Is it that difficult for some of you to grasp the concept that both the
Hamas and the current leadership of the IDF and of Israel may be equally fanatics in that regard?
On 12/09/2026 04:31, c186282 wrote:
On 9/11/26 05:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Two wrongs don't make a right...
On 11/09/2026 08:09, c186282 wrote:
However note the USA, unlike so many others, was not
-a-a much interested in armed take-over/colonization of
-a-a other countries.
No. Just a quick unrecorded genocide of the Indians and THEIR countries
-a-a Ummmm ... "thinking of the times". Note the 'natives'
-a-a tended to think and act the same way - including to
-a-a their neighbors - for 20,000+ years. What, we "stole"
-a-a land from the Apache ? Who'd THEY steal the land
-a-a from, and who did THOSE steal the land from and
-a-a so on and so on ?
-a-a So quit with the high-moral bullshit.
-a-a Oh, and who did the worst to 'the natives' - itI agree the spanish were even worse: compare - say - canada - largely colonised by British and French - with, say Argentina, which is spanish,
-a-a was the SPANISH, not England-derived. All the
-a-a big Euro countries had RUTHLESS conquests around
-a-a the world too. Of course the Islamists tried the
-a-a same for a long time, Romans, Huns, Mongols, Chinese ...
-a-a this is just how humans seem to DO things. "Defeat
-a-a your enemies, see them driven before you and hear
-a-a the lamentations of the women ..."
in terms of political stability, living standards and general brutality.
On 9/11/26 06:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 10:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 01:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I dint know you were based in Gaza?
On 10/09/2026 19:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:I have eyes. There is no doubt about it.
The point is, that Jews by and large have learned NOT to do those >>>>>>> things.
WHAT? No, they did not.
They are committing genocide, thanks to the USA and European
permission.
So Hamas, and the anti-Semitic Left,-a would have you believe...
There is TV. Total destruction of all the buildings is not contested
and is enough proof.
-a ... That HAMAS are total FANATICS and will
-a fight to the last baby-sandbag .....
On 12/09/2026 07:09, c186282 wrote:
On 9/11/26 06:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:...and only photograph the wrecks of the places where they did...
On 2026-09-11 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 10:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 01:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I dint know you were based in Gaza?
On 10/09/2026 19:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:I have eyes. There is no doubt about it.
The point is, that Jews by and large have learned NOT to do
those things.
WHAT? No, they did not.
They are committing genocide, thanks to the USA and European
permission.
So Hamas, and the anti-Semitic Left,-a would have you believe...
There is TV. Total destruction of all the buildings is not contested
and is enough proof.
-a-a ... That HAMAS are total FANATICS and will
-a-a fight to the last baby-sandbag .....
Nothing coming out of that part of the world is unbiased and broad
coverage.
Its all narrow selective propaganda.
And the readiness of people to disbelieve the Israeli narrative seems to
be a resurgence of a deep anti-Semitism we hoped had gone forever.
People can now relax as hating Jews becomes fashionable. And the Nazis
are now the poster boys of the Left
On 2026-09-12 11:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/2026 04:31, c186282 wrote:
On 9/11/26 05:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Two wrongs don't make a right...
On 11/09/2026 08:09, c186282 wrote:-a-a Ummmm ... "thinking of the times". Note the 'natives'
However note the USA, unlike so many others, was not
-a-a much interested in armed take-over/colonization of
-a-a other countries.
No. Just a quick unrecorded genocide of the Indians and THEIR countries >>>
-a-a tended to think and act the same way - including to
-a-a their neighbors - for 20,000+ years. What, we "stole"
-a-a land from the Apache ? Who'd THEY steal the land
-a-a from, and who did THOSE steal the land from and
-a-a so on and so on ?
-a-a So quit with the high-moral bullshit.
-a-a Oh, and who did the worst to 'the natives' - itI agree the spanish were even worse: compare - say - canada - largely
-a-a was the SPANISH, not England-derived. All the
-a-a big Euro countries had RUTHLESS conquests around
-a-a the world too. Of course the Islamists tried the
-a-a same for a long time, Romans, Huns, Mongols, Chinese ...
-a-a this is just how humans seem to DO things. "Defeat
-a-a your enemies, see them driven before you and hear
-a-a the lamentations of the women ..."
colonised by British and French - with, say Argentina, which is
spanish, in terms of political stability, living standards and general
brutality.
In most of the Spanish America the natives survived to this day. Many
died, mostly to infections, but many more survived, compared to the
British lands.
-aThere were plenty of interracial marriages, for instance.
On 2026-09-12 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/2026 07:09, c186282 wrote:
On 9/11/26 06:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:...and only photograph the wrecks of the places where they did...
On 2026-09-11 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 10:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 01:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I dint know you were based in Gaza?
On 10/09/2026 19:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:I have eyes. There is no doubt about it.
The point is, that Jews by and large have learned NOT to do >>>>>>>>> those things.
WHAT? No, they did not.
They are committing genocide, thanks to the USA and European
permission.
So Hamas, and the anti-Semitic Left,-a would have you believe... >>>>>>>
There is TV. Total destruction of all the buildings is not contested
and is enough proof.
-a-a ... That HAMAS are total FANATICS and will
-a-a fight to the last baby-sandbag .....
Nothing coming out of that part of the world is unbiased and broad
coverage.
Its all narrow selective propaganda.
And the readiness of people to disbelieve the Israeli narrative seems
to be a resurgence of a deep anti-Semitism we hoped had gone forever.
People can now relax as hating Jews becomes fashionable. And the Nazis
are now the poster boys of the Left
It is not antisemitism. I hate what they actually do.
On 2026-09-12 08:09, c186282 wrote:
On 9/11/26 06:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 10:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-11 01:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I dint know you were based in Gaza?
On 10/09/2026 19:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:I have eyes. There is no doubt about it.
The point is, that Jews by and large have learned NOT to do
those things.
WHAT? No, they did not.
They are committing genocide, thanks to the USA and European
permission.
So Hamas, and the anti-Semitic Left,-a would have you believe...
There is TV. Total destruction of all the buildings is not contested
and is enough proof.
-a-a ... That HAMAS are total FANATICS and will
-a-a fight to the last baby-sandbag .....
They have to.
As I said, no Jewish terrorist group has blown up raped or murdered
anyone in England.
TBH the nations that used to be British seem to have the most
sophisticated populations ..many Nigerian, S African, Zimbabwean and
Kenyan people over here with qualifications doing good things...
I agree the spanish were even worse: compare - say - canada - largely colonised by British and French - with, say Argentina, which is spanish,
in terms of political stability, living standards and general brutality.
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic community
(NORAID) that was spent on more bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few bucks
in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening
accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a
sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
On 12/09/2026 07:36, c186282 wrote:
The Brits were hard-ass in India and beyond too.British Empire was always primarily mercantile. Once the cost of
-a-a They didn't have the money to keep that up - but
-a-a that MAY be the ONLY reason they shrank their
-a-a empire - nothing "moral/ethical" .......
maintaining it exceeded the trade balance obtained from it, there was no reason to stay. We helped nations set up what we hoped would be stable democracies, invited them to join the Commonwealth, and left...
-a-a Grab. Conqueror. CRUSH the 'niggers' ... nothing
-a-a new, OR too old, about THAT. This is how humans
-a-a Do Business, at least documented since somebody
-a-a invented clay tablets.
No that is very much the American and Spanish way, not the British.
On 11/09/2026 20:25, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:20:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 08:09, c186282 wrote:
However note the USA, unlike so many others, was notNo. Just a quick unrecorded genocide of the Indians and THEIR countries
-a -a much interested in armed take-over/colonization of other countries. >>>
There is Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and a swath of what was northern
Mexico. The US did cut the Philippines loose eventually.
You have missed out all the rest of the United states. Where did you
think Indiana got its name? Or the Mississippi?
America was colonised by the losers of Europe who murdered its
inhabitants and took their land.
On 12/09/2026 04:07, c186282 wrote:
Anyway, the whole 'middle east', this kind of shit has
-a-a been going on for thousands of years.
Actually it has not. In the 1960s Lebanon and Beirut were go-to places
for a holiday with all religions living peacefully. Many people at my university took the hippy trail all the way through Afghanistan to Nepal
and Thibet.
Then the region got stirred up by people pouring billions into radical conservative Islam.
And the killing started
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic community >>>> (NORAID) that was spent on more bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few bucks
in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening
accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a
sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic community >>>>> (NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few bucks
in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening
accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a
sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
-a Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new
-a about that, "The Oppressor" must die ... age-
-a old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if Ireland
is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern Ireland
protestants,
in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm not sure South
Ireland wants them either.
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community
(NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few bucks >>>>> in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening
accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a >>>>> sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
-a-a Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new
-a-a about that, "The Oppressor" must die ... age-
-a-a old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if Ireland
is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern Ireland protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm not
sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general foreigners
do like to stir up trouble.
The land those 'inhabitants' invaded and murdered all the inhabitants
... who invaded and murdered ...
on and on it went for 25,000+ years.
On 9/13/26 02:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community
(NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few bucks >>>>>> in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening >>>>>> accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a >>>>>> sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
-a-a Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new
-a-a about that, "The Oppressor" must die ... age-
-a-a old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if
Ireland is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern
Ireland protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the
UK. I'm not sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general
foreigners do like to stir up trouble.
-a The 'overlords' ALWAYS do the Stupid Thing.
-a Their own power/glory/wealth is the PRIME
-a equation.
-a NOTHING new there.
-a But as for NI ... is some forcible, nasty,
-a expulsion of the Brits the BEST way to go ?
-a I think you will create a Ghetto State
-a run by maniacs.
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 23:05:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The land those 'inhabitants' invaded and murdered all the inhabitants
... who invaded and murdered ...
on and on it went for 25,000+ years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Hell_Gate,_Montana#Native_American_and_western_settlement
The canyon was carved by the Clark Fork and is the easy way to travel
east. I-90 follows it closely. Even today there is no real alternate
route.
It's telling that in all of Lewis and Clark's wandering through the lands
of many tribes the only fatal contact was when they killed 3 Blackfeet who were trying to steal their horses and guns.
On 9/13/26 08:02, c186282 wrote:
On 9/13/26 02:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community
(NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few >>>>>>> bucks
in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that time in the evening >>>>>>> accordions, whistles, and the like would appear and there would be a >>>>>>> sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
-a-a Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new
-a-a about that, "The Oppressor" must die ... age-
-a-a old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or
some other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if
Ireland is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern
Ireland protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the
UK. I'm not sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general
foreigners do like to stir up trouble.
-a-a The 'overlords' ALWAYS do the Stupid Thing.
-a-a Their own power/glory/wealth is the PRIME
-a-a equation.
-a-a NOTHING new there.
-a-a But as for NI ... is some forcible, nasty,
-a-a expulsion of the Brits the BEST way to go ?
-a-a I think you will create a Ghetto State
-a-a run by maniacs.
Brits? That is some silly label. I'm English, Sean Connery, Andy Murray
are Scottish, Catherine Zeta Jones is Welsh. Liam Nesson is Irish, I had
to look it up to know that he was from the North. We are all European.
I don't think anyone serious wants to expel them, Ireland isn't Israel.
Slaughter Brits until they flee NI ? THEN what ?
-a Probably NO MONEY and equal/worse oppression by
-a their OWN for a long time. The power-hungry will
-a do HORRIBLE things .......
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:Correct. In fact it goes back to the Normans
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural PhilosopherI hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped
wrote:
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the
Catholic community (NORAID) that was spent on more bombs
and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a
few bucks in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that
time in the evening accordions, whistles, and the like would
appear and there would be a sing along of inspirational
songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
finance
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new about that, "The
Oppressor" must die ... age- old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or
some other guys from history.
Very few modern English people care if Ireland is partitioned of
reunited.
protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm
not sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general
foreigners do like to stir up trouble.
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 07:51:54 +0100, Pancho wrote:
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if Ireland
is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern Ireland
protestants,
in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm not sure South
Ireland wants them either.
At least Ian Paisley is dead and gone and wasn't replaced by another such asshole afaik. He gave Presbyterians a bad name.
But as for NI ... is some forcible, nasty,
-a expulsion of the Brits the BEST way to go ?
-a I think you will create a Ghetto State
-a run by maniacs.
On 13/09/2026 08:02, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 07:51:54 +0100, Pancho wrote:
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history. Very few modern English people care if Ireland
is partitioned of reunited. We don't favour the Northern Ireland
protestants,
in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm not sure South
Ireland wants them either.
At least Ian Paisley is dead and gone and wasn't replaced by another such
asshole afaik. He gave Presbyterians a bad name.
Oh absolutely.
Brits? That is some silly label. I'm English, Sean Connery, Andy Murray
are Scottish, Catherine Zeta Jones is Welsh. Liam Nesson is Irish, I had
to look it up to know that he was from the North. We are all European.
I don't think anyone serious wants to expel them, Ireland isn't Israel.
No that is very much the American and Spanish way, not the British.
-a Umm ... the Brits were pretty much always "SUBDUE
-a THE WOGS !". As self-superior as the Germans.
The land those 'inhabitants' invaded and murderedBecause we are supposed to have brought 'civilisation'
-a all the inhabitants ... who invaded and murdered ...
-a on and on it went for 25,000+ years.
-a So why is the current power one whit more murderous
-a or responsible ?
On 12/09/2026 10:26, Nuno Silva wrote:
Is it that difficult for some of you to grasp the concept that both the
Hamas and the current leadership of the IDF and of Israel may be equally
fanatics in that regard?
I saw a great you tube video where a commentator - cant remember who
it was - commented on an opinion poll done in Israel and
Gaza. Basically the only difference was that in Israel, 65% wanted
complete destruction of Hamas, whereas in Gaza 70% wanted the complete destruction of Israel...
Given that context, there is no solution.
On 2026-09-10 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The HAMAS plan to goad them into severe retaliation through
unspeakable acts of barbarism and then paint themselves as 'victims'
has unfortunately succeeded.
And allowed the latent anti-semitism in the Left to surface.
It has been known for year
I don't think anyone serious wants to expel them, Ireland isn't Israel.
-a Yea, yea, try to deflect ....
-a NOT gonna buy it - nobody should.
On 9/13/26 09:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/09/2026 08:02, rbowman wrote:
At least Ian Paisley is dead and gone and wasn't replaced by another
such
asshole afaik. He gave Presbyterians a bad name.
Oh absolutely.
Oh, I think the DUP is still full of arseholes. Paisley was just the representative of widely held community sentiment.
Look at all the problems there have been with power-sharing. FWIW I do
not mean to put all the blame on the Protestants, I just know politics
in the North is still seriously messed up.
On 2026-09-12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/09/2026 10:26, Nuno Silva wrote:
Is it that difficult for some of you to grasp the concept that both the
Hamas and the current leadership of the IDF and of Israel may be equally >>> fanatics in that regard?
I saw a great you tube video where a commentator - cant remember who
it was - commented on an opinion poll done in Israel and
Gaza. Basically the only difference was that in Israel, 65% wanted
complete destruction of Hamas, whereas in Gaza 70% wanted the complete
destruction of Israel...
Given that context, there is no solution.
While what you quote could make sense, youtube is hardly the place to
get accurate information. Especially given it's skewed to the right and far-right algorithmically.
Also raises questions on how polling is done given how many people have
died, the hazardous conditions on one side (how are you going to conduct
a poll in Gaza?) and that, on the other side, a lot of people are
probably not being included in sampling because, uh, they're deployed?
Or is the IDF at low levels of deployment?
Overall it raises enough questions.
But we can consider for a moment that it is true. Even if it is true,
there's a way out of it, and that is to opt by peace, to opt out of
assured mutual destruction.
Yet what's happening is that people promoting that option are being
labeled as "anti-semites" by those interested in keeping the war going
on. Some others are just cluelessly tagging along, I'm sure. It's
amazing how so many people consider it an unquestionable truth that
anyone criticizing that warfare must be an "anti-semite", but it's
probably telling of the echo chambers and bubbles on the right and
far-right.
You also have to consider that, if you opt to behave like this and throw under the SUV anyone who pushes for peace, for a different management of
the situation, or even for upholding the UN plan that has existed for
almost 80 years or a variation thereof, then the ones left may be the
ones who are supporting Hamas, i.e. a complete polarization of the
situation. On that side too some people may be cluelessly going along
the polarization...
There's a way out of this, but you have to at least give it conditions
to thrive. One of the problems of the far-right leadership of Israel,
and of those using "anti-semites" as the new "woke"(*) is that it
certainly doesn't create such conditions...
(*) As in the pejorative mis-usage from the right and far-right, and not
its actual dictionary meaning.
On 13/09/2026 10:01, Nuno Silva wrote:
It has been known for year
It has been known for years that this is the favourite way to
introduce a conspiracy theory...
On 2026-09-13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/09/2026 10:01, Nuno Silva wrote:
It has been known for year
It has been known for years that this is the favourite way to
introduce a conspiracy theory...
That part was written just because there's been a recent news bit about another nation having informed Netanyahu days before the attack, and
this is not the incident I'm talking of.
I'm talking of people having reported intel to their reports within intelligence organisations, or was it in the IDF, only to have their
warnings dismissed, besides at least one situation where they actually
got hands in copies of the plans (dismissed, IIRC, because somebody
thought Hamas was not capable of doing something like what was described
on the plans). This really reeks of the self-confidence that comes with extremist views held by fascists - if such people are in power, of
course they'd say "no way Hamas can do something like that, they're too stoopid". It's scary if all the sane people have been replaced like
this.
On 2026-09-10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-09-10 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The HAMAS plan to goad them into severe retaliation through
unspeakable acts of barbarism and then paint themselves as 'victims'
has unfortunately succeeded.
What about the Israel's government and military and intelligence plans
to let the attack happen, either out of stupidity, or of wanting the war
to start?
It has been known for years that Israel had shunned internally reports
of an upcoming attack, including, IIRC, intel with the actual plans for October 7.
If I were a resident or citizen of the State of Israel, I'd be quite
angry about that, and I'd want the current government replaced by
somebody who didn't jeopardize security and defense owing to political ideology...
And allowed the latent anti-semitism in the Left to surface.
That's just your usual misconception of what the left is.
The only real option would be for some third party to do what Britain
used to do. Move in and start shooting anybody who starts stirring up trouble.
On 2026-09-13 11:01, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-10, Carlos E.R. wrote:Aye.
On 2026-09-10 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The HAMAS plan to goad them into severe retaliation through
unspeakable acts of barbarism and then paint themselves as 'victims'
has unfortunately succeeded.
What about the Israel's government and military and intelligence plans
to let the attack happen, either out of stupidity, or of wanting the war
to start?
It has been known for years that Israel had shunned internally reports
of an upcoming attack, including, IIRC, intel with the actual plans for
October 7.
If I were a resident or citizen of the State of Israel, I'd be quite
angry about that, and I'd want the current government replaced by
somebody who didn't jeopardize security and defense owing to political
ideology...
And allowed the latent anti-semitism in the Left to surface.
That's just your usual misconception of what the left is.
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 10:37:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The only real option would be for some third party to do what Britain
used to do. Move in and start shooting anybody who starts stirring up
trouble.
Britain created the entire mess in the middle east. That includes when MI6 sucked the CIA into their 'Operation Boot' when the elected prime minister
of Iran wanted to audit the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
But as for NI ... is some forcible, nasty, expulsion of the Brits the
BEST way to go ?
I think you will create a Ghetto State run by maniacs.
On 9/13/26 03:14, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 23:05:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The land those 'inhabitants' invaded and murdered all the
inhabitants ... who invaded and murdered ...
on and on it went for 25,000+ years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Hell_Gate,_Montana#Native_American_and_western_settlement
The canyon was carved by the Clark Fork and is the easy way to travel
east. I-90 follows it closely. Even today there is no real alternate
route.
It's telling that in all of Lewis and Clark's wandering through the
lands of many tribes the only fatal contact was when they killed 3
Blackfeet who were trying to steal their horses and guns.
Lewis & Clark ??? That was just a SNAPSHOT, an instant in time.
Sorry, but 'the natives' did as much or more damage to themselves as
the euro settlers - for a long LONG time.
Drop the 'utopian' bullshit.
Britain created the entire mess in the middle east. That includes when MI6 sucked the CIA into their 'Operation Boot'* when the elected prime minister of Iran wanted to audit the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
On 13/09/2026 07:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:Correct. In fact it goes back to the Normans
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community (NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few
bucks in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that
time in the evening accordions, whistles, and the like would
appear and there would be a sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new about that, "The
Oppressor" must die ... age- old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history.
Very few modern English people care if Ireland is partitioned of
reunited.
Correct
We don't favour the Northern IrelandThat is the problem. They want to be British, not Irish.
protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm
not sure South Ireland wants them either.
On 2026-09-10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-09-10 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The HAMAS plan to goad them into severe retaliation through
unspeakable acts of barbarism and then paint themselves as 'victims'
has unfortunately succeeded.
What about the Israel's government and military and intelligence plans
to let the attack happen, either out of stupidity, or of wanting the war
to start?
It has been known for years that Israel had shunned internally reports
of an upcoming attack, including, IIRC, intel with the actual plans for October 7.
If I were a resident or citizen of the State of Israel, I'd be quite
angry about that, and I'd want the current government replaced by
somebody who didn't jeopardize security and defense owing to political ideology...
And allowed the latent anti-semitism in the Left to surface.
That's just your usual misconception of what the left is.
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 03:49:02 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/13/26 03:14, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 23:05:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The land those 'inhabitants' invaded and murdered all the
inhabitants ... who invaded and murdered ...
on and on it went for 25,000+ years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Hell_Gate,_Montana#Native_American_and_western_settlement
The canyon was carved by the Clark Fork and is the easy way to travel
east. I-90 follows it closely. Even today there is no real alternate
route.
It's telling that in all of Lewis and Clark's wandering through the
lands of many tribes the only fatal contact was when they killed 3
Blackfeet who were trying to steal their horses and guns.
Lewis & Clark ??? That was just a SNAPSHOT, an instant in time.
Sorry, but 'the natives' did as much or more damage to themselves as
the euro settlers - for a long LONG time.
Drop the 'utopian' bullshit.
What utopian bullshit is that? I grew up in the Iroquois Confederacy area, specifically the Mohawks. There is a reason Chingachgook was the last of
the Mohicans and it wasn't the Dutch.
On 9/13/26 2:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
------------
Britain created the entire mess in the middle east. That includes when
MI6
sucked the CIA into their 'Operation Boot'* when the elected prime
minister
of Iran wanted to audit the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
So Britain was supposed to let their companies be nationalized?
No sense in rehashing a 70+ year old event, but there was blame all around.
*Operation Ajax on this side of the pond.
On 9/13/26 2:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
------------
Britain created the entire mess in the middle east. That includes when
MI6 sucked the CIA into their 'Operation Boot'* when the elected prime
minister of Iran wanted to audit the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
So Britain was supposed to let their companies be nationalized?
No sense in rehashing a 70+ year old event, but there was blame all
around.
The Brits DID cause a lot of middle-eastern problems. Right after
WW-1 they decided to split a lot of 'traditional' territories in two
or three new 'countries' to prevent unification/resistance. Good for
the Brits,
BAD for everyone else down the line.
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 22:05:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The Brits DID cause a lot of middle-eastern problems. Right after
WW-1 they decided to split a lot of 'traditional' territories in two
or three new 'countries' to prevent unification/resistance. Good for
the Brits,
BAD for everyone else down the line.
When the Ottoman Empire was being divvied up Britain had promised the same real estate to three different parties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon%E2%80%93Hussein_correspondence
It's been decades but iirc 'Lawrence of Arabia' dealt with the Arabs attacking the Ottomans and coming out on the short end of the stick.
The Great Game was always simmering in the background too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game
I missed a lot when I read it as a kid but upon rereading it I realized
how much Kipling's 'Kim' was about Great Game intrigue.
And how did the Mohicans get that land, and how did the predecessors
get that land, and, and .......
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 20:59:55 -0400, c186282 wrote:
And how did the Mohicans get that land, and how did the predecessors
get that land, and, and .......
It's a good question
On 13/09/2026 07:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:Correct. In fact it goes back to the Normans
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community (NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few
bucks in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that
time in the evening accordions, whistles, and the like would
appear and there would be a sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new about that, "The
Oppressor" must die ... age- old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or some
other guys from history.
Very few modern English people care if Ireland is partitioned of
reunited.
Correct
We don't favour the Northern IrelandThat is the problem. They want to be British, not Irish.
protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'm
not sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,The point about Lyiv, is its a very long way away from the eastern front. Putin's serfs were told to take Kyiv. And that was nothing to do with
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general
foreigners do like to stir up trouble.
any armchair general foreigners.
Ukraine resisted. No one raised a finger to help them. Beyond the fact
that training and a few weapons had been given
USA and Russia had a tacit agreement. USA would not interfere. It would
do the minimum to signal its virtue and regretfully fail. NATO would not
be woken.
Eastern EX USSR Europe had other ideas. They weren't giving up their
freedom again...Despite some of their top politicians being Russian
agents...
US Intelligence had other ideas too. In a moment off rare and patriotic lucidity, unlike the administration, they realised what was at stake,
and intelligence streamed into Ukraine by every overt and covert
channel. And still does.
Now Russia is losing, badly.-a It's isolated and cannot stand
economically against Europe, the UK, and the commonwealth all of who are chipping in with weapons, training and civil aid. Over half its oil
refining capacity is offline, its biggest online retailer is flattened,
Its banks are technically in default. it has no routes to export any
more as one port, one ship and one railway after another is dismantled
by precision Ukrainian strikes.
On 9/13/26 05:01, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-09-10 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The HAMAS plan to goad them into severe retaliation through
unspeakable acts of barbarism and then paint themselves as 'victims'
has unfortunately succeeded.
What about the Israel's government and military and intelligence plans
to let the attack happen, either out of stupidity, or of wanting the war
to start?
It has been known for years that Israel had shunned internally reports
of an upcoming attack, including, IIRC, intel with the actual plans for
October 7.
If I were a resident or citizen of the State of Israel, I'd be quite
angry about that, and I'd want the current government replaced by
somebody who didn't jeopardize security and defense owing to political
ideology...
And allowed the latent anti-semitism in the Left to surface.
That's just your usual misconception of what the left is.
All I'm hearing are the usual Vast Konspiracies.
Frankly I don't think anybody was planning it all
out or even thinking much ahead - as typical. There
are fanatic nut-cases on all sides there. Opportunities
were seen, things were done, then everyone REACTED.
The cool, plotting, super-villains are mostly in FILMS.
Gaggles of Real People ... you get something closer to
chaos theory in action.
The hippie-dippies invented the myth of the wonderful
-a peaceful philosophical native tribes because it served
-a their "Peace & Love" bullshit. Was NEVER like that.
It's been decades but iirc 'Lawrence of Arabia' dealt with the Arabs attacking the Ottomans and coming out on the short end of the stick.
The Great Game was always simmering in the background too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game
I missed a lot when I read it as a kid but upon rereading it I realized
how much Kipling's 'Kim' was about Great Game intrigue.
On 9/13/26 04:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/09/2026 07:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:Correct. In fact it goes back to the Normans
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community (NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few >>>>>>> bucks in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that
time in the evening accordions, whistles, and the like would
appear and there would be a sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new about that, "The
Oppressor" must die ... age- old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or
some other guys from history.
Very few modern English people care if Ireland is partitioned of
reunited.
Correct
-a-a> We don't favour the Northern Ireland
protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'mThat is the problem. They want to be British, not Irish.
not sure South Ireland wants them either.
-a Sounds like Palestinians and Israelis ....
-a With similar results.
The cool, plotting, super-villains are mostly in FILMS.
-a Gaggles of Real People ... you get something closer to
-a chaos theory in action.
On 9/13/26 09:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/09/2026 07:51, Pancho wrote:
On 9/13/26 05:22, c186282 wrote:Correct. In fact it goes back to the Normans
On 9/12/26 15:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 10:27:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/09/2026 20:13, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 10:16:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>I hope you feel suitably guilty at the murders you helped finance
And then crawling to the USA for money to 'help the Catholic
community (NORAID) that was spent on more-a bombs and guns.
Back in the day when I hung around in Irish bars I'd slip a few >>>>>>> bucks in the NORAID jar when it came around. By that
time in the evening accordions, whistles, and the like would
appear and there would be a sing along of inspirational songs.
https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/erin-go-bragh.html
Not one shred of guilt. Gott strafe England.
Do "understand" the SENTIMENT ... nothing new about that, "The
Oppressor" must die ... age- old way of thinking.
The English oppressor was Oliver Cromwell, Tudors, or Henry II or
some other guys from history.
Very few modern English people care if Ireland is partitioned of
reunited.
Correct
-a-a> We don't favour the Northern Ireland
protestants, in fact we don't particularly want them in the UK. I'mThat is the problem. They want to be British, not Irish.
not sure South Ireland wants them either.
Pretty much like the people I worked with in Lviv Ukraine, in 2014,The point about Lyiv, is its a very long way away from the eastern front.
didn't care about Crimea or the Dmmbass, but armchair general
foreigners do like to stir up trouble.
Putin's serfs were told to take Kyiv. And that was nothing to do with
any armchair general foreigners.
Putin's serfs were told to invade Ukraine because of issues with Crimea
and the Dombas and because of security concerns about the Maidan
Revolution and NATO expansion before that. The security concerns were
very real. Foreign influence was very strong.
Ukraine resisted. No one raised a finger to help them. Beyond the fact
that training and a few weapons had been given
USA and Russia had a tacit agreement. USA would not interfere. It would
do the minimum to signal its virtue and regretfully fail. NATO would not
be woken.
Eastern EX USSR Europe had other ideas. They weren't giving up their
freedom again...Despite some of their top politicians being Russian
agents...
US Intelligence had other ideas too. In a moment off rare and patriotic
lucidity, unlike the administration, they realised what was at stake,
and intelligence streamed into Ukraine by every overt and covert
channel. And still does.
Now Russia is losing, badly.-a It's isolated and cannot stand
economically against Europe, the UK, and the commonwealth all of who are
chipping in with weapons, training and civil aid. Over half its oil
refining capacity is offline, its biggest online retailer is flattened,
Its banks are technically in default. it has no routes to export any
more as one port, one ship and one railway after another is dismantled
by precision Ukrainian strikes.
"Russia losing badly" does seem to depend on the media you read. Russia
is clearly not isolated. It has help from China and other BRICS
countries. I think most of the world outside Europe and the USA
sympathises with Russia trying to protect its security from US hegemony/NATO. Seeking to protect itself from US financial coercion
backed by military aggression. One only has to look at Iran, Venezuela,
Cuba to see the threat was real.
According to our media Russia has been on the point of collapse for five years. If Russia were really collapsing it would be a very dangerous situation. Similar to Iran, but far worse. Russia could attack high
value targets anywhere across the world. They also have a massive
nuclear arsenal. So what would you do if they started using their
version of storm shadow, or similar conventional weapons, bombing UK pipelines, power stations, sinking British ships, etc? The modern world
is very fragile.
But I don't think Russia is losing badly. I think Ukraine is largely destroyed. Russia can tolerate the current damage.
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
The data shows something different. That urbanisation multiplied the population tenfold and more.
Despite filth and pollution and all those ''Dark Satanic Mills'.
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:49:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The data shows something different. That urbanisation multiplied the
population tenfold and more.
Despite filth and pollution and all those ''Dark Satanic Mills'.
You say that like it's a good thing.
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia is
wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating >>> Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't
be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so now
I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia is
wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and a
whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. It isn't because I approve
of the USA, it is because I think I will be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Perhaps we should use the bloke looked at me funny so I hit him analogy.
The point being there are two sides. If we increase our own security we normally do so at the expense of the other party. So you get a
competition. You get fear.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia is
wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and a
whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries that
do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about Venezuela, or
Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. It isn't because
I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
Russia. 100%.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
And of course Iran.
Perhaps we should use the bloke looked at me funny so I hit him
analogy. The point being there are two sides. If we increase our own
security we normally do so at the expense of the other party. So you
get a competition. You get fear.
I cannot see anything two sided about marching into a neighboring
country and destroying it.
Either you just like pyschopaths or you think they are dangerous.
You don't make peace with psychopaths. You simply look dangerous enough
for them not to try.
Sadly America looked weak, And Trump made sure it was.
On 14/09/2026 19:50, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated >>>> to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the >>>> PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for >>>> what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about
beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't
be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so
now I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or
Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
It depends.
If you have money, you are less likely to be corruptible. Its what we
used to call 'fuck off' money
Once you have it you can tell people to fuck off.
I don't think Nigel or Zia or Richard are there for the money.
In the US, nothing is more important than money.
Not so much here
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war
escalated to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going
up. I see the PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard
winter. And all for what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I
give a fuck about beating Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation
with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American.
I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't be
supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
I don't think Nigel or Zia or Richard are there for the money.I think money corrupts. They may not have started for the money, but
they can be turned by it.
In the US, nothing is more important than money.????? People are People.
Not so much here
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:I don't know what their reasons are?
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia isWe cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and a
wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries that
do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about Venezuela, or
Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. It isn't because
I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
On 14/09/2026 18:46, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:49:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The data shows something different. That urbanisation multiplied the
population tenfold and more.
Despite filth and pollution and all those ''Dark Satanic Mills'.
You say that like it's a good thing.
Well actually it was. People were in fact healthier and lived longer in factories than fields
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating >>> Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of diesel >> is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't
be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get--
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so
now I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
On 14/09/2026 19:50, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated >>>> to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the >>>> PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for >>>> what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about
beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't
be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so
now I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or
Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
It depends.
If you have money, you are less likely to be corruptible. Its what we
used to call 'fuck off' money
Once you have it you can tell people to fuck off.
I don't think Nigel or Zia or Richard are there for the money.
In the US, nothing is more important than money.
Not so much here
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw your own conclusions.
On 2026-09-14, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated >>>> to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the >>>> PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for >>>> what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating >>>> Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of diesel >>> is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I wouldn't
be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
For the record, the last US presidential election was the 2024 election, *after* the attack on the Capitol, election meddling in Georgia, and
with Project 2025 in plain sight, and after the "but tradition!" party scrambled to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg with Amy Coney Barret.
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia is
wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and a
whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries that
do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about Venezuela, or
Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. It isn't
because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will be better
off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
I don't know what their reasons are?
Russia. 100%.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
I can understand security concerns that caused Russia to attack Ukraine.
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to attack
Iran.
Perhaps we should use the bloke looked at me funny so I hit him
analogy. The point being there are two sides. If we increase our own
security we normally do so at the expense of the other party. So you
get a competition. You get fear.
I cannot see anything two sided about marching into a neighboring
country and destroying it.
In recent memory the USA has attacked many countries across the globe.
They are currently threatening their neighbour Cuba. Why is it OK for
the USA? Israel has repeatedly attacked many of its neighbours, is that OK?
The truth is that national interests are intertwined. What do you do if
a neighbour threatens your interests, unreasonably?
I would like international rules, laws, to solve these problems. Law
with some kind of symmetry, what is good for the goose... National
interest needs to be subordinate to the global good. Like we subordinate
our personal freedom to the national good.
Either you just like pyschopaths or you think they are dangerous.
You don't make peace with psychopaths. You simply look dangerous
enough for them not to try.
That appears to be the view of Russia and Iran. Personally I would go
for security via international agreements.
Sadly America looked weak, And Trump made sure it was.
Why is it sad that America looks weak?
It isn't just Trump, or just the USA. Europe has shown itself to be unreliable too. The use of sanctions, of using the financial system as a weapon, was always short-sighted. The rest of the world just now sees
the USA and Europe financial system as unreliable, something to be
avoided. Who would trust them when they seize assets, and use denial of access to financial systems as a weapon.
On 9/14/26 20:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:50, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war
escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see >>>>> the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for >>>>> what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about
beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I
wouldn't be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so
now I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or
Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
It depends.
If you have money, you are less likely to be corruptible. Its what we
used to call 'fuck off' money
Once you have it you can tell people to fuck off.
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
I don't think Nigel or Zia or Richard are there for the money.
I think money corrupts. They may not have started for the money, but
they can be turned by it.
In the US, nothing is more important than money.
Not so much here
????? People are People.
As for Trump - there are some people he CAN'T tell
-a to go fuck off ... he's the POTUS, has to calculate
-a the Greater Interest. I'd trust HIM more there than
-a yer typical pro pols.
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 19:07:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 18:46, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:49:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The data shows something different. That urbanisation multiplied the
population tenfold and more.
Despite filth and pollution and all those ''Dark Satanic Mills'.
You say that like it's a good thing.
Well actually it was. People were in fact healthier and lived longer in
factories than fields
It was rather difficult to live in the fields after the Inclosure Acts.
They were a win-win for the land and factory owners.
On 9/14/26 13:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for
what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about beating >>> Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
-a Going nowhere really ...
-a The main diesel problem is Iran, not Russia.
-a However Russia sells, or sold, a fair amount
-a of fuel to India ... a nominal fence-sitter
-a who is kind-of sort-of our 'friend'. Without
-a Russian fuel, India puts a considerable strain
-a on the remaining world supply.
-a Anyway, Russian diesel drives a lot of Russian
-a tanks and most other mil shit plus bulk transport ...
-a Ukraine HAS to do damage.
-a And Trump has to appear to be 'doing something'.
On 9/14/26 15:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:50, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 18:43, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:20:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
I do know that due to this war and our sanctions against Russia my
energy bills will be going up. I do know that because the war
escalated
to shipping in the Black Sea my food prices will be going up. I see >>>>> the
PM's top advisor warns us that Europe faces a hard winter. And all for >>>>> what? He wants to beat Putin, but why should I give a fuck about
beating
Putin? I liked peaceful economic cooperation with Russia.
I wonder where Trump is going with his new theory that the price of
diesel
is high because the Ukraine is attacking Russian refineries?
Sad to say I would have supported Trump last election, if I were
American. I thought the claims against him were hysterical. I
wouldn't be supporting him at the midterms. But who do you support?
We have a new party in the UK, Reform. It looks like they might get
power. Over the weekend they received 72 million GBP crypto cash, so
now I guess they won't be doing anything different to what Labour or
Conservative would do if they won. Money talks.
It depends.
If you have money, you are less likely to be corruptible. Its what we
used to call 'fuck off' money
Once you have it you can tell people to fuck off.
I don't think Nigel or Zia or Richard are there for the money.
In the US, nothing is more important than money.
Not so much here
-a Heh heh ... until there's not ENOUGH-a :-)
-a What's the old bit about nations are always
-a three meals away from anarchy ?
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Of course you don't. You really don't want to know either.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia
is wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and
a whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries
that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about
Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA.
It isn't because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will
be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
I don't know what their reasons are?
So we will leave you in peace
Good grief.Russia. 100%.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors - Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Good grief.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?Russia. 100%.
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't
invaded anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Of course you don't. You really don't want to know either.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people.
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia >>>>>> is wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and >>>>> a whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries
that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about
Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. >>>>> It isn't because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will >>>>> be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
If their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
I don't know what their reasons are?
So we will leave you in peace
Good grief.Russia. 100%.
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Russia. 100%.
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Good grief.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
I can understand security concerns that caused Russia to attack
Ukraine.
There were no 'security concerns' any more than hitler had 'security concerns;' about the Sudetenland
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for
his insider trading chums.
It isn't just Trump, or just the USA. Europe has shown itself to be
unreliable too. The use of sanctions, of using the financial system
as a weapon, was always short-sighted. The rest of the world just
now sees the USA and Europe financial system as unreliable,
something to be avoided. Who would trust them when they seize
assets, and use denial of access to financial systems as a weapon.
You wanted international law, sanctions are it, Now you don't want
it. Make up your mind
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there
are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw your
own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and
intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me.
Iran has with the latest Houthi bollocks isolated Saudi and the gulf
states from all export.
And the USA is sitting there like a turd in a cesspool smelling as bad
and achieving as much.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors - Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Of course you don't. You really don't want to know either.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:I don't know what their reasons are?
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with RussiaWe cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and
is wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.
a whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries
that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about
Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA.
It isn't because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will
be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
So we will leave you in peace
Good grief.But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invadedRussia. 100%.WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the resultAh, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
And of course Iran.
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors - Chechnya,
Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
On 2026-09-15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Good grief.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?Russia. 100%.
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't
invaded anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
And Afghanistan and Iraq? Or is this only about other countries in the
same continent as mainland USA?
-2I believe the government that governs best is the government that
governs least. And by these standards, we have set up a fabulous
government in Iraq.-+ -- Stephen Colbert, speaking at the 2006 White
House Correspondents' Dinner [1]
[1] <https://speakola.com/political/colbert-correspondents-dinner-2006>
On 15/09/2026 08:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Didnt stay in either place though
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Of course you don't. You really don't want to know either. So we will
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:I don't know what their reasons are?
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people.
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia >>>>>>> is wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and >>>>>> a whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries >>>>>> that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about
Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. >>>>>> It isn't because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will >>>>>> be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
If their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
leave you in peace
Good grief.But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invadedRussia. 100%.WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result >>>>>>>Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
And of course Iran.
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 09:26:24 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Of course you don't. You really don't want to know either.
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:I don't know what their reasons are?
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Then don't. I know exactly why I care and so do many other people. If >>>>> their reasons are not relevant to you then that's where its at.
There is no such thing. Wanting peaceful co-operation with Russia >>>>>>> is wanting peaceful co-operation with a rabid dog.We cooperated with the USA, and it attacked Venezuela and Iran, and >>>>>> a whole host of countries before. We cooperate with many countries >>>>>> that do naughty shit. Deep down, I really don't care about
Venezuela, or Iran, I want to continue doing business with the USA. >>>>>> It isn't because I approve of the USA, it is because I think I will >>>>>> be better off.
I still don't have a clue why I should care about Ukraine.
So we will leave you in peace
Good grief.But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invadedRussia. 100%.WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result >>>>>>>Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
And of course Iran.
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors - Chechnya,
Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
No?
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
Venezuela hardly counts and the Bay of Pigs was an unsuccessful attempt at
an invasion. In the western hemisphere the invasion of Panama worked out better.
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to attack
Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for
his insider trading chums.
General rule - if it smells of 'extreme' then
DUMP it. No truth there only fanatics trying
to grub up as much power as possible.
As for Trump - there are some people he CAN'T tell
to go fuck off ...
he's the POTUS, has to calculate
the Greater Interest.
I'd trust HIM more there than
yer typical pro pols.
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving
into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Good grief.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
At the end of WWII, Germany, Poland, Czechslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, part of Japan (AFAIK still under Russian occupation). Liberation from Germany was no liberation at all
when it was traded for Soviet control instead. Subsequently East
Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia when they tried to break away, and
then Afghanistan, Georgia and Ukraine. Arguably Moldova, part of which remains occupied. 16-17.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
At the end of WWII, Germany.
(And of course many other German-occupied countries, but they then let
them choose their own government: a real liberation in other words.) Subsequently Dominican Republic, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan,
Somalia, Libya, Syria, Venezuela. Some of these may be arguable
depending exactly how we define rCyinvasionrCO. 10 total. Apologies if IrCOve missed any (for either).
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 01:52:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there
are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw your
own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and
intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me.
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to worry me. What's in it for the US?
The last thing Trump needs is another Tar-Baby.Isn't that considered a bit RAY CYST these days.
Venezuela (successfully). Cuba.
And Afghanistan and Iraq? Or is this only about other countries in the
same continent as mainland USA?
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
On 2026-09-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to attack
Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for
his insider trading chums.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
As for Trump - there are some people he CAN'T tellSo what? He doesn't even try. He just ignores them and
to go fuck off ...
does whatever he wants, legalities be damned. Unfortunately,
he's shown that when push comes to shove, the checks and
balances built into the system are ineffective. We're
no longer dealing with a "gentlemen's agreement" because
we're no longer dealing with gentlemen.
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Both of those preceded GrenadaAnd Japan. Duh.I don't recall USA invading anyone *since Grenada*...At the end of WWII, Germany.
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
Mind you, the USA is really a nation of burger eating surrender gibbons.
They go in, blow up everything in sight and leave a bigger mess than
before they went in in the first place.
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving
into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
On 15/09/2026 20:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Everybody says the AfD are far right, They look fairly centre right to
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
me
But the Left controls the media of course.
On 15/09/2026 18:48, rbowman wrote:
The last thing Trump needs is another Tar-Baby.Isn't that considered a bit RAY CYST these days.
Not exactly an invasion, but the USA did acts of war against Venezuela, including the kidnap of the president. Then they succeeded in placing a puppet president, nothing more was needed.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
On 15/09/2026 19:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-09-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Yes, that's all gone very quite hasn't it?
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for
his insider trading chums.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
Spotlight on the woman who killed her kids and the unaccountable refusal
of a jury to convict her
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:53:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2026 19:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-09-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Yes, that's all gone very quite hasn't it?
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for >>>> his insider trading chums.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
Spotlight on the woman who killed her kids and the unaccountable refusal
of a jury to convict her
I wonder how well Maxwell sleeps these days?
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 01:52:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that he
can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there
are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw your
own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and
intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me.
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to worry me. What's in it for the US?
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:51:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mind you, the USA is really a nation of burger eating surrender gibbons.
They go in, blow up everything in sight and leave a bigger mess than
before they went in in the first place.
Projection is a wonderful thing.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 20:24:39 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
Cuba hasn't been a threat since the missile crisis. I was in high school
at the time. They haven't even been successful in spreading communism.
Castro sent Guevara off mostly to get him out of his hair and that didn't work out well.
Must like the cold warriors that don't want the cold war to end, Cuban
expats in Miami keep the fires burning. Little Marco Rubio claimed his
family fled during the Castro regime. In truth they left when Batista was
in power but that doesn't give him much street cred.
I'm old enough to remember when Castro was a bold freedom fighter trying
to overthrow the corrupt Batista regime. Then he went off script and
became an existential threat to the US.
I enjoyed Arnie Coro's DXers Unlimited show. Completely unpolitical but
many times it would be jammed. Fidel's 7 hour speeches were an effective
way of jamming Radio Havana anyway.
On 9/15/26 13:30, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 01:52:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that
he can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there
are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw
your own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and
intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me.
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry me. What's in it for the US?
Straight off AOCs desk .....
On 2026-09-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:53:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2026 19:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-09-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Yes, that's all gone very quite hasn't it?
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices
for his insider trading chums.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
Spotlight on the woman who killed her kids and the unaccountable
refusal of a jury to convict her
I wonder how well Maxwell sleeps these days?
Probably about as well as any other psychopath.
On 15/09/2026 20:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Everybody says the AfD are far right, They look fairly centre right to me
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
But the Left controls the media of course.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 21:28:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving
into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Given Ceuta, how long before Vox and the Peoples' Party retire Sanchez?
Will Le Pen be able to get rid of Macron?--
Sweden appears to be a lost cause. For some reason the immigrants all
voted to bring in more immigrants. The Sweden Democrats are done.
The Danish People's Party is gaining ground.
The pendulum swings.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/09/2026 19:56, Pancho wrote:
On 9/14/26 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
WE already tried that, and the invasion of Ukraine was the result
Lots of people wanted peaceful co-operation with Hitler, too.
Ah, the Hitler analogy. But who is Hitler, Russia or NATO?
Bizarre that you have to ask. As you note below, Russia attacked
Ukraine.
Russia. 100%.
And of course Iran.
But why? Russia does less invading than the USA. Iran hasn't invaded
anyone, Iran just appears to be a repeated victim.
Good grief.
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
At the end of WWII,
Germany, Poland, Czechslovakia, Hungary, Romania,
Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, part of Japan (AFAIK still under Russian occupation). Liberation from Germany was no liberation at all
when it was traded for Soviet control instead. Subsequently East
Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia when they tried to break away, and
then Afghanistan, Georgia and Ukraine. Arguably Moldova, part of which remains occupied. 16-17.
I don't recall USA invading anyone since Grenada...
At the end of WWII, Germany. (And of course many other German-occupied countries, but they then let them choose their own government: a real liberation in other words.) Subsequently Dominican Republic, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Venezuela. Some of
these may be arguable depending exactly how we define rCyinvasionrCO. 10 total. Apologies if IrCOve missed any (for either).
(Vietnam, Korea and Kuwait were all joining an existing conflict on one
side; whatever their merits I donrCOt think they belong in the same category.)
I can understand security concerns that caused Russia to attack
Ukraine.
There were no 'security concerns' any more than hitler had 'security
concerns;' about the Sudetenland
Quite.
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for
his insider trading chums.
I donrCOt think itrCOs even that clever TBH, I think he thought itrCOd be a quick win.
It isn't just Trump, or just the USA. Europe has shown itself to be
unreliable too. The use of sanctions, of using the financial system
as a weapon, was always short-sighted. The rest of the world just
now sees the USA and Europe financial system as unreliable,
something to be avoided. Who would trust them when they seize
assets, and use denial of access to financial systems as a weapon.
You wanted international law, sanctions are it, Now you don't want
it. Make up your mind
Historically USA and Europe have used sanctions etc when things they
care about are threatened. Hardly surprising, if you hurt us then you
donrCOt get to play with our toys, why would anyone expect it to be otherwise?
To some extent the global influence of Western sanctions was already
coming to a close, as China builds parallel systems, but China already
throws its weight around in exactly the same way: if you upset China
then yourCOll find your supply of something important gets cut off.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:53:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2026 19:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-09-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Yes, that's all gone very quite hasn't it?
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:
I can't understand the security concerns that caused the USA to
attack Iran.
Well fair enough. It seems to have been solely to raise oil prices for >>>> his insider trading chums.
Plus it distracted the public from the Epstein Files [tm].
(Thanks to Jimmy Kimmel for the [tm] tag.)
Spotlight on the woman who killed her kids and the unaccountable refusal
of a jury to convict her
I wonder how well Maxwell sleeps these days?
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 20:24:39 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
Cuba hasn't been a threat since the missile crisis. I was in high school
at the time. They haven't even been successful in spreading communism.
Castro sent Guevara off mostly to get him out of his hair and that didn't work out well.
Must like the cold warriors that don't want the cold war to end, Cuban
expats in Miami keep the fires burning. Little Marco Rubio claimed his
family fled during the Castro regime. In truth they left when Batista was
in power but that doesn't give him much street cred.
I'm old enough to remember when Castro was a bold freedom fighter trying
to overthrow the corrupt Batista regime. Then he went off script and
became an existential threat to the US.
I enjoyed Arnie Coro's DXers Unlimited show. Completely unpolitical but--
many times it would be jammed. Fidel's 7 hour speeches were an effective
way of jamming Radio Havana anyway.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:51:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mind you, the USA is really a nation of burger eating surrender gibbons.
They go in, blow up everything in sight and leave a bigger mess than
before they went in in the first place.
Projection is a wonderful thing.
On 2026-09-16 02:56, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:51:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mind you, the USA is really a nation of burger eating surrender gibbons. >>> They go in, blow up everything in sight and leave a bigger mess than
before they went in in the first place.
Projection is a wonderful thing.
Iran, anyone?
The entire area is now an horrible mess, thanks to the USAians led by
Trump.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 21:28:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:Not up on ythat
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving
into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Given Ceuta, how long before Vox and the Peoples' Party retire Sanchez?
Will Le Pen be able to get rid of Macron?
Sweden appears to be a lost cause.Nope. Still in the fight
voted to bring in more immigrants. The Sweden Democrats are done.
The Danish People's Party is gaining ground.
The pendulum swings.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:58:26 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2026 20:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Everybody says the AfD are far right, They look fairly centre right to
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
me
But the Left controls the media of course.
Anybody opposing globalization, multiculturalism, immigration, and the EU
is obviously far right.
You know, people like Tommy Robinson. Some of his
shine wore off with the far right in this country after his tour of
Israel. Note: unlike the US far left that doesn't mean the far right has
any love for Moslems. Lock them all in a cage and see what crawls out.
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry
me. What's in it for the US?
-a Straight off AOCs desk .....
On 2026-09-16 01:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2026 20:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Everybody says the AfD are far right, They look fairly centre right to me
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually
moving into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
For the USA.
But the Left controls the media of course.
I have eyes.
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 21:28:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving
into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Given Ceuta, how long before Vox and the Peoples' Party retire Sanchez?
Will Le Pen be able to get rid of Macron?
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the USA
has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell me
stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the USA).
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:37:48 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/15/26 13:30, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 01:52:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that >>>>>> he can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there >>>>> are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw
your own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and >>>> intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me.
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry me. What's in it for the US?
Straight off AOCs desk .....
If you think I'm on the left you're fucking delusional. Just keep drinking that good old Kool-Aid.
On 2026-09-16, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 00:37:48 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/15/26 13:30, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 01:52:16 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/14/26 20:18, rbowman wrote:When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 23:05:10 +0100, Pancho wrote:
That's what I thought about Trump, but the clear suspicion is that >>>>>>> he can't tell some people to "fuck off".
He is New York City born and bred. If you look at cities proper there >>>>>> are more Jews in NYC than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Draw >>>>>> your own conclusions.
Nothing wrong with Jews - a culture that emphasizes excellence and >>>>> intelligence. Don't bitch - MEASURE UP instead.
You're a good computer guy, but your politics begins to worry me. >>>>
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry me. What's in it for the US?
Straight off AOCs desk .....
If you think I'm on the left you're fucking delusional. Just keep drinking >> that good old Kool-Aid.
But see, that's one problem afflicting the right these days, drinking on Kool-Aid according to which anyone who criticizes or points at the ideas
that clash with whatever a right-wing or far-right leadership is doing
must be "far-left".
Now go compare this with the cries of "anti-semitism" coming from some sectors. It's the same damn thing.
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the USA
has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell me
stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one NATO country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
Restructuring NATO against an unreliable, deceitful ally turned enemy is what is happening now.
Donald Trump shrieked that NATO must do its fair share.,
Now we/they are, and the net result is that the USA has lost nearly all
its influence.,
Eben a child of 3 could have worked that out. Just not Trump.
On 2026-09-16 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the
USA has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell
me stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the
USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one NATO
country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
He did not ask properly. He demanded, like an emperor, in a war of aggression, without meeting first to agree on things. Not something the treaty covers, really.
On 16/09/2026 17:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-16 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That doesn't contradict or indeed add anything to the point
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the
USA has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell
me stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the
USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one NATO
country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
He did not ask properly. He demanded, like an emperor, in a war of
aggression, without meeting first to agree on things. Not something
the treaty covers, really.
On 16/09/2026 01:52, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 20:24:39 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
Cuba hasn't been a threat since the missile crisis. I was in high
school at the time. They haven't even been successful in spreading
communism.
They did a first class job in S Africa.
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I would point
out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
On 2026-09-16, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 21:28:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-15 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And as their fair weather friends evaporate, Europe is gradually moving >>>> into gear with weapons expertise and intelligence.,
Not for long if the far right wins. Look at Germany.
Given Ceuta, how long before Vox and the Peoples' Party retire Sanchez?
Will Le Pen be able to get rid of Macron?
Ceuta is showing some incredible stupidity and lack of professional
standards in journalism, because the far-right and governments aligned
with these ideals are parroting claims that what happened in Ceuta is threatening the Schengen area.
But given that at least Wikipedia says Spain does border control from
the african enclaves, I can't see how would that be an issue, any
individual these groups are deeming as problematic would still be barred entry into Schengen?
The actual issue is probably that these border checks are unlawful,
because it appears that these enclaves are supposed to be in the
Schengen Area. But, in practice, it's as if they weren't... so what's
the far right crying about?
<https://enwp.org/Special_Member_State_territories_and_the_European_Union#Ceuta_and_Melilla>
On 16/09/2026 05:37, c186282 wrote:
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry me. What's in it for the US?
-a Straight off AOCs desk .....
Oh god, is that vapid tart still in the public eye?
I thought she had been put down in the public interest
The point is that the liberal EU planted bureaucrats have not delivered
a better standrad of living.
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have security
concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a Russian
concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on your
border is clearly a concern.
On 2026-09-16 18:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 17:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-16 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That doesn't contradict or indeed add anything to the point
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that
the USA has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why
you tell me stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is
dominated by the USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one
NATO country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
He did not ask properly. He demanded, like an emperor, in a war of
aggression, without meeting first to agree on things. Not something
the treaty covers, really.
It explains why no one in the NATO stepped up to support him in the Gulf.
Ceuta is not in the Schengen area. The controls are enforced when you
board a ship to go to the mainland, so those illegal immigrants can not
enter the rest of Europe unless they find a way to jump. Board illegally
a contraband boat or something of the sort. Some have tried and were captured.
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W.
Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or
even mislead to get in a war.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 01:10:21 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W.
Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or
even mislead to get in a war.
I think the only candidate might be Britain but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 01:10:21 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W.
Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or
even mislead to get in a war.
I think the only candidate might be Britain but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 20:35:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Ceuta is not in the Schengen area. The controls are enforced when you
board a ship to go to the mainland, so those illegal immigrants can not
enter the rest of Europe unless they find a way to jump. Board illegally
a contraband boat or something of the sort. Some have tried and were
captured.
not trying to start a fight but what does Spain get out of Ceuta? Yeah, history and all that but selling it to Morocco for a few tons of hashhish would seem to be the smart thing to do Sort of like the US saying to
Puerto Rico "You want to be free? Zap you're free. Godspeed and best of luck."
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the USA
has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell me
stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one NATO country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
Restructuring NATO against an unreliable, deceitful ally turned enemy is what is happening now.
Donald Trump shrieked that NATO must do its fair share.,
Now we/they are, and the net result is that the USA has lost nearly all
its influence.,
Eben a child of 3 could have worked that out. Just not Trump.
So in short it was reasonable for Russia to be concerned about NATO in Ukraine. Reasonable to believe that the US would use NATO as an
extension to its power to exert economic and political dominance.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 20:35:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Ceuta is not in the Schengen area. The controls are enforced when you
board a ship to go to the mainland, so those illegal immigrants can not
enter the rest of Europe unless they find a way to jump. Board illegally
a contraband boat or something of the sort. Some have tried and were
captured.
not trying to start a fight but what does Spain get out of Ceuta? Yeah, history and all that but selling it to Morocco for a few tons of hashhish
would seem to be the smart thing to do Sort of like the US saying to
Puerto Rico "You want to be free? Zap you're free. Godspeed and best of luck."
On 2026-09-17, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 20:35:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Ceuta is not in the Schengen area. The controls are enforced when you
board a ship to go to the mainland, so those illegal immigrants can not
enter the rest of Europe unless they find a way to jump. Board illegally >>> a contraband boat or something of the sort. Some have tried and were
captured.
not trying to start a fight but what does Spain get out of Ceuta? Yeah,
history and all that but selling it to Morocco for a few tons of hashhish
Is there much of an "history" edge to this? It's been with Spain since
the end of the Iberian Union, so that's some centuries, indeed, but,
before that, it was part of the Kingdom of Portugal*. For "historical" arguments, there'd be probably other options?
* (Okay, it was possibly under the "Kingdom of the Algarve(s)"
umbrella.)
On 2026-09-16 18:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 17:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-09-16 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That doesn't contradict or indeed add anything to the point
On 16/09/2026 08:20, Pancho wrote:
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the
USA has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you
tell me stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated
by the USA).
No, it isn't. Donald Trump has withdrawn his support and not one
NATO country has stepped up to support him in the Gulf
He did not ask properly. He demanded, like an emperor, in a war of
aggression, without meeting first to agree on things. Not something
the treaty covers, really.
It explains why no one in the NATO stepped up to support him in the Gulf.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:09:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 01:52, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 20:24:39 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, just more recent. Venezuela is obvious that it is for money gain.
What is Cuba for? I don't really know. They were not a danger anymore.
Cuba hasn't been a threat since the missile crisis. I was in high
school at the time. They haven't even been successful in spreading
communism.
They did a first class job in S Africa.
Castro wasn't even born when the SA Communist Party got off the ground. I don't know how much proselytism the Cuban doctors and engineers do.
As far
a Guevara, his adventures in Ghana and the Congo didn't go well either.
The CIA helped out in Ghana but I think the Congo fell apart on its own.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 08:20:03 +0100, Pancho wrote:
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I would point
out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
I thought Balfour gave Israel to the Jews.
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil servant
is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated legal
procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected from the public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of them.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 20:35:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Ceuta is not in the Schengen area. The controls are enforced when you
board a ship to go to the mainland, so those illegal immigrants can not
enter the rest of Europe unless they find a way to jump. Board illegally
a contraband boat or something of the sort. Some have tried and were
captured.
not trying to start a fight but what does Spain get out of Ceuta? Yeah, history and all that but selling it to Morocco for a few tons of hashhish would seem to be the smart thing to do Sort of like the US saying to
Puerto Rico "You want to be free? Zap you're free. Godspeed and best of luck."
-2In the 16th century, the Kingdom of Portugal was inherited by Philip II
of Spain and was annexed in 1580. Ceuta remained loyal to Philip II. In 1640, John, Duke of Braganza, proclaimed himself king of Portugal, but
Ceuta did not recognize that proclamation as legitimate and continued to belong to the kingdom of Philip IV of Spain.-+
So, it is very old as part of Spain. It is not a colony.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:26:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 05:37, c186282 wrote:
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to
finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to
worry me. What's in it for the US?
-a Straight off AOCs desk .....
Oh god, is that vapid tart still in the public eye?
I thought she had been put down in the public interest
No, she's reinventing herself with Woke 2.0 and seems to be testing the waters for a presidential run in 2028. Harris is a hard act to follow when
it comes to incompetence.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:21:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The point is that the liberal EU planted bureaucrats have not delivered
a better standrad of living.
It will be better when Canada joins the EU. Sort of.
Ursula is a barrel of
laughs. Remember those nuclear plants we shut down? We'd better fire them
up again to support the data centers.
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil
servant is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated
legal procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected
from the public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of
them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
On 16/09/2026 19:38, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:26:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 05:37, c186282 wrote:
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to >>>>> finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to >>>>> worry me. What's in it for the US?
-a Straight off AOCs desk .....
Oh god, is that vapid tart still in the public eye?
I thought she had been put down in the public interest
No, she's reinventing herself with Woke 2.0 and seems to be testing the
waters for a presidential run in 2028. Harris is a hard act to follow when >> it comes to incompetence.
Christ on a bike, do the Democrats WANT to lose again?
Harris wasn't so much incompetent as translucent like a--
jellyfish. Almost completely invisible.
On 2026-09-16, Pancho wrote:
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have
security concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a
Russian concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on
your border is clearly a concern.
Protip: if you don't want a neighbouring country to station a
significant amount of troops and missiles next to the border facing
you, don't go invading another neighbouring country.
Also applies to not wanting neighbours to ratify e.g. the Washington
Treaty.
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George
W. Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war
or even mislead to get in a war.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 01:10:21 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W.
Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or
even mislead to get in a war.
I think the only candidate might be Britain but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q
On 9/16/26 22:30, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 01:10:21 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it
via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W.
Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or
even mislead to get in a war.
I think the only candidate might be Britain but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q
-a By all reports, the Brits couldn't shoot their
-a way out of a wet paper bag these days. Between
-a the welfare state and mass expenditures on
-a their beloved 'immigrants' .........
-a When the USSR caved in, many just assumed Russia
-a and friends would never be a problem again, ever.
-a They then slashed their mil stuff to the bone
-a and concentrated on 'popular'/bribery spending
-a for political reasons. As typical, for political
-a reasons, they now can't take that money BACK.
-a "Free Stuff" given can NEVER be withdrawn.
-a Alas the Brits ain't getting much for their 'free'
-a pounds either .....
-a Just a few years, even if Vlad/Xi do nothing, the
-a UK will become a de-facto "failed state".
-a Then all the Islamists will take over (kind of HAVE
-a already it seems). The real/'original' Brits ...
-a kinda shit out of luck. Try evacuating to Canada, but
-a it's not much of an improvement.
-a Of course there's barely any such thing as a 'real
-a Brit' ... I'd nominate the island for "most invaded"
-a status going back 5000+ years. Nearest to 'real Brit'
-a are the Welsh.
Same for Spain. We have a suitable fool in the Right Wing, but he is not
in government, it is the left.
So in short it was reasonable for Russia to be concerned about NATO in Ukraine. Reasonable to believe that the US would use NATO as an
extension to its power to exert economic and political dominance.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 07:16:33 +0100, Pancho wrote:
So in short it was reasonable for Russia to be concerned about NATO in
Ukraine. Reasonable to believe that the US would use NATO as an
extension to its power to exert economic and political dominance.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/17/missile-defence-shield- barack-obama
That was a Bush scheme that Obama inherited. 'We're going to put a missile base in Poland to protect Europe from Iran." For some strange reason
Russia cried 'Bullshit!".
On 2026-09-17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil
servant is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated
legal procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected
from the public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of
them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
Actually, the rise in demands for inhumane treatment, and that there are
some state-backed actors that end up doing something along these lines,
are reasons to want to remain in the EU and to appreciate the ECHR.
The far right will probably suddenly change their opinion when it's
cases about freedom of speech that reach the ECHR.
On 2026-09-17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:38, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:26:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 05:37, c186282 wrote:
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to >>>>>> finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to >>>>>> worry me. What's in it for the US?
-a Straight off AOCs desk .....
Oh god, is that vapid tart still in the public eye?
I thought she had been put down in the public interest
No, she's reinventing herself with Woke 2.0 and seems to be testing the
waters for a presidential run in 2028. Harris is a hard act to follow when >>> it comes to incompetence.
Christ on a bike, do the Democrats WANT to lose again?
Actually, what may have contributed to some losses on the Democrats'
side is the insistence from their establishment in refusing candidates
in any way left of the right like AOC or Sanders.
Remember how Hillary was picked over Sanders, in an election where what
may have guided sufficient votes was a desire to "break with the establishment"?
Whatever candidate they pick is going to be attacked in the same way by
the far-right painting them as "socialist", "incompetent", "commie",
etc. So they may as well choose someone competent who represents a
departure from the current mess, there's no point in trying to appease
these cries, they'll exist no matter who the candidate is.
Harris wasn't so much incompetent as translucent like a
jellyfish. Almost completely invisible.
On 16/09/2026 19:43, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:21:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The point is that the liberal EU planted bureaucrats have not delivered
a better standrad of living.
It will be better when Canada joins the EU. Sort of.
So far its more a bunch of words and a defence pact. Maybe a trade pact.
On 17/09/2026 04:19, c186282 wrote:
On 9/16/26 22:30, rbowman wrote:The core is there. But its very small.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 01:10:21 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It doesn't matter how much he asks or how he asks, he ain't getting it >>>> via NATO, the only way is perhaps if he pulls something like George W. >>>> Bush did and rounds up a few other people to foolishly get in a war or >>>> even mislead to get in a war.
I think the only candidate might be Britain but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q
-a-a By all reports, the Brits couldn't shoot their
-a-a way out of a wet paper bag these days. Between
-a-a the welfare state and mass expenditures on
-a-a their beloved 'immigrants' .........
BUT who do you think taught Ukraine how to fight?
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil servant
is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated legal
procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected from the
public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
It does annoy me that the USA still has several territories that are basically second-class. It's also a huge insult to the history of the
USA,
besides hypocritical as hell.
On 17/09/2026 10:53, Carlos E.R. wrote:
-2In the 16th century, the Kingdom of Portugal was inherited by PhilipBack then half of France belonged to England...
II of Spain and was annexed in 1580. Ceuta remained loyal to Philip II.
In 1640, John, Duke of Braganza, proclaimed himself king of Portugal,
but Ceuta did not recognize that proclamation as legitimate and
continued to belong to the kingdom of Philip IV of Spain.-+
So, it is very old as part of Spain. It is not a colony.
We should take it back.
European nations didn't care if that extended Eastward to the pacific,
but it did care that Russia always wanted Europe and would do its
damnedest to destroy anything connected with Western democracy anywhere
it found it in the world.
On 17/09/2026 07:05, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Same for Spain. We have a suitable fool in the Right Wing, but he isSo a Confederacy of Dunces, instead?
not in government, it is the left.
On 16/09/2026 19:22, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 08:20:03 +0100, Pancho wrote:
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I would point
out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
I thought Balfour gave Israel to the Jews.
I assume he was only crystallizing GodSwillrao
The Gulf states and Israelis do, and Turkey, Pakistan and IIRC Saudi are
all combining to put the mad dog side of radical Islam down.
On 17/09/2026 07:16, Pancho wrote:
So in short it was reasonable for Russia to be concerned about NATO in
Ukraine. Reasonable to believe that the US would use NATO as an
extension to its power to exert economic and political dominance.
If it was, then he did exactly the wrong thing, since NATO now has two
more members and a huge amount more funding from Europe, due to his activities in Ukraine.
In short his propaganda lie has become true.
If he is a clever and reasonable man, why did he do that?
Of course the USA never gave two fucks about Ukraine. And in terms of
its political and economic dominance, Donald has completely destroyed that.
All he understands is how to puff out his enormous gut and lie
convincingly to his fellow stupid Americans. Who just love being told
how great they are, even if the price of gas has doubled, they have made utter idiots of themselves over Iran-a and they get jeered at every time they step off-a a plane anywhere else in the world.
Even Canada is sick of them.
And also that Putin is no master chess player either. Not when it comes
to actual open hot war, rather than the cold war of destroying his
'enemies' from within.
He assumed that more tanks and more men and a West that had always let
him get away with it and a fully paid up asset in the White House would ensure a walkover in days.
You wont find anything that is key or significant or strategic in the media,. All they want is glorious battles lost and call of duty played
with real guns
Wake up. War is not what you think it is. And its not what Putin or
Trump think it is either.
No one in NATO gave a tuppeny fuck about Russia *as long as it stayed in Russia*. It was simply that traditionally it had never been content with that.
As it turns out, not spending more money on useless American Hi Tech weaponry and cannon fodder was actually serendipitous: we have money to spare for what we actually need. Highly advanced but cheap unmanned
weapons, and a strategy to use them.
The game is now to subdue Russia and Iran, not by sending troops, but working with our actual allies in Europe, Canada, SE Asia and
Australasia and the Middle East, to work out how to counter the
asymmetric threats and build a war machine that will dismantle the
enemy's without doing too much harm to civilians. And at best cost.
Trump has Made America Irrelevant Again.-a We have learnt to nod politely and ignore it,
If it wants to destroy itself following another stupid populist-a leader,
-athis time on the so called right, instead of left, we don't have the ability to alter that and interfering would not be productive. Americans have to grow up on their own
We will probably end up paying the Saudis and the UAE some money, to
help them against Iran ...the Ukrainians are already selling them huge amounts of drone technology, since F35s are completely useless.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:26:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil servant
is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated legal
procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected from the
public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
It figures Canada wants to jump in as others are leaving the party. It's
all performative of course since 'associate member' is something Ursus
arctos made up on the fly.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 10:21:05 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It does annoy me that the USA still has several territories that are
basically second-class. It's also a huge insult to the history of the
USA,
besides hypocritical as hell.
The US should give Guam to whoever wants it and let Puerto Rico declare
its independence. There is as much likelihood of that as the UK letting
the sheep shaggers on the Falklands go.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:31:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 10:53, Carlos E.R. wrote:
-2In the 16th century, the Kingdom of Portugal was inherited by PhilipBack then half of France belonged to England...
II of Spain and was annexed in 1580. Ceuta remained loyal to Philip II.
In 1640, John, Duke of Braganza, proclaimed himself king of Portugal,
but Ceuta did not recognize that proclamation as legitimate and
continued to belong to the kingdom of Philip IV of Spain.-+
So, it is very old as part of Spain. It is not a colony.
We should take it back.
Don't you already have enough diversity?
On 2026-09-16, Pancho wrote:
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have security
concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a Russian
concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on your
border is clearly a concern.
Protip: if you don't want a neighbouring country to station a
significant amount of troops and missiles next to the border facing you, don't go invading another neighbouring country.
Also applies to not wanting neighbours to ratify e.g. the Washington
Treaty.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:25:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:22, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 08:20:03 +0100, Pancho wrote:
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I would point
out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
I thought Balfour gave Israel to the Jews.
I assume he was only crystallizing GodSwillrao
Sure. He was crystallizing Chaim Weizmann's will in return for his acetone method or Britain would have been using black powder in WWI instead of cordite.
Gripe: mystery writers love the smell of cordite. I don't thing anyone has used cordite in a very long time.
On 9/17/26 13:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 07:16, Pancho wrote:
So in short it was reasonable for Russia to be concerned about NATO
in Ukraine. Reasonable to believe that the US would use NATO as an
extension to its power to exert economic and political dominance.
If it was, then he did exactly the wrong thing, since NATO now has two
more members and a huge amount more funding from Europe, due to his
activities in Ukraine.
In short his propaganda lie has become true.
If he is a clever and reasonable man, why did he do that?
You do like to personalise issues. My point was not about Putin, but
about Russia's geopolitical concerns.
I presume Putin hoped an initial show of force would be enough. It
wasn't, but it might well be that the cost of a nominal change in the
status of Finland and Sweden was less important than a very real change
in the status of Ukraine. There is also an argument that a show of force
now deters future NATO expansion in other countries.
I don't support Russia, like a football team. I would be happy if
Ukraine could win and there was peace. I would be happy if Russia could
win and there was peace. I would be happy with a draw and there was
peace.-a Mainly I would like cheap Russian gas, low military spending,
and a reduced fear of nuclear war. My problem is that I don't see any
way Ukraine can win, without huge cost to everyone.
Of course the USA never gave two fucks about Ukraine. And in terms of
its political and economic dominance, Donald has completely destroyed
that.
Biden didn't care either.
All he understands is how to puff out his enormous gut and lie
convincingly to his fellow stupid Americans. Who just love being told
how great they are, even if the price of gas has doubled, they have
made utter idiots of themselves over Iran-a and they get jeered at
every time they step off-a a plane anywhere else in the world.
Even Canada is sick of them.
With good reason. I don't know a lot about Carney, but he is one of the
few politicians that appears ballpark competent.
I wonder why more
politicians aren't like Carney. I guess electorates like something more exciting.
Russia will ally with China. If we avoid open war, I doubt we will haveIllusory. China wants nothing from Russia except its land in the east
much influence.
Why do we need to subdue Iran?. I strongly suspect that if we left them alone they would liberalise, become more western than Turkey. However, I guess they too will ally with China.
Trump has Made America Irrelevant Again.-a We have learnt to nod
politely and ignore it,
If it wants to destroy itself following another stupid populist
leader, -a-athis time on the so called right, instead of left, we don't
have the ability to alter that and interfering would not be
productive. Americans have to grow up on their own
Trump and Europe have also made the financial systems irrelevant. Trump didn't really cause any of this, he just accelerated it.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 12:11:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
We will probably end up paying the Saudis and the UAE some money, to
help them against Iran ...the Ukrainians are already selling them huge
amounts of drone technology, since F35s are completely useless.
The Saudis can't even sort out Yemen. All the tech in the world doesn't matter if they don't have the will.
On 9/17/26 00:58, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-16, Pancho wrote:
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have security
concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a Russian
concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on your
border is clearly a concern.
Protip: if you don't want a neighbouring country to station a
significant amount of troops and missiles next to the border facing you,
don't go invading another neighbouring country.
Venezuela, and Iran didn't go invading anyone?
On 2026-09-17 13:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 04:19, c186282 wrote:
-a-a By all reports, the Brits couldn't shoot their
-a-a way out of a wet paper bag these days. Between
-a-a the welfare state and mass expenditures on
-a-a their beloved 'immigrants' .........
The core is there. But its very small.
BUT who do you think taught Ukraine how to fight?
They fought very well in WWII. The Russians should know it is a very bad idea to fight them, specially in cities.
On 9/17/26 00:58, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-16, Pancho wrote:
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have security
concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a Russian
concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on your
border is clearly a concern.
Protip: if you don't want a neighbouring country to station a
significant amount of troops and missiles next to the border facing you,
don't go invading another neighbouring country.
Venezuela, and Iran didn't go invading anyone?
Also applies to not wanting neighbours to ratify e.g. the Washington
Treaty.
I think that is what we call the North Atlantic treaty in the UK?, but
I guess the US has the American Gulf and Lake America, so Washington
Treaty is fine/ The only problem is some people might not understand
what you are talking about.
On 17/09/2026 00:58, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-16, Pancho wrote:LOL.
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have
security concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a
Russian concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on
your border is clearly a concern.
Protip: if you don't want a neighbouring country to station a
significant amount of troops and missiles next to the border facing
you, don't go invading another neighbouring country.
The West didn't start the cold war, Russia simply annexed all of Eastern Europe and the rest of the West were too tired to fight.
-aAnd then the Russians stationed their tanks all along the border of Eastern Europe, and all democracy vanished behind an 'iron curtain'
I thought Puerto Rico liked being USian
Where is guam? It sounds like a food additive.
On 17/09/2026 21:16, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:26:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil
servant is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated
legal procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected
from the public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of
them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
It figures Canada wants to jump in as others are leaving the party.
It's all performative of course since 'associate member' is something
Ursus arctos made up on the fly.
Indeed. Wouldn't create it for the UK tho.
On 17/09/2026 21:20, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:31:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 10:53, Carlos E.R. wrote:
-2In the 16th century, the Kingdom of Portugal was inherited by Philip >>>> II of Spain and was annexed in 1580. Ceuta remained loyal to PhilipBack then half of France belonged to England...
II.
In 1640, John, Duke of Braganza, proclaimed himself king of Portugal,
but Ceuta did not recognize that proclamation as legitimate and
continued to belong to the kingdom of Philip IV of Spain.-+
So, it is very old as part of Spain. It is not a colony.
We should take it back.
Don't you already have enough diversity?
French are OK. Nice ladies mostly.
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities. Not yet, anyway.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar. Maybe Putin thinks he
can soften up Kyiv and then invade. The plan isn't going too well...
I think that is what we call the North Atlantic treaty in the UK?, but I guess the US has the American Gulf and Lake America, so Washington
Treaty is fine/ The only problem is some people might not understand
what you are talking about.
It *is* a name for the treaty establishing the North Atlantic allianceEPRS_ATA(2022)739250_EN.pdf>
and NATO-OTAN.
<https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2022/739250/
n 17/09/2026 21:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:25:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You do talk such bollocks.
On 16/09/2026 19:22, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 08:20:03 +0100, Pancho wrote:
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I would
point out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
I thought Balfour gave Israel to the Jews.
I assume he was only crystallizing GodSwillrao
Sure. He was crystallizing Chaim Weizmann's will in return for his
acetone method or Britain would have been using black powder in WWI
instead of cordite.
It was never that simple
Gripe: mystery writers love the smell of cordite. I don't thing anyone
has used cordite in a very long time.
Well the actual propellants are essentially the same, only the
stabilisers have changed I think. So it probably smells the same
On 17/09/2026 11:54, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-09-17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:ROFLMAO.
On 16/09/2026 19:38, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 11:26:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 05:37, c186282 wrote:
When Trump started a war with Iran that he isn't going to be able to >>>>>>> finish gracefully on the behest of Netanyahu his politics started to >>>>>>> worry me. What's in it for the US?
-a-a -a Straight off AOCs desk .....
Oh god, is that vapid tart still in the public eye?
I thought she had been put down in the public interest
No, she's reinventing herself with Woke 2.0 and seems to be testing the >>>> waters for a presidential run in 2028. Harris is a hard act to
follow when
it comes to incompetence.
Christ on a bike, do the Democrats WANT to lose again?
Actually, what may have contributed to some losses on the Democrats'
side is the insistence from their establishment in refusing candidates
in any way left of the right like AOC or Sanders.
Remember how Hillary was picked over Sanders, in an election where what
may have guided sufficient votes was a desire to "break with the
establishment"?
Whatever candidate they pick is going to be attacked in the same way by
the far-right painting them as "socialist", "incompetent", "commie",
etc. So they may as well choose someone competent who represents a
departure from the current mess, there's no point in trying to appease
these cries, they'll exist no matter who the candidate is.
Well 'competent' and AOC do not exist in the same sentence.
Kristi Noem and AOC are two side of the same coin. American, Attracative
in a superficial way, thicker than mince, and hence filled with the same total self assurance of the terminally ignorant.
Every party has one.
http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/OurAnge.png
Harris wasn't so much incompetent as translucent like a
jellyfish. Almost completely invisible.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 23:27:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities. Not yet, anyway.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar. Maybe Putin thinks he
can soften up Kyiv and then invade. The plan isn't going too well...
The Russians did take a shot at Kiev directly. I don't know why that
fizzled, possibly memories of door-to-door fighting in Chehnya. I will withhold judgment on how well it's going. With all the bullshit generated
by both sides the fertilizer blockaded in Hormuz will hardly be missed.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 22:06:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
n 17/09/2026 21:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:25:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You do talk such bollocks.
On 16/09/2026 19:22, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 08:20:03 +0100, Pancho wrote:
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave >>>>>> Israel to the Jews in Moses' era. But as you raised it, I wouldI thought Balfour gave Israel to the Jews.
point out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed. >>>>>
I assume he was only crystallizing GodSwillrao
Sure. He was crystallizing Chaim Weizmann's will in return for his
acetone method or Britain would have been using black powder in WWI
instead of cordite.
It was never that simple
Well then explain to me in simple terms what Balfour was doing. The
actions of Perfidious Albion are often inscrutable.
Gripe: mystery writers love the smell of cordite. I don't thing anyone
has used cordite in a very long time.
Well the actual propellants are essentially the same, only the
stabilisers have changed I think. So it probably smells the same
https://crimefictionbook.com/2015/04/30/whats-the-smell-cordite-vs- gunpowder-vs-propellant/
I've never smelled cordite so I wouldn't know. I do use several different formulations of smokeless powder and each has a distinctive smell. None of them smells like black powder, which definitely isn't smokeless and smells like the devil farted.
Writers can tell a good tale but often aren't that familiar with their
props, hence the .12 gauge shotgun and so forth. There was one writer who
did know his stuff. He liked to troll the readers by having his man switch the safety off on his revolver. Howls of protest followed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley%E2%80%93Fosbery_Automatic_Revolver
Some German revolvers had safeties, and a few models had a grip safety.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Safety_Hammerless
The hero just happened to carry one of the rare models.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 23:27:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities. Not yet, anyway.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar. Maybe Putin thinks he
can soften up Kyiv and then invade. The plan isn't going too well...
The Russians did take a shot at Kiev directly. I don't know why that
fizzled, possibly memories of door-to-door fighting in Chehnya. I will withhold judgment on how well it's going. With all the bullshit generated
by both sides the fertilizer blockaded in Hormuz will hardly be missed.
Trump HAS been cultivating some of the smaller,
-a more efficient, less treasonous, corps that make
-a drones and such. Alas it's not enough. While
-a they may make good stuff, they can't make it
-a in enough QUANTITY yet. The Big Boys seem to
-a be doing their best to get in the way too.
-a Wonder why ?
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 21:57:35 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I thought Puerto Rico liked being USian
They don't know what they want and have periodic referendums. The people wanting complete independence are a small minority. There is a sort of sovereign nation but not really faction. Then there are the ones that want
to become a state.
I doubt statehood is ever going to happen although the Democrats would
love the additional votes. We did two projects in PR, one for San Juan
alone and one for the whole island. It's strictly Latin America with all
the inefficiency and corruption that implies.
Where is guam? It sounds like a food additive.
It's in the Marianas, a leftover from the Spanish American War. The
Japanese captured it the same day as they attacked Pearl Harbor. The US finally recaptured it. Handy place to launch air strikes on mainland
Japan.
I was recently reminded of it when looking at some legacy NOAA FORTRAN to convert coordinate systems. SPCS is a nice Cartesian system in feet or
meters that has minimal distortion for the area it's centered on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Plane_Coordinate_System
Anyway, the assumption was everything would be in the western hemisphere, which simplifies matters. The someone remembered Guam, whci is in the
eastern hemisphere. It took several whacks to get it right. A couple of
the Aleutians are in the east too but nobody lives there except seals.
Guam exists on the military and tourism. I think most of the tourism is Asian. USians make it as far as Hawaii and lose interest.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 21:54:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 21:16, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:26:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/09/2026 19:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The right wing is just setting fire to the situation, demanding the
immigrants be just returned. They know full well that any civil
servant is afraid of not crossing all the 't's in the complicated
legal procedure, because they risk facing a court and being ejected
from the public service for maybe 9 years. This happened to two of
them.
That is why people want to leave the EU. And the ECHR
It figures Canada wants to jump in as others are leaving the party.
It's all performative of course since 'associate member' is something
Ursus arctos made up on the fly.
Indeed. Wouldn't create it for the UK tho.
You ingrates voted to leave and you expect some special status?
Bad enough
the Scandinavians all want their special little carve outs. Van der Leyden wants to rule Europe and not herd a bunch of damn cats.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 21:58:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 21:20, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 11:31:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 10:53, Carlos E.R. wrote:
-2In the 16th century, the Kingdom of Portugal was inherited by Philip >>>>> II of Spain and was annexed in 1580. Ceuta remained loyal to PhilipBack then half of France belonged to England...
II.
In 1640, John, Duke of Braganza, proclaimed himself king of Portugal, >>>>> but Ceuta did not recognize that proclamation as legitimate and
continued to belong to the kingdom of Philip IV of Spain.-+
So, it is very old as part of Spain. It is not a colony.
We should take it back.
Don't you already have enough diversity?
French are OK. Nice ladies mostly.
My familiarity is with the Qubecsoise. They're sort of French.
On 9/15/26 18:30, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 14/09/2026 23:01, Pancho wrote:Bizarre that you have to ask. As you note below, Russia attacked
Ukraine.
The USA has attacked many countries, a quick google gives that the USA
has attacked 10 countries the century. I don't know why you tell me
stuff I know, but ignore USA aggression (NATO is dominated by the
USA).
Good grief.At the end of WWII,
Russia is constantly invading and controlling its neighbors -
Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus Ukraine.
FFS, this is like an Israel debate where someone pipes up God gave
Israel to the Jews in Moses' era.
But as you raised it, I would point out Russia lost 20 million in WW2, Putin's brother was killed.
The civil war in Ukraine was an ongoing conflict.
Of course there were security concerns. All countries have security
concerns. Access to warm water ports has always been a Russian
concern. Having unfriendly troops and missiles stationed on your
border is clearly a concern.
The specifics of this case are that since 1992 the USA has used its
military and economic hegemony to unreasonably coerce other
countries. Remember, prior to 2022, the USA put sanctions on Nord
Stream 2, what business was it of theirs?
One of the main consequences of our proxy war with Russia is that we
have handed Russia to China on a plate.
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 00:57:57 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
It *is* a name for the treaty establishing the North Atlantic allianceEPRS_ATA(2022)739250_EN.pdf>
and NATO-OTAN.
<https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2022/739250/
I suppose the European Parliament can call it whatever they want. Don't expect name recognition anywhere else.
On 9/17/26 22:54, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 23:27:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities.-a Not yet, anyway.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar.-a Maybe Putin thinks he >>> can soften up Kyiv and then invade.-a The plan isn't going too well...
The Russians did take a shot at Kiev directly. I don't know why that
fizzled, possibly memories of door-to-door fighting in Chehnya. I will
withhold judgment on how well it's going. With all the bullshit generated
by both sides the fertilizer blockaded in Hormuz will hardly be missed.
-a Putin totally underestimated Ukraine. His big
-a armor advance on Kyiv was handily DESTROYED -
-a ushering in the long current tit-4-tat war.
-a They KNEW Putin was after them - and found good
-a cheap simple ways to thwart him.
-a Brilliant.
-a Ukraine can be credited for setting the 21st
-a century paradigm for war - drones and high-
-a def intel on enemy movements. The days of
-a tanks, maybe even aircraft carriers and all
-a such "big slow targets", seems OVER. That
-a shit is all LAST century ... like the huge
-a British charges on German machine-gun nests
-a defined the very very bitter end of 19th-century
-a military tactics.
-a The USA/EU are a bit BEHIND the curve alas.
-a The Chinese aren't. The 'west', esp USA,
-a are hostage to the Military Industrial
-a Rip-Off Complex. Ike warned about them ...
-a nobody listened. They slow down everything
-a and make it all 10x as expensive.
-a A few arrests for "treasonous malfeasance
-a and profiteering" are in order.
-a Trump HAS been cultivating some of the smaller,
-a more efficient, less treasonous, corps that make
-a drones and such. Alas it's not enough. While
-a they may make good stuff, they can't make it
-a in enough QUANTITY yet. The Big Boys seem to
-a be doing their best to get in the way too.
-a Wonder why ?
Their biggest failing is a terrible addiction to socialism. Which means,
to them 'la bonne vie' 'sans travail'. The government is expected to
deliver them wealth without any actual effort being made on their part.
On 18/09/2026 03:41, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 21:57:35 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:The Puerto Ricans online seem to be pretty nice people. I guess they
I thought Puerto Rico liked being USian
They don't know what they want and have periodic referendums. The
people wanting complete independence are a small minority. There is a
sort of sovereign nation but not really faction. Then there are the
ones that want to become a state.
I doubt statehood is ever going to happen although the Democrats would
love the additional votes. We did two projects in PR, one for San Juan
alone and one for the whole island. It's strictly Latin America with
all the inefficiency and corruption that implies.
made it to the States.
Bear in mind that Ukraine wants and expects to be a fully recognised
nation after it beats Russia. It cares about truth and it cares about
war crimes. Mostly it only claims what it has evidence for.
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:27:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bear in mind that Ukraine wants and expects to be a fully recognised
nation after it beats Russia. It cares about truth and it cares about
war crimes. Mostly it only claims what it has evidence for.
They can go back to being the poorest and most corrupt nation in Europe, poorer than before.
On 18/09/2026 21:07, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:27:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bear in mind that Ukraine wants and expects to be a fully recognised
nation after it beats Russia. It cares about truth and it cares about
war crimes. Mostly it only claims what it has evidence for.
They can go back to being the poorest and most corrupt nation in
Europe,
poorer than before.
I wonder where you get your data from.
What you describe is either Bulgaria, or Albania.
On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 11:24:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2026 21:07, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:27:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bear in mind that Ukraine wants and expects to be a fully recognised
nation after it beats Russia. It cares about truth and it cares about
war crimes. Mostly it only claims what it has evidence for.
They can go back to being the poorest and most corrupt nation in
Europe,
poorer than before.
I wonder where you get your data from.
What you describe is either Bulgaria, or Albania.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poorest-countries-in- europe
https://govisafree.com/poorest-countries-in-europe/
It's difficult to find historical rankings but
https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/poorest-countries-in-europe
"The six poorest countries in this ranking, Moldova, Ukraine, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, North Macedonia, and Serbia, share a set of
structural barriers that have kept them at the bottom of European wealth tables since the 1990s."
As far as corruption goes the Ukraine has its very own wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
The data I found placed Russia at the very bottom of the list, followed
by Belarus.
Then Moldova Hungary and Albania and then Ukraine.
It seems the closer you are to Russia the worse it gets
On 2026-09-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-17 13:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 04:19, c186282 wrote:
-a-a By all reports, the Brits couldn't shoot their
-a-a way out of a wet paper bag these days. Between
-a-a the welfare state and mass expenditures on
-a-a their beloved 'immigrants' .........
The core is there. But its very small.
BUT who do you think taught Ukraine how to fight?
They fought very well in WWII. The Russians should know it is a very bad
idea to fight them, specially in cities.
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities. Not yet, anyway.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar. Maybe Putin thinks
he can soften up Kyiv and then invade. The plan isn't going too well...
On 2026-09-18 01:27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-09-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-17 13:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/09/2026 04:19, c186282 wrote:
-a-a-a By all reports, the Brits couldn't shoot their
-a-a-a way out of a wet paper bag these days. Between
-a-a-a the welfare state and mass expenditures on
-a-a-a their beloved 'immigrants' .........
The core is there. But its very small.
BUT who do you think taught Ukraine how to fight?
They fought very well in WWII. The Russians should know it is a very bad >>> idea to fight them, specially in cities.
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities.-a Not yet, anyway.
They did at the start. They sent a column in the Kiev direction.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar.-a Maybe Putin thinks
he can soften up Kyiv and then invade.-a The plan isn't going too well...
But the Russians are not fighting them in cities.-a Not yet, anyway.
They did at the start. They sent a column in the Kiev direction.
So far they're content to fire rockets from afar.-a Maybe Putin thinks
he can soften up Kyiv and then invade.-a The plan isn't going too well...
On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 13:35:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The data I found placed Russia at the very bottom of the list, followed
by Belarus.
Then Moldova Hungary and Albania and then Ukraine.
It seems the closer you are to Russia the worse it gets
There are different lists to be sure. Are you debating whether the Ukraine
is dirt poor or merely piss poor? Okay, I'll change my original statement
to 'one of the poorest countries in Europe.'
And then ....
-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for
-a warfare. Everybody else is behind the curve.
On 20/09/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:
And then ....
-a-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for
-a-a warfare. Everybody else is behind the curve.
And Russia is almost managing to keep up.
Their latest jet powered drones - really small cruise missiles - with 400mph+ speeds - can't be shot down with electric propeller driven
drones. Neither can ballistic missiles
What Ukraine should use are small pulse jet powered use it and lose it interceptors...and fast radar guided missiles. But hitting targets at
mach 5+ is not easy
But Ukraine has its own jet drones and ballistic missiles in beta. The winter is going to be absolute hell in both countries.
On 2026-09-20 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:Seems they did a massive attack today.
And then ....
-a-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for warfare. Everybody
-a-a else is behind the curve.
And Russia is almost managing to keep up.
Their latest jet powered drones - really small cruise missiles - with
400mph+ speeds - can't be shot down with electric propeller driven
drones. Neither can ballistic missiles
What Ukraine should use are small pulse jet powered use it and lose it
interceptors...and fast radar guided missiles. But hitting targets at
mach 5+ is not easy
But Ukraine has its own jet drones and ballistic missiles in beta. The
winter is going to be absolute hell in both countries.
On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 14:07:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-09-20 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:Seems they did a massive attack today.
And then ....
-a-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for warfare. Everybody >>>> -a-a else is behind the curve.
And Russia is almost managing to keep up.
Their latest jet powered drones - really small cruise missiles - with
400mph+ speeds - can't be shot down with electric propeller driven
drones. Neither can ballistic missiles
What Ukraine should use are small pulse jet powered use it and lose it
interceptors...and fast radar guided missiles. But hitting targets at
mach 5+ is not easy
But Ukraine has its own jet drones and ballistic missiles in beta. The
winter is going to be absolute hell in both countries.
https://www.rt.com/russia/646001-two-russian-civilians-killed-ukrainian- drone-strike/
The Ukes don't mess around when they interfere with elections. The payback might be a bitch though.
On 2026-09-20 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:
And then ....
-a-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for
-a-a warfare. Everybody else is behind the curve.
And Russia is almost managing to keep up.
Their latest jet powered drones - really small cruise missiles - with
400mph+ speeds - can't be shot down with electric propeller driven
drones. Neither can ballistic missiles
What Ukraine should use are small pulse jet powered use it and lose it
interceptors...and fast radar guided missiles. But hitting targets at
mach 5+ is not easy
But Ukraine has its own jet drones and ballistic missiles in beta. The
winter is going to be absolute hell in both countries.
Seems they did a massive attack today.
The Ukes don't mess around when they interfere with elections. The payback might be a bitch though.
On 2026-09-20 19:40, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 14:07:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-09-20 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:Seems they did a massive attack today.
And then ....
-a-a-a Ukraine has set the 21st century standard for warfare. Everybody >>>>> -a-a-a else is behind the curve.
And Russia is almost managing to keep up.
Their latest jet powered drones - really small cruise missiles - with
400mph+ speeds - can't be shot down with electric propeller driven
drones. Neither can ballistic missiles
What Ukraine should use are small pulse jet powered use it and lose it >>>> interceptors...and fast radar guided missiles. But hitting targets at
mach 5+ is not easy
But Ukraine has its own jet drones and ballistic missiles in beta. The >>>> winter is going to be absolute hell in both countries.
https://www.rt.com/russia/646001-two-russian-civilians-killed-ukrainian-
drone-strike/
The Ukes don't mess around when they interfere with elections. The
payback
might be a bitch though.
The target was the Moscow refinery. It is the way to make the population feel the war without actually killing them.
Russia has used everything it has. It is now losing territory in the Donbas. And in Luhansk.
On 20/09/2026 18:40, rbowman wrote:
The Ukes don't mess around when they interfere with elections. The
payback might be a bitch though.
Russia has used everything it has. It is now losing territory in the
Donbas. And in Luhansk.
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Russia has used everything it has. It is now losing territory in the
Donbas. And in Luhansk.
I'll believe it when I see it.
I have heard that almost incessantly over the last years. All I see is further escalation. I certainly hope not.
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:18:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2026 18:40, rbowman wrote:
The Ukes don't mess around when they interfere with elections. The
payback might be a bitch though.
Russia has used everything it has. It is now losing territory in the
Donbas. And in Luhansk.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-battlefield-territory-losses/ 33693140.html
Need I point out RFE is the state funded US propaganda machine? Other
sites that claim lost territory are also transparent propaganda mills.
On 21/09/2026 20:14, rbowman wrote:
Need I point out RFE is the state funded US propaganda machine? Other
sites that claim lost territory are also transparent propaganda mills.
WTF is RFE?
When you shoot a rat the tail always twitches for a while. Putin's only
hope is to rally his country behind him against NATO. Hence all the provocation.
WTF is RFE?
Just guessing, I'd say Radio Free Europe - although the US's own
propaganda station is the Voice of America.
I haven't listened to short wave radio for a long time,
though - are these stations still around?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 23:13:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
When you shoot a rat the tail always twitches for a while. Putin's only
hope is to rally his country behind him against NATO. Hence all the
provocation.
The election results look at lot better than Merz' little problems. Say
what you will about United Russia at least there are more than two parties which are the same in the long run.
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 23:13:14 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Just guessing, I'd say Radio Free Europe - although the US's own
propaganda station is the Voice of America.
I haven't listened to short wave radio for a long time,
though - are these stations still around?
RFE and VOA are still around and were very pissed when Trump tried to cut their funding. That was one of his more useful attempts but the courts
ruled against it.
I listened to shortwave in the '90s but almost all of the international broadcasters have shut down their transmitters in favor of the internet.
50 KW transmitters aren't cheap.
Radio Moscow became Radio Sputnik which is mostly the Sputnik News Agency now.
https://sputnikglobe.com/
I won't claim rt.com is fair and balanced but it's not as over the top as sputnik. However some of the stories are worth pursuing in other sources.
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