• Re: Is a Universal Turing Machine a von Neumann computer?

    From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory on Mon Sep 28 11:30:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 06/06/2015 10:27 PM, X.Y. Newberry wrote:
    Xcott Craver wrote:
    On 2015-06-04 02:26:40 +0000, X.Y. Newberry said:

    One characteristic of von Neumann architecture is that programs are
    able to inspect themselves, even to modify themselves.

    Write any computer program in any conventional language that performs
    introspection
    or self modification. This program can be emulated by a Turing
    machine, by
    emulating the environment or program interpreter.

    Sure.

    You may object that the TM is not truly inspecting _itself_, but
    emulating an environment wherein an emulated program inspects its
    emulated self. However, that's also true of a real-world von Neumann
    machine: the machine cannot physically inspect its real self, e.g.
    observe the voltages on individual transistors comprising its ALU. The
    only thing capable of self-inspection is a program that is at some level
    interpreted, which can only observe itself within an abstracted
    environment implemented by some unobservable layer beneath.

    Irrelevant.


    --S




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory on Tue Sep 29 09:40:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 09/28/2026 11:30 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 06/06/2015 10:27 PM, X.Y. Newberry wrote:
    Xcott Craver wrote:
    On 2015-06-04 02:26:40 +0000, X.Y. Newberry said:

    One characteristic of von Neumann architecture is that programs are
    able to inspect themselves, even to modify themselves.

    Write any computer program in any conventional language that performs
    introspection
    or self modification. This program can be emulated by a Turing
    machine, by
    emulating the environment or program interpreter.

    Sure.

    You may object that the TM is not truly inspecting _itself_, but
    emulating an environment wherein an emulated program inspects its
    emulated self. However, that's also true of a real-world von Neumann
    machine: the machine cannot physically inspect its real self, e.g.
    observe the voltages on individual transistors comprising its ALU. The
    only thing capable of self-inspection is a program that is at some level >>> interpreted, which can only observe itself within an abstracted
    environment implemented by some unobservable layer beneath.

    Irrelevant.


    --S






    This points to that Turing is memoryless.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2