From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/6/26 6:49 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

On 7/5/26 21:10, Gary McGath wrote:

On 7/5/26 9:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

TOPIC: "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment by Paul
Dormer)

In response to Anonymous's comments on Noel Coward, zeugma, and
"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" in the 06/26/26 issue of the MT VOID,
Paul Dormer writes:

"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" is a song by comedy duo Flanders and
Swann, whose song "I'm a Gnu" really amused me as a kid.-a The
Hippopotamus song, "Mud, Glorious Mud", also appealed to me.-a They
did a song called "The Slow Train" about the closure of railway
branch lines which is strangely moving, and they did a song
explaining the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

In some filk circles, there used to be a ritual for new filkers, which
involved having them sit in the middle of the circle and play the role
of the victim, although they rarely or never knew what the song was
about. I found this annoying and objected to it. It no longer happens
in any filk circle I know of, and I like to think I had a role in
ending it.

I not only don't know what the song is about, I don't know which song
you're talking about.

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/6/26 19:58, Gary McGath wrote:

On 7/6/26 6:49 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

On 7/5/26 21:10, Gary McGath wrote:

On 7/5/26 9:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

TOPIC: "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment by Paul
Dormer)

In response to Anonymous's comments on Noel Coward, zeugma, and
"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" in the 06/26/26 issue of the MT VOID,
Paul Dormer writes:

"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" is a song by comedy duo Flanders and
Swann, whose song "I'm a Gnu" really amused me as a kid.-a The
Hippopotamus song, "Mud, Glorious Mud", also appealed to me.-a They
did a song called "The Slow Train" about the closure of railway
branch lines which is strangely moving, and they did a song
explaining the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

In some filk circles, there used to be a ritual for new filkers,
which involved having them sit in the middle of the circle and play
the role of the victim, although they rarely or never knew what the
song was about. I found this annoying and objected to it. It no
longer happens in any filk circle I know of, and I like to think I
had a role in ending it.

I not only don't know what the song is about, I don't know which song
you're talking about.

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."

Okay, now I'm not sure how someone is a victim in a filk circle from
this. Maybe it's a filk thing.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. -rCoAnne Lamott
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/6/2026 8:27 PM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

On 7/6/26 19:58, Gary McGath wrote:

On 7/6/26 6:49 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

On 7/5/26 21:10, Gary McGath wrote:

On 7/5/26 9:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

TOPIC: "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment by Paul
Dormer)

In response to Anonymous's comments on Noel Coward, zeugma, and
"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" in the 06/26/26 issue of the MT VOID,
Paul Dormer writes:

"Have Some Madeira, M'dear" is a song by comedy duo Flanders and
Swann, whose song "I'm a Gnu" really amused me as a kid.-a The
Hippopotamus song, "Mud, Glorious Mud", also appealed to me.-a They
did a song called "The Slow Train" about the closure of railway
branch lines which is strangely moving, and they did a song
explaining the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

In some filk circles, there used to be a ritual for new filkers,
which involved having them sit in the middle of the circle and play
the role of the victim, although they rarely or never knew what the
song was about. I found this annoying and objected to it. It no
longer happens in any filk circle I know of, and I like to think I
had a role in ending it.

I not only don't know what the song is about, I don't know which song
you're talking about.

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."

Okay, now I'm not sure how someone is a victim in a filk circle from
this. Maybe it's a filk thing.

You're not the only one wondering....

pt
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

Gary McGath wrote:

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."

Okay, now I'm not sure how someone is a victim in a filk circle from
this. Maybe it's a filk thing.

If I understand correctly, the claim is that this filk is an offensive celebration of alcohol-fueled sexual abuse.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

I not only don't know what the song is about, I don't know which song
you're talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hO4qvEtPZ4

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/6/26 8:27 PM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

I not only don't know what the song is about, I don't know which song
you're talking about.

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."

Okay, now I'm not sure how someone is a victim in a filk circle from
this. Maybe it's a filk thing.

It was a filk thing once. The idea was just that the song was performed
with someone singing the villain's role to the new filker in the middle
of the circle. It put newcomers on the spot and made them feel
uncomfortable. They could decline, of course, but then they probably
wouldn't want to come back.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/6/26 11:32 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

Gary McGath wrote:

Sorry, quoted too much. The song in question is "Have Some Madeira."

Okay, now I'm not sure how someone is a victim in a filk circle from
this. Maybe it's a filk thing.

If I understand correctly, the claim is that this filk is an offensive celebration of alcohol-fueled sexual abuse.

I don't object to the song as such, though some people do. It plays off
the tropes of old melodramas, but people not familiar with the genre may
not recognize it as satire. It's putting newcomers into the position of playing the victim, when they didn't even know what they were getting
into, that was a stupid thing to do in a community that prides itself on
being welcoming.

It's gone now, and I don't think anyone would try to bring it back.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/5/2026 8:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE MT VOID
07/03/26 -- Vol. 45, No. 1, Whole Number 2439

Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
the author unless otherwise noted.
All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
inclusion unless otherwise noted.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send mail to
-a-a-a evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at <http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

Topics:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Mini Reviews, Part 19 (STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION--
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Angel One", LADIES FIRST, NO MEN BEYOND
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THIS POINT) (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THE EDGE OF KNOWLEDGE by Lawrence Krauss (book review
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Gregory Frederick)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a The Rest of July on TCM (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Paul Dormer)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a This Week's Reading (CALL ME ISHMAELLE) (book comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments by
Evelyn C. Leeper)

I feel about America's 250th anniversary the way Margot felt in
Ray Bradbury's "All Summer in a Day". [-ecl]

...

Ah yes, I read that a long time ago. Margot was the little girl who got
stuck into a closet when it stopped raining for the first time in seven
years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day

I think that the 250th anniversary was neat but we did not do anything
special other than walk our normal two miles at dusk outside in the heat
and mosquitoes. I have traveled extensively outside the USA, lived in
England for the summer of 1973, and I love the USA. Especially Texas
even though it is hotter than Hell right now, hitting 100 F every day as
it is normal to do so in Texas this time of year until October.

Lynn

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/8/2026 3:34 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 7/5/2026 8:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE MT VOID
07/03/26 -- Vol. 45, No. 1, Whole Number 2439

Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
the author unless otherwise noted.
All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
inclusion unless otherwise noted.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send mail to
-a-a-a-a evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at
<http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

Topics:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Mini Reviews, Part 19 (STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION--
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Angel One", LADIES FIRST, NO MEN BEYOND
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THIS POINT) (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THE EDGE OF KNOWLEDGE by Lawrence Krauss (book review
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Gregory Frederick)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a The Rest of July on TCM (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Paul Dormer)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a This Week's Reading (CALL ME ISHMAELLE) (book comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments by
Evelyn C. Leeper)

I feel about America's 250th anniversary the way Margot felt in
Ray Bradbury's "All Summer in a Day". [-ecl]

...

Ah yes, I read that a long time ago.

[spoiler elided -pt]

-a-a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day

We used to put spoiler warnings and space before things like that.

I think that the 250th anniversary was neat but we did not do anything special other than walk our normal two miles at dusk outside in the heat
and mosquitoes.-a I have traveled extensively outside the USA, lived in England for the summer of 1973, and I love the USA.-a Especially Texas
even though it is hotter than Hell right now, hitting 100 F every day as
it is normal to do so in Texas this time of year until October.

Hmm... you were in England at the same time I was in a 'public school'
in Somerset.....

But in 1976 we came back to the States for a vacation, rented a aircraft-carrier sized Ford LTD, and drove NY -> LA -> SF ->
CHI -> NY, with many stops.

The Bicentennial was celebrated everywhere - of course there were big
set pieces in the historical East Coast cities [1], but every where
there were local grassroots events, it was very inclusive, and we didn't
have factions trying to own it. It was a party atmosphere all summer,
a party at which all were welcome.

The 250th celebrations seem utterly lame in comparison. My wife and
I drove up a beach town in Maine we like, and walked up
and down the strand.

pt

[1] The director of Bicentennial commemorations for NYC, when asked
how NY would handle the fact that NYC was under British occupation
for nearly the entire war, is reported to have said "Largely by
ignoring it".




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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 7/8/2026 2:34 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 7/5/2026 8:43 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE MT VOID
07/03/26 -- Vol. 45, No. 1, Whole Number 2439

Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
the author unless otherwise noted.
All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
inclusion unless otherwise noted.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send mail to
-a-a-a-a evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at
<http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

Topics:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Mini Reviews, Part 19 (STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION--
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Angel One", LADIES FIRST, NO MEN BEYOND
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THIS POINT) (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a THE EDGE OF KNOWLEDGE by Lawrence Krauss (book review
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Gregory Frederick)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a The Rest of July on TCM (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Have Some Madeira, M'dear" (letter of comment
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Paul Dormer)
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a This Week's Reading (CALL ME ISHMAELLE) (book comments
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: My Reaction to America's 250th Anniversary (comments by
Evelyn C. Leeper)

I feel about America's 250th anniversary the way Margot felt in
Ray Bradbury's "All Summer in a Day". [-ecl]

...

Ah yes, I read that a long time ago.-a Margot was the little girl who got stuck into a closet when it stopped raining for the first time in seven years.
-a-a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day

I think that the 250th anniversary was neat but we did not do anything special other than walk our normal two miles at dusk outside in the heat
and mosquitoes.-a I have traveled extensively outside the USA, lived in England for the summer of 1973, and I love the USA.-a Especially Texas
even though it is hotter than Hell right now, hitting 100 F every day as
it is normal to do so in Texas this time of year until October.

Lynn

On top of the temperature my station has been showing a UV index of 12
almost every afternoon. 15 minutes of exposure can result in a sunburn.
San Antonio area.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 09:43:49 -0400, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

One of the book's most compelling themes is the idea that ignorance,
when approached scientifically, is productive rather than
discouraging. Krauss argues that science advances not by claiming
certainty but by continually testing ideas and confronting
unanswered questions. He reminds readers that many concepts that
seem obvious today for example; the age of the Earth, the existence
of galaxies beyond our own, or the structure of DNA, all were once
mysteries. By placing today's unsolved problems in historical
context, he demonstrates how scientific knowledge evolves through
curiosity, skepticism, and evidence.

Worth distinguishing between
* rCLSciencerCY -- the process of acquiring knowledge
* rCLScientific knowledgerCY -- the product of the process, which also
feeds back into the process.

Every human culture has its own store of traditional knowledge,
acquired over many centuries or millennia. But ask them about their
processes for acquiring knowledge, or for verifying its correctness,
and you draw a blank. Everybody simply assumes their traditional
knowledge is correct. And no-one has any idea where it actually came
from.

Science is about making those points explicit.
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