at completing >missions by using AI autonomous weapons, they will do so. Needs must....

    Yes, I'm afraid of the 'Wargames' scenario. AFAICT, all the military are
    too, and will not turn over control to WHOPPR.
    And yet, what is the Golden Shield but Skynet under a new name, at
    least in embryo?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2