On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 13:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 4:34 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 08:52, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 11:42 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 01:56, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:28:41 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
I was told long ago that Macs never need to employ DOS-Like
commands, it's all in the GUI. Now I'm running admin-elevated
UNIX commands to fix a problem?
And using sudo, a rather complex privilege-control tool with
more than its share of security holes over the years.
Not only that, but in this one:
sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight*-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^
If you accidentally hit return just before the marked point,
interesting things will happen ...
And you wonder why there was a GUI method to deal with your
problem...
You're defending Apple babying its customers?-a Lol!-a I mean,
there's nothing wrong with having GUI methods, but people who
can't handle console interaction are lusers.
Is having a car that doesn't require you to adjust a carburetor
"babying" auto buyers?
How about no needing a manual choke?
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
-a You aren't stupid,
You apparently are.
No, I didn't buy an Apple computer.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in
the car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever
needing to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane. I know what it means. To answer your point, though,
I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the Unix side,
in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is their less-than-brilliant attempt to make a GUI. The brain damage makes
them too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to make a
polished user interface that would sell to someone like me. They are
an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
It's weird.-a I understand that you personally have some reason to$200 more for a product that people judge AS A WHOLE.
use Apple's products, but other people are doing it out of lazy
ignorance, and you're perfectly happy with that.-a $200 for half of
a 512 GB SSD.
If they're willing to pay it, it means they VALUE THE WHOLE!
Well, it's your money.
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 18:03:48 -0400, "Joel W. Crump"
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 13:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 4:34 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 08:52, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 11:42 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 01:56, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:28:41 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
I was told long ago that Macs never need to employ DOS-Like
commands, it's all in the GUI. Now I'm running admin-elevated >>>>>>>>> UNIX commands to fix a problem?
And using sudo, a rather complex privilege-control tool with
more than its share of security holes over the years.
Not only that, but in this one:
sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight*-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^
If you accidentally hit return just before the marked point,
interesting things will happen ...
And you wonder why there was a GUI method to deal with your
problem...
You're defending Apple babying its customers?-a Lol!-a I mean,
there's nothing wrong with having GUI methods, but people who
can't handle console interaction are lusers.
Is having a car that doesn't require you to adjust a carburetor
"babying" auto buyers?
How about no needing a manual choke?
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
-a You aren't stupid,
You apparently are.
No, I didn't buy an Apple computer.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in
the car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever
needing to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane. I know what it means. To answer your point, though,
I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the Unix side,
in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is their
less-than-brilliant attempt to make a GUI. The brain damage makes
them too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to make a
polished user interface that would sell to someone like me. They are
an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
1) The GUI (desktop) is much less to my tastes than XFCE.
2) There is no way to change the GUI (desktop).
My experience with MacOS is that it gets in my way. XFCE tends to
stay out of my way.
Observe:
_[/Users/scott]_(scott@mac-studio)EfiA_
$ cd Desktop/
_[/Users/scott/Desktop]_(scott@mac-studio)EfiA_
$ ls
ls: .: Operation not permitted
Isn't that loverly?
It's weird.-a I understand that you personally have some reason to$200 more for a product that people judge AS A WHOLE.
use Apple's products, but other people are doing it out of lazy
ignorance, and you're perfectly happy with that.-a $200 for half of
a 512 GB SSD.
If they're willing to pay it, it means they VALUE THE WHOLE!
You misspelled "hole".
Well, it's your money.
I spent a pretty penny for a Mac Studio, which I justified because
it is a "UNIX(r) workstation".
The Mrs. uses it -- I rarely do.
I'm much happier with my Linux workstation, purchased turnkey
from System76. Those guys know how to build a system.
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 13:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 4:34 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 08:52, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 11:42 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-06 01:56, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2026 18:28:41 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
I was told long ago that Macs never need to employ DOS-Like
commands, it's all in the GUI. Now I'm running admin-elevated UNIX >>>>>>>> commands to fix a problem?
And using sudo, a rather complex privilege-control tool with more >>>>>>> than
its share of security holes over the years.
Not only that, but in this one:
sudo rm -rf /.Spotlight*-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^
If you accidentally hit return just before the marked point,
interesting things will happen ...
And you wonder why there was a GUI method to deal with your
problem...
You're defending Apple babying its customers?-a Lol!-a I mean,
there's nothing wrong with having GUI methods, but people who can't >>>>> handle console interaction are lusers.
Is having a car that doesn't require you to adjust a carburetor
"babying" auto buyers?
How about no needing a manual choke?
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
-a You aren't stupid,
You apparently are.
No, I didn't buy an Apple computer.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in the
car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever needing
to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane.-a I know what it means.-a To answer your point, though, I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the Unix side, in
other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is their less-than- brilliant attempt to make a GUI.-a The brain damage makes them too stupid
to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to make a polished user
interface that would sell to someone like me.-a They are an inferior
brand at an extravagant price.
It's weird.-a I understand that you personally have some reason to use$200 more for a product that people judge AS A WHOLE.
Apple's products, but other people are doing it out of lazy
ignorance, and you're perfectly happy with that.-a $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
If they're willing to pay it, it means they VALUE THE WHOLE!
Well, it's your money.And millions of other people.
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get?
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
To whom?
I want to USE a computer, not show off.
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in the
car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever needing
to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the console".
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane.-a I know what it means.-a To answer your point, though,
I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the Unix side,
in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is their less-
than- brilliant attempt to make a GUI.-a The brain damage makes them
too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to make a
polished user interface that would sell to someone like me.-a They are
an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
Again, not a single specific way in which the Mac is in any way inferior.
You haven't yet learned that "I don't like it" doesn't not mean "it's crapware".
It's weird.-a I understand that you personally have some reason to$200 more for a product that people judge AS A WHOLE.
use Apple's products, but other people are doing it out of lazy
ignorance, and you're perfectly happy with that.-a $200 for half of a >>>> 512 GB SSD.
If they're willing to pay it, it means they VALUE THE WHOLE!
Well, it's your money.
And millions of other people.
On 8/10/2026 7:55 PM, Alan wrote:
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get?
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
To whom?
I want to USE a computer, not show off.
Alright.
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in the
car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever
needing to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the point PowerShell is.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane.-a I know what it means.-a To answer your point, though, >>> I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the Unix side,
in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is their less-
than- brilliant attempt to make a GUI.-a The brain damage makes them
too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to make a
polished user interface that would sell to someone like me.-a They are
an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
Again, not a single specific way in which the Mac is in any way inferior.
You haven't yet learned that "I don't like it" doesn't not mean "it's
crapware".
You can just tell it was made by brain-damaged people.
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get?
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.
Every company charges what they think they can.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
To whom?
I want to USE a computer, not show off.
Alright.
I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in
the car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever
needing to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using the
console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the
point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their
bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane.-a I know what it means.-a To answer your point,
though, I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the
Unix side, in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is
their less- than- brilliant attempt to make a GUI.-a The brain damage >>>> makes them too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too dumb to
make a polished user interface that would sell to someone like me.
They are an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
Again, not a single specific way in which the Mac is in any way
inferior.
You haven't yet learned that "I don't like it" doesn't not mean "it's
crapware".
You can just tell it was made by brain-damaged people.
That's just another way for you to say that you can't actually
articulate anything.
On 8/11/2026 6:18 PM, Alan wrote:
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get?
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.
Every company charges what they think they can.
So $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD is all good.-a Sucker.
you know how to use a console interface,
But why would I want to?
To show you know what you're doing?
To whom?
I want to USE a computer, not show off.
Alright.
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to theWindows has no "console".I know how to tune a carburetor, but what I WANT to do is get in
the car, have it always start instantly and drive it without ever >>>>>> needing to open the hood.
OK, but this isn't a car, it's not really the same thing - using
the console is something an avid computer user does, even in Windows. >>>>
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the console". >>>
point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
why help them extort money from brainless drones who like their >>>>>>> bullshit crapware?
You've still yet to articulate how it is supposedly "crapware".
I'm actually not certain you even know what "to articulate" means.
You are insane.-a I know what it means.-a To answer your point,
though, I would explain that Apple's side of macOS (excluding the
Unix side, in other words) is crapware due to the fact that it is
their less- than- brilliant attempt to make a GUI.-a The brain
damage makes them too stupid to make their own OS kernel, and too
dumb to make a polished user interface that would sell to someone
like me. They are an inferior brand at an extravagant price.
Again, not a single specific way in which the Mac is in any way
inferior.
You haven't yet learned that "I don't like it" doesn't not mean
"it's crapware".
You can just tell it was made by brain-damaged people.
That's just another way for you to say that you can't actually
articulate anything.
Your preference is yours to own.-a I respect it, with you, because you'reI comprehend "M$" just fine. I fix it for my clients on an ongoing basis.
a wise guy.-a But I'm still better than you, because I can comprehend M$.
Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get?
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.
Every company charges what they think they can.
So $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD is all good.-a Sucker.
You still don't get it.
People aren't buying "half of a 512 GB SSD", doofus.
They're looking at the price of a whole device, and deciding the price
for the whole device is worth it for what they get.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the
console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the
point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get? >>>>
Every company charges what they think they can.
So $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD is all good.-a Sucker.
You still don't get it.
People aren't buying "half of a 512 GB SSD", doofus.
They're looking at the price of a whole device, and deciding the price
for the whole device is worth it for what they get.
That's weasel words, they are paying $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD,
because it's $200 to get that instead of a 256 GB one. It's gouging.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the
console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the
point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it? I'll wait an eternity for you to answer *that*.
At Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:57:27 -0400, "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the
console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the >>>>>> point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system. >>>>>
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your >>>>> actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it? I'll wait an eternity for you to
answer *that*.
Two things:
1) Powershell is available for Linux, so it isn't just a "Windows console". It's
a _shell_, inferior to a POSIX shell, but still a _shell_.
On 8/12/2026 2:36 PM, vallor wrote:
At Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:57:27 -0400, "Joel W. Crump"
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the
console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the >>>>>>> point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system. >>>>>>
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your >>>>>> actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it?-a I'll wait an eternity for you to
answer *that*.
Two things:
1) Powershell is available for Linux, so it isn't just a "Windows
console".-a It's
a _shell_, inferior to a POSIX shell, but still a _shell_.
Shell, console, what the fuck is the difference?-a Heh.-a That's just Alan splitting hairs.
On 2026-08-12 11:49, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/12/2026 2:36 PM, vallor wrote:
At Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:57:27 -0400, "Joel W. Crump"
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the >>>>>>>>> console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the >>>>>>>> point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system. >>>>>>>
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your >>>>>>> actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it?-a I'll wait an eternity for you to >>>> answer *that*.
Two things:
1) Powershell is available for Linux, so it isn't just a "Windows
console".-a It's
a _shell_, inferior to a POSIX shell, but still a _shell_.
Shell, console, what the fuck is the difference?-a Heh.-a That's just
Alan splitting hairs.
It is splitting hairs.
But the point is that YOU didn't understand there was ANY difference.
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the point
PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
On 2026-08-12 11:49, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/12/2026 2:36 PM, vallor wrote:
At Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:57:27 -0400, "Joel W. Crump"
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the >>>>>>>>> console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the >>>>>>>> point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system. >>>>>>>
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your >>>>>>> actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it?-a I'll wait an eternity for you to >>>> answer *that*.
Two things:
1) Powershell is available for Linux, so it isn't just a "Windows
console".-a It's
a _shell_, inferior to a POSIX shell, but still a _shell_.
Shell, console, what the fuck is the difference?-a Heh.-a That's just
Alan splitting hairs.
It is splitting hairs.
But the point is that YOU didn't understand there was ANY difference.
Apparently, my understanding of these things is also shallow. In what
way is Powershell different from a console on a Unix system? Am I
mistaken to consider bash a "console"?
On 8/12/26 2:59 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-12 11:49, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/12/2026 2:36 PM, vallor wrote:
At Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:57:27 -0400, "Joel W. Crump"
<joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the >>>>>>>>>> console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the >>>>>>>>> point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix
system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow >>>>>>>> your
actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it?-a I'll wait an eternity for you to >>>>> answer *that*.
Two things:
1) Powershell is available for Linux, so it isn't just a "Windows
console".-a It's
a _shell_, inferior to a POSIX shell, but still a _shell_.
Shell, console, what the fuck is the difference?-a Heh.-a That's just
Alan splitting hairs.
It is splitting hairs.
But the point is that YOU didn't understand there was ANY difference.
Call it what you want, all are ways to perform commands that the GUI may
not be able to accomplish.
Alan wrote:
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the point >>> PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
Apparently, my understanding of these things is also shallow. In what
way is Powershell different from a console on a Unix system? Am I
mistaken to consider bash a "console"?
On 8/11/2026 6:30 PM, Alan wrote:
Not every company overcharges for nearly everything they sell.Why do you defend Apple?
Why do you attack them?
It's a cult of greed.
In what way?
Doesn't every company sell its products for as much as they can get? >>>>>
Every company charges what they think they can.
So $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD is all good.-a Sucker.
You still don't get it.
People aren't buying "half of a 512 GB SSD", doofus.
They're looking at the price of a whole device, and deciding the price
for the whole device is worth it for what they get.
That's weasel words, they are paying $200 for half of a 512 GB SSD,
because it's $200 to get that instead of a 256 GB one.-a It's gouging.
Windows has no "console".
Every actual avid computer knows, cmd.exe windows aren't "the
console".
The NT command line is something of one, actually, but more to the
point PowerShell is.
Nope. Neither of them is the same as the "console" on a Unix system.
That you don't understand the difference shows just how shallow your
actual understanding of these things is.
Wrong.-a Powershell is the Windows console.
Nope. It absolutely is NOT.
If it isn't that, then what *is* it?-a I'll wait an eternity for you to answer *that*.Essentially, it's a process running through a tty.
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