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I would personally like this. I moved all my systems to pkgbase and I admit
to some trepidation over the state of being which is the base, and the
state which is inside my hands adding s/w willy-nilly.
I think some structural separation makes sense. It really only has to be something like wrappers over the underlying binary to point -C
/path/to/config to achieve this, if the config can set where the DB and
cache is.
I'm not sure I understand the reluctance to do this. I'd like to, because
I'd like to understand the downside risks here.
-G
On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 6:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden <
vermaden@interia.pl> wrot=
e:
Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41
Nadawca: "Miroslav Lachman" <000.fbsd@quip.cz>
Adresat: "Paul Mather" <paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>;
DW: "Nikos Vassiliadis" <nvass@gmx.com>; "vermaden" & lt;vermaden@interia.pl>; "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>;
On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:
On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29=E2=80=AFam, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@qui=
p.cz>
wrote:
[...]
First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear
separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,
without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.
The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf.
So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define
"base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict
"pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.
Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,
so every computer will have a different command to achieve
the same result. What an amazing time we live in.
I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system
updates and package upgrades into a single command by
default. Now even something as simple as patch level
security base update can completely break user's desktop
if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository
happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,
Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.
(missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from
the local machine =E2=80=94 I see this problem far too often)
Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman
I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:
1.
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the
/var/db/pkgbase/ directory.
2.
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.
... but seems that is just not wanted.
Regards,
vermaden
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I would personally like this. I moved all my systems to pk= gbase and I admit to some trepidation over the state of being which is the = base, and the state which is inside my hands adding s/w willy-nilly.<div><b= r></div><div>I think some structural separation makes sense. It really only=
has to be something like wrappers over the underlying binary to point -C /= path/to/config to achieve this, if the config can set where the DB and cach=
e is.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure I understand the reluctance=
to do this. I'd like to, because I'd like to understand the downsi=
de risks here.</div><div><br></div><div>-G</div><div><br></div><div><br></d= iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"l= tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 6:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:
vermaden@interia.pl">
vermaden@interia.pl</a>> wrote= :<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.= 8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?<br>
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41<br>
Nadawca: "Miroslav Lachman" &<a href=3D"mailto:lt%3B000.fbsd@= quip.cz" target=3D"_blank">lt;
000.fbsd@quip.cz</a>><br>
Adresat: "Paul Mather" &<a href=3D"mailto:lt%
3Bpaul@gromit.dl= ib.vt.edu" target=3D"_blank">lt;
paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu</a>>; <br>
DW: "Nikos Vassiliadis" &<a href=3D"mailto:lt%
3Bnvass@gmx.com=
" target=3D"_blank">lt;
nvass@gmx.com</a>>; "vermaden" &<a = href=3D"mailto:lt%
3Bvermaden@interia.pl" target=3D"_blank">lt;vermaden@inte= ria.pl</a>>; "
freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" &lt;freebsd-stab=
le@FreeBSD.org>; <br>
>> On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:<br>
>> On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29=E2=80=AFam, Miroslav Lachman &<a href= =3D"mailto:lt%
3B000.fbsd@quip.cz" target=3D"_blank">lt;
000.fbsd@quip.cz</a>= ><br>
>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> [...]<br>
> <br>
>>> First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear<br=
>>> separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,<br> >>> without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.co= nf.<br>
>> So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define<br> >> "base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to = restrict<br>
>> "pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.<br>
> <br>
> Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,<br>
> so every computer will have a different command to achieve<br>
> the same result. What an amazing time we live in.<br>
> <br>
> I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system<br=
> updates and package upgrades into a single command by<br>
> default. Now even something as simple as patch level<br>
> security base update can completely break user's desktop<br>
> if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository <br>
> happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,<br>
> Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.<br>
> (missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from<br>
> the local machine =E2=80=94 I see this problem far too often)<br>
> <br>
> Kind regards<br>
> Miroslav Lachman<br>
I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:<br>
1.<br>
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate<br>
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the<br> /var/db/pkgbase/ directory.<br>
2.<br>
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate<br>
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in<br>
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.<br>
... but seems that is just not wanted.<br>
Regards,<br>
vermaden<br>
</blockquote></div>
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