Star Trek
Looks like Eugene Roddenybury and co wants to bury ST into an
unrecognisable grave.
On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 16:15:33 -0000 (UTC), The Doctor wrote:
Star Trek
Looks like Eugene Roddenybury and co wants to bury ST into an unrecognisable grave.
It was always a ?woke? series, though, wasn?t it. An
international--no, interplanetary--cast of characters, a pluralist Federation, the first interracial kiss on US TV ...
Lawrence DOliveiro wrote:A lot of the older TV was the same. And it couldn't be paused.
On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 07:55:45 -0500, The True Melissa wrote:
A lot of people say that. I see an important difference
between a show about space exploration which has some
social messages and a show about social messages which has
some space exploration.
Science fiction, like any other kind of fiction, has to be
about the people. The gadgets, the technology, the alien
setting, whether elsewhere or elsewhen or elsewhatever ...
these are always secondary. Of course they have to be a key
part of the plot, but the story must always be the thing. And
the story is always about the people.
I don't know if proper people are writing modern television
scripts or if it's just AI, or maybe the scripts are originally
drafted by AI then tweaked by a person? But the stories we get
in shows nowadays just seem so bland. Maybe I am just old and
have seen it all before?
When I watch an episode of a sci-fi [ish] type of show now
nothing 'grabs' me and keeps me glued to the narrative... I
could probably get up and make a cup of tea without pausing it
and I still wouldn't have missed anything when I come back.
Modern writers seem to have lost the basic skill of writing an
entertaining story that will keep people engaged.
I don't know if proper people are writing modern television scripts
or if it's just AI, or maybe the scripts are originally drafted by
AI then tweaked by a person? But the stories we get in shows
nowadays just seem so bland.
The rise of CG has helped somewhat. But it doesn?t get around the
basic fact that the whole premise behind the ?Star Trek? franchise
is, at a fundamental level, quite absurd.
Verily, in article <10m88p3$1dcpp$6@dont-email.me>, did ldo@nz.invalid >deliver unto us this message:And it made /The Journey Home/ a major hit because it contrasted their
The rise of CG has helped somewhat. But it doesn?t get around the
basic fact that the whole premise behind the ?Star Trek? franchise
is, at a fundamental level, quite absurd.
Which part are you calling the premise? Do you mean the utopian aspects,
or the FTL starflight and transporter and other science fantasy?
Older Trek had the attitude that we'd evolved beyond all the petty
hangups of our Earthbound days. I suppose that's absurd, but it's also >aspirational.
Which part [of Star Trek] are you calling the premise?
On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 07:11:23 -0500, The True Melissa wrote:
Which part [of Star Trek] are you calling the premise?
The idea that exploration and research would be put in the hands of a militaristic organization; that first contact with new races would be
done via heavily-armed warships; that a single ship would need a crew
of hundreds (donrCOt they have automation in the future?), yet there is
only a single rCLscience officerrCY to manage the research and exploration part of the mission.
On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 07:11:23 -0500, The True Melissa wrote:How about the idea that a culture that is said to no longer use money
Which part [of Star Trek] are you calling the premise?
The idea that exploration and research would be put in the hands of a >militaristic organization; that first contact with new races would be
done via heavily-armed warships; that a single ship would need a crew
of hundreds (donAt they have automation in the future?), yet there is
only a single oscience officero to manage the research and exploration
part of the mission.
Spock was "Science Officer" (as well as "First Officer"), so despite
what is shown on-screen, he was basically a manager and would have
had a "Science Team" of crew members and computers helping him,
based elsewhere in the ship (for example, the "Life Sciences
Department: Botany" was on Deck 9 according to one episode of the
show). In some episodes during planetary landings you can see other
crew members running around with tricorders examining things.
The (admitedly fan-created) list here has 59 crew in the "Science
Division", plus of course help from crew in other divisions. Members
of the "Science Division" would have their own speciailities with
that, such as xeno-biology, planetary science, etc. <https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/enterprise-crew-breakdown-take-three.36834/>
On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 10:11:10 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Spock was "Science Officer" (as well as "First Officer"), so despite
what is shown on-screen, he was basically a manager and would have had
a "Science Team" of crew members and computers helping him, based
elsewhere in the ship (for example, the "Life Sciences Department:
Botany" was on Deck 9 according to one episode of the show). In some
episodes during planetary landings you can see other crew members
running around with tricorders examining things.
The (admitedly fan-created) list here has 59 crew in the "Science
Division", plus of course help from crew in other divisions. Members of
the "Science Division" would have their own speciailities with that,
such as xeno-biology, planetary science, etc.
<https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/enterprise-crew-breakdown-take-three.36834/>
ThatrCOs not how science is done. You donrCOt line up a platoon with a
drill sergeant who says rCLTen-HUT! Do ... SCIENCE!!rCY.
What you would have is actual professional scientists: a group of
senior researchers with a wide variety of specializations, accompanied
by a bevy of (poorly-paid) postgrads. Military discipline is the
furthest thing from their minds.
Think of a scientific exploration ship as a mobile research institute
-- perhaps a perpetual rolling field trip, if you like. It would rove
from one world to another, leave behind small volunteer teams in
interesting places every now and then to follow up longer-term
projects, maybe even pick up new staff and students from some of the civilizations they encounter along the way.
There will of course be a security detail, but they will be a minority
of the crew, and their Commander answers to the Director of the
Institute, not the other way round.
Given that the number-one motivation of the researchers is curiosity,
and a sense of self-preservation might sometimes come second to that,
you could indeed have the occasional adventure or side-plot where the security personnel have to rescue some of the academics from some
trouble theyrCOve got themselves into.
Given the nature of science, this series could lend itself to longer
story arcs: e.g. a series of clues found on planets in star systems
lying along a particular path points to a common origin for the life
found on those planets. Or maybe just ruins indicating past life. And
then of course, the question is: whatrCOs at the starting point of that path?
That's what I said ... "he was basically a manager and would have
had a "Science Team" of crew members and computers helping him".
Nothing about a "platoon" or a drill sergeant. :-p
And with any team, someone is in charge, no matter what silly title
they are given: "lead scientist", "head scientist", "chief science
officer", etc.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 10:53:04 +1300, Your Name wrote:
That's what I said ... "he was basically a manager and would have had a
"Science Team" of crew members and computers helping him".
Nothing about a "platoon" or a drill sergeant. :-p
In the military, when a superior gives an order, the underling carries
it out, to the letter, no more, no less. The military mind is
inherently unsuited to giving (or receiving) open-ended directives like rCLgo find something that doesnrCOt look like it belongs thererCY -- something the scientific mind is trained to spot.
And with any team, someone is in charge, no matter what silly title
they are given: "lead scientist", "head scientist", "chief science
officer", etc.
Ever worked in a research/academic setting? The phrase rCLherding catsrCY comes to mind ...
Except Starfleet is not actually a military organisation ...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:26:44 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Except Starfleet is not actually a military organisation ...
What a load of codswallop.
On 2026-02-11 02:57:50 +0000, Lawrence D-|Oliveiro said:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:26:44 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Except Starfleet is not actually a military organisation ...
What a load of codswallop.
"Starfleet is a paramilitary organisation. That is to say a
civilian peacekeeping, exploration and science organisation
that uses military structure. They are not a purely military
force, though they have some military duties."
"Starfleet is neither wholly civilian, nor a military in the
conventional sense. They are in fact best described as a peace
keeping force."
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 17:58:45 +1300, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-02-11 02:57:50 +0000, Lawrence D-|Oliveiro said:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:26:44 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Except Starfleet is not actually a military organisation ...
What a load of codswallop.
"Starfleet is a paramilitary organisation. That is to say a civilian
peacekeeping, exploration and science organisation that uses military
structure. They are not a purely military force, though they have some
military duties."
"Starfleet is neither wholly civilian, nor a military in the
conventional sense. They are in fact best described as a peace keeping
force."
An organization where everybody is an officer, and there are no
enlisted personnel!
rCLNot a purely military forcerCY, yet they go around in fully-armed warships. If thatrCOs the kind of deadly force they have access to, I
wonder what the *actual* rCLmilitary forcerCY in that universe is like?
What about all those times they went into battle against Romulans and Klingons and the Borg and who-knows-what-else? Did they ever get backup
from a separate rCLproperrCY military force?
Nope. They were it. They *are* the rCLproperrCY military force. No ifs or buts, no more hemming and hawing about it.
On 2026-02-11 07:29:11 +0000, Lawrence D|Oliveiro said:You might want to consider the Great White Fleet <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_White_Fleet>.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 17:58:45 +1300, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-02-11 02:57:50 +0000, Lawrence D|Oliveiro said:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:26:44 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Except Starfleet is not actually a military organisation ...
What a load of codswallop.
"Starfleet is a paramilitary organisation. That is to say a civilian
peacekeeping, exploration and science organisation that uses military
structure. They are not a purely military force, though they have some
military duties."
"Starfleet is neither wholly civilian, nor a military in the
conventional sense. They are in fact best described as a peace keeping
force."
An organization where everybody is an officer, and there are no
enlisted personnel!
There areplenty of enlisted personnel ... they were original the
expendable "red shirts" (until some fool in charge of the shows decied
to swap the shirt colours around).
oNot a purely military forceo, yet they go around in fully-armed
warships. If thatAs the kind of deadly force they have access to, I
wonder what the *actual* omilitary forceo in that universe is like?
Klingons, Romulans, ... ;-)
What about all those times they went into battle against Romulans and
Klingons and the Borg and who-knows-what-else? Did they ever get backup
from a separate opropero military force?
That's the "peacekeeping" part.
The real Star Trek military were "Military Assault Command Operations" >(disbanded in 2161), and perhaps smaller parts like Section 31 and
Sector Patrol.
Nope. They were it. They *are* the opropero military force. No ifs or
buts, no more hemming and hawing about it.
Military do not do usually do exploration (other then for
reconnaissance purposes) nor diplomacy.
On 2026-02-11 07:29:11 +0000, Lawrence D-|Oliveiro said:
An organization where everybody is an officer, and there are no
enlisted personnel!
There areplenty of enlisted personnel ... they were original the
expendable "red shirts" (until some fool in charge of the shows decied
to swap the shirt colours around).
rCLNot a purely military forcerCY, yet they go around in fully-armed
warships. If thatrCOs the kind of deadly force they have access to, I
wonder what the *actual* rCLmilitary forcerCY in that universe is like?
Klingons, Romulans, ... ;-)
What about all those times they went into battle against Romulans
and Klingons and the Borg and who-knows-what-else? Did they ever
get backup from a separate rCLproperrCY military force?
That's the "peacekeeping" part.
Nope. They were it. They *are* the rCLproperrCY military force. No ifs or
buts, no more hemming and hawing about it.
Military do not do usually do exploration (other then for
reconnaissance purposes) nor diplomacy.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 09:34:34 +1300, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-02-11 07:29:11 +0000, Lawrence D-|Oliveiro said:
An organization where everybody is an officer, and there are no
enlisted personnel!
There areplenty of enlisted personnel ... they were original the
expendable "red shirts" (until some fool in charge of the shows decied
to swap the shirt colours around).
So who does the grunt work now? YourCOd think they would have more
robots. Lots more robots. Remember what I said about automation
obviating the necessity for large ship crews?
rCLNot a purely military forcerCY, yet they go around in fully-armed
warships. If thatrCOs the kind of deadly force they have access to, I
wonder what the *actual* rCLmilitary forcerCY in that universe is like?
Klingons, Romulans, ... ;-)
What about all those times they went into battle against Romulans
and Klingons and the Borg and who-knows-what-else? Did they ever
get backup from a separate rCLproperrCY military force?
That's the "peacekeeping" part.
On the one hand you are saying that the Federation depends on erstwhile enemies to be the proper rCLmilitary forcerCY, yet on the other Starfleet
on its own was able to defeat their ambitions of conquests in the first place.
Part-time amateur soldiers do not, as a rule, tend to do well against a professionally-trained fighting force.
Nope. They were it. They *are* the rCLproperrCY military force. No ifs or >>> buts, no more hemming and hawing about it.
Military do not do usually do exploration (other then for
reconnaissance purposes) nor diplomacy.
Which is what I've been saying all along. You need professional
researchers and explorers to do proper research and exploration. You
can'Ot entrust delicate work to operatives whose fingers are never far
from some deadly triggers indeed.
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