• spn alias

    From Stefan Kania@stefan@kania-online.de to kerberos on Thu Mar 6 17:42:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

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  • From Jeffrey Hutzelman@jhutz@cmu.edu to Stefan Kania on Thu Mar 6 11:57:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    What LDAP server software are you using?
    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 11:44rC>AM Stefan Kania <stefan@kania-online.de> wrote:
    hi to all,
    is it possible to set an alais for the spn? We still having the problem
    doing kerberos authentication through a loadbalancer. We created a
    principal for the loadbalancer and a keytab. We then added the key to
    the ldap-keytab file, so we are having both, the ldap key for the server
    and the ldap key for the loadbalancer in one file. This file we use as
    keytab for the ldap-server. the client connets to the loadbalancer (with ldapsearch) and we are getting "err=49" and the log is showing that the
    spn is wrong. So we think with an alias for the spn for the loadbalancer
    it might work. Or is there any other way to get the
    kerberos-authentication through the loadbalancer?

    Stefan



    ________________________________________________
    Kerberos mailing list Kerberos@mit.edu https://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/kerberos

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  • From Stefan Kania@stefan@kania-online.de to Jeffrey Hutzelman on Thu Mar 6 18:13:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

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  • From Michael B Allen@ioplex@gmail.com to Stefan Kania on Thu Mar 6 17:23:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 11:45rC>AM Stefan Kania <stefan@kania-online.de> wrote:
    hi to all,
    is it possible to set an alais for the spn? We still having the problem
    doing kerberos authentication through a loadbalancer. We created a
    principal for the loadbalancer and a keytab. We then added the key to
    the ldap-keytab file, so we are having both, the ldap key for the server
    and the ldap key for the loadbalancer in one file. This file we use as
    keytab for the ldap-server. the client connets to the loadbalancer (with ldapsearch) and we are getting "err=49" and the log is showing that the
    spn is wrong. So we think with an alias for the spn for the loadbalancer
    it might work. Or is there any other way to get the
    kerberos-authentication through the loadbalancer?

    Hi Stefan,
    How are you load balancing LDAP exactly?
    The most common way to load balance LDAP is to use SRV records.
    Clients pick a server based on SRV record priority and weight.
    An SPN /is/ an alias for an account + secret so, no, I would not say you
    can have an alias for an SPN.
    Each service instance should have a unique DNS hostname with a unique SPN
    that probably refers to different accounts but it is common to have
    multiple SPNs reference the same account (albeit usually for different schemes).
    If your load balancing is more like a reverse proxy arrangement, that would mean clients are all using the same exact SPN which means each endpoint
    must use the same account + secret and thus the same key. This sounds like
    your point-of-failure.
    But I'm no expert on such things. I have never load balanced LDAP in any
    way other than the usual SRV record method.
    If you explain your architecture in a little more depth, you might get a
    better answer.
    Mike
    --
    Michael B Allen
    Java AD DS Integration
    https://www.ioplex.com/ <http://www.ioplex.com/>
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeffrey Hutzelman@jhutz@cmu.edu to Michael B Allen on Thu Mar 6 17:56:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    It sounds like the setup uses a load balancer that accepts TCP connections
    and relays to some available server. Basically a reverse proxy at the TCP layer, and pretty common for this type of service (i.e. not HTTP). Unfortunately, the Cyrus SASL library used by OpenLDAP has a limitation in
    the GSSAPI mechanism, which is that it supports only a single service
    principal name(*). By default, that's ldap/<hostname>, using the machine's configured FQDN. You can configure it to use a different name, such as the
    one belonging to the shared load balancer VIP, but I'm afraid I don't
    recall exactly how offhand (and I'm not in front of a computer). So, you
    can support the server's individual name or the shared name, but not both. Years ago we patched Cyrus SASL to avoid this problem by allowing any
    principal whose keys appear in the keytab, but that unfortunately was never merged. The change is simple enough -- when calling gss_accept_sec_context,
    use GSS_C_NO_CREDENTIAL instead of going out of the way to call gss_acquire_cred to get a specific server credential.
    FWIW, our current solution to this issue at CMU is to use a DNS-based load balancer which returns the address of a different LDAP server on each
    lookup of ldap.cmu.edu. The servers then each only need to accept their own SPN, since the clients reverse resolve the LDAP server address before requesting a service ticket(**).
    * "service principal name" is the name of a principal used as a service. In Windows AD, this is often an alias for an "account", but that's an artifact
    of the design of AD. In other implementations including MITa and Heimdal, service principals are first-class objects just like client principals, and
    the question about aliasing is a reasonable one, though not really the
    cause of the problem here.
    ** RFC 4120 specifically said not to rely on insecure DNS queries for this,
    but that advice is unfortunately frequently ignored, by applications and libraries in ways that are hard to avoid. Fortunately, everyone seems to
    follow the corresponding advice for TLS and X.509 PKI, which essentially
    means that as long as you use ldaps and validate certificates, the reverse
    DNS lookup before calling SASL/GSS/Kerberos doesn't introduce any problem.
    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 17:25 Michael B Allen <ioplex@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 11:45rC>AM Stefan Kania <stefan@kania-online.de> wrote:

    hi to all,
    is it possible to set an alais for the spn? We still having the problem doing kerberos authentication through a loadbalancer. We created a principal for the loadbalancer and a keytab. We then added the key to
    the ldap-keytab file, so we are having both, the ldap key for the server and the ldap key for the loadbalancer in one file. This file we use as keytab for the ldap-server. the client connets to the loadbalancer (with ldapsearch) and we are getting "err=49" and the log is showing that the
    spn is wrong. So we think with an alias for the spn for the loadbalancer
    it might work. Or is there any other way to get the
    kerberos-authentication through the loadbalancer?


    Hi Stefan,

    How are you load balancing LDAP exactly?

    The most common way to load balance LDAP is to use SRV records.
    Clients pick a server based on SRV record priority and weight.

    An SPN /is/ an alias for an account + secret so, no, I would not say you
    can have an alias for an SPN.

    Each service instance should have a unique DNS hostname with a unique SPN that probably refers to different accounts but it is common to have
    multiple SPNs reference the same account (albeit usually for different schemes).

    If your load balancing is more like a reverse proxy arrangement, that would mean clients are all using the same exact SPN which means each endpoint
    must use the same account + secret and thus the same key. This sounds like your point-of-failure.

    But I'm no expert on such things. I have never load balanced LDAP in any
    way other than the usual SRV record method.

    If you explain your architecture in a little more depth, you might get a better answer.

    Mike

    --
    Michael B Allen
    Java AD DS Integration
    https://www.ioplex.com/ <http://www.ioplex.com/> ________________________________________________
    Kerberos mailing list Kerberos@mit.edu https://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/kerberos

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Michael B Allen@ioplex@gmail.com to Jeffrey Hutzelman on Thu Mar 6 19:16:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 5:57rC>PM Jeffrey Hutzelman <jhutz@cmu.edu> wrote:
    Years ago we patched Cyrus SASL to avoid this problem by allowing any principal whose keys appear in the keytab, but that unfortunately was never merged.

    I thought that's how kerberos worked by default - just use the spn in the ap-req to lookup the base key from the keytab or wherever.
    Sounds gssapi got in the way of itself.
    * "service principal name" is the name of a principal used as a service.
    In Windows AD, this is often an alias for an "account", but that's an artifact of the design of AD. In other implementations including MITa and Heimdal, service principals are first-class objects just like client principals, and the question about aliasing is a reasonable one, though not really the cause of the problem here.

    Ah, ok. Clearly I'm exposing myself on the Internets again.
    ** RFC 4120 specifically said not to rely on insecure DNS queries for
    this, but that advice is unfortunately frequently ignored, by applications and libraries in ways that are hard to avoid. Fortunately, everyone seems
    to follow the corresponding advice for TLS and X.509 PKI, which essentially means that as long as you use ldaps and validate certificates, the reverse DNS lookup before calling SASL/GSS/Kerberos doesn't introduce any problem.

    Deploying CA certs is annoying.
    I've been thinking about adding a utility to my toolchain that does an LDAP bind with Kerberos and, if and only if mutual is successful, grab the CA
    cert from the SSL layer and offer to install it (like
    into jre/lib/security/cacerts for java in my case).
    Mike
    --
    Michael B Allen
    Java AD DS Integration
    https://www.ioplex.com/ <http://www.ioplex.com/>
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeffrey Hutzelman@jhutz@cmu.edu to Michael B Allen on Thu Mar 6 19:28:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 19:16 Michael B Allen <ioplex@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 5:57rC>PM Jeffrey Hutzelman <jhutz@cmu.edu> wrote:

    Years ago we patched Cyrus SASL to avoid this problem by allowing any
    principal whose keys appear in the keytab, but that unfortunately was never >> merged.


    I thought that's how kerberos worked by default - just use the spn in the ap-req to lookup the base key from the keytab or wherever.

    Sounds gssapi got in the way of itself.

    GSSAPI makes it easy to do this right, and that's the advice we've been
    giving for at least 20 years. Unfortunately, or also makes it easy to get
    the idea that servers have to acquire a credential to accept connections.
    ** RFC 4120 specifically said not to rely on insecure DNS queries for this,
    but that advice is unfortunately frequently ignored, by applications and
    libraries in ways that are hard to avoid. Fortunately, everyone seems to
    follow the corresponding advice for TLS and X.509 PKI, which essentially
    means that as long as you use ldaps and validate certificates, the reverse >> DNS lookup before calling SASL/GSS/Kerberos doesn't introduce any problem. >>

    Deploying CA certs is annoying.

    I've been thinking about adding a utility to my toolchain that does an
    LDAP bind with Kerberos and, if and only if mutual is successful, grab the
    CA cert from the SSL layer and offer to install it (like
    into jre/lib/security/cacerts for java in my case).

    That seems reasonable, if you trust the server to send the right CA cert.
    It would also work to use a Kerberos authenticated ssh connection, or set
    up something behind https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/remctl/ to
    provide a CA cert. I agree, deploying CA certs or anything you can trust is annoying. Once you've done that once, better to make use of it for others.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Stefan Kania@stefan@kania-online.de to kerberos on Sat Mar 8 17:22:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.protocols.kerberos

    This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

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    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2