• MT VOID, 07/24/26 -- Vol. 45, No. 4, Whole Number 2442

    From Evelyn C. Leeper@evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Jul 26 08:55:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    THE MT VOID
    07/24/26 -- Vol. 45, No. 4, Whole Number 2442

    Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
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    The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
    An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at <http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

    Topics:
    NEW YORK (mini-series review by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Last Week's Neglected Gems (comment by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Space Jam and Earth-Like Exoplanet with Atmosphere
    (pointers by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Matt Damon Just Wants to Go Home (film comments
    by Paul S. R. Chisholm)
    Science vs. Scientific Knowledge (letter of comment
    by Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
    THE DISH (letters of comment by Paul Dormer, Scott Dorsey,
    and Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
    BRAINSTORM (letters of comment by Steve Coltrin
    and Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
    KNIGHTRIDERS (letter of comment by Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
    Non-Existent Books (letter of comment by Hal Heydt)
    THE WORLD THE CIVIL WAR MADE (letters of comment
    by Paul Dormer and Keith F. Lynch)
    This Week's Reading ("Masterpieces of Short Fiction",
    Part 1) (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: NEW YORK (mini-series review by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    This is more a collection of random thoughts and NEW YORK, the
    1999 mini-series by Ric Burns, than a review.

    DEI hatred goes way back: Peter Stuyvesant hated the diversity of
    New Amsterdam. When Central Park was being constructed, Seneca
    Village and other areas inhabited by African-Americans and the
    poor were razed, and its location far from lower Manhattan (where
    most of the poor lived) and strict regulations made it more a park
    for the wealthy than for all New Yorkers. And of course, there
    were the 1863 riots, which started as draft riots, but rapidly
    escalated into race riots. (And Episode Seven, about Robert Moses,
    shows that this tradition was carried on.)

    Washington Irving was the first American to earn his living as an
    author.

    Burns claims that De Witt Clinton was the most important person to
    live in New York because he oversaw the construction of the Erie
    Canal, which was the first real access to anything coming from the
    West. (His cousin, Simon De Witt, helped design the grid system of
    Manhattan's streets.)

    Trigger warning for Episode Four: it has The Don in it.

    The peak year for immigration seems to have been 1907, with over a
    million immigrants. During this period (1890-1920), the Irish
    looked down on the Italians the same way the English had looked
    down on the Irish.

    In Episode Six, the narrator refers to 1944 being the third year
    of World War II. No, it was the *fifth* year: September 1, 1939,
    is almost always given as the start of World War II. And that is
    ignoring all the fighting in China (starting in 1937) or Ethiopia
    (starting in 1935).

    Episode Seven ends on an upbeat note, but is still very depressing
    for two reasons. First, much of what it covers is how Robert Moses
    (and other urban planners) destroyed much of what made New York
    New York, and ruined tens of thousands of lives--possibly hundreds
    of thousands--in the process. And second, though it ends talking
    about how New York recovered from the loss of manufacturing, the
    exodus to the suburbs, and the financial crisis, throughout the
    series we have been seeing shots of New York showing the World
    Trade Center in the background (or from the air). The series (and
    this episode) were from 1999, and we know what's coming, even
    though Burns didn't. It's as if someone made a documentary in 1928
    about how wonderful everything was going. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Last Week's Neglected Gems (comment by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    I just noticed that all three of last week's "neglected gems" had
    titles that were compound words: KNIGHTRIDERS, LIFEFORCE, and
    BRAINSTORM. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Space Jam and Earth-Like Exoplanet with Atmosphere
    (pointers by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    From (where else?) The Guardian:

    "Space jam: astronomers detect 'raspberry sugar' on dust cloud in
    Milky Way

    "Detection of erythrulose shows compounds that are key to life can
    form in expanse between stars

    "The simple sugar erythrulose appears to be produced through
    chemical reactions on tiny interstellar dust grains. A natural
    sugar found in raspberries and used in fake tan lotions has been
    detected in an enormous cloud of dust and gas that lurks near the
    heart of the Milky Way. The discovery does not suggest that the
    galaxy revolves around a distant civilisation of pale,
    safety-conscious frugivores, but shows that compounds important
    for life can form in the frigid expanse between the stars."

    Full story at:

    <https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/jul/13/ natural-sugar-cloud-dust-gas-milky-way-erythrulose>


    Also from The Guardian:

    "Earth-like exoplanet found to have an atmosphere

    "Scientists discover the first confirmed atmosphere around rocky
    planet outside our solar system that is within the habitable zone

    "The search for life outside our solar system has taken another
    twist as researchers revealed they have discovered an atmosphere
    around an Earth-like planet 49 light years away that could have
    liquid water on its surface. Atmospheres have previously been
    found around gas giant exoplanets as well as 'sub-Neptunes'. There
    have also been signs of such envelopes around rocky exoplanets
    that sit outside their star's habitable zone--a region in which
    liquid water could exist on the planet's surface, and hence
    potentially support life. But the new discovery is different.
    'This is the first actually observationally confirmed atmosphere
    on a rocky planet in the habitable zone outside of our solar
    system,' said Dr Collin Cherubim, the first author of the study,
    who until recently was based at Harvard University."

    Full story at:

    <https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/jul/16/ atmosphere-lhs-1140b-exoplanet-could-water-scientists>

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Matt Damon Just Wants to Go Home (film comments by Paul
    S. R. Chisholm)

    Matt Damon just wants to go home.

    More accurately, his characters do:

    - The title character in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, albeit reluctantly.
    - Loki in DOGMA, actively, ruat caelum. (He also portrays the actor
    who portrays Loki in THOR: RAGNAROK and THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER.)
    - John Grady Cole in ALL THE PRETTY HORSES.
    - Dr. Mann in INTERSTELLAR.
    - The title character, Mark Watney, in THE MARTIAN.
    - Odysseus, the title character of THE ODYSSEY.

    More:
    - The title character in THE BOURNE IDENTITY tries to mentally
    return.
    - Rannulph Junuh in THE LEGEND OF BAGGER VANCE physically returns
    to Savannah and then needs to return to his abilities as a
    golfer.
    - In THE MONUMENT MEN, James Granger works to return artwork stolen
    by the Nazis.
    - David Norris tries to return to Elise Sellas in THE ADJUSTMENT
    BUREAU.

    Time Magazine suggests a few more:

    <https://time.com/4162254/cost-of-rescuing-matt-damon/>

    Maybe someone can weave WE BOUGHT A ZOO into this narrative, but
    I can't. [-psrc]

    Evelyn notes:

    Coincidentally, I am listening to the Teaching Company's
    "Masterpieces of the Imaginative Mind: Literature's Most Fantastic
    Works" by Prof. Eric S. Rabkin. In the introductory lecture he
    talks about Vladimir Propp's thirty-one basic "functions" in
    Russian fairy tales, of which #20 is "the hero travels back to his
    home". This idea also appears in Joseph Campbell's "Hero's
    Journey" with seventeen functions in three groups, the third of
    which is "Return".

    So while the idea that characters in films are trying to return
    home may not be universal, it certainly has its place in stories
    centered around a hero. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Science vs. Scientific Knowledge (letter of comment by
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro)

    In response to Greg Frederick's review of THE EDGE OF KNOWLEDGE in
    the 07/03/26 issue of the MT VOID, Lawrence D'Oliveiro writes:

    [Greg writes:] "One of the book's most compelling themes is the
    idea that ignorance, when approached scientifically, is productive
    rather than discouraging. Krauss argues that science advances not
    by claiming certainty but by continually testing ideas and
    confronting unanswered questions. He reminds readers that many
    concepts that seem obvious today for example; the age of the
    Earth, the existence of galaxies beyond our own, or the structure
    of DNA, all were once
    mysteries. By placing today's unsolved problems in historical
    context, he demonstrates how scientific knowledge evolves through
    curiosity, skepticism, and evidence." [-gf]

    Worth distinguishing between
    * "Science" -- the process of acquiring knowledge
    * "Scientific knowledge" -- the product of the process, which also
    feeds back into the process.

    Every human culture has its own store of traditional knowledge,
    acquired over many centuries or millennia. But ask them about
    their processes for acquiring knowledge, or for verifying its
    correctness, and you draw a blank. Everybody simply assumes their
    traditional knowledge is correct. And no-one has any idea where it
    actually came from.

    Science is about making those points explicit. [-ldo]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE DISH (letters of comment by Paul Dormer, Scott Dorsey,
    and Lawrence D'Oliveiro)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on THE DISH in the 07/17/26 issue
    of the MT VOID, Paul Dormer writes:

    I remember seeing that on TV many years ago. [-pd]

    Scott Dorsey adds:

    It is one of my favorite films ever. We showed a beautiful 35mm
    print of it at Arisia one year and we got a small but very
    appreciative audience.

    And yes, I did give the five-minute talk about quadrant tracking
    systems first because I don't think the film explains adequately
    why it's so bad to lose the bogey. [-sd]

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro adds:

    Jokes were made about the radio telescope being situated in the
    middle of a sheep paddock.

    But then again, where would be a better place to put it ...? [-ldo]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: BRAINSTORM (letters of comment by Steve Coltrin and
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on BRAINSTORM in the 07/17/26
    issue of the MT VOID, Steve Coltrin writes:

    [Evelyn writes,] "BRAINSTORM (1983): Watching the film this time,
    I found myself thinking of the Babel Fish from THE HITCHHIKER'S
    GUIDE TO THE GALAXY. The idea is that by allowing direct recording
    of memories, feelings, etc., we could achieve understanding of
    other people and hence resolve conflicts." [-ecl]

    Ooh, this would be a good double feature with STRANGE DAYS (1995),
    in which society has contemplated that idea and said "hahahaha no".

    Similarly:

    [Evelyn writes,] "The film does look at other uses of the
    technology, including two of the most popular uses to which any
    new technology is applied: war and pornography." [-ecl]

    And one of [STRANGE DAYS's] principal characters is one such
    pornographer. Add in a predicted 1999-12-31 which was a) much
    more interesting than mine and b) eerily prophetic of more recent
    years, while having the sunny belief that they might not lead to
    as shitty a place as we're in now. (Some things would not put
    butts in seats back in 1995.) [-sc]

    As I understand it, STRANGE DAYS was rather hard to find for some
    time; currently it is streaming courtesy the Mouse. [-sc]

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro writes:

    [Evelyn writes,] "The film suffers by having its star Natalie Wood
    die two-thirds of the way through filming, so some scenes had to
    be filmed with her sister Lana Wood as a stand-in with modified
    camera angles." [-ecl]

    Also its release got held up by over a year, I think as a result
    of said misfortune.

    Also Douglas Trumbull's directorial debut--he who was responsible
    for the memorable special effects on 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY (for
    which director Stanley Kubrick took the credit--and the Oscar).

    Every few years, it seems, the Feds want to go back to Robert
    Wagner and talk to him about that last night his wife was alive
    ... [-ldo]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: KNIGHTRIDERS (letter of comment by Lawrence D'Oliveiro)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on KNIGHTRIDERS in the 07/17/26
    issue of the MT VOID, Lawrence D'Oliveiro writes:

    [Evelyn writes,] "(And the carnage is what probably brought in the
    audiences. We used to attend a Renaissance Fair in Tuxedo, New
    York, with the main attraction for us being the staging of a
    Shakespeare play. Then one year when we called to ask which play
    they were doing, they said they had dropped it, because it had
    always been scheduled against the joust as the last main events of
    the day, but almost everyone went to the joust instead and it
    wasn't worth the expense.)" [-ecl]

    There are fight scenes in Shakespeare. It's just a matter of
    making them suitably graphic.

    As Uncle Fester did, to totally gratuitous excess, in the first
    "Addams Family" movie ...

    Or was it really him? [-ldo]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Non-Existent Books (letter of comment by Hal Heydt)

    In response to Joe Karpierz's review of DEATH OF THE AUTHOR in the
    07/17/26 issue of the MT VOID, Hal Heydt writes:

    In Dorothy's (published) novel A POINT OF HONOR she wrote in
    internal reference to a non-existent work, THE GOLDEN ROAD. Some
    of her friends immediately piped up wanting to read THE
    [line missing] [s]o there it sits as an un-published (but
    complete) work. It needs at least one minor edit, but is a full
    work. [-hh]

    Evelyn adds:

    Stanislaw Lem wrote three collections of reviews of non-existent
    books: A PERFECT VACUUM, PROVOCATION, and ONE HUMAN MINUTE. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE WORLD THE CIVIL WAR MADE (letters of comment by Paul
    Dormer and Keith F. Lynch)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on THE WORLD THE CIVIL WAR MADE
    in the 07/17/26 issue of the MT VOID, Paul Dormer writes:

    Cromwell has a lot to answer for. [-pd]

    Evelyn notes:

    But one thing Jews remember him for is that he finally let Jews
    back into England in 1656, after they had been expelled by Edward
    I in 1290. [-ecl]

    Keith F. Lynch replies:

    It's odd that England has had numerous civil wars, but "The
    English Civil War" only refers to the 1640s one. Similarly, it
    has had several regencies, but "The Regency" refers only to
    1811-1820. And it has had eleven kings called Edward, but the
    "Edwardian era" refers only to the rule of Edward VII, so called
    because his name was Albert and nine previous kings had been named
    Edward.

    By contrast, the American Civil War wasn't a civil war at all.
    The South was not attempting to put Jefferson Davis in the White
    House. [-kfl]

    [A long discussion followed about what constitutes a civil war,
    which appears to resolve as "a civil war is what I point to when I
    say it." -ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    "Masterpieces of Short Fiction" was one of the Great
    Courses/Teaching Company courses that I picked up at Second Time
    Books, taught by Professor Michael Krasny. Since I am reading all
    the stories, I will comment on them, but since they are short
    stories, the comments will also be short (well, mostly).

    1. "The Cask of Amontillado" by Edgar Allan Poe: This was also the
    introductory lecture, so Krasny spent a lot of time introducing
    the concept of the short story, and so he spent less on the actual
    story than he did in subsequent lectures. For this one, I got more
    from the notes in the copy I read than from the lecture. The
    notes, for example, pointed out that Montressor is quite ignorant
    about Amontillado (and wine, for that matter)--he apparently
    doesn't know it is a sherry, for example. Whether this is
    intentional on Poe's part, or that Poe himself was confused, is
    not clear. (Krasny pronounces it with "lla" as "la" rather than as
    "ya", which I think is incorrect, and also refers to a "space
    capsule" when he means a "time capsule".)

    2. "Young Goodman Brown" by Nathaniel Hawthorne: At the beginning,
    the narrator claims that Faith is "aptly named", so unless we are
    to believe them to be an unreliable narrator, we have to believe
    she is not actually at the Witches' Sabbath. So the two
    possibilities are that her appearance there is an illusion
    generated by the Devil to fool Goodman Brown, or that the whole
    thing is a dream. Krasny seems to find significance in the
    character being called "Goodman Brown", which indicates to me that
    he doesn't realize that "Goodman" was a title the equivalent of
    "Mister". There is an irony there, but it is not as though
    Hawthorne chose the name out of a whole pool of possibilities.

    I think this story probably inspired "The Devil and Daniel
    Webster" by Stephen Vincent Benet. In "Young Goodman Brown", the
    Devil tells Goodman Brown, "I have been as well acquainted with
    your family as with ever a one among the Puritans; and thatrCOs no
    trifle to say. I helped your grandfather, the constable, when he
    lashed the Quaker woman so smartly through the streets of Salem;
    and it was I that brought your father a pitch-pine knot, kindled
    at my own hearth, to set fire to an Indian village, in King
    PhiliprCOs war." In "The Devil and Daniel Webster", Webster insists
    on an American jury, and what does he get?

    "For there was Walter Butler, the loyalist, who spread fire and
    horror through the Mohawk Valley in the times of the Revolution;
    and there was Simon Girty, the renegade, who saw white men burned
    at the stake and whooped with the Indians to see them burn. His
    eyes were green, like a catamount's, and the stains on his hunting
    shirt did not come from the blood of the deer. King Philip was
    there, wild and proud as he had been in life, with the great gash
    in his head that gave him his death wound, and cruel Governor
    Dale, who broke men on the wheel. There was Morton of Merry Mount,
    who so vexed the Plymouth Colony, with his flushed, loose,
    handsome face and his hate of the godly. There was Teach, the
    bloody pirate, with his black beard curling on his breast. The
    Reverend John Smeet, with his strangler's hands and his Geneva
    gown, walked as daintily as he had to the gallows. The red print
    of the rope was still around his neck, but he carried a perfumed
    handkerchief in one hand. One and all, they came into the room
    with the fires of hell still upon them, and the stranger named
    their names and their deeds as they came, till the tale of twelve
    was told. Yet the stranger had told the truthrCothey had all played
    a part in America."

    3. "The Overcoat" by Nikolai Gogol: Like the next story ("The
    Necklace" by Guy de Maupassant), this is basically a "be-careful-what-you-wish-for" tale. Akaky Akakievich
    Bashmachkin's name means "harmless", but also sounds like the
    Russian for poop, so the reader already thinks of him as a
    schlimazel. He needs a new overcoat, and by scrimping and saving,
    is able to buy one. He glories in it, but it is ultimately the
    cause of his downfall.

    4. "The Necklace" (a.k.a. "The Diamond Necklace") by Guy de
    Maupassant: Reading this I was struck by two things. First, early
    on it follows the general outline of the Cinderella story. (That I
    just listened to the "Classical Stuff You Should Know" episode on
    Cinderella probably had something to do with this.) Mathilde lives
    a dreary life, and when there's a ball, she can't go because she
    doesn't have a gown, or jewels. Then somehow they are provided,
    and she goes and charms everyone. (After this, the story
    diverges.) It is also clear that authors such as O. Henry were
    influenced by the story.

    Maupassant does seem to have a very classist attitude. In spite of
    saying, "Natural ingenuity, instinct for what is elegant, a supple
    mind are [women's] sole hierarchy, and often make of women of the
    people the equals of the very greatest ladies," Maupassant seems
    to imply that Mathilde's problems arise because she is not
    satisfied with her place in life.

    And there is something about Maupassant saying, "She would have
    liked so much to please," followed by "to be envied, to be
    charming, to be sought after," that implies she doesn't so much
    want to please others, but herself. She's not as sympathetic a
    protagonist as one might think.

    And her husband is no prize. He's been stashing money away to buy
    himself a gun and have a shooting vacation--instead of spending a
    little bit to make his wife's life a little easier or pleasanter.

    And like "The Overcoat", this is about someone who wishes for
    something they think is wonderful, revels in it, and then pays a
    big price.

    5. "The Lady with the Dog" by Anton Chekhov: I have read this
    story a couple of times and frankly, it does nothing for me.
    Apparently it's considered a classic, one of Chekhov's best, but I
    can't see it. I don't feel this way about all of Chekhov's work,
    though I lean more to the dramas. Of the "Big Four", I think UNCLE
    VANYA, THE SEAGULL, and THE CHERRY ORCHARD are excellent; I am
    less keen on THREE SISTERS.

    My one "complaint" is that Chekhov seems to have a very negative
    view of middle-aged women. In both THE SEAGULL and THE CHERRY
    ORCHARD, the older women are total "flibbertigibbets"--neither has
    any business sense, or any concept of money. Madame Lyubov
    Andreievna Ranevskaya in THE CHERRY ORCHARD refuses to make any
    decision that might save the estate, relying on some sort of
    miracle while handing out outrageous tips and alms. Irina
    Nikolayevna Arkadina in THE SEAGULL is totally self-centered and
    won't even give her son money to replace his shabby clothes, or to
    buy him a coat, with the excuse that as an actress all her money
    is spent on *her* clothes. For that matter, Helena Andreyevna
    Serebryakova in Uncle Vanya is not middle-aged (she is 27), but
    she also seems to lead a useless life and can't manage to do
    anything useful. It is not clear that the woman in "The Lady with
    the Dog" is any better, but again, she is young, and apparently
    neither she nor the narrator can come up with a concrete plan to
    resolve their problem. Maybe that's just what Chekhov likes to
    write about.

    6. "The Real Thing" by Henry James: Umberto Eco once wrote an
    essay about hyperreality. EBSCO describes it thusly, "Eco examines
    how Americans create and venerate perfect replicas of reality,
    allowing him to reflect on philosophical questions about the
    nature of reality itself. The title essay highlights his
    observations during a road trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles,
    where he encounters various hyperrealistic representations, such
    as wax replicas of Leonardo da Vinci's 'The Last Supper' and
    meticulous recreations of historical spaces like the Oval Office.
    Through these examples, Eco raises critical inquiries about
    authenticity and representation, engaging with longstanding
    philosophical debates about what constitutes reality." Henry James
    did it almost a century before, in this story about how two
    professional models are better able to represent a variety of
    types of people than the actual types themselves, i.e., they can
    seem more representative of an upper-class couple than an actual
    upper-class couple. ("Travels in Hyperreality" was written in
    1986; James write "The Real Thing" in 1892.)

    7. "Araby" by James Joyce: This story apparently has a lot of
    references to Catholicism which were not obvious to me. It also is
    a move away from 19th century story-telling and into the 20th
    century. I will have to see how the rest of the 20th century
    stories strike me, but this one (and many of Joyce's stories) just
    don't connect with me, or vice versa.

    8. "My First Goose" by Isaac Babel: This is probably the shortest
    story in this class. The main character, a bookish sort, is
    assigned to a Cossack unit, and initially they ridicule him. So he
    brutally kills an old woman's goose and demands that she cook it
    for them, and then he is accepted. Babel had a strange
    relationship with the Cossacks. Presumably as a Jew he would
    despise and fear them, but instead he rode with them.

    9. "The Killers" by Ernest Hemingway: This is a Hemingway story.
    Two men come into a diner. They are looking for another man. They
    tie up the owner and the cook. Later the two go away and a patron
    goes to warn the victim. He warns him. The victim doesn't try to
    get away. The patron goes back to the diner. The cook doesn't seem
    to care. The patron decides to leave town.

    10. "A Hunger Artist" by Franz Kafka: As I note below this seems
    to be somewhat related to "A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings",
    although more in its use of the carnival/circus themes than in
    straight magical realism. The idea of the carnival/circus as a
    fictional setting recurs in other authors as well, notably Ray
    Bradbury, Angela Carter, and William Lindsay Gresham.

    11. "Rocking-Horse Winner" by D. H. Lawrence: We all wish we could
    see the future, and often as not it is to know the winning lottery
    numbers. But before the lottery there were horse races (and there
    still are) and that was what people dreamt of knowing. Lawrence
    looks at the idea that this knowledge is not free, that it comes
    with a price, and also that the drive for money can overwhelm all
    reason and natural feeling. The boy pushes himself beyond all
    reason because he hears his parents always talking about money;
    the parents encourage him because all they think of is the money.

    This has been made into a classic film in 1949 with Valerie Hobson
    and John Mills, as well as a later made-for-television film and
    two shorts.

    12. "The Garden Party" by Katherine Mansfield: "The Garden Party"
    is a study in opposites: upper class and lower class, empathy and insensitivity, life and death. Laura wants to empathize with the
    lower class, but can't escape her own upbringing. She expresses
    sympathy for the bereaved family, but goes ahead with the party.
    She sees death, but thinks it looks like life.

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Evelyn C. Leeper
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com


    It is never too late to be what you might have been.
    --George Eliot

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Keith F. Lynch@kfl@KeithLynch.net to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Thu Aug 6 23:16:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Evelyn wrote:
    But one thing Jews remember him for is that he [Cromwell] finally
    let Jews back into England in 1656, after they had been expelled by
    Edward I in 1290.

    That means that they were back longer than they were gone as of 2022.
    Did anyone notice and commemorate this at the time?

    The action of noticing when something became twice as long ago
    as something else, or that something was unexpectedly recent or
    unexpectedly long ago, is called timeghosting, after this comic strip: https://xkcd.com/1393/

    I seem to be the only one who noticed this January that it had been
    longer since JFK was assassinated than that assassination was after
    McKinley was shot, setting a new record time since a US president
    had been murdered.

    I also seem to be the only one who noticed when it had been just as
    long after Janis Joplin's death as that was after Scott Joplin's
    death. Perhaps because most people who enjoy the music of one of
    them don't care for the music of the other.

    Some of the more unusual or unexpected timeghosts include:

    Cleopatra, who ruled Egypt in the BC years, lived closer to the
    present than to when the pyramids were built.

    The first Tyrannosaurus Rex lived closer to the release date of
    Jurassic Park than to the actual Jurassic.

    We're now further from World War II than the end of World War II
    was from the end of the Civil War.

    Many Civil War veterans lived to see _Gone With the Wind_. But
    one adult actress in it, Olivia de Haviland, lived until 2020.
    Ironically, her character died young in the movie.

    The first spaceship was closer in time to the first airplane than
    to the present.

    An eyewitness to the Lincoln assassination was interviewed about in
    on television.

    We tend to think of aboriginal people as having been around everywhere
    since time immemorial. But Europeans have been aware of New Zealand
    for most of the time that any humans have. But this was not yet true
    when I visited New Zealand.

    It was nearly a century between the first transatlantic telegraph
    cable and the first transatlantic telephone cable.

    Can anyone else think of any good ones? Thanks.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Fri Aug 7 00:39:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 23:16:38 -0000 (UTC), Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    Some of the more unusual or unexpected timeghosts include:

    Cleopatra, who ruled Egypt in the BC years, lived closer to the
    present than to when the pyramids were built.

    Ancient Egypt was way, waaaayyyy ancient, ho yus! I think they were
    only the second place where the idea of civilization took root, just a
    few centuries after Mesopotamia.

    If you put the peak of Classical Greece as starting around 500BC, I
    think that puts it closer to the present age than to early
    Mesopotamian civilization.

    The first Tyrannosaurus Rex lived closer to the release date of
    Jurassic Park than to the actual Jurassic.

    I remember a magazine article, appearing somewhere around 1990 (a bit
    after?), pointing out that rCLpunk is now older than hippie was when
    punk first came outrCY.

    Personally I think hippie has withstood the ages a bit better than
    punk has ...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gary McGath@garym@mcgath.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Fri Aug 7 12:40:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On 8/6/26 7:16 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Can anyone else think of any good ones? Thanks.

    A grandson of President John Tyler, whose term was 1841-1845, died only
    last year.
    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kfl@kfl@panix.com (Keith F. Lynch) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sat Aug 8 03:23:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Can anyone else think of any good ones? Thanks.

    A grandson of President John Tyler, whose term was 1841-1845, died
    only last year.

    Yes. And Tyler was born in 1790.

    The last Civil War pension was paid in 2020, to the last surviving
    daughter of a veteran. So that war is finally paid for. At this
    rate World War I should be paid for by about 2070, and World War II
    by 2100 -- assuming life expectancies don't increase by then.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@admin@127.0.0.1 to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Aug 9 10:24:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 00:39:09 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 23:16:38 -0000 (UTC), Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    Some of the more unusual or unexpected timeghosts include:

    Cleopatra, who ruled Egypt in the BC years, lived closer to the
    present than to when the pyramids were built.

    Ancient Egypt was way, waaaayyyy ancient, ho yus! I think they were
    only the second place where the idea of civilization took root, just a
    few centuries after Mesopotamia.

    If you put the peak of Classical Greece as starting around 500BC, I
    think that puts it closer to the present age than to early
    Mesopotamian civilization.

    The first Tyrannosaurus Rex lived closer to the release date of
    Jurassic Park than to the actual Jurassic.

    Internet v CB radio?


    I remember a magazine article, appearing somewhere around 1990 (a bit after?), pointing out that rCLpunk is now older than hippie was when
    punk first came outrCY.

    Personally I think hippie has withstood the ages a bit better than
    punk has ...


    Up yours, hippy!
    (#234...)

    (Now playing - one chord wonders)
    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Aug 9 20:39:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:24:18 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

    Up yours, hippy!

    I thought it was rCLget a haircut!rCY.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From djheydt@djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Aug 9 21:01:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <115aoht$2k6t1$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence D Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:24:18 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

    Up yours, hippy!

    I thought it was rCLget a haircut!rCY.

    [Hal Heydt]
    Back in the--relevant--day, my father was a field service rep
    (aka "techrep") working with the Navy, stationed at North Island
    Naval Air Station in Coronado, CA (that's just across the bay
    from San Diego). Since the Navy, for it's own purposes,
    considered techreps to be equivalent to NCOs (as opposed to the
    US Air Force that considered them to be the equivalent of
    officers), on occasion my father would go to the base NCO club.
    There he would find Navy chiefs with 20+ years in the service,
    balding where they didn't cut their hair *very* short, complaing
    about them "damned, long-haired hippies." My father's response
    was to ask them if they were jealous.

    There is some irony in the various services treatment of
    techreps. My father had served 6 years in the Navy, coming out
    as an Electricians Mate. He later served a bit over 12 years in
    the Maritime Service, leaving it as a Lt. Commander. So he
    actually was an officer.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@admin@127.0.0.1 to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Aug 10 09:50:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 20:39:25 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 10:24:18 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

    Up yours, hippy!

    I thought it was rCLget a haircut!rCY.
    That'd be the older generations view.

    I'm coming up later, angry at the lack of progress in peace & love.
    So 12FU!
    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2