In article <598e757e6bNews03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
However, for FTTP the ONT (ie BT box) needs to be connected to the
router by Ethernet cable (which can be long) not telephone cable. The router also needs to be capable of connecting to ethernet WAN (which
many modern ones are). A new suitable router may be provided by your
ISP, but a long connecting cable is up to you.
Anyone have any idea how long the (Say Cat5e) cable from the ONT can be before it needs a booster?
Thanks
Dave
Anyone have any idea how long the (Say Cat5e) cable from the ONT can be before it needs a booster?
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there
so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT
phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there >>> so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from >> your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the
house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
In message <598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT >>> phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there >>> so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from
your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
No the router can be elsewhere within reason, depends on your setup.
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
Openreach will install the Full Fibre within reason (ask nicely) in
another location, but the ONT must be near a power supply.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
The router is linked to the ONT box which brings the full fibre into your property and the ONT is linked to your router by Ethernet cable (Cat 5e cable which can support 1000Mbps can be up to 100 metre long)
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
It matters even less now. "A few feet of copper" could easily be a very big deal to an ADSL signal, whereas it will make minimal difference to the ethernet data.
On 21 Nov, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
<598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network
traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the
house?
No, as I keep writing here: the Optical Network Terminator (ONT) is
what turns the fibre into copper, and /that/ needs to be wherever the Openreach installer will place it.
The router connects to the ONT via a standard ethernet cable with RJ45s
on the ends, and can be wherever you want it to be (within 100m, as
already discussed). It could be right next to the ONT, or it could be
exactly where your ADSL modem/router was, with CAT5 between it and the
ONT.
In article <mpro.r2x1v000s2jbz037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 21 Nov, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
<598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes
network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes
into the house?
No, as I keep writing here: the Optical Network Terminator (ONT)
is what turns the fibre into copper, and /that/ needs to be
wherever the Openreach installer will place it.
The router connects to the ONT via a standard ethernet cable with
RJ45s on the ends, and can be wherever you want it to be (within
100m, as already discussed). It could be right next to the ONT,
or it could be exactly where your ADSL modem/router was, with
CAT5 between it and the ONT.
Conflicting statements here.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT
cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in,
from there it's copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever
you want the router so I can use the existing copper.
Conflicting statements here.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT
cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in,
from there it's copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever
you want the router so I can use the existing copper.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in, from there it's
copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever you want the router so
I can use the existing copper.
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension
for the ADSL in CAT5, then you can, indeed, reuse that
cable to get the network connection from the ONT to your
existing router location. However, if you've used
standard UK phone twisted pair, which is what I suspect
most ADSL extensions will be, then you'll need to replace
that with CAT5 or better.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an
adaptor that plugs into the router (it does not have
its own adaptor built in).
I'd like to read some information about such an adaptor.
I assume Russell is referring to an Analogue Telephone
Adapter (ATA), which is how to convert regular analogue
phones to VOIP.
You plug a phone cable from your router or ATA into the
green socket, and that pipes analogue phone signals to
your extensions.
In article <mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension for the ADSL in
CAT5
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions pre-date ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone extensions are wired with standard UK phone twisted pair.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but no idea how you
would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable and RJ45 sockets when the phone has
a standard BT plug?
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much thicker than BT wire) running all around the house without trunking (which is often ugly) or chasing it into the wall and redecorating (which is a skilled job and potentially very expensive.
In article <aPf*upJzy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
You plug a phone cable from your router or ATA into the green socket,
and that pipes analogue phone signals to your extensions.
So it will not be just a matter of plugging a wire into one of the
ethernet sockets (RJ45) on the router and the other end into the green socket?
Instead I am going to need an ATA to plug into the router and then plug
that back into the existing wiring?
It all looks expensive!
There's been a suggestion here (from Doug?) that the ONTs on offer now by Openreach don't have the phone connection, so it will presumably be in the router instead.
It probably can be, but for the average user, I'd expect that everything would be supplied as part of the package. The discussion that we're having here is definitely not "average".
In message <mpro.r2y5fa08oqavt037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
There's been a suggestion here (from Doug?) that the ONTs on offer now by Openreach don't have the phone connection, so it will presumably be in the router instead.
Don't recall saying that and looking back at the thread I can't see any mention of it by me, but as ever happy to be corrected.
But just to help here are the ones that Openreach use:
https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/whats-an-openreach-modem-ont
The only thing I mentioned was the issues around Full fibre delivery of broadband whilst retaining copper for the phone service that is being withdrawn as well and the issues around that highlighted last year.
It probably can be, but for the average user, I'd expect that everything would be supplied as part of the package. The discussion that we're having here is definitely not "average".
Yep and thats why most companies will go for their packaged solution as it helps the migration and don't mention the lock in benefits :-)
If someone wants to go their own way then there are plenty of Voip
solution providers out there now that can be used.
On 21 Nov, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<598f0a28bcsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>:
In article <mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension for the
ADSL in CAT5
[snip]
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions pre-date
ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone extensions are wired with
standard UK phone twisted pair.
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered side of a
filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL -- that way, all of
the old phone extensions can be filtered at the master socket, and
there's no need for filters on each phone.
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair phone wire,
not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable was to hand. Three-pair
phone wire is surprisingly hard to find in places like Homebase,
and can't be used for much else.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but no idea
how you would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable and RJ45 sockets
when the phone has a standard BT plug?
You wouldn't use RJ45 plugs? I'm fairly sure that you could
terminate solid-core CAT5 into UK phone sockets; the push-down tool
is certainly exchangeable with RJ11 and RJ45 sockets.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a common
thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones), you'd just plug
the phones into spare network drops and patch the end in the comms
room back to the PABX accordingly.
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much thicker than BT
wire) running all around the house without trunking (which is
often ugly) or chasing it into the wall and redecorating (which
is a skilled job and potentially very expensive.
The two reels that I have here, of three-pair phone cable and CAT5,
are similar ODs. We're not talking significantly different sizes.
They've gone through several iterations, including providing a new copper pair for voice only, and running voice through the ONT. Those are all EOL now. New installs are getting the one-port modem without battery backup - the last picture on that page (not necessarily in that hinged outer cover as they depict, instead directly mounted on the wall). There's no phone socket because the new world order is that all voice is run from your ISP through their router. Openreach will no longer handle any voice services, it's all data from their point of view.
On 21 Nov, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<598f0a28bcsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>:
In article
<mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone
extension for the ADSL in CAT5
[snip]
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions
pre-date ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone
extensions are wired with standard UK phone twisted
pair.
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered
side of a filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL
-- that way, all of the old phone extensions can be
filtered at the master socket, and there's no need for
filters on each phone.
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair
phone wire, not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable
was to hand. Three-pair phone wire is surprisingly hard
to find in places like Homebase, and can't be used for
much else.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but
no idea how you would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable
and RJ45 sockets when the phone has a standard BT plug?
You wouldn't use RJ45 plugs? I'm fairly sure that you
could terminate solid-core CAT5 into UK phone sockets;
the push-down tool is certainly exchangeable with RJ11
and RJ45 sockets.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a
common thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones),
you'd just plug the phones into spare network drops and
patch the end in the comms room back to the PABX
accordingly.
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much
thicker than BT wire) running all around the house
without trunking (which is often ugly) or chasing it
into the wall and redecorating (which is a skilled job
and potentially very expensive.
The two reels that I have here, of three-pair phone cable
and CAT5, are similar ODs. We're not talking
significantly different sizes.
In article
<mpro.r2y4ql07izwp4037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered
side of a filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL
-- that way, all of the old phone extensions can be
filtered at the master socket, and there's no need for
filters on each phone.
I have never heard of that one! I thought that you had to
use CAT5 for the ADSL side.
Presumably the phone cable still ends in an RJ11 socket?
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair
phone wire, not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable
was to hand. Three-pair phone wire is surprisingly hard
to find in places like Homebase, and can't be used for
much else.
Never seen three-pair phone wire (blue, orange and green) on
sale anywhere, though the original extensions in this house
are all three-pair. But I had never seen that until I moved
into it.
What was the point of the extra (green) pair? All the phone
instructions, even when there were six terminals, always
only referred to 4 wires.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a
common thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones),
you'd just plug the phones into spare network drops and
patch the end in the comms room back to the PABX
accordingly.
Again, never seen RJ45 to BT adaptors, only RJ11 socket to
BT plug.
What I'm not clear about is whether an existing old style phone -
completely powered off the phone line - will still work and ring.
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most useful.
Dave
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the
links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall
plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
In article <087d899159.ChrisCraig@btinternet.com>,
Chris Craig <chris@chriscraig.co.uk> wrote:
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the
links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall
plugs" like Netgear?
You will have to be more specific.
But I suspect a wired connection would be better and more reliable.
Sime devices are 'wifi extenders' which tend to halve the speed.
Some transmit ethernet over the mains, which may work.
Whatever your internet speed is, and likk needs to be more than that,
and duplex (ie work both ways simultaneously).
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
It is probably a FTTC VDSL connection - possibly a 80mbis/s down and
20MB/s down link, but limited by the quality (length) of the copper
line from the cabinet, and your modem.
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
Chris Craig <chris@chriscraig.co.uk> wrote:
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) - what's that all about.
Possibly 'P' = pulse dialling, 'T' = tone dialling. I'm not sure what 'E' and 'TB' are.
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most
useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
Chris
In article <5991935d44News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use
"wall plugs" like Netgear?
You will have to be more specific. But I suspect a wired
connection would be better and more reliable. Sime devices are
'wifi extenders' which tend to halve the speed. Some transmit
ethernet over the mains, which may work. Whatever your internet
speed is, and likk needs to be more than that, and duplex (ie
work both ways simultaneously).
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say
about my connection
It is probably a FTTC VDSL connection - possibly a 80mbis/s down
and 20MB/s down link, but limited by the quality (length) of the
copper line from the cabinet, and your modem.
I think Tim Hill noted something about this recently...
<Quote> "My internet router ended up in the kitchen where my cable
enters and it's connected to a homeplug; the gigabit switch in my
study is connected to another." </Quote>
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
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