I have faint memories on a communication tool that I think have used
on a DEC VAX under VMS in the 1980's. Unlike the common modern tools
like chat systems or SMS exchange on mobile phones it didn't operate line-wise or message-wise, but rather (synchronous) character-wise.
And I think it was a tool usable only to connect people on the same
system (but I'm not sure about that). I thought its name would have
been 'talk' but searching the web led me to a document "VMS Phone
Utility Manual"[*] which describes such a tool (it's actually called
'phone') and it seems to be what I still remember about the tool I'm
looking for.
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Slackware comes with a utility called "talk", it is
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
disabled by default. It sounds like what you are
looking for. It allows 2 people to 'text' each other.
https://www.slackbook.org/html/basic-network-commands-talk.html
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Slackware comes with a utility called "talk", it is
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
disabled by default. It sounds like what you are
looking for. It allows 2 people to 'text' each other.
https://www.slackbook.org/html/basic-network-commands-talk.html
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. Even MacOS has it installed.
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
On 08.12.2024 17:25, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Slackware comes with a utility called "talk", it is
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
disabled by default. It sounds like what you are
looking for. It allows 2 people to 'text' each other.
https://www.slackbook.org/html/basic-network-commands-talk.html
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >> Even MacOS has it installed.
As said, I think the historic DEC/VAX tool worked (also) only
locally; you had to log into the same VMS-system to communicate.
I'm actually looking for a tool that works across distributed
[Unix-]systems.
I'll look into the tools suggested so far what they provide.
ytalk would fit the requirements, I think, but itrCOs been abandonware
for the last couple of decades.
works is brittle and doesn't work well over the modern Internet.
In particular, it is de-facto limited to IPv4 and doesn't
play well with firewalls: it involves sending the contents of a
`sockaddr_in` across the network, and using that to set up a
(direct) TCP connection between processes. One could imagine
On 08.12.2024 17:25, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >> Even MacOS has it installed.
<snip>
As said, I think the historic DEC/VAX tool worked (also) only
locally; you had to log into the same VMS-system to communicate.
I'm actually looking for a tool that works across distributed
[Unix-]systems.
On 08.12.2024 17:25, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Slackware comes with a utility called "talk", it is
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
disabled by default. It sounds like what you are
looking for. It allows 2 people to 'text' each other.
https://www.slackbook.org/html/basic-network-commands-talk.html
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >> Even MacOS has it installed.
As said, I think the historic DEC/VAX tool worked (also) only
locally; you had to log into the same VMS-system to communicate.
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:36:35 -0000 (UTC)
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wibbled:
works is brittle and doesn't work well over the modern Internet.
In particular, it is de-facto limited to IPv4 and doesn't
play well with firewalls: it involves sending the contents of a >>`sockaddr_in` across the network, and using that to set up a
(direct) TCP connection between processes. One could imagine
Huh? I don't get how that works.
You need a connection in the first place to
send anything unless you use a broadcast UDP address. You can't just >automagically set up a connection without the OS network layer playing its >part.
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:06:38 +0100
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wibbled:
On 08.12.2024 17:25, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat.
<snip>
Even MacOS has it installed.
As said, I think the historic DEC/VAX tool worked (also) only
locally; you had to log into the same VMS-system to communicate.
I'm actually looking for a tool that works across distributed
[Unix-]systems.
Set up an IRC server or there's plenty of telnet based talker programs.
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. Even MacOS has it installed.
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
I have faint memories on a communication tool that I think have used
on a DEC VAX under VMS in the 1980's. Unlike the common modern tools
like chat systems or SMS exchange on mobile phones it didn't operate
line-wise or message-wise, but rather (synchronous) character-wise.
And I think it was a tool usable only to connect people on the same
system (but I'm not sure about that). I thought its name would have
been 'talk' but searching the web led me to a document "VMS Phone
Utility Manual"[*] which describes such a tool (it's actually called
'phone') and it seems to be what I still remember about the tool I'm
looking for.
Some characteristics I'd prefer - not all supported by the 'phone'
utility - are that it's
* text-oriented (preferably with Unicode support), fast (no GUI)
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
* optionally: switching modes (instant/character-wise, line-wise)
* more than two persons can communicate
* works across distributed [Unix-]systems
Is there such a tool (free of charge and open source) available for
Linux? (Or something that comes close?)
ytalk would fit the requirements, I think, but itrCOs been abandonware
for the last couple of decades.
What an idiotically complicated way to set up a simple TCP connection.
Muttley wrote:
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >> Even MacOS has it installed.
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX-< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 09:37:54 +0100
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wibbled:
On 09.12.2024 09:23, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:06:38 +0100
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wibbled:
I'm actually looking for a tool that works across distributed
[Unix-]systems.
Set up an IRC server or there's plenty of telnet based talker programs.
WRT IRC you may have missed the requirements in my OP; one was:
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
I suggest you consult harry potter for that then.
In the real world server
software is required whether its IRC, Teams, Slack etc.
I haven't heard of "telnet based talker programs"; care to be
more concrete?
Talk servers that allow you to telnet to them to chat to other people.
Clearly you have done zero research on this.
On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 12:49:21 -0000 (UTC)
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wibbled:
In article <vj69hi$asvu$1@dont-email.me>, <Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org> wrote: >>>On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:36:35 -0000 (UTC)
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wibbled:
works is brittle and doesn't work well over the modern Internet.
In particular, it is de-facto limited to IPv4 and doesn't
play well with firewalls: it involves sending the contents of a >>>>`sockaddr_in` across the network, and using that to set up a
(direct) TCP connection between processes. One could imagine
Huh? I don't get how that works.
Yes.
You need a connection in the first place to
send anything unless you use a broadcast UDP address. You can't just >>>automagically set up a connection without the OS network layer playing its >>>part.
A `sockaddr_in` is just a data structure that names a socket
address. For the Internet family, it's just got a few things in
it: an address, a port number, a family type, and length.
That's basically it.
The walk `talk` works, the client sets up a TCP listening
socket, and then sends the address for that to the `talk` daemon
both locally and at the distant end; the talk daemon at the
distant end then alerts the destired user that someone wants to
talk to them.
Assuming that person wants to respond, _they_ invoke their
talk client, which talks to the local talk daemon, sees the
pending request, retrieves the socket address structure, and
uses it to connect to the originating user's talk client's
TCP listening socket.
The connection to the talk daemon isn't connection oriented
at all; it's done via a UDP packet. That is, the talk client
creates a listening TCP socket, takes the (binary) address
of the listening socket, embeds that address in a UDP packet,
sends that over the network, and on the distant end that
informatio is used to create a (TCP) connection back to the
origin.
What an idiotically complicated way to set up a simple TCP connection.
In article <vj69hi$asvu$1@dont-email.me>, <Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org> wrote: >>On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:36:35 -0000 (UTC)
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wibbled:
works is brittle and doesn't work well over the modern Internet.
In particular, it is de-facto limited to IPv4 and doesn't
play well with firewalls: it involves sending the contents of a >>>`sockaddr_in` across the network, and using that to set up a
(direct) TCP connection between processes. One could imagine
Huh? I don't get how that works.
Yes.
You need a connection in the first place to
send anything unless you use a broadcast UDP address. You can't just >>automagically set up a connection without the OS network layer playing its >>part.
A `sockaddr_in` is just a data structure that names a socket
address. For the Internet family, it's just got a few things in
it: an address, a port number, a family type, and length.
That's basically it.
The walk `talk` works, the client sets up a TCP listening
socket, and then sends the address for that to the `talk` daemon
both locally and at the distant end; the talk daemon at the
distant end then alerts the destired user that someone wants to
talk to them.
Assuming that person wants to respond, _they_ invoke their
talk client, which talks to the local talk daemon, sees the
pending request, retrieves the socket address structure, and
uses it to connect to the originating user's talk client's
TCP listening socket.
The connection to the talk daemon isn't connection oriented
at all; it's done via a UDP packet. That is, the talk client
creates a listening TCP socket, takes the (binary) address
of the listening socket, embeds that address in a UDP packet,
sends that over the network, and on the distant end that
informatio is used to create a (TCP) connection back to the
origin.
Muttley wrote:
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to
chat.
Even MacOS has it installed.
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX-< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
On 09.12.2024 10:11, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
comment address in any way my question? - I don't know anything
about "Harry Potter", BTW; if you want to discuss that better
open an own post in an appropriate newsgroup.
In the real world server
software is required whether its IRC, Teams, Slack etc.
(I think this statement is not true in a [software-]world where
peer-to-peer software designs are not uncommon. Just aside.)
Clearly you have done zero research on this.
Not true. The search term "telnet based talker programs" that you
emitted did not not provide sensible information to my requirements.
If you know something concrete on my topic - which I now doubt - or
Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> writes:
Muttley wrote:
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat.
Even MacOS has it installed.
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX-< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
I was surprised by that. Do you happen to know what motivated its
inclusion?
While this thread does show that thererCOs some demand for the
application, it seems a surprising thing to include in a OS specification.
On 09.12.2024 09:23, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:06:38 +0100
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wibbled:
On 08.12.2024 17:25, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 14:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
John McCue <jmccue@whitedwf.jmcunx.com> wibbled:
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to >chat.
<snip>
Even MacOS has it installed.
As said, I think the historic DEC/VAX tool worked (also) only
locally; you had to log into the same VMS-system to communicate.
I'm actually looking for a tool that works across distributed
[Unix-]systems.
Set up an IRC server or there's plenty of telnet based talker programs.
WRT IRC you may have missed the requirements in my OP; one was:
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
I haven't heard of "telnet based talker programs"; care to be
more concrete?
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >Even MacOS has it installed.
Muttley wrote:
talk is an age old unix util that allows people on the same machine to chat. >> Even MacOS has it installed.
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX-< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
$ uname -a
Darwin Mac-Studio 23.2.0 Darwin Kernel Version 23.2.0: Wed Nov 15 21:55:06 >PST 2023; root:xnu-10002.61.3~2/RELEASE_ARM64_T6020 arm64
On 09.12.2024 10:11, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:...
On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 09:37:54 +0100
WRT IRC you may have missed the requirements in my OP; one was:
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
I suggest you consult harry potter for that then.
(I suppose here you just want play the troll.) But how does that
comment address in any way my question? - I don't know anything
about "Harry Potter", BTW; if you want to discuss that better
open an own post in an appropriate newsgroup.
On 12/9/24 10:21, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
On 09.12.2024 10:11, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:....
On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 09:37:54 +0100
WRT IRC you may have missed the requirements in my OP; one was:
* instantly/synchronously exchanging any typed characters
I suggest you consult harry potter for that then.
(I suppose here you just want play the troll.) But how does that
comment address in any way my question? - I don't know anything
about "Harry Potter", BTW; if you want to discuss that better
open an own post in an appropriate newsgroup.
Key feature of "Harry Potter" - he lives in a world where magic is real.
This is Muttley's way of telling you that he thinks that your
specification can only be achieved by using magic, that it's
incompatible with the real world.
Taken literally, "instantly" is indeed impossible, but I doubt that you >intended it literally.
Geoff Clare , dans le message
<at8j2l-elf.ln1@ID-313840.user.individual.net>, a |-crit-a:
"Even" MacOS? It's required for UNIX-< conformance - if MacOS didn't
have talk, it wouldn't be able to be certified as UNIX.
Or they would have paid a little more money and that requirement would have been discarded.
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 17:57:00 -0500...
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wibbled:
On 12/9/24 10:21, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
(I suppose here you just want play the troll.) But how does that
comment address in any way my question? - I don't know anything
about "Harry Potter", BTW; if you want to discuss that better
open an own post in an appropriate newsgroup.
Key feature of "Harry Potter" - he lives in a world where magic is real.
You have to wonder what cave he lives in never to have heard of Harry
Potter.
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