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hello,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for
OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have
set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages
will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to
log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages
will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to
log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

Does it make sense to add notes like this to src/UPDATING?
Is there a common place to keep updating notes for pkgbase?

Max




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Max Brazhnikov wrote in <2439205.THHZn3L5Ee@mercury>:

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.
=20
if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to log into the system after updating.

=20
Does it make sense to add notes like this to src/UPDATING?

yes, there is a note in UPDATING: https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/UPDATING?h=3Dstable/15&id=3D95cc7f59b7c= e99e8f188a6f308db1b38ae064e4c

Is there a common place to keep updating notes for pkgbase?

currently they go in UPDATING for unreleased branches, and will be
noted in the release notes for releases. 15.1 will be the first
release with examples of the latter, since 15.0 was the first
pkgbase release ever, so had no upgrading notes.

i also post the important ones to the mailing list because, while
pkgbase users are still expected to read UPDATING, it's easy to
get into the habit of ignoring it when nothing breaks for a while.

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

hello,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages
will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to
log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.
All my files are owned by my old uid.

Is this the expected behaviour?
What have I done wrong?

I tried to manually add my user, with the uid/gid matching my files,
but that didn't seem to work.
How can I recover?

Thank you

Anton



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

hello,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for
OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have
set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages
will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST
install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to
log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

(Another naming convention when the old file content is left in its
original place by path/name is adding a .pkgnew suffix. There is also a
prefix naming convention: a .pkgtemp. name prefix, But the prefix naming
should not normally be seen.)

All my files are owned by my old uid.

Is this the expected behaviour?
What have I done wrong?

I tried to manually add my user, with the uid/gid matching my files,
but that didn't seem to work.
How can I recover?

Thank you

Anton

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marklmi at yahoo.com


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

hello,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for
OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have
set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages
will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install
with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST >> install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to >> log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

Was I wrong to do "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal" on 15.0-RELEASE-p4?

Shall I just copy the /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave back to /etc/master.passwd?

Thank you

Anton


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 4/22/26 00:36, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

hello,

i've just MFC'd two commits to stable/15[0] which add new packages for >>>> OpenPAM (FreeBSD-pam*) and Zstandard (FreeBSD-zstd*). if you have
set-minimal installed, you do not need to do anything; the new packages >>>> will be installed automatically the next time you run pkg upgrade.

if you do *not* have set-minimal installed (because you didn't install >>>> with bsdinstall, or because you removed it after installation), you MUST >>>> install the FreeBSD-pam package, otherwise you will no longer be able to >>>> log into the system after updating.

to display the sets you currently have installed, use this command:

% pkg query -e '%n ~ FreeBSD-set-*' '%n'

[0] 95cc7f59b7ce "libpam: Move to a new "pam" package"
8c61751d078e "zstd: Move to a new zstd package"

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?

After pkgbase updates, one should always scan for *.pkgsave and *.pkgnew
files (say via find) and then deal with possibly
merging/updating/restoring the content --or possibly just deleting the *.pkgsave/*.pkgnew file, as appropriate based on the content.

Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

Was I wrong to do "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal" on 15.0-RELEASE-p4?

Shall I just copy the /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave back to /etc/master.passwd?

Do not forget to do something like:

# pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

That would regenerate /etc/spwd.db (secure database) , /etc/pwd.db
(insecure database), and /etc/master.passwd --and the -p means it would
also regenerate a matching /etc/passwd as well.

Once you know the password related files are okay, you may want to
delete /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave .


You should also check if this pkgbase update or prior ones left any
other *.pkgsave or *.pkgnew files for you do deal with for finishing the
file updates involved. pkgbase does not deal with picking how some configuration file updates should be done.

Thank you

Anton

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 05:47:09AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/22/26 00:36, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?

After pkgbase updates, one should always scan for *.pkgsave and *.pkgnew files (say via find) and then deal with possibly
merging/updating/restoring the content --or possibly just deleting the *.pkgsave/*.pkgnew file, as appropriate based on the content.

Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

Was I wrong to do "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal" on 15.0-RELEASE-p4?

Shall I just copy the /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave back to /etc/master.passwd?

Do not forget to do something like:

# pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

That would regenerate /etc/spwd.db (secure database) , /etc/pwd.db
(insecure database), and /etc/master.passwd --and the -p means it would
also regenerate a matching /etc/passwd as well.

Once you know the password related files are okay, you may want to
delete /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave .

You should also check if this pkgbase update or prior ones left any
other *.pkgsave or *.pkgnew files for you do deal with for finishing the
file updates involved. pkgbase does not deal with picking how some configuration file updates should be done.

Mark, thank you.

I missed that this is documented in: https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase?action=show&redirect=PkgBase#A.pkgsave_files

Anton



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 4/22/26 07:46, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 05:47:09AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/22/26 00:36, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, >>>>> which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?

After pkgbase updates, one should always scan for *.pkgsave and *.pkgnew
files (say via find) and then deal with possibly
merging/updating/restoring the content --or possibly just deleting the
*.pkgsave/*.pkgnew file, as appropriate based on the content.

Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

Was I wrong to do "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal" on 15.0-RELEASE-p4?

Shall I just copy the /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave back to /etc/master.passwd?

Do not forget to do something like:

# pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

That would regenerate /etc/spwd.db (secure database) , /etc/pwd.db
(insecure database), and /etc/master.passwd --and the -p means it would
also regenerate a matching /etc/passwd as well.

Once you know the password related files are okay, you may want to
delete /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave .


You should also check if this pkgbase update or prior ones left any
other *.pkgsave or *.pkgnew files for you do deal with for finishing the
file updates involved. pkgbase does not deal with picking how some
configuration file updates should be done.

Mark, thank you.

I missed that this is documented in: https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase?action=show&redirect=PkgBase#A.pkgsave_files

It is too bad that the pkg upgrade and the pkg install man pages do not document the .pkgsave and .pkgnew behavior and how to handle handle
them. The wiki is not part of what installs on the local FreeBSD system
as documentation.

Far more files than the wiki materials list can be affected, including
scripts and such. I've also had examples of configuration files:

/etc/group.pkgsave /etc/group
/etc/hosts.pkgsave /etc/hosts
/etc/sysctl.conf.pkgsave /etc/sysctl.conf
/etc/shells.pkgsave /etc/shells

/etc/ssh/sshd_config.pkgsave /etc/ssh/sshd_config
So, after adjustment, also needing: service sshd restart

/.profile.pkgsave /.profile
/.shrc.pkgsave /.shrc
/root/.profile.pkgsave /root/.profile
/root/.shrc.pkgsave /root/.shrc
/usr/home/root/.profile.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.profile /usr/home/root/.shrc.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.shrc

/etc/rc.subr.pkgsave /etc/rc.subr
/etc/rc.pkgsave /etc/rc
/etc/defaults/rc.conf.pkgsave /etc/defaults/rc.conf
/etc/kyua/kyua.conf.pkgsave /etc/kyua/kyua.conf /etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs.pkgsave
/etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs

/etc/mail/*.pkgsave
/etc/mtree/*.pkgsave

Most of those I've not had an example of in a long time.

Even normal system programs/libraries can get such *.pkg* files. For
example, if one has patched a program or library locally and then a
later update has to deal with the patched file. The patched file can be
saved (.pkgsave) or the new file can be separately saved (.pkgnew).

Checking for such files via find or the like is a good idea.

Similar points apply to any chroot worlds and/or jail worlds that happen
to be pkgbase based.

Anton

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Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-=

RELEASE-p4.

I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.
=20
For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).
=20
After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....
=20
Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

=20
Did you end up with the likes of:
=20
/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

=20
Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave
=20
So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

=20
no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always
be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 4/22/26 14:18, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

The above is not explicit about if the 14.x was pkgbase already or not.

FYI for Anton:
14.*-RELELASE pkgbase is not officially Release Engineering/Security
supported the way 15.0 pkgbase is, by the way. 14.* has not been updated
to match what 15.0 did to have such pkgbase support. 14.x's pkgbase ->
15.0 pkgbase upgrade sequence is somewhat special because of that --and
not fully documented.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested,
which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always
be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

A 14.x FreeBSD-runtime package would be replaced by a 15.0-RELEASE-p4
package would it not (if that pkgbase -> pkgbase upgrade is the type of
upgrade that was done)? Would that produce a .pkgsave file for the /etc/master.passwd (given the RE-unsupported nature of 14.* pkgbase)?

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:01:20AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

It is too bad that the pkg upgrade and the pkg install man pages do not document the .pkgsave and .pkgnew behavior and how to handle handle
them. The wiki is not part of what installs on the local FreeBSD system
as documentation.

Far more files than the wiki materials list can be affected, including scripts and such. I've also had examples of configuration files:

/etc/group.pkgsave /etc/group
/etc/hosts.pkgsave /etc/hosts
/etc/sysctl.conf.pkgsave /etc/sysctl.conf
/etc/shells.pkgsave /etc/shells

/etc/ssh/sshd_config.pkgsave /etc/ssh/sshd_config
So, after adjustment, also needing: service sshd restart

/.profile.pkgsave /.profile
/.shrc.pkgsave /.shrc
/root/.profile.pkgsave /root/.profile
/root/.shrc.pkgsave /root/.shrc
/usr/home/root/.profile.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.profile /usr/home/root/.shrc.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.shrc

/etc/rc.subr.pkgsave /etc/rc.subr
/etc/rc.pkgsave /etc/rc
/etc/defaults/rc.conf.pkgsave /etc/defaults/rc.conf /etc/kyua/kyua.conf.pkgsave /etc/kyua/kyua.conf /etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs.pkgsave
/etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs

/etc/mail/*.pkgsave
/etc/mtree/*.pkgsave

Most of those I've not had an example of in a long time.

Even normal system programs/libraries can get such *.pkg* files. For
example, if one has patched a program or library locally and then a
later update has to deal with the patched file. The patched file can be
saved (.pkgsave) or the new file can be separately saved (.pkgnew).

Checking for such files via find or the like is a good idea.

Similar points apply to any chroot worlds and/or jail worlds that happen
to be pkgbase based.

yes, there are lots of those:

# find / -type f -name "*.pkgsave" | wc -l
155

most under /rescue:

root@aob:~ # find /rescue -type f -name "*.pkgsave" | wc -l
149

Anton


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On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:18:39PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always
be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

I admit I got a bit complacent... doing major and minor
updates with freebsd-update for years about any issue,
that I stopped reading UPDATING, and such.
So all this is my fault probably.

I used freebsd-update to upgrade from some 14.4 to 15.0.

Once on 15.0, when updating ports, I noticed some differences,
read some posts, and found out about pkgbase.
It's possible that I missed some key steps
going 14 -> 15, or made some other mistakes.

But after upgrading to 15.0, all I did was "pkg upgrade".

Thank you

Anton



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On 4/23/26 01:13, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:18:39PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected
reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, >>>>> which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always
be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would
overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of
FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

I admit I got a bit complacent... doing major and minor
updates with freebsd-update for years about any issue,
that I stopped reading UPDATING, and such.
So all this is my fault probably.

I used freebsd-update to upgrade from some 14.4 to 15.0.

So 14.* was never in pkgbase form?

Once on 15.0, when updating ports, I noticed some differences,
read some posts, and found out about pkgbase.

So the conversion to pkgbase started from a pnon-pkgbase 15.0 to produce
a pkgbase 15.0?

Did you use https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify to do the
conversion (no matter which FreeBSD version was the starting point)?

It's possible that I missed some key steps
going 14 -> 15, or made some other mistakes.

But after upgrading to 15.0, all I did was "pkg upgrade".

Thank you

Anton

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On 4/23/26 01:06, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:01:20AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

It is too bad that the pkg upgrade and the pkg install man pages do not
document the .pkgsave and .pkgnew behavior and how to handle handle
them. The wiki is not part of what installs on the local FreeBSD system
as documentation.

Far more files than the wiki materials list can be affected, including
scripts and such. I've also had examples of configuration files:

/etc/group.pkgsave /etc/group
/etc/hosts.pkgsave /etc/hosts
/etc/sysctl.conf.pkgsave /etc/sysctl.conf
/etc/shells.pkgsave /etc/shells

/etc/ssh/sshd_config.pkgsave /etc/ssh/sshd_config
So, after adjustment, also needing: service sshd restart

/.profile.pkgsave /.profile
/.shrc.pkgsave /.shrc
/root/.profile.pkgsave /root/.profile
/root/.shrc.pkgsave /root/.shrc
/usr/home/root/.profile.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.profile
/usr/home/root/.shrc.pkgsave /usr/home/root/.shrc

/etc/rc.subr.pkgsave /etc/rc.subr
/etc/rc.pkgsave /etc/rc
/etc/defaults/rc.conf.pkgsave /etc/defaults/rc.conf
/etc/kyua/kyua.conf.pkgsave /etc/kyua/kyua.conf
/etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs.pkgsave
/etc/periodic/daily/223.backup-zfs

/etc/mail/*.pkgsave
/etc/mtree/*.pkgsave

Most of those I've not had an example of in a long time.

Even normal system programs/libraries can get such *.pkg* files. For
example, if one has patched a program or library locally and then a
later update has to deal with the patched file. The patched file can be
saved (.pkgsave) or the new file can be separately saved (.pkgnew).

Checking for such files via find or the like is a good idea.

Similar points apply to any chroot worlds and/or jail worlds that happen
to be pkgbase based.

yes, there are lots of those:

# find / -type f -name "*.pkgsave" | wc -l
155

Some of the 6 that are not in the below 149 might be important for some
of their content?

most under /rescue:

root@aob:~ # find /rescue -type f -name "*.pkgsave" | wc -l
149

That suggests to me that you did not use:

<https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify>

to do the conversion. Did you?(If you did, this was an interesting
result, at least at the time.)

If you did not use pkgbasify, then only you know the detailed steps that
you used and it may not be clear how to figure out how the above
happened at this point.

I'll note that /rescue/ content is normally special, being a bunch of
hard links to the same file under different names for the most part, if
I remember right. The *.pkgsave files might not be that way and might
take a lot of disk space for that reason.

My expectation here is that the 149 *.pkgsave files have no reason to be
kept.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
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Mark Millard wrote in <23bb166c-ec8e-4c98-b03c-5fbc7f364f2a@yahoo.com>:

A 14.x FreeBSD-runtime package would be replaced by a 15.0-RELEASE-p4
package would it not (if that pkgbase -> pkgbase upgrade is the type of upgrade that was done)? Would that produce a .pkgsave file for the /etc/master.passwd (given the RE-unsupported nature of 14.* pkgbase)?

=66rom pkg's point of view, it doesn't matter what the old version
number of the package is; if the package is being upgraded, it will
not overwrite configuration files.

this would only happen if master.passwd was not marked as @config
in 14, but i'm fairly sure it was. a couple of files were missing
@config, but that wasn't one of them.

--E6qYEGDNakpfudpg
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Thu, Apr 23, 2026 at 09:54:41AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/23/26 01:13, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:18:39PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected >>>>> reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, >>>>> which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always
be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would
overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of
FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

I admit I got a bit complacent... doing major and minor
updates with freebsd-update for years about any issue,
that I stopped reading UPDATING, and such.
So all this is my fault probably.

I used freebsd-update to upgrade from some 14.4 to 15.0.

So 14.* was never in pkgbase form?

correct

Once on 15.0, when updating ports, I noticed some differences,
read some posts, and found out about pkgbase.

So the conversion to pkgbase started from a pnon-pkgbase 15.0 to produce
a pkgbase 15.0?

Not sure, maybe I never converted.
What does it mean to have a "pkgbase" system?
How can I check?

BTW, I noticed that my versions diverged somehow:

# freebsd-version -kru
15.0-RELEASE-p4
15.0-RELEASE-p4
15.0-RELEASE-p6

Did you use https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify to do the conversion (no matter which FreeBSD version was the starting point)?

no

Does this mean my system is *not* a pkgbase system?
I.e. one must use pkgbasify, as per
https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase
to convert an non-pkgbase 15.0 to a pkgbase 15.0?

I assumed that all I need is /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf
with ports, ports-kmods and FreeBSD-base.

Time to rtfm I guess...

Thank you

Anton


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 4/24/26 01:09, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Thu, Apr 23, 2026 at 09:54:41AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/23/26 01:13, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:18:39PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:
I recently upgraded Lenovo T480 laptop from some 14.x relase to 15.0-RELEASE-p4.
I'm still figuring out the use of pkg for base upgrades.

For a few weeks all was working more or less well (some unexpected >>>>>>> reboots, but I had no time to dig into that).

After reading your mail, I typed the pkg query command you suggested, >>>>>>> which returned nothing.
I then did "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal".
When that completed, I realised that my user is gone....

Looking at /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd I see that indeed
my user is not there anymore.

Did you end up with the likes of:

/etc/passwd.pkgsave
/etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

Yes, I have /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave

So what happened?
Is it expected that "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal"
should erase all ordinary users from /etc/master.passwd
and save the original file as /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave?

no, something has gone wrong here.

how did you install this system?

/etc/master.passwd is in the FreeBSD-runtime package, which must always >>>> be installed on a pkgbase system. the only reason 'pkg upgrade' would >>>> overwrite it with a pristine copy is if you somehow didn't have that
package installed, but if that was the case, the system would already
be completely non-functional.

the only way i can imagine this happening if you had a non-pkgbase
system, then installed FreeBSD-runtime (e.g., as a dependency of
FreeBSD-set-minimal), but this should not be possible in a normal
non-pkgbase installation since the FreeBSD-base repository won't
be enabled.

I admit I got a bit complacent... doing major and minor
updates with freebsd-update for years about any issue,
that I stopped reading UPDATING, and such.
So all this is my fault probably.

I used freebsd-update to upgrade from some 14.4 to 15.0.

So 14.* was never in pkgbase form?

correct

Once on 15.0, when updating ports, I noticed some differences,
read some posts, and found out about pkgbase.

So the conversion to pkgbase started from a pnon-pkgbase 15.0 to produce
a pkgbase 15.0?

Not sure, maybe I never converted.
What does it mean to have a "pkgbase" system?

It seems that you have some sort of partial update to pkgbase.

What do the following show:

# pkg -v

# pkg repos -d

# pkg repos -e

# pkg info FreeBSD-\*

That last could produce over 500 lines.

How can I check?

BTW, I noticed that my versions diverged somehow:

# freebsd-version -kru
15.0-RELEASE-p4
15.0-RELEASE-p4
15.0-RELEASE-p6

This is what happens when one of the following is true:

) only the world had updates available, the kernel had no changes
) there were kernel updates that were not applied

Did you use https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify to do the
conversion (no matter which FreeBSD version was the starting point)?

no

Does this mean my system is *not* a pkgbase system?

You appear to have at least some pkgbase packages installed, but
possibly not an appropriate set of them.

I.e. one must use pkgbasify, as per
https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase
to convert an non-pkgbase 15.0 to a pkgbase 15.0?

For your conversion . . .

Did you try to follow the steps of the "Manual initial setup", despite
them being older than covering conversion for 15.0?

Did you instead try one of the U[pgrades proedures (Minor vs. Major?)?
"13 to 14"? "Building'?

I assumed that all I need is /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf
with ports, ports-kmods and FreeBSD-base.

You had to use something that involved actual pkg commands in order to
have the .pkgsave files generated. Merely having the configuration
file(s) present would not cause that.

Time to rtfm I guess...

Thank you

Anton

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Lexi Winter <ivy@freebsd.org> writes:

this would only happen if master.passwd was not marked as @config
in 14, but i'm fairly sure it was. a couple of files were missing
@config, but that wasn't one of them.

Anton did not have a pkgbase system and never ran `pkgbasify`. He
upgraded from 14.4 to 15.0 using `freebsd-update` then ran `pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal` after reading your email about the new pam and zstd packages.
DES
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote in <86qzo44let.fsf@ltc.des.dev>:

Lexi Winter <ivy@freebsd.org> writes:

this would only happen if master.passwd was not marked as @config
in 14, but i'm fairly sure it was. a couple of files were missing
@config, but that wasn't one of them.

=20
Anton did not have a pkgbase system and never ran `pkgbasify`. He
upgraded from 14.4 to 15.0 using `freebsd-update` then ran `pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal` after reading your email about the new pam and zstd packages.

yes, i know; i was responding to Mark's question about whether upgrading FreeBSD-runtime from 14 to 15 would overwrite master.passwd.

in OP's case, the only way "pkg install FreeBSD-set-minimal" would work
is if they had somehow enabled the FreeBSD-base repository, which is
disabled by default.

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On Apr 24, 2026, at 4:09rC>AM, Anton Shterenlikht <lists@cmplx.uk> wrote:

On Thu, Apr 23, 2026 at 09:54:41AM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/23/26 01:13, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:18:39PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Anton Shterenlikht wrote in <aeh6ddAuDClL4YFn@cmplx.uk>:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:52:43PM -0700, Mark Millard wrote:

On 4/21/26 08:52, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

On Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 12:30:50PM +0100, Lexi Winter wrote:

Does this mean my system is *not* a pkgbase system?
I.e. one must use pkgbasify, as per
https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase
to convert an non-pkgbase 15.0 to a pkgbase 15.0?

I assumed that all I need is /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf
with ports, ports-kmods and FreeBSD-base.

Time to rtfm I guess...

Where is the definitive documentation for pkgbase, conversion to same, and I guess really a general overview of what it is and "why"?
I generally have found the wiki to be out-of-date or just generally "unofficial" and the place one would go looking for information on something new before it's been released, things that are of interest to developers but not necessarily users... but with pkgbase in 15.x now, I kind of assumed we'd have a handbook chapter, or at least entries for converting and updating in the "EXAMPLES" section of the pkg manpage. This is kind of reminds me of BE's and how they just sort of became automatic with "freebsd-update" on ZFS systems and, while it's an excellent feature, I never found a good "how and why" doc on that either.
On documentation in general, I am perhaps a weirdo about this, but many times I can't quite wrap my head around something until I have the "why" of it - then things generally fall into place really quickly for me...
Charles

Thank you

Anton

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Temat: Re: [HEADS UP] stable/15: new base packages for PAM, zstd
Data: 2026-04-24 19:06
Nadawca: "Charles Sprickman" <spork@bway.net>
Adresat: "Anton Shterenlikht" <lists@cmplx.uk>;
DW: "Mark Millard" <marklmi@yahoo.com>;
stable@freebsd.org; pkgbase@freebsd.org;

Where is the definitive documentation for pkgbase,
conversion to same, and I guess really a general overview
of what it is and "why"?

I generally have found the wiki to be out-of-date or just
generally "unofficial" and the place one would go looking
for information on something new before it's been released,
things that are of interest to developers but not necessarily
users... but with pkgbase in 15.x now, I kind of assumed
we'd have a handbook chapter, or at least entries for
converting and updating in the "EXAMPLES" section of the
pkg man page. This is kind of reminds me of BE's and how
they just sort of became automatic with "freebsd-update"
on ZFS systems and, while it's an excellent feature, I never
found a good "how and why" doc on that either.

On documentation in general, I am perhaps a weirdo about
this, but many times I can't quite wrap my head around
something until I have the "why" of it - then things generally
fall into place really quickly for me...

Charles

About PKGBASE here You can find some 'external' documentation:

- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/10/20/brave-new-pkgbase-world/
- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/07/20/freebsd-pkgbase-pkgbasify-tool/
- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2023/12/09/personal-freebsd-pkgbase-update-server/

About that ZFS Boot Environments ... here is some additional
'external' documentation from mine as well - hope that helps.

- https://is.gd/BECTL
- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/11/25/zfs-boot-environments-explained/
- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/03/14/zfs-boot-environments-revolutions/ - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/
- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/10/19/other-freebsd-version-in-zfs-boot-environment/




Regards,
vermaden


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi!

Where is the definitive documentation for pkgbase, conversion to
same, and I guess really a general overview of what it is and "why"?

I collected the following links, also those just mentioned from vermaden@

https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/book/#pkgbase

https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify

https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/pkgbase

On documentation in general, I am perhaps a weirdo about this,
but many times I can't quite wrap my head around something until I
have the "why" of it - then things generally fall into place really
quickly for me...

From what I've learned, initial installation of 'base' from packages
is roughly the same as before, but *updates* are easier to handle.

If you look at the freebsd-update script, the run time to
find which files need to be updated etc was always resource-intensive.
With a base system seperated in packages, the code from pkg
which allows to decide which pkg to update can be used.

I have no insight in the backend of freebsd-update, maybe Colin
can describe the pros and cons from that side ?
--
pi@FreeBSD.org +49 171 3101372 Now what ?


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Kurt Jaeger <pi@freebsd.org> writes:

From what I've learned, initial installation of 'base' from packages
is roughly the same as before, but *updates* are easier to handle.

* Installing on bare metal (or a VM) is roughly the same, but creating a
jail is much easier.
* Updates are easier to handle, both on the provider side and on the
consumer side. The downside is that pkgbase consumes significantly
more bandwidth than freebsd-update, especially for security updates.
* The system can be stripped down to the bare essentials without losing
the ability to receive updates. The smallest usable set you can
maintain with freebsd-update is base = over 700 MB or almost 900 MB if
you add a kernel. The smallest usable set you can maintain with
pkgbase is clibs + runtime (+ rc) = less than 15 MB or 175 MB with a
kernel.

If you look at the freebsd-update script, the run time to find which
files need to be updated etc was always resource-intensive.

The problem with the freebsd-update client is mostly that it is a shell
script. There is an unofficial Rust implementation which does the exact
same job much, much faster, though I can't vouch for it.

I have no insight in the backend of freebsd-update, maybe Colin
can describe the pros and cons from that side ?

We first do a full release build of each patched branch. Then the freebsd-update build scripts download the build artifacts and compare
them to the previous version to inventory added, deleted, and modified
files and produce binary diffs for each and indices for the whole thing.
This time-consuming process is repeated for the cartesian join of every
version we want to be able to update _from_ (all supported releases plus
a handful of recently-out-of-support releases) and every version we want
to be able to update _to_ (all supported releases). The diffs are then
signed and pushed to the mirrors, which also takes several hours. Only
when all mirrors have synced the full set can we push an additional tiny
diff that makes the updates visible to users (and only takes minutes to propagate).
I realize it sounds quite mad but keep in mind that this was first
deployed 20 years ago and the primary objective was to minimize the
bandwidth consumed by updates, which this system does _very well_.
FreeBSD is much bigger today than it was 20 years ago, but only by a
factor of around 10, while bandwidth has increased by a factor of about
1,000 over the same period of time.
DES
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