• MT VOID, 06/19/26 -- Vol. 44, No. 51, Whole Number 2437

    From Evelyn C. Leeper@evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Jun 21 07:56:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    THE MT VOID
    06/19/26 -- Vol. 44, No. 51, Whole Number 2437

    Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
    All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
    the author unless otherwise noted.
    All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
    inclusion unless otherwise noted.

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    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
    The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
    An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at <http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

    Topics:
    Correction
    "Fiddler on the Moon" (film review by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Jewish Time-Based Mitzvoth in a Lunar Colony (report on
    panel discussion at Noreascon 4, Worldcon 2004,
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Notes on MAGNIFICA HUMANITAS by Pope Leo XIV (comments
    by Paul S. R. Chisholm)
    Martial Arts Robot Kicks Child (comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Astronaut Mark Kelly's Top Three Space Movies
    THE SILVER STALLION (letter of comment by John Hertz)
    THE LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT Films
    (letter of comment by Gary McGath)
    This Week's Reading (AI-written stories) (book comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Correction

    In the 05/15/26 issue of the MT VOID, I typed part of John Hertz's
    letter of comment as:

    "Brother Wolansky's point of view is often valuable. He goes too
    far in saying Orwell's NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR is 'about' Stalin. As
    Nabakov said, to call a story a true story is an insult to both
    art and truth." [-jh]

    That should have been "Nabokov"--my typo, not John's/ [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: "Fiddler on the Moon" (film review by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    There used to be a fairly common panel at science fiction
    conventions (at least the ones I went to): "Jews in Space". There
    were two versions: science fiction about Jews in space, and how
    Jewish laws and customs would be followed in space. Well, now
    there's a short film about the latter version: "Fiddler on the
    Moon". An example of this panel follows this review.

    (Actually, "now" is not accurate. The film was made in 2005, but
    when it ran on PBS in New York this June, it was the first I had
    heard of it.)

    Some of the topics had been discussed at length on the
    panels--mostly things like how to determine when sunrise and
    sunset were, particularly for the Sabbath. But the film had some
    topics we missed--for example, matzoh. Jews are supposed to eat
    matzoh for Passover, but the amount of crumbs matzoh produces is a
    big non-no in zero gravity. Also, dreidels don't fall over in zero
    gravity.

    And while Jews on Mars will have sunrises and sunsets that are
    probably usable (though the Sabbath would be out of sync with
    Terra very quickly), but with the day being 40 minutes longer, or
    about 3%, the Jewish calendar would gradually get out of sync, by
    11 or 12 days a year, and soon there would be no commonality to
    when a holiday was observed on Terra with when it was observed on
    Mars. (The proposed solution is to add a day to each Jewish month
    on Mars.)

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Jewish Time-Based Mitzvoth in a Lunar Colony (report on
    panel discussion at Noreascon 4, Worldcon 2004, by Evelyn
    C. Leeper)

    Jewish Time-Based Mitzvoth in a Lunar Colony
    Sun 4:00PM, H101
    Nomi Burstein (m), Solomon Davidoff, Janice Gelb

    Description: "Jews have found ways to adapt ancient laws to modern
    and future ideas, from time travel (across the International
    Dateline, at least) to vampirism (yes, you are permitted to
    swallow some blood). So, nu? How does someone observe a time-based
    commandment when "day" and "night" are artificial concepts. Where
    will a naturally-flowing spring come from for a mikvah on Mars?
    Our panel of mavens will engage in pilpul on halachic and
    non-halachic issues."

    Estimated attendance: 60 people

    Daidoff said that one of his hobbies was collecting
    science-fictional kippot (yarmulkes, skullcaps). Burstein, talking
    about the need for translating terms, "I was trying to find an
    English word for 'minyan'." "Minyan," several audience members
    responded.

    Gelb talked about the difficulties of working on a convention
    while observing Shabbos. "I've trained the staff to answer the
    phone," she said.

    Regarding the question of time-based mitzvoth. Davidoff said that
    there are two possibilities: use Jerusalem time, or calculate
    equivalent times locally. (I would think that using Jerusalem time
    would fail at great enough distances that the question of
    simultaneity would arise.)

    Burstein said that in general there are three standard answers
    when you ask a rabbi a question:
    1) Use Jerusalem time.
    2) No, it's trefe.
    3) Dip it in the mikveh.

    Gelb also recommended a web site for this, then later
    apologized--she had forgotten that it was in Hebrew! (For those
    who can read Hebrew, it was <http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdf/haadamalhayarayach.pdf>.) She said
    that the Chief Rabbi in Jerusalem had in fact ruled that
    time-based mitzvoth cannot be performed on the moon, but this
    seemed to be a minority opinion based on the phrase "your days on
    the earth", which appears in the commandments. As a matter of
    practice, the astronauts follow "home time," which she said for
    the shuttle astronauts is Houston time. Someone later asked about
    Mir with half from Florida and half from Russia, and Gelb said
    that the "home-time" ruling may apply only to individuals or
    groups all of whom come from the same place.

    Burstein said that a further complication was that for mitzvoth
    which refer to "an hour", this is not a sixty-minute hour, but
    one-twelfth of the daylight hours at that time. So what if there
    is no sunrise or sunset? Burstein said that this problem occurs
    north of the Arctic Circle (and near the South Pole), and people
    there go by their home town time if they are there sort-term,
    while for longer periods, they draw a vertical line to the first
    Jewish community directly south (north) of them and use their
    time. (This seems to be the majority opinion).

    Gelb suggested that the new halachic day starts when the sun is
    lowest (or rather, closest to the horizon).

    Burstein said that there are a lot of questions about traveling
    across time zones even on earth. The firs answer is that if you
    are planning at traveling at such a time that you will be
    affecting your perception of fast days or holidays, don't do it if
    you can avoid it. But after that there are many opinions (go by
    your watch, use Jerusalem time, etc.). As Burstein summarized, "We
    can be practical, we can be goofy, and we can be goofily
    practical." The basic rule seems to be, "If you can avoid doing
    it, don't do it."

    (As an example of the goofy part, she said that one is allowed to
    filter water on Shabbos only if you would drink it unfiltered!
    That is because if you would drink only filtered water, you
    consider the filtering as separating things, which is prohibited,
    but if you would drink unfiltered water you don't consider it as
    separating.)

    She raised another question. Because one is not allowed to board a
    vessel on Shabbos, if you land on the moon on Shabbos, can you get
    off the LEM and then get back on?

    Burstein asked about Mars--does one use a Martian day or a 24-hour
    day? (Based on her earlier statement about the definition of hour,
    I would assume one would use a Martian day.) Davidoff said that in
    general one should use the local day. However, since one is
    forbidden from fasting so as to injure oneself, if the day were
    too long, the fasting problem would be self-correcting.

    On the moon, one also certainly has the question how one would
    determine the new moon or the full moon. On Mars, which moon would
    one use? I asked this, and Burstein said this was a question from
    someone who "was really ingrained in halachah or had too much time
    on their hands." The answer would be to use Deimos--Phobos goes
    too fast.

    Burstein said that they have a rabbi "who is sympathetic to
    questions like these," so her husband Michael can get informed
    opinions for his fiction. For example, one could build a mikveh
    (ritual bath) on Mars by melting the polar ice, and could use a twenty-five-hour day.

    Burstein pointed out that a colony (or even a longtime temporary
    settlement) on Mars that did this would get out of sync with Earth
    fairly quickly.

    Someone asked about a seder in space--should you open the door for
    Elijah? Davidoff immediately said, "I've got an answer." First,
    you are forbidden to do anything endangering your health. But you
    could certainly open the outer hatch, wait, then close that and
    open the inner hatch.

    Someone asked about "gravity-based mitzvoth". Burstein thought
    that shaking the lulav might be a problem in space. Davidoff said
    that you could build a sukkah, but Burstein pointed out that you
    are not allowed to fasten the top down, and it would end up
    drifting off.

    Gelb said that it is amazing that the answers to a lot of these
    questions are "This has actually been dealt with." For example,
    there are rulings regarding androgynous creatures (since that
    occurs here), and there is a six-hundred-year-old book that says
    that space creatures cannot be converted.

    Other bits and pieces:

    If you are on a spaceship, you don't have to light Chanukah
    candles because you are alone and no one outside would see them.
    (Someone in the audience asked, "How do you know you're alone?")

    You must hear "Amen" directly for it to count, so you cannot
    assemble a minyan over the radio. (What about ten Jewish men
    standing in a circle on the moon, but in spacesuits so that they
    can only hear each other through radios?)

    Regarding whether one is allowed to teleport using a stable
    wormhole on Shabbos or whether that violates the prohibition on
    traveling more than a certain distance, someone said their rabbi
    told them it was alright because, "You're not traveling; you're
    just going."

    Someone in the audience suggested tat since women don not need to
    observe time-based mitzvoth, the solution is to have only women as
    astronauts. (This is not quite true--they must fast on fast days,
    and observe Shabbos, for example.)

    Gelb closed by saying, "The coolest thing is that people are
    actually thinking about this stuff."

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Notes on MAGNIFICA HUMANITAS by Pope Leo XIV (comments by
    Paul S. R. Chisholm)

    MAGNIFICA HUMANITAS (Magnificent Humanity): ON SAFEGUARDING THE
    HUMAN PERSON IN THE TIME OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE is a statement
    of values. Extreme concentration of wealth is bad. Massive
    unemployment is very bad, and guaranteed income is no substitute
    for meaningful work. People should be treated as human beings with
    inherent dignity, not resources to be managed with maximum
    efficiency. "Just war" rarely is. War waged by human beings is bad
    enough, but at least in theory humans are capable of morality; war
    waged by machines is worse.

    Pope Leo constantly references the "Social Doctrine of the
    Church." This is surprisingly liberal (when sex isn't involved):
    Labor unions are good. Unrestrained capitalism is bad. Wealth and
    income should be distributed justly. Private property is not an
    absolute right. These doctrines constantly inform the values
    supported here.

    The encyclical makes no specific policy recommendations. Some
    people are sad about that.

    "We can embrace the technological progress that alleviates
    suffering and unlocks new possibilities, provided that we do not
    abandon the very essence of our humanity, namely the capacity for
    relationship and love." A YouGov poll found 22% of respondents
    disagreed with that; presumably they're pessimistic about AI in
    general. 61% of respondents agreed with Pope Leo that AI can be
    used for good. The question remains: Will it? [-psrc]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Martial Arts Robot Kicks Child (comments by Evelyn
    C. Leeper)

    Yahoo!News reports:

    "This Clown-Wigged Martial Arts Robot Was Supposed to Entertain--
    Then It Brutally Kicked a Child, Video Goes Viral"

    "When you talk about robots being trained in combat and martial
    arts, people instantly think about the worst possible scenarios,
    such as a robot takeover of the world and a war of the machines.

    "While many believe that such scenarios are too extreme to come
    true, spectators who watched a clown-wigged robot kick a child in
    the chest have already been filled with fear in China, likely
    changing the way they perceive the two-legged mechanical device."

    ...

    [Bobbie Sellers noted that "brutally" implies some emotion on the
    part of the robot. Others have observed that having a barrier
    between a martial arts robot and a group of children might have
    been a good idea.]

    Full story at <https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/ clown-wigged-martial-arts-robot-103002092.html>.

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Astronaut Mark Kelly's Top Three Space Movies

    THE MARTIAN
    INTERSTELLAR
    PROJECT HAIL MARY

    See <https://www.facebook.com/reel/1291344886316267> for his full
    comments, and responses from others.

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE SILVER STALLION (letter of comment by John Hertz)

    In an addition to his comments on THE SILVER STALLION in the
    05/08/26 issue of the MT VOID, John Hertz writes:

    I cited Goodreads as a courtesy to those in Electronicland.

    It isn't Mr. Cabell's fault that for many of us 'the Silver
    Stallion' brings to mind the Lone Ranger." [-jh]

    Evelyn adds:

    Perhaps, but not nearly for as many of us as the finale of
    Gioachino Rossini's "William Tell Overture".

    Or for that matter Pyotr Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture" brings to
    mind Quaker Puffed Wheat and Puffed Rice, although this is less
    well-known than Rossini's work, and may be a generational thing.
    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT Films (letter of
    comment by Gary McGath)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on THE LORD OF THE RINGS and THE
    HOBBIT films in the 06/12/26 issue of the MT VOID, Gary McGath
    writes:

    [Evelyn wrote:] "... there is one really annoying flaw: they made
    Gimli the comic relief. Perhaps my objection will be clearer if I
    say that they made the dwarf the comic relief."

    Agreed. I admit to laughing at the line "Nobody tosses a dwarf,"
    but it was a severe anachronism (if that's the right word for a
    work of fantasy fiction). [-gmg]

    [Evelyn wrote:] "... And it's not just THE LORD OF THE RINGS; in
    THE HOBBIT ..., Jackson also makes the dwarves comic figures. And
    they are *not* comic figures in the books."

    To some extent, some of them are. Certainly there's more humor in
    THE HOBBIT than in THE LORD OF THE RINGS. [-gmg]

    Evelyn responds:

    If we want to talk about anachronisms, what about the potatoes,
    the tobacco, the umbrellas, and the mantelpiece clocks?

    In THE HOBBIT Bilbo is also a comic figure. I think THE HOBBIT,
    aimed at a younger audience (so far as I can judge), is more prone
    to humor, but at least spreads it around a bit. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    An essay by Katy Waldman in the June 10, 2026, issue of The New
    Yorker asks, "Did a Chatbot Write a Prize-Winning Story? Does It
    Matter?" But read closely, the story actually has a different
    complaint: the author doesn't like the stylistic techniques used
    in the story, which she claims are very common in AI-written
    stories. In other words, she is arguing with the judges of the
    Commonwealth Foundation in their choice of this story as being the
    best of its category.

    Jamir Nazir was accused of AI-assisted cheating in his story "The
    Serpent in the Grove" by people not involved in the judging
    because of "his story's synthetic tics, glitchy metaphors, and
    general unreadability."

    The A.I.-detection program Pangram claimed it was one hundred per
    cent A.I.-generated.

    Yashvi Jain fed an excerpt from PRIDE AND PREJUDICE (written by
    the very human Jane Austen in 1813) into three AI detectors.
    ZeroGPT claimed it was 100% AI-generated. Gpt zero claimed it was
    17% AI-generated. Only Copyleaks labeled it as a human text.

    [<https://medium.com/@jyashvi/did-you-know-that-jane-austen-wrote- ride-and-prejudice-using-ai-3ad75c342068>]

    So much for trusting AI detectors.

    As Waldman notes, "Epistemically, there is something a bit wobbly
    about using chatbots to determine whether a piece of prose was
    written by chatbots." And never mind that a Stanford study found
    that "AI-detecting algorithms tend to be biased against non-native
    English speakers." But one professor, Ethan Mollick, insisted,
    "Come on, if you know you know." And Sam Kriss in the Times
    magazine in 2025 claimed a list of "give-a-ways": anaphora,
    epistrophe, zeugma, and negative parallelism, which is "all over
    'The Serpent in the Grove'".

    [I personally love zeugma. Noel Coward used it often (e.g., "She
    broke his heart and his bank," in PRIVATE LIVES, and arguably, the
    title "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"), and I doubt anyone would claim
    his works were AI-written. Well, an AI detector might.]

    Waldman goes on to say, "The story has its share of glaringly
    nonsensical phrases that should have tipped off anyone paying an
    iota of attention--for instance, when Vishnu spies a sexy visitor,
    we learn that the woman 'had the kind of walking that made benches
    become men.'" But most of its failures are subtler, more
    insidious. Sita's survival is a fact 'that felt like a small warm
    animal in her hands'; the problem isn't that a reader can't
    picture a fact being cradled like an animal--it's that the image
    and the thought behind it is maudlin." And she goes on to list
    several more.

    She then compares Nazir's story to "A House for Mr. Biswas" by V.
    S. Naipaul, claiming the latter is much better written. (One
    wonders if anyone has run *it* through an AI-detector.) But her
    complaint is not that one is *AI*-written and one *human*-written;
    it's that she doesn't think Nazir's story is *well*-written.

    She does address this somewhat, saying that the "banalities" in
    Nazir's story "are less offensive than the fact that a group of
    cultural gatekeepers rubber-stamped the story." She writes that
    some blame "the tendency of M.F.A. programs to promote a kind of
    stylistic polish at the expense of substance." Others see a "DEI"
    element in the selection of a story from the Global South.

    And she closes with a variation on authorial intentionalism: "An
    A.I. can't mean what it says, and indeed no human writer can mean
    what an A.I. writes on her behalf--she can agree with it, she can
    aspire to it, she can hide behind it, but she can't mean it. The
    sloptimists are betting that writing devoid of an inner purpose
    can rival the stuff ripped out of an author's chest with a claw
    grapple. Any serious reader knows that it can't."

    Apparently, she doesn't feel that the judges of the Commonwealth
    Foundation prizes are serious readers, or more specifically, that
    their tastes don't match hers. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Evelyn C. Leeper
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com


    The irony for mankind is that a computer program is
    asking humans to prove that they are not a robot.
    --Russ Archer
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Someone Else@someone.else@example.com.invalid to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Jun 21 14:16:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In Message-ID:<1118jh5$oi1n$1@dont-email.me>,
    "Evelyn C. Leeper" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    An essay by Katy Waldman in the June 10, 2026, issue of The New
    Yorker asks, "Did a Chatbot Write a Prize-Winning Story? Does It
    Matter?"

    Notes: I have never used what's currently being called "A.I.", I
    haven't read the essay Evelyn is commenting on, and it's all my
    opinion, even if the phrasing makes it sound like I'm stating facts.

    And Sam Kriss in the Times
    magazine in 2025 claimed a list of "give-a-ways": anaphora,
    epistrophe, zeugma, and negative parallelism, which is "all over
    'The Serpent in the Grove'".

    [I personally love zeugma. Noel Coward used it often

    Have Some Madeira, M'dear

    And she closes with a variation on authorial intentionalism: "An
    A.I. can't mean what it says, and indeed no human writer can mean
    what an A.I. writes on her behalf--she can agree with it, she can
    aspire to it, she can hide behind it, but she can't mean it.

    Waldman is making a common mistake of considering all uses of AI to
    be the same (bad). Certainly, if I prompt "What is love?" what comes
    out will be the kind of slop she's objecting to, and not, as she
    said, my meaning.

    But what if I write an essay on what love means to me? I can then
    send it to a human editor asking for help in phrasing and word
    choices, and then look at the suggestions and decide which to keep,
    which to not, and which give me ideas that are better than what I had originally written or what the editor said. Who would claim that the
    final essay isn't my meaning? (If YOU would, please explain it to
    me.)

    Let's try again with an AI editor, with the same essay and the same
    post-editor re-editing. Waldman's over-broad statement suggests that
    this is now no longer "my meaning". I disagree.

    Does using a scroll saw instead of a coping saw automatically make
    the wood's shape less artistic? Ice sculptors often use chain saws.
    The tool is not the artisan, and AI is just a tool. It can be used
    subtly and well. Or it can be used like a chain saw to carve a fine
    headboard, with predictably bad results.

    See how professional writers do a better job of explaining this than
    I do: https://www.techdirt.com/2026/02/10/how-to-think-about-ai-is-it-the-tool-or-are-you/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2