Reading this article about a new cross-platform AI development
environment <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4211593/hands-on-with-unsloth-desktop-for-running-and-training-llms-locally.html>,
I went to the product website and had a look at the install scripts,
out of curiosity.
The Mac install shares the same script as the Linux one. However, that
common script is full of bits to work around Mac oddities like this:
# Without the Xcode CLT, macOS still ships /usr/bin/git as a stub that errors and pops
# a GUI dialog, so `command -v git` is not enough -- only running it tells the truth.
_has_working_git() {
command -v git >/dev/null 2>&1 || return 1
# Executing the probe is the problem on macOS: /usr/bin/git is a Command Line Tools
# shim, so `git --version` against it raises the "install the command line developer
# tools" GUI dialog -- the probe firing the dialog it exists to detect.
Answer from the
# resolved path instead when it is that exact shim and no toolchain is selected.
#
# Narrow on purpose. Only /usr/bin/git is a shim: a Homebrew, MacPorts or Xcode.app git
# earlier on PATH is a real binary and is still probed by executing it.
Intel macOS can
# also ship a working /usr/bin/git after CLT masking, so MAC_INTEL must
probe that path;
# only Apple Silicon treats it as the known dialog shim without execution. xcode-select
# -p only asks which toolchain is selected and never prompts.
# The hardware decides, not the shell: MAC_INTEL is also true for an x86_64 shell under
# Rosetta, where /usr/bin/git is still the arm64 machine's dialog shim,
so _MAC_ROSETTA
# puts that host back on the non-executing branch.
# $OS is the platform detected above, not a fresh `uname` call: this can run with a
# scrubbed PATH where uname is not resolvable, and a failed probe there
would silently
# fall through to executing the shim. _CLT_GIT_SHIM is the shim path, overridable so
# the branch is testable without a /usr/bin write.
if [ "${OS:-}" = "macos" ] &&
{ [ "${MAC_INTEL:-false}" != true ] || [ "${_MAC_ROSETTA:-false}" = true ]; } &&
[ "$(command -v git)" = "${_CLT_GIT_SHIM:-/usr/bin/git}" ] &&
! xcode-select -p >/dev/null 2>&1; then
return 1
fi
git --version >/dev/null 2>&1
}
I mean, that is a seriously longwinded bit of coding, just to avoid triggering an unwanted (and unhelpful) GUI dialog.
Why on Earth did Apple do it that way? Yes, there are Linux distros
that try to be helpful when the user types the name of a command
thatrCOs not installed, to offer them hints on how to install it. But thatrCOs usually done by special setup in the interactive shell, NOT BY FILLING THE FILESYSTEM WITH USELESS EXECUTABLE COMMAND STUBS!
In other words, the Linux folks understand how to be helpful to human
users without sabotaging the behaviour of automated scripts; but it
seems Apple does not.
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL. What "AI pie" would that be? The one where Microsoft spent over $200 billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around $40 billion on?
That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on the phone market. How much longer before they give up AI? Lose another $100 billion?
There is no "AI pie"! It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google. You see, Google is paying Apple $20 billion per year to make Google the default (but very easy to
change) search engine on Apple everything. Apple is paying Google $1 billion per year for Gemini.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing nothing AND free AI from Google. Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
I know which company I'd rather be CEO of.
On 9/3/2026 6:39 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL. What "AI pie" would that be? The one where Microsoft spent over $200 >> billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around $40 billion on?
That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on >> the phone market. How much longer before they give up AI? Lose another $100 >> billion?
There is no "AI pie"! It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google. You see, Google is >> paying Apple $20 billion per year to make Google the default (but very easy to
change) search engine on Apple everything. Apple is paying Google $1 billion
per year for Gemini.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing nothing AND >> free AI from Google. Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
I know which company I'd rather be CEO of.
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does - they
*hoard*. It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line, believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
On Sep 3, 2026 at 6:46:26rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/3/2026 6:39 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >>> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL. What "AI pie" would that be? The one where Microsoft spent over $200 >>> billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around $40 billion on?
That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on >>> the phone market. How much longer before they give up AI? Lose another $100
billion?
There is no "AI pie"! It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google. You see, Google is >>> paying Apple $20 billion per year to make Google the default (but very easy to
change) search engine on Apple everything. Apple is paying Google $1 billion
per year for Gemini.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing nothing AND
free AI from Google. Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
I know which company I'd rather be CEO of.
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does - they
*hoard*. It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line,
believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
Huh?
That makes no sense at all. No company WANTS to "waste profit". Companies do not exist to "waste profit". You are utterly lost here. Microsoft is floundering, pure and simple.
Maybe you should back off the drugs for today.
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL. What "AI pie" would that be? The one where Microsoft spent over
$200 billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around
$40 billion on? That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on the phone market.
There is no "AI pie"! It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing
nothing AND free AI from Google. Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
On Thu, 03 Sep 2026 22:39:09 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on >> the phone market.
Remember who wiped them out: it was Android. They were so fixated on
copying Apple, they were completely blindsided by the popularity of a
much more open, versatile, nimble, Linux-based platform.
On 9/3/2026 6:39 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL.-a What "AI pie" would that be?-a The one where Microsoft spent over
$200
billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around $40
billion on?
-a That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave
up on
the phone market. How much longer before they give up AI?-a Lose
another $100
billion?
There is no "AI pie"!-a-a It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google.-a-a You see,
Google is
paying Apple $20 billion per year to make Google the default (but very
easy to
change) search engine on Apple everything.-a Apple is paying Google $1
billion
per year for Gemini.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing
nothing AND
free AI from Google.-a Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
I know which company I'd rather be CEO of.
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does
*hoard*.
It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line, believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
On Sep 3, 2026 at 6:46:26rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/3/2026 6:39 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 2, 2026 at 9:40:43rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >>> wrote:
You begin to see, donrCOt you, why Apple is having trouble grabbing
itself a slice of the AI pie ...
LOL. What "AI pie" would that be? The one where Microsoft spent over $200 >>> billion over the last 3 years and has to date only made around $40 billion on?
That's a GREAT investment, right?
MS lost "only" around $100 billion on Windows phones before they gave up on >>> the phone market. How much longer before they give up AI? Lose another $100
billion?
There is no "AI pie"! It is pie-in-the-sky BS.
Plus, Apple is getting their AI for free, from Google. You see, Google is >>> paying Apple $20 billion per year to make Google the default (but very easy to
change) search engine on Apple everything. Apple is paying Google $1 billion
per year for Gemini.
IOW, Apple is getting $19 billion per year from Google for doing nothing AND
free AI from Google. Now THAT is a GREAT "investment".
I know which company I'd rather be CEO of.
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does - they
*hoard*. It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line,
believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
Huh?
That makes no sense at all. No company WANTS to "waste profit". Companies do not exist to "waste profit". You are utterly lost here. Microsoft is floundering, pure and simple.
Maybe you should back off the drugs for today.
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does
You just pointed out why Apple doesn't do it: _waste_.
- they
*hoard*.
Which is the smart thing to do if you are a regular civilian, a country
or a company. You want to have the capital to spend if an expensive
problem arises. You don't want to be forced to borrow.
It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their product,
get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung commercial
about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line,
believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
As long as it works, Apple has no reason to change. When the market
speaks and lets them know that their strategy is failing by no longer
buying their hardware, Apple will and will be able to afford to change.
On 2026-09-03 7:13 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 3, 2026 at 6:46:26rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> >> wrote:
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does - they
*hoard*.-a It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in line, >>> believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
Huh?
That makes no sense at all. No company WANTS to "waste profit".
Companies do
not exist to "waste profit".-a You are utterly lost here.-a Microsoft is
floundering, pure and simple.
Absolutely everything Microsoft wasted their money on has failed. The Windows Phone, the Zune, Xbox One (in last place that generation),
Windows Media Audio, etc.. They can't get anything right. I've been
around to see it all, and it has admittedly taken me a while to finally abandon them, but at some point you have to accept that they just suck
at this.
On 9/9/2026 12:08 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-03 7:13 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 3, 2026 at 6:46:26rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
You might think Apple is a smarter company, but if that were really
true, they'd have the ability to waste profit like MS does - they
*hoard*.-a It's a scheme, get the oddball computer users to buy their
product, get their money, and you just line up like the Samsung
commercial about the older folks wanting a new iPhone, standing in
line,
believing the lies, bowing down to the corp, you got a bullet in the
head [to paraphrase RATM ("Bullet In The Head")].
Huh?
That makes no sense at all. No company WANTS to "waste profit".
Companies do
not exist to "waste profit".-a You are utterly lost here.-a Microsoft is >>> floundering, pure and simple.
Absolutely everything Microsoft wasted their money on has failed. The
Windows Phone, the Zune, Xbox One (in last place that generation),
Windows Media Audio, etc.. They can't get anything right. I've been
around to see it all, and it has admittedly taken me a while to
finally abandon them, but at some point you have to accept that they
just suck at this.
You say that, but what would Apple's OS be without M$ Office,
surprisingly usable, for it?
what would Apple's OS be without M$ Office,
surprisingly usable, for it?
You don't need Microsoft Office. For many people, the applications
within iWork are more than enough. Others opt for LibreOffice and still others content themselves with WPS Office for a Microsoft-like
experience or Google Docs. Microsoft's monopoly on office suites is waning.
On 9/9/2026 1:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
what would Apple's OS be without M$ Office, surprisingly usable, for it?
You don't need Microsoft Office. For many people, the applications
within iWork are more than enough. Others opt for LibreOffice and
still others content themselves with WPS Office for a Microsoft-like
experience or Google Docs. Microsoft's monopoly on office suites is
waning.
I beg to differ.-a If I had a Mac, Microsoft Office would be essential,
the only good software other than Usenapp or whatever.
what would Apple's OS be without M$ Office, surprisingly usable, for
it?
You don't need Microsoft Office. For many people, the applications
within iWork are more than enough. Others opt for LibreOffice and
still others content themselves with WPS Office for a Microsoft-like
experience or Google Docs. Microsoft's monopoly on office suites is
waning.
I beg to differ.-a If I had a Mac, Microsoft Office would be essential,
the only good software other than Usenapp or whatever.
Pray tell, what important work do you accomplish which necessitates Microsoft Office?
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 74 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 03:35:53 |
| Calls: | 1,194 |
| Files: | 1,353 |
| D/L today: |
2 files (1,590K bytes) |
| Messages: | 291,364 |