• Linux to be illegal in California?

    From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Tue May 12 17:33:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Is California run by Maga now?
    --
    Terms and conditions apply.

    Steve Hayes
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Tue May 12 08:57:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Not at all.>
    Is California run by Maga now?
    Hardly. This law about OSes getting proof of age is more
    Nanny Law.

    I will illegally use Linux anywhere I happen to be which
    is San Francisco, California. We have some MAGA but mostly
    they are farmers in the Central Valley.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Heller@heller@deepsoft.com to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Tue May 12 18:16:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    At Tue, 12 May 2026 08:57:36 -0700 Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Not at all.>
    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects *vendors*, whatever that means
    when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the California lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.
    Is California run by Maga now?
    Hardly. This law about OSes getting proof of age is more
    Nanny Law.

    I will illegally use Linux anywhere I happen to be which
    is San Francisco, California. We have some MAGA but mostly
    they are farmers in the Central Valley.


    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John McCue@jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux,alt.politics on Tue May 12 20:45:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Trimmed followups to: comp.os.linux.misc

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    ASFAIK it is a false rumor. My guess what you heard was
    Age Validation:

    https://lwn.net/Articles/1062112/

    Is California run by Maga now?

    The age verification law is a response to "protect the children"
    so it is supported by both the GOP and Democrats.

    I heard these laws are being funded by Meta so Meta can hand the cost
    of Age Verification to the OS.
    --
    [t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
    - Paraphrasing Star Wars
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 06:18:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:45:59 -0000 (UTC), John McCue
    <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    Trimmed followups to: comp.os.linux.misc

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    ASFAIK it is a false rumor. My guess what you heard was
    Age Validation:

    https://lwn.net/Articles/1062112/

    Yet the link you posted confirms the rumour.

    Most Linux distributions are stand-alone and can be installed on
    private computers that do not need to be connected with the internet.

    "The law requires operating-system providers to provide a form of age verification that can be queried by any web site, application, or
    online service "that distributes and facilitates the download of
    applications from third-party developers" for computers, mobile
    devices, or other general-purpose computing devices. The law goes into
    effect on January 1, 2027, which leaves less than ten months for
    distributions to determine if the law applies to them and then
    implement a solution if it does."

    That would make most Linux distributions illegal in California.

    Is California run by Maga now?

    The age verification law is a response to "protect the children"
    so it is supported by both the GOP and Democrats.

    I heard these laws are being funded by Meta so Meta can hand the cost
    of Age Verification to the OS.

    And to enable Meta to collect more information on non-users for its
    own use.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 00:24:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/13/26 00:18, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:45:59 -0000 (UTC), John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    Trimmed followups to: comp.os.linux.misc

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    ASFAIK it is a false rumor. My guess what you heard was
    Age Validation:

    https://lwn.net/Articles/1062112/

    Yet the link you posted confirms the rumour.

    Most Linux distributions are stand-alone and can be installed on
    private computers that do not need to be connected with the internet.

    "The law requires operating-system providers to provide a form of age verification that can be queried by any web site, application, or
    online service "that distributes and facilitates the download of
    applications from third-party developers" for computers, mobile
    devices, or other general-purpose computing devices. The law goes into
    effect on January 1, 2027, which leaves less than ten months for distributions to determine if the law applies to them and then
    implement a solution if it does."

    That would make most Linux distributions illegal in California.

    Is California run by Maga now?

    The age verification law is a response to "protect the children"
    so it is supported by both the GOP and Democrats.

    I heard these laws are being funded by Meta so Meta can hand the cost
    of Age Verification to the OS.

    And to enable Meta to collect more information on non-users for its
    own use.

    Yep ... follow the money.

    So, I guess Linux becomes an 'underground' OS.

    "To protect the children" - BULLSHIT.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Wed May 13 04:52:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:16:23 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects *vendors*, whatever that
    means when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the California lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.

    Most 'lawmakers' primary skill set is getting elected. Even leaving out
    the ones that are congenitally stupid few really understand the fields
    they are legislating. What they do understand is the lobbyists whispering
    in their ears and promising to fund their next campaign.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Wed May 13 08:38:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 08:57:36 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Not at all.

    What about this, then?

    "A recently enacted law in California imposes an age-verification
    requirement on operating-system providers beginning next year. The
    language of the Digital Age Assurance Act does not restrict its
    requirements to proprietary or commercial operating systems; projects
    like Debian, FreeBSD, Fedora, and others seem to be on the hook just
    as much as Apple or Microsoft. There is some hope that the law will be
    amended, but there is no guarantee that it will be. This means that
    the developer communities behind Linux distributions are having to
    discuss whether and how to comply with the law with little time and
    even less legal guidance.

    The law requires operating-system providers to provide a form of age verification that can be queried by any web site, application, or
    online service "that distributes and facilitates the download of
    applications from third-party developers" for computers, mobile
    devices, or other general-purpose computing devices. The law goes into
    effect on January 1, 2027, which leaves less than ten months for
    distributions to determine if the law applies to them and then
    implement a solution if it does."

    See here:

    <https://lwn.net/Articles/1062112/>




    Is California run by Maga now?
    Hardly. This law about OSes getting proof of age is more
    Nanny Law.

    I will illegally use Linux anywhere I happen to be which
    is San Francisco, California. We have some MAGA but mostly
    they are farmers in the Central Valley.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Wed May 13 08:40:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:16:23 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller
    <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:

    At Tue, 12 May 2026 08:57:36 -0700 Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:




    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Not at all.>

    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects *vendors*, whatever that means >when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the California >lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.

    Indeed, and perhaps that needs to be pointed out to them before other
    places make similar laws.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Wed May 13 12:44:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 12/05/2026 16:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    Is California run by Maga now?

    The left wing version of it yes. Its called the Librals




    --
    You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
    kind word alone.

    Al Capone



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux.alt.politics on Wed May 13 12:48:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 12/05/2026 19:16, Robert Heller wrote:
    At Tue, 12 May 2026 08:57:36 -0700 Bobbie Sellers<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law
    that would make Linux illegal there?
    Not at all.

    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects*vendors*, whatever that
    means when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the California lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.

    I think the idea is that sweet little children must be indoctrinated in communism and Green cant uninterrupted by contact with the RealWorldrao

    By the time their bigotry is firmly established, its already too late to change them anyway
    --
    The higher up the mountainside
    The greener grows the grass.
    The higher up the monkey climbs
    The more he shows his arse.

    Traditional

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 12:55:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 13/05/2026 05:24, c186282 wrote:
    Yep ... follow the money.

    -a So, I guess Linux becomes an 'underground' OS.

    -a "To protect the children" - BULLSHIT.

    Well 'twas ever thus...
    But it will in any case be impossible to police.

    As I said before, when faced with a US export ban on libcrypt.a on SCO
    Unix, I downloaded the Berkeley source and compiled it. No illegal
    export of the compiled code took place.


    Script kiddies will run VPNs and so on in California and the rest of the
    world will ignore them.
    --
    Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
    people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
    they are poor.

    Peter Thompson

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux,alt.politics on Wed May 13 13:12:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    In article <9v680l5s582c44d6dh642puj067dmtscs4@4ax.com>,
    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    ...
    What about this, then?

    "A recently enacted law in California imposes an age-verification
    requirement on operating-system providers beginning next year. The
    language of the Digital Age Assurance Act does not restrict its
    requirements to proprietary or commercial operating systems; projects

    This has all been hashed out many times in many different forums.

    There really is nothing to fear here.

    It all boils down to one or more of the following interpretations:

    1) It will be no big deal for Linux to comply, should it (eventually)
    prove necessary to do so. They will comply in the same way as the
    other OSes will do.

    2) No OS can actually age-verify the user. All they can do is report
    what the user tells them (*). Doesn't matter if you are MS, Apple,
    Google or Debian.

    3) It (the law) is actually a Good Thing, for some people, while being
    irrelevant to the rest of us. In fact, this law is a thing for
    paranoid parents to control their kids, should they (the parents) be of
    such a mindset. Needless to say, this is irrelevant to me (and, I
    would imagine, to most of you reading this).

    4) The idea of the OS tracking this info (as best as it can) is
    actually not bad (IMHO).

    (*) Given current levels of technology. Someday, I suppose you will have
    your brain hard-wired to the computer and it will then be able to actually determine your real chronological age (**).

    (**) But then of course some people will come and tell us that they
    "identify" as being 25.

    (Posted from: comp.os.linux.misc)
    --
    2026: The hottest summer of your life (so far...)

    2026: (Also) The coolest summer of the rest of your life.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 14:25:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:16:23 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects *vendors*, whatever that
    means when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the
    California lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.

    Most 'lawmakers' primary skill set is getting elected. Even leaving out
    the ones that are congenitally stupid few really understand the fields
    they are legislating. What they do understand is the lobbyists whispering
    in their ears and promising to fund their next campaign.

    Which shows if one goes and reads some of the California age
    verification bill's text (which is shockingly similar to the same bills
    that have popped up in other state houses, feeding the "Meta is behind
    this" belief, given that only a few months prior Zuck was testifying in
    the 'addiction trial' that "the best place to perform age verification
    is in the operating system").

    But, reading the bill text, one sees that whomever wrote the text has a
    very narrow view of "computing" because the way the bill is written, it
    (while never directly stating so) assumes that the only computer that
    anyone owns is a cell phone, and that the only way anyone installs software
    on their computer (that cell phone) is via an "app store" that is
    provided by the maker of the cell phone's OS.

    Now, for some of the 30yo and less population, the only computer they
    may have ever owned is a cell phone, but the field of 'computers' is
    way larger than "cell phones", even if cell phones are the primary
    computing system used by most folks today.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 14:31:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 12/05/2026 19:16, Robert Heller wrote:
    At Tue, 12 May 2026 08:57:36 -0700 Bobbie
    Sellers<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 5/12/26 08:33, Steve Hayes wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law
    that would make Linux illegal there?
    Not at all.

    I believe the law only (theoritaly) affects*vendors*, whatever that
    means when it comes to Linux -- it might be a can of worms that the
    California lawmakers might not really understand they are opening.

    I think the idea is that sweet little children must be indoctrinated in communism and Green cant uninterrupted by contact with the RealWorldrao

    The reality is that the cry "think of the children" (at least in the US political realm) has often been used as the subterfuge to garner
    support from voters for some turd of a legislation agenda by framing it
    as a "it will protect your children" item. Such plays on the
    instinctual "protect the kids" nature of parents (esp. mothers) and manipulates them into supporting something they might otherwise not
    have supported had the actual truth been on display.

    The wise-man's view of this is if some legislation comes packaged as
    "think of the children" then the legislation is not actually intended
    to protect any children and instead is someone one should oppose
    greatly because the actual reality being pushed behind the scenes will
    be some Orwellian nightmare of some form or another.

    But getting past the emotional, instinctual "protect the kids" to have
    the rational brain engage and realize what's up is difficult.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John McCue@jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 17:15:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:45:59 -0000 (UTC), John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    Trimmed followups to: comp.os.linux.misc

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that California has just passed a law that
    would make Linux illegal there?

    ASFAIK it is a false rumor. My guess what you heard was
    Age Validation:

    https://lwn.net/Articles/1062112/

    Yet the link you posted confirms the rumour.

    I guess you can say that, but it is not an outright ban of
    the kernel.
    If the distro add Age Verification then that distro is not
    illegal. I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.


    Most Linux distributions are stand-alone and can be installed on
    private computers that do not need to be connected with the internet.

    "The law requires operating-system providers to provide a form of age verification that can be queried by any web site, application, or
    online service "that distributes and facilitates the download of
    applications from third-party developers" for computers, mobile
    devices, or other general-purpose computing devices. The law goes into
    effect on January 1, 2027, which leaves less than ten months for distributions to determine if the law applies to them and then
    implement a solution if it does."

    That would make most Linux distributions illegal in California.

    Unless they add age verification. The only way age
    verification would really work is if all applications query
    an Age Field. I expect GUI browsers will be change to look
    for an age field. As for other items, I really doubt tin,
    ssh, sftp/ftp and items like that will ever be changed.

    Is California run by Maga now?

    The age verification law is a response to "protect the children"
    so it is supported by both the GOP and Democrats.

    I heard these laws are being funded by Meta so Meta can hand the cost
    of Age Verification to the OS.

    And to enable Meta to collect more information on non-users for its
    own use.

    At this point, anyone on meta, ticktock, twitter and other
    things like that deserve what they get.
    --
    [t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
    - Paraphrasing Star Wars
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 17:49:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:31:46 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:


    But getting past the emotional, instinctual "protect the kids" to have
    the rational brain engage and realize what's up is difficult.

    I'm of the wrong generation. In the '50s us kids did a good job of
    protecting ourselves. Only a few got removed from the gene pool.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 17:54:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:55:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Script kiddies will run VPNs and so on in California and the rest of the world will ignore them.

    I'd read an article that after Britain's aggressive attempt to protect the kids, when queried the kids replied it was no problem getting around the bullshit put in place by clueless adults. I think it's always been that
    way.

    In one of my less honorable moments I shoplifted a copy of Terry
    Southern's 'Candy' because the bookstore wouldn't sell it to minors.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux,alt.politics on Wed May 13 17:57:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

    (*) Given current levels of technology. Someday, I suppose you will
    have your brain hard-wired to the computer and it will then be able to actually determine your real chronological age (**).

    Supposedly some kids have fooled the facial recognition approach by
    borrowing their sister's eyebrow pencil and drawing a mustache.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux,alt.politics on Wed May 13 18:26:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    In article <n6jsc0F2dl2U4@mid.individual.net>,
    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

    (*) Given current levels of technology. Someday, I suppose you will
    have your brain hard-wired to the computer and it will then be able to
    actually determine your real chronological age (**).

    Supposedly some kids have fooled the facial recognition approach by >borrowing their sister's eyebrow pencil and drawing a mustache.

    That's cute. Then there's the other side of it. Someone who actually is
    21 (or whatever) but looks younger. That person will end up suing
    somebody.

    Just out of curiosity, which existing systems actually do this (attempt to age-verify on-the-fly, using "facial recognition") ?

    Anyway, wouldn't it just be easier to substitute a picture of your father?
    --
    The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4 lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
    http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/RoyDeLoon
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 18:55:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:31:46 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:


    But getting past the emotional, instinctual "protect the kids" to have
    the rational brain engage and realize what's up is difficult.

    I'm of the wrong generation. In the '50s us kids did a good job of protecting ourselves. Only a few got removed from the gene pool.

    The problem of "protect the children" has definetly gotten worse as
    time as gone along.

    My dad used to tell stories of his childhood of riding off some miles
    away from home on his bike, with a 22cal rifle, to go shoot tin cans in
    the forest, and no one caring or even blinking an eye.

    By the time I would have been old enough to do the same myself, not
    only would my mother have panicked to no end and forbade such, it was
    also illegal to discharge a firearm in the locality where I grew up, so
    even if mom had not stopped things, I'd very likely have been picked up
    by the police and returned home, and/or have a 'record'.

    Now I read stories today of parents being charged with "child
    endagenerment" by just letting their 12yr walk two blocks to the corner
    7/11 for a slurpee without an adult holding their hand while they do
    so.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ram@ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 19:13:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    My dad used to tell stories of his childhood of riding off some miles
    away from home on his bike, with a 22cal rifle, to go shoot tin cans in
    the forest, and no one caring or even blinking an eye.

    Yeah, there's this one movie where four best friends hike down a
    railroad track for days just to find a dead body, and kids today
    watch it and completely freak out over how they survived without
    smartphones, GPS, or their parents tracking their exact location.

    "Stand by Me" (1986)


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.linux,alt.politics on Wed May 13 22:44:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-13 20:26, Kenny McCormack wrote:
    In article <n6jsc0F2dl2U4@mid.individual.net>,
    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

    (*) Given current levels of technology. Someday, I suppose you will
    have your brain hard-wired to the computer and it will then be able to
    actually determine your real chronological age (**).

    Supposedly some kids have fooled the facial recognition approach by
    borrowing their sister's eyebrow pencil and drawing a mustache.

    That's cute. Then there's the other side of it. Someone who actually is
    21 (or whatever) but looks younger. That person will end up suing
    somebody.

    Just out of curiosity, which existing systems actually do this (attempt to age-verify on-the-fly, using "facial recognition") ?

    Some web sites, I think.


    Anyway, wouldn't it just be easier to substitute a picture of your father?


    It doesn't move on video.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed May 13 22:41:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-13 21:13, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    My dad used to tell stories of his childhood of riding off some miles
    away from home on his bike, with a 22cal rifle, to go shoot tin cans in
    the forest, and no one caring or even blinking an eye.

    Yeah, there's this one movie where four best friends hike down a
    railroad track for days just to find a dead body, and kids today
    watch it and completely freak out over how they survived without
    smartphones, GPS, or their parents tracking their exact location.

    "Stand by Me" (1986)



    Yep.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu May 14 02:01:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 18:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    My dad used to tell stories of his childhood of riding off some miles
    away from home on his bike, with a 22cal rifle, to go shoot tin cans in
    the forest, and no one caring or even blinking an eye.

    And without a helmet... I don't think my first bike had reflectors laced
    into the spokes and on the pedals.

    It wasn't all roses. When I was in grade school a classmate's younger
    brother was hit and killed on his bike. I 7th grade a classmate's older brother who was in 8th grade was killed when a bunch of boys were shooting
    in a gravel pit. The story was he had wandered up to the top of the pit
    and caught a ricochet. Maybe.

    It was a small town where everybody knew each other. What do you say to a
    kid after his brother was killed? We didn't have grief counselors and I
    don't remember the teachers doing much. Shit happens and that's the way it
    is.

    When I was 4 or 5 we had a '51 Chevy. There were two hand prints on the
    steel dashboard where I'd worn the finish down to the primer. I liked to
    scoot forward and lean on the dash to see where we were going. I feel
    sorry for today's kids strapped into an Apollo quality escape module and
    put in the rear sear.

    Most of us survived, maybe with a few broken bones or powder burns from improvised explosives. One kid learned the hard way that stuffing strike anywhere match heads into a CO2 capsule wasn't a good idea.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu May 14 02:05:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 13 May 2026 19:13:37 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    Yeah, there's this one movie where four best friends hike down a
    railroad track for days just to find a dead body, and kids today watch
    it and completely freak out over how they survived without
    smartphones,
    GPS, or their parents tracking their exact location.

    That's what siblings are for. I remember warm summer twilights hearing the plaintive cry of 'David, David' as his big (8th grade) sister walked
    around town trying to find the little bugger. Nobody cared where he was
    until bedtime.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Riches@spamtrap42@jacob21819.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu May 14 03:31:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

    (*) Given current levels of technology. Someday, I suppose you will
    have your brain hard-wired to the computer and it will then be able to
    actually determine your real chronological age (**).

    Supposedly some kids have fooled the facial recognition approach by borrowing their sister's eyebrow pencil and drawing a mustache.

    There is a reference link here:

    https://notthebee.com/article/kids-are-circumventing-age-detection-software-by-drawing-mustaches-on-their-faces

    The reference link is:

    https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/home-news/children-bypassing-age-verification-social-media-b2968803.html
    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu May 14 05:44:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 13 May 2026 17:15:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue
    <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    And to enable Meta to collect more information on non-users for its
    own use.

    At this point, anyone on meta, ticktock, twitter and other
    things like that deserve what they get.

    And those not on those platforms get what they don't deserve.

    According to the description of that legislation, anyway.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIER@sc@fiat-linux.fr to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri May 15 20:29:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't
    be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?
    --
    Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Ames@commodorejohn@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri May 15 13:50:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 15 May 2026 20:29:34 GMT
    Stophane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and every-
    thing, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop me to
    revert any option they put in place?
    It's a 100% guarantee that the people who wrote this into law have no
    idea how to answer that question, and very likely that they have no
    awareness of the question itself.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri May 15 22:54:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-13 19:15, John McCue wrote:
    I guess you can say that, but it is not an outright ban of
    the kernel.
    If the distro add Age Verification then that distro is not
    illegal. I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    For the moment, it is only about having the field in a database, but
    there is nothing yet that uses that field. I mean, nothing that
    populates that field.

    And the distro has to use the home implementation of systemd. I don't
    know how many distros use it: openSUSE doesn't.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri May 15 21:44:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't
    be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?

    Your distro won't.

    But, in typical politician methodology, there's a longer term "game
    plan" here, and this is just the first part of a "boil the frog" [1] game.

    Step one (which is happening now) is to get statutes setup such that
    the OS is supposed to "know your age" and "report that age (or your
    'age range') to app's that ask it for that data". Beyond that, the
    current statutes do little if anything. And, of course, there's not
    (yet) any requirement for the "age" you tell the OS to have any basis
    in reality, so you can be six or sixty and tell your OS you are 102 and
    the OS is just fine telling apps that ask "user is over 18".

    A next likely step along the "boil the frog" path is for someone
    somewhere to finally realize that providing the "ability to ask the OS"
    does no good if the apps are not "required to ask". So the next step
    of legislation could be a requirement that all apps (and written
    broadly enough that "Firefox" on a desktop computer may be able to be considered an "app"). So now "Firefox" on your desktop has to ask your desktop OS what your age range is.

    The next step could then be that "web browsers" must report the "age
    range" signal they are required to ask for to every website that you
    visit.

    Then, once browsers are reporting "age range" to every website, the
    next logical step along the path would be to require all websites to
    honor the "age range" signal and refuse to communicate "harmful
    content" to those who's age signal states they are below 18 years old
    (or 21 or whatever is picked as the "appropriate age").

    And, then once the politicians figure out that presuming "truth in
    telling" of folks being asked "what's your age" by their OS means that
    six year old's can claim to be 102, they will institute some form of government credential authentication of each users age. Cutting off
    one's ability to simply bypass the "age verification" bullshit by
    installing "age-range-d" and telling it you are 102. You'll (or
    rather, age-range-d will) have to instead upload your government ID
    (drivers license or other govt. id) to some govt server in order to
    receive some form of "token" that indicates you are "properly old
    enough". Then your browser will have to deliver that token to every
    website so each website can then make a backend auth call to the govt authenticate service to verify the token's validity before it can
    serve you "harmful content".

    Plus, given how politicians go, "harmful content" will begin as
    something like pornography, but then some kid will become indoctrinated
    in some cult somewhere, and suddenly, to "save the children" extreme
    content (but not porn) will also be "harmful" and be behind the age
    gate. Then, later, some kid will burn their fingers by repeating what
    they saw on a youtube video about repairing a broken lithium ion
    battery and suddenly "think of the children" will age gate "battery
    repair videos".

    Meanwhile, because this government credential that might be used to verify your age is sent to every website you visit, so they can decide what to
    serve or not, is also a unique tracking identifier of you and everywhere
    you go online, it will be scarfed up by the advertisers as their
    ultimate wet-dream tracking identifier, and scarfed up by the government censors as their ultimate wet-dream identifier for deanonymizing
    everyone on the internet so they can censor all those "harmful things"
    people say about stuff all the time online.


    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 00:37:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 15 May 2026 20:29:34 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education.

    There is a real issue with harm from social media, that seems to be
    out of control. And the media companies themselves are very reluctant
    to do anything about it.

    Young people seem particularly vulnerable, particularly being
    influenced into extreme self-harm behaviour. It is simply not
    practical for parents to watch their children all the time, and as for rCLeducationrCY -- peer pressure often tends to be stronger than anything
    their parents can say. Hence the global trend towards age-restriction
    laws.

    But there are loopholes, of course. So in their frenzy to plug these
    loopholes, some lawmakers want to extend the restrictions into other
    areas, like computer operating systems and VPN services.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri May 15 23:56:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/15/26 16:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-05-13 19:15, John McCue wrote:
    I guess you can say that, but it is not an outright ban of
    the kernel.
    If the distro add Age Verification then that distro is not
    illegal.-a I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    For the moment, it is only about having the field in a database, but
    there is nothing yet that uses that field. I mean, nothing that
    populates that field.

    And the distro has to use the home implementation of systemd. I don't
    know how many distros use it: openSUSE doesn't.

    Oh well, if this totalitarian hack-friendly 'feature'
    comes to dominate then I'm sticking with old versions
    of Linux for a long time.

    NONE of this is to "protect children" ya know ...

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:42:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-15 23:44, Rich wrote:
    St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't
    be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?

    Your distro won't.

    But, in typical politician methodology, there's a longer term "game
    plan" here, and this is just the first part of a "boil the frog" [1] game.

    Step one (which is happening now) is to get statutes setup such that
    the OS is supposed to "know your age" and "report that age (or your
    'age range') to app's that ask it for that data". Beyond that, the
    current statutes do little if anything. And, of course, there's not
    (yet) any requirement for the "age" you tell the OS to have any basis
    in reality, so you can be six or sixty and tell your OS you are 102 and
    the OS is just fine telling apps that ask "user is over 18".

    A next likely step along the "boil the frog" path is for someone
    somewhere to finally realize that providing the "ability to ask the OS"
    does no good if the apps are not "required to ask". So the next step
    of legislation could be a requirement that all apps (and written
    broadly enough that "Firefox" on a desktop computer may be able to be considered an "app"). So now "Firefox" on your desktop has to ask your desktop OS what your age range is.

    The next step could then be that "web browsers" must report the "age
    range" signal they are required to ask for to every website that you
    visit.

    Then, once browsers are reporting "age range" to every website, the
    next logical step along the path would be to require all websites to
    honor the "age range" signal and refuse to communicate "harmful
    content" to those who's age signal states they are below 18 years old
    (or 21 or whatever is picked as the "appropriate age").

    And, then once the politicians figure out that presuming "truth in
    telling" of folks being asked "what's your age" by their OS means that
    six year old's can claim to be 102, they will institute some form of government credential authentication of each users age. Cutting off
    one's ability to simply bypass the "age verification" bullshit by
    installing "age-range-d" and telling it you are 102. You'll (or
    rather, age-range-d will) have to instead upload your government ID
    (drivers license or other govt. id) to some govt server in order to
    receive some form of "token" that indicates you are "properly old
    enough". Then your browser will have to deliver that token to every
    website so each website can then make a backend auth call to the govt authenticate service to verify the token's validity before it can
    serve you "harmful content".

    Plus, given how politicians go, "harmful content" will begin as
    something like pornography, but then some kid will become indoctrinated
    in some cult somewhere, and suddenly, to "save the children" extreme
    content (but not porn) will also be "harmful" and be behind the age
    gate. Then, later, some kid will burn their fingers by repeating what
    they saw on a youtube video about repairing a broken lithium ion
    battery and suddenly "think of the children" will age gate "battery
    repair videos".

    Meanwhile, because this government credential that might be used to verify your age is sent to every website you visit, so they can decide what to
    serve or not, is also a unique tracking identifier of you and everywhere
    you go online, it will be scarfed up by the advertisers as their
    ultimate wet-dream tracking identifier, and scarfed up by the government censors as their ultimate wet-dream identifier for deanonymizing
    everyone on the internet so they can censor all those "harmful things"
    people say about stuff all the time online.

    Aye.



    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:44:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't
    be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not. It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers
    what to do next.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:47:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 05:56, c186282 wrote:
    On 5/15/26 16:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-05-13 19:15, John McCue wrote:
    I guess you can say that, but it is not an outright ban of
    the kernel.
    If the distro add Age Verification then that distro is not
    illegal.-a I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    For the moment, it is only about having the field in a database, but
    there is nothing yet that uses that field. I mean, nothing that
    populates that field.

    And the distro has to use the home implementation of systemd. I don't
    know how many distros use it: openSUSE doesn't.

    -a Oh well, if this totalitarian hack-friendly 'feature'
    -a comes to dominate then I'm sticking with old versions
    -a of Linux for a long time.

    -a NONE of this is to "protect children" ya know ...

    If Rich description comes to be, then if you try to use a non complying
    with the law distribution, you may be refused service by web sites.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 03:04:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/16/26 02:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-05-15 23:44, Rich wrote:
    St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>> -a-a be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>> -a-a from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    -a-a verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    -a-a everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>> -a-a me to revert any option they put in place?

    Your distro won't.

    But, in typical politician methodology, there's a longer term "game
    plan" here, and this is just the first part of a "boil the frog" [1]
    game.

    Step one (which is happening now) is to get statutes setup such that
    the OS is supposed to "know your age" and "report that age (or your
    'age range') to app's that ask it for that data".-a Beyond that, the
    current statutes do little if anything.-a And, of course, there's not
    (yet) any requirement for the "age" you tell the OS to have any basis
    in reality, so you can be six or sixty and tell your OS you are 102 and
    the OS is just fine telling apps that ask "user is over 18".

    A next likely step along the "boil the frog" path is for someone
    somewhere to finally realize that providing the "ability to ask the OS"
    does no good if the apps are not "required to ask".-a So the next step
    of legislation could be a requirement that all apps (and written
    broadly enough that "Firefox" on a desktop computer may be able to be
    considered an "app").-a So now "Firefox" on your desktop has to ask your
    desktop OS what your age range is.

    The next step could then be that "web browsers" must report the "age
    range" signal they are required to ask for to every website that you
    visit.

    Then, once browsers are reporting "age range" to every website, the
    next logical step along the path would be to require all websites to
    honor the "age range" signal and refuse to communicate "harmful
    content" to those who's age signal states they are below 18 years old
    (or 21 or whatever is picked as the "appropriate age").

    And, then once the politicians figure out that presuming "truth in
    telling" of folks being asked "what's your age" by their OS means that
    six year old's can claim to be 102, they will institute some form of
    government credential authentication of each users age.-a Cutting off
    one's ability to simply bypass the "age verification" bullshit by
    installing "age-range-d" and telling it you are 102.-a You'll (or
    rather, age-range-d will) have to instead upload your government ID
    (drivers license or other govt.-a id) to some govt server in order to
    receive some form of "token" that indicates you are "properly old
    enough".-a Then your browser will have to deliver that token to every
    website so each website can then make a backend auth call to the govt
    authenticate service to verify the token's validity before it can
    serve you "harmful content".

    Plus, given how politicians go, "harmful content" will begin as
    something like pornography, but then some kid will become indoctrinated
    in some cult somewhere, and suddenly, to "save the children" extreme
    content (but not porn) will also be "harmful" and be behind the age
    gate.-a Then, later, some kid will burn their fingers by repeating what
    they saw on a youtube video about repairing a broken lithium ion
    battery and suddenly "think of the children" will age gate "battery
    repair videos".

    Meanwhile, because this government credential that might be used to
    verify
    your age is sent to every website you visit, so they can decide what to
    serve or not, is also a unique tracking identifier of you and everywhere
    you go online, it will be scarfed up by the advertisers as their
    ultimate wet-dream tracking identifier, and scarfed up by the government
    censors as their ultimate wet-dream identifier for deanonymizing
    everyone on the internet so they can censor all those "harmful things"
    people say about stuff all the time online.

    Aye.

    Look, it's more than "govt censors" or phony "child
    protection" - these schemes want you to provide
    DETAILED personal/ID info.

    NO site - Goog or Amazon or Sony or Pentagon - have
    been beyond being hacked to death by Chinese/Russians.
    The more of your important info out there, the more
    the bad guys can steal/exploit.

    Shit, recently was on Amazon, tried to re-order
    "Robitussin" ... it suddenly was demanding lots
    of ID info including DL numbers.

    NO !!! Not a fuckin' penny or byte of DL/SS/Etc
    ID for these asshole suck-ups. "Child protection"
    my ass ! What about ME Protection ???

    And the kiddies, even in the 60s we could always
    get ANYTHING we wanted easily. Nothing's changed
    and WON'T. Prohibitionism is a proven FAIL, just
    ENCOURAGES people to get all funky.

    But pols have to pretend they're "doing something" ...

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:11:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:47:04 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    If Rich description comes to be, then if you try to use a non
    complying with the law distribution, you may be refused service by
    web sites.

    How would they tell?

    There is a right way to do this -- provide reliable assurances of age
    while preserving user privacy: using something called rCLzero-knowledge proofsrCY. The powers that be and their expert advisors know about this,
    but the technique is still considered rCLexperimentalrCY.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:13:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:44:57 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if
    we agree with it or not.

    If it can be shown to be impossible to comply with the law as it
    stands in any reasonable fashion, I think that, too, can be considered
    as an excuse for non-compliance.

    Or it better be. Because I canrCOt think of anything better to trigger a massive civil-disobedience campaign that will turn enforcement
    attempts into a complete farce.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:15:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:42:02 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

    We open-source users observe how vendors like Microsoft, Adobe etc
    pile enshitification upon enshittification onto users of their
    software products, and those users just put up with it. They grumble a
    bit, make noises about switching, but then they seem to get used to it eventually, and just continue using it.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIER@sc@fiat-linux.fr to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 08:56:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Le 15-05-2026, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a |-crit-a:

    And, then once the politicians figure out that presuming "truth in
    telling" of folks being asked "what's your age" by their OS means that
    six year old's can claim to be 102, they will institute some form of government credential authentication of each users age. Cutting off
    one's ability to simply bypass the "age verification" bullshit by
    installing "age-range-d" and telling it you are 102. You'll (or
    rather, age-range-d will) have to instead upload your government ID
    (drivers license or other govt. id) to some govt server in order to
    receive some form of "token" that indicates you are "properly old
    enough". Then your browser will have to deliver that token to every
    website so each website can then make a backend auth call to the govt authenticate service to verify the token's validity before it can
    serve you "harmful content".

    The subject here is completely different and unrelated to the browser or systemd. Actually, some website require age verification in some
    countries. So the system must provide a way to comply. By system, I'm
    vague because it can be the OS, the browser, the hardware, whatever you
    want.

    The most obvious one being asking people if they are older than 18,
    which as you say, is almost stupid. I'm saying almost because sometimes
    people can be redirected to a pornsite without advertising, and if they
    don't want to, they can avoid that. Now, some other ways are starting to
    appear like face recognition. You can have, like you say, government
    website for accessing a website.

    But the website must compel to the law. Now, you can chose to compel to
    the law when accessing it, you can compel to the law by ignoring the
    website or you can ignore the law and find a way to circumvent it. The
    most obvious one being the VPN.

    Applying the same thing for accessing a computer is way more difficult.
    Not in a Microsoft or Apple world were they control what's on it. But in
    the FOSS world were everything can be changed by the end user.
    --
    Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIER@sc@fiat-linux.fr to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 09:16:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 15 May 2026 20:29:34 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education.

    There is a real issue with harm from social media, that seems to be
    out of control.

    I'm not denying the issue with social media. I'm saying that, it's an educational issue, not a technical one. The parents let their children
    spending their all time unsupervised on social media.

    And the media companies themselves are very reluctant
    to do anything about it.

    Of course, they want to win more money. And Musk has a political agenda
    to accomplish.

    Young people seem particularly vulnerable, particularly being
    influenced into extreme self-harm behaviour. It is simply not
    practical for parents to watch their children all the time, and as for rCLeducationrCY -- peer pressure often tends to be stronger than anything their parents can say. Hence the global trend towards age-restriction
    laws.

    Of course, the parents can't educate their children, they can't limit
    the way their children are using their smartphones so the government has
    to find a way to stop it. We can say children shouldn't smoke and
    children shouldn't drink alcohol, but we can't say children shouldn't
    access social media.
    --
    Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 11:24:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 10:11, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:47:04 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    If Rich description comes to be, then if you try to use a non
    complying with the law distribution, you may be refused service by
    web sites.

    How would they tell?

    Easy. The site ask the browser to ask the system for the age of the
    user, or "is the user older than 18?". The browser replies with an
    error, system does not answer or errors out. Site pops a message about
    system not compliant and aborts login procedure.


    There is a right way to do this -- provide reliable assurances of age
    while preserving user privacy: using something called rCLzero-knowledge proofsrCY. The powers that be and their expert advisors know about this,
    but the technique is still considered rCLexperimentalrCY.

    Yes, but in California (and maybe more states) the OS must answer with
    the age. Thus Linux distributions have to solve this. Does not matter if
    it is not the proper way.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIER@sc@fiat-linux.fr to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 09:29:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't
    be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.
    --
    Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 11:41:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 11:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    You still have to abide by a law, the French law in your case. And the
    Linux distribution you have must include whatever is needed to abide by
    all the laws in the world, including the Californian law (and the French
    law). The system has to know the country of the user, and then, select
    the bunch of laws for that country.


    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers
    what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nuno Silva@nunojsilva@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 10:59:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    On 15 May 2026 20:29:34 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education.

    There is a real issue with harm from social media, that seems to be
    out of control. And the media companies themselves are very reluctant
    to do anything about it.

    Young people seem particularly vulnerable, particularly being
    influenced into extreme self-harm behaviour. It is simply not
    practical for parents to watch their children all the time, and as for rCLeducationrCY -- peer pressure often tends to be stronger than anything their parents can say. Hence the global trend towards age-restriction
    laws.

    But there are loopholes, of course. So in their frenzy to plug these loopholes, some lawmakers want to extend the restrictions into other
    areas, like computer operating systems and VPN services.

    The issue is with algorithmic social media in general and isn't limited
    to people under a certain age, in fact it has had visible effect in
    politics over the globe, affecting people of voting age.

    So maybe it'd be better if, instead of coming up with jokes that do
    their best to misunderstand the field of computing machinery and of
    operating systems, and will only add to what seemed to be unrealistic caricatures of politicians, they try to address the problem at hand: the
    need to grow balls, so that they can deal with e.g. Meta directly.
    --
    Nuno Silva
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Borax Man@boraxman@geidiprime.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 12:32:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers
    what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives
    always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Borax Man@boraxman@geidiprime.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 12:35:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 15 May 2026 20:29:34 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education.

    There is a real issue with harm from social media, that seems to be
    out of control.

    I'm not denying the issue with social media. I'm saying that, it's an educational issue, not a technical one. The parents let their children spending their all time unsupervised on social media.

    And the media companies themselves are very reluctant
    to do anything about it.

    Of course, they want to win more money. And Musk has a political agenda
    to accomplish.

    Young people seem particularly vulnerable, particularly being
    influenced into extreme self-harm behaviour. It is simply not
    practical for parents to watch their children all the time, and as for
    rCLeducationrCY -- peer pressure often tends to be stronger than anything
    their parents can say. Hence the global trend towards age-restriction
    laws.

    Of course, the parents can't educate their children, they can't limit
    the way their children are using their smartphones so the government has
    to find a way to stop it. We can say children shouldn't smoke and
    children shouldn't drink alcohol, but we can't say children shouldn't
    access social media.


    Parents do have quite a bit of control, if they are willing to enforce
    it, and...parent.

    I have two children, at the age where they are now online, and they
    don't have social media accounts. They understand the risks because we
    drummed it into them from very early on.

    The Australian social media ban is specifically targeted at my childrens
    age demographic but I consider it nevertheless an over-reach. *I* can
    ban them from Social Media myself.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 09:49:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 5/16/26 05:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn,
    alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    No Californians do not think that the entire world is theirs. The Legislature though is not technically oriented and the big actors on
    the Internet Stage do not want to assume responsibility for their content.


    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.

    We in California who use Open Source and happen to have
    gotten here before all the places were taken are a bit snotty about
    our good luck. I grew up in a different California and Nevada than
    are currently available but still I found a place to be here in
    San Francisco for the last 59 years so I live in a place where the
    skies may be cloudy and it can rain a lot but the wind off the
    Pacific blows the clouds away and dries the streets. Unless it
    is a wind from the land which is even dryer usually. So dry that
    it starts fires in the tatty dried grass covering the steep sides
    of various mini-mountain ranges to the North, East and South.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 20:15:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    Yes, but in California (and maybe more states) the OS must answer with
    the age. Thus Linux distributions have to solve this. Does not matter if
    it is not the proper way.

    Are we talking about the California Age Assuration Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Digital_Age_Assurance_Act)?

    Under this act, the OS must just provide an age bracket of the user.

    Yes, in the absense of an "unknown" value this is probably equally
    bad.

    Gr|+|fe
    Marc
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 22:05:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 20:15, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    Yes, but in California (and maybe more states) the OS must answer with
    the age. Thus Linux distributions have to solve this. Does not matter if
    it is not the proper way.

    Are we talking about the California Age Assuration Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Digital_Age_Assurance_Act)?

    Under this act, the OS must just provide an age bracket of the user.

    Sure, fine, it doesn't matter much if it is the actual age or a bracket. Whatever are the details, the OSes will have to provide the right answer
    for each country.


    Yes, in the absense of an "unknown" value this is probably equally
    bad.

    Gr|+|fe
    Marc
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 22:14:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 14:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I
    didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we
    agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws
    in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn,
    alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    That's an USAian trait, actually. They even name their country America forgetting the continent, and that Mexicans and Argentinians and
    Brazilian can say "We are Americans".


    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 20:40:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-05-16 14:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I >>>>> didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>>>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>>>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we >>>> agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws >>>> in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, >>> alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    That's an USAian trait, actually. They even name their country America forgetting the continent, and that Mexicans and Argentinians and
    Brazilian can say "We are Americans".

    While the US is the poster child for "you must follow *our* laws,
    despite the fact you live in another country half a world away" most of
    the other major countries also fall afoul for the same mindset to
    varying degrees when it comes to "the internet" and making laws
    specific for themselves that "others, half a world away" are expected
    to abide by.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 23:09:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16 22:40, Rich wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-05-16 14:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I >>>>>> didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and >>>>>> everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we >>>>> agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm >>>> neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides >>>> a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have >>>> no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws >>>>> in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>>>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law >>>> to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, >>>> alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    That's an USAian trait, actually. They even name their country America
    forgetting the continent, and that Mexicans and Argentinians and
    Brazilian can say "We are Americans".

    While the US is the poster child for "you must follow *our* laws,
    despite the fact you live in another country half a world away" most of
    the other major countries also fall afoul for the same mindset to
    varying degrees when it comes to "the internet" and making laws
    specific for themselves that "others, half a world away" are expected
    to abide by.


    Yes, quite so.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 21:16:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 16 May 2026 09:29:55 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    https://therecord.media/4chan-fined-ofcom-uk-online-safety-act

    I don't know what the current status is but Ofcom keeps upping the fine
    while 4chan tells them to piss off.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 21:27:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 12:32:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    I was amused some years ago when I ordered some spare magazines from a California company. Magazines that hold more than 10 rounds are illegal in California and I'd ordered a mix. The 10 round mags were shipped from the company's California warehouse, the others from Las Vegas.

    At least one of my bikes is a 49 state model, illegal in CA. The same
    bike, a DR650, hasn't been sold in Europe since the early 2000s. I think Suzuki does make a version with additional plumbing that can be sold in CA
    but meeting European emission requirements was too heavy a lift.

    I believe is states rights. CA can do whatever they want to do but they
    can FOAD if they want to impose their idiocy elsewhere.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 21:32:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 09:49:32 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

    I grew up in a different California and Nevada than
    are currently available but still I found a place to be here in San
    Francisco for the last 59 years so I live in a place where the skies may
    be cloudy and it can rain a lot but the wind off the Pacific blows the
    clouds away and dries the streets. U

    The first time I was in CA was for a Semicon show in the '80s. I realized
    SF could be as miserable as coastal Maine but they had a much better PR
    firm promoting 'wonderful sweater weather'. I spent enough time at the
    show to write it off as a business expense and headed east over Altamont
    Pass. Most of the rest of the state was pleasant, particularly Joshua
    Tree.

    The reference was to Seattle but someone described it like being married
    to a beautiful woman who was sick all the time.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Blake@rogblake@iname.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 22:21:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    You still have to abide by a law, the French law in your case. And the
    Linux distribution you have must include whatever is needed to abide by
    all the laws in the world, including the Californian law (and the French law). The system has to know the country of the user, and then, select
    the bunch of laws for that country.

    Actually you don't need to abide. Linux open source it would certainly
    be possible to distribute forks with that garbage patched out. What
    is needed is massive disobedience to the point where for the
    enforcers it is like playing whack-a-mole.
    --
    Roger Blake
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Blake@rogblake@iname.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 22:24:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    Easy. The site ask the browser to ask the system for the age of the
    user, or "is the user older than 18?". The browser replies with an
    error, system does not answer or errors out. Site pops a message about system not compliant and aborts login procedure.

    Or, the open-source operating system has been modified to return
    a random age between 18 and 100 to the browser.
    --
    Roger Blake
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 16:21:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 5/16/26 15:24, Roger Blake wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    Easy. The site ask the browser to ask the system for the age of the
    user, or "is the user older than 18?". The browser replies with an
    error, system does not answer or errors out. Site pops a message about
    system not compliant and aborts login procedure.

    Or, the open-source operating system has been modified to return
    a random age between 18 and 100 to the browser.


    Well I think that PCLinuxOS may not be licensed to use in places
    where the relevant law is in effect. I will continue with PCLinusOS
    operating an unlicensed version. I do not think that Usenet will be
    troubled by age requirements nor will e-mailing be bothered. The
    Social Media i use is Usenet where a variety of viewpoints are taken
    as a matter of course and PCLinuxOS Forum where due to my
    very limited background in CS i post very little only about what
    I know usually.

    bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.04- Linux 6.12.87 pclos1- KDE
    Plasma 6.6.5

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 23:55:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 16 May 2026 08:56:04 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Applying the same thing for accessing a computer is way more
    difficult.

    It can be done. Most of us already perform security-sensitive
    operations on the Internet on a daily basis, without thinking too hard
    about it: the same sorts of mechanisms can be adapted to provide the
    necessary age verification.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 23:38:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/16/26 04:11, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:47:04 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    If Rich description comes to be, then if you try to use a non
    complying with the law distribution, you may be refused service by
    web sites.

    How would they tell?

    There is a right way to do this -- provide reliable assurances of age
    while preserving user privacy: using something called rCLzero-knowledge proofsrCY. The powers that be and their expert advisors know about this,
    but the technique is still considered rCLexperimentalrCY.

    Sorry ... but SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, you're gonna
    have to provide Too Much Legal Documentation.
    The places processing that WILL be hacked - big
    juicy targets, who could resist ?

    The alt is to eliminate all sites, or items, that
    could possibly offend the 'protection' puritans.

    Of course 'intolerable political positions' WILL
    offend such puritans.

    See how it works ?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat May 16 23:42:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/16/26 04:13, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 08:44:57 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if
    we agree with it or not.

    If it can be shown to be impossible to comply with the law as it
    stands in any reasonable fashion, I think that, too, can be considered
    as an excuse for non-compliance.

    For big-money sites ... probably just cheaper to
    ignore such laws/regs, legally stall for decades,
    maybe pay a few fines.

    Or it better be. Because I canrCOt think of anything better to trigger a massive civil-disobedience campaign that will turn enforcement
    attempts into a complete farce.

    Censorship/prohibitionism ALWAYS turns into a farce.

    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    and weed in the 60s ??? :-)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 06:07:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe
    Did playboy sell booze?
    --
    rCLThere are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isnrCOt true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.rCY

    rCoSoren Kierkegaard

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 02:17:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/17/26 01:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a-a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe

    Did playboy sell booze?

    Nah ... you had to get that from
    another guy !

    Thing is, ALWAYS is, that there's always
    "another guy". Prohibitionism NEVER works.
    Just drives the prohibited whatever
    underground - and funds people that maybe
    we don't want funded.

    But, time-told, the prohibitionist high-holy
    knee-jerk doesn't, won't, SEE that. When
    it's Human Nature -vs- The System ... Human
    Nature ALWAYS wins.

    Ah ... yesterday ... the mayor of Los Angeles
    launched a MANY-megabuck plea to buy NEW TEETH
    for street meth addicts. Oh WOW !!!

    Street/bathtub meth is loaded with very evil
    chemicals that ROT the teeth and gums (and
    a lot more you don't see). Get 'em off the
    meth - NO !!! That'd violate SOME principle !

    The UK sometimes seems insane ... UNTIL you
    look at the US west coast :-)

    It's somewhere out in Narnia or Mordor ...

    The Linux angle ... the "child protection"
    knee-jerk is going to make children and
    everyone else LESS safe overall.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 10:28:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 17/05/2026 07:17, c186282 wrote:
    On 5/17/26 01:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a-a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe

    Did playboy sell booze?

    -a Nah ... you had to get that from
    -a another guy !
    whoosh...
    --
    Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
    name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
    or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
    the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
    face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

    Ayn Rand.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIER@sc@fiat-linux.fr to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 10:59:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 16 May 2026 08:56:04 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Applying the same thing for accessing a computer is way more
    difficult.

    It can be done.

    Way more difficult is not the same thing as can't be done. Now, it's
    easy on a Microsoft or Apple computer with closed source impossible to
    modify. With an open source OS which can be modified at will by the end
    user, it's way more difficult. When I install Linux on someone else's
    computer, I, almost always, need to deactivate the secure boot in the
    UEFI. Then, I can do what I want.

    Most of us already perform security-sensitive operations on the
    Internet on a daily basis, without thinking too hard about it: the
    same sorts of mechanisms can be adapted to provide the necessary age verification.

    You have to do better than that to explain how it can be done to prevent
    me to access my personal computer without age verification with Linux
    installed on it. With Windows, you need to access Microsoft servers from
    time to time to let them verify your licence. There is no such thing
    with Linux. So I don't care about your using Internet connexion without
    giving a second thought. If I don't have access to Internet, I can
    access my computer as long as I want without restriction. And if you
    want to put some restriction on my computer to force me accessing
    Internet to be able to use it, I still want to know how you'll mange to
    stop me to reverse it. And if my connection to Internet force me to
    validate my age before using my computer, I'd like to know how you can
    stop me reversing it.
    --
    Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 14:43:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17 00:21, Roger Blake wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    You still have to abide by a law, the French law in your case. And the
    Linux distribution you have must include whatever is needed to abide by
    all the laws in the world, including the Californian law (and the French
    law). The system has to know the country of the user, and then, select
    the bunch of laws for that country.

    Actually you don't need to abide. Linux open source it would certainly
    be possible to distribute forks with that garbage patched out. What
    is needed is massive disobedience to the point where for the
    enforcers it is like playing whack-a-mole.


    That doesn't work if sites query for age and get no reply.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Blake@rogblake@iname.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 13:08:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    That doesn't work if sites query for age and get no reply.

    It works if the operating system is patched to provide a phony age
    in response to such queries.
    --
    Roger Blake
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 15:11:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    Most of us already perform security-sensitive operations on the
    Internet on a daily basis, without thinking too hard about it: the
    same sorts of mechanisms can be adapted to provide the necessary age
    verification.

    You have to do better than that to explain how it can be done to prevent
    me to access my personal computer without age verification with Linux installed on it.

    You may have overlooked the trolls "on the internet" part of his
    statement. Catching that meaning is critical to understand the point
    he's making (surprisingly, without being trollish this time).

    *They* simply won't be able to prevent you accessing your personal
    computer that is running linux, for the very reason you later state,
    you can "undo" anything that might have been "done" to your Linux
    installation to remove the age restrictions.

    Therefore, barring some *other* law requiring only "Android/Apple
    style" computers be in use by *everyone* there's nothing that can
    prevent you from accessing your personal computer, so long as you
    remain an isolated (i.e., not networked) CPU of one.

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever
    reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used
    for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet)
    [1]. You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to
    authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be
    served content.

    The result could then be that all "internet properties" that might
    return anything that might be "age-inapproriate" will be required to
    follow this authenticator.

    So if your local Linux PC has not "authenticated" you with the govt.
    system, then Google's search page would be required to returns a "not authorized" page instead of allowing you to perform a search, because *sometimes* search results that are not "age appropriate" are returned.
    Bing would similarilly be required to do so as well, plus duck duck go,
    plus all the other search engines. Now, you can no longer search the
    internet for anything unless you first "authenticate your age" via the
    govt "Age-ta" system.

    Similarially, because gmail and hotmail and outlook.com and the other
    "email providers" *could* be used by pedo's to groom under age users,
    the politicials will force them to also "authenticate your age". So
    now you get a "not authorized" page instead of your email until your
    Linux machine bends the knee to the govt censors.

    And if the politicians extend things enough, they *could* require that
    all websites use the govt age authenticator. And if that happens,
    suddenly you find yourself cut off from the internet. No websites, no
    email, potentially no Usenet if Usenet providers end up ensnared in the
    "all websites" sweep, until your Linux PC authenticates via the govt.
    auth. system.

    I.e., they (politicians) flip the internet from "free to access for
    anyone" to "everyone must be 'logged in' before any access is allowed".

    The plumbing already exists. That's how you "log in" to your bank, or
    your gmail account now. If they extend "must log in" to *everything*
    then your choices as a hold out Linux user modifying your local OS to
    remove age verification have two choices. Return to the 1980's state
    of computing (no internet, at best sneaker-net for file sharing via
    in-person trading of USB thumb drives) or bend the knee to the censors,
    add back the age verification authenticator to your Linux system, and
    be able to access the post 1990's computing world.

    That's how they would do it. They don't prevent you access to your
    local computer. They shut you off from "the world" and isolate you
    until you give up and bend the knee.

    And with the average joe's perception of "the internet" being the
    giants (google, facebook, amazon) and little to no recognition of the
    larger "internet" it only takes the "giants" complying with the govt.
    mandates for a tipping point to be reached such that the rest of the
    internet simply complies because doing so is easier (and more
    profitable) than resisting.



    [1] If you are at all familiar with it, something like Okta, but
    instead this one would be (made up name) "Age-ta" instead (https://www.okta.com/)

    [2] Note than in standard politician method, the definition of "age-inappropriate" will begin narrow such that it looks like they are targeting porn, but once in place the definition will begin expanding
    to target anything the political class does not like that occurs after
    the laws are all in place.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 15:12:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe
    Did playboy sell booze?

    The magazine was likely full of advertisements for booze. Whether one considers that to be "selling booze" likely depends upon the breadth of
    one's definition of "selling"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 15:25:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
    On 5/17/26 01:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a-a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe

    Did playboy sell booze?

    Nah ... you had to get that from
    another guy !

    Thing is, ALWAYS is, that there's always
    "another guy". Prohibitionism NEVER works.
    Just drives the prohibited whatever
    underground - and funds people that maybe
    we don't want funded.

    It's not that it "never" works. It works very well from the political
    class view. It also *never* works perfectly, which I suspect is the
    point you are making.

    Prohibition works *by* driving whatever is prohibited underground.
    Which results in far fewer being able to obtain it. Which the
    politician who was pushing prohibit Y takes up and proclaims as a win
    (no more "bad stuff Y" being sold at corner markets....). They ignore
    than for those who know how, they can still get bad stuff Y via the underground, the corner stores were the real targets anyway, as that
    reduced the sales of Y by a huge amount.

    And anyone of the normal "john q public" who generally attempts to
    avoid doing illegal things, even if they were buying Y at the corner
    market, they will instead go cold-turkey rather than risk going via the underground and taking a risk of being caught and have a criminal
    record. [1]

    And for most folks, if Y isn't on the sheles of the corner store (nor available via Amazon/etc.) then Y no longer exists in the world to be purchased. And that's a "success" from the politician's viewpoint.
    Even if those who have "connections" can still get it via the
    underground.

    [1] I've seen this one directly myself. A friend is always lamenting
    how "movie A" or "old 80's/90's tv show B" is not yet available via
    "favorite streaming service of the day". I continually point out that
    both A and B are readially available via a simple download off the
    internet, and without commercials, or other crap the streaming services
    add. His response is always the same: "I'm not going to risk being a
    criminal to download it...".

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 16:44:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:11:25 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever
    reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used
    for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet) [1].
    You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US
    residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be
    served content.

    The camel's nose is in the tent with the Social Security Administration.
    There are two schemes for verification; pick one. I believe both require a
    DL or equivalent and a facial photo. Fortunately I don't have to log into their site.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 16:52:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:25:33 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    Prohibition works *by* driving whatever is prohibited underground. Which results in far fewer being able to obtain it. Which the politician who
    was pushing prohibit Y takes up and proclaims as a win (no more "bad
    stuff Y" being sold at corner markets....). They ignore than for those
    who know how, they can still get bad stuff Y via the underground, the
    corner stores were the real targets anyway, as that reduced the sales of
    Y by a huge amount.

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the
    state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And, yes, it seems there is a dispensary on every corner. I'm not sure how they all survive economically. There are a lot more of them than liquor stores.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 16:53:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 10:28:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 17/05/2026 07:17, c186282 wrote:
    On 5/17/26 01:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a-a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe

    Did playboy sell booze?

    -a Nah ... you had to get that from another guy !
    whoosh...

    What? You want correct plurals and Oxford commas?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 19:59:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17 17:11, Rich wrote:
    St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    Most of us already perform security-sensitive operations on the
    Internet on a daily basis, without thinking too hard about it: the
    same sorts of mechanisms can be adapted to provide the necessary age
    verification.

    You have to do better than that to explain how it can be done to prevent
    me to access my personal computer without age verification with Linux
    installed on it.

    You may have overlooked the trolls "on the internet" part of his
    statement. Catching that meaning is critical to understand the point
    he's making (surprisingly, without being trollish this time).

    *They* simply won't be able to prevent you accessing your personal
    computer that is running linux, for the very reason you later state,
    you can "undo" anything that might have been "done" to your Linux installation to remove the age restrictions.

    Therefore, barring some *other* law requiring only "Android/Apple
    style" computers be in use by *everyone* there's nothing that can
    prevent you from accessing your personal computer, so long as you
    remain an isolated (i.e., not networked) CPU of one.

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever
    reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used
    for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet)
    [1]. You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be
    served content.

    The result could then be that all "internet properties" that might
    return anything that might be "age-inapproriate" will be required to
    follow this authenticator.

    So if your local Linux PC has not "authenticated" you with the govt.
    system, then Google's search page would be required to returns a "not authorized" page instead of allowing you to perform a search, because *sometimes* search results that are not "age appropriate" are returned.
    Bing would similarilly be required to do so as well, plus duck duck go,
    plus all the other search engines. Now, you can no longer search the internet for anything unless you first "authenticate your age" via the
    govt "Age-ta" system.

    Similarially, because gmail and hotmail and outlook.com and the other
    "email providers" *could* be used by pedo's to groom under age users,
    the politicials will force them to also "authenticate your age". So
    now you get a "not authorized" page instead of your email until your
    Linux machine bends the knee to the govt censors.

    And if the politicians extend things enough, they *could* require that
    all websites use the govt age authenticator. And if that happens,
    suddenly you find yourself cut off from the internet. No websites, no
    email, potentially no Usenet if Usenet providers end up ensnared in the
    "all websites" sweep, until your Linux PC authenticates via the govt.
    auth. system.

    I.e., they (politicians) flip the internet from "free to access for
    anyone" to "everyone must be 'logged in' before any access is allowed".

    The plumbing already exists. That's how you "log in" to your bank, or
    your gmail account now. If they extend "must log in" to *everything*
    then your choices as a hold out Linux user modifying your local OS to
    remove age verification have two choices. Return to the 1980's state
    of computing (no internet, at best sneaker-net for file sharing via
    in-person trading of USB thumb drives) or bend the knee to the censors,
    add back the age verification authenticator to your Linux system, and
    be able to access the post 1990's computing world.

    That's how they would do it. They don't prevent you access to your
    local computer. They shut you off from "the world" and isolate you
    until you give up and bend the knee.

    And with the average joe's perception of "the internet" being the
    giants (google, facebook, amazon) and little to no recognition of the
    larger "internet" it only takes the "giants" complying with the govt. mandates for a tipping point to be reached such that the rest of the
    internet simply complies because doing so is easier (and more
    profitable) than resisting.



    [1] If you are at all familiar with it, something like Okta, but
    instead this one would be (made up name) "Age-ta" instead (https://www.okta.com/)

    [2] Note than in standard politician method, the definition of "age-inappropriate" will begin narrow such that it looks like they are targeting porn, but once in place the definition will begin expanding
    to target anything the political class does not like that occurs after
    the laws are all in place.

    It is not only porn. It is accessing a Linux site like, for instance, opensuse.org to contribute (or to post a question in the forum. As an
    example, there is an ongoing discussion at opensuse about legal terms.
    This was posted two days ago:

    +++------------------------------------------ Terms of Site Update
    Hi folks -

    In concert with SUSE Legal, we've agreed to revise the recently updated
    Terms of Site. The original text of:

    "By using this site, you represent that you are at least 16 years of age
    or the age of majority in your jurisdiction."

    has been changed to:

    "By creating an openSUSE account, you represent that you are at least 16
    years of age or the age of digital consent in your jurisdiction. If you
    are under 16 years of age (or below the applicable age of digital
    consent in your jurisdiction), you may only create an account with the verifiable consent of your parent or legal guardian. No age requirement applies to general browsing or passive access to publicly available
    content on this site."

    We recognize the work isn't done. We don't want to ban contributors
    under the age of 16 either but we don't have a system in place to handle "verifiable consent" yet. That _is_ a legal requirement in the US and
    EU. We're still investigating how to do that in a way that is both
    legally sufficient and acceptable to the community. That's an ongoing conversation with SUSE Legal and I'll bring an update when I have
    something to share.

    Thanks,

    -Jeff
    ------------------------------------------++-
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 18:19:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:25:33 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    Prohibition works *by* driving whatever is prohibited underground. Which
    results in far fewer being able to obtain it. Which the politician who
    was pushing prohibit Y takes up and proclaims as a win (no more "bad
    stuff Y" being sold at corner markets....). They ignore than for those
    who know how, they can still get bad stuff Y via the underground, the
    corner stores were the real targets anyway, as that reduced the sales of
    Y by a huge amount.

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And, yes, it seems there is a dispensary on every corner. I'm not sure how they all survive economically. There are a lot more of them than liquor stores.

    They *all* likely won't survive long term. Eventually the monthly
    bills (power/water/rent/insurance/salary) will outstrip the income and
    some number of them will drop off as the weakest of the set all file
    for bankruptcy.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 21:02:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 17/05/2026 17:53, rbowman wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 10:28:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 17/05/2026 07:17, c186282 wrote:
    On 5/17/26 01:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
    Hey, think we couldn't get Playboy's booze
    -a-a and weed in the 60s ???-a EfOe

    Did playboy sell booze?

    -a Nah ... you had to get that from another guy !
    whoosh...

    What? You want correct plurals and Oxford commas?
    Indeed, and no grocers apostrophes
    --
    "It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 22:42:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 17 May 2026 10:59:30 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Le 16-05-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:

    On 16 May 2026 08:56:04 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Applying the same thing for accessing a computer is way more
    difficult.

    It can be done. Most of us already perform security-sensitive
    operations on the Internet on a daily basis, without thinking too
    hard about it: the same sorts of mechanisms can be adapted to
    provide the necessary age verification.

    Way more difficult is not the same thing as can't be done. Now, it's
    easy on a Microsoft or Apple computer with closed source impossible
    to modify.

    ItrCOs entirely feasible. We do those same security-sensitive operations
    on open-source machines -- in fact, the only implementations of those
    very same security protocols that are in common use, are open source.
    So it has nothing to do with being able to modify the source or not.

    You have to do better than that to explain how it can be done to
    prevent me to access my personal computer without age verification
    with Linux installed on it.

    ItrCOs not about preventing access to your computer, itrCOs about
    age-gating access to online services, remember.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Sun May 17 22:49:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 13:08:20 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

    It works if the operating system is patched to provide a phony age
    in response to such queries.

    This is why no workable system would rely on a response from the other
    end that comes without attestation.

    Think of how you trust that the website yourrCOre connecting to to do
    your banking or online shopping is really who they say they are: the
    same sort of mechanism can work in both directions.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Blake@rogblake@iname.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 12:34:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    This is why no workable system would rely on a response from the other
    end that comes without attestation.

    Of course "attestation" is the end game that the people pushing
    are really after. The time to push back is now, before "attestation"
    to simply make use of the internet is imposed.
    --
    Roger Blake
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Borax Man@boraxman@geidiprime.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 12:37:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-05-16 14:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I >>>>> didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>>>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>>>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we >>>> agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws >>>> in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, >>> alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    That's an USAian trait, actually. They even name their country America forgetting the continent, and that Mexicans and Argentinians and
    Brazilian can say "We are Americans".


    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives
    always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.



    I don't really care what you call that body of water near Texas, or your continent. It has not effect on Australians.

    What DOES affect us is the crappy company culture and other cultural initiatives that you export. Its when we in Australia have to toe
    American cultural lines, and often they are the East/West Coast Liberal
    Elite ideas.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Borax Man@boraxman@geidiprime.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 12:44:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-16, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:


    On 5/16/26 05:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I >>>>> didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them >>>>> from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and
    everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop >>>>> me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we >>>> agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm
    neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides
    a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have
    no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws >>>> in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law
    to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, >>> alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    No Californians do not think that the entire world is theirs. The Legislature though is not technically oriented and the big actors on
    the Internet Stage do not want to assume responsibility for their content.



    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives
    always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.

    We in California who use Open Source and happen to have
    gotten here before all the places were taken are a bit snotty about
    our good luck. I grew up in a different California and Nevada than
    are currently available but still I found a place to be here in
    San Francisco for the last 59 years so I live in a place where the
    skies may be cloudy and it can rain a lot but the wind off the
    Pacific blows the clouds away and dries the streets. Unless it
    is a wind from the land which is even dryer usually. So dry that
    it starts fires in the tatty dried grass covering the steep sides
    of various mini-mountain ranges to the North, East and South.


    Yet are so eager to judge any other member of Western Civilisation
    according to their standards. This is more a "American Liberal" trait
    than specifically a Californian one, though that part of the USA is
    quite conspicuous.

    Take B Lab for instance, they do B Corp certifications. From
    Pensylvania, this essentially gets companits to follow *specifically
    Liberal American* concerns. That is, this expects us to follow
    America's ideas of Social Justice, etc.

    But further to this, when discussing online, I find Americans to not
    care about your own countries culture. If we in Australia don't fit
    THEIR idea of right-think, all manner of accusations come.

    Half if that is the fault though of people here, crazy activists who
    want to take on American causes. I mean, we had BLM protests here!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 13:48:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 18/05/2026 13:37, Borax Man wrote:
    I don't really care what you call that body of water near Texas, or your continent. It has no effect on Australians.

    Well minimal. Butterflies in Brazil etc.

    What DOES affect us is the crappy company culture and other cultural initiatives that you export. Its when we in Australia have to toe
    American cultural lines, and often they are the East/West Coast Liberal
    Elite ideas.

    Indeed. The problem is that there is no societal model that seems
    currently to be worth copying.

    Russia? You are kidding
    China? You are kidding
    Iran? You are kidding.
    The EU? You are kidding
    The USA? You are kidding
    New Zealand? Bad joke

    Instead of working out which team is the least worst, perhaps
    politicians should try and make up their own team

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OvW8Z7kiws
    --
    "It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 18:09:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-18 14:37, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-05-16 14:32, Borax Man wrote:
    On 2026-05-16, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
    Le 16-05-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    On 2026-05-15 22:29, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 13-05-2026, John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> a |-crit-a:
    I heard systemd added an optional age field a
    specific distro can force upon its use on their users.

    I read things about that, but nothing technical, only rhetorical so I >>>>>> didn't took care of it because:
    - The principle is stupid, the issue is about education. If people can't >>>>>> be educated when they are child or later, then one can't protect them
    from themselves forever.
    - I really like to know how a distro would be able to force age
    verification on my computer. I mean, it's Linux, it's FOSS and >>>>>> everything, it's not Windows or Apple. So what could they do to stop
    me to revert any option they put in place?


    No, the real issue is complying with the law. It does not matter if we >>>>> agree with it or not.

    Except that we are speaking about agreeing with California law when I'm >>>> neither a Californian nor living there. So if the distribution provides >>>> a way to enforce Californian law, as a french living in France, I have >>>> no obligation, neither moral nor legal, to follow it.

    It does not matter if we think it is about education.

    For now, there is nothing in the law about that in France. So I don't
    care about the rhetorical discussions about it because I consider the
    principle being stupid.

    So now the legal teams in distributions are analyzing the several laws >>>>> in the world and trying to then tell the developers and system designers >>>>> what to do next.

    For now, what I hear is most about trying to know how to evolve the law >>>> to take social media into account because it's not covered. Unlike porn, >>>> alcohol, drugs or cigarettes.


    Californians seem to think the entire world is theirs. I think they
    don't realise there are other places where they can do what they want,
    and don't have to follow their insane lead.

    That's an USAian trait, actually. They even name their country America
    forgetting the continent, and that Mexicans and Argentinians and
    Brazilian can say "We are Americans".


    The problem is, that apps and platforms DO comply, however alternatives
    always exist, and FOSS will remain an alternative.



    I don't really care what you call that body of water near Texas, or your continent. It has not effect on Australians.

    What DOES affect us is the crappy company culture and other cultural initiatives that you export. Its when we in Australia have to toe
    American cultural lines, and often they are the East/West Coast Liberal
    Elite ideas.

    Why are you telling me that?
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 16:14:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 12:37:12 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

    What DOES affect us is the crappy company culture and other cultural initiatives that you export. Its when we in Australia have to toe
    American cultural lines, and often they are the East/West Coast Liberal
    Elite ideas.

    I live in an area that may be most similar to WA. We also pray for global warming and rising seas to eliminate both coasts .
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Riches@spamtrap42@jacob21819.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 20:35:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:11:25 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever
    reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used
    for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet) [1].
    You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US
    residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to
    authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet
    services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt
    "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be
    served content.

    The camel's nose is in the tent with the Social Security Administration. There are two schemes for verification; pick one. I believe both require a DL or equivalent and a facial photo. Fortunately I don't have to log into their site.

    For those in the US, the IRS is even worse. They have only one
    option for authentication, ID.Me. That option requires either a
    selfie or a video chat. My main desktop machine doesn't do
    selfies, and it doesn't do video chat because it's behind double
    IPv4 NAT, which Zoom chokes on. My 4G flip phone doesn't really
    do selfies, and its browser is way too limited to do video chat.

    So, instead of getting a direct deposit from the IRS in April,
    I'm expecting my refund by paper check in the second half of
    June--unless the IRS finds yet another way to delay it. The
    direct deposit information was perfectly readable on my paper tax
    return document. The IRS's OCR just couldn't read it, probably
    because a few of the digits touched the bounding box.
    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 22:49:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-18 22:35, Robert Riches wrote:
    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:11:25 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever
    reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used
    for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet) [1]. >>> You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US
    residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to
    authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet
    services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt
    "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be
    served content.

    The camel's nose is in the tent with the Social Security Administration.
    There are two schemes for verification; pick one. I believe both require a >> DL or equivalent and a facial photo. Fortunately I don't have to log into
    their site.

    For those in the US, the IRS is even worse. They have only one
    option for authentication, ID.Me. That option requires either a
    selfie or a video chat. My main desktop machine doesn't do
    selfies, and it doesn't do video chat because it's behind double
    IPv4 NAT, which Zoom chokes on. My 4G flip phone doesn't really
    do selfies, and its browser is way too limited to do video chat.

    So, instead of getting a direct deposit from the IRS in April,
    I'm expecting my refund by paper check in the second half of
    June--unless the IRS finds yet another way to delay it. The
    direct deposit information was perfectly readable on my paper tax
    return document. The IRS's OCR just couldn't read it, probably
    because a few of the digits touched the bounding box.

    In Spain, we no longer fill the taxes in paper, but when we did, years
    back, there was a page with several large graphical bit codes that
    scanners could read easily. That was the only part that mattered, they
    did not OCR the document at all.

    The documents were generated by Acrobat Reader, so not really an open
    format, which is one reason they disappeared and now we fill them only
    online.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 21:06:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 18 May 2026 20:35:49 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:

    The direct deposit information was perfectly readable on my paper
    tax return document.

    I was running my own Python scripts to print out form pages from PDF
    files overlaid with my filled-in details from a database or wherever,
    including positioning each digit of a number to fit nicely within the
    boxes.

    These were only obsoleted when our Efc|Efc+ IRD moved to online submissions. --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 21:09:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 22:49:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    The documents were generated by Acrobat Reader, so not really an
    open format ...

    PDF is officially an ISO standard now (ISO 32000), no longer under the
    control of Adobe. And even before that, they freely published the
    specs (post-Acrobat-1.0), so there are plenty of open-source toolkits
    for reading PDF files, writing PDF files, and generally messing about
    with PDF files.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Heller@heller@deepsoft.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 21:12:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    At Mon, 18 May 2026 22:49:20 +0200 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2026-05-18 22:35, Robert Riches wrote:
    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 15:11:25 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    But, where *they* could go (note, no idea if the politicians will ever >>> reach this point) is requiring some "government authenticator" be used >>> for accessing networked services (i.e., for accessing the internet) [1]. >>> You would need to use a govt. issued ID (drivers license for US
    residents, national ID card for much of the rest of the world) to
    authenticate your age with the "Age-ta" govt. system, and all internet >>> services (i.e., all websites) which "might" in some way happen to
    sometimes offer up "age inappropriate" content [2] to also use the govt >>> "Age-ta" system to authenticate that you are indeed "old-enough" to be >>> served content.

    The camel's nose is in the tent with the Social Security Administration. >> There are two schemes for verification; pick one. I believe both require a >> DL or equivalent and a facial photo. Fortunately I don't have to log into >> their site.

    For those in the US, the IRS is even worse. They have only one
    option for authentication, ID.Me. That option requires either a
    selfie or a video chat. My main desktop machine doesn't do
    selfies, and it doesn't do video chat because it's behind double
    IPv4 NAT, which Zoom chokes on. My 4G flip phone doesn't really
    do selfies, and its browser is way too limited to do video chat.

    So, instead of getting a direct deposit from the IRS in April,
    I'm expecting my refund by paper check in the second half of
    June--unless the IRS finds yet another way to delay it. The
    direct deposit information was perfectly readable on my paper tax
    return document. The IRS's OCR just couldn't read it, probably
    because a few of the digits touched the bounding box.

    In Spain, we no longer fill the taxes in paper, but when we did, years
    back, there was a page with several large graphical bit codes that
    scanners could read easily. That was the only part that mattered, they
    did not OCR the document at all.

    The documents were generated by Acrobat Reader, so not really an open
    format, which is one reason they disappeared and now we fill them only online.
    The problem with "on-line" filing in the US is that the IRS does not have a
    way for people filing their to just upload the forms or even to directly fill them out electronicly directly with the IRS. Instead, there are a number of *commercial* entities that you can file your taxes with (for a fee for non-trivial filings), but it is not a direct form filling out, it is some cutely coded website that is "User Friendly". Well, maybe if you have a dumb and simple tax return. But if you have even a slightly more complicated tax return, especially if you are filing a Sced. C {business) and Sched. 4562 (Depreciation), User Friendly becomes really not so friendly. I only bothered with on-line filing for a couple of years before giving it up and going back
    to paper forms. (I use OTS (Open Tax Solver), which generates the forms, I think using the fill-in forms. The only I have to fill in is the 4562. And I write a little Tcl program to deal with the Depreciation.

    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Charlie Gibbs@cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 21:18:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And there you have it. The only difference between legal
    and illegal drugs is whether the government gets a cut.
    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 00:44:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 21:18:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the
    legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the
    state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And there you have it. The only difference between legal and illegal
    drugs is whether the government gets a cut.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Road_(1958_film)

    The government looking for its cut...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1CYKDoYCIM

    'The Ballad of Thunder Road'

    You don't 'shoot the gap at Cumberland' anymore. They built a tunnel under
    it to preserve the historic area. Harlan has a Walmart like every other
    damn place. Seeing the movie at an impressionable age left me with a
    fondness for '51 Fords. He had upgraded in the movie clips. The '57 Ford doesn't do it for me.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 00:50:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 22:49:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    In Spain, we no longer fill the taxes in paper, but when we did, years
    back, there was a page with several large graphical bit codes that
    scanners could read easily. That was the only part that mattered, they
    did not OCR the document at all.

    I haven't used paper in several years. After they sopped mailing the forms
    you could get them at the library but I'm not sure that you still can.

    My tax situation is not at all complicated so it's an exercise in filling
    in boxes. Since all the information has been already reported to the government they could do it but somehow the politicians screw up making it that easy.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 00:54:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 21:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    The problem with "on-line" filing in the US is that the IRS does not
    have a way for people filing their to just upload the forms or even to directly fill them out electronicly directly with the IRS. Instead,
    there are a number of *commercial* entities that you can file your taxes
    with (for a fee for non-trivial filings), but it is not a direct form
    filling out, it is some cutely coded website that is "User Friendly".
    Well, maybe if you have a dumb and simple tax return.

    Anymore mine is dumb and simple. I really am not interested in the
    business end of a 'business' and I hated filing quarterlies. The service I
    use is free for the Federal return although they try to up sell. The state return is $25 iirc and well worth it for the whole mess.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 18:01:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 5/18/26 14:18, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the
    legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the
    state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And there you have it. The only difference between legal
    and illegal drugs is whether the government gets a cut.


    But to get to that point many people took the role of
    medical cannabis to a new point so that state by state we won
    legalization of that legitimate use of cannabis. When the
    state decided to legalize recreational use of cannabis and
    the physicians still could not legally prescribe the use of
    cannabis for their patients the medical exception no longer
    applied. So taxes were imposed that increased the cost
    to medical patients who were no longer able to use the
    services of physicians who did not care about the Federal
    govenment's inane rules.

    bliss
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Mon May 18 21:57:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/18/26 21:01, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 5/18/26 14:18, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2026-05-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    Prohibition itself and the War on Drugs point out how effective the
    legislation is. Marijuana is legal in this state. The difference is the
    state gets a 22% sales take from the corner dispensary.

    And there you have it.-a The only difference between legal
    and illegal drugs is whether the government gets a cut.


    -a-a-a-aBut to get to that point many people took the role of
    medical cannabis to a new point so that state by state we won
    legalization of that legitimate use of cannabis.-a When the
    state decided to legalize recreational use of cannabis and
    the physicians still could not legally prescribe the use of
    cannabis for their patients the medical exception no longer
    applied.-a So taxes were imposed that increased the cost
    to medical patients who were no longer able to use the
    services of physicians who did not care about the Federal
    govenment's inane rules.

    -a-a-a-abliss

    Look ... smoking lots of weed/THC isn't any better
    for you than smoking 3 packs of cigs a day or drinking
    a fifth of Jack every day or eating two pounds of
    french fries every day. Each will take its toll.

    But - "because it's not good for you" is NOT an excuse
    for a bunch of prohibitionist laws and enforcers. You
    are looking at fanatical puritan thinking here, not
    the Good Of The State/Citizens.

    INFORM ... then people can make their OWN choices.
    That's "freedom". Sometimes it can turn out badly,
    but inhibiting such freedom pretty much always turns
    out MUCH worse on every scale for all but Those In
    Charge. THEY always get their piece of the action ...

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 02:05:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 12:34:29 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

    Of course "attestation" is the end game that the people pushing are
    really after. The time to push back is now, before "attestation" to
    simply make use of the internet is imposed.

    rCLinternetrCY rea rCLwebrCY rea rCLmainstream social-media sitesrCY
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 02:07:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 12:37:12 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

    Its when we in Australia have to toe American cultural lines, and
    often they are the East/West Coast Liberal Elite ideas.

    Amusing to hear you describe *any* USians as rCLliberalrCY. I know they
    see themselves that way, but realistically, as far as the rest of the
    world is concerned (e.g. here in NZ), what we would call rCLcentristrCY is
    what they would call rCLsocialistrCY.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 02:13:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 21:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    The problem with "on-line" filing in the US is that the IRS does not
    have a way for people filing their to just upload the forms or even
    to directly fill them out electronicly directly with the IRS.
    Instead, there are a number of *commercial* entities that you can
    file your taxes with (for a fee for non-trivial filings), but it is
    not a direct form filling out, it is some cutely coded website that
    is "User Friendly". Well, maybe if you have a dumb and simple tax
    return.

    Is this the result of political lobbying by the tax companies? Because
    here in Efc|Efc+, ordinary people like myself have no problem logging on to
    the IRD website and submitting our returns directly. Checking my
    records, I signed up for an account with them over a decade and a half
    ago.

    Presumably Big+Importantrao companies have outside agents to manage that
    kind of thing for them while providing advice on tax minimization, but
    IrCOm sure thererCOs no actual requirement for using any third-party intermediary, even for them.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 04:52:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 19 May 2026 02:07:27 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 12:37:12 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

    Its when we in Australia have to toe American cultural lines, and often
    they are the East/West Coast Liberal Elite ideas.

    Amusing to hear you describe *any* USians as rCLliberalrCY. I know they see themselves that way, but realistically, as far as the rest of the world
    is concerned (e.g. here in NZ), what we would call rCLcentristrCY is what they would call rCLsocialistrCY.

    I read an essay in a paleoconservative magazine where the author suggested 'right-liberal' to reflect the original meaning. I don't think that would work. It would be as confusing as left and right libertarians.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 04:58:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:01:40 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

    So taxes were imposed that increased the cost
    to medical patients who were no longer able to use the services of
    physicians who did not care about the Federal govenment's inane rules.

    In Montana I believe you can still get a medical card and pay a much lower sales tax than the 22% recreational tax.

    Those days are long behind me but I would never register as a medical user
    if they weren't.

    "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
    Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal
    law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized
    for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

    That's a question on the 4473 form. Unlike Hunter Biden I'd rather not
    lie.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 05:08:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 19 May 2026 02:13:58 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    Is this the result of political lobbying by the tax companies? Because
    here in Efc|Efc+, ordinary people like myself have no problem logging on to the IRD website and submitting our returns directly. Checking my
    records, I signed up for an account with them over a decade and a half
    ago.

    You bet your bippy. H&R Block supposedly offers free online filing if your
    tax return is not complicated. 'You received income last year? That's
    pretty complicated.' Supposedly the IRS has a free filing program too with
    the stipulation 'you may qualify...'

    There's just enough there so say you can file for free with a straight
    face if you're willing to jump through the hoops and up sell come-ons.
    There's big money in tax preparations and the CPAs don't like people
    trying to break their rice bowls.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 02:03:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 5/19/26 01:08, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 02:13:58 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    Is this the result of political lobbying by the tax companies? Because
    here in Efc|Efc+, ordinary people like myself have no problem logging on to >> the IRD website and submitting our returns directly. Checking my
    records, I signed up for an account with them over a decade and a half
    ago.

    You bet your bippy. H&R Block supposedly offers free online filing if your tax return is not complicated. 'You received income last year? That's
    pretty complicated.' Supposedly the IRS has a free filing program too with the stipulation 'you may qualify...'


    Heh heh heh ... all VERY true !!!

    There's a REASON I use a good CPA firm to do
    my (relatively simple) taxes. WELL worth
    the money !!!

    NEVER get on the wrong side of the USA's
    IRS ! Stay OFF their radar. Have soldiers
    to protect you Just In Case.

    Got a weird letter from the IRS of late.
    NOT sure what it meant exactly. My CPA
    firm DID ... something about 20 million
    errant such letters being sent out. This
    info wasn't online/reliable.

    Ya get what you pay for.


    There's just enough there so say you can file for free with a straight
    face if you're willing to jump through the hoops and up sell come-ons. There's big money in tax preparations and the CPAs don't like people
    trying to break their rice bowls.

    MOST of the 'tax firms' you see in TV commercials
    and such are NOT very good or detailed. If you have
    a SINGLE source of income and aren't claiming any
    special deductions then they may serve. Anything
    even a speck more complicated - TUFF TITTY !

    Didn't USED to be this way, but now ..... the
    biz/profit thing became more important than
    the 'professionalism' thing.

    And these days, WHO the hell are they hiring to
    do yer taxes ? Are they copying down yer account
    numbers and such and selling them to Iran or China ?

    News stories of corrupt 'experts' are plentiful.
    At minimum, if you're worth dick, some people may
    show up and coerce you at gunpoint into giving
    them money.

    This is NOT GOOD.

    SOME new paradigm is needed.

    Frankly the IRS *already knows* every penny you
    have earned and your likely deductions. Why don't
    they just send you a bill - which you can amend
    IF NEEDED ??? No real need for 3rd parties at all.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue May 19 02:38:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    I think I was talking to you ....

    Bought $100 new 'sound bar' for my TV - "Ultimea".

    A few days of fucking around with it.

    DISCONNECTED. $100 down the drain. Which
    recycle bin do I use ?

    Intractable 'reverb'-like effect - even using optical
    input. Worst with studio news-readers for some reason.
    It's SOME kind of processing error ... either in relation
    to the built-in TV speakers (did fool with that) or
    more likely processing delay between the stereo channels.
    NO setting totally fixed it.

    The overall SOUND was better than with my old sound
    bar fer sure - but that 'reverb' was driving me nuts.
    There is also like some very-high-frequency overtone
    that actually made my ears ring. Could not get rid
    of it.

    Oh, final insult ... a "power saving" soft power switch.
    No sound for like five minutes and it TURNED OFF and
    did NOT auto-reactivate when sound returned.

    DID fix my little old sound bar ... used the optical
    input instead of copper. Voice is CLEAR and NO
    funky reverb-like effects. Audio range is not as good.

    When younger I was kind of an audiophile ... had
    pretty expensive amps/speakers. Can't hear nearly
    as well now so cheaper serves well. If you're
    young, DO look into magneplanar speakers, the
    nearest thing to 'transparent' audio. Have an
    old REM cd with a song that starts with the sound
    of a manual typewriter ... with those good speakers
    the effect of "being right there" was hair-raising.

    Still have those little Bose wedge speakers ... MAY
    use them for low-level background to improve the
    low end. Oddly, for all the wires, do NOT have the
    right sound plug ... gotta shop ... stereo 2-way
    3.5 plug-in audio cable.

    And, so far, my horribly slashed-up old-fart arm
    from all the exercise has not become infected !
    Still looks awful, but such things usually do.
    It'll be two or three weeks to heal though.
    Lucky I have lots of stretch-wrap bandage ...
    old farts should have a LOT of that on hand !
    "Neosporin" goop too !!! Ain't my first
    slashing ... won't be my last. NO good fix
    for 'thin skin' either other than bloody tweaks
    to turn yer arms into one giant scar .....

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2