From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

THE MT VOID
06/12/26 -- Vol. 44, No. 50, Whole Number 2436

Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
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Topics:
Mini Reviews, Part 18 (THE GOODBYE GIRL (2004),
HANUKKAH ON THE ROCKS, THE LORD OF THE
RINGS (2001, 2002, 2003)) (film reviews
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
The Pope and Gandalf (report from File 770)
The Intelligence of Bees (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
THE ALIEN AUTOPSY SCANDAL (film pointer
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
A Starbucks Marketing Stunt Gone Horribly Awry (comment
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
THE INCANDESCENT by Emily Tesh (audio book review
by Joe Karpierz)
This Week's Reading (YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN )
(book and film comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: Mini Reviews, Part 18 (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)

THE GOODBYE GIRL (2004): This is a remake of the 1977 film with
Richard Dreyfus and Marsha Mason. Patricia Heaton is no Marsha
Mason and Jeff Daniels is certainly no Richard Dreyfus. Hallie
Eisenberg is pretty good, and the director of the internal play
"Richard III" is clearly supposed to be over the top so Alan
Cumming is no worse than Paul Benedict.

What about the idea that Elliot is an actor in 2004--who claims to
have many gay friends--who first doesn't know how to play a gay
character, and then plays him so a total stereotype? If Paula is
flat broke, why is she throwing out a giant plate of spaghetti
instead of saving it as leftovers? That's just sloppy directing.

And in 2004 there is no way that Elliot could be told he has a
two-hour flight delay and thought he had time to change a
first-class ticket for two economy-class tickets, take a taxi from
*any* airport in New York to Bleecker Street, wait for Paula to
pack, take the cab back to the airport and still get through
security in time to make the plane. The only airport even close to
possible would have been LaGuardia, which required at least an
hour for the driving alone.

But my question is, why remake the 1977 film at all?


HANUKKAH ON THE ROCKS (2024): I don't normally watch Hallmark
Channel movies, but I was curious what they would do with a
Hanukkah movie. (Why my library bought it in the spring is not
clear to me, unless it's that it took several months from its
release to make it to the shelf.)

And now I know why I don't normally watch Hallmark Channel movies:
I'm pre-diabetic and can't take that much sugar. There is no real
conflict: no question of will everyone follow their dreams, but
when they will figure that out; not whether the obvious couples
will get together, but when.


THE LORD OF THE RINGS (2001, 2002, 2003): I love the movies,
they're a great achievement, but there is one really annoying
flaw: they made Gimli the comic relief. Perhaps my objection will
be clearer if I say that they made the dwarf the comic relief. I a
reminded of LIVING IN OBLIVION, a film about low-budget filmmaking
in which Peter Dinklage (in his film debut) plays an actor who is
in a surreal dream sequence, and suddenly breaks out and complains
about how having a dwarf in a dream sequence is such a cliche in
films.

And it's not just THE LORD OF THE RINGS; in THE HOBBIT (2012,
2013, 2014), Jackson also makes the dwarves comic figures. And
they are *not* comic figures in the books.

There is another weirdness with height. Merry and Pippin drink the
ent draught and grow taller, in fact competing with each other to
see who is taller. We see this in a scene later in the film when
one of them surreptitiously compares their heights. Yet in the
scene of the four hobbits at the end at Aragorn's coronation, they
are all basically the same height. People on the Internet say that
this is because the scene with the ent draught is in only the
extended version, so when they filmed the coronation there wasn't
a height issue. But this sees to assume that the scenes in the
extended version were filmed after the rest was done, when it is
almost certain that they were filmed in the normal course and when
all the filing was done, then they cut some scenes out. It is
highly unlikely that they reshot the coronation because they
removed the ent draught, and if they had, why wouldn't they use
the originally shot coronation scene which supposedly had Marry
and Pippin taller than Frodo and Sam?

And of course, Jackson cast people of average height for the
hobbits and dwarves and used special effects (or doubles, when the
faces weren't seen), rather than casting actual dwarfs.
Admittedly, the number of dwarfs Peter Jackson would have needed
for all the dwarf and hobbit roles--even with the CGI--might have
been a problem. Yet he managed to use special effects to have
taller actors appear shorter in large parts of the films, so he
could have cast some of the characters more accurately.


[-ecl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: The Pope and Gandalf (report from File 770)

File 770 (05/25/26) reports:

(1) THE POPE SHARES THE WISDOM OF GANDALF. Pope Leo XIV quoted
Tolkien in his latest papal encyclical, "On Safeguarding The Human
Person In The Time Of Artificial Intelligence"--"Encyclical Letter
of His Holiness Leo XIV Magnifica Humanitas (15 May 2026)":

"213. The twentieth-century Catholic author J.R.R. Tolkien, in the
words of a protagonist in one of his novels, described our
responsibility in this way: "It is not our part to master all the
tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of
those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields
that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to
till." [187] The civilization of love will not arise from a single
or spectacular gesture, but from the sum total of small and
steadfast acts of fidelity that serve as a bulwark against
dehumanization. For this reason, it is worthwhile pausing to
reflect on some aspects of how we, each in our own way, can
cooperate in building the civilization of love. Without presuming
to exhaust this theme, I would like to propose five paths toward
daily and public responsibility: the need to disarm words,
building peace through justice, adopting the perspective of
victims, cultivating a healthy realism and reviving dialogue and multilateralism."

Gandalf's statement is from the third book of the trilogy. Stephen
C. Winter tells us: "The hearers are the lords of the allies
gathered at the gates of Minas Tirith. Denethor and Theoden are
dead and Faramir is recovering from his wounds in the Houses of
Healing so it is Aragorn, Imrahil of Dol Amroth, Eomer and Elladan
and Elrohir, the sons of Elrond who listen to what Gandalf is
saying." [-File 770]

===================================================================

TOPIC: The Intelligence of Bees (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

In the MT VOID's continuing quest to print stories about animals,
we have this from The Guardian:

Insects join list of species capable of solving simple
rCybox-and-bananarCO problem that demonstrates basic intelligence

Bumblebees can use tools to solve a problem, according to
experiments that demonstrate their remarkably advanced cognitive
abilities.

The bees were given an adapted version of an experiment that, 100
years ago, first demonstrated chimpanzees could work out how to
retrieve an out-of-reach banana by stacking boxes. Since then,
various other primates, elephants and crows have joined an elite
cohort of species known to be capable of this level of insight and
spontaneous problem solving.

In the latest research, bees were shown to be able to roll a
polystyrene ball to a specific location and climb on to it in
order to access an artificial flower on a low ceiling. The
findings challenge the longstanding assumption that insects
operate purely on instinct and mindless trial-and-error learning.

Full story at:

<https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jun/04/ bees-use-tools-to-solve-problems-study-finds>

(This sort of story is one reason I read The Guardian--they cover
this sort of science better than other "mainstream" news sources.
[-ecl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: THE ALIEN AUTOPSY SCANDAL (film pointer by Evelyn C. Leeper)

[This has already run on "Sky Documentaries" but will probably
eventually be available elsewhere as well.]

Those of us who remember the 1995 film that purported to be an
actual alien autopsy from Roswell, New Mexico, may want to watch
THE ALIEN AUTOPSY SCANDAL, the story of how Ray Santilli and Gary
Shoefield used a sculptor who had worked on "Doctor Who", a
butcher to supply suitable-looking animal parts, and a magician to
create a film that certainly convinced a lot of people at the time.

Full story by Rhik Samadder at:

<https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/jun/06/ all-good-the-alien-autopsy-scandal-sky-documentaries>

===================================================================

TOPIC: A Starbucks Marketing Stunt Gone Horribly Awry (comment by
Evelyn C. Leeper)

I will summarize from The Guardian:

Starbucks launched a marketing campaign on May 18 called "Tank
Day" for its new, bigger coffee mugs.

In South Korea, May 18 is the anniversary of a 1980 massacre in
Gwangju. According to The Guardian, "Over 10 violent days,
paratroopers crushed pro-democracy protests against military
strongman Chun Doo-hwan. VictimsrCO groups say hundreds were killed."

Even worse, "There was also a problem with a slogan the Starbuck
campaign used: 'thwack on the desk'. It echoed a notorious cover
story used by police after the 1987 torture death of student
activist Park Jong-chul. Authorities at the time initially claimed
Park died because an officer had used his fist to 'hit the desk
with a thwack'."

And why am I reporting this in the MT VOID?

"Marketers chose the slogan after consulting an AI tool, looking
for suggestions, Shinsegae Group said. It turned out some managers
who approved the campaign never opened the email attachments
showing the marketing material."

The Guardian summarizes, "It was a PR nightmare: customers
smashing Starbucks branded tumblers and mugs as fans deleted
loyalty apps and cashed out prepaid balances. Amid the uproar,
government ministries cut ties with the coffee chain and apology
notices were pasted on Starbucks stores across South Korea."

Starbucks cancelled the campaign the same day, and fired the CEO,
Son Jeong-hyun. But the fallout continues. [-ecl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: THE INCANDESCENT by Emily Tesh (copyright 2025, Tor Books,
432 pages, ISBN-10: 1250835011, ISBN-13: 978-1250835017; Macmillan
Audio, 12 hours and 26 minutes, ASIN: B0DFQMHG92, narrated by Zara
Ramm) (audio book review by Joe Karpierz)

Not all that long ago, I'd never heard of the term "dark
academia". Whether that's because the term is new or I was just
not paying attention is neither here nor there. From the term
itself, it's not all that difficult to figure out what it is. Or,
at the very least, I can point at something and say "that's dark
academia" without actually having a rigorous definition to support
my assertion. Another term that is relatively new--well, it's been
around at least a year now, if not longer--is romantasy. That
one's even easier to figure out. But what if a book contains both
romance and fantasy but is not really romantasy, and oh by the way
it's dark academia?

That book would be Emily Tesh's THE INCANDESCENT.

Chetwood School is a 600+ year-old British boarding school that
teaches magic alongside traditional "A level" subjects. Not as
long as the 1000+ years Hogwarts of Harry Potter fame has been
around, and not founded by four famous wizards, but it is one of
the better magic schools in Britain and 600 years is a long time.
Our central character is Director of Magic
Sapphire--Saffy--Walden. Walden spends her days being an
administrator of the school, teaching classes, and protecting the
students from all sorts of demons that lurk around every corner of
Chetwood. Walden is a driven individual, to the point where she
has nearly no social life. She had a partner while she was living
in America, but that relationship ended--awkwardly--when it was
clear that the two women were headed in separate directions. So
Walden spends her days keeping herself busy so she doesn't have
time to even think about her life. The school, its students and
teachers, and magic are enough for her--until those darn kids do
something stupid.

That "something" is summoning a high level demon that has been
lurking around the school for centuries and trying to get past the
magical wards that are everywhere designed to keep demons out.
Now, to be honest, there are demons, and there are demons. There
are demons that inhabit the clock on Walden's wall and the faculty printer--imps--to monster demons from hell that are out to take
over the school and kill everyone in sight. That last type is the
one that the kids summoned, named Old Faithful. Walden rushes in
to try to save the school and the kids, and as good as she is,
she's severely outclassed and outmatched. In to save the day,
although not easily, is head Marshall Laura Kenning. Walden is
both impressed by Kenning's magical abilities and dazzled by her
beauty. Eventually, they begin a relationship that fizzles, in
part because of the Phoenix demon that Walden has contained in a
tattoo on her arm.

Eventually, Kenning is forced to leave the school as someone had
to take the fall for Old Faithful's demonic incursion. An outsider
is brought in to evaluate the school's protections against demons
and the ways in which its students are safeguarded against the
constant danger that surrounds them. Mark--the outsider--is
basically a jerk, at least to start. Walden eventually warms up to
him, as he is quite good at what he does, and well, one thing
leads to another. This is where we learn that Walden is bisexual.
But more on that in a minute. The novel turns into something of a
detective story, as Walden not only realizes that more and more
demons are making it past the school's defenses, but it's Mark
that is the cause of all the incursions.

When once a decade or so a brilliant book comes along and takes
your breath and soul away, the reader can expect the next one to
be terrific because if the author can do it once, they can do it
again. Or, as is more likely the next book is a letdown, a
disappointment. Is this because the brilliant book (SOME DESPERATE
GLORY) was so good that nothing could compare, or the follow up
(THE INCANDESCENT) is not that good of a novel? I think THE
INCANDESCENT has its flaws, to be sure. Walden seems to make bad
choices throughout the book, including who she picks as lovers.
The book is presented as a sapphic romance, but that particular
relationship does not last very long nor is it explored very much.
And while there is sapphic romance, there is the other situation
with Mark. Not a romance, per se, but a physical relationship of
convenience, which is okay, but you wonder why she fell into bed
with him when she knew that he was no good, and eventually *up* to
no good. The Phoenix tattoo and the power it represents is not
fully fleshed out either. Sure, it was a research project, but who
thought it would be a good idea to allow that piece of magic to
happen needed to be explored more deeply. I suppose including all
the bits and pieces that I wanted to read about might turn it into
a doorstop novel, and in general I'm done with those.

I honestly don't think the book is as bad as I'm making it out to
be. It was an enjoyable and fun read, but by no means was it
riveting. I never once thought I was wasting my time reading it. I
just wish it were better than it is. After SOME DESPERATE
GLORY--which I told several people they should just give the Hugo
to because no novel could top it that year--I was expecting more.
I was disappointed. [-jak]

===================================================================

TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

Our book/movie group selected YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, with the
selection of book left to each member. The obvious choice was
FRANKENSTEIN by Mary Shelley, but since many of us had already
read that. the other option given was THE MAKING OF YOUNG
FRANKENSTEIN by Mel Brooks. I read that (although it was mostly
photos), but also read the novelization, YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN by
Gilbert Pearlman.

Of the novelization, I will say that it has the same problem that
the novelization of DARK STAR had: it is futile to try to convey
in words a film that is based in large part on visual gags,
slapstick, and facial expressions. Pearlman apparently realized
(or discovered) this, so he omits several humorous bits (e.g., the
patient being told to hop down off the gurney, and after he
clambers down with difficulty, Dr. Frankenstein says, "Nice
hopping"). Then he needs to fill in the pages with scenes not in
the film, such as an introductory scene of the lawyer reading the
will to other members of the Frankenstein family before he brings
it to Frederick).

I suppose one can argue that the book should be taken on its own.
But the underlying story is not that great without the visual
references and the atmosphere of the film.

As for the visual references, one of the villagers mentions that
the monster had previously appeared five times. Those would be in
the films FRANKENSTEIN, BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, SON OF
FRANKENSTEIN, GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN, and FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE
WOLF MAN. (Brooks apparently doesn't recognize HOUSE OF DRACULA
and HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN, or ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET
FRANKENSTEIN.)

Obviously the creation scene is from FRANKENSTEIN, down to the use
of the original lab equipment from that film. It also uses the
monster's fear of fire. From BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN is the classic
blind hermit sequence. The official with the wooden arm is from
SON OF FRANKENSTEIN. The scene of the monster being carried, arms
outstretched, as if he is crucified, copies an identical scene
from GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN. And the transference scene copies the
same scene from FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLF MAN.

[I was in a quandary as to whether to put this in film reviews or
book comments. I decided based on the fact that currently I have
more film columns backlogged than book columns.]

[-ecl]

===================================================================

Evelyn C. Leeper
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com


Trump making half naked sweaty men fight on his front
lawn is a great way to celebrate Pride Month. Hats off
to him.
--Glenn Epstein
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/14/26 8:58 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE LORD OF THE RINGS (2001, 2002, 2003): I love the movies,
they're a great achievement, but there is one really annoying
flaw: they made Gimli the comic relief. Perhaps my objection will
be clearer if I say that they made the dwarf the comic relief.

Agreed. I admit to laughing at the line "Nobody tosses a dwarf," but it
was a severe anachronism (if that's the right word for a work of fantasy fiction).

And it's not just THE LORD OF THE RINGS; in THE HOBBIT (2012,
2013, 2014), Jackson also makes the dwarves comic figures. And
they are *not* comic figures in the books.

To some extent, some of them are. Certainly there's more humor in _The
Hobbit_ than in _Lord of the Rings_.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/14/26 10:43, Gary McGath wrote:

On 6/14/26 8:58 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE LORD OF THE RINGS (2001, 2002, 2003): I love the movies,
they're a great achievement, but there is one really annoying
flaw: they made Gimli the comic relief. Perhaps my objection will
be clearer if I say that they made the dwarf the comic relief.

Agreed. I admit to laughing at the line "Nobody tosses a dwarf," but it
was a severe anachronism (if that's the right word for a work of fantasy fiction).

Well, if we want to talk about anachronisms, what about the potatoes,
the tobacco, the umbrellas, and the mantelpiece clocks?

And it's not just THE LORD OF THE RINGS; in THE HOBBIT (2012,
2013, 2014), Jackson also makes the dwarves comic figures. And
they are *not* comic figures in the books.

To some extent, some of them are. Certainly there's more humor in _The Hobbit_ than in _Lord of the Rings_.

Well, Bilbo is also a comic figure. I think THE HOBBIT, aimed at a
younger audience (so far as I can judge) is more prone to humor, but at
least spreads it around a bit.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

THE LORD OF THE RINGS (2001, 2002, 2003): I love the movies,
they're a great achievement, but there is one really annoying flaw:
they made Gimli the comic relief. Perhaps my objection will be
clearer if I say that they made the dwarf the comic relief.

Agreed. I admit to laughing at the line "Nobody tosses a dwarf,"
but it was a severe anachronism (if that's the right word for a work
of fantasy fiction).

Maybe he just wanted to be a Gimli glider. Like that plane that ran
out of fuel 40,000 feet over Canada in 1983.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110mvnl$end$1@reader1.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

Maybe he just wanted to be a Gimli glider. Like that plane that ran
out of fuel 40,000 feet over Canada in 1983.

No, the problem was that Canada had gone metric, so it was 12,192 metres.

There was a made-for-TV film about the incident. I found it a bit
hit-or-miss.

Incidentally, you do know that dwarf-tossing events were a thing for a
while?
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/15/26 5:36 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

Incidentally, you do know that dwarf-tossing events were a thing for a
while?

That was the joke in Gimli's line, wasn't it?
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <memo.20260615103626.2080A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:

In article <110mvnl$end$1@reader1.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. >Lynch) wrote:

Maybe he just wanted to be a Gimli glider. Like that plane that ran
out of fuel 40,000 feet over Canada in 1983.

No, the problem was that Canada had gone metric, so it was 12,192 metres.

There was a made-for-TV film about the incident. I found it a bit >hit-or-miss.

A weird thing about the Gilmi glider: when the plane landed, there were
three kids on bikes--Cam Berglind, Kerry Seabrook, and Art Zuke--who
were surprised to find a plane bearing down on them. None were hurt.

Years later, Seabrook had it happen to him again: A Cesna made an
emergency landing behind him on a road.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110oll5$9veq$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

On 6/15/26 5:36 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

Incidentally, you do know that dwarf-tossing events were a thing
for a
while?

That was the joke in Gimli's line, wasn't it?

Yes, but I didn't know whether the concept had travelled to other lands.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/15/26 11:17, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110oll5$9veq$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

On 6/15/26 5:36 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

Incidentally, you do know that dwarf-tossing events were a thing
for a
while?

That was the joke in Gimli's line, wasn't it?

Yes, but I didn't know whether the concept had travelled to other lands.

The reports of it, yes, if not the events themselves.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:

kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

Maybe he just wanted to be a Gimli glider. Like that plane that
ran out of fuel 40,000 feet over Canada in 1983.

No, the problem was that Canada had gone metric, so it was 12,192 metres.

It was indeed due to a botched metric conversion, but it involved
pounds versus kilograms, not meters versus feet.

A weird thing about the Gilmi glider: when the plane landed, there
were three kids on bikes--Cam Berglind, Kerry Seabrook, and Art
Zuke--who were surprised to find a plane bearing down on them.
None were hurt.

Years later, Seabrook had it happen to him again: A Cesna made an
emergency landing behind him on a road.

Interesting. I hadn't known that. What I did know was that they
didn't know there were drag racers on the runway. But that it turned
out to be a good thing that there were. It was a rough landing, which
started a small fire. So one of the racers immediatetly ran up with a
fire extinguisher and put it out. What are the odds?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110q5q0$ar6$1@reader1.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

It was indeed due to a botched metric conversion, but it involved
pounds versus kilograms, not meters versus feet.

I knew that. British irony.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/16/26 5:59 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110q5q0$ar6$1@reader1.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

It was indeed due to a botched metric conversion, but it involved
pounds versus kilograms, not meters versus feet.

I knew that. British irony.

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110rdr8$9veq$2@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.

I recall one of the Philip Jose Farmer Riverworld books has distances
like that. Don't know if he was being ironic or just didn't understand.
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garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.

But "Terror at 5 1/2 Feet" -- the Simpsons spoof of that Shatner
episode -- was good.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/16/26 11:23, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110rdr8$9veq$2@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.

I recall one of the Philip Jose Farmer Riverworld books has distances
like that. Don't know if he was being ironic or just didn't understand.

When I was making the LoneStarCon 2 chili recipe, it called for baker's chocolate and sugar. When I looked into converting it to use semi-sweet chocolate chips, it turned out that the proportions in the recipe
between baker's chocolate and sugar were precisely those in the chips.
My guess is that it was originally converted *from* the chips.

Different kind of conversion, but in some ways similar.

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters" implies a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet". For purposes of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be perfectly acceptable.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110s3ni$18vup$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/16/26 11:23, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110rdr8$9veq$2@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
wrote:

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.

I recall one of the Philip Jose Farmer Riverworld books has distances
like that. Don't know if he was being ironic or just didn't understand.

When I was making the LoneStarCon 2 chili recipe, it called for baker's >chocolate and sugar. When I looked into converting it to use semi-sweet >chocolate chips, it turned out that the proportions in the recipe
between baker's chocolate and sugar were precisely those in the chips.
My guess is that it was originally converted *from* the chips.

Different kind of conversion, but in some ways similar.

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't understand >precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters" implies a level of >precision greater than saying "20,000 feet". For purposes of the show, >"Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be perfectly acceptable.

[Hal Heydt]
That difference between accuracy and precision is one my pet
peeves. I blame it on the spreqad of hand held calculators.

The two items I've encounterd in that vein, over the years, are
(1) an article about the arrival of a VIP in South Korea that
said the press and spectators were kept back "at least 331 feet"
(obviously the original dispatch said "100 meters"). Using "100
yards" would have been much better. The other was a small indoor
swimming pool in a hotel foyer. Around the edges were the usual
depth markings at 6 inch intervals. Next to each one was an
"equivalent" in metric, giving the depth in centimeters to two
decimal places. How you can measure the depth of a swimming pool
to within 0.1 millimeter, I don't know.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't
understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters"
implies a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet".
For purposes of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be
perfectly acceptable.

Another issue is that in most aviation contexts, "20,000 feet" doesn't
mean that distance above mean sea level. It means the level where the
air pressure is equal to what it usually is at 20,000 feet, as that's
much easier to measure. And, for the purposes of preventing
collisions, just as useful.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't
understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters"
implies a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet".
For purposes of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be
perfectly acceptable.

Another issue is that in most aviation contexts, "20,000 feet" doesn't
mean that distance above mean sea level. It means the level where the
air pressure is equal to what it usually is at 20,000 feet, as that's
much easier to measure. And, for the purposes of preventing
collisions, just as useful.

Yeah, for flying above the "transition altitude" (which varies)
airplanes set their altimeters to QNE (1013.25 hPa or 29.92) - the
result is as you note - height separation works and no one really
cares if it matches the "real" MSL.

But note the qualification - what about below the transition altitude?
Well, it depends, there's at least two systems in use.


AFAIK almost? all countries uses QNH which relies on ATC providing the
pilots with the correct barometric pressure at the airport, the pilots
enter this in their flight systems and then all instruments shown the
"real" MSL altitude because that's what the take-off, approach &
landing charts and instructions uses...

Then there's QFE where the pilots instead get told the settings to
make the instruments report "height above airport" meaning it'll read
0 on the ground. Which sounds attractive but is a receipt for chaos
any time you have multiple airports at different altitudes near each
other....

Russia used to use QFE but some say they've too have switched to QNH,
not sure if there's any remaining QFE countries. It's apparently still
used in some specialized fields like Aerobatics and historically some
airlines used both QFE and QNH. I suspect the dual-use is gone - it
sounds like a catastrophe searching for a place to happen.


For extra FUN - China and a few other countries uses metric flight
levels... No, Europe isn't doing that.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <110s3ni$18vup$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't
understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters" implies
a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet". For purposes
of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be perfectly
acceptable.

Although length measurements translate well, volume and mass don't. I
remember a friend who found "A pint's a pound/the world around" hilarious because in the UK we were taught "A pint of pure water/weighs a pound and
a quarter" so that the world around means only the US. Also, an Imperial
ton is 2240 pounds, whereas the US uses 2000 pounds. An Imperial ton is
almost exactly a metric tonne.

We were taught, and I still remember after nearly seventy years:

1 pound = 16 ounce
14 pounds = 1 stone
2 stones = 1 quarter
4 quarters = 1 hundredweight
20 hundredweight = 1 ton

You used to get coal delivered in hundredweight sacks.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <tGqq9w.Jo5@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

That difference between accuracy and precision is one my pet
peeves. I blame it on the spreqad of hand held calculators.

I remember hearing of a news item about a US starlet arriving in the UK:

"She said she felt like a million dollars (u416,700)"
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/17/26 12:17, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110s3ni$18vup$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't
understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters" implies
a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet". For purposes
of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be perfectly
acceptable.

Although length measurements translate well, volume and mass don't. I remember a friend who found "A pint's a pound/the world around" hilarious because in the UK we were taught "A pint of pure water/weighs a pound and
a quarter" so that the world around means only the US. Also, an Imperial
ton is 2240 pounds, whereas the US uses 2000 pounds. An Imperial ton is almost exactly a metric tonne.

"A pint's a pound the world around" is also hilarious because these days
a pint is more like -u5.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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On 6/17/2026 9:17 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

1 pound = 16 ounce

Except when it's 12 -troy- ounces.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
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On 6/17/26 12:17 PM, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110s3ni$18vup$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

Regarding English/metric conversions, people apparently don't
understand precision, in the sense that saying "6,096 meters" implies
a level of precision greater than saying "20,000 feet". For purposes
of the show, "Nightmare at 6000 Meters" would be perfectly
acceptable.

Although length measurements translate well, volume and mass don't. I remember a friend who found "A pint's a pound/the world around" hilarious because in the UK we were taught "A pint of pure water/weighs a pound and
a quarter" so that the world around means only the US. Also, an Imperial
ton is 2240 pounds, whereas the US uses 2000 pounds. An Imperial ton is almost exactly a metric tonne.

That brings us back again to the LOTR movie. I didn't fully understand
why Merry and Pippin were so excited about being able to get a pint of
beer in Bree until I learned that a UK pint (which I'm assuming
Middle-Earth uses) is about 20% bigger than a US pint. It's 20 fluid
ounces vs. 16 fluid ounces, but fluid ounces are also different in the
two countries.

Or maybe it's a New Zealand pint, for which there's no generally
accepted definition.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
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In article <memo.20260617171708.28184A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:

Although length measurements translate well, volume and mass don't. I >remember a friend who found "A pint's a pound/the world around" hilarious >because in the UK we were taught "A pint of pure water/weighs a pound and
a quarter" so that the world around means only the US. Also, an Imperial
ton is 2240 pounds, whereas the US uses 2000 pounds. An Imperial ton is >almost exactly a metric tonne.

[Hal Heydt]
2000 pounds is a short ton. A long ton is 2200 pounds, which is
even closer to a metric tonne (2208 pounds). And none of them
should be confused with a deadweight ton, which is 35 cubic feet.
(And, no, that's not a mistake in units.)
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:

[Hal Heydt]
2000 pounds is a short ton. A long ton is 2200 pounds, which is
even closer to a metric tonne (2208 pounds). And none of them
should be confused with a deadweight ton, which is 35 cubic feet.
(And, no, that's not a mistake in units.)

Or with an assay ton, which is even further away from anything that
sounds remotely sane.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
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Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> wrote:

Yeah, for flying above the "transition altitude" (which varies)
airplanes set their altimeters to QNE (1013.25 hPa or 29.92) - the
result is as you note - height separation works and no one really
cares if it matches the "real" MSL.

But note the qualification - what about below the transition altitude?
Well, it depends, there's at least two systems in use.

AFAIK almost? all countries uses QNH which relies on ATC providing the
pilots with the correct barometric pressure at the airport, ...

A friend of mine is both a radio ham and a retired airline pilot.
Until I told him, he never realized that the aviation Q codes and the
ham Q codes are parts of the same large system. Or that this system
is linked to the fact that nowhere in the world do radio call signs,
airline registrations, or airport codes begin with Q.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:

That brings us back again to the LOTR movie. I didn't fully understand
why Merry and Pippin were so excited about being able to get a pint of
beer in Bree until I learned that a UK pint (which I'm assuming
Middle-Earth uses) is about 20% bigger than a US pint. It's 20 fluid
ounces vs. 16 fluid ounces, but fluid ounces are also different in the
two countries.

In 1984, an old man in a bar complains bitterly about metrification,
because a pint is just the right amount of beer, whereas a litre is too
much and a half-litre isn't enough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

A friend of mine is both a radio ham and a retired airline pilot.
Until I told him, he never realized that the aviation Q codes and the
ham Q codes are parts of the same large system. Or that this system
is linked to the fact that nowhere in the world do radio call signs,
airline registrations, or airport codes begin with Q.

There are a bunch of Marine-specific Q-codes as well, which are all
enumerated in the ITU manuals.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> wrote:

Russia used to use QFE but some say they've too have switched to QNH,
not sure if there's any remaining QFE countries. It's apparently still
used in some specialized fields like Aerobatics and historically some >airlines used both QFE and QNH. I suspect the dual-use is gone - it
sounds like a catastrophe searching for a place to happen.

At least as late as the eighties, Cuba used QFE and so did some other
countries in the Caribbean but most used QNH and of course you'd get
handed off from one to the other constantly.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:

That brings us back again to the LOTR movie. I didn't fully understand
why Merry and Pippin were so excited about being able to get a pint of >beer in Bree until I learned that a UK pint (which I'm assuming >Middle-Earth uses) is about 20% bigger than a US pint. It's 20 fluid >ounces vs. 16 fluid ounces, but fluid ounces are also different in the
two countries.

In 1984, an old man in a bar complains bitterly about metrification,
because a pint is just the right amount of beer, whereas a litre is too
much and a half-litre isn't enough.
--scott

In some (UK) pubs you get served 500ml in a pint glass anyway; the rest is company profit.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 17/06/2026 01:23, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <110rdr8$9veq$2@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:

"Nightmare at 6,096 Meters" would be a lousy title.

I recall one of the Philip Jose Farmer Riverworld books has distances
like that. Don't know if he was being ironic or just didn't understand.

I recall it being said that the "translation" was done by an overly enthusiastic subbie editing the manuscript for UK/Commonwealth
publication, not PJF.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
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Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:

That brings us back again to the LOTR movie. I didn't fully understand
why Merry and Pippin were so excited about being able to get a pint of
beer in Bree until I learned that a UK pint (which I'm assuming
Middle-Earth uses) is about 20% bigger than a US pint. It's 20 fluid
ounces vs. 16 fluid ounces, but fluid ounces are also different in the
two countries.

In 1984, an old man in a bar complains bitterly about metrification,
because a pint is just the right amount of beer, whereas a litre is too
much and a half-litre isn't enough.

In some (UK) pubs you get served 500ml in a pint glass anyway; the rest is >company profit.

It's true. And sometimes what you get served is something synthetic that
bears no resemblance to good bitters. Perhaps we are living in the world
of 1984 already.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/18/26 10:00, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:

That brings us back again to the LOTR movie. I didn't fully understand >>>> why Merry and Pippin were so excited about being able to get a pint of >>>> beer in Bree until I learned that a UK pint (which I'm assuming
Middle-Earth uses) is about 20% bigger than a US pint. It's 20 fluid
ounces vs. 16 fluid ounces, but fluid ounces are also different in the >>>> two countries.

In 1984, an old man in a bar complains bitterly about metrification,
because a pint is just the right amount of beer, whereas a litre is too
much and a half-litre isn't enough.

In some (UK) pubs you get served 500ml in a pint glass anyway; the rest is >> company profit.

It's true. And sometimes what you get served is something synthetic that bears no resemblance to good bitters. Perhaps we are living in the world
of 1984 already.
--scott

Presumably when the Tartan Army drank several bars dry, that meant they
drank certain brands dry. I doubt they finished off all the Bud Light et
al. :-)

In specific, the Sam Adams Boston Taproom ran out of Sam Adams Boston
Lager, and The Haven ran low in spite of shipping in 100 extra kegs of Tennent's lager.

Actually, I see that News Nation reports: rCLThere was no beer,rCY Scottish fan Dave Orr told NBC Boston. rCLThe Scottish fans just drank the place
dry, and all they had was Bud Light.rCY [<https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/sports/world-cup/scottish-world-cup-drinking-boston/>]
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

begin fnord
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

[Hal Heydt]
And none of them should be confused with a deadweight ton, which is 35
cubic feet. (And, no, that's not a mistake in units.)

And the displacement ton is (if I recall) about 13.5 cubic meters.
--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
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In article <110umj9$21n24$1@dont-email.me>, tppm@ca.rr.com (Tim Merrigan) wrote:

On 6/17/2026 9:17 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

1 pound = 16 ounce

Except when it's 12 -troy- ounces.

Indeed. I recall school exercise books back in the sixties had troy
ounces in the tables at the back.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <cb0dgm-c9m.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
grschmidt@acm.org (Gary R. Schmidt) wrote:

I recall it being said that the "translation" was done by an overly enthusiastic subbie editing the manuscript for UK/Commonwealth
publication, not PJF.

That I hadn't heard. Of course Imperial measurements are still the norm
on road signs in the UK.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <1111023$2kk6b$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

Presumably when the Tartan Army drank several bars dry, that meant
they drank certain brands dry. I doubt they finished off all the Bud
Light et al. :-)

I remember a US Worldcon where I bought a pizza at a concession in the convention centre and was carded when I bought a beer. Not only had I
recently turned 60, it was a Budweiser, almost considered a soft drink by
UK standards.

I worked Green Room at the 1990 Worldcon in the Netherlands. At the
briefing we were told soft drinks were in the fridge, order spirits from
the bar.

"What about beer?" someone asked.

"I said, soft drinks in the fridge."
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/18/2026 12:17 PM, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <cb0dgm-c9m.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
grschmidt@acm.org (Gary R. Schmidt) wrote:

I recall it being said that the "translation" was done by an overly
enthusiastic subbie editing the manuscript for UK/Commonwealth
publication, not PJF.

That I hadn't heard. Of course Imperial measurements are still the norm
on road signs in the UK.

I can't remember which Riverworld book this occurred in, but the first
book(s?) had nice round numbers, and it was a surprise to suddenly
have weird numbers pop up in the new book. Took me a few seconds to
realize what had happened.

pt
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On 6/18/26 12:17, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <1111023$2kk6b$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

Presumably when the Tartan Army drank several bars dry, that meant
they drank certain brands dry. I doubt they finished off all the Bud
Light et al. :-)

I remember a US Worldcon where I bought a pizza at a concession in the convention centre and was carded when I bought a beer. Not only had I recently turned 60, it was a Budweiser, almost considered a soft drink by
UK standards.

I was carded in Kansas City when I was there for a business
conference--at lunch, with several co-workers (who were not carded), in
an Italian restaurant, for a glass of wine. I was over forty at the time.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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In article <11117sr$2nci4$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

I was carded in Kansas City when I was there for a business
conference--at lunch, with several co-workers (who were not carded),
in an Italian restaurant, for a glass of wine. I was over forty at
the time.

It might have been the last Kansas City Worldcon where this happened.

I've been amused recently by a whole load of YouTube videos of US folk responding to posts about celebrating an 18th birthday with a beer by
saying that's illegal.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/18/26 13:05, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <11117sr$2nci4$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

I was carded in Kansas City when I was there for a business
conference--at lunch, with several co-workers (who were not carded),
in an Italian restaurant, for a glass of wine. I was over forty at
the time.

It might have been the last Kansas City Worldcon where this happened.

I've been amused recently by a whole load of YouTube videos of US folk responding to posts about celebrating an 18th birthday with a beer by
saying that's illegal.

No, it was definitely a business trip, and Mark wasn't there. (Also, I
didn't go to the last KC Worldcon, and I would have been 66 at the time.)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
86 47 II/4 25
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/18/2026 10:05 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <11117sr$2nci4$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

I was carded in Kansas City when I was there for a business
conference--at lunch, with several co-workers (who were not carded),
in an Italian restaurant, for a glass of wine. I was over forty at
the time.

It might have been the last Kansas City Worldcon where this happened.

I've been amused recently by a whole load of YouTube videos of US folk responding to posts about celebrating an 18th birthday with a beer by
saying that's illegal.

In most, if not all, of the U.S. the drinking age was raised to 21 a few
years ago.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

On 6/18/2026 12:00 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:

On 6/18/2026 10:05 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

In article <11117sr$2nci4$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

I was carded in Kansas City when I was there for a business
conference--at lunch, with several co-workers (who were not carded),
in an Italian restaurant, for a glass of wine. I was over forty at
the time.

It might have been the last Kansas City Worldcon where this happened.

I've been amused recently by a whole load of YouTube videos of US folk
responding to posts about celebrating an 18th birthday with a beer by
saying that's illegal.

In most, if not all, of the U.S. the drinking age was raised to 21 a few years ago.

So, you can get married (have consensual sex), vote, and serve in the military, at 18, but you need to be 21 to drink. So celebrate your 18th
with an orgy.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <m2ldcb6fv4.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>,
Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

begin fnord
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

[Hal Heydt]
And none of them should be confused with a deadweight ton, which is 35
cubic feet. (And, no, that's not a mistake in units.)

And the displacement ton is (if I recall) about 13.5 cubic meters.

[Hal Heydt]
Sigh... Brain fart in my case. I meant displacement ton. What
it works out to--to at least a first approximation--is that a
displacement ton is the volume of sea water that weighs a ton.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

In article <1111acv$2nci5$1@dont-email.me>,
evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

No, it was definitely a business trip, and Mark wasn't there. (Also,
I didn't go to the last KC Worldcon, and I would have been 66 at the
time.)

No, I meant it might have been the Worldcon where it happened to me.
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