Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
(It's been that long since *I* last has newsgroup availability.)
Thanks for allowing this (stupid?) question!
David
Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
...
Thanks!
Now, any other idea *why* the newsgroup has become so small?
(Maybe us old-farts are dying off, and not being replaced?
Or maybe MS (or is it still M$?) convinced everyone to use them?)
What other editor even competes with emacs? ex/vi/vim I suppose;
anything else?
Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
...
Maybe emacs is a big centre-of-gravity, but creates no noise?
Vast numbers of folk doing a lot of stuff, all contentedly getting on?
That emacs has been stable over decades and looks to stay that way
says it all?
Thanks!
Now, any other idea *why* the newsgroup has become so small?
(Maybe us old-farts are dying off, and not being replaced?
I feel sometimes I'm an exception on Usenet, being under 70 years
old. So I'd assume people are dying off or leaving Usenet behind.
There are things like Reddit and Stack Overflow now that are popular and >where Emacs is actually a topic. I almost say discussed but those
platforms don't have much of it, being more Q&A type of things.
Also, newsgroups have generally become small. I don't think there are >newcomers other than the quintessential Google Groups users who mostly
make their precense known by responding to historical posts from decades >past.
Or maybe MS (or is it still M$?) convinced everyone to use them?)
What other editor even competes with emacs? ex/vi/vim I suppose;
anything else?
Vim certainly but since you mentioned Microsoft, I understand their free >Visual Studio Code is a hugely popular editor.
A couple of weeks ago I posted a question regarding problems with
gnus-cloud. It got zero reactions.
So, how to follow what's happening on Reddit or Stack Overflow (usenet
seems to me like the perfect tool for that kind of thing!). Please
tell me what to do, and I'll try it. (in some detail ... it's
old dogs (in my case) and new tricks! thanks!)
Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
What other editor even competes with emacs? ex/vi/vim I suppose;
anything else?
So, how to follow what's happening on Reddit or Stack Overflow (usenet
seems to me like the perfect tool for that kind of thing!). Please
tell me what to do, and I'll try it. (in some detail ... it's
old dogs (in my case) and new tricks! thanks!)
On 2023-03-26, dkcombs <dkcombs@panix.com> wrote:
Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
I am rather new in the emacs world (less than a year) and I see several people around me (especially on Gophersphere and Geminispace) where it's discussed emacs. So probably new users aren't that rare. My observations
may of course be unrepresentative.
dkcombs@panix.com (dkcombs) writes:
What other editor even competes with emacs? ex/vi/vim I suppose;
anything else?
When a couple of years ago a new employee was struggling with a task I
had assigned to him, to my surprise the editor was the culprit: It
slowed down so much that efficiently editing a 300 MB file was not
possible. I recommended the "youngster" to use Emacs instead of his
current editor (gedit?). After finishing the tutorial he was hooked and speedily completed the task. However, I felt a little bad about
"forcing" such arcane tools on a fresh colleague, so I investigated a
little using
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_text_editors
as a reference. To my surprise, with only a couple of crucial features,
- Open Source
- Available for Windows, macOS, and Linux
- Editing of large files (> 500 MB)
- Editing of rectangles/columns
- Allows for several instances of the editor running simultaneously
- Allows for opening the same file twice (viewing different parts)
- Allows for for multiple frames/windows in the same editor instance
only the emacs and vi "editor families" remained in the game. Most of
the other contestants failed miserably with large files, and there was
not even need to assess the features for using regexes both for the
search and replace patterns (which rules out many other candidates as
well).
So there I was, the "last men standing" both born in 1976 (depending on
what you count as the ancestor of the families), rendering my
recommendation to my "recruit" rather reasonable (I am fine with every
vi fan). I informed him about the "bad" news, "Sorry, no newer
alternatives", but he was happily editing away ever since.
I started with emacs in 1995, and one of the good things of using a tool
for so long is that it really pays off to increase your knowledge,
especially about a tool that is so powerful, extensible, and well
documented. This way, power really grows on you.
Best regards
Axel
I'm guessing the link from email to usenet is broken. I was able to
access the mailing list and the mailing list has activity.
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm guessing the link from email to usenet is broken. I was able to
access the mailing list and the mailing list has activity.
I think the mailing list is still visible through NNTP, but only in
the news.gmane.org server, and that needs registering.
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm guessing the link from email to usenet is broken. I was able to
access the mailing list and the mailing list has activity.
I think the mailing list is still visible through NNTP, but only in
the news.gmane.org server, and that needs registering.
Anyone have a recipe for GNUS to use a second news server to one group?
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone have a recipe for GNUS to use a second news server to one group?
In gmane the group has a diiferent name:
gmane.emacs.help
I don't use gnus myself, but I guess you should start with something like
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
'(
; (nntp "news.mozilla.org") ;
(nntp "news.gmane.io")
)
Have a look at
M-: (describe-variable gnus-secondary-servers)
M-: (describe-variable gnus-secondary-select-methods)
I never tried to reply through gmane, but my guess is that NNTP is
only for reading the archive, and you cannot use NNTP followup and
have to resort to reply by email. Possibly modifying the headers is
needed (I never tried to reply through that interface myself).
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm guessing the link from email to usenet is broken. I was able to
access the mailing list and the mailing list has activity.
I think the mailing list is still visible through NNTP, but only in
the news.gmane.org server, and that needs registering.
According to this 2020 thread https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org/ it's now
news.gmane.io
I didn't see instructions for how to set up GNUS though.
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
It's a bit unconvenient, but not that bad. The Followup to NNTP
is not going to work, but if you reply by email the generated subject
and references headers are valid. You just need to send by email
changing the 'To:' header
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Possibly it can be automated for that particular gmane.emacs.help
newsgroup in some of the gnus-*-hook variables.
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
It's a bit unconvenient, but not that bad. The Followup to NNTP
is not going to work, but if you reply by email the generated subject
and references headers are valid. You just need to send by email
changing the 'To:' header
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Possibly it can be automated for that particular gmane.emacs.help
newsgroup in some of the gnus-*-hook variables.
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
It's a bit unconvenient, but not that bad. The Followup to NNTP
is not going to work, but if you reply by email the generated subject
and references headers are valid. You just need to send by email
changing the 'To:' header
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Possibly it can be automated for that particular gmane.emacs.help
newsgroup in some of the gnus-*-hook variables.
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
It's a bit unconvenient, but not that bad. The Followup to NNTP
is not going to work, but if you reply by email the generated subject
and references headers are valid. You just need to send by email
changing the 'To:' header
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Possibly it can be automated for that particular gmane.emacs.help
newsgroup in some of the gnus-*-hook variables.
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I
haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
Don't you use SMTP for sending?
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I
haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
My incoming mail comes through google, outgoing email goes through some
other (paid) gateway.
I used to do in and out through google, but when they changed a few conditions on the free legacy workspace accounts I had to switch.
I don't use gnus for email thus I'm not sure, I use mh-e which, in my
case, uses postfix to send email out. It was not too difficult to send through google using OAUTH2.
Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
As you indicated, http://news.gmane.io says it's archive only.
If I can't post, I don't think I'll bother.
I did put your info into my gnus.el in case I change my mind.
It's a bit unconvenient, but not that bad. The Followup to NNTP
is not going to work, but if you reply by email the generated subject
and references headers are valid. You just need to send by email
changing the 'To:' header
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Possibly it can be automated for that particular gmane.emacs.help
newsgroup in some of the gnus-*-hook variables.
Well, that brings up another GNUS issue.
Ever since GMAIL changed their IMAP support to require authentication I
haven't been able to send email directly off my box.
Don't you use SMTP for sending?
I don't think SMTP is sufficient to send through Gmail. I'm not an
expert on email.
I used to use IMAP for inbound and outbound email with GNUS.
A while back Google changed their IMAP interface to require
some kind of authorization that I have yet to figure out.
It looked like you had to go to Google to register your email app,
then generate some kind of key which lasts for a while then
you have to change it.
I don't think SMTP is sufficient to send through Gmail. I'm not an
expert on email.
I don't think SMTP is sufficient to send through Gmail. I'm not an
expert on email.
To get email from gmail I use getmail
https://getmail6.org/
not that hard to setup.
To send email to gmail it's a lot more involved.
With postfix I a few entries are needed in main.cf.
Password needs to be entered in a postfix sasl password map.
The password map needs to be updated periodically, as the keys expired
after some time (1 hour?). I do this via cron and python Oauth2 based script.
Postfix chooses the account based on the address in the mail being
sent.
The password map needs to be updated periodically, as the keys expire
But I don't have to do this.
Postfix chooses the account based on the address in the mail being
sent.
I do this too, but that's a different subject. For me postfix not only chooses an account to send "from" but also the relay to use with "to".
The password map needs to be updated periodically, as the keys expire
But I don't have to do this.
Guess I have to update my setup. As described, e.g. here:
https://mmogilvi.users.sourceforge.net/software/oauthbearer.html
it seems that both fetchmail and postfix can now renew the oauth2 token,
but this wasn't the case when I implemented my solution. At the time it
was only possible by patching fetchmail (and maybe postfix), which I
didn't want to do and maintain.
HASM <hasm@example.invalid> writes:
Postfix chooses the account based on the address in the mail being
sent.
I do this too, but that's a different subject. For me postfix not only
chooses an account to send "from" but also the relay to use with "to".
Of course. I'm not sure what you thought I meant. Once postfix has
the mail, it relays it based on the from header.
The password map needs to be updated periodically, as the keys expire
But I don't have to do this.
Guess I have to update my setup. As described, e.g. here:
https://mmogilvi.users.sourceforge.net/software/oauthbearer.html
I don't do it that way. I went the route described as step 1 in that document:
1. Configure your gmail (or equivalent) account to enable IMAP and/or
POP access. If it will let you set up an "application password"
instead of OAUTH2, that would generally be a whole lot simpler and
arguably just as secure.
but for SMTP sending.
Thanks for the link. One day I am sure I will be forced to do it the
hard way.
it seems that both fetchmail and postfix can now renew the oauth2 token,
but this wasn't the case when I implemented my solution. At the time it
was only possible by patching fetchmail (and maybe postfix), which I
didn't want to do and maintain.
When I did it, there was no oauth2 (as far as I can recall) and I've
used the same setup, unchanged, since then.
Postfix chooses the account based on the address in the mail being
sent.
I do this too, but that's a different subject. For me postfix not only chooses an account to send "from" but also the relay to use with "to".
The password map needs to be updated periodically, as the keys expire
But I don't have to do this.
Guess I have to update my setup. As described, e.g. here:
https://mmogilvi.users.sourceforge.net/software/oauthbearer.html
it seems that both fetchmail and postfix can now renew the oauth2 token,
but this wasn't the case when I implemented my solution. At the time it
was only possible by patching fetchmail (and maybe postfix), which I
didn't want to do and maintain.
I went the route described as step 1 in that document:In Google's "Sign in with App Passwords" help page, they say:
1. ... If it will let you set up an "application password" instead of OAUTH2
One day I am sure I will be forced to do it the hard way.I was forced and it took me a while to do it back then. Hopefully
I don't see any "application password" option.
I went the route described as step 1 in that document:
1. ... If it will let you set up an "application password" instead of OAUTH2
In Google's "Sign in with App Passwords" help page, they say:
Under "Signing in to Google," select App Passwords.
You may need to sign in.
If you donrCOt have this option, it might be because:
...
Your account is through work, school, or other organization.
and I fall under the "other organization", i.e. I don't have a
@gmail.com address, but a @mydomain.tl address, hosted on gmail.
I don't see any "application password" option.
Subject line says it all. Has emacs usage gone down?
(It's been that long since *I* last has newsgroup availability.)
everything is web based these days. usenet is now used with google
groups.
steve <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
everything is web based these days. usenet is now used with google
groups.
Google Groups stopped its usenet interface recently (in February, if I
recall correctly).
-- HASM
Though a computer user since the 60's, I've never used Emacs.
[had minimal contact with TECO back in 70's]
Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> writes:
[...]
Though a computer user since the 60's, I've never used Emacs.
[had minimal contact with TECO back in 70's]
Hey there. How nice! What year did you begin to use UNIX? What were
your first impressions? Did you think it would be the revolution that
it has been?
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
https://tildeverse.org/
https://sdf.org/
https://sdfeu.org/w/
https://emacs.ch (Mastodon, the ideal place to test mastodon.el)--
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
I don't even use the email address from my main provider to minimise the locked in effect. Eternal-September and similar news providers do a
good job and them being independent from my internet provider feels like
a good thing.
If you want a bit web-, gopher-, gemini-space and email somewhere, look
for a pubnix offering such. As positive side effect you get some more digital neighbours too.
E.g.:Says that "pubnixes" is abbreviation for "public access unix systems".
https://tildeverse.org/
In 6/23 paid ARPA and VPM membership dues but email unsatisfying.https://sdf.org/
Without informative content.https://sdfeu.org/w/
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
I don't even use the email address from my main provider to minimise the locked in effect.
Eternal-September and similar news providers do a good job and them
being independent from my internet provider feels like a good thing.
If you want a bit web-, gopher-, gemini-space and email somewhere, look
for a pubnix offering such. As positive side effect you get some more digital neighbours too.
E.g.:--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
https://tildeverse.org/
https://sdf.org/
https://sdfeu.org/w/
Apropos neighbours:
https://emacs.ch (Mastodon, the ideal place to test mastodon.el)
On 08/09/2024 05:18 PM, yeti wrote:
Just what is a "pubnix"????????????
Web search more confusin than educational ;{
Says that "pubnixes" is abbreviation for "public access unix systems". Nomore. {apologies to THE raven ;}
In 6/23 paid ARPA and VPM membership dues but email unsatisfying.
In 9/23 went with paid email provider.
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
I'm still here, using news.solani.org
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
I'm still here, using news.solani.org
I'm still here as well, using news.eternal-september.org.
I wish the emacs-help were gatewayed here. Similarly for emacs-devel.
I need to subscribe to them and then use public-inbox to mirror them and
then set up Gnus to read those public inboxes. :) It's a bit of work!
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to >>>>> USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
I'm still here, using news.solani.org
I'm still here as well, using news.eternal-september.org.
I wish the emacs-help were gatewayed here. Similarly for emacs-devel.
I need to subscribe to them and then use public-inbox to mirror them and
then set up Gnus to read those public inboxes. :) It's a bit of work!
FWIW the emacs-help list is available on NNTP via the Gmane
bidirectional news/mail gateway; connect to the news.gmane.io news
server and subscribe to gmane.emacs.help.
"W. Greenhouse" <wgreenhouse@tilde.club> writes:
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to >>>>>> USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
I'm still here, using news.solani.org
I'm still here as well, using news.eternal-september.org.
I wish the emacs-help were gatewayed here. Similarly for emacs-devel.
I need to subscribe to them and then use public-inbox to mirror them and >>> then set up Gnus to read those public inboxes. :) It's a bit of work!
FWIW the emacs-help list is available on NNTP via the Gmane
bidirectional news/mail gateway; connect to the news.gmane.io news
server and subscribe to gmane.emacs.help.
What are the rules for posting there? I must post with a from-header
using the e-mail address with which I subscribed myself to the mailing
list? Is that it?
Thanks for the info.
The Gmane gateway has its own independent subscription. You just post
with some valid mail address in From, and reply (by email) to the autoreply the
system sends out, and after that you can post by news.
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
"W. Greenhouse" <wgreenhouse@tilde.club> writes:
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to >>>>>>> USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
I'm still here, using news.solani.org
I'm still here as well, using news.eternal-september.org.
I wish the emacs-help were gatewayed here. Similarly for emacs-devel. >>>> I need to subscribe to them and then use public-inbox to mirror them and >>>> then set up Gnus to read those public inboxes. :) It's a bit of work!
FWIW the emacs-help list is available on NNTP via the Gmane
bidirectional news/mail gateway; connect to the news.gmane.io news
server and subscribe to gmane.emacs.help.
What are the rules for posting there? I must post with a from-header
using the e-mail address with which I subscribed myself to the mailing
list? Is that it?
Thanks for the info.
The Gmane gateway has its own independent subscription. You just post
with some valid mail address in From, and reply (by email) to the autoreply the
system sends out, and after that you can post by news.
If you want to obscure your email address, you may do an "X-Archive:
encrypt" header, which creates a Gmane mail alias (which people can
really reply to by mail, if they wish).
"W. Greenhouse" <wgreenhouse@tilde.club> writes:
The Gmane gateway has its own independent subscription. You just post
with some valid mail address in From, and reply (by email) to the
autoreply the
system sends out, and after that you can post by news.
That depends on the mailing list though. At least the Python mailing
list doesn't allow posting via Gmane and they require subscription
too. Seems overkill, the list has gone fairly quiet since discussion
moved to a forum.
"W. Greenhouse" <wgreenhouse@tilde.club> writes:
The Gmane gateway has its own independent subscription. You just post
with some valid mail address in From, and reply (by email) to the autoreply the
system sends out, and after that you can post by news.
That depends on the mailing list though. At least the Python mailing
list doesn't allow posting via Gmane and they require subscription
too. Seems overkill, the list has gone fairly quiet since discussion
moved to a forum.
Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> writes:
"W. Greenhouse" <wgreenhouse@tilde.club> writes:
The Gmane gateway has its own independent subscription. You just post
with some valid mail address in From, and reply (by email) to the
autoreply the
system sends out, and after that you can post by news.
That depends on the mailing list though. At least the Python mailing
list doesn't allow posting via Gmane and they require subscription
too. Seems overkill, the list has gone fairly quiet since discussion
moved to a forum.
I'd really love to see a move back to Usenet/NNTP. I know Thunderbird has builtin support and I imagine other MUAs do as well, so set up wouldn't be too
technical for most people.
IDK, maybe I'm just being nostalgic.
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> writes:
I'd really love to see a move back to Usenet/NNTP. I know Thunderbird has builtin support and I imagine other MUAs do as well, so set up wouldn't be too
technical for most people.
IDK, maybe I'm just being nostalgic.
Rust Buckett <rust@fakedomain.nope> writes:
steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> writes:< >
< > Maybe ISP (internet service providers) could start to offer access to
< > USEnet, email, and ftp to their clients again.
< >
Those were the good old days when your ISP hosted an NNTP server.
yes and enough space to run your own web page! Things chage but stay the same; I am listening to my SDR radio .
On 2026-03-29 at 19:49, <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> wrote:
Steve, why do you partly use "< " as a
`message-yank-cited-prefix'? I've never seen that before. It will
sure break some other people's setup.
Hello I disagree.
< Hellow I disagree
I also find it convenient to read. Emacs font-locking will switch to another color ; I got sick of reading
messages that started with
Hello I disagree.
so I thought
< Hellow I disagree
would standout. in emacs the colors are different so it make it easier
for me to read.
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