From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hi there!

Sorry for these stupid questions, but I am totally
new to Apple II. As I said in another post, I just
bought Apple II Europlus. I cannot use before my
VGA card arrives from US.

The deal I got included Dan II Controller version
1.1. I know that this card is a floppy card
emulator, but I am going crazy with chatGPT giving
me conflicting advice. On the one hand, chatGPT claims
that I can have two floppy disk controller cards.

On the other hand, it says that I cannot do that
and I must choose between Apple original floppy
controller and Dan II.

So basically now chatGPT told me to remove the
Apple floppy controller from slot 6 and put
Dan II there instead.

I am wondering whether Apple II could support
more than two floppy drives? Slot 6 would have
the Apple original controller and some other
slot could have Dan II inserted? Is this possible?

Thanks for your help!

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

On 5/17/2025 10:31 AM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hi there!

Sorry for these stupid questions, but I am totally
new to Apple II. As I said in another post, I just
bought Apple II Europlus. I cannot use before my
VGA card arrives from US.

The deal I got included Dan II Controller version
1.1. I know that this card is a floppy card
emulator, but I am going crazy with chatGPT giving
me conflicting advice. On the one hand, chatGPT claims
that I can have two floppy disk controller cards.

I believe that the Apple II Europlus is similar to the Apple ][+ which
means that it has 8 slots on the motherboard numbered 0 to 7. You can
put an original style Disk II controller (one that accepts the ribbon
cables) into any slot except slot 0. It is common to put it into slot 6
as some software assumes that it will be there.
The controller supports two Disk II drives. It should look like the
picture on this site:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii-controller-card/

Be very careful when connecting the the ribbon cables that you don't
offset the cable connector with the pins on the card. This will damage
the drive.

On the other hand, it says that I cannot do that
and I must choose between Apple original floppy
controller and Dan II.

So basically now chatGPT told me to remove the
Apple floppy controller from slot 6 and put
Dan II there instead.

I am wondering whether Apple II could support
more than two floppy drives? Slot 6 would have
the Apple original controller and some other
slot could have Dan II inserted? Is this possible?

The Apple II can theoretically support two Disk II drives in each of
slots 1 to 7 for a total of 14 drives at once.
I am not familiar with the Dan II so I don't know if it has restrictions
that the original Disk IIs do not.

Thanks for your help!

br,
KK

Charlie

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hi Charlie!

Charlie <charlieDOTd@vereyezon.net> wrote:

On 5/17/2025 10:31 AM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hi there!

Sorry for these stupid questions, but I am totally
new to Apple II. As I said in another post, I just
bought Apple II Europlus. I cannot use before my
VGA card arrives from US.

The deal I got included Dan II Controller version
1.1. I know that this card is a floppy card
emulator, but I am going crazy with chatGPT giving
me conflicting advice. On the one hand, chatGPT claims
that I can have two floppy disk controller cards.

I believe that the Apple II Europlus is similar to the Apple ][+ which
means that it has 8 slots on the motherboard numbered 0 to 7.

Yes, it is very much like regular, USA Apple II+.

You can
put an original style Disk II controller (one that accepts the ribbon cables) into any slot except slot 0. It is common to put it into slot 6
as some software assumes that it will be there.

I see.

The controller supports two Disk II drives. It should look like the
picture on this site:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii-controller-card/

Yes, it looks like that.

Be very careful when connecting the the ribbon cables that you don't
offset the cable connector with the pins on the card. This will damage
the drive.

Many thanks for your assistance.

On the other hand, it says that I cannot do that
and I must choose between Apple original floppy
controller and Dan II.

So basically now chatGPT told me to remove the
Apple floppy controller from slot 6 and put
Dan II there instead.

I am wondering whether Apple II could support
more than two floppy drives? Slot 6 would have
the Apple original controller and some other
slot could have Dan II inserted? Is this possible?

The Apple II can theoretically support two Disk II drives in each of
slots 1 to 7 for a total of 14 drives at once.
I am not familiar with the Dan II so I don't know if it has restrictions that the original Disk IIs do not.

I believe my Dan II card contains a disk controller
*and* it also emulates two floppy drives. So it is kind of
a all-in-one disk card. You can insert two SD cards in
Dan II and I suppose during the boot time you can
select which WOZ image to use, and it will show up
like a floppy disk to Apple II.

I did not get a manual for Dan II, but I noticed that
it was still sealed in an anti-static plastic bag. When
I opened the bag, I noticed that one of the SD cards
slot already had an SD card. chatGPT told me that it
probably contains some kind Apple DOS programs to
boot.

chatGPT also told me to install Dan II into slot 6 because
it, according to chatGPT, is the only one that can be
used for booting. Some games supposedly assume slot 6.


I guess my plan is to insert Dan II into slot 6 and
maybe I will put the original Apple floppy disk
controller card into slot 7.

Well, to sum it up, chatGPT claims that Apple II cannot
boot from other slots than 6, but if I have my two
real floppy drives in slot 7, it should be possible
to access them from Apple DOS even though you cannot
boot from them.

Again, chatGPT has told me so many lies recently
that it is hard to believe in what it says. But
I believe what you have told me and that is: I can
use two floppy controller cards and have four
floppy drives connected. In my setup, two of those
will be emulations and two of them will be real
Apple drives.

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:

chatGPT has told me so many lies recently

It doesnrCOt know everything and makes stuff up. DonrCOt rely on it.

The Dan ][ Controller is not a floppy disk emulator. Find out more about it
at www.Applefritter.com forum where Dan himself hangs out. It interfaces
two SD cards as ProDOS block devices. It knows nothing about WOZ NIB Dos or other floppy formats.
You could mount two ProDOS 140k disk images but again, this is not a floppy emulator.

You can use it to mount two ProDOS disk images up to 32MB in size.

Regards
Andrew

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hi Kalevi,

On 5/17/2025 2:47 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hi Charlie!

Charlie <charlieDOTd@vereyezon.net> wrote:

On 5/17/2025 10:31 AM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hi there!

Sorry for these stupid questions, but I am totally
new to Apple II. As I said in another post, I just
bought Apple II Europlus. I cannot use before my
VGA card arrives from US.

The deal I got included Dan II Controller version
1.1. I know that this card is a floppy card
emulator, but I am going crazy with chatGPT giving
me conflicting advice. On the one hand, chatGPT claims
that I can have two floppy disk controller cards.

I believe that the Apple II Europlus is similar to the Apple ][+ which
means that it has 8 slots on the motherboard numbered 0 to 7.

Yes, it is very much like regular, USA Apple II+.

You can
put an original style Disk II controller (one that accepts the ribbon
cables) into any slot except slot 0. It is common to put it into slot 6
as some software assumes that it will be there.

I see.

The controller supports two Disk II drives. It should look like the
picture on this site:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii-controller-card/

Yes, it looks like that.

Be very careful when connecting the the ribbon cables that you don't
offset the cable connector with the pins on the card. This will damage
the drive.

Many thanks for your assistance.

On the other hand, it says that I cannot do that
and I must choose between Apple original floppy
controller and Dan II.

So basically now chatGPT told me to remove the
Apple floppy controller from slot 6 and put
Dan II there instead.

I am wondering whether Apple II could support
more than two floppy drives? Slot 6 would have
the Apple original controller and some other
slot could have Dan II inserted? Is this possible?

The Apple II can theoretically support two Disk II drives in each of
slots 1 to 7 for a total of 14 drives at once.
I am not familiar with the Dan II so I don't know if it has restrictions
that the original Disk IIs do not.

I believe my Dan II card contains a disk controller
*and* it also emulates two floppy drives. So it is kind of
a all-in-one disk card. You can insert two SD cards in
Dan II and I suppose during the boot time you can
select which WOZ image to use, and it will show up
like a floppy disk to Apple II.

Sounds like a nice card.

I did not get a manual for Dan II, but I noticed that
it was still sealed in an anti-static plastic bag. When
I opened the bag, I noticed that one of the SD cards
slot already had an SD card. chatGPT told me that it
probably contains some kind Apple DOS programs to
boot.

chatGPT also told me to install Dan II into slot 6 because
it, according to chatGPT, is the only one that can be
used for booting. Some games supposedly assume slot 6.

I guess my plan is to insert Dan II into slot 6 and
maybe I will put the original Apple floppy disk
controller card into slot 7.

Well, to sum it up, chatGPT claims that Apple II cannot
boot from other slots than 6, but if I have my two
real floppy drives in slot 7, it should be possible
to access them from Apple DOS even though you cannot
boot from them.

The Apple II+ can boot from any of the slots 1 to 7.
When you power on the Apple II it 'looks' for a bootable drive in slot
7. If it finds one it boots it. If it does not find one it tries slot 6.
If it does not find one in slot 6 it tries slot 5 and so on until it
finds a drive to boot. So if you put your Disk II controller in slot 7
that is the one that will boot.

If you want real floppies to boot and the Dan II is in slot 6 put the
Disk II controller in slot 7. If you want the Dan II to boot then put
the Disk II controller in a lower numbered slot like slot 5.

By the way, only drive 1 on a Disk II controller is bootable.

Also, if you are in Applesoft BASIC you can enter PR# followed by a slot number and after pressing 'RETURN' the Apple II will attempt to
'activate' that slot. If the slot has a drive controller it will boot
the drive that is attached.
The Applesoft BASIC prompt is ] so ]PR#6 will boot drive 1 in slot 6 if
a boot disk is in that drive.

For the most part Apple II cards are 'plug-and-play'. You can put them
in whatever slot you want. In general though many people do something
like the following:

Slot 0: Language card (this card contains extra RAM/ROM. There is no
Slot 0 on later Apple IIs).

Slot 1: Printer card (serial or parallel).
Slot 2: Communication card.
Slot 3: 80 column text card.
Slot 4: various cards.
Slot 5: various cards.
Slot 6: Floppy controller.
Slot 7: Hard drive.

Here are links to manuals that I found very handy when I bought my Apple
][+ back in 1980.

http://www.applelogic.org/files/AIIREF.pdf http://www.applelogic.org/files/AIIDOS.pdf http://www.apple-iigs.info/doc/fichiers/basicpr1.pdf

Again, chatGPT has told me so many lies recently
that it is hard to believe in what it says. But
I believe what you have told me and that is: I can
use two floppy controller cards and have four
floppy drives connected. In my setup, two of those
will be emulations and two of them will be real
Apple drives.

br,
KK

I think you will do much better asking questions here than relying on
chatGPT.

Charlie


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

On 5/17/2025 9:27 PM, Andrew Roughan wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:

chatGPT has told me so many lies recently

It doesnrCOt know everything and makes stuff up. DonrCOt rely on it.

The Dan ][ Controller is not a floppy disk emulator. Find out more about it at www.Applefritter.com forum where Dan himself hangs out. It interfaces
two SD cards as ProDOS block devices. It knows nothing about WOZ NIB Dos or other floppy formats.
You could mount two ProDOS 140k disk images but again, this is not a floppy emulator.

You can use it to mount two ProDOS disk images up to 32MB in size.

Regards
Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Kalevi mentioned he has an Apple II Europlus, so as a beginner he would probably have trouble using ProDOS especially since he didn't mention
having anything in slot 0. If he doesn't have 64K of RAM and since the
CPU isn't a 65c02 I think he would be very limited in what he could run.

Charlie

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Charlie <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net> wrote:

Kalevi mentioned he has an Apple II Europlus, so as a beginner he would probably have trouble using ProDOS especially since he didn't mention
having anything in slot 0. If he doesn't have 64K of RAM and since the
CPU isn't a 65c02 I think he would be very limited in what he could run.

Agreed. Must get 64k at a minimum by adding 16k language card in slot 0 -
or potentially more memory for a small number of use cases by using a
Saturn 128k RAM card in slot 0 instead.

With 64k he could run Total Replay and other compendiums that have 64k as minimum spec.

Regards
Andrew


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Agreed. Must get 64k at a minimum by adding 16k language card in slot 0 -
or potentially more memory for a small number of use cases by using a
Saturn 128k RAM card in slot 0 instead.

This deal actually included 16K Language Card so I got 64K!

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

The Dan ][ Controller is not a floppy disk emulator. Find out more about it at www.Applefritter.com forum where Dan himself hangs out. It interfaces
two SD cards as ProDOS block devices. It knows nothing about WOZ NIB Dos or other floppy formats.
You could mount two ProDOS 140k disk images but again, this is not a floppy emulator.

Okay, many thanks for clarification. It turns out I was totally wrong
about Dan II.

Is there a modern floppy emulator card for Apple 2 that could use
WOZ disk images?

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:

Is there a modern floppy emulator card for Apple 2 that could use
WOZ disk images?

I actually found this:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:

Is there a modern floppy emulator card for Apple 2 that could use
WOZ disk images?

I actually found this:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

This product seems exactly like what I need so I ordered
the Deluxe Edition. It is incredible what Apple hackers
have done. The WOZ file format in itself is such a cool
invention!

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

On Sat, 17 May 2025, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

chatGPT also told me to install Dan II into slot 6 because
it, according to chatGPT, is the only one that can be
used for booting. Some games supposedly assume slot 6.

I guess my plan is to insert Dan II into slot 6 and
maybe I will put the original Apple floppy disk
controller card into slot 7.

Well, to sum it up, chatGPT claims that Apple II cannot
boot from other slots than 6, but if I have my two
real floppy drives in slot 7, it should be possible
to access them from Apple DOS even though you cannot
boot from them.

Again, chatGPT has told me so many lies recently
that it is hard to believe in what it says. But
I believe what you have told me and that is: I can
use two floppy controller cards and have four
floppy drives connected. In my setup, two of those
will be emulations and two of them will be real
Apple drives.

What ChatGPT told you is mostly bogus. The BIOS will start with slot 7
and iterate downward looking for a FDC signature in the slot ROM. If you
have drive controllers in 6 and 7, it'll boot from 7. And if it doesn't
find a drive controller, it'll just fall to BASIC.

A lot of software, though, does assume it's being run from slot 6.

-uso.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:

What ChatGPT told you is mostly bogus. The BIOS will start with slot 7
and iterate downward looking for a FDC signature in the slot ROM. If you have drive controllers in 6 and 7, it'll boot from 7. And if it doesn't find a drive controller, it'll just fall to BASIC.

Yes, that's what the other Apple gurus already told me. I cannot
understand why the chatGPT devs cannot simply make this AI say
"I DO NOT KNOW!" when it does not know. Instead, it generates
credible sounding bullshit using its wild imagination.

A lot of software, though, does assume it's being run from slot 6.

Thank you very much.

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

On 5/18/25 15:08, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:

What ChatGPT told you is mostly bogus. The BIOS will start with slot 7
and iterate downward looking for a FDC signature in the slot ROM. If you
have drive controllers in 6 and 7, it'll boot from 7. And if it doesn't
find a drive controller, it'll just fall to BASIC.

Yes, that's what the other Apple gurus already told me. I cannot
understand why the chatGPT devs cannot simply make this AI say
"I DO NOT KNOW!" when it does not know. Instead, it generates
credible sounding bullshit using its wild imagination.

Because it doesn't know when it doesn't know something. If you can solve that problem it might lead to world domination!

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:

Because it doesn't know when it doesn't know something. If you can solve that
problem it might lead to world domination!

I actually asked chatGPT why does it never say "I don't know".

The answer was something like this: When I am not 100% sure,
I am programmed to synthesize a likely answer based on large
amounts of data.

But it never cares to say its answer is uncertain and based
on speculation.

br,
KK
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Steven Hirsch wrote:

Because it doesn't know when it doesn't know something.

Which is largely because ChatGPT doesn't *know* anything. It's more or
less just assembling grammatically correct sentences, that may or may
not be true, based upon a database built from a pool of literature.
It's schlocky.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2