From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

I usually run MacOS on some older systems but a friend of mine gave me
a PC that is fairly recent and advised me to try installing Linux as
the system which previously had Windows was wiped clean.

So I installed Ubuntu which was suprisingly easy to do even for a
person like me who has never used Linux let alone installed an
operating system.
So most everything worked at least the basics like email, browsing,
sound, video and printing to my ancient HP printer.
So far so good.

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not at
all intuitive to me a MacOS user.
Maybe things are different for Windows users?
Things like consistency between applications was not there.
Gestures, displays and other basic things were a mixed bag.
There are many other lack of consistency type errors but I quickly
reached the conclusion that Linux was just not for me. Others will
certainly have differing opinions and that is fine.
--
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at
peace with you.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not
at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

So I installed Ubuntu

Ubuntu is *not* Linux.

Ubuntu has been created for fools like you.

Remember that.

Effing idiot.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sep 20, 2026 at 9:02:14rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not
at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

YOU do realize that changing the GUI on Linux is beyond the capabilities of USERS, right?

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.

MacOS is a Unix-type system. Maybe you are still in denial of the concept
that ALL Apple hardware runs the same Apple Unix OS with different GUIs. Because the GUI is modular and replaceable, just like all Unix-type systems.

Thus Macs, iPhones, iPads and Apple watches all run Apple Unix with very different GUIs.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:02:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

Sure.

Try choosing fvwm3 or any of the many, many other stacking/tiling
window managers on a "modern" wayland system. You will be SOL
(shit outa luck).

Your definition of "choice" is obviously "whatever IBM/RedHat says."

Effing idiot.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not at
all intuitive to me a MacOS user.
Maybe things are different for Windows users?

Actually GNOME usually appeals more to Mac users. KDE, Cinnamon, Xfce, and several other DEs are more similar to Windows. GNOME is sort of like the failed Windows 8 experiment.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:47:56 +0000, Leroy H wrote:

Try choosing fvwm3 or any of the many, many other stacking/tiling window managers on a "modern" wayland system. You will be SOL (shit outa
luck).

I use sway on Wayland and i3 on X11. There are a few things i3 does that
do not work in Wayland but nothing I miss.

It has more glitz than I need but Hyprland seems to work well with
Wayland. I have Omarchy up in a VM. Interesting but not my thing. Too much crap like HEY and WhatsApp that I have no use for and I prefer Vim to
Neovim. Like the DE ricers Neovim exists so people can spend their time writing Lua scripts to make it work.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 21 Sep 2026 02:41:22 GMT, rbowman wrote:

[snip]

The most important term in desktop computing is "minimalism."

It is a term that most users cannot understand but its significance
is profound.

My mantra:

Be minimal or be nothing.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:35:28 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

On Sep 20, 2026 at 9:02:14rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and
not at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

YOU do realize that changing the GUI on Linux is beyond the
capabilities of USERS, right?

Why, do you think it takes some kind of special voodoo black magic
beyond installing any other package?

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept
of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.

MacOS is a Unix-type system.

It is a licensee of the trademark, nothing more. And worse than that,
the version of the rCLUNIXrCY spec it conforms to is not the latest one,
but was last updated over 20 years ago.

And you certainly canrCOt install a different GUI on it.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

"Linonut" <linonut@kentuckydrystate.net>wrote:

I usually run MacOS on some older systems but a friend of mine gave me

a PC that is fairly recent and advised me to try installing Linux as
the system which previously had Windows was wiped clean.

So I installed Ubuntu which was suprisingly easy to do even for a
person like me who has never used Linux let alone installed an
operating system.
So most everything worked at least the basics like email, browsing,
sound, video and printing to my ancient HP printer.
So far so good.

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not at
all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

I installed Ubuntu on my laptop for the same reason,
get rid of the MS windows it came with and use Linux.

Then later a multi-boot option, Slackware, among others..

If you want to learn Unix then get a good book on Unix.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=book+the+Inix+operating+system
All depends on what you want to do,
There are many open source applications for Linux - for almost anything -.
Many distros, My Raspberry Pis run a Debian version, my Big PCs grml and Slackware.

Maybe things are different for Windows users?
Things like consistency between applications was not there.
Gestures, displays and other basic things were a mixed bag.
There are many other lack of consistency type errors but I quickly
reached the conclusion that Linux was just not for me. Others will
certainly have differing opinions and that is fine.

Every application has its own design, sure, that is how it should be :-)
Every restaurant serving the same food?
No

Write your own programs and make a GUI you like.
THAT is an - open source - possibility.
Much code available for free, much to learn from it, freedom!


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sep 21, 2026 at 12:14:58rC>AM MST, "Jan Panteltje" wrote <118qlhj$3pa7j$1@dont-email.me>:

"Linonut" <linonut@kentuckydrystate.net>wrote:

I usually run MacOS on some older systems but a friend of mine gave me

a PC that is fairly recent and advised me to try installing Linux as
the system which previously had Windows was wiped clean.

So I installed Ubuntu which was suprisingly easy to do even for a
person like me who has never used Linux let alone installed an
operating system.
So most everything worked at least the basics like email, browsing,
sound, video and printing to my ancient HP printer.
So far so good.

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not at
all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

I installed Ubuntu on my laptop for the same reason,
get rid of the MS windows it came with and use Linux.

Then later a multi-boot option, Slackware, among others..

If you want to learn Unix then get a good book on Unix.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=book+the+Inix+operating+system
All depends on what you want to do,
There are many open source applications for Linux - for almost anything -. Many distros, My Raspberry Pis run a Debian version, my Big PCs grml and Slackware.

Maybe things are different for Windows users?
Things like consistency between applications was not there.
Gestures, displays and other basic things were a mixed bag.
There are many other lack of consistency type errors but I quickly
reached the conclusion that Linux was just not for me. Others will
certainly have differing opinions and that is fine.

Every application has its own design, sure, that is how it should be :-) Every restaurant serving the same food?
No

Write your own programs and make a GUI you like.
THAT is an - open source - possibility.
Much code available for free, much to learn from it, freedom!

Just know Linonut is a troll... likely another Carroll sock.
--
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-20 9:02 p.m., Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not
at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.

To be honest, I don't see much difference between the default Ubuntu experience and the MacOS one other than the fact that Apple's version is polished.
--
CrudeSausage
John 14:6
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Leroy H wrote:

Ubuntu is *not* Linux.
Ubuntu has been created for fools like you.
Remember that.

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-21 8:46 p.m., Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

I'll be honest with you. If it were determined tomorrow that MacOS isn't
a true UNIX, absolutely nothing would change in my life. I would still
enjoy my experience using the operating system and the company's stellar hardware.
--
CrudeSausage
John 14:6
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sep 20, 2026 at 11:13:20rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:35:28 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

On Sep 20, 2026 at 9:02:14rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and
not at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

YOU do realize that changing the GUI on Linux is beyond the
capabilities of USERS, right?

Why, do you think it takes some kind of special voodoo black magic
beyond installing any other package?

For a USER, yes.

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept
of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.

MacOS is a Unix-type system.

It is a licensee of the trademark, nothing more. And worse than that,
the version of the rCLUNIXrCY spec it conforms to is not the latest one,
but was last updated over 20 years ago.

And exactly how recent Unix spec does Linux conform to? And which version of Linux is that?

And you certainly canrCOt install a different GUI on it.

Why would you want to? And you certainly could if the full source code was available. But of course that is not available. Nor should it be.

AGAIN, Apple Unix already has several GUIs. Interesting how you snipped that.
MacOS, iOS, iPadOS and WatchOS are all Apple Unix, but with different GUIs specifically designed for the hardware in question.

AGAIN, Apple Unix is Unix. That you can't stand that is YOUR problem. Not Apple's.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 22 Sep 2026 01:25:09 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

Unix is not so much important as is POSIX.

The GNU C Library, which is perhaps the most critical portion of the GNU/Linux OS, conforms absolutely to POSIX standards.

I am not sure if that made-for-pussies Apphole OS is POSIX compliant. I could do some research but I will not waste my time on an effeminate system that is designed for little girls.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 21:13:27 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I'll be honest with you. If it were determined tomorrow that MacOS isn't
a true UNIX, absolutely nothing would change in my life. I would still
enjoy my experience using the operating system and the company's stellar hardware.

I've spent enough time on AIX, IBM's Unix variant based on System V and certified under the Single UNIX Specification that being a True UNIX
doesn't impress me.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 22 Sep 2026 01:25:09 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses
Unix as the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in
fact - the most popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I don't have a dog in the fight but I'll throw this out:

https://www.osnews.com/story/141633/apples-macos-unix-certification-is-a-
lie/

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 22 Sep 2026 01:25:09 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro"
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple
uses Unix as the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix
is - in fact - the most popular version of Unix in the 50 year
history of Unix.

rCLUnixrCY ... you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you
think it means.

Does it mean conforming to an old, obsolete spec that was last updated
over 20 years ago, instead of the most up-to-date version?

Does it mean not even actually conforming to that spec in the default configuration that Mac buyers receive? Yet the trademark owners allow
this kind of playing fast and loose with the compliance requirements,
without those buyers (like yourself) realizing it? So you think yourCOre getting an rCLofficial UnixrCY system out of the box, but yourCOre not?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 22 Sep 2026 01:20:14 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

On Sep 20, 2026 at 11:13:20rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:35:28 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

On Sep 20, 2026 at 9:02:14rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro"
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 00:37:17 -0000 (UTC), Linonut wrote:

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and
not at all intuitive to me a MacOS user.

You do realize you donrCOt just have one choice of GUIs, right?

YOU do realize that changing the GUI on Linux is beyond the
capabilities of USERS, right?

Why, do you think it takes some kind of special voodoo black magic
beyond installing any other package?

For a USER, yes.

It doesnrCOt. Here are the steps:

* Fire up your favourite GUI package-management front-end. This is the
same one you use to install the various distro-provided apps you
want to use on your system.
* Choose the GUI environment you want to install. Typically there will
be one base package that pulls in all the rest of the core environment.
* After the appropriate packages have installed, log out of your
current GUI session.
* In the login screen, besides the entry of username and password, you
should also see a menu letting you choose which GUI environment to
activate.
* Make your choices, and log in.
* Enjoy your new environment.

Notice I didnrCOt say rCLreboot the systemrCY. ThatrCOs not necessary. In Unix-type systems, GUIs are strictly a userland thing, and choice of
GUI doesnrCOt impact the kernel in any way.

Linux is a Unix-type system. Maybe yourCOre not used to the concept
of Unix-type systems, where the GUI is modular and replaceable.

MacOS is a Unix-type system.

It is a licensee of the trademark, nothing more. And worse than that,
the version of the rCLUNIXrCY spec it conforms to is not the latest one,
but was last updated over 20 years ago.

And exactly how recent Unix spec does Linux conform to?

The rCLUnixrCY trademark is now worthless. The fact that Apple has been
able to get permission to use it, in the way it got that permission,
proves it.

AGAIN, Apple Unix already has several GUIs. Interesting how you
snipped that. MacOS, iOS, iPadOS and WatchOS are all Apple Unix, but
with different GUIs

Umm, bullshit. It is only macOS that has achieved any kind of rCLUnixrCY certification.

And you certainly canrCOt install a different GUI on it.

Why would you want to?

Because of the subject of this thread.

If yourCOre already forgotten what it was about, it was a user
complaining they didnrCOt like a particular Linux GUI. They seemed to be
under the impression that it was rCLtherCY Linux GUI, that they didnrCOt
have a choice.

That kind of misunderstanding is typical of those who come from the
proprietary Microsoft and Apple worlds, who are unfamiliar with how
Unix-type systems work.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-22 12:26 a.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 21:13:27 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I'll be honest with you. If it were determined tomorrow that MacOS isn't
a true UNIX, absolutely nothing would change in my life. I would still
enjoy my experience using the operating system and the company's stellar
hardware.

I've spent enough time on AIX, IBM's Unix variant based on System V and certified under the Single UNIX Specification that being a True UNIX
doesn't impress me.

At best, if it were determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that MacOS is
UNIX, it might shut up some fat bearded guy who wouldn't buy Apple
hardware anyway. The company has no reason to try to appeal to these people.
--
CrudeSausage
John 14:6
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.

I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.
--
A man is known by the company he organizes.
-- Ambrose Bierce
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-22 11:36 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.

I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.

There is little benefit for Mac users to go into the command line. Even
to remove remnants of software like I just had to do, I found it easier
to just use the finder and locate those programs. Using the rm command
was no simpler than selecting the garbage I found and moving it to the
trash.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 9/21/2026 1:08 PM, Chris Abraham wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Leroy H wrote:

Ubuntu is *not* Linux.
Ubuntu has been created for fools like you.
Remember that.

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mint is a great distro, actually. Some also like Ubuntu, I never had
good luck with it myself.
--
Joel W. Crump
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-23, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/21/2026 1:08 PM, Chris Abraham wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Leroy H wrote:

Ubuntu is *not* Linux.
Ubuntu has been created for fools like you.
Remember that.

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mint is a great distro, actually. Some also like Ubuntu, I never had
good luck with it myself.

LinuxMint is good. Better than Ubuntu IMO as I have never had much luck with Ubuntu.
Still overall I prefer MXLinux which does everything I need. It includes the MXtools
which are applets that put an easy to use GUI onto typical Linux admin tools. Over the many years that I have been using Linux I have found that the Debian based
distributions seem to work the best for me.

As for switching desktop environments , in the past this was indeed a trying exercise.
So if you wanted to go from say kde to gnome it could be quite challenging for a new user.

Currently, at least for MXLinux, it's simple to do.
Select the DE you are interested in from the package manager, install it and upon boot it
will show in the login menu at the top of the screen
And your settings will transfer over to the other DE you have installed.
I think I have 7 DE installed as I like a choice.
All work perfectly.
Even history in terminal applications transfers over.
--
pothead

"The goal of socialism is Communism"
-- Vladimir Lenin

"Communism may be summed up in a single sentence: 'Abolition of private property"
-- Karl Marx

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other
people's money"
-- Margaret Thatcher
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Wed, 23 Sep 2026 01:23:23 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

LinuxMint is good. Better than Ubuntu IMO as I have never had much luck
with Ubuntu. Still overall I prefer MXLinux which does everything I
need. It includes the MXtools which are applets that put an easy to use
GUI onto typical Linux admin tools.
Over the many years that I have been using Linux I have found that the
Debian based distributions seem to work the best for me.

I have MX up in a VM and I like it. If I were going to replace Mint on the
old netbook it would be with MX.

I did hit something strange. I've created VMs using kvm/QEMU for
everything from the Lunduke Computer Operating System to Omarchy with no problems and acceptable performance. I wanted to try openMandriva for old times sake since Mandrake was a distro I used back around 2000. The
initial live session was very sluggish. Hitting the Install button went through the motions with no errors but then the reboot died at 'reading
from the harddisk. Odd. It was the KDE/x11 iso. I don't know if the KDE/ Wayland would work better.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-21, Linonut <linonut@kentuckydrystate.net> wrote:

I usually run MacOS on some older systems but a friend of mine gave me
a PC that is fairly recent and advised me to try installing Linux as
the system which previously had Windows was wiped clean.

So I installed Ubuntu which was suprisingly easy to do even for a
person like me who has never used Linux let alone installed an
operating system.
So most everything worked at least the basics like email, browsing,
sound, video and printing to my ancient HP printer.
So far so good.

Right off the bat I found the Ubuntu gui to be somewhat odd and not at
all intuitive to me a MacOS user.
Maybe things are different for Windows users?
Things like consistency between applications was not there.
Gestures, displays and other basic things were a mixed bag.
There are many other lack of consistency type errors but I quickly
reached the conclusion that Linux was just not for me. Others will
certainly have differing opinions and that is fine.

I'm not a huge fan of Gnome either. I prefer Cinnamon.
--
Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Jews. Zionism rea Judaism.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-22, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> >> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.

I agree.

I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.

I never have been interested. It always turns into a male ego mine is bigger than yours
discussion.
Use what you like and don't expect others to agree.
--
pothead

"The goal of socialism is Communism"
-- Vladimir Lenin

"Communism may be summed up in a single sentence: 'Abolition of private property"
-- Karl Marx

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other
people's money"
-- Margaret Thatcher
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

On 2026-09-22, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on
their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.

I agree.

I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.

I never have been interested. It always turns into a male ego mine is bigger than yours
discussion.
Use what you like and don't expect others to agree.

I agree with that. The argument ALWAYS comes down to rCLThe software I use
is for men and therefore I am a man. Whatever YOU use is for pussies and therefore you are a pussyrCY.

Yawn.

But I am just pointing out facts here. I personally believe that the rCLsoftware must be freerCY crowd just canrCOt handle the fact that:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

(2) The most popular version of Linux is Android, which is also controlled
by a trillion dollar corporation. In fact, Android is the most used OS in
the world, with around 4 billion users.

Those are facts, folks. Feel free to stamp your feet and deny them.
That is, if you enjoy going through life denying reality.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 9/27/2026 8:21 PM, Nick Charles wrote:

I personally believe that the
rCLsoftware must be freerCY crowd just canrCOt handle the fact that:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

How many people are doing "Unix" stuff with the Apple smartwatch? Heh.
No, *only* macOS is really meaningfully even *capable* of serving this function, and it does so well *among those who use it for that purpose*.

(2) The most popular version of Linux is Android, which is also controlled
by a trillion dollar corporation. In fact, Android is the most used OS in the world, with around 4 billion users.

Android like many things uses the Linux kernel as a base, we know, it
isn't a "version of Linux", though, because that would necessarily refer
to desktop/PC GNU/Linux, or on a server/etc.

Those are facts, folks. Feel free to stamp your feet and deny them.
That is, if you enjoy going through life denying reality.

When you hallucinate that your freakin' smartwatch is a Unix
environment, I think you're the one with a problem with sense of reality.
--
Joel W. Crump
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) ...

Of those, only macOS is actually entitled to use the rCLUnixrCY trademark.
And even that was granted on somewhat dubious grounds, as I pointed
out elsewhere.

The most popular Unix-type OS remains Linux.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-27 8:21 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

On 2026-09-22, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

Nick Charles wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

On Sep 21, 2026 at 8:46:53rC>PM EDT, "Lawrence D-|Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:08:31 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

I must really suck: I am running Linux Mint!

Mmmm ... sucking on a tasty Mint. The flavour that lasts all day!

DonrCOt you love those Mac fan(atic)s who run away when challenged on >>>>> their (mis)use of the term rCLUnixrCY?

Actually, I love the Linux fan(atics) who can't handle that Apple uses Unix as
the base OS for all of their hardware. That Apple Unix is - in fact - the most
popular version of Unix in the 50 year history of Unix.

I'm pretty sure that vast majority of Mac users never touch the
UNIX parts directly.

I agree.

I could be wrong, but even if so, not interested in popularity
contests anymore.

I never have been interested. It always turns into a male ego mine is bigger than yours
discussion.
Use what you like and don't expect others to agree.

I agree with that. The argument ALWAYS comes down to rCLThe software I use is for men and therefore I am a man. Whatever YOU use is for pussies and therefore you are a pussyrCY.

Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have already
done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.

Yawn.

But I am just pointing out facts here. I personally believe that the rCLsoftware must be freerCY crowd just canrCOt handle the fact that:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

(2) The most popular version of Linux is Android, which is also controlled
by a trillion dollar corporation. In fact, Android is the most used OS in the world, with around 4 billion users.

Those are facts, folks. Feel free to stamp your feet and deny them.
That is, if you enjoy going through life denying reality.

Even if you remove the Apple and Google influence from open-source,
there is no denying that IBM/Red Hat is doing most of the leg work in
that community. If not them, then Canonical and System76. That is why
there is a lot of the Rust infection going around.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-27 11:37 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.

I've said it before: not one Apple users gives a hoot whether MacOS,
iOS, tvOS or watchOS have UNIX certification. They would merrily
continue using Apple products even if the company were banned from
putting the UNIX label on its creations. At no time in my day do I say
"Gee willickers, this software sure would be neater if adhered to the standards set by neck-bearded fat men who are never pleased!"
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:58:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2026-09-27 11:37 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.

I've said it before: not one Apple users gives a hoot whether MacOS,
iOS, tvOS or watchOS have UNIX certification. They would merrily
continue using Apple products even if the company were banned from
putting the UNIX label on its creations. At no time in my day do I say
"Gee willickers, this software sure would be neater if adhered to the standards set by neck-bearded fat men who are never pleased!"

As I've said I don't see UNIX certification to be a selling point and
don't know why Apple users find it important. AIX is UNIX V7 compliant but
not something I'd want for a daily driver.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have already
done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.

DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.

openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in a
VM for some reason.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-28 2:01 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:58:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2026-09-27 11:37 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 00:21:47 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

(1) The most popular version of Unix is Apple Unix (MacOS, iOS,
iPadOS,
WatchOS, tvOS) and is controlled by a trillion dollar corporation and

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

There isn't much competition for the most popular certified Unix.

I've said it before: not one Apple users gives a hoot whether MacOS,
iOS, tvOS or watchOS have UNIX certification. They would merrily
continue using Apple products even if the company were banned from
putting the UNIX label on its creations. At no time in my day do I say
"Gee willickers, this software sure would be neater if adhered to the
standards set by neck-bearded fat men who are never pleased!"

As I've said I don't see UNIX certification to be a selling point and
don't know why Apple users find it important.

I agree that the certification is meaningless. If it were that important
to people, the many UNIX variants through the 90s and 2000s would have
sold machines. They didn't.

AIX is UNIX V7 compliant but
not something I'd want for a daily driver.

Unfortunately, gigantic geeks think that the world wants computing to be
as complicated as they like it. In reality, people enjoy convenience, simplicity and intuitive design a lot more than they do a terminal with
lots of complicated commands. Both as rock-solid nowadays, so there is
no reason to opt for the one which can apparently run servers for decades.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-28 2:05 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have already
done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.

DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.

openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in a
VM for some reason.

Some of their releases are bootable from a thumb drive, some are not. I
don't know why so many distributions don't work when loaded onto thumb
drives, but Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Pop_OS! and Fedora always work. Either
way, that inconsistency is part of why I lost interest in not only Linux
but the PC in general. It is truly bizarre to be using a computer that I
don't need to run repair commands on, and which will probably never need
to be reinstalled.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 17:40:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2026-09-28 2:05 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have
already done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.

DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.

openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in
a VM for some reason.

Some of their releases are bootable from a thumb drive, some are not. I
don't know why so many distributions don't work when loaded onto thumb drives, but Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Pop_OS! and Fedora always work. Either
way, that inconsistency is part of why I lost interest in not only Linux
but the PC in general. It is truly bizarre to be using a computer that I don't need to run repair commands on, and which will probably never need
to be reinstalled.

https://www.openmandriva.org/info-rome/

"If in doubt, take the first one." so I did, Plasma X11. The host is Fedora/KDE/Wayland but that shouldn't make a difference. MX/Xfce/X11 works fine. Creating the kvm/QEMU VM from the iso resulted in a very sluggish session. Installing from there seemed to work but on reboot after
installation it hung. I don't know if Plasma/Wayland would have been
better. It's an older Intel processor so the AMD builds are out.

It was curiosity since I had used Mandrake 8.0 back in the day. It was one
of the easiest distros to get running.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 14:12:23 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I agree that the certification is meaningless. If it were that important
to people, the many UNIX variants through the 90s and 2000s would have
sold machines. They didn't.

They sold machines, just not to consumers. A company I worked for had *nix
on a PDP-11, not exactly what Pop is going to pick up at Computer World.

* in the late '70s Research Linux was free for educational institutions. Since this was Boston UNIX somehow slipped out the back door of places
like MIT and wandered the streets looking for a home. Like many fugitives
it adopted aliases, most of which ended in 'nix'.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-28 8:23 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 17:40:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2026-09-28 2:05 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 10:56:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Open-source seems to turn people into pussies, at the very least. I
can't help but notice that the people leading open-source projects
nowadays are all either looking to cut off their penises or have
already done so. They also advocate for others to do the same.

DHH would be happy to lend them a knife. It's fun watching them foam at
the mouth when Omarchy or Hyprland are mentioned.

openMandriva is also not infected with DEI but I can't get it going in
a VM for some reason.

Some of their releases are bootable from a thumb drive, some are not. I
don't know why so many distributions don't work when loaded onto thumb
drives, but Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Pop_OS! and Fedora always work. Either
way, that inconsistency is part of why I lost interest in not only Linux
but the PC in general. It is truly bizarre to be using a computer that I
don't need to run repair commands on, and which will probably never need
to be reinstalled.

https://www.openmandriva.org/info-rome/

"If in doubt, take the first one." so I did, Plasma X11. The host is Fedora/KDE/Wayland but that shouldn't make a difference. MX/Xfce/X11 works fine. Creating the kvm/QEMU VM from the iso resulted in a very sluggish session. Installing from there seemed to work but on reboot after installation it hung. I don't know if Plasma/Wayland would have been
better. It's an older Intel processor so the AMD builds are out.

Since I killed my PC laptop, I decided to "upgrade" to an Intel-based replacement through the purchase of a used MSI GF75 Thin I found at the
nearby second-hand store. I bought it _only_ to complete the backlog of
PC games I have, but I was happy to learn that the idiotic fTPM
stuttering AMD processor come with doesn't affect this particular
machine. As such, I can hold onto Windows and not bother with Linux (to
escape fTPM) like I did on the previous hardware. Nevertheless, that PC
is a representation of everything wrong with the PC market: the battery
lasts an hour or so (this one is 50% worn, but even new it didn't last
more than two hours), the body is plastic made to look like metal, the
screen is about 1/4 the brightness of the MacBook Air, and Windows is
clunky even if it responds fairly well. As such, it serves not only as a modest game machine but a reminder of why I should remain with the Mac.
On the bright side, it is incredibly easy to repair and upgrade, and
changing the battery won't potentially kill the unit the way ASUS's
machine did. Repairability and upgradeability are pretty much the only advantages of having a PC nowadays.

It was curiosity since I had used Mandrake 8.0 back in the day. It was one
of the easiest distros to get running.

I recall trying out Mandrake for that reason. Unfortunately, the product itself was shite. Everything felt like it was put together like some
LEGO model. I'm pretty sure that it crashed constantly.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-28 8:40 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 14:12:23 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I agree that the certification is meaningless. If it were that important
to people, the many UNIX variants through the 90s and 2000s would have
sold machines. They didn't.

They sold machines, just not to consumers. A company I worked for had *nix
on a PDP-11, not exactly what Pop is going to pick up at Computer World.

* in the late '70s Research Linux was free for educational institutions. Since this was Boston UNIX somehow slipped out the back door of places
like MIT and wandered the streets looking for a home. Like many fugitives
it adopted aliases, most of which ended in 'nix'.

Considering how open people were to learning computers back in the 80s,
I think it might have been a mistake not to load UNIX on a few of them.
Most of the hardware was underpowered, but I'm sure that something like
an Atari ST or an Amiga would have done a decent job with it had they
not opted for a more user-friendly interface. However, I think that even
then, it would have been introduced to users much in the way that it is
with MacOS: it's there, but you don't have to touch it.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:39:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Considering how open people were to learning computers back in the 80s,
I think it might have been a mistake not to load UNIX on a few of them.
Most of the hardware was underpowered, but I'm sure that something like
an Atari ST or an Amiga would have done a decent job with it had they
not opted for a more user-friendly interface. However, I think that even then,
it would have been introduced to users much in the way that it is with
MacOS: it's there, but you don't have to touch it.

The problem with UNIX was licensing. Bell Labs was in a strange position
as part of the Bell System empire as more people were looking at it as a monopoly. They couldn't market the earlier versions of 'research unix' although they could give it to colleges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix

Xenix' history is even more convoluted. When AT&T finally got around to selling/licensing UNIX Microsoft dropped out. Then came SCO.

Licensing has always been a mess and as something designed to be a
multiuser OS it would be overkill in the consumer PC market with the costs attached.

I know nothing about the Mac world. Does Apple still have a product like
OS X Server?

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:34:15 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Since I killed my PC laptop, I decided to "upgrade" to an Intel-based replacement through the purchase of a used MSI GF75 Thin I found at the nearby second-hand store. I bought it _only_ to complete the backlog of
PC games I have, but I was happy to learn that the idiotic fTPM
stuttering AMD processor come with doesn't affect this particular
machine. As such, I can hold onto Windows and not bother with Linux (to escape fTPM) like I did on the previous hardware. Nevertheless, that PC
is a representation of everything wrong with the PC market: the battery
lasts an hour or so (this one is 50% worn, but even new it didn't last
more than two hours), the body is plastic made to look like metal, the
screen is about 1/4 the brightness of the MacBook Air, and Windows is
clunky even if it responds fairly well. As such, it serves not only as a modest game machine but a reminder of why I should remain with the Mac.
On the bright side, it is incredibly easy to repair and upgrade, and
changing the battery won't potentially kill the unit the way ASUS's
machine did. Repairability and upgradeability are pretty much the only advantages of having a PC nowadays.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GF75-Thin-10SDR-Laptop-Review-For- Budget-Gamers.497939.0.html

As usual, you buy 'budget' Windows computers and complain they're not as polished as expensive Macs. You get what you pay for.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-29 3:28 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:39:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Considering how open people were to learning computers back in the 80s,
I think it might have been a mistake not to load UNIX on a few of them.
Most of the hardware was underpowered, but I'm sure that something like
an Atari ST or an Amiga would have done a decent job with it had they
not opted for a more user-friendly interface. However, I think that even
then,
it would have been introduced to users much in the way that it is with
MacOS: it's there, but you don't have to touch it.

The problem with UNIX was licensing. Bell Labs was in a strange position
as part of the Bell System empire as more people were looking at it as a monopoly. They couldn't market the earlier versions of 'research unix' although they could give it to colleges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix

Xenix' history is even more convoluted. When AT&T finally got around to selling/licensing UNIX Microsoft dropped out. Then came SCO.

Licensing has always been a mess and as something designed to be a
multiuser OS it would be overkill in the consumer PC market with the costs attached.

I know nothing about the Mac world. Does Apple still have a product like
OS X Server?

As far as I know, the company does. However, I can't imagine that Apple
too deeply into the market since their hardware in that category is
seldom mentioned by the Mac news sites (9to5 Mac, MacRumors, etc.). At
some point, I get the impression that Apple realized the creative users
are their most important customers, not the server people, and decided
to cater to them the most.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-29 3:34 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:34:15 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

Since I killed my PC laptop, I decided to "upgrade" to an Intel-based
replacement through the purchase of a used MSI GF75 Thin I found at the
nearby second-hand store. I bought it _only_ to complete the backlog of
PC games I have, but I was happy to learn that the idiotic fTPM
stuttering AMD processor come with doesn't affect this particular
machine. As such, I can hold onto Windows and not bother with Linux (to
escape fTPM) like I did on the previous hardware. Nevertheless, that PC
is a representation of everything wrong with the PC market: the battery
lasts an hour or so (this one is 50% worn, but even new it didn't last
more than two hours), the body is plastic made to look like metal, the
screen is about 1/4 the brightness of the MacBook Air, and Windows is
clunky even if it responds fairly well. As such, it serves not only as a
modest game machine but a reminder of why I should remain with the Mac.
On the bright side, it is incredibly easy to repair and upgrade, and
changing the battery won't potentially kill the unit the way ASUS's
machine did. Repairability and upgradeability are pretty much the only
advantages of having a PC nowadays.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GF75-Thin-10SDR-Laptop-Review-For- Budget-Gamers.497939.0.html

As usual, you buy 'budget' Windows computers and complain they're not as polished as expensive Macs. You get what you pay for.

To be fair, the previous machine was a Zephyrus G14. That wasn't a
budget gaming laptop by any means. This one, as well, is a budget
_gaming_ laptop. That, by itself, usually means that it will cost more
than your typical run-of-the-mill Windows laptop. However, I bought it
knowing that I wasn't going to get the top of the line. I just wanted something with the same GPU the old one had, simply to have the same
kind of power when completing my backlog.

This machine has no battery life, a plastic finish meant to look like
brushed metal, and a screen that isn't too bright. Like I said, you can upgrade and repair fairly easily, but even putting a new battery in
there won't improve the experience because it was never great to begin
with. It also comes with what is meant to be a decent wireless chip in
the Intel AX201, but in practise, it's pretty awful compared to what
Apple gives you on the base MacBook. When I used it at work one day, it
kept disconnecting from the wireless whereas the Apple never has such problems.

On the older, premium laptop I killed, its own wireless chip was a
MediaTek MT7921. Do a search on the web and see how many people complain
about how awful it is. It was so bad - on a premium laptop - that people
with no repair experience were willing to open their machines to switch
it with an Intel one. The default configuration of the laptop also
enabled some sort of processor boost which caused increased the
processor temperature to insane levels. That isn't what I would consider
to be premium experience. It provided me with good battery life, but
only if I was willing to let Windows disable the discrete GPU when not
in use. It also had a fingerprint reader like every new Mac, but it
would almost never recognize the fingerprint on the first try. You
always had to try three times and then get a dialog from Windows telling
you that you might as well put in your password. What's the point of a fingerprint reader if it doesn't even work as intended?

However, what sucks most about these machines, premium and budget, is
that neither can be used while lying down on a bed. If you want to do
that, you have no choice but to put a stand underneath to let the hot
air escape. Otherwise, you'll be hearing fans which won't sound any
different than a hair dryer, or you'll cause the machine to overheat and
shut down. None of this is a problem with even the most typical recent
Mac. Maybe the mediocre Intel stock, but not the Apple silicon releases.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:35:19 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

As far as I know, the company does. However, I can't imagine that Apple
too deeply into the market since their hardware in that category is
seldom mentioned by the Mac news sites (9to5 Mac, MacRumors, etc.). At
some point, I get the impression that Apple realized the creative users
are their most important customers, not the server people, and decided
to cater to them the most.

That's been my impression too since the days of the Apple II. Desktop publishing, artwork, and so forth, certainly not C programmers since the keyboard was missing some essential characters without doing some mapping. Then there was the Z-80 SoftCard to turn it into a CP/M machine in case
you wanted to run business software or program in something other than
BASIC or 6502 assembler.

Even today Apple gets a lot of product placement but the people you see working on the laptops with the familiar logo aren't programmers.

As I've said many times I don't have anything against Apple but nobody
ever wanted to pay me to develop Apple software so I had no cause to buy
their hardware. The company did buy a Mac Mini to compile an iOS app but
the project ultimately was dropped. Getting into the walled garden was too much of a hassle.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 17:06:33 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On the older, premium laptop I killed, its own wireless chip was a
MediaTek MT7921. Do a search on the web and see how many people complain about how awful it is. It was so bad - on a premium laptop - that people
with no repair experience were willing to open their machines to switch
it with an Intel one.

The BeeLink mini I run Ubuntu on has a "MEDIATEK MT7921K 6E 80MHz". I have
has no problems whatsoever. The Qualcomm Atheros on the older Dell box
was slow and tended to drop out.

The real PITA is the Broadcom in the old Acer netbook. Most distros don't recognize it some I use a Panda dongle for the install and then update the driver so it works.

When Mint went from the 6.13 kernel to 6.17 I again had problems with
dkms. Oddly I found the solution on a Mac forum.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-29 10:27 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:35:19 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

As far as I know, the company does. However, I can't imagine that Apple
too deeply into the market since their hardware in that category is
seldom mentioned by the Mac news sites (9to5 Mac, MacRumors, etc.). At
some point, I get the impression that Apple realized the creative users
are their most important customers, not the server people, and decided
to cater to them the most.

That's been my impression too since the days of the Apple II. Desktop publishing, artwork, and so forth, certainly not C programmers since the keyboard was missing some essential characters without doing some mapping. Then there was the Z-80 SoftCard to turn it into a CP/M machine in case
you wanted to run business software or program in something other than
BASIC or 6502 assembler.

Even today Apple gets a lot of product placement but the people you see working on the laptops with the familiar logo aren't programmers.

As I've said many times I don't have anything against Apple but nobody
ever wanted to pay me to develop Apple software so I had no cause to buy their hardware. The company did buy a Mac Mini to compile an iOS app but
the project ultimately was dropped. Getting into the walled garden was too much of a hassle.

I fear that ha a lot to do with why gaming is not stronger on the
platform. Clearly, the hardware is capable of running a good chunk of
the games out there, but few companies are bothering to port their stuff
to Metal because the numbers just aren't there. Even if there are
millions of people using Apple hardware, those millions won't
necessarily buy a game. Those who would have swallowed their pride and
bought a PC suited for that purpose, even if they don't like the
operating system or the hardware.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-29 10:43 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 17:06:33 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

On the older, premium laptop I killed, its own wireless chip was a
MediaTek MT7921. Do a search on the web and see how many people complain
about how awful it is. It was so bad - on a premium laptop - that people
with no repair experience were willing to open their machines to switch
it with an Intel one.

The BeeLink mini I run Ubuntu on has a "MEDIATEK MT7921K 6E 80MHz". I have has no problems whatsoever. The Qualcomm Atheros on the older Dell box
was slow and tended to drop out.

The real PITA is the Broadcom in the old Acer netbook. Most distros don't recognize it some I use a Panda dongle for the install and then update the driver so it works.

When Mint went from the 6.13 kernel to 6.17 I again had problems with
dkms. Oddly I found the solution on a Mac forum.

I don't remember whether I tried Linux with the MediaTek MT7921, but it
is possible that it would have worked better than in Windows.
Nevertheless, I recall reading a lot of Linux-based complaints of that
chip, so I can't imagine that it was stellar. I also can't help but
notice that your model has a K at the end, probably indicating that it
is a revision that fixes the initial hardware's many problems.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 12:01:52 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I fear that ha a lot to do with why gaming is not stronger on the
platform. Clearly, the hardware is capable of running a good chunk of
the games out there, but few companies are bothering to port their stuff
to Metal because the numbers just aren't there. Even if there are
millions of people using Apple hardware, those millions won't
necessarily buy a game. Those who would have swallowed their pride and
bought a PC suited for that purpose, even if they don't like the
operating system or the hardware.

Between the hoops you have to jump through to get in the Apple store and
the cut Apple wants from in game revenue game developers seen greener
pastures elsewhere.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2026-09-30 2:15 p.m., rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 12:01:52 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

I fear that ha a lot to do with why gaming is not stronger on the
platform. Clearly, the hardware is capable of running a good chunk of
the games out there, but few companies are bothering to port their stuff
to Metal because the numbers just aren't there. Even if there are
millions of people using Apple hardware, those millions won't
necessarily buy a game. Those who would have swallowed their pride and
bought a PC suited for that purpose, even if they don't like the
operating system or the hardware.

Between the hoops you have to jump through to get in the Apple store and
the cut Apple wants from in game revenue game developers seen greener pastures elsewhere.

Honestly, you're probably right. Apple will need to make its platform a
lot more indispensable before developers treat it like a priority.
However, the games that do run natively, like Civilization 7 and
Cyberpunk, run well even on the most modest hardware. The latter is
playable on an integrated GPU which speaks volumes about how powerful
Apple silicon is. Even Civilization 7, which requires a discrete GPU on
the PC side to provide a decent experience, is surprisingly stellar on
the base model M4. I'd like to have a fan to improve the experience, but
I can play a full game on this hardware way better than I can on Linux,
even with a discrete GPU.
--
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2