On 5/9/26 16:12, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 14:38:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 5/9/26 13:46, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:We can assume that everything Trump does is to keep the Epstein
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:58:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like >>>>>> buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading >>>>>> Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps >>>>> more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes >>>>> back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
It doesn't hurt that it also pushed Jeffrey Epstein off the front page. >>>>
files unpublicized. Release of the UAP files, the attack on Iran,
all the nonsense that come out of his mouth all to avoid EF.
Considering the Biden administration sat on them too I can only conclude
short eyes and hobnobbing with Mossad agents is a bipartisan activity.
Well deviant behavior is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to downplay the Mossad contacts.
That's the difference between a paid developer in a company and a
FOSS developer. The paid developer is paid to do what the company
pays him for. And the company cares about the consumer's needs (ie:
end users) for obvious reasons.
Laicolasse:~ # rpm -qa | grep -i yast
On 2026-05-09 18:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:46:21 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
"yast" produces the TUI. yast2 produces the GUI. yast is a symlink to
yast2.
You are correct that yast is a symlink to yast2. 'sudo yast' and 'sudo
yast2' on Leap 16 produce the same TUI. I believe the problems with
Ruby 3.4 that caused yast to be dropped from Leap 16 may be the
problem.
No, I tried precisely on 16.0. yast2 produces the GUI for me. But I am
on X, no wayland. Using XFCE, or "ssh -X ..."
On 5/9/26 03:02, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 04-05-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a |-crit-a:No but Wayland was started with assurances that it would be
Just make X great again.
As always, big mouth. Just, like it's easy. But you can't help because
it's too difficult for you.
What do you believe? That people abandoning X11 were stopping
maintaining it because they were obeying Red Hat? That people starting
Wayland from scratch were doing it just to piss off you and your kind?
complete replacement for X but it ain't. Still lacks functions that X supports.
If they fix Wayland more people will come.
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:58:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading
Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps
more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes
back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
In article <M2NLR.1211145$Zve6.785275@fx18.iad>,
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:58:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading
Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps
more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes
back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
It doesn't hurt that it also pushed Jeffrey Epstein off the front page.
The best explanation is that he started the Iran war to distract from Epstein, but then that turned out so badly, that he sent his wife out to
make a speach about Epstein, in order to distract (back) from Iran.
We can assume that everything Trump does is to keep the Epstein
files unpublicized. Release of the UAP files, the attack on Iran,
all the nonsense that come out of his mouth all to avoid EF.
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles (including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 5/9/26 16:12, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 14:38:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 5/9/26 13:46, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:We can assume that everything Trump does is to keep the Epstein
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:58:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like >>>>>>> buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading >>>>>>> Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps >>>>>> more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes >>>>>> back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
It doesn't hurt that it also pushed Jeffrey Epstein off the front page. >>>>>
files unpublicized. Release of the UAP files, the attack on Iran,
all the nonsense that come out of his mouth all to avoid EF.
Considering the Biden administration sat on them too I can only conclude >>> short eyes and hobnobbing with Mossad agents is a bipartisan activity.
Well deviant behavior is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles (including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:15:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/05/2026 04:31, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 21:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:Not any more. 4 parities are now in play with scottish welsh
The UK and some others have LOTS of parties,
which mostly seem aimed at keeping the main two in charge - places >>>> to safely drain-off the 'nutter' votes.
'nationalist'
parties taking up considerable votes as well..
And the fascists and neo Nazi racists have entirely taken over the green
party, and are busy calling everyone else fascists and racists, of
course...
What flavor of racism? Are they opposed to Mohammed becoming the most
popular boys' name in Scotland or the JNF-UK? It used to be a lot easier
to figure out what a fascist or racist was.
Not quite so obvious. The only consumer's need that the company
cares about is the need to give the company more money. Giving
the consumer what he wants is one way - but there are other,
more effective ways, ranging from shiny but useless glitz to
establishing a monopoly.
On 5/9/26 03:02, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 04-05-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a |-crit :
Just make X great again.
As always, big mouth. Just, like it's easy. But you can't help
because it's too difficult for you.
What do you believe? That people abandoning X11 were stopping
maintaining it because they were obeying Red Hat? That people
starting Wayland from scratch were doing it just to piss off you
and your kind?
No but Wayland was started with assurances that it would be complete replacement for X but it ain't. Still lacks functions that X
supports.
If they fix Wayland more people will come.
On 2026-05-07, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Wasn't that intimately familiar with [WindowsrCO] architecture but I
One idea that is *not* coming back is the one that says that the
GUI should be inextricably tied into the OS kernel.
The rest of us are happy to leave that sort of thing in a museum.
suppose that makes sense, and probably explains why the entire
system would cack itself over GUI issues.
What do I, as a USER, get to be able to do with Wayland that I can't
do now?
Users have to be free to use, abuse and do wierd things, that is how innovation occurs.
On 09/05/2026 18:26, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:15:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/05/2026 04:31, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 21:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:Not any more. 4 parities are now in play with scottish welsh
The UK and some others have LOTS of parties,
which mostly seem aimed at keeping the main two in charge - places >>>>> to safely drain-off the 'nutter' votes.
'nationalist'
parties taking up considerable votes as well..
And the fascists and neo Nazi racists have entirely taken over the green >>> party, and are busy calling everyone else fascists and racists, of
course...
What flavor of racism? Are they opposed to Mohammed becoming the most
popular boys' name in Scotland or the JNF-UK? It used to be a lot easier
to figure out what a fascist or racist was.
Racists are people who hate other people based on race. In this case if
they are white, christian or Jewish.
Fascism is espousing a form of government in which no one opposes (your racism).
I've created some admittedly small FOSS programs, but public
nevertheless. I *always* consider the end user. Programs I write for
myself, I keep to myself.
On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:55:57 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Users have to be free to use, abuse and do wierd things, that is how
innovation occurs.
That requires active users who are suitably self-sufficient, able to understand the software theyrCOre using, tweak it, patch it etc. And
maybe contribute their patches for others to share.
In other words, not the kind of users you get too often on these
online forums, who complain about conspiracies and about developers
making changes that *they* donrCOt particularly care for, and often
express outright rabid hate for certain software projects (like
Wayland and systemd). But cannot really offer any suitable
alternative.
In short, innovation comes from the doers, not from the armchair
critics.
Well the question is, what does Wayland give me, that X11 does not?
On 2026-05-09, St|-phane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
That's the difference between a paid developer in a company and a FOSS
developer. The paid developer is paid to do what the company pays him
for. And the company cares about the consumer's needs (ie: end users)
for obvious reasons.
Not quite so obvious. The only consumer's need that the company
cares about is the need to give the company more money. Giving
the consumer what he wants is one way - but there are other,
more effective ways, ranging from shiny but useless glitz to
establishing a monopoly.
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
I kind of agree. I actually didn't like it much when I first
started using it, seemed... inefficient, some unecessary overhead.
However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow. I think
the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around,
but how disruptive the replacement is.
Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant
system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to
have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered
view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user
needs/feedback.
Spot on. You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil
use things. People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
problems, to use technology. They'll invent workflows and use cases and
programs you never thought of. And this is GOOD.
Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
https://xkcd.com/1172/
The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the
systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things
that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable".
An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a
specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected.
And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally
were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need.
On 5/9/26 03:02, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 04-05-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a |-crit-a:
Just make X great again.
As always, big mouth. Just, like it's easy. But you can't help because
it's too difficult for you.
What do you believe? That people abandoning X11 were stopping
maintaining it because they were obeying Red Hat? That people starting
Wayland from scratch were doing it just to piss off you and your kind?
No but Wayland was started with assurances that it would be
complete replacement for X but it ain't. Still lacks functions that
X supports.
If they fix Wayland more people will come.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-08, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 12:56:46 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-07, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2026 12:59:57 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
If there is one thing I'm sure of, is that eventually what has
been considered "osbsolete, old and outdated" will come back
again ...
One idea that is *not* coming back is the one that says that the
GUI should be inextricably tied into the OS kernel.
The rest of us are happy to leave that sort of thing in a museum.
Was that ever a widely used idea?
There was this system called rCLMicrosoft WindowsrCY. You may have heard of
it.
I've heard complaints about it...
Wasn't that intimately familiar with its architecture but I suppose that >>> makes sense, and probably explains why the entire system would cack
itself over GUI issues.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_NT#/media/File:Windows_2000_architecture.svg>
Lawrence isn't familiar with the architecture either.
Nor am I (familiar with the architecture of the Windows NT family, and
IrCOd regard it as a minor success if I stayed that way), but that diagram does show GDI and the window manager running in kernel mode. Although rCLinextricablyrCY above doesnrCOt sound right since apparently they were user
mode components in NT 3.5 and I hear that a lot of the more modern stuff
runs in user mode at least since Vista.
On Sat, 9 May 2026 22:02:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Laicolasse:~ # rpm -qa | grep -i yast
ItrCOs been a few years since I sat in front of an RPM-based system
(SuSE), but couldnrCOt this be written
rpm -qa name='*yast*'
?
<https://manpages.debian.org/rpm(8)>
On 09/05/2026 18:14, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:58:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading
Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps
more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes
back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
Yeah., We can blame America on the bloody Brits. they started it.
EVERYBODY has something on Trump. He doesn't care.
On 10/05/2026 00:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles
(including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
Let's face it, when you have money, you don't need a moral compass.
On Sat, 9 May 2026 22:02:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-05-09 18:42, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:46:21 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
"yast" produces the TUI. yast2 produces the GUI. yast is a symlink to
yast2.
You are correct that yast is a symlink to yast2. 'sudo yast' and 'sudo
yast2' on Leap 16 produce the same TUI. I believe the problems with
Ruby 3.4 that caused yast to be dropped from Leap 16 may be the
problem.
No, I tried precisely on 16.0. yast2 produces the GUI for me. But I am
on X, no wayland. Using XFCE, or "ssh -X ..."
I am on X11 in the VM. You have a lot more yasr2 stuff than I got with
'sudo zypper install yast2'. Myrlyn shows all the additional packages but I'm not interested enough to figure out what else zypper should have
pulled. It did get a lot of ruby 3.4 stuff.
On 2026-05-09, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
I kind of agree. I actually didn't like it much when I first
started using it, seemed... inefficient, some unecessary overhead.
However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow. I think
the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around, >>>>> but how disruptive the replacement is.
Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant
system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to
have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered
view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user
needs/feedback.
Spot on. You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil >>> use things. People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
problems, to use technology. They'll invent workflows and use cases and >>> programs you never thought of. And this is GOOD.
Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
https://xkcd.com/1172/
The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the
systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things
that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable".
An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a
specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected.
And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally
were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need.
I don't quite get the point the xkcd is trying to make...
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me a particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source. It to
me, correlated with a pariticular political style, but I won't go into
that. It shows a lack of imagination and a desire for control and
software that is created with that mindset, in particular, software like Wayland, will come out hobbled and the opposite if what the tinkerer/hobbyist/developer community needs.
On 5/9/26 18:40, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_NT#/media/File:Windows_2000_architecture.svg>
Lawrence isn't familiar with the architecture either.
Nor am I (familiar with the architecture of the Windows NT family,
and
IrCOd regard it as a minor success if I stayed that way), but that diagram >> does show GDI and the window manager running in kernel mode. Although
rCLinextricablyrCY above doesnrCOt sound right since apparently they were user
mode components in NT 3.5 and I hear that a lot of the more modern stuff
runs in user mode at least since Vista.
There was a huge to-do about Win NT 4.0 allowing third party graphics
drivers direct access to the kernel. Back then the concern was more
about stability, blue screen of death, than it was about security.
AIUI, kernel access was granted in Win NT 4.0 because of poor games
graphics performance in Win NT 3.5. I guess they worked out how to
achieve good user mode performance in later releases.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 18:14, rbowman wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading
Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps
more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes
back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
Yeah., We can blame America on the bloody Brits. they started it.
EVERYBODY has something on Trump. He doesn't care.
I enjoyed King Charles during his recent visit to the U.S. Trump tried
to take sole credit for winning WWII by proclaiming, "If it wasn't for
us, you'd be speaking German." The King responded, "If it wasn't for
us, you'd be speaking French."
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
Now, I have no idea about KiCad. I'm not using it. But it looks like
any time anyone want to tell Wayland is not ready, it looks like
it's the only program in the world that Wayland breaks. As I have no
need for it, I don't know if their reasons are good or not. What I
know is that in a broad picture: I hate when a program decides it
should change the space I told it to take. So, I'm far from sure I
would like it's expectation to be fulfilled.
I enjoyed King Charles during his recent visit to the U.S. Trump
tried to take sole credit for winning WWII by proclaiming, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German." The King responded, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French."
I've seen people do cool things just with MS Access, or VB, or
Excel, really stretching what can be done to solve a business
problem.
However the software itself does matter. If the software is designed
to be its own self-contained universe, to be used only the way the
designed intended, then it limits potential. Windows is terrible in
this regard
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me
a particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source.
The laptop was just upgraded from 15.6 days ago, while the VM was
installed fresh. Thus the laptop inherited YaST.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 20:09:42 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The laptop was just upgraded from 15.6 days ago, while the VM was
installed fresh. Thus the laptop inherited YaST.
fwiw I did a bare metal install of Leap 16 KDE/Plasma and only got
Myrlyn.
It was an interesting Sunday. I had applied updates to the Endeavour box
and got kernel 7.0.5. I don't know if that was the only problem but the
box wouldn't boot. Screwed around with a live thumbdrive, chrood,
installed earlier kernel, did the dracut stuff. No joy.
By then I was pissed, didn't have too much to lose and decided to install Leap 16 since I had the offline iso. Copied it to the Ventory stick and
gave it several tries. Spoiler alert: OpenSUSE does not work with Ventoy.
Created a straight thumb drive on Ubuntu. No joy. Found I had to enable
UEFI. That got me further. Forgot configuration is a bit obscure with
SUSE. Screwed up and got a tty install, no DE.
Try again after checking the KDE box. The installation threw some errors about checksums and said if I continued it might not boot. I did and it didn't.
Try again with Xfce. Got a screen split between the laptop and it wouldn't let me log in.
Try again with KDE. It bitched about a qt5 library but installed and rebooted. It seems to be working although where stuff winds up on either
the laptop or the external monitor is a bit weird. The mouse cursor leads
me to believe it's treating them as one big screen.
It's systemd/x11 so I can piss both camps off.
Ummm ... has anyone noticed that installing most any Linux or the
basics for it has become much more difficult the past few years ???
On Sun, 10 May 2026 20:09:42 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The laptop was just upgraded from 15.6 days ago, while the VM was
installed fresh. Thus the laptop inherited YaST.
fwiw I did a bare metal install of Leap 16 KDE/Plasma and only got
Myrlyn.
It was an interesting Sunday. I had applied updates to the Endeavour box
and got kernel 7.0.5. I don't know if that was the only problem but the
box wouldn't boot. Screwed around with a live thumbdrive, chrood,
installed earlier kernel, did the dracut stuff. No joy.
By then I was pissed, didn't have too much to lose and decided to install Leap 16 since I had the offline iso. Copied it to the Ventory stick and
gave it several tries. Spoiler alert: OpenSUSE does not work with Ventoy.
Created a straight thumb drive on Ubuntu. No joy. Found I had to enable
UEFI. That got me further. Forgot configuration is a bit obscure with
SUSE. Screwed up and got a tty install, no DE.
Try again after checking the KDE box. The installation threw some errors about checksums and said if I continued it might not boot. I did and it didn't.
Try again with Xfce. Got a screen split between the laptop and it wouldn't let me log in.
Try again with KDE. It bitched about a qt5 library but installed and rebooted. It seems to be working although where stuff winds up on either
the laptop or the external monitor is a bit weird. The mouse cursor leads
me to believe it's treating them as one big screen.
It's systemd/x11 so I can piss both camps off.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 01:03:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Ummm ... has anyone noticed that installing most any Linux or the
basics for it has become much more difficult the past few years ???
Endeavour had been working well so I never looked under the hood. Grub?
Ain't no stinking grub. It's all dracut and systemd-boot. Searching
through the forums etc yielded a wealth of information about grub.
The real time waster was SUSE does not work with Ventoy. I finally found a blog where the guy mentioned that in passing.
Then there was UEFI. I'd
turned it off for EOS but apparently SUSE needs it.
As far as the checksum--
thing that may have been some transient error.
I suppose things have been going too smoothly for too long. The good part
is I didn't have enough project data on the laptop to worry about.
On 2026-05-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 18:26, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 12:15:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/05/2026 04:31, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 21:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:Not any more. 4 parities are now in play with scottish welsh
The UK and some others have LOTS of parties,
which mostly seem aimed at keeping the main two in charge - places >>>>>> to safely drain-off the 'nutter' votes.
'nationalist'
parties taking up considerable votes as well..
And the fascists and neo Nazi racists have entirely taken over the green >>>> party, and are busy calling everyone else fascists and racists, of
course...
What flavor of racism? Are they opposed to Mohammed becoming the most
popular boys' name in Scotland or the JNF-UK? It used to be a lot easier >>> to figure out what a fascist or racist was.
Racists are people who hate other people based on race. In this case if
they are white, christian or Jewish.
Fascism is espousing a form of government in which no one opposes (your
racism).
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion of
other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
On 2026-05-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 00:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles
(including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
Let's face it, when you have money, you don't need a moral compass.
Money _is_ the moral compass for those people.
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 18:14, rbowman wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading >>>>> Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or, perhaps >>>> more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking mess goes >>>> back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
Yeah., We can blame America on the bloody Brits. they started it.
EVERYBODY has something on Trump. He doesn't care.
I enjoyed King Charles during his recent visit to the U.S. Trump tried
to take sole credit for winning WWII by proclaiming, "If it wasn't for
us, you'd be speaking German." The King responded, "If it wasn't for
us, you'd be speaking French."
Sole credit is a bit much but WWII would certainly have gone rather differently without US involvement, and personally IrCOm grateful for the American support.
Ummm ... has anyone noticed that installing most any Linux
-a or the basics for it has become much more difficult the past
-a few years ???
-a What's going on ?
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 13:10:59 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me
a particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source.
Feel free to point out examples of such a mentality in any open-source project. Because in my experience, quite the opposite is true:
open-source developers tend to have almost an obsession with
completism (is there such a word?) -- including functionality because
it seems to fit naturally into the conception, not necessarily because
it will be a popular feature.
For example, GIMP has the scripting developer console function
built-in, not as some extra-cost addon. So you can open this and
directly experiment with image-manipulation commands interactively, in
either Python or Guile.
Imagine wanting to do something like this in Photoshop -- not a
chance. Not now or ever. Because providing such a function would
impinge on the market for extra-cost addons.
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
I kind of agree. I actually didn't like it much when I first
started using it, seemed... inefficient, some unecessary overhead. >>>>>>
However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow. I think
the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around, >>>>>> but how disruptive the replacement is.
Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant
system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to
have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered >>>>> view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user
needs/feedback.
Spot on. You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil >>>> use things. People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
problems, to use technology. They'll invent workflows and use cases and >>>> programs you never thought of. And this is GOOD.
Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
https://xkcd.com/1172/
The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the
systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things
that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable". >>> An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a
specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected. >>> And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally
were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need.
I don't quite get the point the xkcd is trying to make...
It is an extreme version of the API acces statement of: "any
undocumented aspect of your API will eventually be discovered, and
relied upon, by someone, such that if you change this aspect, someone's workflow will be disrupted and complain".
The XKCD used a bug as the "undocumented aspect" but the same thing
happens with things as simple as: version 1 of API just happens to
return keys in ASCII sorted order, but the documentation is slient as
to any specific order for the returning keys. Some change is made to
the server behind the API, such that the happenstance of ASCII sorted
order for keys in the API return bundle no longer apples, and keys now return in an arbitrary order (not 'random' per. se., but no longer
"ASCII sorted" either). But, the fact that, pre bug-fix, the API
happened to always return in ASCII sorted order *will* have been relied
upon by someone (or more than one 'someone'), despite the actual documentation being silent, such that post bug fix, someone(s) will
complain that the keys are no longer returning in ASCII sorted order
and their code is now badly broken.
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me a
particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source. It to
me, correlated with a pariticular political style, but I won't go into
that. It shows a lack of imagination and a desire for control and
software that is created with that mindset, in particular, software like
Wayland, will come out hobbled and the opposite if what the
tinkerer/hobbyist/developer community needs.
It's a "dictatorial" mindset: you will use what I give you, in the
manner I specify, and be happy with it, or else you can go f**k
yourself. The systemd/wayland/gnome crowd has become a magnet for this personality type.
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin, which was
then laundered into "scientist say".
To the layperson, this seems like he found an argument, but it was just
a political position. Science does not prove that race exists or does
not exist. All of the levels of taxonomy, whether "species" or "class"
or "genus" or "order" are not proven to exist or not. They are categorisations that are useful for grouping, categorisations which have predictive and explanatory power.
Simply put, if there is a categorsation which is explanatory power, that
is to say, using these terms or groupings can actually describe common features, lineage and ancestry, then that categorisation is therefore
useful.
Lewontin just did some stupid argument to "prove" it doens't exist, when biology doesn't work that way.
To prove that "race desn't exist", you would need to demonstrate that
the categorisations are meaningless, but he couldn't do that. So he
used mixed peoples to come up with some math that proves. Well nothing.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
On Sun, 10 May 2026 13:01:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
I've seen people do cool things just with MS Access, or VB, or
Excel, really stretching what can be done to solve a business
problem.
However the software itself does matter. If the software is designed
to be its own self-contained universe, to be used only the way the
designed intended, then it limits potential. Windows is terrible in
this regard
And now you get into whether the software base on which the user is
building their ingenious solutions is facilitating that ingenuity, or hindering it.
As you said, Windows is terrible, as indeed is most proprietary
software (I would include the Microsoft products you mentioned above).
As you try pushing its boundaries, sooner or later you hit limits
which are there not because of lack of imagination on the part of the developers, but because it would be counter to their business model to
give you more functionality in that direction without making you pay
more money.
Open-source software, pretty much by definition, cannot suffer from
this problem. If a piece of said software had such a problem, somebody
would see it as a bug and publish a fix.
Default install on Leap 16 is now a minimal text mode. You have to
choose a desktop.
On 10/05/2026 18:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:An interesting perspective. I will ponder that. Very Dickensian.
On 10/05/2026 00:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles
(including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
Let's face it, when you have money, you don't need a moral compass.
Money _is_ the moral compass for those people.
'Poverty is a crime punishable by deportation'.
And Lo! There was Australia..
On 10/05/2026 22:54, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:Less support than self interest.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 18:14, rbowman wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like >>>>>> buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even
invading Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans
dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or,
perhaps more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking >>>>> mess goes back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
Yeah., We can blame America on the bloody Brits. they started it.
EVERYBODY has something on Trump. He doesn't care.
I enjoyed King Charles during his recent visit to the U.S. Trump
tried to take sole credit for winning WWII by proclaiming, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German." The King responded, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French."
Sole credit is a bit much but WWII would certainly have gone rather
differently without US involvement, and personally IrCOm grateful for the
American support.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
On Mon, 11 May 2026 01:03:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Ummm ... has anyone noticed that installing most any Linux or the
basics for it has become much more difficult the past few years ???
Endeavour had been working well so I never looked under the hood. Grub?
Ain't no stinking grub. It's all dracut and systemd-boot. Searching
through the forums etc yielded a wealth of information about grub.
The real time waster was SUSE does not work with Ventoy. I finally found a blog where the guy mentioned that in passing. Then there was UEFI. I'd
turned it off for EOS but apparently SUSE needs it. As far as the checksum thing that may have been some transient error.
I suppose things have been going too smoothly for too long. The good part
is I didn't have enough project data on the laptop to worry about.
On 11/05/2026 06:03, c186282 wrote:
Ummm ... has anyone noticed that installing most any Linux
-a or the basics for it has become much more difficult the past few
-a years ???
-a What's going on ?
They aren't installing Linux Mint?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 12:11:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/05/2026 18:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:An interesting perspective. I will ponder that. Very Dickensian.
On 10/05/2026 00:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread? Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles
(including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
Let's face it, when you have money, you don't need a moral compass.
Money _is_ the moral compass for those people.
'Poverty is a crime punishable by deportation'.
And Lo! There was Australia..
While the COE isn't Calvinist I think the Presbyterians and other Reformed dissenters left their mark on Britain and the US. You're either damned to hell or not and there isn't much you can do about it. If you're rich
you're obviously favored by God. If you're poor you're going to hell. Too bad, so sad, but why waste resources on the hell bound?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 12:12:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/05/2026 22:54, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:Less support than self interest.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 18:14, rbowman wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like >>>>>>> buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even
invading Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans
dead.
Even worse he started it to make his buddy Netanyahu happy or,
perhaps more accurately, Miriam Adelson. Of course the whole fucking >>>>>> mess goes back to the Brits making Chaim Weizmann happy.
Yeah., We can blame America on the bloody Brits. they started it.
EVERYBODY has something on Trump. He doesn't care.
I enjoyed King Charles during his recent visit to the U.S. Trump
tried to take sole credit for winning WWII by proclaiming, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German." The King responded, "If it
wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French."
Sole credit is a bit much but WWII would certainly have gone rather
differently without US involvement, and personally IrCOm grateful for the >>> American support.
War is good for bidness. A lot of unpleasantness could have been avoided
had Wilson remained neutral and let the Europeans sort their problems out
in WWI.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:As every advert warning us about prostate cancer repeats.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
The recent furor over redistricting points out "Lewontin's fallacy". You can't simultaneously create districts based on the skin color of the residents and say that the skin color doesn't matter. Call it 'race' or whatever you want there are genetic and behavioral differences when
examining populations.
<https://get.opensuse.org/leap/16.0/> -> Download -> How to create a
bootable USB stick on Linux.
<https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick> <Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows> <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_macOS>
There you have the supported methods for creating the USB stick.
Then there was UEFI. I'd turned it off for EOS but apparently SUSE
needs it.
That would be new. Leap 15.x did support BIOS machines.
On 10/05/2026 18:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:An interesting perspective.-a I will ponder that. Very Dickensian.
On 10/05/2026 00:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Well deviant behaviour is widespread and likely the FBI wanted to
downplay the Mossad contacts.
Widespread?-a Heck, I suspect it's almost mandatory in those circles
(including IOC, FIFA, etc....).
Let's face it, when you have money, you don't need a moral compass.
Money _is_ the moral compass for those people.
'Poverty is a crime punishable by deportation'.
And Lo! There was Australia..
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin, which was
then laundered into "scientist say".
To the layperson, this seems like he found an argument, but it was just
a political position. Science does not prove that race exists or does
not exist. All of the levels of taxonomy, whether "species" or "class"
or "genus" or "order" are not proven to exist or not. They are categorisations that are useful for grouping, categorisations which have predictive and explanatory power.
Simply put, if there is a categorsation which is explanatory power, that
is to say, using these terms or groupings can actually describe common features, lineage and ancestry, then that categorisation is therefore
useful.
Lewontin just did some stupid argument to "prove" it doens't exist, when biology doesn't work that way.
To prove that "race desn't exist", you would need to demonstrate that
the categorisations are meaningless, but he couldn't do that. So he
used mixed peoples to come up with some math that proves. Well nothing.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
-a-a-a-aThen USA depends on a-a lot of the rest of the planet for various things like coffee, chocolate, champaign and Scotch Whiskey. But
we depend on sales to those other places of a lot of our products like machine tools, wheat and soy.
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict users
more and more. GNOME 2 and 3 seemed to have less configurability than
their predecessor. Its been a while since I've used it, but I recall
having to install an extension, to make configuration changes that with
GNOME 1 I could do as is. I was a GNOME user and stopped specifically
for this reason.
-a-a-a-aThe idea of race is the confusion.-a Race was invented by the European
settlers of the Americas when they encountered people of markedly different skin color.
Before that Europeans did not describe themselves as belongingNot white specifically.
to a White Race.
But once they got to the New World they had-a people with
out the same religion to be reduced to slavery despite the efforts of Popes and Kings to point out that these people of color where as human as themselves.
-a-a-a-aWe fought the Revolutionary War in North America because we
wanted to take over the lands of the Native American Tribes therein
resident who subsisted by farming and hunting and the Government of the
UK wanted rapprochment with those NA Tribes for the sake of trading
and eventual incorporation into the Empire.-a So did the French and the Spanish despite the words of Kings and Pope wanted to enslave the
people in the territories that they occupied.
-a-a-a-aSlavery was the basis of Wealth in the North American colonies
of the UK so despite the proclamation in our Declaration of Independence
of universal equality, the Constitution maintained slavery for 60+ years until parts of the new nation murdered each other to free the African descended slaves of the Southern States.
On 2026-05-10, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
I kind of agree. I actually didn't like it much when I first
started using it, seemed... inefficient, some unecessary overhead. >>>>>>>
However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow. I think >>>>>>> the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around, >>>>>>> but how disruptive the replacement is.
Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant
system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to >>>>>> have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered >>>>>> view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user >>>>>> needs/feedback.
Spot on. You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil >>>>> use things. People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
problems, to use technology. They'll invent workflows and use cases and >>>>> programs you never thought of. And this is GOOD.
Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
https://xkcd.com/1172/
The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the
systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things >>>> that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable". >>>> An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a
specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected. >>>> And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally
were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need. >>>>
I don't quite get the point the xkcd is trying to make...
It is an extreme version of the API acces statement of: "any
undocumented aspect of your API will eventually be discovered, and
relied upon, by someone, such that if you change this aspect, someone's
workflow will be disrupted and complain".
The XKCD used a bug as the "undocumented aspect" but the same thing
happens with things as simple as: version 1 of API just happens to
return keys in ASCII sorted order, but the documentation is slient as
to any specific order for the returning keys. Some change is made to
the server behind the API, such that the happenstance of ASCII sorted
order for keys in the API return bundle no longer apples, and keys now
return in an arbitrary order (not 'random' per. se., but no longer
"ASCII sorted" either). But, the fact that, pre bug-fix, the API
happened to always return in ASCII sorted order *will* have been relied
upon by someone (or more than one 'someone'), despite the actual
documentation being silent, such that post bug fix, someone(s) will
complain that the keys are no longer returning in ASCII sorted order
and their code is now badly broken.
I get that, but if its undocumented its not an intentional feature, so
yes, it makes sense in that context. I was more referring to features
which are documented, but which may seem to not be useful or required
(such as, placing a new window at a specific coordinate)
... They'll invent workflows and use cases and programs you never
thought of.
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me a
particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source. It to
me, correlated with a pariticular political style, but I won't go into
that. It shows a lack of imagination and a desire for control and
software that is created with that mindset, in particular, software like >>> Wayland, will come out hobbled and the opposite if what the
tinkerer/hobbyist/developer community needs.
It's a "dictatorial" mindset: you will use what I give you, in the
manner I specify, and be happy with it, or else you can go f**k
yourself. The systemd/wayland/gnome crowd has become a magnet for this
personality type.
When I used an Apple MacBook for work, I was shoked at how little I
could change about the GUI. There were only two shades of highlight,
blue or grey. Why? Because of some vision. Apple wanted me to
experince the computer the way THEY invisaged. No thanks...
This may be OK for people who have no imagination whatsover, and no
desire to imagine anythig working different to how it is presented to
that, but thats not me.
On 5/10/26 23:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 01:03:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The real time waster was SUSE does not work with Ventoy. I finally
found a
blog where the guy mentioned that in passing. Then there was UEFI. I'd
turned it off for EOS but apparently SUSE needs it. As far as the
checksum
thing that may have been some transient error.
-a-a-a-aHas SUSE paid off Microsoft for a security code?
-a-a-a-aWe don't use that but have UEFI turn off the Secure Boot and use GPartEd on the installation media to do the partitioning.-a We also have
a member who produces a version with access to the Debian repositories.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:20:12 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Default install on Leap 16 is now a minimal text mode. You have to
choose a desktop.
I thought I had. I'm not fond of the installer. Most distros I've worked
with go through a series of screens to set the localization, provide any necessary wifi credentials, create the user account, select a DE, etc. Arguably all that stuff is there in the menus on the left of the installer screen.
Hey, I'm old and semi-senile and need a little hand holding.
I think I've gotten it beaten into shape. It's on a laptop but I use an external monitor via a KVM switch. Some dialogs displayed on the laptop, others on the external. I thought VS Codium was broken because it seem to freeze then I tried to open a file. The laptop is not in my peripheral
vision so it took a while to notice the file selection dialog was
displayed on the laptop.
That sounds like the systemd/wayland/gnome crowd is copying Apple and
Jory Ive there. As I don't have/use a Mac, I'm unaware of just how "protective" the walled garden of a Mac really is.
On 11/05/2026 18:46, Rich wrote:
That sounds like the systemd/wayland/gnome crowd is copying Apple and
Jory Ive there.-a As I don't have/use a Mac, I'm unaware of just how
"protective" the walled garden of a Mac really is.
A Mac makes it extremely easy to 'do stuff' that they have thought of
and implemented and almost impossible to 'do stuff' they haven't.
At least with Linux, you generally can...
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:35:55 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<https://get.opensuse.org/leap/16.0/> -> Download -> How to create a
bootable USB stick on Linux.
<https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick>
<Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows>
<https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_macOS>
There you have the supported methods for creating the USB stick.
Then there was UEFI. I'd turned it off for EOS but apparently SUSE
needs it.
That would be new. Leap 15.x did support BIOS machines.
Those instructions are similar to most distros but other distros are
usable with Ventoy. Yeah, follow the official instructions and all that
but a big DON'T USE VENTOY would be nice. It seems to work until it gets
to initramfs, where it hangs until it dies an you go back the the Lenovo BIOS. Or UEFI, I guess, to be accurate.
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE.
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin ...
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
For example, GIMP has the scripting developer console function
built-in, not as some extra-cost addon. So you can open this and
directly experiment with image-manipulation commands interactively,
in either Python or Guile.
Imagine wanting to do something like this in Photoshop -- not a
chance. Not now or ever. Because providing such a function would
impinge on the market for extra-cost addons.
Yes, but GIMP is well over 25 years old, right?
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
users more and more.
On 5/11/26 06:12, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin, which was
then laundered into "scientist say".
To the layperson, this seems like he found an argument, but it was just
a political position.-a Science does not prove that race exists or does
not exist.-a All of the levels of taxonomy, whether "species" or "class"
or "genus" or "order" are not proven to exist or not.-a They are
categorisations that are useful for grouping, categorisations which have
predictive and explanatory power.
Simply put, if there is a categorsation which is explanatory power, that
is to say, using these terms or groupings can actually describe common
features, lineage and ancestry, then that categorisation is therefore
useful.
Lewontin just did some stupid argument to "prove" it doens't exist, when
biology doesn't work that way.
To prove that "race desn't exist", you would need to demonstrate that
the categorisations are meaningless, but he couldn't do that.-a So he
used mixed peoples to come up with some math that proves.-a Well nothing.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
-a-a-a-aThe idea of race is the confusion.-a Race was invented by the European
settlers of the Americas when
I am not found of the current installer on Leap 16.0. Many people are
not happy and don't understand why the old one was ditched. It worked,
and we knew its caveats.
And the thing about not having a default desktop has caught up many
people unawares, even experienced openSUSE users. It is not you.
On 11/05/2026 17:32, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
-a-a-a-a-aThen USA depends on a-a lot of the rest of the planet for various >> things like coffee, chocolate, champaign and Scotch Whiskey. But
we depend on sales to those other places of a lot of our products like
machine tools, wheat and soy.
Champagne. There is no such thing as Scotch Whiskey. Only Irish Whiskey. It's sScotch Whisky.
Most Machine tools are European. We don't buy much from the USA at all.
Well obviously we buy IT kit but tits all made in China, only the badge
is American...
Cornflakes perhaps. But that's more likely to come from Canada.
Energy, ores and overwhelmingly 'services' .-a i kit and big industrial tech.
But Mr Trump doesn't want to sell us kit any more, so I guess that will change now
Has SUSE paid off Microsoft for a security code?
We don't use that but have UEFI turn off the Secure Boot and use GPartEd on the installation media to do the partitioning. We also have
a member who produces a version with access to the Debian repositories.
not mean much to a pro like you Bowman, but the Forum reminds me of the
old BBS scene.
Sadly, your sentence describes 98.23% (made up percentage) of plainusers
(those to which the computer is nothing more than a tool to do something else, even if that something else is simply "doomscroll facebook").They
make no changes, in very large part because they are simply unaware itis
even possible to make any customizations. Which then gives thethose
dictatorial mindset developers (and companies) reign to dictate, as
98.23% simply won't complain about anything to provide pushback on
changes.
Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and macOS
feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version
of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours,
on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE.
I don't think there ever was a time where you had to switch
distributions to get a different desktop.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:30:58 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict users
more and more. GNOME 2 and 3 seemed to have less configurability than
their predecessor. Its been a while since I've used it, but I recall
having to install an extension, to make configuration changes that with
GNOME 1 I could do as is. I was a GNOME user and stopped specifically
for this reason.
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE. Ubuntu tweaks it enough that there is a taskbar, panel, or whatever you want to
call it that I can live with since I pin the stuff I use to it and rarely have to deal with the dashboard.
Racism per se is attaching *unwarranted* characteristics to it. It's not racist to say 'all black people have higher skin melanin'
It is racist to say 'all black people smell, and are stupid'.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:46:22 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
Sadly, your sentence describes 98.23% (made up percentage) of plainusers
(those to which the computer is nothing more than a tool to do somethingThey
else, even if that something else is simply "doomscroll facebook").
make no changes, in very large part because they are simply unaware itis
even possible to make any customizations. Which then gives thethose
dictatorial mindset developers (and companies) reign to dictate, as
98.23% simply won't complain about anything to provide pushback on
changes.
I probably fall into that camp. I certainly am not Torvalds but I agree
with him that system administration isn't something I really enjoy; I have other fish to fry and want the system to work with minimal maintenance.
What a strange Americo-centric view of the world and history
And the thing about not having a default desktop has caught up many
people unawares, even experienced openSUSE users. It is not you.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 23:01:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and macOS
feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version
of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours,
on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
I'm not a refugee but GNOME never made me feel at home. Luckily I skipped Vista and 8 and went directly to 10 from 7. We did have a Windows Server version that had the smartphone dash that I avoided.
War is good for bidness. A lot of unpleasantness could have beenWhich unpleasantness? Europe and the American continents are
avoided had Wilson remained neutral and let the Europeans sort their
problems out in WWI.
on the same planet. AH had global ambitions and would have turned o n
his allies if he had won just as he turned on Joe Stalin once he thought
he had established "Festung Europa".
Champagne. There is no such thing as Scotch Whiskey. Only Irish Whiskey.
It's Scotch Whisky.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin ...
Ask any geneticist. Where is a gene in the human DNA for rCLwhiterCY or rCLblackrCY? Or rCLyellowrCY or rCLbrownrCY or rCLredrCY, for that matter? There isnrCOt
one. Look at any population that you might want to group under a common rCLracerCY, and you will find more variability between individuals in that one population than you will between the norms you are using to define
any distinction between rCLracesrCY.
Hmm, talk to Elon, maybe MARS can become the next big penal colony ?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:37:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Racism per se is attaching *unwarranted* characteristics to it. It's not
racist to say 'all black people have higher skin melanin'
It is racist to say 'all black people smell, and are stupid'.
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
The prostate cancer is one example. Ashkenazim tend to have unique health issues too. Tiptoeing around 'race', 'ethnicity', or whatever you want to call it is doing nobody any favors.
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What a strange Americo-centric view of the world and history
Bobbie is channeling Howard Zinn. If the sagas are too be believed when
the Norse first encountered the Skraelings they killed them but that's SOP for the Norse.
Calvinist? Do they accept the words of the Teacher, "What you do
for the least of these you do for Me."
On Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What a strange Americo-centric view of the world and history
Bobbie is channeling Howard Zinn. If the sagas are too be believed when
the Norse first encountered the Skraelings they killed them but that's SOP for the Norse.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:22:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Well good on Martin but I caught a bit of Fulton J. Sheen
Calvinist? Do they accept the words of the Teacher, "What you do
for the least of these you do for Me."
Not that I've noticed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism
Start with total depravity and go downhill from there.
I was a Cub Scout and when they said 'go to church with your family' I
made the fatal mistake of asking 'What is church?' I was immediately
signed up for 'religious instruction'. There were two churches in town Catholic and Dutch Reformed. My father was Catholic, albeit excommunicated for marrying my mother, so I got that flavor. My mother, forestalling my whining 'Why do I have to go to church? You don't go!', went the the
Reformed church although she never took it seriously.
Theoretically Reformed don't smoke, drink, play cards, gamble, or have
much fun. They raise money with bake sales. The Catholic church put on a horse show that was well respected on the horse show circuit, held Las
Vegas nights, and engaged in other sinful behavior. The parish had a
stable and a race horse since the races at Saratoga (NY) were a big deal.
The Catholic Church had a 'poor box' to fund the Society of Saint Vincent
de Paul that existed to serve the poor. Dorothy Day's Catholic Worker Movement took it even further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertaining_Angels:_The_Dorothy_Day_Story
That's an interesting movie about Day. For trivia Martin Sheen took his
stage name in honor of Fulton J. Sheen, possibly the first TV evangelist.
I'm not saying individual Calvinists don't aid the poor but it really
isn't in the theology. The poor aren't the elect so why bother? Good works don't raise your heavenly social score, so why bother?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:32:40 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
War is good for bidness. A lot of unpleasantness could have beenWhich unpleasantness? Europe and the American continents are
avoided had Wilson remained neutral and let the Europeans sort their
problems out in WWI.
on the same planet. AH had global ambitions and would have turned o n
his allies if he had won just as he turned on Joe Stalin once he thought
he had established "Festung Europa".
Rewind a bit. WWI had many roots but part of it was Britain trying to
defuse the Germans that had discovered the industrial revolution with a passion. The French were still butt hurt over the war they started and
lost. Had the US not sent materiel and eventually men the war might have fizzled out with Britain losing a bit of the hegemony that they ultimately lost completely.
Then the idealist fool, Wilson, went to Versailles and they played him
like a fiddle. There have been recent attempts to blame it on a bad case
of flu. Even Keynes couldn't stomach the treaty Clemenceau and George
pushed through. Even worse Germany was blockaded for six months after the treaty was signed leading to wide spread starvation. France frosted the
cake by having its colonial (colored) troops occupy the Ruhr.
Weimar was a shit pit with out of control inflation and general misery
with a decadent cherry on top. The KPD was marching in the streets and everyone was aware of what kind, gentle, people they were. q.v. Red
Terror. The original Antifa was one of their projects.
Enter Corporal Hitler. Stalin was no fool. I presume someone in the CP had read 'Mein Kampf' and knew how Hitler viewed communists. Stalin was buying time. Read Mila Pavlichenko's autobiography. She eventually was sent to
the US and became Eleanor Roosevelt's BFF and went on tour begging aid.
The hag's worthless husband complied. Him and Joe became great buddies
too.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:22:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Calvinist? Do they accept the words of the Teacher, "What you do
for the least of these you do for Me."
Not that I've noticed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism
Start with total depravity and go downhill from there.
I was a Cub Scout and when they said 'go to church with your family' I
made the fatal mistake of asking 'What is church?' I was immediately
signed up for 'religious instruction'. There were two churches in town Catholic and Dutch Reformed. My father was Catholic, albeit excommunicated for marrying my mother, so I got that flavor. My mother, forestalling my whining 'Why do I have to go to church? You don't go!', went the the
Reformed church although she never took it seriously.
On 5/11/26 20:51, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:22:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:-a-a-a-aWell good on Martin but I caught a bit of Fulton J. Sheen
-a-a-a-aCalvinist? Do they accept the words of the Teacher, "What you do >>> for the least of these you do for Me."
Not that I've noticed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism
Start with total depravity and go downhill from there.
I was a Cub Scout and when they said 'go to church with your family' I
made the fatal mistake of asking 'What is church?' I was immediately
signed up for 'religious instruction'. There were two churches in town
Catholic and Dutch Reformed. My father was Catholic, albeit
excommunicated
for marrying my mother, so I got that flavor. My mother, forestalling my
whining 'Why do I have to go to church? You don't go!', went the the
Reformed church although she never took it seriously.
Theoretically Reformed don't smoke, drink, play cards, gamble, or have
much fun. They raise money with bake sales. The Catholic church put on a
horse show that was well respected on the horse show circuit, held Las
Vegas nights, and engaged in other sinful behavior. The parish had a
stable and a race horse since the races at Saratoga (NY) were a big deal.
The Catholic Church had a 'poor box' to fund the Society of Saint Vincent
de Paul that existed to serve the poor. Dorothy Day's Catholic Worker
Movement took it even further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertaining_Angels:_The_Dorothy_Day_Story
That's an interesting movie about Day. For trivia Martin Sheen took his
stage name in honor of Fulton J. Sheen, possibly the first TV evangelist.
I'm not saying individual Calvinists don't aid the poor but it really
isn't in the theology. The poor aren't the elect so why bother? Good
works
don't raise your heavenly social score, so why bother?
and he was not Evangelical in the Protestant sense.-a He was
trying it seems to keep the wandering flock informed and in line.
-a-a-a-aI went to a Parochial RC High School in the 1950s and we
had a fire-breathing priest come by who preached against
Eddy Cantor of all things and I thought he was crazy, as Cantor
and Hope on radio were our favorite shows along with Fibber
McGee and Molly, Duffy's Tavern, Mr.Keen Tracer of Lost Persons,
the Shadow, Mr. District Attorney, Mr. First Nighter who
pretended to enjoy plays on the radio, Kay Kayser and his
College of Musical Knowledge, Jack Benny, Allan's Alley,
George Burns and Grace Allen, Phil Harris, Phil Mctalney
with Evelyn and her Magic Violin, and the Whistler.
-a-a-a-aI went to 3 different Sunday Schools of various
sects of evangelical fundamentalism before I went to
that parochial HS.
-a-a-a-aThose exposures were more deadly than
Science to any remmant of Faith eventually.
On 5/11/26 20:16, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:32:40 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
War is good for bidness. A lot of unpleasantness could have been-a-a-a-aWhich unpleasantness?-a Europe and the American continents are
avoided had Wilson remained neutral and let the Europeans sort their
problems out in WWI.
on the same planet.-a AH had global ambitions and would have turned o n
his allies if he had won just as he turned on Joe Stalin once he thought >>> -a-a he had established "Festung Europa".
Rewind a bit. WWI had many roots but part of it was Britain trying to
defuse the Germans that had discovered the industrial revolution with a
passion. The French were still butt hurt over the war they started and
lost. Had the US not sent materiel and eventually men the war might have
fizzled out with Britain losing a bit of the hegemony that they
ultimately
lost completely.
Then the idealist fool, Wilson, went to Versailles and they played him
like a fiddle. There have been recent attempts to blame it on a bad case
of flu. Even Keynes couldn't stomach the treaty Clemenceau and George
pushed through. Even worse Germany was blockaded for six months after the
treaty was signed leading to wide spread starvation. France frosted the
cake by having its colonial (colored) troops occupy the Ruhr.
Weimar was a shit pit with out of control inflation and general misery
with a decadent cherry on top. The KPD was marching in the streets and
everyone was aware of what kind, gentle, people they were. q.v. Red
Terror. The original Antifa was one of their projects.
Enter Corporal Hitler. Stalin was no fool. I presume someone in the CP
had
read 'Mein Kampf' and knew how Hitler viewed communists. Stalin was
buying
time. Read Mila Pavlichenko's autobiography. She eventually was sent to
the US and became Eleanor Roosevelt's BFF and went on tour begging aid.
The hag's worthless husband complied. Him and Joe became great buddies
too.
-a-a-a-a A lot of people do not recognize that FDR kept the USA from going for a Communist revolution.-a He took care of Hoover's Depression and
spread a lot of money around to people who needed it as well as providing cash for big projects around the nation.-a Been by Shasta or Hoover Damn lately.-a Some of them were not well thought out as we see the lake behind Hoover slowly drying up having never been built with the idea of supplying great amounts of water to the desert states including Southern California.
-a-a-a-aSome of my earliest memories are of the vast gaping hole in the Earth that would become Lake Shasta where my father ran a
Project City restaurant and my mother worked as server.-a She stuck
me under the counter to keep me at hand and out of sight.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 22:38:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE.
I don't think there ever was a time where you had to switch
distributions to get a different desktop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux
I repress painful memories but I vaguely recall rpm hell from trying to >build a DE other than the default GNOME. gcc 2.96 that couldn't build a >kernel and a homegrown Python that broke existing scripts was the last >straw. SuSE came in a nice, shrink wrapped box with KDE out of the gate. >Sold, American! It wasn't exactly 'sudo rpm -i kde' back then.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 22:38:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE.
I don't think there ever was a time where you had to switch
distributions to get a different desktop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux
I repress painful memories but I vaguely recall rpm hell from trying to
build a DE other than the default GNOME. gcc 2.96 that couldn't build a
kernel and a homegrown Python that broke existing scripts was the last
straw. SuSE came in a nice, shrink wrapped box with KDE out of the gate.
Sold, American! It wasn't exactly 'sudo rpm -i kde' back then.
So you're saying that early Red Hat didn't offer at least X11/fvwm or WindowMaker as an alternative? I have difficulties believing that.
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin, which was
then laundered into "scientist say".
To the layperson, this seems like he found an argument, but it was just
a political position. Science does not prove that race exists or does
not exist. All of the levels of taxonomy, whether "species" or "class"
or "genus" or "order" are not proven to exist or not. They are categorisations that are useful for grouping, categorisations which have predictive and explanatory power.
Simply put, if there is a categorsation which is explanatory power, that
is to say, using these terms or groupings can actually describe common features, lineage and ancestry, then that categorisation is therefore
useful.
Lewontin just did some stupid argument to "prove" it doens't exist, when biology doesn't work that way.
To prove that "race desn't exist", you would need to demonstrate that
the categorisations are meaningless, but he couldn't do that. So he
used mixed peoples to come up with some math that proves. Well nothing.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:10:40 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Has SUSE paid off Microsoft for a security code?
We don't use that but have UEFI turn off the Secure Boot and use
GPartEd on the installation media to do the partitioning. We also have
a member who produces a version with access to the Debian repositories.
<https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/reference/html/book-reference/cha-uefi.html>
Apparently. The page says it applies to Leap 15.6. Carlos might have more details but I'm finding out Leap 16 is definitely not Leap 15.
not mean much to a pro like you Bowman, but the Forum reminds me of the
old BBS scene.
I've got to hunt down the SUSE forums and listservs. The times they are a'changin. dracut and systemd-boot was a WTF? moment.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:48:11 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I am not found of the current installer on Leap 16.0. Many people are
not happy and don't understand why the old one was ditched. It worked,
and we knew its caveats.
And the thing about not having a default desktop has caught up many
people unawares, even experienced openSUSE users. It is not you.
I've noticed when installing a package with zypper it says 'Backend:
classic rpmtrans' Searching on that strangely comes up with an archived openSUSE mailing list post by someone named Carlos E. R. :) The answers
are a couple of years old and talk about libzypp experimental features. I guess they still are experimental.
https://software.opensuse.org/package/rpm says
'There is no official package available for openSUSE Leap 16.0' but rpm,
and even 'man rpm' are on the machine.
Other than the VM the last time I installed SuSE was 13.2 and I remember
the installer being a lot more linear. I also remember it defaulting to
btrfs on the boot even though grub apparently couldn't handle it. I reinstalled with ext4 (maybe ext3 at the time) and life was good.
I ran 13.2 well past its EOL since people were reporting problems trying
to upgrade to Leap 42 and I didn't want to do a fresh install.
I guess I'm back in the SuSE camp, at least on the Lenovo. I'll have to
start keeping up with what the project is doing. I've seen references to Cockpit but if it's on the machine it's hiding. Wiki actually clarified something:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSUSE
"YaST was deprecated starting with Leap 16 with the Qt interface removed, however, the ncurses interface is still available to download and use."
You must still have the Qt stuff because of upgrading from 15. I'd think
they would have went scorched earth rather than recall the '90s. It's been
a minute but I don't even remember a ncurses version. I still have the box set from 2002. I wonder if it would install? Most def not UEFI.
https://www.suse.com/news/81_i386/
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous
athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
-a Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread
-a all through the middle east and Europe long back.
-a Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 22:38:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I never liked GNOME and switched to SuSE early on since it was KDE.
I don't think there ever was a time where you had to switch
distributions to get a different desktop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux
I repress painful memories but I vaguely recall rpm hell from trying to
build a DE other than the default GNOME. gcc 2.96 that couldn't build a kernel and a homegrown Python that broke existing scripts was the last
straw. SuSE came in a nice, shrink wrapped box with KDE out of the gate. Sold, American! It wasn't exactly 'sudo rpm -i kde' back then.
It only took about 25 years before I took Fedora for a test drive and
liked it. The KDE spin, of course.
Somewhere along the line I had a box that was configured with GNOMe. I
didn't like it and installed KDE. It worked, mostly. Updates were
interesting and it was a bit fragile.
-a Oh, STILL an issue with SUSE ... if a disk can't be
-a found by fstab the whole thing HANGS. Debian tries
-a and then just says "fuck it" and moves on.
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrictThink of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
users more and more.
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-09, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
I kind of agree. I actually didn't like it much when I first >>>>>>>> started using it, seemed... inefficient, some unecessary overhead. >>>>>>>>
However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow. I think >>>>>>>> the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around, >>>>>>>> but how disruptive the replacement is.
Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant >>>>>>> system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to >>>>>>> have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered >>>>>>> view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user >>>>>>> needs/feedback.
Spot on. You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil >>>>>> use things. People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve >>>>>> problems, to use technology. They'll invent workflows and use cases and >>>>>> programs you never thought of. And this is GOOD.
Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
https://xkcd.com/1172/
The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the
systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things >>>>> that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable". >>>>> An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a >>>>> specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected. >>>>> And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally >>>>> were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need. >>>>>
I don't quite get the point the xkcd is trying to make...
It is an extreme version of the API acces statement of: "any
undocumented aspect of your API will eventually be discovered, and
relied upon, by someone, such that if you change this aspect, someone's >>> workflow will be disrupted and complain".
The XKCD used a bug as the "undocumented aspect" but the same thing
happens with things as simple as: version 1 of API just happens to
return keys in ASCII sorted order, but the documentation is slient as
to any specific order for the returning keys. Some change is made to
the server behind the API, such that the happenstance of ASCII sorted
order for keys in the API return bundle no longer apples, and keys now
return in an arbitrary order (not 'random' per. se., but no longer
"ASCII sorted" either). But, the fact that, pre bug-fix, the API
happened to always return in ASCII sorted order *will* have been relied >>> upon by someone (or more than one 'someone'), despite the actual
documentation being silent, such that post bug fix, someone(s) will
complain that the keys are no longer returning in ASCII sorted order
and their code is now badly broken.
I get that, but if its undocumented its not an intentional feature, so
yes, it makes sense in that context. I was more referring to features
which are documented, but which may seem to not be useful or required
(such as, placing a new window at a specific coordinate)
You had said, in the post to which I replied:
... They'll invent workflows and use cases and programs you never
thought of.
To which the XKCD cartoon is a perfect (albiet extreme) fit. Some
"user" invented a workflow based on the made up "CPU heating" bug in
the made up software of the cartoon. That was the point of my
referencing the XKCD, an extreme, comical, example of "inventing
workflows ... you never thought of".
The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible. It betrays to me a >>>> particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source. It to >>>> me, correlated with a pariticular political style, but I won't go into >>>> that. It shows a lack of imagination and a desire for control and
software that is created with that mindset, in particular, software like >>>> Wayland, will come out hobbled and the opposite if what the
tinkerer/hobbyist/developer community needs.
It's a "dictatorial" mindset: you will use what I give you, in the
manner I specify, and be happy with it, or else you can go f**k
yourself. The systemd/wayland/gnome crowd has become a magnet for this >>> personality type.
When I used an Apple MacBook for work, I was shoked at how little I
could change about the GUI. There were only two shades of highlight,
blue or grey. Why? Because of some vision. Apple wanted me to
experince the computer the way THEY invisaged. No thanks...
That sounds like the systemd/wayland/gnome crowd is copying Apple and
Jory Ive there. As I don't have/use a Mac, I'm unaware of just how "protective" the walled garden of a Mac really is.
This may be OK for people who have no imagination whatsover, and no
desire to imagine anythig working different to how it is presented to
that, but thats not me.
Sadly, your sentence describes 98.23% (made up percentage) of plain
users (those to which the computer is nothing more than a tool to do something else, even if that something else is simply "doomscroll facebook"). They make no changes, in very large part because they are simply unaware it is even possible to make any customizations. Which
then gives the dictatorial mindset developers (and companies) reign to dictate, as those 98.23% simply won't complain about anything to
provide pushback on changes.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:30:58 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
For example, GIMP has the scripting developer console function
built-in, not as some extra-cost addon. So you can open this and
directly experiment with image-manipulation commands interactively,
in either Python or Guile.
Imagine wanting to do something like this in Photoshop -- not a
chance. Not now or ever. Because providing such a function would
impinge on the market for extra-cost addons.
Yes, but GIMP is well over 25 years old, right?
Are you trying to say GIMP somehow had a head start on offering those features over Photoshop? That argument doesnrCOt work.
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
users more and more.
Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
On Linux, you have plenty of GUI choices, and plenty of configuration
and theming choices within most of those GUIs, so there is really no
reason to complain. But for those who still want to complain, you can
choose to be stuck without a choice, and that no-choice choice is
GNOME.
On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrictThink of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
users more and more.
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2,
or 2 to 3.
Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
Mr. Trump, correctly, calculated
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:37:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Racism per se is attaching *unwarranted* characteristics to it. It's not
racist to say 'all black people have higher skin melanin'
It is racist to say 'all black people smell, and are stupid'.
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
The prostate cancer is one example. Ashkenazim tend to have unique health issues too. Tiptoeing around 'race', 'ethnicity', or whatever you want to call it is doing nobody any favors.
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:12:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin ...
Ask any geneticist. Where is a gene in the human DNA for rCLwhiterCY or rCLblackrCY? Or rCLyellowrCY or rCLbrownrCY or rCLredrCY, for that matter? There isnrCOt
one. Look at any population that you might want to group under a
common rCLracerCY, and you will find more variability between individuals
in that one population than you will between the norms you are using
to define any distinction between rCLracesrCY.
What was amusing was to hear about those white supremacists in the
USA, taking genetic tests to prove their whiteness. Quite a few of
them discovered they had some ancestry in common with slaves as well
as slave owners. Should have come as no big surprise to any student of genetics or, indeed, anybody familiar with normal human behaviour. But
these fanatics were of course outraged, and claimed that the genetic
test results were some kind of politically-motivated conspiracy
against them or something.
Some semetics are extra prone to blood disorders like thalassemia,
On 5/11/26 06:12, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 12:33:30 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
Actually no, a "racist" in practice, is anyone who holds an opinion
of other ethnicities/races, or of any policy pertaining to
immigration and demographics, which is not endorsed by the
prevailing liberal worldview.
It is not whether there is hate involved, but whether the accuser
believes hate is involved.
If there is a value judgement involved, then that falls under the
category of rCLracismrCY.
By the way, rCLracerCY is not a scientific concept.
The argument that is it not scientific comes from Lewontin, which was
then laundered into "scientist say".
To the layperson, this seems like he found an argument, but it was just
a political position. Science does not prove that race exists or does
not exist. All of the levels of taxonomy, whether "species" or "class"
or "genus" or "order" are not proven to exist or not. They are
categorisations that are useful for grouping, categorisations which have
predictive and explanatory power.
Simply put, if there is a categorsation which is explanatory power, that
is to say, using these terms or groupings can actually describe common
features, lineage and ancestry, then that categorisation is therefore
useful.
Lewontin just did some stupid argument to "prove" it doens't exist, when
biology doesn't work that way.
To prove that "race desn't exist", you would need to demonstrate that
the categorisations are meaningless, but he couldn't do that. So he
used mixed peoples to come up with some math that proves. Well nothing.
The fact that humans still use racial terms, and do so without confusion
kind of has to be explained...
The idea of race is the confusion. Race was invented by the European settlers of the Americas when they encountered people of markedly different skin color. Before that Europeans did not describe themselves as belonging to a White Race. But once they got to the New World they had people with out the same religion to be reduced to slavery despite the efforts of Popes and Kings to point out that these people of color where as human as themselves.
We fought the Revolutionary War in North America because we
wanted to take over the lands of the Native American Tribes therein
resident who subsisted by farming and hunting and the Government of the
UK wanted rapprochment with those NA Tribes for the sake of trading
and eventual incorporation into the Empire. So did the French and the Spanish despite the words of Kings and Pope wanted to enslave the
people in the territories that they occupied.
Slavery was the basis of Wealth in the North American colonies
of the UK so despite the proclamation in our Declaration of Independence
of universal equality, the Constitution maintained slavery for 60+ years until parts of the new nation murdered each other to free the African descended slaves of the Southern States.
bliss
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but
-a they didn't quite make it. Now they only live on
-a in scary tales about "trolls" and "ogres".
On 5/11/26 22:35, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:37:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Racism per se is attaching *unwarranted* characteristics to it. It's not >>> racist to say 'all black people have higher skin melanin'
It is racist to say 'all black people smell, and are stupid'.
Distinct 'racial' groups often DO have a distinctive smell.
In part it's 'traditional diet', in part genetics. Long back
a science teacher handed out like a dozen paper strips dipped
in various chems and we filled in which we could taste and
whether it seemed good/bad/otherwise. Even amongst the WASPS
there were considerable differences. Humans are NOT all the
same even at the basic biochem levels. Those strips could
probably predict which foods you'd like - and, as a result,
smell like later.
NO 'racial' groups are 'stupid' however. Local culture
may redirect attention/focus, but the underlying IQ
is about the same everywhere - whether there's any
Neanderthal in your family tree or not.
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous
athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread
all through the middle east and Europe long back.
Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
Saw an Akkadian wall relief lately, apparently
showing Sargon-I strangling a lion. That wasn't
Africa, but Mesopotamia. There are no lions in
Europe now because the Euros KILLED THEM ALL.
The prostate cancer is one example. Ashkenazim tend to have unique health
issues too. Tiptoeing around 'race', 'ethnicity', or whatever you want to
call it is doing nobody any favors.
Saw a 'black' urologist long long back. What stood
out was that he said it was lucky I wasn't 'black'
when it came to prostate issues. Apparently that's
a serious predisposition if you're 'black'. Some
semetics are extra prone to blood disorders like
thalassemia, many north 'Asians' and Native Americans
can't process alcohol, 'Euros' are a big mix - so
we see a random spectrum. What did the Beaker People
do to YOUR family line ? Grogg the Neanderthal ???
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to
conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
Look, as said, all humans are NOT exactly the same. Local
conditions, micro-evolution, emphasize some stuff, demote
other stuff, modify even more stuff. We're not fully
homogenized, time and distance prevented that.
BUT ... we're FAR more alike than different. The
differences tend to be ultra-trivial. Ignore them.
You'll get FAR more difference in how a Hindu and
Chinese and Russian see the same thing. 99% culture.
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but
they didn't quite make it. Now they only live on
in scary tales about "trolls" and "ogres".
Of course if you're TOO 'woke' you will claim that even
people with solid XY chromosomes can be 'women' :-)
But none of this seems to relate to Linux unless you
are making a big database.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What a strange Americo-centric view of the world and history
Bobbie is channeling Howard Zinn. If the sagas are too be believed when
the Norse first encountered the Skraelings they killed them but that's SOP for the Norse.
As for Norse ... in the 800s/900s their standard
-a approach to anything different was "KILL It !".
-a-a-aWhen the Continental peoples before they were nations
invaded the cold wet island of England before it has that
name they drove the originals north to Scotland and South
to Wales.
First off the NAZIs would have bowled over a commie USA
Ask any geneticist. Where is a gene in the human DNA for rCLwhiterCY or rCLblackrCY? Or rCLyellowrCY or rCLbrownrCY or rCLredrCY, for that matter? There isnrCOt
one.
had never heard of Lewontin, and never understood where the
"scientifically race doesn't exist" argument came from. I had to whack
this mole only yesterday, from a medical doctor, someone who should know better
On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrictThink of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
users more and more.
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2,
or 2 to 3.
Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
I heard some controversy of these tests. There were claims of monkeying
with the results, but I recall seeing them admitting to doing it to "own
the racists" or something like that.
What is it about black skin that makes men sprint 100M at the olympics
faster than those with white skin?
Wheter they are from Ghana, US, UK, Poland or Chad, the dark skinned--
people seem to always outcompete.
Riddle me this batman!
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the
time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are
other countries.
You did not invent "race".
Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to
2, or 2 to 3.
Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
The lists and forums have not moved for a bunch of years.
Of course they all saw their own cultures and ethnicities as
'superior'...
On 2026-05-12, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/11/26 22:35, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:37:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Racism per se is attaching *unwarranted* characteristics to it. It's not >>>> racist to say 'all black people have higher skin melanin'
It is racist to say 'all black people smell, and are stupid'.
Distinct 'racial' groups often DO have a distinctive smell.
In part it's 'traditional diet', in part genetics. Long back
a science teacher handed out like a dozen paper strips dipped
in various chems and we filled in which we could taste and
whether it seemed good/bad/otherwise. Even amongst the WASPS
there were considerable differences. Humans are NOT all the
same even at the basic biochem levels. Those strips could
probably predict which foods you'd like - and, as a result,
smell like later.
NO 'racial' groups are 'stupid' however. Local culture
may redirect attention/focus, but the underlying IQ
is about the same everywhere - whether there's any
Neanderthal in your family tree or not.
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous
athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread
all through the middle east and Europe long back.
Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
Saw an Akkadian wall relief lately, apparently
showing Sargon-I strangling a lion. That wasn't
Africa, but Mesopotamia. There are no lions in
Europe now because the Euros KILLED THEM ALL.
The prostate cancer is one example. Ashkenazim tend to have unique health >>> issues too. Tiptoeing around 'race', 'ethnicity', or whatever you want to >>> call it is doing nobody any favors.
Saw a 'black' urologist long long back. What stood
out was that he said it was lucky I wasn't 'black'
when it came to prostate issues. Apparently that's
a serious predisposition if you're 'black'. Some
semetics are extra prone to blood disorders like
thalassemia, many north 'Asians' and Native Americans
can't process alcohol, 'Euros' are a big mix - so
we see a random spectrum. What did the Beaker People
do to YOUR family line ? Grogg the Neanderthal ???
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to
conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
Look, as said, all humans are NOT exactly the same. Local
conditions, micro-evolution, emphasize some stuff, demote
other stuff, modify even more stuff. We're not fully
homogenized, time and distance prevented that.
BUT ... we're FAR more alike than different. The
differences tend to be ultra-trivial. Ignore them.
You'll get FAR more difference in how a Hindu and
Chinese and Russian see the same thing. 99% culture.
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but
they didn't quite make it. Now they only live on
in scary tales about "trolls" and "ogres".
Of course if you're TOO 'woke' you will claim that even
people with solid XY chromosomes can be 'women' :-)
But none of this seems to relate to Linux unless you
are making a big database.
What is it about black skin that makes men sprint 100M at the olympics
faster than those with white skin?
Wheter they are from Ghana, US, UK, Poland or Chad, the dark skinned
people seem to always outcompete.
Riddle me this batman!
On 5/11/26 22:55, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What a strange Americo-centric view of the world and history
Bobbie is channeling Howard Zinn. If the sagas are too be believed when
the Norse first encountered the Skraelings they killed them but that's
SOP for the Norse.
Everybody has their own "centric" view. It's not necessarily more
'right' or 'wrong' than anyone elses 'centrism' however.
As for Norse ... in the 800s/900s their standard approach to anything
different was "KILL It !".
On 12/05/2026 04:46, c186282 wrote:
As for Norse ... in the 800s/900s their standard
-a approach to anything different was "KILL It !".
If you cant fuck it, and there is no room in the boat for another slave,
kill it
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but they didn't quite
make it. Now they only live on in scary tales about "trolls" and
"ogres".
I'm happy that lions got extinct here. I'm not sure that repopulating
with bears is a good idea. Wolfs, perhaps.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:18:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The lists and forums have not moved for a bunch of years.
I scrolled through the forum lat night. My takeaway was to stay far away
from Tumbleweed and Slowroll. From my experiment with Endeavour/Arch I can see no benefit from a rolling distribution for me. Fedora is bad enough, though so far it hasn't burned me. So I have the 6.12.29 kernel rather
than 7.0.5? It works, as does 6.17.23 on Ubuntu and Mint.
What is it about black skin that makes men sprint 100M at the olympics
faster than those with white skin?
Wheter they are from Ghana, US, UK, Poland or Chad, the dark skinned
people seem to always outcompete.
Riddle me this batman!
Kenyans live at 10,000 fr., They have lungs like balloons.
Oh, yer customizations tend to VANISH with every update DO IT ALL
AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN ...
Sisyphus and his stone ......
On 12/05/2026 04:24, rbowman wrote:
Ask any geneticist. Where is a gene in the human DNA for rCLwhiterCY or
rCLblackrCY? Or rCLyellowrCY or rCLbrownrCY or rCLredrCY, for that matter? There isnrCOt
one.
No. There are about 10 for each characteristic.
Some of my earliest memories are of the vast gaping hole in the
Earth that would become Lake Shasta where my father ran a Project City restaurant and my mother worked as server. She stuck me under the
counter to keep me at hand and out of sight.
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race.-a Look, progressives use race ALL the
time!-a DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world.-a There are
other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to
1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language, city-
state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
-a-a-a Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early Bronze Age).
-a-a-a Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under the Akkadian Empire.
-a-a-a Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in Mesopotamia and the Levant.
-a-a-a Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
-a-a-a Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite and Kassite rule.
-a-a-a Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late Bronze Age.
-a-a-a Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
-a-a-a Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern Levant.
-a-a-a Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia.
-a-a-a Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
-a-a-a Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
-a-a-a Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant
late in the period.
-a-a-a Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset, Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
-a-a-a Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly centralized.
-a-a-a Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
-a-a-a Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
-a-a-a Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland, often referred to as Achaeans.
-a-a-a Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
-a-a-a Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade.
Asia & Central Asia
============
-a-a-a Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley.
-a-a-a Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization.
-a-a-a BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for
sedentary agriculture.
-a-a-a Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of Central Asia.
Europe
====
-a-a-a Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe
in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
-a-a-a Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe.
-a-a-a Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers
in Scandinavia.
-a-a-a Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions"
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese) brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's
heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck
someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
Just installed a VBox version of GhostBSD ... it uses MATE by
default. On the whole MATE isn't bad - but it's not really GNOME of
any kind any more. This is good.
On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict usersThink of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
more and more.
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2,
or 2 to 3.
Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
I think I tied to install Ubuntu one time. Horrible appearance. And
didn't work in some way. Graphics?
On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:16:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Kenyans live at 10,000 fr., They have lungs like balloons.
One of the popular hikes here is St. Mary Peak at 9,351'. I passed a guy resting along the trail and shortly later encountered a woman. She asked
if I'd seen a man back down the trail and I said he was resting. She said
he was a smoke and she had dragged him up there to show him what emphysema was going to be like. That's cold.
And KDE certainly can be configured to make Windows users feel
more at home. As a matter of fact it used be able and likely still is configurable to look like nearly any other desktop environment in use.
Well good on Martin but I caught a bit of Fulton J. Sheen
and he was not Evangelical in the Protestant sense. He was trying it
seems to keep the wandering flock informed and in line.
Hmmmm ... when I was very young I went to a meeting thing to see
about becoming a "Boy Scout". Seemed fun and interesting.
Alas, one of the overlords asked me about religion - to which I
replied very honestly ... didn't pass the smell test. As such, they
rejected me.
So you're saying that early Red Hat didn't offer at least X11/fvwm or WindowMaker as an alternative? I have difficulties believing that.
Oh, STILL an issue with SUSE ... if a disk can't be found by fstab
the whole thing HANGS. Debian tries and then just says "fuck it" and
moves on.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:18:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The lists and forums have not moved for a bunch of years.
I scrolled through the forum lat night. My takeaway was to stay far away
from Tumbleweed and Slowroll. From my experiment with Endeavour/Arch I can see no benefit from a rolling distribution for me. Fedora is bad enough, though so far it hasn't burned me. So I have the 6.12.29 kernel rather
than 7.0.5? It works, as does 6.17.23 on Ubuntu and Mint.
I would be interested to know what people were in Italy, France and
Spain.
On 12/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but
-a they didn't quite make it. Now they only live on
-a in scary tales about "trolls" and "ogres".
Look on you tube, very popular subject.
Women very tough and hunted too. Travelled miles to find mates,. males
stayed put. Lack of genetic diversity probably killed them off.
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
Pff. That page is non functional since Leap got some packages directly
from SUSE. Not just source inherited and compatible, but binary the
same. I think. So the search page has to locate some packages at
openSUSE repos,
and some at SUSE repos.
Oh, the ncurses interface has been there since ever. It is very useful
when doing remote installs or maintenance over ssh.
cockpit, I still haven't managed to install/try it.
So you're saying that early Red Hat didn't offer at least X11/fvwm or WindowMaker as an alternative? I have difficulties believing that.
On 2026-05-12 05:42, c186282 wrote:
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are marvelous
athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the spearchuckers evolved
speed through selection by hungry lions probably is.
-a-a Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread
-a-a all through the middle east and Europe long back.
-a-a Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
I'm happy that lions got extinct here. I'm not sure that repopulating
with bears is a good idea. Wolfs, perhaps.
On the other hand, Leap is too slow changes, the major version stays put
for something like six years.
Funny my rolling release of PCLinuxOS, a fork of Mandrake and
Mandriva is much more convenient than Mandriva with a fixed release.
And as long as the distro does what you want the kernel is not a problem. The packager is working on a 6.18.2x version but having small problems but "the last 10% takes as long as the first 90%" as the
experience goes.
On 2026-05-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
Watching the ads netflix and amazon shove into the stream has led me to
conclude black people seem to have a lot of health issues that can be
cured by Pfizer if the side effects up to and including death don't get
you first. Or maybe some ethnicities are overrepresented ?
Reverse discrimination. Two wrongs make a right, doncha know.
On 5/12/26 09:36, rbowman wrote:will
On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:16:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:She must love him and want him to stop smoking so that their love
Kenyans live at 10,000 fr., They have lungs like balloons.
One of the popular hikes here is St. Mary Peak at 9,351'. I passed a
guy resting along the trail and shortly later encountered a woman. She
asked if I'd seen a man back down the trail and I said he was resting.
She said he was a smoke and she had dragged him up there to show him
what emphysema was going to be like. That's cold.
last a bit longer.
On 5/12/26 06:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-05-12 05:42, c186282 wrote:
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are
marvelous athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the
spearchuckers evolved speed through selection by hungry lions
probably is.
-a-a Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread all through the
-a-a middle east and Europe long back.
-a-a Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
I'm happy that lions got extinct here. I'm not sure that repopulating
with bears is a good idea. Wolfs, perhaps.
The ancestors put a lot of effort into removing those large
aggressive beasts. IMHO they should just STAY gone.
I would be interested to know what people were in Italy, France and
Spain.
*Fascinating* how much of history was already well underway before we'd
even started writing stuff down. Makes you wonder what we'd learn if we
could only *know* what happened vs. guessing from abandoned villages & fragments of material culture; how many stories are lost to the ages?
On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:46:00 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 5/12/26 06:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-05-12 05:42, c186282 wrote:
I have noticed it is not racist to say 'all black people are
marvelous athletes' or some similar stereotype. Saying the
spearchuckers evolved speed through selection by hungry lions
probably is.
-a-a Actually there were hungry lions and worse spread all through the >>>> -a-a middle east and Europe long back.
-a-a Tigers can be found all the way into Siberia.
I'm happy that lions got extinct here. I'm not sure that repopulating
with bears is a good idea. Wolfs, perhaps.
The ancestors put a lot of effort into removing those large
aggressive beasts. IMHO they should just STAY gone.
I thought about that later. If the Europeans managed to get rid of the
apex predators why does Africa still have a fine selection? I mean even
the North American Indians managed to barbecue the last mastadon.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:44:36 -0700, John Ames wrote:
*Fascinating* how much of history was already well underway before we'd
even started writing stuff down. Makes you wonder what we'd learn if we
could only *know* what happened vs. guessing from abandoned villages &
fragments of material culture; how many stories are lost to the ages?
When I was a kid I wondered why history started in the Near East,
progressed through the Greeks and Romans before getting the Northern
Europe. Not being a Babylonian, Greek, or Roman I thought a lot was
missing about my personal ancestors.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:56:31 +0200
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to
2, or 2 to 3.
Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
2 -> 3. GNOME Team (like MS) swallowed the tech-press "death of the PC" narrative hook, line, and sinker and went all-in on trying to mutate
their desktop GUI into a hybrid tablet interface, ending up with a Fiji mermaid that made nobody happy - and when people complained they (like
MS) responded by stridently lecturing the public about how Actually You
Just Don't Get It and making only the most token concessions they could
get by with. *Unlike* over in Windows territory, the community had the
choice to tell them where to shove it, and MATE was forked from GNOME 2
in the space of about 14 ns, to the surprise of absolutely nobody but
GNOME Team.
You'd almost think there was a lesson in there somewhere, but if
Wayland is any indication people seem determined not to learn it.
cougars (mountain lions)Also known as panthers and pumas, or catamounts, depending where you
On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:31:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/05/2026 04:24, rbowman wrote:
Ask any geneticist. Where is a gene in the human DNA for rCLwhiterCY or
rCLblackrCY? Or rCLyellowrCY or rCLbrownrCY or rCLredrCY, for that matter? There isnrCOt
one.
No. There are about 10 for each characteristic.
Should be attributed to Lawrence's parroting of The Science, not me.
I would be interested to know what people were in Italy, France and Spain.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:39:12 +0200
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I would be interested to know what people were in Italy, France and
Spain.
Need to read up on this more myself, but AFAICT from a quick survey: unidentified megalith builders -> Beaker People/Los Millares -> Agraric culture/Levantine Bronze Age -> major upheaval c.a. 1300 B.C., Urnfield culture -> Phoenicians colonize the south and Celts roll in during the
Iron Age -> development into the Iberian culture of antiquity -> Rome
and Carthage decide that Iberia would make a lovely battlefield.
*Fascinating* how much of history was already well underway before we'd
even started writing stuff down. Makes you wonder what we'd learn if we
could only *know* what happened vs. guessing from abandoned villages & fragments of material culture; how many stories are lost to the ages?
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:44:36 -0700, John Ames wrote:
*Fascinating* how much of history was already well underway before we'd
even started writing stuff down. Makes you wonder what we'd learn if we
could only *know* what happened vs. guessing from abandoned villages &
fragments of material culture; how many stories are lost to the ages?
When I was a kid I wondered why history started in the Near East,
progressed through the Greeks and Romans before getting the Northern
Europe. Not being a Babylonian, Greek, or Roman I thought a lot was
missing about my personal ancestors.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:27:48 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On the other hand, Leap is too slow changes, the major version stays put
for something like six years.
I'll have to see how it goes. What I'm interested in isn't a part of
openSUSE per se. I expert applications like Brave, Codium, Arduino IDE,
node, and so forth will update on their own cycles.
I did notice the Python is 3.13.13. That is the maintenance release from
last month. That is actually a good thing. Fedora went to 3.14 and PySide6 wouldn't run on it the last I knew. Zypper lists a lot of python313-x packages. That's a good thing since they install into the system site- packages. For example I like ruff, a linter and formatter. On SUSE I can install it from the SUSE repository. Ubuntu has neither black or ruff so
to use them I need to create a venv and install it there.
gcc is 15.2, the latest. clang is a little out of date.
On 5/12/26 21:28, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:44:36 -0700, John Ames wrote:
*Fascinating* how much of history was already well underway
before we'd even started writing stuff down. Makes you wonder
what we'd learn if we could only *know* what happened vs.
guessing from abandoned villages & fragments of material
culture; how many stories are lost to the ages?
When I was a kid I wondered why history started in the Near East,
progressed through the Greeks and Romans before getting the
Northern Europe. Not being a Babylonian, Greek, or Roman I thought
a lot was missing about my personal ancestors.
Actually a lot of written down history started in China. It was full
of wars. Wars of unification and civil wars and then the Emperor
would lose the favor of the Gods and have to be replaced. More war.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:39:12 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I would be interested to know what people were in Italy, France and
Spain.
Don't know. If the Just So stories about my Y chromosome can be believed
it was a mutation of the I1 Upper Paleolithic European hunter gatherers
that arose during the Nordic Bronze Age. They'd followed the glaciers
north. Life was grand before the damn farmers showed up. It's all guess
work and fantasizing but some scholars claim the Aesir-Vanir War in the Nordic literature reflects the Indo-European farmers moving into the neighborhood. The Gods get mixed up afterwards but the Vanir are usually associated with fertility, good harvests, and so forth.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 22:30:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Just installed a VBox version of GhostBSD ... it uses MATE by
default. On the whole MATE isn't bad - but it's not really GNOME of
any kind any more. This is good.
My first Mint install was the MATE mix. It was okay, better than their version of Xfce but I reinstalled with Cinnamon.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 12/05/2026 04:42, c186282 wrote:
DO wish we knew more about the Neanderthals, but
-a they didn't quite make it. Now they only live on
-a in scary tales about "trolls" and "ogres".
Look on you tube, very popular subject.
Women very tough and hunted too. Travelled miles to find mates,. males
stayed put. Lack of genetic diversity probably killed them off.
WerCOre descended from them (at least, you and I probably are); most
Eurasian populations have a little Neanderthal DNA. Not so rCykilled offrCO perhaps.
I'm happy that lions got extinct here. I'm not sure that repopulating
with bears is a good idea. Wolfs, perhaps.
-a The ancestors put a lot of effort into removing
-a those large aggressive beasts. IMHO they should
-a just STAY gone.
The ancestors put a lot of effort into removing those large
aggressive beasts. IMHO they should just STAY gone.
I thought about that later. If the Europeans managed to get rid of
the apex predators why does Africa still have a fine selection? I
mean even the North American Indians managed to barbecue the last
mastadon.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 08:02:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
So you're saying that early Red Hat didn't offer at least X11/fvwm or
WindowMaker as an alternative? I have difficulties believing that.
Dipping into 'Red Hst Linux Unleashed' from 1998 which came with a RHL 5.2
CD there are instructions for installing KDE. First, visit the trolls to
get the QT stuff and build it. That may or may not have required getting other tarballs the Qt depended on. Then get the KDE base, which included KDE's window manager, the libs, and the support packages and build them.
Then get six additional rpms and install with 'rpm -i kde*rpm'
"This process will definitely consume more than several hours of your
time."
Or walk over to BestBuy and get SuSE Linux 8.1 in a box with all the installation media and hardcopy documentation. Your choice.
For windows managers you had twm, fvwm, fvwm2, AfterStep, and the default AnotherLevel, which was fvwm2 customized by Red Hat. It says GNOME could
use any of them. That would be GNOME 1, I've bad memories of building
Sawfish to try to update to GNOME 2. That was before GNOME 2 switched to Metacity. By then I was GNOMEd out. Off to BestBuy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozCoq4osSwk
Those were the days my friend, we though they would never end. Thank the
Gods they did.
I miss the box with the CDs and good paper books.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 08:02:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
So you're saying that early Red Hat didn't offer at least X11/fvwm or
For windows managers you had twm, fvwm, fvwm2, AfterStep, and the default AnotherLevel, which was fvwm2 customized by Red Hat. It says GNOME could
use any of them. That would be GNOME 1, I've bad memories of building Sawfish to try to update to GNOME 2. That was before GNOME 2 switched to Metacity. By then I was GNOMEd out. Off to BestBuy.
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the
time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are
other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to
1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language,
city-state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early Bronze Age).
Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under
the Akkadian Empire.
Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in
Mesopotamia and the Levant.
Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite
and Kassite rule.
Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late
Bronze Age.
Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern Levant.
Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia.
Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant
late in the period.
Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset, Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly centralized.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland,
often referred to as Achaeans.
Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade.
Asia & Central Asia
============
Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley.
Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization.
BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for sedentary agriculture.
Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of
Central Asia.
Europe
====
Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe
in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe.
Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers
in Scandinavia.
Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions"
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese) brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's
heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck
someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the
time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are
other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to
1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct
ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language,
city-state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early
Bronze Age).
Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under
the Akkadian Empire.
Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in
Mesopotamia and the Levant.
Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite
and Kassite rule.
Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late
Bronze Age.
Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with
Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern
Levant.
Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia.
Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant
late in the period.
Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset,
Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly
centralized.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland,
often referred to as Achaeans.
Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade.
Asia & Central Asia
============
Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley. >> Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization.
BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for >> sedentary agriculture.
Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of
Central Asia.
Europe
====
Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe
in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe.
Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers
in Scandinavia.
Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions"
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese)
brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown
ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and
everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's
heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck
someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their
side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away... Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Look at the end result.--
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
I miss the box with the CDs and good paper books.
On 13/05/2026 12:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I miss the box with the CDs and good paper books.
I dont. the CDS are all on a pair of back to back servers...
I still have thousands of books.
When I had a black Labrador he would occasionally escape to find lady
Black Labradors in heat to mate with. He never ever tried with any other breed. A racist to his core, that dog...
On Wed, 13 May 2026 13:21:49 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the
natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
In North America the French preferred to make love rather than war on the 'First Nation' people, resulting in the Metis. Most assimilated although
it is popular to find your grandmother was a full blooded Cree.
As far as the Brits, Massa couldn't keep out of the slave shacks. The
results haven't assimilated very well.
On 12/05/2026 17:27, rbowman wrote:
cougars (mountain lions)Also known as panthers and pumas, or catamounts, depending where you
live and what colour they are..
Of course 'panther' is used for black leopards and black jaguars as
well...
On 12/05/2026 17:44, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 22:30:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Just installed a VBox version of GhostBSD ... it uses MATE by
default. On the whole MATE isn't bad - but it's not really GNOME
of any kind any more. This is good.
My first Mint install was the MATE mix. It was okay, better than their
version of Xfce but I reinstalled with Cinnamon.
Interesting,. I tried cinnamon but it was too late, I had got too used
to the MATE tools.
If I were a noob today I would probably go for cinnamon.
Actually a lot of written down history started in China. It wasfull of
wars.lose
Wars of unification and civil wars and then the Emperor would
favor of the Gods and have to be replaced. More war.
In Britain really serious and effective archaeology only started in the
1960s and DNA research and linguistics even later.
Are you sure of that? Item should follow with stories of charred mastadon bones.
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving people, goats, and soil erosion...
Problem today is that deer populations in the UK are out of control, and
the ecoMoronsrao are happier with having their throats torn out by wolves (but never foxes by dogs) than employing professional marksmen with
rifles.
In Africa diseases kept the number of humans down until the Europeans
got there with the idea that every human life counts.
On 13/05/2026 12:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I miss the box with the CDs and good paper books.
I dont. the CDS are all on a pair of back to back servers...
I still have thousands of books.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:34:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving people,
goats, and soil erosion...
And the haphazard application of Western medical technology ensures there are more starving people...
On 2026-05-13, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
In Africa diseases kept the number of humans down until the Europeans
got there with the idea that every human life counts.
But ironically they slaughtered huge numbers of people.
Oh well, I guess every life does count when you're looking
for cannon fodder.
On 2026-05-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:34:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving people, >>> goats, and soil erosion...
And the haphazard application of Western medical technology ensures there
are more starving people...
And the number of governments pushing people to breed
ensures there will be still more.
On 13/05/2026 22:34, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Not in Japan or China by all accounts.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:34:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving
people,
goats, and soil erosion...
And the haphazard application of Western medical technology ensures
there
are more starving people...
And the number of governments pushing people to breed
ensures there will be still more.
Not sure about India
On 2026-05-14 11:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/05/2026 22:34, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Not in Japan or China by all accounts.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:34:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving
people,
goats, and soil erosion...
And the haphazard application of Western medical technology ensures
there
are more starving people...
And the number of governments pushing people to breed
ensures there will be still more.
Not sure about India
China is again encouraging people to have kids.
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Not exactly.
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the >>>> time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are >>>> other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to
1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct >>> ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language,
city-state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early >>> Bronze Age).
Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under >>> the Akkadian Empire.
Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in
Mesopotamia and the Levant.
Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite >>> and Kassite rule.
Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late
Bronze Age.
Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with
Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern >>> Levant.
Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia.
Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant
late in the period.
Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset, >>> Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly >>> centralized.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland,
often referred to as Achaeans.
Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade.
Asia & Central Asia
============
Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley.
Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization.
BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for >>> sedentary agriculture.
Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of
Central Asia.
Europe
====
Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe
in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe.
Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers
in Scandinavia.
Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions"
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese)
brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown
ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and
everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's
heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck
someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their
side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away... Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the
natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc
etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper integration.
On 2026-05-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Not exactly.
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the >>>>> time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are >>>>> other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to
1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct >>>> ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language,
city-state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early >>>> Bronze Age).
Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under >>>> the Akkadian Empire.
Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in
Mesopotamia and the Levant.
Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite >>>> and Kassite rule.
Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late
Bronze Age.
Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with >>>> Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern >>>> Levant.
Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia.
Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant >>>> late in the period.
Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset, >>>> Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly >>>> centralized.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland, >>>> often referred to as Achaeans.
Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade.
Asia & Central Asia
============
Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley.
Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization. >>>> BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for
sedentary agriculture.
Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of
Central Asia.
Europe
====
Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe >>>> in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe. >>>> Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers >>>> in Scandinavia.
Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions" >>>>
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese)
brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown >>>> ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and >>>> everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's
heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck
someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their >>>> side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away... Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the
natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc
etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper
integration.
Who are they? You mean English people born in the Carribean, or the other way around?
Its very clear, those places where the Spanish colonised, and
assimilated into the native population, those places became "nowhere", whereas those places, clearly still Anglo are "somewhere".
That is why there this massive problem of the mixed descendents of the Spanish in Latin America moving to the Anglos up north.
And you're right, few people care. But that means nothing. Maybe they should care!
As for intergration, "as long as there is" is doing a lot of work here.
Thats the problem, the intergration is failing miserably.
We're tired of "if we do it right". No, its doesnt work.
I mean english people of mixed english and caribbean african ancestry
Not sure about India
On 13/05/2026 20:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-13, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
In Africa diseases kept the number of humans down until the Europeans
got there with the idea that every human life counts.
But ironically they slaughtered huge numbers of people.
Did they?
Not as many as America did.
Oh well, I guess every life does count when you're looking
for cannon fodder.
On 14/05/2026 11:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-05-14 11:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes, but they aren't having them...
On 13/05/2026 22:34, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-05-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Not in Japan or China by all accounts.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 12:34:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There are no lions in sub Saharan Africa any more, Just starving
people, goats, and soil erosion...
And the haphazard application of Western medical technology ensures >>>>> there are more starving people...
And the number of governments pushing people to breed
ensures there will be still more.
Not sure about India
China is again encouraging people to have kids.
You made two statements ANDed together
- governments are pushing people to breed
AND THIS
- ensures there will be still more.
if either part of a logical AND is false the entire statement is false.
The problem of falling populations is twofold
- looking after the elderly
- coping with accrued public debt.
The only ways to deal with the debt is to increase the number of people
it's shared among or go for massive inflation to devalue it.
Or of course default.
On 14/05/2026 13:55, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I mean english people of mixed english and caribbean african ancestryNot exactly.
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away...-a Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the
natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc
etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper
integration.
Who are they?-a You mean English people born in the Carribean, or the
other way around?
e.g "Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton was born on 7 January 1985 in Stevenage, Hertfordshire. His father, Anthony Hamilton, is of Afro- Grenadian descent, while his mother, Carmen Larbalestier, is White
British from Birmingham,making him mixed-race"
Its very clear, those places where the Spanish colonised, andNo, they are not. In e.g. Mexico there is a definite class system based
assimilated into the native population, those places became "nowhere",
whereas those places, clearly still Anglo are "somewhere".
on how much Spanish and how much 'native Indian' is in your ancestry.
The problem of falling populations is twofoldThe problem with this is that the people looking after the
- looking after the elderly
elderly will become old themselves someday, requiring still
more people to look after them. It will eventually go the
way of any other Ponzi scheme.
- coping with accrued public debt.That will be moot once we hit the Malthusian crash.
The only ways to deal with the debt is to increase the number of people
it's shared among or go for massive inflation to devalue it.
Or of course default.
On 2026-05-14 15:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/05/2026 13:55, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I mean english people of mixed english and caribbean african ancestryNot exactly.
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away...-a Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the >>>>> natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc >>>> etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper
integration.
Who are they?-a You mean English people born in the Carribean, or the
other way around?
e.g "Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton was born on 7 January 1985 in
Stevenage, Hertfordshire. His father, Anthony Hamilton, is of Afro-
Grenadian descent, while his mother, Carmen Larbalestier, is White
British from Birmingham,making him mixed-race"
Its very clear, those places where the Spanish colonised, andNo, they are not. In e.g. Mexico there is a definite class system
assimilated into the native population, those places became "nowhere",
whereas those places, clearly still Anglo are "somewhere".
based on how much Spanish and how much 'native Indian' is in your
ancestry.
I don't know myself, either way. But I know that there is a lot of
mixing in all of the Spanish Americas, there was not a systematic extermination as happened in the USA.
On 14/05/2026 19:38, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
The problem of falling populations is twofold
- looking after the elderly
The problem with this is that the people looking after the
elderly will become old themselves someday, requiring still
more people to look after them. It will eventually go the
way of any other Ponzi scheme.
ER no. once the population is stable, the amount of senile care
needed is also stable
We probably won't have a crash.
Ultimately` there is enough sunlight water and nuclear energy to run a pretty big population.
If its stable the need to utilise new resources falls well below
recycling levels.
The problem is that all our social and financial structures are
based on an unspoken assumption of exponential growth.
Which simply isn't happening any more., hence the utter inability
of politicians to actually deal with it
But a counter argument is to look at the relative prosperity of English speaking colonies versus spanish speaking ones.
But they're still trying hard. Here in British Columbia the provincial government has overridden city planners in ten of our most populous
cities so that they can force re-zoning for more residential
construction. That way there will be room to cram in more people. Or
at least that's what they think - there's still a problem finding people
who can afford this housing even if it does get built. We not only need
more people, we need more rich people.
On Thu, 14 May 2026 23:28:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But they're still trying hard. Here in British Columbia the provincial
government has overridden city planners in ten of our most populous
cities so that they can force re-zoning for more residential
construction. That way there will be room to cram in more people. Or
at least that's what they think - there's still a problem finding people
who can afford this housing even if it does get built. We not only need
more people, we need more rich people.
This city seems to be building apartments and single family housing on any available space. Housing is no problem -- if you can afford $2000 for a basic 1 bedroom apartment or $500,000+ for a house.
On Thu, 14 May 2026 23:28:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But they're still trying hard. Here in British Columbia the provincial
government has overridden city planners in ten of our most populous
cities so that they can force re-zoning for more residential
construction. That way there will be room to cram in more people. Or
at least that's what they think - there's still a problem finding people
who can afford this housing even if it does get built. We not only need
more people, we need more rich people.
This city seems to be building apartments and single family housing on any available space. Housing is no problem -- if you can afford $2000 for a
basic 1 bedroom apartment or $500,000+ for a house.
On 2026-05-11 19:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A Mac makes it extremely easy to 'do stuff' that they have thought
of and implemented and almost impossible to 'do stuff' they
haven't.
I said the same of Windows, long ago.
On 2026-05-10 01:38, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 9 May 2026 22:02:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Laicolasse:~ # rpm -qa | grep -i yast
ItrCOs been a few years since I sat in front of an RPM-based system
(SuSE), but couldnrCOt this be written
-a-a-a-a rpm -qa name='*yast*'
?
<https://manpages.debian.org/rpm(8)>
Yes, true, but one learns some commands and not others :-)
On 14/05/2026 22:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-05-14 15:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Oh, no argument.
On 14/05/2026 13:55, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I mean english people of mixed english and caribbean african ancestryNot exactly.
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away...-a Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the >>>>>> natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc >>>>> etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper
integration.
Who are they?-a You mean English people born in the Carribean, or the >>>> other way around?
e.g "Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton was born on 7 January 1985 in
Stevenage, Hertfordshire. His father, Anthony Hamilton, is of Afro-
Grenadian descent, while his mother, Carmen Larbalestier, is White
British from Birmingham,making him mixed-race"
Its very clear, those places where the Spanish colonised, andNo, they are not. In e.g. Mexico there is a definite class system
assimilated into the native population, those places became "nowhere", >>>> whereas those places, clearly still Anglo are "somewhere".
based on how much Spanish and how much 'native Indian' is in your
ancestry.
I don't know myself, either way. But I know that there is a lot of
mixing in all of the Spanish Americas, there was not a systematic
extermination as happened in the USA.
But a counter argument is to look at the relative prosperity of English speaking colonies versus spanish speaking ones.
On 2026-05-15, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2026 23:28:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But they're still trying hard. Here in British Columbia the provincial
government has overridden city planners in ten of our most populous
cities so that they can force re-zoning for more residential
construction. That way there will be room to cram in more people. Or
at least that's what they think - there's still a problem finding people >>> who can afford this housing even if it does get built. We not only need >>> more people, we need more rich people.
This city seems to be building apartments and single family housing on any >> available space. Housing is no problem -- if you can afford $2000 for a
basic 1 bedroom apartment or $500,000+ for a house.
Here they're closer to $3000 and $1M respectively. The buzzword now is "laneway housing", i.e. building a cottage in the back yard and renting
it out. Still, I'm waiting for the day when single-family housing is
banned; it shouldn't be long before that happens here, at least for
new construction. For existing single-family dwellings, the trend
is to snap up at least half a block for a land assembly, bulldoze
the houses, and build an apartment or condo complex.
Q: Found it. It is: rpm -qa name='*yast*'
Yes rCo that works on some RPM implementations/shell environments because name= is treated as a query selector.
On 5/15/26 00:36, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2026 23:28:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
But they're still trying hard. Here in British Columbia the
provincial government has overridden city planners in ten of our most
populous cities so that they can force re-zoning for more residential
construction. That way there will be room to cram in more people. Or
at least that's what they think - there's still a problem finding
people who can afford this housing even if it does get built. We not
only need more people, we need more rich people.
This city seems to be building apartments and single family housing on
any available space. Housing is no problem -- if you can afford $2000
for a basic 1 bedroom apartment or $500,000+ for a house.
How many CAN afford that ???
Here in the falling apart USA we call those Accessory DwellingUnits.
ADU for short and even the show "This Old House" features them but first
you have to have land and a house. In one case a luxurious ADU is built
next to the Parent Home and they will live there while a son and family
will take over the origina dwelling.
On Fri, 15 May 2026 08:01:29 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Here in the falling apart USA we call those Accessory DwellingUnits.
ADU for short and even the show "This Old House" features them but first
you have to have land and a house. In one case a luxurious ADU is built
next to the Parent Home and they will live there while a son and family
will take over the origina dwelling.
Land might be a problem. In the area around SF I don't think many could
build a accessory doghouse.
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk of a failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so different
from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your GUI crashes, itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or just the GUI component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work done.
Le 10-05-2026, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> a |-crit-a:
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> writes:
There was a huge to-do about Win NT 4.0 allowing third party
graphics drivers direct access to the kernel. Back then the concern
was more about stability, blue screen of death, than it was about
security.
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk
of a failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so
different from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your
GUI crashes, itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or
just the GUI component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work
done.
I don't know for you or him, but about me, you are wrong. I never saw
swaywm crash, but if it ever happened, I would be in my TTY.
And I can do a lot of things with my command line. I'm sure about it
because I don't have a GUI to manage my login. The GUI starts once I'm connected, so if the GUI crash, I'm at the beginning, already
connected. And if my GUI freeze and I can't do anything about it
because it doesn't even crash, I would be able to switch to a TTY with [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F2] do some stuff to be at least able to kill my GUI.
On Windows, I have neither see nor heard any case of GUI crash with
anything else than a Blue Screen Of Death.
So, there's a big difference for me.
The context was Windows, not Linux.
-a-a-a Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early >> Bronze Age).
openSUSE, and previously SuSE (the non commercial versions) was
always "desktop agnostic".
On 14/05/2026 13:55, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:I mean english people of mixed english and caribbean african ancestry
On 13/05/2026 14:21, Borax Man wrote:
On 2026-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Not exactly.
"
On 12/05/2026 14:19, Borax Man wrote:
People have no issue seeing race. Look, progressives use race ALL the >>>>>> time! DEI and all that is predicated on race.
American history is not the be all and end all of the world. There are >>>>>> other countries.
You did not invent "race".
No, but they raised it to an art form.
"Based on archaeological and textual records from roughly 3000 BC to >>>>> 1200 BC, the Bronze Age was characterized by a diverse array of distinct >>>>> ethnic groups and civilizations, primarily defined by language,
city-state affiliation, and geographical region.
Here is a list of major Bronze Age ethnicities and groups:
Near East & Mesopotamia
================
Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early
Bronze Age).
Akkadians: Semitic-speaking people who dominated Mesopotamia under >>>>> the Akkadian Empire.
Amorites: A West Semitic people who became influential in
Mesopotamia and the Levant.
Assyrians: A major Semitic power in Northern Mesopotamia.
Babylonians: Centered in Southern Mesopotamia, notable for Amorite >>>>> and Kassite rule.
Kassites: A group that took over Babylon in the middle-to-late >>>>> Bronze Age.
Elamites: Centered on the Iranian plateau, often in conflict with >>>>> Mesopotamia.
Levant & Anatolia
===========
Canaanites: Various Semitic-speaking groups inhabiting the southern
Levant.
Hittites: A dominant Indo-European speaking power in Anatolia. >>>>> Hurrians: Inhabited areas of northern Mesopotamia and Syria,
forming the state of Mitanni.
Phoenicians: Maritime traders of the Levant coast.
Arameans: West Semitic people who became dominant in the Levant >>>>> late in the period.
Sea Peoples: A loose coalition of seafaring groups (e.g., Peleset, >>>>> Sherden, Lukka) active in the late Bronze Age.
Egypt & Nubia
=========
Ancient Egyptians: The dominant culture in the Nile Valley, highly >>>>> centralized.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the region south of Egypt, often
interacting with Egypt through trade or conflict.
Aegean & Mediterranean
================
Minoans: A distinctive culture based on the island of Crete.
Mycenaeans: Early Greek-speaking peoples on the Greek mainland, >>>>> often referred to as Achaeans.
Aeolian & Ionian Greeks: Various early Greek tribal groups.
Cypriots: Inhabitants of Cyprus, crucial in the copper trade. >>>>>
Asia & Central Asia
============
Shang Chinese: People of the Shang Dynasty in the Yellow River valley.
Indus Valley People: Creators of the Indus Valley Civilization. >>>>> BMAC People (BactriarCoMargiana): A culture in Central Asia known for
sedentary agriculture.
Andronovo Culture People: Pastoralists spanning a wide area of >>>>> Central Asia.
Europe
====
Corded Ware Culture People: Widespread in Northern/Eastern Europe >>>>> in the Early/Middle Bronze Age.
Bell Beaker People: Widespread across Western and Central Europe. >>>>> Nordic Bronze Age People: Associated with early Germanic speakers >>>>> in Scandinavia.
Celts/Proto-Celts: Emerging in the Atlantic Bronze Age regions" >>>>>
..and so on
Color ranged from jet black (Nubians) through to yellowish (Chinese) >>>>> brownish (proto Indo Europeans) and blue eyed whites from the polar
regions, Hair ranged from jet black to albino white with yellow, brown >>>>> ginger and flaming red as options.
The only thing they had in common was they liked to fuck. Anything and >>>>> everything. And legends of men with bulls heads or horses with men's >>>>> heads showed you how common they thought that was.
Sometimes one population overgrew its resources and went off to fuck >>>>> someone else's women and kill their men. Usually with [a] God on their >>>>> side...
All good for a diverse gene pool...
Diverse gene pools seems to fade away... Homogeneity continues.
The British when they colonised, kept their lineage distinct from the
natives, the Spanish, assimilated.
Plenty of anglo caribbean/anglo indian/anglo chinese/anglo Iranian etc
etc all over the place.
Nobody really cares exactly any more . As long as there is proper
integration.
Who are they? You mean English people born in the Carribean, or the other way around?
e.g "Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton was born on 7 January 1985 in Stevenage, Hertfordshire. His father, Anthony Hamilton, is of
Afro-Grenadian descent, while his mother, Carmen Larbalestier, is White British from Birmingham,making him mixed-race"
Its very clear, those places where the Spanish colonised, andNo, they are not. In e.g. Mexico there is a definite class system based
assimilated into the native population, those places became "nowhere",
whereas those places, clearly still Anglo are "somewhere".
on how much Spanish and how much 'native Indian' is in your ancestry.
That is why there this massive problem of the mixed descendents of theThat is when you have the problem. It is not the race or the skin color
Spanish in Latin America moving to the Anglos up north.
And you're right, few people care. But that means nothing. Maybe they
should care!
As for intergration, "as long as there is" is doing a lot of work here.
Thats the problem, the intergration is failing miserably.
that matters, it is the cultural norms and expectations.
Race matters for physic al attributes perhaps, but culture matters for social friction.
We're tired of "if we do it right". No, its doesnt work.
Agreed.
At some poi8nt there has to be a clear decision on basic issues. Like
which side of the toad you drive on, or whether or not women alone at
night are fair game for rape or should be considered to be safe. And
whether alcohol is acceptable or not
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rRhjqkwRGYA
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:51:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
openSUSE, and previously SuSE (the non commercial versions) was always
"desktop agnostic".
IrCOm pretty sure KDE was the default in the early days. Possibly the
default was removed when they got acquired by a Yanqui company.
Yes, Latin America is VERY perceptive of skin colour. That is why their
TV hosts are whiter than in the US.
Why? Well, I'll leave that to you to figure out. You may notice a
pattern. Why is there more segregration in areas which are mixed?
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:39:12 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
-a-a-a Sumerians: The earliest civilization in southern Mesopotamia (early
Bronze Age).
Second-earliest.
The problem with this is that the people looking after the elderly
will become old themselves someday, requiring still more people to
look after them.
It will eventually go the way of any other Ponzi scheme.
Le 10-05-2026, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> a |-crit-a:
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk of a >> failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so different
from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your GUI crashes,
itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or just the GUI
component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work done.
I don't know for you or him, but about me, you are wrong. I never saw
swaywm crash, but if it ever happened, I would be in my TTY. And I
can do a lot of things with my command line.
I'm sure about it because I
don't have a GUI to manage my login. The GUI starts once I'm connected,
so if the GUI crash, I'm at the beginning, already connected. And if my
GUI freeze and I can't do anything about it because it doesn't even
crash, I would be able to switch to a TTY with [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F2] do some stuff to be at least able to kill my GUI.
On Windows, I have neither see nor heard any case of GUI crash with
anything else than a Blue Screen Of Death.
So, there's a big difference for me.
On 5/15/26 20:58, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 10-05-2026, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> a |-crit-a:
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk of a >>> failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so different
from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your GUI crashes, >>> itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or just the GUI
component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work done.
I don't know for you or him, but about me, you are wrong. I never saw
swaywm crash, but if it ever happened, I would be in my TTY. And I
can do a lot of things with my command line.
Gnome on an Orange Pi 5 crashes/freezes a lot. I don't know why, but I accept the GPU drivers are flaky. I guess it is hard to build a reliable system on top of a flaky driver.
One of the biggest differences between MS Windows and Linux Gnome was
that crtl+alt+delete on MS Windows could often help you recover a frozen GUI.
On 5/15/26 20:58, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 10-05-2026, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> a |-crit-a:
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk of a >>> failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so different
from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your GUI crashes, >>> itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or just the GUI
component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work done.
I don't know for you or him, but about me, you are wrong. I never saw
swaywm crash, but if it ever happened, I would be in my TTY. And I
can do a lot of things with my command line.
Gnome on an Orange Pi 5 crashes/freezes a lot. I don't know why, but I accept the GPU drivers are flaky. I guess it is hard to build a reliable system on top of a flaky driver.
I'm sure about it because I
don't have a GUI to manage my login. The GUI starts once I'm connected,
so if the GUI crash, I'm at the beginning, already connected. And if my
GUI freeze and I can't do anything about it because it doesn't even
crash, I would be able to switch to a TTY with [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F2] do some
stuff to be at least able to kill my GUI.
On Windows, I have neither see nor heard any case of GUI crash with
anything else than a Blue Screen Of Death.
It was quite common to have the GUI freeze, to be able to logon from a remote machine and restart it.
One of the biggest differences between MS Windows and Linux Gnome was
that crtl+alt+delete on MS Windows could often help you recover a frozen GUI.
Le 17-05-2026, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> a |-crit-a:
On 5/15/26 20:58, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 10-05-2026, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> a |-crit-a: >>>>
I do wonder how much thatrCOs a real concern, not because of the risk of a >>>> failure but because the consequences of a failure arenrCOt so different >>>> from the end user perspective: on a desktop system, if your GUI crashes, >>>> itrCOs game over whether it crashes the whole machine or just the GUI
component. Either way, yourCOre not getting much work done.
I don't know for you or him, but about me, you are wrong. I never saw
swaywm crash, but if it ever happened, I would be in my TTY. And I
can do a lot of things with my command line.
Gnome on an Orange Pi 5 crashes/freezes a lot. I don't know why, but I
accept the GPU drivers are flaky. I guess it is hard to build a reliable
system on top of a flaky driver.
I don't know if the Orange Pi are designed to run Gnome. So, maybe it's
the drivers, maybe the Orange Pi has not enough ressources to run Gnome.
I really don't know.
What I know is that Gnome works fine for all the computers I saw, except
for the one who have an nvidia GPU. There, nvidia is not a good idea
with Linux. Even if things improved with AI, it's still far from good.
Mostly after a kernel update.
I'm sure about it because I
don't have a GUI to manage my login. The GUI starts once I'm connected,
so if the GUI crash, I'm at the beginning, already connected. And if my
GUI freeze and I can't do anything about it because it doesn't even
crash, I would be able to switch to a TTY with [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F2] do some >>> stuff to be at least able to kill my GUI.
On Windows, I have neither see nor heard any case of GUI crash with
anything else than a Blue Screen Of Death.
It was quite common to have the GUI freeze, to be able to logon from a
remote machine and restart it.
One of the biggest differences between MS Windows and Linux Gnome was
that crtl+alt+delete on MS Windows could often help you recover a frozen
GUI.
OK, ctrl+alt+delete don't work with Linux, but you just have to choose
the right combination. As I said, the ctrl+alt+FN always worked for me.
And if that's not enough, you always have the magic keys: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key>
For the ctrl+alt+delete, I would have agreed with the often on very old versions of Linux, but last time I checked, it never worked for me when
I needed it.
For me, a GUI freeze is easy to manage with Linux, and almost always impossible with Windows.
Gnome on an Orange Pi 5 crashes/freezes a lot. I don't know why, but I
accept the GPU drivers are flaky. I guess it is hard to build a reliable system on top of a flaky driver.
On Sun, 17 May 2026 08:01:30 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Gnome on an Orange Pi 5 crashes/freezes a lot. I don't know why, but I
accept the GPU drivers are flaky. I guess it is hard to build a reliable
system on top of a flaky driver.
Which base distro are you using? Trixie on the Raspberry Pi 5 using the Raspberry Pi OS labwc:wlroots has been stable for me. I've only hit a few things that don't work like vim-gtk. Regular vim is fine.
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