• MT VOID, 03/06/26 -- Vol. 44, No. 36, Whole Number 2422

    From Evelyn C. Leeper@evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Mar 8 09:51:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    THE MT VOID
    03/06/26 -- Vol. 44, No. 36, Whole Number 2422

    Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
    All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
    the author unless otherwise noted.
    All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
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    The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
    An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at <http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

    Topics:
    Late-Breaking News about Movies on TV (comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Mini Reviews, Part 08 (MURDER IN THREE ACTS (1986),
    THREE ACT TRAGEDY (2010), AGATHA CHRISTIE'S
    SEVEN DIALS) (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Ray Harryhausen Films, Part 04 (JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS,
    FIRST MEN IN THE MOON) (film comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Herbert Hoover as Author (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    "Through Gates of Garnet and Gold" by Seanan McGuire
    (audio book review by Joe Karpierz)
    MYSTERIOUS ISLAND and STAR OF THE UNBORN
    (letter of comment by Andre Kuzniarek)
    WHO?, ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER, Ken Burns' AMERICAN
    REVOLUTION, Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot,
    Conventions, Cli-Fi, Aztec Alternate History,
    NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Oedipus and Jocasta,
    Homo sapiens and Neanderthals (letter of comment
    by Taras Wolansky)
    This Week's Reading (HEART OF A DOG) (book comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Late-Breaking News about Movies on TV (comments by Evelyn
    C. Leeper)

    First I will note that Turner Classic Movies is *not* showing THE
    LOST WEEKEND in March; it was pre-empted by TENDER MERCIES, no
    doubt part of a tribute to Robert Duvall.

    This is probably a good time to note that I put together the
    article for TCM in the MT VOID a few days ahead of the start of
    the month, and it runs in the last MT VOID before the start of the
    month. But they sometimes have last-minute changes (even in a
    given month), so I can't guarantee my recommendations will be run.

    Second, Channel Thirteen in the New York area is running
    "Remembering Leonard Nimoy", a 57-minute documentary from 2017, on
    Saturday, March 14, at 11:20PM. (Channel Thirteen doesn't get
    their program guide up until practically the last-minute--or
    later.) And for "Count of Monte Cristo" fans, they are beginning
    an eight-part mini-series based on THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO on
    "Masterpiece" on Sunday, March 22, at 10:00PM. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Mini Reviews, Part 08 (film reviews by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    This time, three Agatha Christie films (of varying quality):

    MURDER IN THREE ACTS (1986): MURDER IN THREE ACTS (based on THREE
    ACT TRAGEDY by Agatha Christine) stars Peter Ustinov as Hercule
    Poirot and he does a quite acceptable job. Jonathan Cecil as
    Captain Hastings is a casting mistake, though--his unusual
    appearance works against the concept of him as representing the
    average man, let alone the romantic character he often is in the
    novels.

    I understand why the producers thought Acapulco more exotic than
    Cornwall, and it apparently provided a better opportunity to have
    young women in skimpy bikinis walk through the scenes, but in my
    opinion, it works against the sort of atmosphere Christie was
    aiming for. (It also makes the evidence of a passport meaningless,
    because no passport was needed between Mexico and the United
    States.) And many of the characters have been changed.
    Satterthwaite becomes Hastings, the English actor becomes an
    American movie star, an American actress has been added, and so
    on. The motive has been changed as well. Only the barest skeleton
    of the original has been kept.

    I realize one should judge a film on its own merits, but on its
    blind faithfulness to its source. In that regard my complaint is
    that I found Tony Curtis as Cartwright annoying. Maybe he is
    supposed to be, but still...

    Released theatrically 30 September 1986.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091572/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/
    agatha_christies_murder_in_three_acts>


    THREE ACT TRAGEDY (2010): THREE ACT TRAGEDY (based on the Agatha
    Christie novel) is part of the "Agatha Christie's Poirot" series
    with David Suchet as Poirot. This does a better job of introducing
    the various characters than MURDER IN THREE ACTS. It does drop
    Satterthwaite, but does not replace him with Hastings. More to the
    point, it is a much more faithful adaptation of the novel,
    (Apparently the producers learned their lesson after having gotten
    flak for making massive changes to earlier episodes, notably
    APPOINTMENT WITH DEATH.)

    Released broadcast 19 June 2011.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1469899/reference>


    AGATHA CHRISTIE'S SEVEN DIALS (2026): AGATHA CHRISTIE'S SEVEN
    DIALS is a TV mini-series based on THE SEVEN DIALS MYSTERY by
    Agatha Christie (duh!). This is one of Christie's lesser-known
    novels (for starters, no Poirot or Marple), so I suppose the
    filmmakers decided they could make some fairly major changes. (On
    the other hand, they made major changes to at least one Poirot
    novel in the David Suchet series, so I suppose they didn't need an
    excuse.) The main problem was that it was obvious pretty early on
    who the villains were, and the series seemed more an excuse to
    have a bunch of period settings and costumes than to make a murder
    mystery.

    Released streaming 15 January 2026.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31974288/reference>

    What others are saying: <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/agatha_christies_seven_dials>

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Ray Harryhausen Films, Part 04 (film comments by Evelyn
    C. Leeper)

    JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS (1963): When Tom Hanks presented an
    honorary Oscar to special effects artist Ray Harryhausen, he said:
    "For some people, it's CITIZEN KANE (1941) or CASABLANCA (1942)
    but, for me, I say JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS (1963) is the greatest
    movie ever made."

    This was marketed as a family film, and it is, as far as it goes.
    But adults familiar with Greek mythology will know what comes
    after the "happily ever after"ending. There are also a lot of
    scantily-clad dancing girls with seductive movements and poses.

    (Claiming a happy ending for this is like the "happy ending" of
    IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, in which all the poorer people of Bedford
    Falls throw in their life savings to save George Bailey by making
    up the money that the richest man in town stole and gets to keep.)

    Jason may be brave, but he's also stupid: he announces to some
    random guy he meets that he is there to reclaim the throne from
    the evil King Pelias. Even if he weren't talking to Pelias, he
    could be talking to a supporters of Pelias. It's as if someone
    went to Occupied France in 1942 and told some random passerby that
    he was a member of the Resistance.

    Harryhausen uses the same techniques to show Jason on Olympus with
    the gods (and later with Poseidon) as he used in THE 3 WORLDS OF
    GULLIVER to portray Gulliver with Brobdingnagians. But the falling
    rocks are now done with high-speed photography rather than stop
    motion.

    The crayon drawings for the credits are back, and the story takes
    place largely on the sea, which has become another trademark. Only
    EARTH VS. THE FLYING SAUCERS, FIRST MEN IN THE MOON, and VALLEY OF
    GWANGI avoid the sea altogether.

    Talos is impressive, but in at least one way it was probably
    easier to animate than most of Harryhausen's, because it does not
    need the fluidity of motion a living creature would, and also
    won't have problem with fingerprints in the fur or some such
    (although Harryhausen says it was difficult to get the appropriate
    jerky motion when up until then he had been trying for smooth
    motion).

    Note that Hylas dies because he was holding the brooch pin that
    Hercules had stolen. Clearly the "curse" was upon whoever had it
    rather than whoever stole it, sort of like everything in the horde
    had a homing beacon on it.

    The scene of Sinbad fighting a skeleton in THE 7TH VOYAGE OF
    SINBAD was clearly just a trial run for the scene here with three
    people and *seven* skeletons.

    Released theatrically 13 June 1963.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057197/reference>

    What others are saying: <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1010939-jason_and_the_argonauts>


    FIRST MEN IN THE MOON (1964): FIRST MEN IN THE MOON begins with a
    United Nations landing on the moon. This seems odd, since by 1964,
    the space race was on, and the UN wasn't part of it. But the
    newscaster describes the first man to step on the moon as "a farm
    boy from Indiana". In this they were fairly prescient, being off
    by one state: Neil Armstrong was a farm boy from Ohio, right next
    door to Indiana.

    However, having the UN mission land exactly where Cavor's mission
    had landed and planted a flag seventy years earlier really is
    stretching the willing suspension of disbelief.

    The modern-day framing sequence was added because Schneer didn't
    think people would accept the story set entirely in the 19th
    century. While Harryhausen's first three films with Schneer were
    all set in the then-present, the next four were set in ancient
    Baghdad, 18th or 19th century England and various islands, 19th
    century America and an unknown island, and ancient Greece.
    Admittedly, the moon voyage would bring comparisons to the
    then-current space race, but it is not clear why this would be a
    problem.

    There is a nod to THE TIME MACHINE (1960) in that the Selenites
    drag the space capsule into a giant structure, leaving behind a
    pair of drag tracks, and closing some strong metal doors behind
    them.

    Released theatrically 20 November 1964.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058100/reference>

    What others are saying: <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/first_men_in_the_moon>


    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Herbert Hoover as Author (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    In response to Hal Heydt's comments on Herbert Hoover in the
    02/13/26 issue of the MT VOID, Evelyn responds:

    [Hal Heydt wrote,] "The two works I'm familiar with are 'The Naval
    War of 1812' by Theodore Roosevelt and the English translation of
    Agricola's 'De Re Metallica' by Herbert and Catherine Hoover. It
    took both Hoovers to do the job as a lot of the Latinized mining
    terms had changed radically within a century of the original
    publication in 1545. Herbert was a mining engineer and Catherine
    was a Classical scholar." [-hh]

    I got to the library and checked: The Hoovers (or even Hoover
    alone) are not among the Presidential authors covered. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: "Through Gates of Garnet and Gold" by Seanan McGuire
    (copyright 2026, Macmillan Audio, 4 hours and 33 minutes, ASIN:
    B0F6G4FTW8, Narrator: Cynthia Hopkins) (audio book review by Joe
    Karpierz)

    "Through Gates of Garnet and Gold" is the eleventh entry in Seanan
    McGuire's award winning "Wayward Children" series. I've read (or
    listened to) each of them, and while I find them (mostly)
    enjoyable, their quality is uneven. Those of you who read my
    reviews are probably aware that I'm generally not a fan of long
    running series, or, maybe more appropriately, of an endless number
    of books in a universe that are repetitive and don't break new
    ground, or at least do something different (see Martha Wells'
    "Murderbot" series--sacrilegious, I know, but there it is). I
    have a different relationship with the "Wayward Children" series.
    It's longer running, for sure. And the stories are different each
    time, so it has that going for it. The issue I have is that each
    entry in the series is message driven, so much so that it does
    grate on my nerves. On one hand, the messages are necessary, but
    on the other hand, McGuire is preaching to the choir. If you're
    reading the "Wayward Children" series, you're familiar with and
    agree with the messages that are present in each story. You know
    what you're getting yourself into. "Through Gates of Garnet and
    Gold" has its own messages of friendship, belonging, and helping
    people in need. But it's told in such a way that I don't feel
    beaten over the head with it.

    This story is a reunion of sorts. Nancy, a favorite character who
    was introduced in the first book, makes a return here. If memory
    serves, she was in the Halls of the Dead, found her way back to
    Eleanor's school for wayward children, and left again to go back
    to the Halls of the Dead. Nancy lives her life as a statue, moving
    very slowly, if at all. She is alive, as are all the rest of the
    statues. However, things have gone awry, as the truly dead have
    invaded the halls where the statues are and are killing the
    living. The Lord and Lady of the Halls are powerless to stop the
    onslaught, so they send Nancy on a mission to find friends that
    can help them stop the dead from killing the living. Nancy ends up
    back at Eleanor's recruiting her friends to help her with her
    mission--her quest, as it were. Quests are forbidden by Eleanor
    except under unusual circumstances, and this one apparently
    qualified. So Kade, Christopher, Sumi, and new girl Talia, along
    with Nancy head back to the Halls of the Dead to try to deal with
    the situation. And the situation is more complex than it seems, as
    the dead have a legitimate gripe against the Lord of the Dead (who
    is setting himself up as a god of sorts), and the instigator of
    the attacks is yet another old friend from one of the earlier (and
    one of my favorite) books in the series.

    For me, this is one of the better books in the series. There is
    more action and plot, and less of the pontificating that had
    started to take over the series the last several novellas. Stuff
    happened, and that's the way I like my stories. Readers new to the
    series should not start here, though, since appreciation for the
    story requires familiarity with earlier entries in the series.
    McGuire does a nice job at the beginning of the book describing
    the background and mechanics (if that's the word I want use) of
    the doors. I'm not sure it's necessary here, but it's a nice
    refresher and I appreciate it.

    All in all, "Through Gates of Garnet and Gold" is a good entry in
    the "Wayward Children" series, and I do recommend it. [-jak]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: MYSTERIOUS ISLAND and STAR OF THE UNBORN (letter of comment
    by Andre Kuzniarek)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on MYSTERIOUS ISLAND and STAR OF
    THE UNBORN in the 02/27/26 issue of the MT VOID, Andre Kuzniarek
    writes:

    While also being a fan of the book, MYSTERIOUS ISLAND shares the
    top of my list of comfort movies (along with JOURNEY TO THE CENTER
    OF THE EARTH) for its wild-and-woolly never-a-dull-moment pace,
    cool animation and settings, and awesome Bernard Herrmann score
    (in both movies). I grew up seeing these every year on local TV so
    I was kind of indoctrinated, but the scripts are sharp and hold up
    to this day so I can't recommend them enough.

    You mentioned STAR OF THE UNBORN and the only reason I recognize
    that title is the book-tuber Bookpilled
    (<https://www.youtube.com/@Bookpilled>) lauding it as possibly his
    favorite book, or certainly one he features a lot in his rankings
    and recommendations, while being fairly rare as well. I enjoy his
    channel and critiques, despite his apparent bias towards new wave
    SF writers, where I tend lean more in the classic direction. Might
    we get a review from you? Would love to compare takes! [-ak]

    Evelyn replies:

    I haven't read STAR OF THE UNBORN for decades (at least since I
    started keeping a reading log in 1992), so I would have to re-read
    it to comment on it. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: WHO?, ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER, Ken Burns' AMERICAN
    REVOLUTION, Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot, Conventions, Cli-Fi,
    Aztec Alternate History, NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Oedipus and
    Jocasta,
    Homo sapiens and Neanderthals (letter of comment by Taras Wolansky)

    In response to comments on a lot of items in several issues of the
    MT VOID, Taras Wolansky writes:

    The movie, WHO? (1973) sounds interesting. I see it's an
    adaptation of Algis Budrys' 1958 novel of the same title. I
    remember seeing a copy of the paperback at a convention, though I
    never read it.

    In ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER, Leonardo DiCaprio is pretty funny as
    a drugged out ex-revolutionary who can't remember the passwords
    and contacts he once depended on.

    The film has been described as an "Antifa wet dream" (an alternate
    history, kind of), but it's actually more complex than that.
    Teyana Taylor strikingly portrays a revolutionary leader whose
    name should have been a warning: Perfidia. In short order, she
    abandons her baby daughter; kills a security guard during a
    botched robbery; captured, betrays her comrades to get into
    witness protection. Clearly, for her the revolution was no more
    than an excuse to indulge her love of violence. (Curiously, the
    reviewer for the NEW YORKER completely missed the betrayal, as
    though his idea of the film overrode what was actually on the
    screen.) The film's weakest point is Sean Penn's cartoonish white
    supremacist.

    I loved Ken Burns' AMERICAN REVOLUTION, but it made me a little
    bit uneasy because it seemed to fall short exactly on the parts of
    the story with which I was most familiar.

    For example, the crewman [that] John Paul Jones killed (before the
    war, when he was still John Paul) was a mutineer; he fled because
    the mutineer's family had too much influence with the court.

    His ship in his battle with the SERAPIS, the BONHOMME RICHARD, was
    an old East Indiaman with garbage cannons. His victory against a
    newer and better-armed ship was not just luck, but came from his
    risky decision to build a "fighting top", essentially a pillbox
    full of snipers elevated above the deck. Thus, with the ships
    locked together, the British guns dominated below the deck, while
    the American fighting top cleared everything above. This
    permitted one of Jones' men to crawl out on a yardarm and toss a
    grenade into the British gun deck, setting off a great deal of
    powder and causing the British captain to strike his colors.

    Burns' documentary also seems to try to soft-pedal accounts of
    Native American atrocities, which played a significant role in the
    war. (I've not heard anyone else make this connection, but when
    I read about the October 7 atrocities in Israel, they struck me as
    eerily familiar.) Unable to split up his army to protect hundreds
    of frontier settlements, Washington sent Gen. John Sullivan to
    burn Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) granaries so the warrior bands
    attacking American settlements would have to go home to hunt, to
    feed their families.

    I, too, think of Joan Hickson as the definitive Miss Marple. She
    reminds me of the coolly intelligent, elderly nuns who were the
    principals of the various parochial schools I attended as a kid,
    five of them between 1st grade and 12th. It's like the way David
    Suchet is the definitive Hercule Poirot, or Alastair Sim, the best
    Scrooge. Unfortunately, while elderly characters on the page
    never get any older, the actors portraying them do.

    Mercifully, I caught only a few minutes of Tony Randall's grotty
    Poirot. (Freudian slip: I actually wrote Inspector Clouseau
    before I corrected it!)

    To my surprise, I've been to more conventions than you have,
    apparently. I figure it's about five conventions a year for 40
    years. But then, I went to some conventions you wouldn't have; for
    example, anime.

    Cli-fi: Do "global cooling" stories from the Seventies qualify?
    (Global temperatures had flatlined ca. 1940-1970.). Wilson
    Tucker's ICE AND IRON is, er, warmly remembered.

    The film, THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW, may have started out as a global
    cooling screenplay, reworked into a clumsy "warming causes Ice
    Age" story line. Or maybe it was simply that global warming is
    less photogenic: people standing around, mopping their brows.

    Esther Friesner actually wrote an alternate history short story in
    which the Aztecs conquered Spain. Which doesn't work because the
    Old World diseases to which they had no resistance would have
    wiped out the Aztec forces like H. G. Wells' Martians. This is
    wrongheaded even aside from that: compared to the Aztecs, the
    Conquistadores were the good guys -- which is why all the
    indigenous nations oppressed by the Aztecs eagerly joined up with
    the Spanish to fight them.

    I've never seen Nigel Kneale's 1954 adaptation of George Orwell's
    NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR. Of course, every generation thinks of the
    book as applying to its own time; but it is really about Stalin
    (whose minions in Spain murdered independent leftists and nearly
    killed Orwell), and Stalin's many English friends (who blocked the
    publication of Orwell's ANIMAL FARM for years).

    On Oedipus and Jocasta's ages, it's possible that the AI, grasping
    at digital straws, made an estimate based on the actors who have
    played the two roles over the years. If I had to make a realistic
    guess I might posit that Jocasta married at the typical Ancient
    Greek age of 15, and gave birth to Oedipus at 16. Then she might
    have been around 40 when she married her son.

    [And a comment not in reference to anything in previous MT VOIDS]

    QUEST FOR FIRE had it right: "When our species and Neanderthals
    interbred, it may have been mostly female Homo sapiens and male
    Neanderthals that mated." [-tw]

    Evelyn responds:

    The last is referring a paywalled article at <https://www.newscientist.com/article/2517239-when-we-interbred- with-neanderthals-they-were-usually-the-fathers/>

    It begins:

    "When our species and Neanderthals interbred, it may have been
    mostly female Homo sapiens and male Neanderthals that mated.
    That's the conclusion of a study of the genetic traces left in
    both populations by the intermixing.

    "It isn't clear why this sex-biased mating pattern would have
    happened. It may be that male Neanderthals preferred female H.
    sapiens over females of their own species, or that female H.
    sapiens females preferred Neanderthal males, or both. There is
    also no way to determine whether the matings were consensual or
    forced."

    And as for Oedipus and Jocasta, I think I figured about the same,
    but 40 years old is a bit late to start having what would
    eventually be four more children. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    Our book for our book-and-film SF group in February was HEART OF A
    DOG by Mikhail Bulgakov (translated by Mirra Ginsberg) (Grove
    Press, ISBN 978-0-802-15059-2), or as Hoopla has it "by Michael
    Bulgaria". (In fairness, Hoopla has the URL with "Michael
    Bulgaria" redirect to the correct spelling, no doubt to compensate
    for autocorrect changing "Mikhail Bulgakov" to "Michael Bulgaria".)

    The book was written in 1925, but banned in the Soviet Union until
    1987. However, it circulated in samizdat in the interim. It was
    translated in to English in 1968. After it was allowed in the
    Soviet Union, it was rapidly made into a film there in 1988, and
    the film is faithful to the book (with some one the racier parts
    cleaned up, e.g., Vasnetsova's background as either a prostitute
    or someone's mistress).

    My notes were primarily as I was reading the book, which is
    basically a "Frankenstein" story (or maybe more a "Dr. Moreau"
    story), told with the dog who is turned into a man as the narrator.

    While dogs can shed tears, they are for biological purposes only
    (e.g., to lubricate the eyes), not for emotional reasons.

    At the time Bulgakov was writing, a chervontset (plural,
    chervontsy) was ten rubles, much as we used to refer to a
    ten-dollar bill as a "sawbuck". There are one hundred kopecks in a
    ruble. A pood is about 36 pounds. Why these are not translated (or
    at least footnoted) is a mystery.

    When the narrator describes learning to read, the translator has a
    difficult job, because she has to translate everything into
    English, including the letters from the Cyrillic of the Russian
    words to the Latin of the English. So the fourth letter on what is
    obviously a nameplate after "p-r-o" in English would be "f" (for
    "Prof.") and hence she must describe it as "a queer little hooked
    stick, nasty looking, unfamiliar." But in Russian, the next
    Cyrillic letter would be the same as the Greek "phi": a circle
    with a vertical line through it.

    The doctor, Philip Philippovich, says that he cannot endure the
    word "counterrevolutionary": "It's absolutely impossible to tell
    what it covers!" In the 1950s in the United States, "Communist"
    held the same position. Now it's "woke".

    Philip Philippovich keeps repeating "from Seville to Granada" and
    "to the sacred banks of the Nile". The first is a line from
    Mozart's DON GIOVANNI, the second is from Verdi's AIDA. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Evelyn C. Leeper
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com


    Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one
    who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
    --Ambrose Bierce


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Mar 8 16:10:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <10ojush$2b4r6$1@dont-email.me>,
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:


    FIRST MEN IN THE MOON (1964): FIRST MEN IN THE MOON begins with a
    United Nations landing on the moon.

    The BBC did a version of this back in 2010 and they actually had a
    dedication to Lionel Jeffries, who had recently died. The writer was
    Mark Gatiss, who played Cavor. However, their physics was off. At one
    point, Cavor points out that they are heavier than on the surface, so
    they must be deep underground. But anyone with a knowledge of simple
    physics knows that the deeper you go, the lighter you are. (At the
    centre of a planet, you would be weightless.)
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Keith F. Lynch@kfl@KeithLynch.net to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Mar 8 16:25:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:
    FIRST MEN IN THE MOON (1964): FIRST MEN IN THE MOON begins with a
    United Nations landing on the moon.

    The BBC did a version of this back in 2010 and they actually had a
    dedication to Lionel Jeffries, who had recently died. The writer
    was Mark Gatiss, who played Cavor. However, their physics was off.
    At one point, Cavor points out that they are heavier than on the
    surface, so they must be deep underground. But anyone with a
    knowledge of simple physics knows that the deeper you go, the
    lighter you are. (At the centre of a planet, you would be
    weightless.)

    That depends on how the density varies with depth. Here on Earth, for instance, it's believed that gravity remains roughly constant until
    you're halfway to the core, and then drops.

    If the density is uniform, then gravity decreases linearly in
    proportion to your depth. At the other extreme, if all the mass is concentrated in the center the inverse square law continues all the
    way to the center, gravity becoming infinite at the singularity in
    the middle.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 9 11:22:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <10ok7u9$aev$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:


    That depends on how the density varies with depth. Here on Earth, for instance, it's believed that gravity remains roughly constant until
    you're halfway to the core, and then drops.

    That can't be right. A planet can be considered as a nested group of
    hollow spheres. The gravity inside a hollow sphere is zero. Therefore
    gravity decreases as you go deeper.
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  • From Keith F. Lynch@kfl@KeithLynch.net to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 9 14:25:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:
    That depends on how the density varies with depth. Here on Earth,
    for instance, it's believed that gravity remains roughly constant
    until you're halfway to the core, and then drops.

    That can't be right. A planet can be considered as a nested group
    of hollow spheres. The gravity inside a hollow sphere is zero.
    Therefore gravity decreases as you go deeper.

    Gravity will always be zero at the center. (It may also be infinite
    at the center if there's a singularity there.) The density profile is
    likely to vary with depth. Only if it's constant will gravity drop
    linearly with depth.

    See https://profoundphysics.com/gravity-underground/
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 9 15:54:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <10oml86$hd4$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

    Only if it's constant will gravity drop
    linearly with depth.

    Never said it was. But still, the deeper you go, the less the
    gravitational attraction.
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  • From Keith F. Lynch@kfl@KeithLynch.net to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 9 16:35:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    But still, the deeper you go, the less the gravitational attraction.

    Again, https://profoundphysics.com/gravity-underground/
    disagrees with you. It says gravity is at a maximum, 10.7
    m/s/s (as contrasted with 9.8 at the surface), at the outer
    edge of the core. That's about halfway to the center.

    As far as I know, that's conjectural, based on the best guess as to
    how Earth's internal density varies with depth. The obvious approach
    would be to simply dig very deep holes and directly measure the
    gravity at the bottom of them. Unfortunately, that's not practical
    except for very shallow depths.

    One approach would be to use Earth as a gravitational lens. Find a
    constant uniform distant point source of gravitational waves, and
    observe how it varies downstream of Earth. From that, the exact
    density profile can be deduced. Similarly with other planets, and
    with the sun.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Keith F. Lynch@kfl@KeithLynch.net to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 9 17:49:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    As far as I know, that's conjectural, based on the best guess as to
    how Earth's internal density varies with depth.

    Correction: We know how the internal density varies with depth, as it
    can be deduced from the shape of the geoid, i.e. of mean sea level.

    ObFandom: To his dying day Hal Clement was apologizing for getting
    the shape of Mesklin wrong. But I'm not sure that he was wrong,
    or whether he was just implicitly using an unlikely model for its
    internal structure. (Mesklin was a rapidly rotating planet, one which
    humans could visit near the equator where the apparent gravity was
    moderate, but not near the poles where it was high.)
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Tue Mar 10 16:33:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <10on16c$ncu$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:


    ObFandom: To his dying day Hal Clement was apologizing for getting
    the shape of Mesklin wrong. But I'm not sure that he was wrong,
    or whether he was just implicitly using an unlikely model for its
    internal structure.

    I remember hearing him at a convention saying that people with more
    computing power than he had with a slide rule worked out that the equator
    would be more of a ridge.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sat Mar 14 21:30:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    On 3/10/2026 12:33 PM, Paul Dormer wrote:
    In article <10on16c$ncu$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:


    ObFandom: To his dying day Hal Clement was apologizing for getting
    the shape of Mesklin wrong. But I'm not sure that he was wrong,
    or whether he was just implicitly using an unlikely model for its
    internal structure.

    I remember hearing him at a convention saying that people with more
    computing power than he had with a slide rule worked out that the equator would be more of a ridge.

    I think Keith is correct here.

    For gravity inside the Earth, the density of different
    parts - mantle, core etc does make a difference. A graph
    showing the expected gravity level at different depths
    can be found at

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth#Depth,

    and indeed, it's flat through the mantle, rising
    slightly as you approach the outer core, then falling
    near-linerally to zero at the center.


    The nearest actual object to Mesklin I'm aware of is the Kuiper
    Belt object Haumea. It's a flattened (American) football shape,
    2100 x 1680 x 1074 km, and rotates in a bit under 4 hours.

    Gravity varies from 0.93 m/s^2 at the poles, to 0.24 m/s^2
    at the longest axis - nearly a factor of 4.

    Earth's gravity also varies, with it being generally lower
    near the equator than at the poles. Its about 1% lower in
    Mexico City, compared to Anchorage.

    pt


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Mar 15 16:52:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <10p522s$ob3m$1@dont-email.me>, petertrei@gmail.com
    (Cryptoengineer) wrote:


    Earth's gravity also varies, with it being generally lower
    near the equator than at the poles. Its about 1% lower in
    Mexico City, compared to Anchorage.

    OK, my maths is not good enough to do the calculations.

    I am reminded of a letter appearing the paper a few years ago. A student
    had just done a maths paper and a physics paper. She found it amusing
    that one gave the gravitational constant as 9.8 and the other as 9.81. I
    was not the only person writing in to tell her that the acceleration due
    to gravity is not the same as the gravitational constant, and that the
    former does vary as you move around the earth's surface.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Someone Else@someone.else@example.com.invalid to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Mar 15 23:13:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In Message-ID:<10p522s$ob3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    Earth's gravity also varies, with it being generally lower
    near the equator than at the poles. Its about 1% lower in
    Mexico City, compared to Anchorage.

    https://xkcd.com/852/
    And be sure to read the hover text.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From djheydt@djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Mar 16 04:33:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <68terkl83h4f13448jssue11eagrjve30k@4ax.com>,
    Someone Else <someone.else@example.com.invalid> wrote:
    In Message-ID:<10p522s$ob3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    Earth's gravity also varies, with it being generally lower
    near the equator than at the poles. Its about 1% lower in
    Mexico City, compared to Anchorage.

    https://xkcd.com/852/
    And be sure to read the hover text.

    [Hal Heydt]
    As understand it, during the Alaska gold rush, there was much
    alarm that gold shipped from Alaska to San Francisco was
    "missing" some of the shipment. It was finally determined that
    the difference was due the difference in gravity, as they were
    measuring *weight* not *mass*.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2