I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
I'll be honest with you. If it were determined tomorrow that MacOS isn't
a true UNIX, absolutely nothing would change in my life. I would still
enjoy my experience using the operating system and the company's stellar hardware.
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses
Unix as the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in
fact - the most popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro"
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple
uses Unix as the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix
is - in fact - the most popular version of Unix in the 50 year
history of Unix.
On Sep 20, 2026 at 11:13:20rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:35:28 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 20, 2026 at 9:02:14rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro"
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:
Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and
not at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.
You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?
YOU do realize that changing the GUI on Linux is beyond the
capabilities of USERS, right?
Why, do you think it takes some kind of special voodoo black magic
beyond installing any other package?
For a USER, yes.
Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept
of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.
MacOS is a Unix-type system.
It is a licensee of the trademark, nothing more. And worse than that,
the version of the rCLUNIXrCY spec it conforms to is not the latest one,
but was last updated over 20 years ago.
And exactly how recent Unix spec does Linux conform to?
AGAIN, Apple Unix already has several GUIs. Interesting how you
snipped that. MacOS, iOS, iPadOS and WatchOS are all Apple Unix, but
with different GUIs
And you certainly canrCOt install a different GUI on it.
Why would you want to?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 21:13:27 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'll be honest with you. If it were determined tomorrow that MacOS isn't
a true UNIX, absolutely nothing would change in my life. I would still
enjoy my experience using the operating system and the company's stellar
hardware.
I've spent enough time on AIX, IBM's Unix variant based on System V and certified under the Single UNIX Specification that being a True UNIX
doesn't impress me.
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.
I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.
Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.
I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.
On 2026-09-22, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.
I agree.
I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.
I never have been interested. It always turns into a male ego mine is bigger than yours
discussion.
Use what you like and don't expect others to agree.
I personally believe that the
rCLsoftware must be freerCY crowd just canrCOt handle the fact that:
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
(2) The most popular version of Linux is Android, which is also controlled
by a trillion dollar corporation. In fact, Android is the most used OS in the world, with around 4 billion users.
Those are facts, folks. Feel free to stamp your feet and deny them.
That is, if you enjoy going through life denying reality.
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) ...
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2026-09-22, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!
DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on >>>>> their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.
I agree.
I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.
I never have been interested. It always turns into a male ego mine is bigger than yours
discussion.
Use what you like and don't expect others to agree.
I agree with that. The argument ALWAYS comes down to rCLThe software I use is for men and therefore I am a man. Whatever YOU use is for pussies and therefore you are a pussyrCY.
Yawn.
But I am just pointing out facts here. I personally believe that the rCLsoftware must be freerCY crowd just canrCOt handle the fact that:
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
(2) The most popular version of Linux is Android, which is also controlled
by a trillion dollar corporation. In fact, Android is the most used OS in the world, with around 4 billion users.
Those are facts, folks. Feel free to stamp your feet and deny them.
That is, if you enjoy going through life denying reality.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.
On 2026-09-27 11:37 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.
I've said it before: not one Apple users gives a hoot whether MacOS,
iOS, tvOS or watchOS have UNIX certification. They would merrily
continue using Apple products even if the company were banned from
putting the UNIX label on its creations. At no time in my day do I say
"Gee willickers, this software sure would be neater if adhered to the standards set by neck-bearded fat men who are never pleased!"
Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have already
done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:58:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-27 11:37 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.
I've said it before: not one Apple users gives a hoot whether MacOS,
iOS, tvOS or watchOS have UNIX certification. They would merrily
continue using Apple products even if the company were banned from
putting the UNIX label on its creations. At no time in my day do I say
"Gee willickers, this software sure would be neater if adhered to the
standards set by neck-bearded fat men who are never pleased!"
As I've said I don't see UNIX certification to be a selling point and
don't know why Apple users find it important.
AIX is UNIX V7 compliant but
not something I'd want for a daily driver.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have already
done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.
DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.
openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in a
VM for some reason.
On 2026-09-28 2:05 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have
already done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.
DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.
openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in
a VM for some reason.
Some of their releases are bootable from a thumb drive, some are not. I
don't know why so many distributions don't work when loaded onto thumb drives, but Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Pop_OS! and Fedora always work. Either
way, that inconsistency is part of why I lost interest in not only Linux
but the PC in general. It is truly bizarre to be using a computer that I don't need to run repair commands on, and which will probably never need
to be reinstalled.
I agree that the certification is meaningless. If it were that important
to people, the many UNIX variants through the 90s and 2000s would have
sold machines. They didn't.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 17:40:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-28 2:05 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have
already done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.
DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.
openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in
a VM for some reason.
Some of their releases are bootable from a thumb drive, some are not. I
don't know why so many distributions don't work when loaded onto thumb
drives, but Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Pop_OS! and Fedora always work. Either
way, that inconsistency is part of why I lost interest in not only Linux
but the PC in general. It is truly bizarre to be using a computer that I
don't need to run repair commands on, and which will probably never need
to be reinstalled.
https://www.openmandriva.org/info-rome/
"If in doubt, take the first one." so I did, Plasma X11. The host is Fedora/KDE/Wayland but that shouldn't make a difference. MX/Xfce/X11 works fine. Creating the kvm/QEMU VM from the iso resulted in a very sluggish session. Installing from there seemed to work but on reboot after installation it hung. I don't know if Plasma/Wayland would have been
better. It's an older Intel processor so the AMD builds are out.
It was curiosity since I had used Mandrake 8.0 back in the day. It was one
of the easiest distros to get running.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 14:12:23 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I agree that the certification is meaningless. If it were that important
to people, the many UNIX variants through the 90s and 2000s would have
sold machines. They didn't.
They sold machines, just not to consumers. A company I worked for had *nix
on a PDP-11, not exactly what Pop is going to pick up at Computer World.
* in the late '70s Research Linux was free for educational institutions. Since this was Boston UNIX somehow slipped out the back door of places
like MIT and wandered the streets looking for a home. Like many fugitives
it adopted aliases, most of which ended in 'nix'.
Considering how open people were to learning computers back in the 80s,
I think it might have been a mistake not to load UNIX on a few of them.
Most of the hardware was underpowered, but I'm sure that something like
an Atari ST or an Amiga would have done a decent job with it had they
not opted for a more user-friendly interface. However, I think that even then,
it would have been introduced to users much in the way that it is with
MacOS: it's there, but you don't have to touch it.
Since I killed my PC laptop, I decided to "upgrade" to an Intel-based replacement through the purchase of a used MSI GF75 Thin I found at the nearby second-hand store. I bought it _only_ to complete the backlog of
PC games I have, but I was happy to learn that the idiotic fTPM
stuttering AMD processor come with doesn't affect this particular
machine. As such, I can hold onto Windows and not bother with Linux (to escape fTPM) like I did on the previous hardware. Nevertheless, that PC
is a representation of everything wrong with the PC market: the battery
lasts an hour or so (this one is 50% worn, but even new it didn't last
more than two hours), the body is plastic made to look like metal, the
screen is about 1/4 the brightness of the MacBook Air, and Windows is
clunky even if it responds fairly well. As such, it serves not only as a modest game machine but a reminder of why I should remain with the Mac.
On the bright side, it is incredibly easy to repair and upgrade, and
changing the battery won't potentially kill the unit the way ASUS's
machine did. Repairability and upgradeability are pretty much the only advantages of having a PC nowadays.
On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:39:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Considering how open people were to learning computers back in the 80s,
I think it might have been a mistake not to load UNIX on a few of them.
Most of the hardware was underpowered, but I'm sure that something like
an Atari ST or an Amiga would have done a decent job with it had they
not opted for a more user-friendly interface. However, I think that even
then,
it would have been introduced to users much in the way that it is with
MacOS: it's there, but you don't have to touch it.
The problem with UNIX was licensing. Bell Labs was in a strange position
as part of the Bell System empire as more people were looking at it as a monopoly. They couldn't market the earlier versions of 'research unix' although they could give it to colleges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix
Xenix' history is even more convoluted. When AT&T finally got around to selling/licensing UNIX Microsoft dropped out. Then came SCO.
Licensing has always been a mess and as something designed to be a
multiuser OS it would be overkill in the consumer PC market with the costs attached.
I know nothing about the Mac world. Does Apple still have a product like
OS X Server?
On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:34:15 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Since I killed my PC laptop, I decided to "upgrade" to an Intel-based
replacement through the purchase of a used MSI GF75 Thin I found at the
nearby second-hand store. I bought it _only_ to complete the backlog of
PC games I have, but I was happy to learn that the idiotic fTPM
stuttering AMD processor come with doesn't affect this particular
machine. As such, I can hold onto Windows and not bother with Linux (to
escape fTPM) like I did on the previous hardware. Nevertheless, that PC
is a representation of everything wrong with the PC market: the battery
lasts an hour or so (this one is 50% worn, but even new it didn't last
more than two hours), the body is plastic made to look like metal, the
screen is about 1/4 the brightness of the MacBook Air, and Windows is
clunky even if it responds fairly well. As such, it serves not only as a
modest game machine but a reminder of why I should remain with the Mac.
On the bright side, it is incredibly easy to repair and upgrade, and
changing the battery won't potentially kill the unit the way ASUS's
machine did. Repairability and upgradeability are pretty much the only
advantages of having a PC nowadays.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GF75-Thin-10SDR-Laptop-Review-For- Budget-Gamers.497939.0.html
As usual, you buy 'budget' Windows computers and complain they're not as polished as expensive Macs. You get what you pay for.
As far as I know, the company does. However, I can't imagine that Apple
too deeply into the market since their hardware in that category is
seldom mentioned by the Mac news sites (9to5 Mac, MacRumors, etc.). At
some point, I get the impression that Apple realized the creative users
are their most important customers, not the server people, and decided
to cater to them the most.
On the older, premium laptop I killed, its own wireless chip was a
MediaTek MT7921. Do a search on the web and see how many people complain about how awful it is. It was so bad - on a premium laptop - that people
with no repair experience were willing to open their machines to switch
it with an Intel one.
On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:35:19 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
As far as I know, the company does. However, I can't imagine that Apple
too deeply into the market since their hardware in that category is
seldom mentioned by the Mac news sites (9to5 Mac, MacRumors, etc.). At
some point, I get the impression that Apple realized the creative users
are their most important customers, not the server people, and decided
to cater to them the most.
That's been my impression too since the days of the Apple II. Desktop publishing, artwork, and so forth, certainly not C programmers since the keyboard was missing some essential characters without doing some mapping. Then there was the Z-80 SoftCard to turn it into a CP/M machine in case
you wanted to run business software or program in something other than
BASIC or 6502 assembler.
Even today Apple gets a lot of product placement but the people you see working on the laptops with the familiar logo aren't programmers.
As I've said many times I don't have anything against Apple but nobody
ever wanted to pay me to develop Apple software so I had no cause to buy their hardware. The company did buy a Mac Mini to compile an iOS app but
the project ultimately was dropped. Getting into the walled garden was too much of a hassle.
On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 17:06:33 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
On the older, premium laptop I killed, its own wireless chip was a
MediaTek MT7921. Do a search on the web and see how many people complain
about how awful it is. It was so bad - on a premium laptop - that people
with no repair experience were willing to open their machines to switch
it with an Intel one.
The BeeLink mini I run Ubuntu on has a "MEDIATEK MT7921K 6E 80MHz". I have has no problems whatsoever. The Qualcomm Atheros on the older Dell box
was slow and tended to drop out.
The real PITA is the Broadcom in the old Acer netbook. Most distros don't recognize it some I use a Panda dongle for the install and then update the driver so it works.
When Mint went from the 6.13 kernel to 6.17 I again had problems with
dkms. Oddly I found the solution on a Mac forum.
I fear that ha a lot to do with why gaming is not stronger on the
platform. Clearly, the hardware is capable of running a good chunk of
the games out there, but few companies are bothering to port their stuff
to Metal because the numbers just aren't there. Even if there are
millions of people using Apple hardware, those millions won't
necessarily buy a game. Those who would have swallowed their pride and
bought a PC suited for that purpose, even if they don't like the
operating system or the hardware.
On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 12:01:52 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I fear that ha a lot to do with why gaming is not stronger on the
platform. Clearly, the hardware is capable of running a good chunk of
the games out there, but few companies are bothering to port their stuff
to Metal because the numbers just aren't there. Even if there are
millions of people using Apple hardware, those millions won't
necessarily buy a game. Those who would have swallowed their pride and
bought a PC suited for that purpose, even if they don't like the
operating system or the hardware.
Between the hoops you have to jump through to get in the Apple store and
the cut Apple wants from in game revenue game developers seen greener pastures elsewhere.
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