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  • Hurin of the Keys

    From Louis Epstein@le@main.lekno.ws to alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien on Mon Aug 14 04:09:29 2023
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    It has been my presumption that he was the heir presumptive to the Stewardship after Faramir,who I assume was a cousin
    (of course Faramir had descendants so Hurin never succeeded).

    Denethor however was despairing of his line having failed (which would imply no cousins at all if he meant
    that broadly).

    Anyone else have thoughts?

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  • From dont.spam.usenet@dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com (Hauke Fath) to alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien on Sun Aug 20 00:23:15 2023
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

    It has been my presumption that he was the heir presumptive to the Stewardship after Faramir, who I assume was a cousin (of course Faramir had descendants so Hurin never succeeded).

    Denethor however was despairing of his line having failed (which would
    imply no cousins at all if he meant that broadly).

    I very much read his despair as about Gondor.

    After a long life experiencing slow decline, and after what Sauron let
    him see in the palantir when he unwisely turned to it, this was not a
    wholly unreasonable outlook.

    Cheerio,
    Hauke
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  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien on Sun Aug 20 08:41:35 2023
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 04:09:29 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
    It has been my presumption that he was the heir presumptive to the Stewardship after Faramir,who I assume was a cousin
    (of course Faramir had descendants so Hurin never succeeded).

    Denethor however was despairing of his line having failed (which would imply no cousins at all if he meant
    that broadly).

    Anyone else have thoughts?
    Perhaps I am mis-understanding you a bit here, but <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faramir> reminds us that:
    Faramir is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the
    Rings. He is introduced as the younger brother of Boromir of the
    Fellowship of the Ring and second son of Denethor, the Steward of
    Gondor.
    As another has pointed out (I am sure you know all this very well,
    BTW) Denethor was discouraged by his use of the Palantir. He also very
    much wanted Boromir to succeed him, and the failure of his line
    expressed his feelings about the fact that Faramir would succeed him
    instead.
    As to Hurin of the Keys, I don't see a Wikipedia article, although
    there are several fan-based sources. Which may or may not be about the
    books. One of them suggest that he was high-born, but, given the
    nature of the society that should pretty much go without saying. And
    the "high-born" probably were all cousins (of some sort) by this time.
    Well, unless he slew a dragon or did something equally impressive and
    was elevated even though base-born as a result, of course.
    --
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    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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