From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!
--
Of what good are dead warriors? rCa Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory rCa The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill
this NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

You want everyone to use the noobist of noob distros? Ubuntu is Debian
with training wheels. Mint is training wheels on the training
wheels. The problem with Linux is that it stopped being hard. Now we
have eternal september.
--
PGP Key ID: 781C A3E2 C6ED 70A6 B356 7AF5 B510 542E D460 5CAE
"The Internet should always be the Wild West!"
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On 5/11/26 11:11, jayjwa wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill
this NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

You want everyone to use the noobist of noob distros? Ubuntu is Debian
with training wheels. Mint is training wheels on the training
wheels. The problem with Linux is that it stopped being hard. Now we
have eternal september.

And what pray tell is wrong with having Eternal-September though it lags behind
me now in final December? The big problem was Windows-< and MacOS-<
enabling thousands of ignorant people to get on the WWW.
Some of us ignorant folks using other systems were educated by our contact
with the WWW but others continued and did weird things to try to break
what they
did not understand.

bliss
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/05/2026 19:11, jayjwa wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill
this NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

You want everyone to use the noobist of noob distros? Ubuntu is Debian
with training wheels. Mint is training wheels on the training
wheels.

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

The problem with Linux is that it stopped being hard. Now we
have eternal september.

The problem with Linux gurus is that they have nothing to offer anyone
any more.

They have spent years trying to make people use Linux so they could hold court, but now everyone is using Linux (Mind) no one wants to hear them
hold court any more. And they don't have to, because there aren't any complicated problems. With Mint.

Some people want to enjoy the fuel injected transistorised ignition
drive, not sit at the roadside in the rain unblocking a carburettor and setting their points...
--
rCLIt is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.rCY
Sir Roger Scruton

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/05/2026 19:11, jayjwa wrote:

<snip>

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

<snip>

What is needed is one of the following:

1. PC/Laptops comes pre-installed with a Linux Distro
or a BSD
2. PC/Laptops come without a pre-installed OS and the
user Needs to purchase Windows or get a free Linux
distro install.

I would prefer # 2, but until Microsoft is forced to
change its ways, Windows will be the most used OS.

You can bet if people had to pay real $ for for Windows,
hardly anyone would be using Windows these days.
--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/05/2026 19:11, jayjwa wrote:

<snip>

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

<snip>

What is needed is one of the following:

1. PC/Laptops comes pre-installed with a Linux Distro
or a BSD
2. PC/Laptops come without a pre-installed OS and the
user Needs to purchase Windows or get a free Linux
distro install.

I would prefer # 2, but until Microsoft is forced to
change its ways, Windows will be the most used OS.

You can bet if people had to pay real $ for for Windows,
hardly anyone would be using Windows these days.

There is a reason Gates, way back in the day, wrote his contracts for
OEM's to install windows such that they could not offer computers
without windows pre-installed.

He understood full well that the typical purchaser would simply use
whatever came with the box, and he made sure that something was mswin,
thereby guaranteeing a sale for MS for every computer purchase. And he
very likely, despite all the crowing to the contrary, knew full well
that if the machines shipped bare, and the purchasers then had to
separately pay for an OS (MSwin or otherwise) that he'd not get nearly
as many sales as he got by force tying the two together.

For most people, they are going to take the path of least resistance,
and when every computer in every shop comes with windows almost every
one of the purchasers is just going to "use what came with the box".

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On 5/11/26 13:57, John McCue wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/05/2026 19:11, jayjwa wrote:

<snip>

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

<snip>

What is needed is one of the following:

1. PC/Laptops comes pre-installed with a Linux Distro
or a BSD

These are available from several suppliers. Look to Distowatch.com.

2. PC/Laptops come without a pre-installed OS and the
user Needs to purchase Windows or get a free Linux
distro install.

Well I get refurbished laptops out of Walmart and install PCLinuxOS
on them which answers my needs.

I would prefer # 2, but until Microsoft is forced to
change its ways, Windows will be the most used OS.

Linux is the most used OS these days but most of it is
on servers or called Android.

You can bet if people had to pay real $ for for Windows,
hardly anyone would be using Windows these days.

They use what they are somewhat familiar with from work
which is in the USA almost always the Microsloth product.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

Hardly. But of course you're free to unsubscribe from here and just
use alt.os.linux.mint, where I guess nobody ever has any problems
at all?
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 11 May 2026 20:57:09 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

What is needed is one of the following:

1. PC/Laptops comes pre-installed with a Linux Distro or a BSD
2. PC/Laptops come without a pre-installed OS and the user Needs
to purchase Windows or get a free Linux distro install.

Quite a few vendors offering one or the other: Dell, Lenovo,
Framework, Tuxedo, System76 ...

Have a look at this comparison
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvYt1GgcsUI> with a MacBook Neo.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Well ... it's FRENCH after all ! :-)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/11/26 18:24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

Hardly. But of course you're free to unsubscribe from here and just
use alt.os.linux.mint, where I guess nobody ever has any problems
at all?

Correct - MINT is perfect !!!

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:00:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

A French Heidegger would be a wonder to behold. Descartes did enough
damage.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 11 May 2026 20:57:09 -0000 (UTC), John McCue
<jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

What is needed is one of the following:

1. PC/Laptops comes pre-installed with a Linux Distro
or a BSD
2. PC/Laptops come without a pre-installed OS and the
user Needs to purchase Windows or get a free Linux
distro install.

I would prefer # 2, but until Microsoft is forced to
change its ways, Windows will be the most used OS.

My present desktop computer, on which I'm typing this, came with no
O/S as in #2.

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives on
Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

I then installed Fedora dual-boot from a DVD that came with a magazine
and that ran fine too.

But Windows XP didn't need you to phone home all the time to work.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 07:37:09 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives on
Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

Last I checked, OEM Windows licences are not transferable to a
different machine.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/12/26 01:50, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 07:37:09 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives on
Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

Last I checked, OEM Windows licences are not transferable to a
different machine.

Technically not. However M$ seems to have
abandoned policing their Old Shit.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-12, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 07:37:09 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives on
Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

Last I checked, OEM Windows licences are not transferable to a
different machine.

On which jurisdictions? How much of that is actually de jure and how
much of it is unenforceable wishful thinking in EULAs?


(BTW: NT 5.1 already allowed hardware-based activation, but IIRC it
requires modified install media with some certificates from the "OEM".)
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/05/2026 23:24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

Hardly. But of course you're free to unsubscribe from here and just
use alt.os.linux.mint, where I guess nobody ever has any problems
at all?

Didnt know it existed. Probably very low traffic
--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 12/05/2026 04:58, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:00:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill this
NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

A French Heidegger would be a wonder to behold. Descartes did enough
damage.

Amen to that.
And he wrote in Latin IIRC
--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:11:23 -0400, jayjwa wrote:

You want everyone to use the noobist of noob distros? Ubuntu is Debian
with training wheels. Mint is training wheels on the training
wheels. The problem with Linux is that it stopped being hard. Now we
have eternal september.

Another 1337 hax0r.

The problem is that people like this don't want the "common user" to use
their OS, because it would make them less 1337. In the early days they prevented this by overwhelming new users with command lines. These
aren't needed anymore more unless you're a power user. Now they're angry
and feel threatened in their uniqueness, because anybody can use Linux
now.

"Linux is stopped being hard."

Boohoo!
--
s|b
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 05:50:28 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D|+Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 07:37:09 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives on
Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

Last I checked, OEM Windows licences are not transferable to a
different machine.

Maybe it wasn't OEM then.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On 5/12/26 08:28, s|b wrote:

On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:11:23 -0400, jayjwa wrote:

You want everyone to use the noobist of noob distros? Ubuntu is Debian
with training wheels. Mint is training wheels on the training
wheels. The problem with Linux is that it stopped being hard. Now we
have eternal september.

Another 1337 hax0r.

The problem is that people like this don't want the "common user" to use their OS, because it would make them less 1337. In the early days they prevented this by overwhelming new users with command lines. These
aren't needed anymore more unless you're a power user. Now they're angry
and feel threatened in their uniqueness, because anybody can use Linux
now.

"Linux is stopped being hard."

Boohoo!

Linux has not been hard since Mandrake and the Gael Duval work on it. That goes back to the later 1990s. But on Mandriva the step away from Mandrake, it was easy to use and learn about what you were using, with
KDE at least. Trying to help users of Ubuntu under Gnome or Unity
it was very difficult. Simplification and hiding the works behind cute
Desktop Environments did not help those users. Of course the Mandrake
was not cheap nor was Mandriva except for the basic Mandriva Linux
download which lacked some libraries and codecs to make it easy to
use.

Boo to your Boo Hoo!
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 17:48:29 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 05:50:28 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 07:37:09 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

I restored my Acronis backups from the previous one, C & D drives
on Drive 0 and E, F, & G drives on drive 1.

It booted Windows XP and ran like nothing had happened,

Last I checked, OEM Windows licences are not transferable to a
different machine.

Maybe it wasn't OEM then.

Sure ...
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 17:28:36 +0200, s|b wrote:

The problem is that people like this don't want the "common user" to use their OS, because it would make them less 1337. In the early days they prevented this by overwhelming new users with command lines. These
aren't needed anymore more unless you're a power user. Now they're angry
and feel threatened in their uniqueness, because anybody can use Linux
now.

I use Arch btw. Well, sort of. Until Sunday. Now I use Leap 16 btw.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:09:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 11/05/2026 23:24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

...would not exist if they had written in German.

It occurs to me that all the problems of various distros that fill
this NG would not exist...
... if everybody installed Linux Mint.!

Hardly. But of course you're free to unsubscribe from here and just use
alt.os.linux.mint, where I guess nobody ever has any problems at all?

Didnt know it existed. Probably very low traffic

There is a little bit every now and then.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 09:09:34 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

Linux has not been hard since Mandrake and the Gael Duval work on

it.

That goes back to the later 1990s.

I had Mandrake on one older machine but about all I remember is the
penguin with a magic wand on the box. iirc it use what was then the K
Desktop Environment.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On 5/12/26 21:59, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 09:09:34 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

Linux has not been hard since Mandrake and the Gael Duval work on

it.

That goes back to the later 1990s.

I had Mandrake on one older machine but about all I remember is the
penguin with a magic wand on the box. iirc it used what was then the K Desktop Environment.

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and how did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

I was still using the AmigaOS then and had no x86 boxes of any
sort. When I started with Mandriva it was because I had been the
recipient of
a Pentium laptop with XP. A friend sent me a copy of Mandriva because a another online pal had recommended it. i got a DVD with the iso files
of 6 Mandriva installation disks and never really looked back as the
XP had a CD writer and tool for writing each of the 6 iso files onto CD
disks. The install was very similar to the AmigaOS with about 6 floppy
disks.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.04- Linux 6.12.87 pclos1- KDE
Plasma 6.6.4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and

how

did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim
Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail out
free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with a CD
in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and

how

did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail out free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with a CD in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD.

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.


That in Portugal, and from what I recall the ones which did that more
often or always were imported from across the pond?
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 13 May 2026 23:15:10 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

I've mostly switched to digital the the gym is next to a Barnes and Noble store and I was curious enough to go in. It used to have a good selection
of computer and tech books but that has dwindled to one shelf I was amazed
to find Linux Magazine on the rack and mode amazed to see it had a DVD.

https://shop.linuxnewmedia.com/shop/eh30307-linux-magazine-307-print-
issue-902

I think the issue I saw had openSUSE and Fedora so they must work their
way through disrtos.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-14 00:15, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and

how

did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim
Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail out
free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with a CD >> in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD.

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

According to Google, Ubuntu initial release was on 2004.

On the other hand, I got magazines with Linux CDs on the summer of 1998.

That in Portugal, and from what I recall the ones which did that more
often or always were imported from across the pond?

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 14/05/2026 11:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-14 00:15, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a-a-a-a-a I can only envy the depth of your experience.-a Indeed and >>> how
did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim
Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail
out
free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with
a CD
in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD.

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

According to Google, Ubuntu initial release was on 2004.

On the other hand, I got magazines with Linux CDs on the summer of 1998.

I believe so.

I bought a red hat book with a CD around 2001. Internet then was
basically dial up.
Once ADSL arrived a couple of years later downloading became possible

First install was Debian, then I tried Ubuntu but switched to Mint
around 2010 I guess


--
rCLI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.rCY

rCo Leo Tolstoy

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 14 May 2026 12:27:48 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-14 00:15, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and

how

did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People

claim

Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail
out
free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with

a

CD
in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone
CD.

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

According to Google, Ubuntu initial release was on 2004.

On the other hand, I got magazines with Linux CDs on the summer of 1998.

I don't remember specific magazines but my 1998 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed'
book had a disk in back. The book itself is over 1000 pages. Many trees suffered in that era.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-14, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-05-14 00:15, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and how
did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim
Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail out >>> free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with a CD >>> in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD.

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

According to Google, Ubuntu initial release was on 2004.

On the other hand, I got magazines with Linux CDs on the summer of 1998.

When I decided to try Linux, I went to the local bookstore, flipped
through the various Linux books, and chose the one I liked best,
which happened to be by Patrick Volkerding. It contained a CD for
Slackware 3.5; a bit of searching suggests it came out in 1998.
(Wow, how time flies...)
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-14 20:38, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-05-14, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-05-14 00:15, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-05-13, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2026 22:15:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

I can only envy the depth of your experience. Indeed and how
did the installation go if you can dredge that up from your memory?

Very smoothly compared to Slackware's many many diskettes. People claim >>>> Ubuntu is what popularized Linux but the only thing they did was mail out >>>> free CDs. You didn't have to buy a box set or a magazine or book with a CD >>>> in it. The 1998 Sams 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' came with a long gone CD. >>>

I think I saw some magazines with discs of Linux-based systems on
shelves some years before I saw Ubuntu shipped install media for free,
I'd say these magazines probably did more to popularize it, or at least
make it known.

According to Google, Ubuntu initial release was on 2004.

On the other hand, I got magazines with Linux CDs on the summer of 1998.

When I decided to try Linux, I went to the local bookstore, flipped
through the various Linux books, and chose the one I liked best,
which happened to be by Patrick Volkerding. It contained a CD for
Slackware 3.5; a bit of searching suggests it came out in 1998.
(Wow, how time flies...)

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 14/05/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote:

I don't remember specific magazines but my 1998 'Red Hat Linux Unleashed' book had a disk in back. The book itself is over 1000 pages. Many trees suffered in that era.

I think that is how I bought my disc. I cant remember ever reading the
book. Maybe the installation chapter
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 14 May 2026 18:38:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

When I decided to try Linux, I went to the local bookstore, flipped
through the various Linux books, and chose the one I liked best, which happened to be by Patrick Volkerding. It contained a CD for Slackware
3.5; a bit of searching suggests it came out in 1998. (Wow, how time flies...)

A CD for Slackware whatever that I installed from diskettes would have
been grand.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/14/26 19:50, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 18:38:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

When I decided to try Linux, I went to the local bookstore, flipped
through the various Linux books, and chose the one I liked best, which
happened to be by Patrick Volkerding. It contained a CD for Slackware
3.5; a bit of searching suggests it came out in 1998. (Wow, how time
flies...)

A CD for Slackware whatever that I installed from diskettes would have
been grand.

Heh heh ... know the feeling ! :-)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-15, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive
solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?

I can't see how is that a problem re: Veronica :-P

gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/v2
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-15 01:51, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive
solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?

I have no idea what those are :-)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-15, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-15 01:51, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive
solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?

I have no idea what those are :-)

FTP search engine, gopher search engine.

(Or comic book characters :-P)

I already linked Veronica-2, as for archie the following (despite
disabled) was seen, I think, in rec.arts.sf.written in recent days: https://archie.serialport.org/
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 13:58:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-15 01:51, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive
solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty
CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?

I have no idea what those are :-)

Kids...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Comics

However in this context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughead_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_(search_engine)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-15 19:26, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2026 13:58:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-15 01:51, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:56:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Right, I just remembered I got a "Linux Unleashed, the comprehensive
solution!", third edition, Byt Tim Parker, SAMS. I see inside an empty >>>> CD envelope. Copyright 1998. Oh! There is another CD envelope on the
back cover (inside). Good quality paper, has not yellowed.

No, but the information has for the most part. Does it have chapters
devoted to Archie, Versonica, and friends?

I have no idea what those are :-)

Kids...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Comics

However in this context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughead_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_(search_engine)

+++---------
Archie is a tool for indexing FTP archives, allowing users to more
easily identify specific files. It is considered the first Internet
search engine.[2] The original implementation was written in 1990 by
Alan Emtage, then a postgraduate student at McGill University in
Montreal, Canada.[3][4][5][6] Archie was superseded by other, more sophisticated search engines, including Jughead and Veronica, which were search engines for the Gopher protocol. These were in turn superseded by
World Wide Web search engines like AltaVista and directories like Yahoo!
in 1995. Work on Archie ceased in the late 1990s. A legacy Archie server
was maintained for historic purposes in Poland at Interdisciplinary
Centre for Mathematical and Computational Modelling in the University of Warsaw until 2023.
---------++-

So by the end of the century they did not exist. I did not have internet
till the turn of the century. In the 90's I had Fidonet, which had some
search system I have forgotten. I just asked ChatGPT to remind me.


+++---------
Yes. In classic FidoNet systems, file searching was typically done
through **File Requests (FREQ)** and **file echo indexes** rather than a global searchable database like the modern web.

Common methods were:

### 1. File Request (FREQ)

You sent a request directly to a node that hosted files.

Typical syntax from a mailer or tosser:

```text
FREQ filename.zip
```

or using a command-line mailer:

```text
binkd -f filename.zip 2:2452/110
```

The remote system would automatically send the file during the next mail session if:

* the filename matched
* the node allowed FREQs
* you had access rights

Wildcards were often supported:

```text
FREQ yast*.zip
```

---

### 2. ALLFIX / Filefix robots

Large file distribution hubs used robots where you could request:

* lists of available file areas
* subscriptions
* file indexes

You sent a netmail command like:

```text
%LIST
```

or

```text
%QUERY yast
```

to the robot address.

---

### 3. FILES.BBS indexes

Every BBS typically maintained a `FILES.BBS` text index.

Searching was usually done locally:

```bash
grep -i yast FILES.BBS
```

or through BBS search utilities.

---

### 4. Hubs carrying file echoes

Files propagated through rCLfile echoesrCY similarly to message echoes.

Examples:

* Linux distributions
* shareware
* drivers
* utilities

You searched the catalog distributed by the hub.

---

### 5. Modern surviving Fidonet tools

Some surviving systems expose searchable indexes via:

* FTP
* telnet BBS
* web gateways

Examples include:

* IFDC archives
* fsxNet gateways
* filegate mirrors

If you want, I can also explain:

* exact FREQ packet syntax
* how FrontDoor/BinkleyTerm handled searches
* how TIC files worked
* how people searched globally across many nodes in the 1990s
* surviving Fidonet file archives today

Q: Yes, now I remember some of it. I had forgotten :-)


Those systems had a very different feel from todayrCOs networks rCo highly decentralized, store-and-forward, and often surprisingly efficient over dial-up lines. FidoNet file distribution with FREQ, TIC files, file
echoes, and nightly mail events was quite elegant for the constraints of
the time.

A lot of people also remember:

* waiting for the mail hour
* ZModem transfers
* `FILES.BBS`
* node addresses like `2:341/14`
* tossing mail packets overnight
* hubs redistributing Linux CDs and shareware

The `magic names` feature was especially handy too:

```text id="gkkew9"
FREQ FILES
FREQ INDEX
FREQ NEW
```

where the remote system dynamically generated listings instead of
sending a literal file.

And some setups had searchable file databases through tools like:

* HPT
* FastEcho
* AllFix
* Tick processors
* RemoteAccess
* Maximus
* FrontDoor

A surprisingly sophisticated ecosystem considering much of it ran on DOS machines with a single phone line.

EfOe A lot of that old infrastructure was clever engineering born from scarcity rCo bandwidth, storage, phone costs, CPU time. Yet it enabled
global messaging and file distribution long before the modern Internet
became common.

Some Fidonet terminology still sounds wonderfully archaic today:

* echomail
* netmail
* tossing/scanning
* points and nodes
* crash mail
* SEAdog mailers
* TIC processors
* Areafix/Filefix

And despite the age, parts of FidoNet still exist. There are still
active nodes, telnet-accessible BBSes, and archives online preserving
echoes and file areas from decades ago.

---------++-
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

Or, we've just become lazy in our old age. I've worked with Unix
starting with Sixth Edition, and quite a few other Unix variants as
well as Unix-like systems over the years. As far as Linux I started
out with Slackware in the 1990s, abandoning Micro$oft and never
looking back. So I wouldn't say Linux is too difficult in my case.
However today I use Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out
of the box and I'm too damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.
--
Roger Blake
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:56:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

However today I use Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out
of the box and I'm too damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.

Technology is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Most car owners donrCOt want to look under their car bonnets, nor would
they understand what they would see if they did. Does that mean we
should sell cars with sealed bonnets?

No, because car owners want the freedom of choice of being able to
take their car for servicing to any garage they wish, not necessarily
one controlled by the car maker.

Same thing with software. Proprietary software is like a car with a
sealed bonnet, with insides only accessible to the software vendor.
Open-source software has a bonnet you can open, but that doesnrCOt mean
the end-user wants to: thatrCOs what computer experts are for.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:03:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Those systems had a very different feel from todayrCOs networks rCo highly decentralized, store-and-forward, and often surprisingly efficient over dial-up lines. FidoNet file distribution with FREQ, TIC files, file
echoes, and nightly mail events was quite elegant for the constraints of
the time.

I never used Fidonet. In the early '80s there were a couple of BBSs that I would dial into directly. Later I used Delphi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_(online_service)

Delphi provided local telephone number that would connect with a 2400 baud backbone so you weren't paying long distance fees. Compuserve was similar
but pricier. What became the Microsoft Developer Network lived on
Compuserve. I wasn't interested but a friend who wanted to work with
Windows 1.0 was on that service.

Delphi wasn't bad and eventually provided access to the Web but by then
I'd switched to a local ISP, so to speak. You paid your money, got a Unix shell on their server and a diskette with the Trumpet Winsock (MS didn't
have a TCP stack), TIA (The Internet Adapter) which was a SLIP (Serial
Line Internet Protocol) emulator, and Netscape 0.9. You were really
styling then. You also got enough disk space to build a website that had a public address, email. and usenet. It was two guys in the back of a golf
shop, very high tech.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:56:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

On 2026-05-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

Or, we've just become lazy in our old age. I've worked with Unix
starting with Sixth Edition, and quite a few other Unix variants as well
as Unix-like systems over the years. As far as Linux I started out with Slackware in the 1990s, abandoning Micro$oft and never looking back. So
I wouldn't say Linux is too difficult in my case. However today I use
Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out of the box and I'm too
damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users. Newbies
and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that bullshit before
you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time ago.'
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/15/26 20:42, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:56:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

However today I use Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out
of the box and I'm too damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.

Technology is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Most car owners donrCOt want to look under their car bonnets, nor would
they understand what they would see if they did. Does that mean we
should sell cars with sealed bonnets?

Sealed - NO ! But TRY to make things so Joe Average
will never un-seal it.

No, because car owners want the freedom of choice of being able to
take their car for servicing to any garage they wish, not necessarily
one controlled by the car maker.

Same thing with software. Proprietary software is like a car with a
sealed bonnet, with insides only accessible to the software vendor. Open-source software has a bonnet you can open, but that doesnrCOt mean
the end-user wants to: thatrCOs what computer experts are for.

Proprietary software ... sometimes you get what you
pay for, sometimes not. The Linux free software idea
is damned good for most people.

I've used SOME proprietary Linux software because the
free solutions either weren't there or 10 times the work
to do ANYTHING.

Linux is 'mature' now ... what used to require massive
tweaking based on shitty docs now tends to be smart and
automatic. It's the reason I first bought SUSE long
long back - it'd Just Work without wrist-slitting pain.

At the time there was RH and Slack ... and even 'simple'
stuff meant expert tweaks to a dozen obscure config
files or even re-compiles. NOT good, NOT fun, NOT
practical for the real world. Those were 'ego' systems,
so you could feel SO superior by doing those two dozen
weird tweaks. Oh, first update and all your work would
go away .....

I get big updates every few days for my Deb-derived
installs, Full Upgrades about every two weeks. Sorry,
but there's only SO much 'customization' I'm gonna
do to those boxes.

Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
USB drives were involved.

Looking into the BSDs more now ... even more Outside
The Norm. Ghost is nice, DragonFly is pretty nice
(but uses a custom file system). Free/Open/Net are
still good - but More Work. On the whole the BSDs
are even more secure than most any Linux. Odd selection
of apps though.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/15/26 21:38, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:03:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Those systems had a very different feel from todayrCOs networks rCo highly >> decentralized, store-and-forward, and often surprisingly efficient over
dial-up lines. FidoNet file distribution with FREQ, TIC files, file
echoes, and nightly mail events was quite elegant for the constraints of
the time.

I never used Fidonet. In the early '80s there were a couple of BBSs that I would dial into directly. Later I used Delphi.

Delphi was good.

Byte Magazine had a great tech site back in the day.

For awhile CompuServe had a BIG forum ... a rival
for usenet. Used to do that with a discrete dial-
up modem plugged into a dumb terminal, just for fun.
"ATTD ...."

Before that there were local BBS systems ... some
at just 300 baud (you could read the text as it
came in). Those were the start. PROPOSED using
TekTronics graphic terminal format for all-system
compatible graphics, a Java-esque idea, but they
never went for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_(online_service)

Delphi provided local telephone number that would connect with a 2400 baud backbone so you weren't paying long distance fees. Compuserve was similar
but pricier. What became the Microsoft Developer Network lived on
Compuserve. I wasn't interested but a friend who wanted to work with
Windows 1.0 was on that service.

Delphi wasn't bad and eventually provided access to the Web but by then
I'd switched to a local ISP, so to speak. You paid your money, got a Unix shell on their server and a diskette with the Trumpet Winsock (MS didn't
have a TCP stack), TIA (The Internet Adapter) which was a SLIP (Serial
Line Internet Protocol) emulator, and Netscape 0.9. You were really
styling then. You also got enough disk space to build a website that had a public address, email. and usenet. It was two guys in the back of a golf shop, very high tech.

Yea ... once proper Net access, usenet access, came along
those old proprietary systems/forums dried up VERY fast.
HTTP/CGI/PHP provided the all-systems compatibility.

Sort of a pity ... there was a lot of Good Stuff on those.

Hmmmm ... did anybody bother ARCHIVING those old BBSs
and forums ???

THINK I first got online with the BBSs using a VIC-20
with a crap modem. Some online stuff did exist in the
CP/M era, but it wasn't worth the effort yet.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/15/26 21:42, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:56:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

On 2026-05-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

Or, we've just become lazy in our old age. I've worked with Unix
starting with Sixth Edition, and quite a few other Unix variants as well
as Unix-like systems over the years. As far as Linux I started out with
Slackware in the 1990s, abandoning Micro$oft and never looking back. So
I wouldn't say Linux is too difficult in my case. However today I use
Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out of the box and I'm too
damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users. Newbies and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that bullshit before
you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time ago.'

I'm gonna generally agree ... MINT and a few others are
VERY user friendly. Even if you're 90 it ought to work
well enough out-of-the-box to get yer shit done.

Arch and Slack based ... those are more 'guru' systems.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users. Newbies and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that bullshit before
you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time ago.'

That pretty much sums it up.
--
Roger Blake
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 16 May 2026 00:46:05 -0400, c186282 wrote:

THINK I first got online with the BBSs using a VIC-20 with a crap
modem. Some online stuff did exist in the CP/M era, but it wasn't
worth the effort yet.

I'm having a senior moment. I remember having diskettes with ham software
and so forth for CP/M that weren't included in the Osborne package. How
did I get them? XMODEM? I don't remember ftp being used. Some things like
BDS C I bought and they would have come with floppies but there was a lot
of public domain stuff.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 16 May 2026 00:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

Most car owners donrCOt want to look under their car bonnets, nor would
they understand what they would see if they did. Does that mean we
should sell cars with sealed bonnets?

No, because car owners want the freedom of choice of being able to take
their car for servicing to any garage they wish, not necessarily one controlled by the car maker.

Considering I did a 35,000 mile oil change for the Toyota today a sealed bonnet would be a no go. When I bought my first Yaris in 2007 I checked
the engine in the showroom. I can reach down from the top to unscrew and replace the oil filter. The drain plug does require getting on the ground
but it is an easy reach.

Being a Toyota I've never had to do anything else except periodic air
filter replacements. That's easy to get to also.

That's my idea of freedom of choice. Of course manufacturers would like to take that away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_repair

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On 5/15/26 22:51, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 16 May 2026 00:46:05 -0400, c186282 wrote:

THINK I first got online with the BBSs using a VIC-20 with a crap
modem. Some online stuff did exist in the CP/M era, but it wasn't
worth the effort yet.

I'm having a senior moment. I remember having diskettes with ham software
and so forth for CP/M that weren't included in the Osborne package. How
did I get them? XMODEM? I don't remember ftp being used. Some things like
BDS C I bought and they would have come with floppies but there was a lot
of public domain stuff.

If you had been in the SF Bay area at that time you might have
gotten it via a booth selling stuff from FOG which was a Users Group
that had stacks of software. I was running a Commodore 64/128
which had a built-in CPM with whatever CPU would would run CPM
and being a curious sort with time on my hands went down to the
FOG HQ in Daley City and came away with a lot of stuff to try out.
MY first Dungeon Crawl came out of that package and from there
I went to Angband on the Amiga with 68000 cpu and a hard drive
in a plugin add-on chassis. The Amiga was slow enough that
cheats were easy so I got to look at all the monsters, far too many
of them. Still loved to play.

bliss
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:56:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
<rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-05-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It is clear that the older users need the training wheels.
Linux has simply become too difficult for them

Or, we've just become lazy in our old age. I've worked with Unix
starting with Sixth Edition, and quite a few other Unix variants as
well as Unix-like systems over the years. As far as Linux I started
out with Slackware in the 1990s, abandoning Micro$oft and never
looking back. So I wouldn't say Linux is too difficult in my case.
However today I use Linux Mint because most of it "just works" out
of the box and I'm too damn lazy to spend lots of time tinkering.

The first Linux version I used (I think Red Hat) was like ordinary
Unix in that it didn't automatically load a GUI. and it didn't have
this "sudo" nonsense. You either logged in as root, or as an ordinary
user. When it was like that, I enjoyed playing with it and exploring
its capabilities. Now I rarely use it unless something goes wrong with
Windows.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/16/26 01:31, Roger Blake wrote:

On 2026-05-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users. Newbies >> and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that bullshit before
you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time ago.'

That pretty much sums it up.

MINT and some others are indeed "user/newbie friendly".
What most people want/need, it's already configured
and smooth. Granny can do her web and web mail and
surf and play videos No Problems right Out-Of-The-Box.

This should be the default for ALL Linux distros
except maybe Slack (intended as a guru distro)

Still strongly rec MX ... best-balanced and smart.
Of late ALL of my boxes have become MX. Did have
a couple of Manjaro boxes, but the updates totally
crapped out, so ...

DO have OSuse and GhostBSD in VBox on one unit, but
that's running under the newest MX host. Had BAD
experience with F46 ... none of the update mechanisms,
GUI or CL, seemed to work right - always hung. Have
several mini-boxes, BMax and BeeLink, which are kinda
like cheap laptops. More than snappy enough for Linux.

(note that current, tariff, PRICES for those little boxes
has become kinda a bad deal. Hell, can't even get a PI-5
kit for less than like $250 USD right now. The 'fruity'
PI clones are also expensive and NOT 100% compatible. Did
buy a bare Pi-3 for a special project, but even that was
more expensive than anticipated). BBBs still seem kinda
'reasonable', but those are kinda weird. DO have a 10
relay add-on board for BBBs ... theoretically good for
a variety of automation projects I'll never get to. )

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-16 06:30, c186282 wrote:

-a Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
-a office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
-a annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
-a declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
-a and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
-a even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
-a USB drives were involved.

How do they handle that?

I know that if you add "nofail" to an fstab entry the boot system will
try to mount it but not halt the booting if it fails. On the other hand,
if it fails it will not tell you.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-16 06:46, c186282 wrote:

-a Hmmmm ... did anybody bother ARCHIVING those old BBSs
-a and forums ???

Some BBSs tried surviving for some time using telnet.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-16 03:38, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2026 20:03:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Those systems had a very different feel from todayrCOs networks rCo highly >> decentralized, store-and-forward, and often surprisingly efficient over
dial-up lines. FidoNet file distribution with FREQ, TIC files, file
echoes, and nightly mail events was quite elegant for the constraints of
the time.

I never used Fidonet. In the early '80s there were a couple of BBSs that I would dial into directly. Later I used Delphi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_(online_service)

Delphi provided local telephone number that would connect with a 2400 baud backbone so you weren't paying long distance fees. Compuserve was similar
but pricier. What became the Microsoft Developer Network lived on
Compuserve. I wasn't interested but a friend who wanted to work with
Windows 1.0 was on that service.

Delphi wasn't bad and eventually provided access to the Web but by then
I'd switched to a local ISP, so to speak. You paid your money, got a Unix shell on their server and a diskette with the Trumpet Winsock (MS didn't
have a TCP stack), TIA (The Internet Adapter) which was a SLIP (Serial
Line Internet Protocol) emulator, and Netscape 0.9. You were really
styling then. You also got enough disk space to build a website that had a public address, email. and usenet. It was two guys in the back of a golf shop, very high tech.

I Spain such systems did not flourish, even if they existed, because we
had to pay local phone calls by the minute. And it was not a trivial
cost. So we used systems that would minimize the call duration.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/16/26 02:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 06:30, c186282 wrote:

-a-a Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
-a-a office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
-a-a annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
-a-a declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
-a-a and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
-a-a even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
-a-a USB drives were involved.

How do they handle that?

That's the prob, they DON'T handle it. You have to
go into emergency terminal and edit fstab. Ugly !!!

I know that if you add "nofail" to an fstab entry the boot system will
try to mount it but not halt the booting if it fails. On the other hand,
if it fails it will not tell you.

Hmm, not SURE if 'nofail' works in RHEL/Centos/Fedora.

Might be worth a try ... but frankly I'm not going back
to that shit anytime soon.

USB drives - now WIDELY used - are indeed a problem.
Sometimes they attach quick and easy, sometimes not.
I expect the boot-up code to DEAL with iffy drives,
but in the RPM universe that's not a given. Maybe
they think they're "saving" us from something ? This
has been a LONG-standing issue.

Wrote/modified a "usb bus reset" app ... it kinda
emulates re-plugging all USB devices. Run it in
root crontab after maybe a 30 second delay.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-16 09:12, c186282 wrote:

On 5/16/26 02:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 06:30, c186282 wrote:

-a-a Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
-a-a office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
-a-a annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
-a-a declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
-a-a and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
-a-a even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
-a-a USB drives were involved.

How do they handle that?

-a That's the prob, they DON'T handle it. You have to
-a go into emergency terminal and edit fstab. Ugly !!!

No, I mean how Debs do it. What trick do they use to get that result.

I know that if you add "nofail" to an fstab entry the boot system will
try to mount it but not halt the booting if it fails. On the other
hand, if it fails it will not tell you.

-a Hmm, not SURE if 'nofail' works in RHEL/Centos/Fedora.

nofail is standard.

-a Might be worth a try ... but frankly I'm not going back
-a to that shit anytime soon.

-a USB drives - now WIDELY used - are indeed a problem.
-a Sometimes they attach quick and easy, sometimes not.
-a I expect the boot-up code to DEAL with iffy drives,
-a but in the RPM universe that's not a given. Maybe
-a they think they're "saving" us from something ? This
-a has been a LONG-standing issue.

-a Wrote/modified a "usb bus reset" app ... it kinda
-a emulates re-plugging all USB devices. Run it in
-a root crontab after maybe a 30 second delay.

I don't have problems with USB drives.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/05/2026 02:42, rbowman wrote:

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users. Newbies and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that bullshit before
you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time ago.'

Amen to that.

I spent a large part of my life struggling with operating systems,. Now
I just want to be a silver surfer. And code a little and design 3D prints...
--
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/05/2026 07:34, c186282 wrote:

MINT and some others are indeed "user/newbie friendly".
-a What most people want/need, it's already configured
-a and smooth. Granny can do her web and web mail and
-a surf and play videos No Problems right Out-Of-The-Box.

-a This should be the default for ALL Linux distros
-a except maybe Slack (intended as a guru distro)

Should? What a strange word to use. As if enforcement were possible...
--
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 15 May 2026 23:16:15 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

If you had been in the SF Bay area at that time you might have
gotten it via a booth selling stuff from FOG which was a Users Group
that had stacks of software.

Nope. I did go to the IEEE's computer SIG in Boston but they weren't
selling anything. I did find out about the Brief editor there and bought
it from the company. One of the hot topics was C with Classes, pros and
cons. The majority opinion was it was an unnecessary complication.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 5/16/26 03:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 09:12, c186282 wrote:

On 5/16/26 02:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 06:30, c186282 wrote:

-a-a Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
-a-a office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
-a-a annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
-a-a declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
-a-a and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
-a-a even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
-a-a USB drives were involved.

How do they handle that?

-a-a That's the prob, they DON'T handle it. You have to
-a-a go into emergency terminal and edit fstab. Ugly !!!

No, I mean how Debs do it. What trick do they use to get that result.

Not entirely sure ... but it's been the default
for decades. Nothing special IN fstab.

I know that if you add "nofail" to an fstab entry the boot system
will try to mount it but not halt the booting if it fails. On the
other hand, if it fails it will not tell you.

-a-a Hmm, not SURE if 'nofail' works in RHEL/Centos/Fedora.

nofail is standard.

Well, I got fails just a couple of weeks ago ...

-a-a Might be worth a try ... but frankly I'm not going back
-a-a to that shit anytime soon.

-a-a USB drives - now WIDELY used - are indeed a problem.
-a-a Sometimes they attach quick and easy, sometimes not.
-a-a I expect the boot-up code to DEAL with iffy drives,
-a-a but in the RPM universe that's not a given. Maybe
-a-a they think they're "saving" us from something ? This
-a-a has been a LONG-standing issue.

-a-a Wrote/modified a "usb bus reset" app ... it kinda
-a-a emulates re-plugging all USB devices. Run it in
-a-a root crontab after maybe a 30 second delay.

I don't have problems with USB drives.

Try putting them in fstab, then trying to boot
with the USB drives unplugged. A practical
experiment.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-05-17 05:35, c186282 wrote:

On 5/16/26 03:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 09:12, c186282 wrote:

On 5/16/26 02:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-05-16 06:30, c186282 wrote:

-a-a Used SUSE - now OpenSUSE - for a very long time, home,
-a-a office, office servers, because it was smarter. The ONE
-a-a annoyance was that it'll hang if fstab can't find a
-a-a declared drive whilst Deb derivs soon say "fuck it !"
-a-a and move on. Apparently this is STILL true for Fedora
-a-a even now, had that experience with F46 just a month ago,
-a-a USB drives were involved.

How do they handle that?

-a-a That's the prob, they DON'T handle it. You have to
-a-a go into emergency terminal and edit fstab. Ugly !!!

No, I mean how Debs do it. What trick do they use to get that result.

-a Not entirely sure ... but it's been the default
-a for decades. Nothing special IN fstab.

I know that if you add "nofail" to an fstab entry the boot system
will try to mount it but not halt the booting if it fails. On the
other hand, if it fails it will not tell you.

-a-a Hmm, not SURE if 'nofail' works in RHEL/Centos/Fedora.

nofail is standard.

-a Well, I got fails just a couple of weeks ago ...

I did not say that nofail is the default. I said that it is standard, ie, it works the same in all distros, it is a standard option.

-a-a Might be worth a try ... but frankly I'm not going back
-a-a to that shit anytime soon.

-a-a USB drives - now WIDELY used - are indeed a problem.
-a-a Sometimes they attach quick and easy, sometimes not.
-a-a I expect the boot-up code to DEAL with iffy drives,
-a-a but in the RPM universe that's not a given. Maybe
-a-a they think they're "saving" us from something ? This
-a-a has been a LONG-standing issue.

-a-a Wrote/modified a "usb bus reset" app ... it kinda
-a-a emulates re-plugging all USB devices. Run it in
-a-a root crontab after maybe a 30 second delay.

I don't have problems with USB drives.

-a Try putting them in fstab, then trying to boot
-a with the USB drives unplugged. A practical
-a experiment.

I have done that.

/etc/crypttab:
cr_my_book /dev/disk/by-partlabel/My_Book /home/cer/Keys/the_hoard_keyfile auto,nofail


/etc/fstab:
/dev/mapper/cr_my_book /data/My_Book xfs user,lazytime,exec,nofail 1 2




/etc/crypttab:

cr_raid_xfs /dev/md/raid6ArrayXFSRaw /home/cer/Keys/the_hoard_keyfile auto,nofail


/etc/fstab:
/dev/mapper/cr_raid_xfs /data/xfsRaid/ xfs lazytime,nofail,exec 1 3


And it is a big raid setup, encrypted.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-05-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Mint and similar distros may have a bimodal distribution of users.
Newbies and graybeards who are silently thinking 'I did all that
bullshit before you were born, kid. The thrill wore off a long time
ago.'

That pretty much sums it up.

Yep, and that was basically my point in the other thread about no
longer compiling custom kernels. Even though this box would likely
finish a full compile in significantly less time than it took on my
original i386 circa 1992-1994, the fact that doing so does not feel
like it delivers any specific benefit anymore means I quit doing so.

I think the last time I /did/ do a kernel compile to rebuild it
specific for the machine it was running on was sometime in the Pentium 3
era. And even then, the result did not appear to be much faster or
more responsive than the standard kernel that Slackware supplied.

In many ways it is very much a "Been there, done that" situation.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 16/05/2026 07:34, c186282 wrote:

MINT and some others are indeed "user/newbie friendly".
-a What most people want/need, it's already configured
-a and smooth. Granny can do her web and web mail and
-a surf and play videos No Problems right Out-Of-The-Box.

-a This should be the default for ALL Linux distros
-a except maybe Slack (intended as a guru distro)

Should? What a strange word to use. As if enforcement were possible...

Not only that, but if "all distros" were "just like MINT" then they
would all effectively *be* MINT, and folks would lose their choice of
what they want to use.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/05/2026 16:42, Rich wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 16/05/2026 07:34, c186282 wrote:

MINT and some others are indeed "user/newbie friendly".
-a What most people want/need, it's already configured
-a and smooth. Granny can do her web and web mail and
-a surf and play videos No Problems right Out-Of-The-Box.

-a This should be the default for ALL Linux distros
-a except maybe Slack (intended as a guru distro)

Should? What a strange word to use. As if enforcement were possible...

Not only that, but if "all distros" were "just like MINT" then they
would all effectively *be* MINT, and folks would lose their choice of
what they want to use.

Even better point.
--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2