From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi,

Is there a way to invert a match when upgrading? Since I've started
using pkgbase I find myself wanting to upgrade only non-base packages
and I haven't found a quick way to do it. It would be great to have
an option to invert -g or -x matches.

Thanks,
Nikos



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi.


Temat: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 10:34
Nadawca: "Nikos Vassiliadis" <nvass@gmx.com>
Adresat: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org;

Hi,

Is there a way to invert a match when upgrading? Since I've started
using pkgbase I find myself wanting to upgrade only non-base packages
and I haven't found a quick way to do it. It would be great to have
an option to invert -g or -x matches.

Thanks,
Nikos

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD-ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods
Updating FreeBSD-ports repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports repository is up to date.
Updating FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository is up to date.
FreeBSD-ports, FreeBSD-ports-kmods are up to date.
Checking for upgrades (0 candidates): 100%
Processing candidates (0 candidates): 100%
Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting)
Your packages are up to date.

So PKGBASE 'Base System' will not be upgraded because its in the 'FreeBSD-base' repo.

Regards,
vermaden


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 3/19/26 12:14, vermaden wrote:

Hi.

Temat: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 10:34
Nadawca: "Nikos Vassiliadis" <nvass@gmx.com>
Adresat: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org;

Hi,

Is there a way to invert a match when upgrading? Since I've started
using pkgbase I find myself wanting to upgrade only non-base packages
and I haven't found a quick way to do it. It would be great to have
an option to invert -g or -x matches.

Thanks,
Nikos

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD-ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods
Updating FreeBSD-ports repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports repository is up to date.
Updating FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository is up to date.
FreeBSD-ports, FreeBSD-ports-kmods are up to date.
Checking for upgrades (0 candidates): 100%
Processing candidates (0 candidates): 100%
Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting)
Your packages are up to date.

So PKGBASE 'Base System' will not be upgraded because its in the 'FreeBSD-base' repo.

Hi vermaden,
Oh yes, that does what I asked for. Thank you!
For completeness reasons I think it would be nice to add an option to
pkg to invert matches. Maybe it should invert -r as well!
Regards,
Nikos
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 19/03/2026 11:35, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

On 3/19/26 12:14, vermaden wrote:

[..]

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD-
ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods

[..]

Hi vermaden,

Oh yes, that does what I asked for. Thank you!

For completeness reasons I think it would be nice to add an option to
pkg to invert matches. Maybe it should invert -r as well!

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear separation
of base system upgrades from 3rd packages, without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29rC>am, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote:

On 19/03/2026 11:35, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

On 3/19/26 12:14, vermaden wrote:

[..]

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD- ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods

[..]

Hi vermaden,
Oh yes, that does what I asked for. Thank you!
For completeness reasons I think it would be nice to add an option to
pkg to invert matches. Maybe it should invert -r as well!

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages, without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf. So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define "base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict "pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.
Cheers,
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mar 19, 2026, at 9:42rC>AM, Paul Mather <paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> wrote:

On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29rC>am, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote:

On 19/03/2026 11:35, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

On 3/19/26 12:14, vermaden wrote:

[..]

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD- ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods

[..]

Hi vermaden,
Oh yes, that does what I asked for. Thank you!
For completeness reasons I think it would be nice to add an option to
pkg to invert matches. Maybe it should invert -r as well!

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages, without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf. So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define "base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict "pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.

Since this is one of the biggest changes to the upgrade system since the OS was introduced, it might save those answering questions on the mailing lists and forums to put some useful aliases in the stock pkg.conf to deal with this. Similar with having this openly documented somewhere as opposed to people just grunting that "you know pkg can handle multiple repos (even though 99% of users out there have likely never had a need to switch repos when invoking pkg)".
Charles

Cheers,

Paul.

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Hi!

Since this is one of the biggest changes to the upgrade system since the OS was introduced, it might save those answering questions on the mailing lists and forums to put some useful aliases in the stock pkg.conf to deal with this. Similar with having this openly documented somewhere as opposed to people just grunting that "you know pkg can handle multiple repos (even though 99% of users out there have likely never had a need to switch repos when invoking pkg)".

This is where bugs.freebsd.org waits for patches and submissions.

And wiki.freebsd.org pages to update 8-}

Well, at least, before the Big AI in the Sky comes to do all this for us 8-}
--
pi@FreeBSD.org +49 171 3101372 Now what ?


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mar 19, 2026, at 12:40rC>pm, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote:

On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:

On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29rC>am, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote:

[...]

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages, without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf. So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define "base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict "pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.

Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way, so every computer will have a different command to achieve the same result. What an amazing time we live in.

\begin{sarcasm}
Actually, they won't each fix it in their own way. They'll recognise the brilliance of my solution and all fix it that way. :-)
\end{sarcasm}
Choices, and the freedom to choose your own solution is amazing. But, I acknowledge that pkgbase is an evolving solution, which is why it is just a technology preview in 15. AFAIK, the current solution is not set in stone. Having it as a technology preview promotes more widespread testing, and exposing it to more people allows problems to surface and solutions to be explored and the system improved. That's what I thought happened here: someone asked a question on a mailing list and so I offered an answer. I thought that's what the mailing lists are for? I suppose the alternative is to say, "Wait for the FreeBSD developers to solve this, even though you can work around it yourself if it's that big a problem for you."
Coming back to choice: if you are unhappy with pkgbase and the integrity of your base OS, you don't even have to jump on the pkgbase merry-go-round right now. You could stick with ye olde src-based upgrade mechanism that has been around since I first started using FreeBSD back in the 3.5 days. (That's what I'm doing right now on a 15-STABLE system.) When Goldilocks determines that pkgbase is "just right" you can then make the jump. :-)
Understand your risk and orient your solution accordingly.

I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system updates and package upgrades into a single command by default. Now even something as simple as patch level security base update can completely break user's desktop if package upgrade runs at the same time and the repository happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox, Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.
(missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from the local machine rCo I see this problem far too often)

In my experience, that happened before pkgbase. Having reliable update and rollback procedures is important.
Cheers,
Paul.
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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On 3/19/26 03:35, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

On 3/19/26 12:14, vermaden wrote:

Hi.


Temat: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 10:34
Nadawca: "Nikos Vassiliadis" &lt;nvass@gmx.com>
Adresat: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org;

Hi,

Is there a way to invert a match when upgrading? Since I've started
using pkgbase I find myself wanting to upgrade only non-base packages
and I haven't found a quick way to do it. It would be great to have
an option to invert -g or -x matches.

Thanks,
Nikos

You can upgrade only with specified 'FreeBSD-ports' and 'FreeBSD-
ports-kmods' repos:

root@freebsd15:~ # pkg upg -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods
Updating FreeBSD-ports repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports repository is up to date.
Updating FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository catalogue...
FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository is up to date.
FreeBSD-ports, FreeBSD-ports-kmods are up to date.
Checking for upgrades (0 candidates): 100%
Processing candidates (0 candidates): 100%
Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting)
Your packages are up to date.

So PKGBASE 'Base System' will not be upgraded because its in the
'FreeBSD-base' repo.

Hi vermaden,

Oh yes, that does what I asked for. Thank you!

For completeness reasons I think it would be nice to add an option to
pkg to invert matches. Maybe it should invert -r as well!

There is, in general, not a fixed list of repos. Folks can have their
own and also use some or all of the ones that FreeBSD provides.
Inversion of the -r list is rather open ended without being explicit.
Such would be unsafe for general scripting uses, for example.

Regards,
Nikos

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marklmi at yahoo.com


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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable


Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41
Nadawca: "Miroslav Lachman" &lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz>
Adresat: "Paul Mather" &lt;paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>;
DW: "Nikos Vassiliadis" &lt;nvass@gmx.com>; "vermaden" &lt;vermaden@interia.pl>; "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" &lt;freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>;

On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:
On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29rC>am, Miroslav Lachman &lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz>
wrote:

[...]

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear
separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,
without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf.
So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define
"base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict
"pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.

Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,
so every computer will have a different command to achieve
the same result. What an amazing time we live in.

I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system
updates and package upgrades into a single command by
default. Now even something as simple as patch level
security base update can completely break user's desktop
if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository
happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,
Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.
(missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from
the local machine rCo I see this problem far too often)

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman

I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:
1.
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the
/var/db/pkgbase/ directory.
2.
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.
... but seems that is just not wanted.
Regards,
vermaden
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--0000000000007f3bb3064d683039
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would personally like this. I moved all my systems to pkgbase and I admit
to some trepidation over the state of being which is the base, and the
state which is inside my hands adding s/w willy-nilly.

I think some structural separation makes sense. It really only has to be something like wrappers over the underlying binary to point -C
/path/to/config to achieve this, if the config can set where the DB and
cache is.

I'm not sure I understand the reluctance to do this. I'd like to, because
I'd like to understand the downside risks here.

-G



On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 6:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrot=
e:

Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41
Nadawca: "Miroslav Lachman" &lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz>
Adresat: "Paul Mather" &lt;paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>;
DW: "Nikos Vassiliadis" &lt;nvass@gmx.com>; "vermaden" & lt;vermaden@interia.pl>; "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" &lt;freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>;

On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:
On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29=E2=80=AFam, Miroslav Lachman &lt;000.fbsd@qui=

p.cz>

wrote:

[...]

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear
separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,
without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf.
So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define
"base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict
"pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.

Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,
so every computer will have a different command to achieve
the same result. What an amazing time we live in.

I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system
updates and package upgrades into a single command by
default. Now even something as simple as patch level
security base update can completely break user's desktop
if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository
happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,
Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.
(missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from
the local machine =E2=80=94 I see this problem far too often)

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman

I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:

1.
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the
/var/db/pkgbase/ directory.

2.
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.

... but seems that is just not wanted.

Regards,
vermaden

--0000000000007f3bb3064d683039
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I would personally like this. I moved all my systems to pk= gbase and I admit to some trepidation over the state of being which is the = base, and the state which is inside my hands adding s/w willy-nilly.<div><b= r></div><div>I think some structural separation makes sense. It really only=
has to be something like wrappers over the underlying binary to point -C /= path/to/config to achieve this, if the config can set where the DB and cach=
e is.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not sure I understand the reluctance=
to do this. I&#39;d like to, because I&#39;d like to understand the downsi=
de risks here.</div><div><br></div><div>-G</div><div><br></div><div><br></d= iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"l= tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 6:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vermaden@interia.pl">vermaden@interia.pl</a>&gt; wrote= :<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.= 8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>

Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?<br>
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41<br>
Nadawca: &quot;Miroslav Lachman&quot; &amp;<a href=3D"mailto:lt%3B000.fbsd@= quip.cz" target=3D"_blank">lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz</a>&gt;<br>
Adresat: &quot;Paul Mather&quot; &amp;<a href=3D"mailto:lt%3Bpaul@gromit.dl= ib.vt.edu" target=3D"_blank">lt;paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu</a>&gt;; <br>
DW: &quot;Nikos Vassiliadis&quot; &amp;<a href=3D"mailto:lt%3Bnvass@gmx.com=
" target=3D"_blank">lt;nvass@gmx.com</a>&gt;; &quot;vermaden&quot; &amp;<a = href=3D"mailto:lt%3Bvermaden@interia.pl" target=3D"_blank">lt;vermaden@inte= ria.pl</a>&gt;; &quot;freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org&quot; &amp;lt;freebsd-stab= le@FreeBSD.org&gt;; <br>

&gt;&gt; On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29=E2=80=AFam, Miroslav Lachman &amp;<a href= =3D"mailto:lt%3B000.fbsd@quip.cz" target=3D"_blank">lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz</a>= &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [...]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear<br=

&gt;&gt;&gt; separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,<br> &gt;&gt;&gt; without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; The &quot;pkg&quot; command allows you to define aliases in pkg.co= nf.<br>
&gt;&gt; So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define<br> &gt;&gt; &quot;base-upgrade&quot; and &quot;ports-upgrade&quot; aliases to = restrict<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;pkg upgrade&quot; to just the appropriate repositories.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,<br>
&gt; so every computer will have a different command to achieve<br>
&gt; the same result. What an amazing time we live in.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I still don&#39;t think it&#39;s a good idea to combine base system<br=

&gt; updates and package upgrades into a single command by<br>
&gt; default. Now even something as simple as patch level<br>
&gt; security base update can completely break user&#39;s desktop<br>
&gt; if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository <br>
&gt; happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,<br>
&gt; Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.<br>
&gt; (missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from<br>
&gt; the local machine =E2=80=94 I see this problem far too often)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Kind regards<br>
&gt; Miroslav Lachman<br>



I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:<br>

1.<br>
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate<br>
FreeBSD &#39;Base System&#39; and with SQLite database in the<br> /var/db/pkgbase/ directory.<br>

2.<br>
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate<br>
FreeBSD &#39;3rd Party Software&#39; and with SQLite database in<br>
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.<br>

... but seems that is just not wanted.<br>



Regards,<br>
vermaden<br>


</blockquote></div>

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:

1.
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the
/var/db/pkgbase/ directory.

2.
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.

... but seems that is just not wanted.

Regards,
vermaden

... or maybe something in between?

Like a hardlink/symlink/something/... that:


You type:
# pkg 'whatever' ...

It is translated to:
# pkg 'whatever' -r FreeBSD-ports -r FreeBSD-ports-kmods ...


You type:
# pkgbase 'whatever' ...

It is translated to:
# pkg 'whatever' -r FreeBSD-base ...



Just another idea.

Regards,
vermaden



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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

On Mar 19, 2026, at 6:21rC>PM, vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:

Temat: Re: pkg upgrade with inverting match?
Data: 2026-03-19 17:41
Nadawca: "Miroslav Lachman" &lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz>
Adresat: "Paul Mather" &lt;paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu>;
DW: "Nikos Vassiliadis" &lt;nvass@gmx.com>; "vermaden" &lt;vermaden@interia.pl>; "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" &lt;freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>;

On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:
On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29rC>am, Miroslav Lachman &lt;000.fbsd@quip.cz>
wrote:

[...]

First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear
separation of base system upgrades from 3rd packages,
without having to enter 40-character-long arguments.

The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf.
So, if you wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define
"base-upgrade" and "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict
"pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate repositories.

Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way,
so every computer will have a different command to achieve
the same result. What an amazing time we live in.

I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system
updates and package upgrades into a single command by
default. Now even something as simple as patch level
security base update can completely break user's desktop
if package upgrade runs at the same time and repository
happens to be missing such important packages as Firefox,
Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, etc.
(missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from
the local machine rCo I see this problem far too often)

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman

I was proposing the same idea since long time ago:

1.
Separate pkgbase(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD 'Base System' and with SQLite database in the
/var/db/pkgbase/ directory.

2.
Separate pkg(8) command that will only manipulate
FreeBSD '3rd Party Software' and with SQLite database in
the /var/db/pkg/ directory.

... but seems that is just not wanted.

This sort of thing is perfect.
Side effect is the tool used to update the system as a whole gets its own manpage, which can then include some general information for new users on how the overall update process works.
Another thing I enjoy about freebsd-update is the auto-snapshot if you're running zfs on root, I assume that goes away with pkgbase? (please, nobody tell me I can just snapshot it myself)
Charles

Regards,
vermaden

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From Newsgroup: muc.lists.freebsd.stable

Another thing I enjoy about freebsd-update is
the auto-snapshot if you're running zfs on root,
I assume that goes away with pkgbase?
(please, nobody tell me I can just snapshot it myself)

Charles

Yes you can - just create new ZFS Boot Environment
before any changes with beadm(8) or bectl(8) command.

# beadm create before-upgrade

More here: https://is.gd/BECTL

Regards,
vermaden


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