• Re: L. Ron Hubbard said you don't get rich writing sci-fi

    From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 10 15:44:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/8/2026 11:45 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 09/08/2026 02:03, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/7/2026 11:48 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person-a <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or, >>>>> worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet
    bots.-a He
    basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind. The ones posting crap into this group are
    those demonstrating the enormity of their total imbecilitude (is that
    my word of the Captain's?) by repeating the unfounded popular lie
    that Homer's works and the Bible were the product of an oral
    tradition, despite writing having existed for over a millennium
    before both works were composed and the historicity of both being
    verified by modern archaeology and the discovery (even in the time of
    Herodotus) of Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions
    testifying to the historical people and events these texts mention.
    The Merneptah Stela not only corroborates the account of the outbreak
    of the Trojan War and the attack on Egypt by the Trojans as described
    by Herodotus but also of the Exodus as described by Manetho and the
    Bible even naming Israel itself as being left devoid of seed. Then
    there's the Inscription and mural or Ramses III which corroborates
    the attack on Egypt by Achaeans (named) led by Menelaus and Teukrians
    (named) led by Teucer the founder of Salamis from a base in Cyprus
    which is referred to in the Odyssey and is the basis of Euripides'
    play Helen.

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott

    We have people like this drop into rasfw periodically. They all follow
    the same pattern: They have some elaborate theory that they desperately
    want to-a be taken seriously, but which falls apart under expert academic
    scrutiny.

    You mean like the total and absolute BOLLOCKS of oral traditions? As
    opposed to the truth, that writing was in continuous use in ancient
    Greece (including Cyprus and Asia-Minor) since 1900 BC without
    interruption as has been proven archaeologically and history was written down. As opposed to accepting what ancient historians wrote down
    themselves, that kings lists and lists of Argive priestesses of Hera
    were written down and preserved since 1700 or 1800 BC along with the
    notable historical events that happened year by year while they were in office. Oh no, that simple idea of actually recording history in writing year-by-year can't possibly be true, so, these totally degenerate fools
    have to invent a complete and utter total load of BOLLOCKS about oral traditions, without even knowing what an oral tradition even is, PARRY
    SAID THEY WERE ALL BY DEFINITION REQUIRED TO UNDERGO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE EVERY TIME THEY WERE PASSED ON TO DIFFERENT POETS YOU FUCKING IGNORANT UNEDUCATED IMBECILE, in order to make everything extremely complicated
    for everyone else so that they can put forward anything they want to
    make up themselves out of thin air to suit their political views and
    pretend that it's actual history and no one else who they don't deem
    capable of understanding their stupid illogical nonsense is a fool that
    must be ridiculed so that others are discouraged from also calling out
    their lies. FUCKING DEGENERATE IMBECILES!

    They come to rasfw thinking we'll be more open minded and accepting, but
    don't realize that decades of reading SF leaves fans with the most
    sensitive bullshit detectors on the planet.

    Reading George Orwell's 1984 makes it obvious that these degenerate
    fucking imbeciles proposing that oral traditions even existed when there
    is not one single ancient or even more recent source prior to Parry even recording their existence, NOT ONE, and even Parry said it was
    impossible to prove they were even a traditions, let alone them
    recording actual history, which Parry didn't even go as far as stating anyway, because he only considered them to be a means of creating
    fiction in literate societies where everything was eventually written
    down and recorded, including the material he used for his own studies,
    are working for MINITRUE and employed in the Department of Fiction
    rewriting and dissembling history and literature in order to insert
    their ignorant deranged thoughts and political messages so as to serve
    their degenerate left-wing ideology, the ideology of George Orwell's
    Nazis, that of Ingsoc, the English Socialist Party. FUCKING MORONS!


    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get upset, and
    eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor' to do so in time.

    pt

    I'm calling you out as the Emperor With No Clothes. You don't have a
    shred of evidence to dispute the simple fact that ancient history and
    poetry was recorded in writing, so you try to make out that everyone who sees you parading down the streets completely naked, covered only with
    your invisible birthday suit of oral traditions (which you don't even understand and have not even read the original source material for,
    which says the complete opposite of what you are calming), is an idiot, except after you have been called out by little boy stating the obvious
    they are all laughing their heads off at you. YOU STUPID FUCKING
    DEGENERATE!


    I find your claim that Parry does not support oral tradition to be
    lacking. I have receipts.

    You seem incapable of providing actual checkable references, so
    I went and got some.

    Try this:

    Studies in the Epic Technique of Oral Verse-Making: I. Homer and
    Homeric Style

    https://chs.harvard.edu/curated-article/milman-parry-studies-in-the-epic-technique-of-oral-verse-making-i-homer-and-homeric-style/

    and

    Studies in the Epic Technique of Oral Verse-Making: II. The Homeric
    Language as the Language of an Oral Poetry

    https://chs.harvard.edu/curated-article/milman-parry-studies-in-the-epic-technique-of-oral-verse-making-ii-the-homeric-language-as-the-language-of-an-oral-poetry/

    both by Milman Parry himself, published 1930.

    Parry argues that the Iliad and Odyssey were composed in a traditional,
    oral poetic style, not a literate or individually crafted written style.
    He demonstrates this by analyzing HomerrCOs dictionrCoespecially formulasrCoand showing that their structure, frequency, and
    systematization can only arise in a long-standing oral tradition.

    Please explain how this fits in with your claims.

    pt



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 10 19:53:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cei5$aqi$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a
    pale shadow of his trolling.

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to
    beg to be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    This is because he, like many, started trolling people in real life
    before moving to the net. The kids today have it easy, never actually leaving their parents' basement to troll anyone in person. To wit:

    In article <15025@chaph.usc.edu> carasso@aludra.usc.edu (Roger RDC
    Carasso) writ es:
    TRUE:
    Me and a couple of my friends at Cal Poly went into a porn movie
    with several Soft Soap Bottles in a backpack. We'd yell out "Oh,
    oh, oh, yes, yes, I'm coming!", and then squirt out the Soft Soap
    off the balcony. Some guy below then yelled "HEY...What the fuck
    is *this*!" We were laughing our heads off.

    That'll teach them to sit in the front without umbrellas. I recall him
    setting off Merde by calling her a "fat hairy douchebag".

    Mao pissing off Gnat and pretending it was his son all along was a
    classic backpedal and self own.
    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 10 19:55:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cu8v$6rs$1@panix2.panix.com:

    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <hisj7lpfc4v9dh03aog5u23hgls2sjcp0g@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:


    And some people think kids today are bad!

    Cujo is a tasteless troll

    Perhaps, but Cujo is a pretty good troll. At least he displays skill
    at the game. Better than crossposting random screeds all over.
    --scott

    <snicker>

    Nadless T. Capon thinks trolling is setting followups to
    alt.sex.pedophilia. Charming bloke, isn't he?
    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 10 19:51:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <115csnt$15kp$5@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3b8685c6f6adc98a2cd@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Well, we did have poets before we had writing. Music/poetry is
    our oldest art form, older than cave paintings, and it began as a
    single thing. That was long before any literacy.

    Please explain the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls?
    They are a Grateful Dead cover band.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 02:34:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <MPG.44e3e0b399cd0d3b98a2d0@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    Paul S Person wrote in article
    <iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.


    Sounds like the Book of Enoch.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 02:35:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <MPG.44e3e0ea422ba0ed98a2d1@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <115csnt$15kp$5@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3b8685c6f6adc98a2cd@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Well, we did have poets before we had writing. Music/poetry is
    our oldest art form, older than cave paintings, and it began as a
    single thing. That was long before any literacy.

    Please explain the Dead Sea Scrolls.


    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.



    But ancient written scrools.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 02:43:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <XnsB4A4A19F3E7FDPantyheadPoorHouse@62.164.182.27>,
    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cei5$aqi$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>>news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a
    pale shadow of his trolling.

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to
    beg to be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    This is because he, like many, started trolling people in real life
    before moving to the net. The kids today have it easy, never actually
    leaving their parents' basement to troll anyone in person. To wit:

    In article <15025@chaph.usc.edu> carasso@aludra.usc.edu (Roger RDC
    Carasso) writ es:
    TRUE:
    Me and a couple of my friends at Cal Poly went into a porn movie
    with several Soft Soap Bottles in a backpack. We'd yell out "Oh,
    oh, oh, yes, yes, I'm coming!", and then squirt out the Soft Soap
    off the balcony. Some guy below then yelled "HEY...What the fuck
    is *this*!" We were laughing our heads off.

    That'll teach them to sit in the front without umbrellas. I recall him >setting off Merde by calling her a "fat hairy douchebag".

    Mao pissing off Gnat and pretending it was his son all along was a
    classic backpedal and self own.

    Path: news.nk.ca!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-4.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.netnews.com!feed-9.dca.netnews.com!dca.netnews.com!not-for-mail
    X-Trace: DXC=U88joKISoWJ]2f>5GVFLaGHWonT5<]0TM@GOK[m5A6WB3[L8B6BE9jM[\0g3cZi7OOH4;EQT?jIR@]:<goFYUTfDf`EiTT^YOEK?Z=PAV7e@cJFYI\JiSE?DB
    X-Complaints-To: support@blocknews.net
    Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,alt.arts.poetry.comments
    Subject: Re: Bonnie Tyler was not a Timelord
    From: Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net>
    References: <12ecec6220e538eb3c14b09151f2c7ef@dizum.com> <112o78m$17vm$2@gallifrey.nk.ca>
    Organization: Debunker Central - Give us a chance to ridicule you and your stupid beliefs.
    Message-ID: <XnsB484C8FB410C6PantyheadPoorHouse@62.164.182.27>
    User-Agent: Xnews/2009.05.01
    Date: 09 Jul 2026 23:45:25 GMT
    Lines: 22
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1
    X-Trace: 1783640725 reader.netnews.com 22 127.0.0.1:56563
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote in
    news:112o78m$17vm$2@gallifrey.nk.ca:


    In article <12ecec6220e538eb3c14b09151f2c7ef@dizum.com>,
    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
    she had a total eclipse of the heart


    Yeah! Meaning?

    Do you often hear a lot of "WHOOSH" sounds above your head, dimwit?

    If you do, I think I figured out why. You're just as stupid as
    Little Willie Douchebag. Besides being kooks, you also have "The WHOOSH of
    Cluelessness" in common. Damn, you are stupid.



    --
    "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're
    functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -
    Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet >poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets >another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 02:44:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <XnsB4A4A1FB3394EPantyheadPoorHouse@62.164.182.27>,
    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cu8v$6rs$1@panix2.panix.com:

    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <hisj7lpfc4v9dh03aog5u23hgls2sjcp0g@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:


    And some people think kids today are bad!

    Cujo is a tasteless troll

    Perhaps, but Cujo is a pretty good troll. At least he displays skill
    at the game. Better than crossposting random screeds all over.
    --scott

    <snicker>

    Nadless T. Capon thinks trolling is setting followups to
    alt.sex.pedophilia. Charming bloke, isn't he?

    Path: news.nk.ca!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-4.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.netnews.com!feed-9.dca.netnews.com!dca.netnews.com!not-for-mail
    X-Trace: DXC=U88joKISoWJ]2f>5GVFLaGHWonT5<]0TM@GOK[m5A6WB3[L8B6BE9jM[\0g3cZi7OOH4;EQT?jIR@]:<goFYUTfDf`EiTT^YOEK?Z=PAV7e@cJFYI\JiSE?DB
    X-Complaints-To: support@blocknews.net
    Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,alt.arts.poetry.comments
    Subject: Re: Bonnie Tyler was not a Timelord
    From: Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net>
    References: <12ecec6220e538eb3c14b09151f2c7ef@dizum.com> <112o78m$17vm$2@gallifrey.nk.ca>
    Organization: Debunker Central - Give us a chance to ridicule you and your stupid beliefs.
    Message-ID: <XnsB484C8FB410C6PantyheadPoorHouse@62.164.182.27>
    User-Agent: Xnews/2009.05.01
    Date: 09 Jul 2026 23:45:25 GMT
    Lines: 22
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1
    X-Trace: 1783640725 reader.netnews.com 22 127.0.0.1:56563
    Xref: news.nk.ca rec.arts.drwho:1268441 alt.arts.poetry.comments:990513 X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 260712-4, 7/12/2026), Inbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote in
    news:112o78m$17vm$2@gallifrey.nk.ca:


    In article <12ecec6220e538eb3c14b09151f2c7ef@dizum.com>,
    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
    she had a total eclipse of the heart


    Yeah! Meaning?

    Do you often hear a lot of "WHOOSH" sounds above your head, dimwit?

    If you do, I think I figured out why. You're just as stupid as
    Little Willie Douchebag. Besides being kooks, you also have "The WHOOSH of
    Cluelessness" in common. Damn, you are stupid.



    --
    "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're
    functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -
    Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet >poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets >another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The True Melissa@thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 05:09:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Doctor wrote in article <115e1q5$20ke$19@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3e0ea422ba0ed98a2d1@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    [quoted text muted]


    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    But ancient written scrools.

    There's nothing to explain. They're from after the preliterate
    period. That doesn't mean the preliterate period didn't exist.
    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 13:30:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <MPG.44e4b0be9ebebcd498a2dd@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <115e1q5$20ke$19@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3e0ea422ba0ed98a2d1@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    [quoted text muted]


    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    But ancient written scrools.

    There's nothing to explain. They're from after the preliterate
    period. That doesn't mean the preliterate period didn't exist.


    Or that Ancient Israel was highly literate.


    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Aug 11 09:32:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    Paul S Person wrote in article
    <iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.
    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.
    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become
    planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.
    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time
    documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of
    those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the
    wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as
    Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.
    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book
    would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Aug 12 04:58:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <nbim7l9f4iitc0mbbgsk42fdm0epsfg9rl@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa ><thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote in article >><iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>> >>Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.

    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become
    planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.

    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time
    documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of
    those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the
    wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as >Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.

    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book
    would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.

    Roswell 1947 anyone?

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Aug 12 09:14:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 04:58:40 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <nbim7l9f4iitc0mbbgsk42fdm0epsfg9rl@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa >><thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote in article >>><iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>>> Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>>> >>Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense. >>>> >>

    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.

    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become
    planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.

    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time
    documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of
    those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the
    wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as >>Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.

    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book
    would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.

    Roswell 1947 anyone?
    I was thinking more of a book on Revelation (read over the past few
    years as one of many such books inherited from my grandfather, who had
    an interest in the topic) that shows a /color/ (and so quite
    expensive) picture of a purported "flying saucer".
    It also claimed that, when Jesus talked about summoning legions of
    angels, those angels would space aliens from other planets. And
    similar tripe. Still, it was at least different from the others.
    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 02:46:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <3k6p7lde6c6kpidh6vu6spcumlaitq7j65@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 04:58:40 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <nbim7l9f4iitc0mbbgsk42fdm0epsfg9rl@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa >>><thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote in article >>>><iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>>>> Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>>>> >>Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense. >>>>> >>

    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.

    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become >>>planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.

    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time >>>documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of >>>those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the >>>wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as >>>Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.

    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book >>>would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.

    Roswell 1947 anyone?

    I was thinking more of a book on Revelation (read over the past few
    years as one of many such books inherited from my grandfather, who had
    an interest in the topic) that shows a /color/ (and so quite
    expensive) picture of a purported "flying saucer".

    It also claimed that, when Jesus talked about summoning legions of
    angels, those angels would space aliens from other planets. And
    similar tripe. Still, it was at least different from the others.

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it >everywhere.


    They say aliens are recall demons / fallen angels.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 22:26:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 13/08/2026 2:14 am, Paul S Person wrote:

    <Snip>

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it everywhere.

    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)
    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    Of course, one might expect that Scientific/Engeering developments back
    on E.T.'s home planet should have meant that the Jesus -> Muhammad cycle should have happened more quickly, maybe after only 200 - 300 years.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 12:47:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115kd6b$1kns4$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 2:14 am, Paul S Person wrote:

    <Snip>

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.

    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Maybe 4 BC.

    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    Of course, one might expect that Scientific/Engeering developments back
    on E.T.'s home planet should have meant that the Jesus -> Muhammad cycle >should have happened more quickly, maybe after only 200 - 300 years.
    --
    Daniel70
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Blueshirt@blueshirt@indigo.news to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 14:00:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho


    Daniel70 wrote:

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times.... and
    then returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before
    returning.

    Why didn't he just save time and phone home instead?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 09:19:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one around 1800 presumably?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 08:50:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 22:26:49 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 2:14 am, Paul S Person wrote:

    <Snip>

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.

    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)
    No. That is why the 20th century ran from 1901 to 2000. This caused a
    lot of confusion during the Millenium bug era.
    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    Of course, one might expect that Scientific/Engeering developments back
    on E.T.'s home planet should have meant that the Jesus -> Muhammad cycle >should have happened more quickly, maybe after only 200 - 300 years.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 08:53:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >around 1800 presumably?
    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...
    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BobbieSellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 12:27:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.

    Buddha had lots of students and later disciples after his lifetime
    who added to his teaching and conferred divinity where he had
    implied none. The isle Ceylon hosted Theravada Buddhism while
    the Continent of Asia became a hotbed of Mahayana Buddhism and
    sent evangelical minded Buddhists to Tibet, thru China, Korea
    and finally to Japan where it introduced reading and writing.
    The Japanese Buddhist cults rose to great power under the
    Japanese empire and into the Shogun-al years but with the
    Shogun Zen Buddhism became the main religion of the warrior
    class, the Samurai whose value to their lives was defined
    by their deaths. Shinto which is animism essentially is
    the religion which was led by the Emperor who performed
    essential rites.


    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.


    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one
    around 1800 presumably?

    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    You leave out the various Islamic and Jewish notables and messianic cult figures. There were quite a few.


    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Mother Shipton would be another.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day Saints
    would also fit the timing. And he was murdered which is part of
    the monotheistic pattern.

    I would rather fill in the space with the great chemists
    and physicists of the 17th, 18th and 19th and 20th Century.


    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.


    Of course it is totally ridiculous.
    But wait until my gospel of unlimited grace is published. ;^)

    bliss - study, practice, experience
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 09:20:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 2026-08-13 19:27:50 +0000, BobbieSellers said:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.

    And, if the mytcical Jesus ever existed in any way, he was supposedly
    born was around 20-21 April ... nowhere near the 25 December that the
    church hijacked Pagan rituals for the celebration.

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but lies and
    stupidity, the same as all the other religion idiocy.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Aug 13 19:20:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    And, if the mytcical Jesus ever existed in any way, he was supposedly
    born was around 20-21 April ... nowhere near the 25 December that the
    church hijacked Pagan rituals for the celebration.

    Nobody wants to celebrate a holiday in April. Plus, it would be too
    close to National Deep Dish Pizza day, and who wants pizza for Christmas?

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but lies and
    stupidity, the same as all the other religion idiocy.

    I don't care, as long as I get all of the tasty holiday foods. This
    weekend is the Feast of the Assumption and I am all ready for the
    stuffed peppers and honey figs. How can you turn down a religion with
    honeyed figs? And Buddha's birthday is right around the corner just
    in time for longan season.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 03:58:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <mppr7llp58e0ndude6j8mso8heuv0hsbqe@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 22:26:49 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    On 13/08/2026 2:14 am, Paul S Person wrote:

    <Snip>

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.

    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    No. That is why the 20th century ran from 1901 to 2000. This caused a
    lot of confusion during the Millenium bug era.


    Y2K .

    I recall that pain.

    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    Of course, one might expect that Scientific/Engeering developments back
    on E.T.'s home planet should have meant that the Jesus -> Muhammad cycle >>should have happened more quickly, maybe after only 200 - 300 years.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 04:34:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115l5rn$1uhj9$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.

    Buddha had lots of students and later disciples after his lifetime
    who added to his teaching and conferred divinity where he had
    implied none. The isle Ceylon hosted Theravada Buddhism while
    the Continent of Asia became a hotbed of Mahayana Buddhism and
    sent evangelical minded Buddhists to Tibet, thru China, Korea
    and finally to Japan where it introduced reading and writing.
    The Japanese Buddhist cults rose to great power under the
    Japanese empire and into the Shogun-al years but with the
    Shogun Zen Buddhism became the main religion of the warrior
    class, the Samurai whose value to their lives was defined
    by their deaths. Shinto which is animism essentially is
    the religion which was led by the Emperor who performed
    essential rites.


    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.


    4 bo. I am going by Luke.


    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >>> around 1800 presumably?

    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    You leave out the various Islamic and Jewish notables and messianic
    cult figures. There were quite a few.


    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Mother Shipton would be another.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day Saints
    would also fit the timing. And he was murdered which is part of
    the monotheistic pattern.

    I would rather fill in the space with the great chemists
    and physicists of the 17th, 18th and 19th and 20th Century.


    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.


    Of course it is totally ridiculous.
    But wait until my gospel of unlimited grace is published. ;^)

    bliss - study, practice, experience
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 04:43:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115lce3$20ohu$1@dont-email.me>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2026-08-13 19:27:50 +0000, BobbieSellers said:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>
    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.

    And, if the mytcical Jesus ever existed in any way, he was supposedly
    born was around 20-21 April ... nowhere near the 25 December that the
    church hijacked Pagan rituals for the celebration.

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but lies and
    stupidity, the same as all the other religion idiocy.


    Nothing mythical about Jesus.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 03:59:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <p0qr7lhfjeloc6965m8clhdq7chl8dgp4t@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>>Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>>E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >>around 1800 presumably?

    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.

    No wonder rasfw is such an active interesting place.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bruce@Bruce@guffaw.noneya to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.asshole.binky on Fri Aug 14 03:13:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Doctor wrote:

    No wonder rasfw is such an active interesting place.

    https://myimgs.org/image/H4i6AW6Y
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Blueshirt@blueshirt@indigo.news to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 10:07:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    Your Name wrote:

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but
    lies and stupidity,


    I'd go with...

    Bastardised history mixed-in with fantastic tales of mythic
    heroes and some fables for the weak-minded.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 21:37:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 21:50:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.

    Buddha had lots of students and later disciples after his lifetime
    who added to his teaching and conferred divinity where he had implied
    none.

    Did I dispute this??

    <Snip>

    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year
    Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date of his
    birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus Augustus reigned from
    16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14. The date of the birth of Jesus
    is not stated in the gospels or in any historical sources and the
    evidence is insufficient to allow for consistent dating. However,
    most biblical scholars and ancient historians believe that his birth
    date is around 6 to 4 BC.

    Thank you and, yes, I had read that Jesus might have been born in 4 B.C.


    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then
    returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200
    and one around 1800 presumably?

    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    You leave out the various Islamic and Jewish notables and messianic
    cult figures. There were quite a few.

    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Mother Shipton would be another.

    Pass .... Pass and Pass.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day Saints would
    also fit the timing.

    Aren't they, sort of, Christian??

    And he was murdered which is part of the monotheistic pattern.

    I would rather fill in the space with the great chemists and
    physicists of the 17th, 18th and 19th and 20th Century.

    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.

    Of course it is totally ridiculous. But wait until my gospel of
    unlimited grace is published. ;^)

    bliss - study, practice, experience
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 14:21:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <18cb9a942f24d6e6$164234$821642$22dd286e@news.thecubenet.com>,
    Bruce <Bruce@guffaw.noneya> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:

    No wonder rasfw is such an active interesting place.

    https://myimgs.org/image/H4i6AW6Y

    We don't need you here around these parts PaedoBruce.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 14:22:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <xn0ptidzfpneax6004@post.eweka.nl>,
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Your Name wrote:

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but
    lies and stupidity,


    I'd go with...

    Bastardised history mixed-in with fantastic tales of mythic
    heroes and some fables for the weak-minded.

    2 Hell bound trolls in a pod for for you.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 14:29:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one
    around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    You think?

    --
    Daniel70
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 14:32:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115mveo$2ghl0$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.

    Buddha had lots of students and later disciples after his lifetime
    who added to his teaching and conferred divinity where he had implied
    none.

    Did I dispute this??

    <Snip>

    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year
    Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date of his
    birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus Augustus reigned from
    16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14. The date of the birth of Jesus
    is not stated in the gospels or in any historical sources and the
    evidence is insufficient to allow for consistent dating. However,
    most biblical scholars and ancient historians believe that his birth
    date is around 6 to 4 BC.

    Thank you and, yes, I had read that Jesus might have been born in 4 B.C.


    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then
    returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200
    and one around 1800 presumably?

    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    You leave out the various Islamic and Jewish notables and messianic
    cult figures. There were quite a few.

    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Mother Shipton would be another.

    Pass .... Pass and Pass.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day Saints would
    also fit the timing.

    Aren't they, sort of, Christian??


    More of a cult.

    And he was murdered which is part of the monotheistic pattern.

    I would rather fill in the space with the great chemists and
    physicists of the 17th, 18th and 19th and 20th Century.

    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.

    Of course it is totally ridiculous. But wait until my gospel of
    unlimited grace is published. ;^)

    bliss - study, practice, experience

    --
    Daniel70
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 14:42:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of "perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    William Hyde
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BobbieSellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 12:31:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.


    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    William Hyde

    ` If Kage Baker had thought of it she would have made the Cathar fortress into a Dr.Zeus base hiding behind the religionists...
    Of course that is only my opinion and maybe she did since I seem to
    have missed the majority of that series volumes.

    bliss

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 16:57:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:


    `-a-a-a If Kage Baker had thought of it she would have made the Cathar fortress into a Dr.Zeus base hiding behind the religionists...
    -aOf course that is only my opinion and maybe she did since I seem to
    have missed the majority of that series volumes.

    So have I, though I liked the two I have read.

    So much to read ...


    William Hyde
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 17:21:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one
    around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be denounced at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut his hair.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 21:38:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115o0t0$1jb$1@panix2.panix.com:

    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year
    Zero??) Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then
    returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200
    and one around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be
    denounced at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut
    his hair. --scott

    ICE would have deported him to Zomboanga.
    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From scott@scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Aug 14 22:14:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >>> around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be denounced >at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut his hair.

    Well, Joe Smith made his mark; but then there were the
    Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate....

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 02:09:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115nnj6$2p4io$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, >represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >"perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.


    William Hyde
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 02:16:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115nqek$2q3ui$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.


    Do the wrds Holy Trinity mean anything to you?


    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    William Hyde

    ` If Kage Baker had thought of it she would have made the Cathar >fortress into a Dr.Zeus base hiding behind the religionists...
    Of course that is only my opinion and maybe she did since I seem to
    have missed the majority of that series volumes.

    bliss

    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 02:23:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <XnsB4A8B372396FBPantyheadPoorHouse@62.164.182.28>,
    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115o0t0$1jb$1@panix2.panix.com:

    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year
    Zero??) Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then
    returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200
    and one around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be
    denounced at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut
    his hair. --scott

    ICE would have deported him to Zomboanga.


    IYIO.

    You cannot hold down Jesus.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet >poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets >another asskicking from The One True Melissa
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 02:24:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <drMfS.18048$X0O7.6147@fx35.iad>,
    Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>>>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>>>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >>>> around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be denounced >>at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut his hair.

    Well, Joe Smith made his mark; but then there were the
    Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate....


    and a few other satanic occults out there.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bruce@Bruce@guffaw.noneya to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.asshole.binky on Sat Aug 15 04:26:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Binky Doctor wrote:

    Do the wrds


    That's not a word, dumb fuck.

    https://myimgs.org/image/joByyZGb
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 10:01:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

    You cannot hold down Jesus.

    Now, THAT would make a good refrain for a gospel song.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BobbieSellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 10:31:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>> in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.



    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Indeed.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 15:50:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115nnj6$2p4io$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save
    their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs
    with Charles Martel.

    William Hyde


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 01:37:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.a He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>> in, and died, some said of poison.a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 01:59:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115nnj6$2p4io$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>> in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save >their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of >Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs >with Charles Martel.

    William Hyde



    Thus the Spanish the Muslims off of Iberia.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Woodward@robertaw@drizzle.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Aug 15 21:58:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D|!az de Vivar (aka El
    Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.
    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. rCo-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 01:44:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>> in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.



    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Indeed.

    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 11:33:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save
    their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of
    Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs
    with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D|!az de Vivar (aka El >Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. >rCo-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 09:55:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>>> in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.
    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 09:57:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>> in, and died, some said of poison.a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.
    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.
    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 18:42:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <8qq38lta8h5f9u6hlitein1vmhvapg9lcu@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.-a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>>>> in, and died, some said of poison.-a Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    Cop out.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 18:43:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <9sq38lhiuee8gc0uue4r5ethms1u9mo62l@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >>><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>>> in, and died, some said of poison.a Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was >>>just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on >>>the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ... >>>confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each >individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.

    If it is propecised, it is done.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 15:50:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save >>> their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of
    Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs >>> with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D|a-!az de Vivar (aka El >> Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often
    change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory
    would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress
    it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war.

    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish
    coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BobbieSellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Aug 16 13:38:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.|e-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.|e-a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>>>> in, and died, some said of poison.|e-a Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.
    A particular strain of heresy, not mine, states that
    Mary was a temple virgin and thus open to sacred prostitution
    and that the father of Jesus was a Greek soldier.

    i also fail to believe in Original Sin or the Doctrine
    that through disobedience to divine orders, Eve or Zoe ate an
    apple by which she became aware of the difference between good
    and evil. I believe that people are naturally selfish and
    self-centered.
    As for Sin a former moon god of Babylon who was believed
    to be the father of all children he has been downgraded to the
    the alleged inconvenience caused to others by our selfish
    actions. Now I can readily understand how I by my actions and
    others can inconvenience myself and others but looking out
    upon the vast universe which G*d is alleged to be responsible
    for I doubt very much that my actions could ever bother
    that deity in the slightest. So I doubt that any order against
    eating from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge could
    bother that One.

    I believe that doctrine of Original Sin is the merest patriarchal invention to help ensure the subjection of women
    to male authority.

    Remember that I believe in evolution and that original
    state of womankind and man was ignorance. Stories were invented
    to explain anything of interest as soon as homo sapiens or homo
    sapiens sapiens evolved/invented language. These stories if
    they satisfied some need were repeated through oral recitation.

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    bliss - study, practice, experience.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 03:41:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115t4ar$eqpr$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save >>>> their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they >>>> had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of >>>> Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs >>>> with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D|a-!az de Vivar (aka El >>> Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often
    change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France >weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory
    would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress >it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war.

    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish
    coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this >because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde


    Ever read Doctor Who : The Massacre of St. Bartholomew?
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 03:44:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115t73h$fouh$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of
    Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, >>>>>>> represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.|e-a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>>>> increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.|e-a He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.|e-a Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.
    A particular strain of heresy, not mine, states that
    Mary was a temple virgin and thus open to sacred prostitution
    and that the father of Jesus was a Greek soldier.

    i also fail to believe in Original Sin or the Doctrine
    that through disobedience to divine orders, Eve or Zoe ate an
    apple by which she became aware of the difference between good
    and evil. I believe that people are naturally selfish and
    self-centered.
    As for Sin a former moon god of Babylon who was believed
    to be the father of all children he has been downgraded to the
    the alleged inconvenience caused to others by our selfish
    actions. Now I can readily understand how I by my actions and
    others can inconvenience myself and others but looking out
    upon the vast universe which G*d is alleged to be responsible
    for I doubt very much that my actions could ever bother
    that deity in the slightest. So I doubt that any order against
    eating from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge could
    bother that One.

    I believe that doctrine of Original Sin is the merest patriarchal
    invention to help ensure the subjection of women
    to male authority.

    Remember that I believe in evolution and that original
    state of womankind and man was ignorance. Stories were invented
    to explain anything of interest as soon as homo sapiens or homo
    sapiens sapiens evolved/invented language. These stories if
    they satisfied some need were repeated through oral recitation.

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    bliss - study, practice, experience.

    Never read Luk1 , Luk2 and Matthew 1 with an analytical mind I see.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 20:41:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Blueshirt@blueshirt@indigo.news to rec.arts.drwho on Mon Aug 17 11:06:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    Daniel70 wrote:

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    Churches obviously. Where misguided/lonely people go to pray...
    and be seen so the neighbours don't talk about them. Surely you
    have more than one church in Melbourne? Edmonton in Canada has
    to be the same.

    We have plenty around here, I'm not sure if there's seven
    though.

    <starts counting>

    One is down the road in the village, our local church... the
    next one is a few miles further down the main road in the parish
    of UpYerBum. If you turn right at the junction with the big tree
    on the left, there's a smaller church down there in
    SweatyTitsVille... if you'd gone right at the junction instead
    that would eventually bring you to the village of MeBollix,
    there's another church there... there was also a church in the
    nearby town of BallyBigCock... but I think Satanists blew that
    one up... so how many is that? Four. Oh. Maybe we don't have
    seven so...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 14:37:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115uoho$trf9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky(Word used by paedophiles to indicate their joy of child sexual molestation)??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    The seven churches Paul writes to in Asia minor now modern day Turkey.

    --
    Daniel70
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho on Mon Aug 17 14:44:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <xn0ptmn3w2mux2d00c@post.eweka.nl>,
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    Churches obviously. Where misguided/lonely people go to pray...
    and be seen so the neighbours don't talk about them. Surely you
    have more than one church in Melbourne? Edmonton in Canada has
    to be the same.

    We have plenty around here, I'm not sure if there's seven
    though.

    <starts counting>

    One is down the road in the village, our local church... the
    next one is a few miles further down the main road in the parish
    of UpYerBum. If you turn right at the junction with the big tree
    on the left, there's a smaller church down there in
    SweatyTitsVille... if you'd gone right at the junction instead
    that would eventually bring you to the village of MeBollix,
    there's another church there... there was also a church in the
    nearby town of BallyBigCock... but I think Satanists blew that
    one up... so how many is that? Four. Oh. Maybe we don't have
    seven so...

    Youu really hanve no sanity BlueShirt.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 09:05:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>
    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.
    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.
    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.
    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man
    holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ...
    always.
    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".
    <snippo as much babbling as possible>
    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.
    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.
    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.
    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.
    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.
    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.
    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".
    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>
    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 09:15:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 18:43:34 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <9sq38lhiuee8gc0uue4r5ethms1u9mo62l@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >>>><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, >>>>>> represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.a Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>>the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the >>>>Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>>>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was >>>>just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on >>>>the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ... >>>>confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each >>individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.

    If it is propecised, it is done.
    Well, yes, but is it? Or is "prophesy" merely a (very popular)
    interpretation? Which may be in error, who can say?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 09:17:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:37:28 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <115uoho$trf9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky(Word used by paedophiles to indicate their joy of child sexual molestation)??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    The seven churches Paul writes to in Asia minor now modern day Turkey.
    Jesus did the writing, but otherwise you are correct.
    The letters are found in the first few chapters of Revelation.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From BobbieSellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 09:21:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ... always.

    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    hierarchical order is most clearly experienced not only in religion but
    in the Military organizations.


    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.

    I am not even classy, much less Classical in any sense.


    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    And Thea was earlier, the Goddess Themis representing law and ordered society

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.

    Who cares about fitting into any system, Eris is a metaphor for the disputatious nature of mankind. She is, recall, the Goddess who tossed
    the golden apple to Paris to be awarded to the most beautiful of
    the Goddesses there assembled which sparked the Trojan War.

    Since she is female she is another patriarchal scapegoat as well. Men are always blaming women for their own sexual drives and disputes.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 16:32:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <30b68l9a00pb513nuev6c1aphtvmnmsr8h@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man >holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ... >always.

    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and >"civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.


    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.

    gods and goddesses are false deities.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
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  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 16:33:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <tbc68l154vev3a5qne9p7b5d6bbduhbkis@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 18:43:34 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <9sq38lhiuee8gc0uue4r5ethms1u9mo62l@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >>>>><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of
    Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, >>>>>>> represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.a If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>>>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.a He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.a Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>>>the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the >>>>>Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>>>>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was >>>>>just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on >>>>>the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ... >>>>>confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each >>>individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.

    If it is propecised, it is done.

    Well, yes, but is it? Or is "prophesy" merely a (very popular) >interpretation? Which may be in error, who can say?

    Thell me which propesies of the Bile are false?

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
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  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 16:34:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <2uc68llq60gke281jbd7ing1it6rvq4uvo@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:37:28 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115uoho$trf9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky(Word used by paedophiles
    to indicate their joy of child sexual molestation)??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    The seven churches Paul writes to in Asia minor now modern day Turkey.

    Jesus did the writing, but otherwise you are correct.

    The letters are found in the first few chapters of Revelation.

    REcall John See jesus throughout all of this.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Aug 17 16:35:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho

    In article <115vceb$14ss4$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man
    holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ...
    always.

    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and
    "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    hierarchical order is most clearly experienced not only in religion but
    in the Military organizations.


    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.

    I am not even classy, much less Classical in any sense.


    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    And Thea was earlier, the Goddess Themis representing law and ordered
    society

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.

    Who cares about fitting into any system, Eris is a metaphor for the
    disputatious nature of mankind. She is, recall, the Goddess who tossed
    the golden apple to Paris to be awarded to the most beautiful of
    the Goddesses there assembled which sparked the Trojan War.

    Since she is female she is another patriarchal scapegoat as well. Men
    are always blaming women for their own sexual drives and disputes.



    We had one Eris worshhpier named Clyton Edward Mcgill here.

    He ended up being another Tin Bruening.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; 31 years in the ISP business!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2