From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

I understand the frustration behind this report. Audio failures are difficult because the symptom is simple, a bad sound, while the cause can exist anywhere from the driver to the application. When the system provides no useful indication of where the failure occurred, debugging becomes guesswork.

I have encountered this same class of problem while working on audio software. Awase started from the same motivation: I wanted an audio system that I could understand, control, and improve when something went wrong. It is intended to become a replacement for existing desktop audio stacks, but it is still in the early alpha stage. semasound handles audio processing and playback. audiofs handles audio asset access. The separation is deliberate because systems are easier to maintain when their responsibilities and failure boundaries are clear.

This does not solve the specific FreeBSD regression you describe today. A new design still has to mature, gain users, and prove itself. However, it represents one possible response to the larger problem: when existing solutions become too difficult to debug or modify, building a simpler system can be a practical path forward.

The immediate problem remains localization. The important question is not whether the fault is OSS or PulseAudio in isolation. The important question is where the failure first appears. The investigation should narrow the path. Test direct device output. Test through user-space layers. Compare players. Compare releases. Each result removes another possibility.

The recording is valuable because it demonstrates that the failure exists. It gives developers something concrete to reproduce. The next step is to gather enough information to identify the responsible component.

I do not know whether the cause is related to how many developers use FreeBSD as a desktop system. There may be several contributing factors, including how desktop issues are prioritized and who takes ownership of them. I do know that regressions on common hardware deserve attention. A ThinkPad T480 is not an unusual machine. A desktop operating system depends on predictable behavior after upgrades.

The goal is not a system that never fails. That is unrealistic. The goal is a system where failures leave enough evidence that they can be understood and fixed.

-vic


On Mon, Jul 20, 2026, at 09:04, vermaden wrote:

Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but
to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined -
this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options -
keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but
not anymore.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get
broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE
would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related
things.

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05

... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can
not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is
PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in
the logs for audio.

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com'
account here:
- https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file

... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad
T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.

I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of
despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have
been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the
issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop system.

Sorry to disappoint.

Regards,
vermaden

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Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. That's also mine. Because I'm trying
to fix the audio distorsions coming from the 4 inches display that I want
to use in the FreeBSD based phone that I'm building. I'm working with
Claude and I'm spending a lot of tokens asking Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report after report,it seems very hard to obtain a clean and robust sound.
I imagine how hard it is to do it without using advanced AI.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:55=E2=80=AFAM <vester.thacker@fastmail.fm> wrote=
:

I understand the frustration behind this report. Audio failures are
difficult because the symptom is simple, a bad sound, while the cause can exist anywhere from the driver to the application. When the system provid=

es

no useful indication of where the failure occurred, debugging becomes guesswork.

I have encountered this same class of problem while working on audio software. Awase started from the same motivation: I wanted an audio syste=

m

that I could understand, control, and improve when something went wrong. =

It

is intended to become a replacement for existing desktop audio stacks, bu=

t

it is still in the early alpha stage. semasound handles audio processing
and playback. audiofs handles audio asset access. The separation is deliberate because systems are easier to maintain when their
responsibilities and failure boundaries are clear.

This does not solve the specific FreeBSD regression you describe today. A
new design still has to mature, gain users, and prove itself. However, it represents one possible response to the larger problem: when existing solutions become too difficult to debug or modify, building a simpler
system can be a practical path forward.

The immediate problem remains localization. The important question is not whether the fault is OSS or PulseAudio in isolation. The important questi=

on

is where the failure first appears. The investigation should narrow the
path. Test direct device output. Test through user-space layers. Compare players. Compare releases. Each result removes another possibility.

The recording is valuable because it demonstrates that the failure exists=

.

It gives developers something concrete to reproduce. The next step is to gather enough information to identify the responsible component.

I do not know whether the cause is related to how many developers use
FreeBSD as a desktop system. There may be several contributing factors, including how desktop issues are prioritized and who takes ownership of
them. I do know that regressions on common hardware deserve attention. A ThinkPad T480 is not an unusual machine. A desktop operating system depen=

ds

on predictable behavior after upgrades.

The goal is not a system that never fails. That is unrealistic. The goal
is a system where failures leave enough evidence that they can be
understood and fixed.

-vic

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026, at 09:04, vermaden wrote:

Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but
to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined -
this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options -
keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but
not anymore.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get
broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE
would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related
things.

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into thi=

s:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05

... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can
not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is
PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in
the logs for audio.

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com'
account here:
-

https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4=

/file

... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad
T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.

I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of
despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have
been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the
issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop system.

Sorry to disappoint.

Regards,
vermaden

--=20
Mario.

--00000000000085af870657085d7c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. That&#39;s also mine=
. Because I&#39;m trying to fix the audio distorsions coming from the 4 inc= hes display that I want to use in the FreeBSD based phone that I&#39;m buil= ding. I&#39;m working with Claude and I&#39;m spending a lot of tokens aski=
ng Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report after report,it seems very hard to o= btain a clean and robust sound. I imagine how hard it is to do it without u= sing advanced AI.=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_cont= ainer"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:55= =E2=80=AFAM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vester.thacker@fastmail.fm">vester.thacke= r@fastmail.fm</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= ng-left:1ex">I understand the frustration behind this report. Audio failure=
s are difficult because the symptom is simple, a bad sound, while the cause=
can exist anywhere from the driver to the application. When the system pro= vides no useful indication of where the failure occurred, debugging becomes=
guesswork.<br>

I have encountered this same class of problem while working on audio softwa= re. Awase started from the same motivation: I wanted an audio system that I=
could understand, control, and improve when something went wrong. It is in= tended to become a replacement for existing desktop audio stacks, but it is=
still in the early alpha stage. semasound handles audio processing and pla= yback. audiofs handles audio asset access. The separation is deliberate bec= ause systems are easier to maintain when their responsibilities and failure=
boundaries are clear.<br>

This does not solve the specific FreeBSD regression you describe today. A n=
ew design still has to mature, gain users, and prove itself. However, it re= presents one possible response to the larger problem: when existing solutio=
ns become too difficult to debug or modify, building a simpler system can b=
e a practical path forward.<br>

The immediate problem remains localization. The important question is not w= hether the fault is OSS or PulseAudio in isolation. The important question =
is where the failure first appears. The investigation should narrow the pat=
h. Test direct device output. Test through user-space layers. Compare playe= rs. Compare releases. Each result removes another possibility.<br>

The recording is valuable because it demonstrates that the failure exists. =
It gives developers something concrete to reproduce. The next step is to ga= ther enough information to identify the responsible component.<br>

I do not know whether the cause is related to how many developers use FreeB=
SD as a desktop system. There may be several contributing factors, includin=
g how desktop issues are prioritized and who takes ownership of them. I do = know that regressions on common hardware deserve attention. A ThinkPad T480=
is not an unusual machine. A desktop operating system depends on predictab=
le behavior after upgrades.<br>

The goal is not a system that never fails. That is unrealistic. The goal is=
a system where failures leave enough evidence that they can be understood = and fixed.<br>

-vic<br>


On Mon, Jul 20, 2026, at 09:04, vermaden wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but=

&gt; to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - =

&gt; this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - <=

&gt; keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all =

&gt; ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but=

&gt; not anymore.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get <b=

&gt; broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE <b=

&gt; would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related <br> &gt; things.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into th= is:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But these random &#39;boozing&#39; sounds are just unacceptable ... an=
d I can <br>
&gt; not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is <br>
&gt; PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in =

&gt; the logs for audio.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Its also possible to get that file from my personal &#39;<a href=3D"ht= tp://mediafire.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">mediafire.com</a>&= #39; <br>
&gt; account here:<br>
&gt; - <br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-a= udio-sound.mp4/file" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mediafire= .com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad <b=

&gt; T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth a=
s <br>
&gt; Carlos Sainz &#39;smooth operator&#39; in Singapore GP ... but not any= more.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of <br> &gt; despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have =

&gt; been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the <=

&gt; issue that &#39;too less&#39; FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their = daily <br>
&gt; driver/desktop/laptop system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sorry to disappoint.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; vermaden<br>

</blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_si= gnature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Ma= rio.<br></div>

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Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress, spons= ored by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But this should have been merged in one c= ommit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep=2E I personally fix=
the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I don't know wh=
at changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework is now massiv= e=2E

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code under = sys/sound from FreeBSD 13=2Ex and use it under 15=2E0, with minor tweaks in=
the source tree=2E

Regards,

Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia=2Epl> a = =C3=A9crit :

Hi=2E

For a start lets define some TERMS=2E I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but =

to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this =
is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that i=
n mind - now - to the core of the issue =2E=2E=2E

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALS= A/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world =2E=2E=2E but n=

ot anymore=2E

Somewhere between 14=2E3-RELEASE and 14=2E4-RELEASE things begin to get b= roken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15=2E1-RELEASE would = solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things=2E

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol=2Evolume=3D+0=2E05

=2E=2E=2E from MUCH MORE friendly syntax=2E

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable =2E=2E=2E and I c=

an not even tell where they came from =2E=2E=2E is it OSS problem? Is is Pu= lseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the log=
s for audio=2E

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire=2Ecom' acc= ount here:
- https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound= =2Emp4/file

=2E=2E=2E and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday =2E=2E=2E its a Th= inkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth=

as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP =2E=2E=2E but not anymor= e=2E

I do not even know what to add here =2E=2E=2E its a message send our of d= espair =2E=2E=2E as newer releases only made these things worse =2E=2E=2E I=

have been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the = issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/= desktop/laptop system=2E

Sorry to disappoint=2E

Regards,
vermaden

------OTD9RWHGNM2CE8CBZ4TCIX4P6LXYU7
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<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, afaik there is a hudge rewor=
k of the sound subsystem in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation=
=2E But this should have been merged in one commit and not in small steps, = because changes seem deep=2E I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is w= orking on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I don't know what changes will be merged/have=
been merged because the rework is now massive=2E<br><br>At worst, waiting = until this job is achieved, you can take the code under sys/sound from Free= BSD 13=2Ex and use it under 15=2E0, with minor tweaks in the source tree=2E= <br><br>Regards,</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">=
Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden &lt;vermaden@interia=2Epl&g=
t; a =C3=A9crit :</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left=
: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"com-fsck-k9__plain-text-message-pre"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi=2E= <br><br>For a start lets define some TERMS=2E I use UPPERCASE not to shout =
- but to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined -=
this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep = that in mind - now - to the core of the issue =2E=2E=2E<br><br>I always con= sidered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/P= ipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world =2E=2E=2E but not anymore=2E<= br><br>Somewhere between 14=2E3-RELEASE and 14=2E4-RELEASE things begin to = get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15=2E1-RELEASE w= ould solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things=2E<= br><br>I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into = this:<br><br>% mixer -f ${DEV} vol=2Evolume=3D+0=2E05<br><br>=2E=2E=2E from=
MUCH MORE friendly syntax=2E<br><br>But these random 'boozing' sounds are = just unacceptable =2E=2E=2E and I can not even tell where they came from = =2E=2E=2E is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio problem? Something in between=
? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio=2E<br><br>Its also possibl=
e to get that file from my personal 'mediafire=2Ecom' account here:<br>- <a=
href=3D"https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-= sound=2Emp4/file">https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-trag= ic-audio-sound=2Emp4/file</a><br><br>=2E=2E=2E and its not some fancy lapto=
p from yesterday =2E=2E=2E its a ThinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - ha= rdware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Si= ngapore GP =2E=2E=2E but not anymore=2E<br><br>I do not even know what to a=
dd here =2E=2E=2E its a message send our of despair =2E=2E=2E as newer rele= ases only made these things worse =2E=2E=2E I have been repeating this over=
and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too less' FreeBSD = developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop system=2E<br><b= r>Sorry to disappoint=2E<br><br>Regards,<br>vermaden<br><br><br></div></pre= ></blockquote></div></body></html>
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Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound subsystem in progress,

sponsored >by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged in
one commit and >not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I personally
fix the MIDI part so >that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I don't know
what changes will be merged/>have been merged because the rework is now massive.

Is that code valid also for ARM64 bit ?

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM np <dev@nicolas-provost.fr> wrote:

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged in
one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I personall=

y

fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I don't know what changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework is now massive.

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13.x and use it under 15.0, with minor tweaks in t=

he

source tree.

Regards,

Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but t=

o underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this i=
s plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in=
mind - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all AL= SA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not an= ymore.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get brok=

en - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve=
my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things.

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this=

:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05

... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can no=

t even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio pr= oblem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio=
.

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' acco= unt here:
- https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.= mp4/file

... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480=

from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos = Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.

I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despai=

r ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repeat= ing this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too l= ess' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop sy= stem.

Sorry to disappoint.

Regards,
vermaden

--=20
Mario.

--0000000000001201d1065709e35f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&gt;Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound sub= system in progress,=20
sponsored &gt;by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged i=
n
one commit and &gt;not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I=20 personally fix the MIDI part so &gt;that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but=
I
don&#39;t know what changes will be merged/&gt;have been merged because th= e=20
rework is now massive.</div><div><br></div><div>Is that code valid also for=
ARM64 bit ?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container= "><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2=80= =AFPM np &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dev@nicolas-provost.fr">dev@nicolas-provost.= fr</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= "><div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound sub= system in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should ha=
ve been merged in one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem d= eep. I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, = but I don&#39;t know what changes will be merged/have been merged because t=
he rework is now massive.<br><br>At worst, waiting until this job is achiev= ed, you can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13.x and use it unde=
r 15.0, with minor tweaks in the source tree.<br><br>Regards,</div><br><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GM= T+02:00, vermaden &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vermaden@interia.pl" target=3D"_bla= nk">vermaden@interia.pl</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</div><blockquote class=3D"gm= ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,= 204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<pre><div dir=3D"auto">Hi.<br><br>For a start lets define some TERMS. I use=
UPPERCASE not to shout - but to underline a part of the sentence that is n= eeded to be underlined - this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscor= e/Italic options - keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...<b= r><br>I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all=
ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not=
anymore.<br><br>Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things beg=
in to get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEA=
SE would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things= .<br><br>I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went int=
o this:<br><br>% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05<br><br>... from MUCH MO=
RE friendly syntax.<br><br>But these random &#39;boozing&#39; sounds are ju=
st unacceptable ... and I can not even tell where they came from ... is it = OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there =
is NOTHING in the logs for audio.<br><br>Its also possible to get that file=
from my personal &#39;<a href=3D"http://mediafire.com" target=3D"_blank">m= ediafire.com</a>&#39; account here:<br>- <a href=3D"https://mediafire.com/f= ile/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file" target=3D"_blank">= https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/f= ile</a><br><br>... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a T= hinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smoot=
h as Carlos Sainz &#39;smooth operator&#39; in Singapore GP ... but not any= more.<br><br>I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our=
of despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have b= een repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue t= hat &#39;too less&#39; FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver= /desktop/laptop system.<br><br>Sorry to disappoint.<br><br>Regards,<br>verm= aden<br><br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><di= v><br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </s= pan><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div>

--0000000000001201d1065709e35f--


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charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but targeted cards are mostly r= ather old PCI ones=2E I did not change any USB-audio code, which seems to w= ork at least on FreeBSD 13=2Ex but is using its own MIDI implementation, be= cause the official MIDI sub-system was broken=2E You can see these changes = here (wip): https://github=2Ecom/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all

Le 20 juillet 2026 14:16:38 GMT+02:00, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail= =2Ecom> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound subsystem in progress, >sponsored >by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But this should have been merged =

in

one commit and >not in small steps, because changes seem deep=2E I person= ally
fix the MIDI part so >that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I don't k=

now

what changes will be merged/>have been merged because the rework is now >massive=2E

Is that code valid also for ARM64 bit ?

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM np <dev@nicolas-provost=2Efr> wro=

te:

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress,
sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But this should have been merged=

in

one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep=2E I perso= nally
fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I don't = know
what changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework is now
massive=2E

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code und=

er

sys/sound from FreeBSD 13=2Ex and use it under 15=2E0, with minor tweak=

s in the

source tree=2E

Regards,


Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia=2Epl>=

a

=C3=A9crit :

Hi=2E

For a start lets define some TERMS=2E I use UPPERCASE not to shout - b=

ut to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - th=
is is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep tha=
t in mind - now - to the core of the issue =2E=2E=2E

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all = ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world =2E=2E=2E bu=

t not anymore=2E

Somewhere between 14=2E3-RELEASE and 14=2E4-RELEASE things begin to ge=

t broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15=2E1-RELEASE wou=
ld solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things=2E

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into th=

is:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol=2Evolume=3D+0=2E05

=2E=2E=2E from MUCH MORE friendly syntax=2E

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable =2E=2E=2E and =

I can not even tell where they came from =2E=2E=2E is it OSS problem? Is is=
PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the = logs for audio=2E

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire=2Ecom' = account here:
- https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-so= und=2Emp4/file

=2E=2E=2E and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday =2E=2E=2E its a=

ThinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smo= oth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP =2E=2E=2E but not any= more=2E

I do not even know what to add here =2E=2E=2E its a message send our o=

f despair =2E=2E=2E as newer releases only made these things worse =2E=2E=
=2E I have been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably=
the issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily dr= iver/desktop/laptop system=2E

Sorry to disappoint=2E

Regards,
vermaden

--=20
Mario=2E

------47PVUPGKYFDJX6T592D78D3CUPLP4Z
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">Concerning MIDI, this is not arc= h-dependent but targeted cards are mostly rather old PCI ones=2E I did not = change any USB-audio code, which seems to work at least on FreeBSD 13=2Ex b=
ut is using its own MIDI implementation, because the official MIDI sub-syst=
em was broken=2E You can see these changes here (wip): <a href=3D"https://g= ithub=2Ecom/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all">https://github=2Ecom/n-p-so= ft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all</a></div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Le 20 juillet 2026 14:16:38 GMT+02:00, Mario Marietto &lt;m= arietto2008@gmail=2Ecom&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204=
, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&gt;Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound su= bsystem in progress,=20
sponsored &gt;by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But this should have been merge=
d in
one commit and &gt;not in small steps, because changes seem deep=2E I=20 personally fix the MIDI part so &gt;that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, =
but I
don't know what changes will be merged/&gt;have been merged because the=
=20
rework is now massive=2E</div><div><br></div><div>Is that code valid also =
for ARM64 bit ?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_contai= ner"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2= =80=AFPM np &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dev@nicolas-provost=2Efr">dev@nicolas-pro= vost=2Efr</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=2E8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= ng-left:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of th=
e sound subsystem in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But t= his should have been merged in one commit and not in small steps, because c= hanges seem deep=2E I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on=
FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I don't know what changes will be merged/have been mer= ged because the rework is now massive=2E<br><br>At worst, waiting until thi=
s job is achieved, you can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13=2E=
x and use it under 15=2E0, with minor tweaks in the source tree=2E<br><br>R= egards,</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 20 jui= llet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vermaden@inter= ia=2Epl" target=3D"_blank">vermaden@interia=2Epl</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</di= v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex;bor= der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<pre><div dir=3D"auto">Hi=2E<br><br>For a start lets define some TERMS=2E =
I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to underline a part of the sentence that=
is needed to be underlined - this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Unde= rscore/Italic options - keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue = =2E=2E=2E<br><br>I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem supe= rior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world = =2E=2E=2E but not anymore=2E<br><br>Somewhere between 14=2E3-RELEASE and 14= =2E4-RELEASE things begin to get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest = and greatest 15=2E1-RELEASE would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of s= ound/audio related things=2E<br><br>I will not even start about PITA syntax=
of mixer(1) which went into this:<br><br>% mixer -f ${DEV} vol=2Evolume=3D= +0=2E05<br><br>=2E=2E=2E from MUCH MORE friendly syntax=2E<br><br>But these=
random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable =2E=2E=2E and I can not even=
tell where they came from =2E=2E=2E is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio pr= oblem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio= =2E<br><br>Its also possible to get that file from my personal '<a href=3D"= http://mediafire=2Ecom" target=3D"_blank">mediafire=2Ecom</a>' account here= :<br>- <a href=3D"https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-trag= ic-audio-sound=2Emp4/file" target=3D"_blank">https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/j= w3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound=2Emp4/file</a><br><br>=2E=2E=2E a=
nd its not some fancy laptop from yesterday =2E=2E=2E its a ThinkPad T480 f= rom 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sa= inz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP =2E=2E=2E but not anymore=2E<br><br>I=
do not even know what to add here =2E=2E=2E its a message send our of desp= air =2E=2E=2E as newer releases only made these things worse =2E=2E=2E I ha=
ve been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the iss=
ue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/des= ktop/laptop system=2E<br><br>Sorry to disappoint=2E<br><br>Regards,<br>verm= aden<br><br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><di= v><br clear=3D"all"></div></blockquote></div></body></html> ------47PVUPGKYFDJX6T592D78D3CUPLP4Z--



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Please direct questions, flames, donations, etc. to news-admin@muc.de
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

--000000000000ad125c06570a603a
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but targeted cards are mostly rather >old PCI ones. I did not change any USB-audio code, which seems to

work at least >on FreeBSD 13.x but is using its own MIDI implementation, because the official >MIDI sub-system was broken. You can see these changes here (wip): https://>github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all <https://github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all>

Hip Hip Hurra',

I want to inform everyone that I'm happy because me and Claude have been
able to fix the HDMI sound of my FreeBSD phone in a very good way. Now it
plays better than in Linux. Never surrender.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:33=E2=80=AFPM np <dev@nicolas-provost.fr> wrote:

Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but targeted cards are mostly rather old PCI ones. I did not change any USB-audio code, which seems to
work at least on FreeBSD 13.x but is using its own MIDI implementation, because the official MIDI sub-system was broken. You can see these change=

s

here (wip): https://github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all

Le 20 juillet 2026 14:16:38 GMT+02:00, Mario Marietto < marietto2008@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound subsystem in progress,

sponsored >by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged i=

n

one commit and >not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I persona= lly
fix the MIDI part so >that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I don't kn=

ow

what changes will be merged/>have been merged because the rework is now
massive.

Is that code valid also for ARM64 bit ?

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM np <dev@nicolas-provost.fr> wrot=

e:

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress,
sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged i=

n

one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I persona= lly
fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I don't kn=

ow

what changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework is now
massive.

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code
under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13.x and use it under 15.0, with minor twe= aks
in the source tree.

Regards,


Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> a
=C3=A9crit :

Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but=

to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this=
is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that =
in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all = ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not = anymore.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get br= oken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would sol=

ve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things.

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into th= is:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05

... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can = not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio = problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for aud= io.

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' ac= count here:
- https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-soun= d.mp4/file

... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T4=

80 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlo=
s Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.

I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of desp= air ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repe= ating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too=

less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop = system.

Sorry to disappoint.

Regards,
vermaden

--=20
Mario.

--000000000000ad125c06570a603a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&gt;Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but t= argeted cards are=20
mostly rather &gt;old PCI ones. I did not change any USB-audio code, which=
=20
seems to work at least &gt;on FreeBSD 13.x but is using its own MIDI=20 implementation, because the official &gt;MIDI sub-system was broken. You ca=
n
see these changes here (wip): <a href=3D"https://github.com/n-p-soft/freeb= sd-src/tree/midi-all" target=3D"_blank">https://&gt;github.com/n-p-soft/fre= ebsd-src/tree/midi-all</a></div><div><br></div><div>Hip Hip Hurra&#39;,</di= v><div><br></div><div>I want to inform everyone that I&#39;m happy because =
me and Claude have been able to fix the HDMI sound of my FreeBSD phone in a=
very good way. Now it plays better than in Linux. Never surrender.=C2=A0</= div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"= ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:33=E2=80=AFPM np &lt;<a=
href=3D"mailto:dev@nicolas-provost.fr">dev@nicolas-provost.fr</a>&gt; wrot= e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir= =3D"auto">Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but targeted cards ar=
e mostly rather old PCI ones. I did not change any USB-audio code, which se= ems to work at least on FreeBSD 13.x but is using its own MIDI implementati= on, because the official MIDI sub-system was broken. You can see these chan= ges here (wip): <a href=3D"https://github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/mid= i-all" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-= all</a></div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 20 jui= llet 2026 14:16:38 GMT+02:00, Mario Marietto &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:marietto= 2008@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>&gt; a =C3=A9cr=
it :</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&gt;Hi, afaik there is a huge rework of the sound sub= system in progress,=20
sponsored &gt;by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged i=
n
one commit and &gt;not in small steps, because changes seem deep. I=20 personally fix the MIDI part so &gt;that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but=
I
don&#39;t know what changes will be merged/&gt;have been merged because th= e=20
rework is now massive.</div><div><br></div><div>Is that code valid also for=
ARM64 bit ?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla= ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM np &lt;<a href=3D= "mailto:dev@nicolas-provost.fr" target=3D"_blank">dev@nicolas-provost.fr</a= >&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di= v><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsyste=
m in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have be=
en merged in one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep. =
I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I=
don&#39;t know what changes will be merged/have been merged because the re= work is now massive.<br><br>At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, y=
ou can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13.x and use it under 15.=
0, with minor tweaks in the source tree.<br><br>Regards,</div><br><br><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 20 juillet 2026 02:04:25 GMT+02:= 00, vermaden &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vermaden@interia.pl" target=3D"_blank">v= ermaden@interia.pl</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2= 04);padding-left:1ex">
<pre><div dir=3D"auto">Hi.<br><br>For a start lets define some TERMS. I use=
UPPERCASE not to shout - but to underline a part of the sentence that is n= eeded to be underlined - this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscor= e/Italic options - keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...<b= r><br>I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all=
ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not=
anymore.<br><br>Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things beg=
in to get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEA=
SE would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things= .<br><br>I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went int=
o this:<br><br>% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05<br><br>... from MUCH MO=
RE friendly syntax.<br><br>But these random &#39;boozing&#39; sounds are ju=
st unacceptable ... and I can not even tell where they came from ... is it = OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there =
is NOTHING in the logs for audio.<br><br>Its also possible to get that file=
from my personal &#39;<a href=3D"http://mediafire.com" target=3D"_blank">m= ediafire.com</a>&#39; account here:<br>- <a href=3D"https://mediafire.com/f= ile/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file" target=3D"_blank">= https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/f= ile</a><br><br>... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a T= hinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smoot=
h as Carlos Sainz &#39;smooth operator&#39; in Singapore GP ... but not any= more.<br><br>I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our=
of despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have b= een repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue t= hat &#39;too less&#39; FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver= /desktop/laptop system.<br><br>Sorry to disappoint.<br><br>Regards,<br>verm= aden<br><br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><di= v><br clear=3D"all"></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div>= <br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </spa= n><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div>

--000000000000ad125c06570a603a--


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the
sound subsystem in progress, sponsored
by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should
have been merged in one commit and not
in small steps, because changes seem deep.

I do not have anything against that rework ... it should just stay in FreeBSD-CURRENT line as long as its not ready to be used in production - I would even understand if if would be 'forced' into STABLE/RELEASE but only with the right tools for users/sysadmins to actually CATCH these issues and report them - so they can be fixed properly - but not - nothing like that happens - everything is pushed into STABLE and then as a consequence into RELEASE - hoping that maybe in several years the next commits fill fix it ... or not.

When FreeBSD project abandoned the POLA principle?

Regards,
vermaden


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 at 05:52, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:

Concerning MIDI, this is not arch-dependent but targeted cards are mostly rather >old PCI ones. I did not change any USB-audio code, which seems to work at least >on FreeBSD 13.x but is using its own MIDI implementation, because the official >MIDI sub-system was broken. You can see these changes here (wip): https://>github.com/n-p-soft/freebsd-src/tree/midi-all

Hip Hip Hurra',

I want to inform everyone that I'm happy because me and Claude have been able to fix the HDMI sound of my FreeBSD phone in a very good way. Now it plays better than in Linux. Never surrender.

Do you have a diff for us to look at? So we can fix it in freebsd too? :P thanks!
-a
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y'all!
please file bugs. like, whenever i have an audio problem i fire off a
bug and then i poke christos on IRC and we figure it out.
I have like 11 laptops running freebsd-16 dating back to a T420 and
early macbook air laptops. I haven't got anything earlier as they
start being i386 and not amd64.
Audio works on all of them just fine.
-adrian
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 at 07:01, Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> wrote:

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 02:04:25AM +0200, vermaden wrote:

Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not anymore.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things.

I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this:

% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05

... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.

But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio.

Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' account here:
- https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file

... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.

I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop system.

Sorry to disappoint.

I've been experiencing audio issues as well since the recent work
started a little while ago (a year? two years? my chronological memory
isn't the best.)

It's broken bad enough that I now don't use audio on my systems at
all. I haven't filed any bug reports, though, because it just hasn't
been a priority for me. I've got tons of other systems where audio
works fine and it's not really a bother to use those instead of my
fbsd/hbsd systems.

The only downside is when I want to make sure the YouTube link I'm
about to post in random places is really the right one from an audio perspective.

Perhaps some day I'll care enough about the problem to actually dig
in. But for now, I've got higher priority items on my list to tackle.
I just thought I'd provide another anectodal data point with this
email.

Thanks,

--
Shawn Webb
Cofounder / Security Engineer
HardenedBSD

Signal Username: shawn_webb.74
Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc

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------JEKG4YZTEERKEEX4EJ4KVEZXXN2ERF
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charset=utf-8
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May be a sysctl hw=2Esnd=2Evchans_enable =3D 0 will help you=2E

Regards,

Le 20 juillet 2026 23:07:50 GMT+02:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia=2Epl> a = =C3=A9crit :

I think you can easily turn the old mixer
into a port and keep using it :)

Its not about mixer(1) tool - I already ported all my scripts to 'new' sy= ntax - its about all these *boozing* sounds that are not possible to avoid = while just using FreeBSD as a desktop/laptop system - just playing music, w= atching some movie on a page or a live stream=2E

Regards,
vermaden

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<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">May be a sysctl hw=2Esnd=2Evchan= s_enable =3D 0 will help you=2E<br><br>Regards,</div><br><br><div class=3D"= gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 20 juillet 2026 23:07:50 GMT+02:00, verma= den &lt;vermaden@interia=2Epl&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid r= gb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"com-fsck-k9__plain-text-message-pre"><blockquote class=3D"gm= ail_quote" style=3D"margin-bottom: 1ex; --com-fsck-k9__blockquote-default-b= order-color: #729fcf;"><div dir=3D"auto">I think you can easily turn the ol=
d mixer<br>into a port and keep using it :)<br></div></blockquote><div dir= =3D"auto"><br>Its not about mixer(1) tool - I already ported all my scripts=
to 'new' syntax - its about all these *boozing* sounds that are not possib=
le to avoid while just using FreeBSD as a desktop/laptop system - just play= ing music, watching some movie on a page or a live stream=2E<br><br>Regards= ,<br>vermaden<br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></body></html> ------JEKG4YZTEERKEEX4EJ4KVEZXXN2ERF--



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 11:18rC>AM Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 9:02rC>PM Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> wrote:

or something to make RTKit
work

Doesn't sysutils/rtkit-unix work?

Not sure.. it could be the other issues noted and you don't need
anything exotic to test:
[W][12:29:38.641985] mod.rt | [ module-rt.c: 622
set_nice()] could not set nice-level to -11: No such process
W 12:29:38.649223 mod.rt
../src/modules/module-rt.c:622:set_nice: could not set nice-level to
-11: No such proces
s
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 3:04 PM EEST, np wrote:

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should have been merged in one commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep.

This is a gradual work so it cannot be all committed in a massive
commit. Our philosophy is to commit simple, self-contained patches so
that it is easy to review them and also reference or revert specific
changes.

I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13.x, but I don't know what changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework is now massive.

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13.x and use it under 15.0, with minor tweaks in the source tree.

Feel free to propose any patches whenever you want! :-)
Christos
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On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 3:51 PM EEST, Mario Marietto wrote:

Hip Hip Hurra',

I want to inform everyone that I'm happy because me and Claude have been
able to fix the HDMI sound of my FreeBSD phone in a very good way. Now it plays better than in Linux. Never surrender.

Please submit a patch!
Christos
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

This is a gradual work so it cannot be
all committed in a massive commit.

So keep it in CURRENT when it belongs ... why this half way done shit was spread into STABLE tree?

A quick look at mixer(8)'s man page would
suggest otherwise... The rewrite was
introduced in 14.0, and was never MFC'd to 13.*.

As I said earlier - I do not remember exactly when the fuckup happened - I would gladly still use 13.x line ... but its EoL unfortunately ... the 14.x is my only choice now ... and its already broken as fuck.

This is wrong in all aspects. The
tool does introduce something new:
muting and unmuting.

What is the difference between volume=0 and muting? ZERO. Do not find the counter arguments where they are not. Current audio/sound subsystem on FreeBSD is fucked up beautifully - more people then me confirmed that.

And you could not do the same with the old syntax (...)

Great ... make ONE SMALL ADDITIONAL syntax for mute/unmute - but does not fuck up entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD because of it.

I do not understand the obsession with POLA sometimes.

Probably because FreeBSD is not your daily driver ...

At the moment I am the only consistent
sound developer on FreeBSD, and there
are a few more people who occasionally
contribute code, so resources are
naturally scarce. Instead of ranting
on MLs about how "tragic" sound is,
you could spend that time to file a
bug report so that we can try to
address your issues.

Great, so you messed up EVERYTHING in FreeBSD audio/sound department hoping no one would notice? Why all these commits landed in STABLE in the first place?

Build and modernize whatever the fuck You want in CURRENT tree - but stay away from STABLE where people expect things to actually work.

I do not know what 'FreeBSD Foundation' told You when they started to fund Your work - which is more then OK for me - just keep it all in CURRENT before its complete.

Spreading commits to STABLE make EVERYONE life measurable with all these unfinished and broken things.

This whole thread is entirely pointless

Great ... so please tell me why entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD that used to work flawlessly over DECADES is broken as fuck because of You?

Looking at your ignorance level the only thing I want to tell You is the same thing that I can tell to 'Lennart Poettering' - which is 'get the fuck off my lawn!' - but I will not do that hoping that You may actually try to improve FreeBSD - just keep it in CURRENT before its ready and it does not break all the FreeBSD desktop/laptop users we have up there.



Regards,
vermaden


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi,

Top posting: please knock off the abuse. That is not welcome in this community. If you have
technical complaints, great, but you're crossing multiple lines here.

Thanks,

Kyle Evans (with no particular hat)

On 7/21/26 18:23, vermaden wrote:

This is a gradual work so it cannot be
all committed in a massive commit.

So keep it in CURRENT when it belongs ... why this half way done shit was spread into STABLE tree?

A quick look at mixer(8)'s man page would
suggest otherwise... The rewrite was
introduced in 14.0, and was never MFC'd to 13.*.

As I said earlier - I do not remember exactly when the fuckup happened - I would gladly still use 13.x line ... but its EoL unfortunately ... the 14.x is my only choice now ... and its already broken as fuck.

This is wrong in all aspects. The
tool does introduce something new:
muting and unmuting.

What is the difference between volume=0 and muting? ZERO. Do not find the counter arguments where they are not. Current audio/sound subsystem on FreeBSD is fucked up beautifully - more people then me confirmed that.

And you could not do the same with the old syntax (...)

Great ... make ONE SMALL ADDITIONAL syntax for mute/unmute - but does not fuck up entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD because of it.

I do not understand the obsession with POLA sometimes.

Probably because FreeBSD is not your daily driver ...

At the moment I am the only consistent
sound developer on FreeBSD, and there
are a few more people who occasionally
contribute code, so resources are
naturally scarce. Instead of ranting
on MLs about how "tragic" sound is,
you could spend that time to file a
bug report so that we can try to
address your issues.

Great, so you messed up EVERYTHING in FreeBSD audio/sound department hoping no one would notice? Why all these commits landed in STABLE in the first place?

Build and modernize whatever the fuck You want in CURRENT tree - but stay away from STABLE where people expect things to actually work.

I do not know what 'FreeBSD Foundation' told You when they started to fund Your work - which is more then OK for me - just keep it all in CURRENT before its complete.

Spreading commits to STABLE make EVERYONE life measurable with all these unfinished and broken things.

This whole thread is entirely pointless

Great ... so please tell me why entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD that used to work flawlessly over DECADES is broken as fuck because of You?

Looking at your ignorance level the only thing I want to tell You is the same thing that I can tell to 'Lennart Poettering' - which is 'get the fuck off my lawn!' - but I will not do that hoping that You may actually try to improve FreeBSD - just keep it in CURRENT before its ready and it does not break all the FreeBSD desktop/laptop users we have up there.

Regards,
vermaden

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Den Wed, 22 Jul 2026 01:23:40 +0200
skrev vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl>:

As I said earlier - I do not remember exactly when the fuckup
happened - I would gladly still use 13.x line ... but its EoL
unfortunately ... the 14.x is my only choice now ... and its already
broken as fuck.

If it's possible for you, you could run 13 even though it is not
supported.

Myself, I'd rather run something that works than something supported.
That's why I rarely upgrade anything. Basically when drivers work,
the os stays at that version. Same for other software, as long as there's
no real improvements (to me, that is), I do not upgrade.

Far too often I too find upgrading causes more harm than happiness,
either something being broken, something being changed for the worse,
or software that made me select an os being ripped out from the os distribution.

One quite current example involving both FreeBSD (ports) and audio
is the sfizz port being updated to a version where the plugins are not
included anymore and sfizz-ui which does includes the plugins are not
to be found in ports.


Regards
--
Eivind Nicolay Evensen


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

------ZIB08B07GFM24GBJ1DVKO9KU77TZ1G
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you, but as I told you I've an issue with my main MIDI keyboard (late= ncy) which I've not fixed yet - I need to add a new MIDI interface in paral= lel with the other=2E

Then, the sound card integrated in my AMD chipset mysteriously died=2E=2E = I've a lot of other possibilities but I gave up for now=2E=2E

Le 22 juillet 2026 00:14:50 GMT+02:00, Christos Margiolis <christos@freebs= d=2Eorg> a =C3=A9crit :

On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 3:04 PM EEST, np wrote:

Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the sound subsystem in progress, s= ponsored by the FreeBSD foundation=2E But this should have been merged in o=

ne commit and not in small steps, because changes seem deep=2E

This is a gradual work so it cannot be all committed in a massive
commit=2E Our philosophy is to commit simple, self-contained patches so
that it is easy to review them and also reference or revert specific >changes=2E

I personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex,=

but I don't know what changes will be merged/have been merged because the = rework is now massive=2E

At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, you can take the code und=

er sys/sound from FreeBSD 13=2Ex and use it under 15=2E0, with minor tweaks=
in the source tree=2E

Feel free to propose any patches whenever you want! :-)

Christos

------ZIB08B07GFM24GBJ1DVKO9KU77TZ1G
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<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you, but as I told you I'v=
e an issue with my main MIDI keyboard (latency) which I've not fixed yet - =
I need to add a new MIDI interface in parallel with the other=2E<br><br>The=
n, the sound card integrated in my AMD chipset mysteriously died=2E=2E I've=
a lot of other possibilities but I gave up for now=2E=2E</div><br><br><div=
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Le 22 juillet 2026 00:14:50 GMT+02= :00, Christos Margiolis &lt;christos@freebsd=2Eorg&gt; a =C3=A9crit :</div>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; bor= der-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"com-fsck-k9__plain-text-message-pre"><div dir=3D"auto">On Mo=
n Jul 20, 2026 at 3:04 PM EEST, np wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin-bottom: 1ex; --com-fsck-k9__blockquote-default-bo= rder-color: #729fcf;"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework o=
f the sound subsystem in progress, sponsored by the FreeBSD foundation=2E B=
ut this should have been merged in one commit and not in small steps, becau=
se changes seem deep=2E<br></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br>This is=
a gradual work so it cannot be all committed in a massive<br>commit=2E Our=
philosophy is to commit simple, self-contained patches so<br>that it is ea=
sy to review them and also reference or revert specific<br>changes=2E<br><b= r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-bottom: 1ex; --co= m-fsck-k9__blockquote-default-border-color: #729fcf;"><div dir=3D"auto"> I = personally fix the MIDI part so that it is working on FreeBSD 13=2Ex, but I=
don't know what changes will be merged/have been merged because the rework=
is now massive=2E<br><br> At worst, waiting until this job is achieved, yo=
u can take the code under sys/sound from FreeBSD 13=2Ex and use it under 15= =2E0, with minor tweaks in the source tree=2E<br></div></blockquote><div di= r=3D"auto"><br>Feel free to propose any patches whenever you want! :-)<br><= br>Christos<br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></body></html> ------ZIB08B07GFM24GBJ1DVKO9KU77TZ1G--



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Sun, 26-Jul-2026 at 09:11:31 +0200, vermaden wrote:

...
I will not quote the earlier messages as I found new way to generate this buzzing sound (for debugging).

Works both for 14.4-RELEASE (I downgraded to that for less sound issues) and latest 15.1-RELEASE.

I am no hardcore audio user -- just playin video and audio files in the background and I never had a buzzing sound (currently on 14.4-STABLE).

Only avidemux adds an about 200 ms long buzzing sound at the very beginning
of each video it encodes. This has been for years and is probably an avidemux bug and has nothing to do with your problem.

But out of curiosity I tried this:

Start playing some MP3 with 'audio/deadbeef' player - I tried both PulseAudio and OSS backends - same behavior - You need to compile Deadbeef from ports if You want to have PulseAudio backend.

I compiled deadbeef w/o PulseAudio (so its using OSS) and w/o some fancy
codecs I didn't have here already.

Next install 'benchmarks/glmark2' and run it without any other parameters with 'glmark2' command.

Done.

First benchmark is 'rotating horse', second is 'rotating crate box' - buzzing will start at the end of 'horse' and will continue on the 'box' and rest of the benchmarks.

No buzzing here. The benchmark itself is stuttering slightly sometimes
but thats all.

Setting these change nothing:
# sysctl hw.snd.timeout=0

Can't use 0 here:

sysctl hw.snd.timeout=0

hw.snd.timeout: 5
sysctl: hw.snd.timeout=0: Invalid argument

sysctl hw.snd.timeout=1

hw.snd.timeout: 5 -> 1

# sysctl hw.snd.latency=0

sysctl hw.snd.latency=0

hw.snd.latency: 2 -> 0

Both didn't change anything here (no buzzing).

-Andre


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