If you have followed CMSA for years you know that Alan Baker at one time
was a owner/driver at a local track. He actively raced in Formula F with
a Honda-powered car.
However, for reasons unknown, he has not been very active as a driver
for years. Many of the pre-COVID drivers have also dropped out and a new
set has come onboard.
The 2026 season is 1/3 over. A clear leader has emerged. Brett Payne has
won 5 of the 6 Formula F races to date. His best lap race lap times are
very close to the Formula F record set in 2018 by Doug Floer.
Will Brett set a new track record this year? Robert Fraser is a close
second and also a contender for a new track record. Stay tuned! I'll be updating as the season progresses.
On 2026-05-12 01:57, Tom Elam wrote:
If you have followed CMSA for years you know that Alan Baker at one
time was a owner/driver at a local track. He actively raced in Formula
F with a Honda-powered car.
However, for reasons unknown, he has not been very active as a driver
for years. Many of the pre-COVID drivers have also dropped out and a
new set has come onboard.
The 2026 season is 1/3 over. A clear leader has emerged. Brett Payne
has won 5 of the 6 Formula F races to date. His best lap race lap
times are very close to the Formula F record set in 2018 by Doug Floer.
Will Brett set a new track record this year? Robert Fraser is a close
second and also a contender for a new track record. Stay tuned! I'll
be updating as the season progresses.
And what you DON'T know is that since the lap record was set, a major portion of the track (from the middle of turn 1 to the middle of turn 3
was re-contoured and repaved...
...so current lap times cannot be compared to lap times set prior to
that work.
But what do details matter when you've got to try to slam someone, huh?
On 5/12/26 6:29 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-12 01:57, Tom Elam wrote:
If you have followed CMSA for years you know that Alan Baker at one
time was a owner/driver at a local track. He actively raced in
Formula F with a Honda-powered car.
However, for reasons unknown, he has not been very active as a driver
for years. Many of the pre-COVID drivers have also dropped out and a
new set has come onboard.
The 2026 season is 1/3 over. A clear leader has emerged. Brett Payne
has won 5 of the 6 Formula F races to date. His best lap race lap
times are very close to the Formula F record set in 2018 by Doug Floer.
Will Brett set a new track record this year? Robert Fraser is a close
second and also a contender for a new track record. Stay tuned! I'll
be updating as the season progresses.
And what you DON'T know is that since the lap record was set, a major
portion of the track (from the middle of turn 1 to the middle of turn
3 was re-contoured and repaved...
...so current lap times cannot be compared to lap times set prior to
that work.
But what do details matter when you've got to try to slam someone, huh?
You already mentioned that. Yet nobody, including you, has set a new
record.
On 2026-05-12 13:37, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/12/26 6:29 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-12 01:57, Tom Elam wrote:
If you have followed CMSA for years you know that Alan Baker at one
time was a owner/driver at a local track. He actively raced in
Formula F with a Honda-powered car.
However, for reasons unknown, he has not been very active as a
driver for years. Many of the pre-COVID drivers have also dropped
out and a new set has come onboard.
The 2026 season is 1/3 over. A clear leader has emerged. Brett Payne
has won 5 of the 6 Formula F races to date. His best lap race lap
times are very close to the Formula F record set in 2018 by Doug Floer. >>>>
Will Brett set a new track record this year? Robert Fraser is a
close second and also a contender for a new track record. Stay
tuned! I'll be updating as the season progresses.
And what you DON'T know is that since the lap record was set, a major
portion of the track (from the middle of turn 1 to the middle of turn
3 was re-contoured and repaved...
...so current lap times cannot be compared to lap times set prior to
that work.
But what do details matter when you've got to try to slam someone, huh?
You already mentioned that. Yet nobody, including you, has set a new
record.
And?
The point is that someone already HAS set a new track record for FF, Liarboy. This is yet another example of you pontificating about
something you don't understand.
The track is no longer the same layout, so EVERY class that has run at
the track so far will have set a new record.
Now, those new records might not be posted anywhere yet...
...but that doesn't change the fact that the fastest lap turned in every class that has run to date on the new layout IS the current lap record
for that class.
The fact that those records might not be lower than the previous lap
records for a class is IRRELEVANT.
But for the record...
And IMAGINE my shock!
...you got it wrong; even by your complete misunderstanding of the situation.
The FF record for the previous layout was set by Doug Floer in 2018 at 1:10.583 seconds...
...and the fastest FF lap from the two race weekends of 2026 was 1:10.130.
So your statement:
"Yet nobody, including you, has set a new record."
...was bullshit, right?
On 5/12/26 10:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-12 13:37, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/12/26 6:29 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-12 01:57, Tom Elam wrote:You already mentioned that. Yet nobody, including you, has set a new
If you have followed CMSA for years you know that Alan Baker at one >>>>> time was a owner/driver at a local track. He actively raced in
Formula F with a Honda-powered car.
However, for reasons unknown, he has not been very active as a
driver for years. Many of the pre-COVID drivers have also dropped
out and a new set has come onboard.
The 2026 season is 1/3 over. A clear leader has emerged. Brett
Payne has won 5 of the 6 Formula F races to date. His best lap race >>>>> lap times are very close to the Formula F record set in 2018 by
Doug Floer.
Will Brett set a new track record this year? Robert Fraser is a
close second and also a contender for a new track record. Stay
tuned! I'll be updating as the season progresses.
And what you DON'T know is that since the lap record was set, a
major portion of the track (from the middle of turn 1 to the middle
of turn 3 was re-contoured and repaved...
...so current lap times cannot be compared to lap times set prior to
that work.
But what do details matter when you've got to try to slam someone, huh? >>>
record.
And?
The point is that someone already HAS set a new track record for FF,
Liarboy. This is yet another example of you pontificating about
something you don't understand.
The track is no longer the same layout, so EVERY class that has run at
the track so far will have set a new record.
Now, those new records might not be posted anywhere yet...
...but that doesn't change the fact that the fastest lap turned in
every class that has run to date on the new layout IS the current lap
record for that class.
The fact that those records might not be lower than the previous lap
records for a class is IRRELEVANT.
But for the record...
And IMAGINE my shock!
...you got it wrong; even by your complete misunderstanding of the
situation.
The FF record for the previous layout was set by Doug Floer in 2018 at
1:10.583 seconds...
...and the fastest FF lap from the two race weekends of 2026 was
1:10.130.
Set by Brett Payne in Race 2.
So your statement:
"Yet nobody, including you, has set a new record."
...was bullshit, right?
Your explanation is wrong. The latest track records posted on the SCCBC
site as of today are 2024 and say "New Track Config" as copied below.
C.A.C.C. MISSION RACE LAP RECORDS - 2024/10/12
New Track Config
RACE CLASS NAME CAR DATE LAP TIME
the FF record is still shown as:
FF Douglas Floer Van Diemen RF94 May 6, 2018 1:10.583
Reference:
https://www.sccbc.net/data/2024/2024_CACC_Lap_Records.pdf
Why are the 2024 best laps not all shown as record times? The 2023
records for best times do not mention a new track layout. Does a new
track layout not cancel all prior records? Or is the club keeping sloppy records on its public facing site?
So the SCCBC fastest lap site records are not updated. 1:10:.130 is the
new record OK. But the new track record was not set by you, was it? Nor
will it be bested by you this year, will it? Nor was it set in 2025.
This just happened last month.
No, it is not total bullshit. The club should keep its site updated.
My statement about Brett Payne is answered. He did set a new trackAbsolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
record. Good for him.
Absolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
BTW, in addition to running on a new (and SLIGHTLY shorter)
configuration, the rules for tires have changed since 2018 as well.
Brett (and everyone) are now running on Hoosier "Club Ford" bias-ply
tires, which have more grip than the American Racer tires we all ran in 2018.
P.S. You're obviously really enjoying your vacation!
On 5/13/26 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
Absolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
BTW, in addition to running on a new (and SLIGHTLY shorter)
configuration, the rules for tires have changed since 2018 as well.
Brett (and everyone) are now running on Hoosier "Club Ford" bias-ply
tires, which have more grip than the American Racer tires we all ran
in 2018.
P.S. You're obviously really enjoying your vacation!
All of which, including snipped, mine and yours, casts doubt on your
claim to have almost beaten Doug's 2018 record. All those rules and
track changes imply that none of the posted times are comparable across time. Especially from 2018.
On 2026-05-16 08:59, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/13/26 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
Absolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
BTW, in addition to running on a new (and SLIGHTLY shorter)
configuration, the rules for tires have changed since 2018 as well.
Brett (and everyone) are now running on Hoosier "Club Ford" bias-ply
tires, which have more grip than the American Racer tires we all ran
in 2018.
P.S. You're obviously really enjoying your vacation!
All of which, including snipped, mine and yours, casts doubt on your
claim to have almost beaten Doug's 2018 record. All those rules and
track changes imply that none of the posted times are comparable
across time. Especially from 2018.
Except we set the times in the same year, Liarboy. Doug in May and me in July of 2018; 1:10.833 to his 1:10.583.
How is that not comparable?
Arguably, given that both weekends were perfectly dry, it was harder to
run that fast in July because the higher air temperature hurt engine power.
Don't mistake your lack of understanding and assumptions for any insight into how motorsports actually works.
On 5/16/26 9:08 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-16 08:59, Tom Elam wrote:If on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things can
On 5/13/26 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
Absolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
BTW, in addition to running on a new (and SLIGHTLY shorter)
configuration, the rules for tires have changed since 2018 as well.
Brett (and everyone) are now running on Hoosier "Club Ford" bias-ply
tires, which have more grip than the American Racer tires we all ran
in 2018.
P.S. You're obviously really enjoying your vacation!
All of which, including snipped, mine and yours, casts doubt on your
claim to have almost beaten Doug's 2018 record. All those rules and
track changes imply that none of the posted times are comparable
across time. Especially from 2018.
Except we set the times in the same year, Liarboy. Doug in May and me
in July of 2018; 1:10.833 to his 1:10.583.
How is that not comparable?
Arguably, given that both weekends were perfectly dry, it was harder
to run that fast in July because the higher air temperature hurt
engine power.
Don't mistake your lack of understanding and assumptions for any
insight into how motorsports actually works.
change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to believe that it was
only you, the driver, that made that low time possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires, car setup, winds etc. And too,
your one time low time was never backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug. Which shows that it was a fluke.
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
On 5/16/26 9:08 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-16 08:59, Tom Elam wrote:If on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things can
On 5/13/26 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
Absolutely. Brett's a terrific addition to our group.
BTW, in addition to running on a new (and SLIGHTLY shorter)
configuration, the rules for tires have changed since 2018 as well.
Brett (and everyone) are now running on Hoosier "Club Ford" bias-ply
tires, which have more grip than the American Racer tires we all ran
in 2018.
P.S. You're obviously really enjoying your vacation!
All of which, including snipped, mine and yours, casts doubt on your
claim to have almost beaten Doug's 2018 record. All those rules and
track changes imply that none of the posted times are comparable
across time. Especially from 2018.
Except we set the times in the same year, Liarboy. Doug in May and me
in July of 2018; 1:10.833 to his 1:10.583.
How is that not comparable?
Arguably, given that both weekends were perfectly dry, it was harder
to run that fast in July because the higher air temperature hurt
engine power.
Don't mistake your lack of understanding and assumptions for any
insight into how motorsports actually works.
change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to believe that it was
only you, the driver, that made that low time possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires, car setup, winds etc. And too,
your one time low time was never backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug. Which shows that it was a fluke.
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?More deflection...
If on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You just
carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things can
change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the driver
that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to believe that
it was only you, the driver, that made that low time possible. Maybe
there were subtle differences in the track, tires, car setup, winds
etc. And too, your one time low time was never backed up by race day
performance with frequent wins over Doug. Which shows that it was a
fluke.
No, that merely shows that having other drivers competing on track for
the optimal line invariably results in measurable differences versus
solo 'poll position' laps.
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
Ever *teach* that subject, hmmm?
Because there's always uncontrollable variables, and its important to understand what are the primary factors, versus the secondary &
tertiary, and which can be controlled to what degree and which may be addressed by other means such as through sample size and averaging.
Are you on the spectrum; mildly autistic?
Because you seem utterly incapable of dealing with nuance.
I just carefully stated that things change over time, yes.
But those things are of different SCALES.
Car setup isn't relevant to track records, because it is under the
control of the driver, and the tires that Doug and I were using were the same.
And a race win doesn't "back up" a track record. That's just the Liarboy
in you trying to deflect.
On 5/17/26 3:19 PM, -hh wrote:
VERY true. Alan's best time ever was set in qualifying. Doug Floer's wasIf on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You
just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things
can change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the
driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to
believe that it was only you, the driver, that made that low time
possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires,
car setup, winds etc. And too, your one time low time was never
backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug. Which
shows that it was a fluke.
No, that merely shows that having other drivers competing on track for
the optimal line invariably results in measurable differences versus
solo 'poll position' laps.
set in a race. That taints Alan's claim.
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
Ever *teach* that subject, hmmm?
No, just 300 level statistics...
On 5/17/26 5:11 PM, Alan wrote:
Are you on the spectrum; mildly autistic?
Because you seem utterly incapable of dealing with nuance.
I just carefully stated that things change over time, yes.
But those things are of different SCALES.
Car setup isn't relevant to track records, because it is under the
control of the driver, and the tires that Doug and I were using were
the same.
And a race win doesn't "back up" a track record. That's just the
Liarboy in you trying to deflect.
It's a rainy day here in Paris. We spent most of the day around Notre
Dame and enjoying a leisurely lunch. The cleaned up interior is
incredible. Beyond words.
No, that is you deflecting from an ugly truth I will now reveal.
Let's look the time period in question, June and July 2018 had you
racing. You also ran in September but that weekend had very poor
weather, so not comparable.
During this year your best time was 01:10.8 set in qualifying (July),
Doug's 01:10.6 set in a race (May) (rounded) 0.2 seconds difference.
True but a month apart.
Now, let's look at July races, your claimed best month ever for lowest
lap time.
Lowest lap times:
Race-a-a-a-a-a Floer-a-a-a Baker-a-a-a Diff.-a-a-a Baker Finish
OW1 Race. 01:11.1-a 01:11.3-a 00:00.3.-a-a-a-a-a 2
OW2 Race-a 01:11.1. 01:12.6-a 00:01.5.-a-a-a-a-a 2
OW3 Race-a 01:11.5-a 01:13.1-a 00:01.6.-a-a-a-a-a 3
Your race 1 best was very near Doug's, but higher than your qualifying
time. Your races 2 and 3 were well above both Doug and your best
qualifying time. Doug on the other hand set very consistent best times.
You claim your were on the same tires. Why did your time get worse in
races 2 and 3?
On 5/17/26 13:34, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/17/26 3:19 PM, -hh wrote:
VERY true. Alan's best time ever was set in qualifying. Doug Floer'sIf on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You
just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things
can change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the
driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to
believe that it was only you, the driver, that made that low time
possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires,
car setup, winds etc. And too, your one time low time was never
backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug.
Which shows that it was a fluke.
No, that merely shows that having other drivers competing on track
for the optimal line invariably results in measurable differences
versus solo 'poll position' laps.
was set in a race. That taints Alan's claim.
Not really.-a Try watching some professional races and their lap times in qualification vs racing and then plot them:-a you'll reproduce the trend which is supported by first principles, but also that the two
distributions have overlap.
He pontificates so much...Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
Ever *teach* that subject, hmmm?
No, just 300 level statistics...
Then go sit down, because you still have a lot to learn.
On 2026-05-17 12:58, -hh wrote:
On 5/17/26 13:34, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/17/26 3:19 PM, -hh wrote:
VERY true. Alan's best time ever was set in qualifying. Doug Floer'sIf on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You
just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things >>>>> can change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the
driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to
believe that it was only you, the driver, that made that low time
possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires,
car setup, winds etc. And too, your one time low time was never
backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug.
Which shows that it was a fluke.
No, that merely shows that having other drivers competing on track
for the optimal line invariably results in measurable differences
versus solo 'poll position' laps.
was set in a race. That taints Alan's claim.
Not really.-a Try watching some professional races and their lap times in >> qualification vs racing and then plot them:-a you'll reproduce the trend
which is supported by first principles, but also that the two
distributions have overlap.
And the larger and more even the field, the greater the likelihood that
the best qualifying laps will be better than the best racing laps.
In qualifying, no one is trying to hold anyone up.
In racing, when you have a competitor close behind, both you and he (or she--I was doing some private tutoring today for a soon-to-be novice
racer who was of the fairer sex) will go slower because of the battle
that causes the driver ahead to enter corners from a defensive position
that is not as fast as the normal line...
...but which prevents the driver behind from jumping inside and
controlling the corner by positioning.
He pontificates so much...
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
Ever *teach* that subject, hmmm?
No, just 300 level statistics...
Then go sit down, because you still have a lot to learn.
...and knows SO little!
On 2026-05-18, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-05-17 12:58, -hh wrote:
On 5/17/26 13:34, Tom Elam wrote:
On 5/17/26 3:19 PM, -hh wrote:
VERY true. Alan's best time ever was set in qualifying. Doug Floer'sIf on the same day, running the same car even, I might agree. You
just carefully stated that any record time is suspect as many things >>>>>> can change over time. Could be a lot of variables other than the
driver that were different and uncontrolled. Yet you want me to
believe that it was only you, the driver, that made that low time
possible. Maybe there were subtle differences in the track, tires, >>>>>> car setup, winds etc. And too, your one time low time was never
backed up by race day performance with frequent wins over Doug.
Which shows that it was a fluke.
No, that merely shows that having other drivers competing on track
for the optimal line invariably results in measurable differences
versus solo 'poll position' laps.
was set in a race. That taints Alan's claim.
Not really.-a Try watching some professional races and their lap times in >>> qualification vs racing and then plot them:-a you'll reproduce the trend >>> which is supported by first principles, but also that the two
distributions have overlap.
And the larger and more even the field, the greater the likelihood that
the best qualifying laps will be better than the best racing laps.
In qualifying, no one is trying to hold anyone up.
In racing, when you have a competitor close behind, both you and he (or
she--I was doing some private tutoring today for a soon-to-be novice
racer who was of the fairer sex) will go slower because of the battle
that causes the driver ahead to enter corners from a defensive position
that is not as fast as the normal line...
...but which prevents the driver behind from jumping inside and
controlling the corner by positioning.
He pontificates so much...
Ever take a grad school class in experimental design?
Ever *teach* that subject, hmmm?
No, just 300 level statistics...
Then go sit down, because you still have a lot to learn.
...and knows SO little!
I'm with you on this one Alan.
As a car nutess, you have convinced me that you are authentic regarding racing and cars.
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