From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in C
and various script languages, especially Perl.

What else was there in terms of rCLscriptingrCY at the time?

In those days, rCLscriptingrCY meant rCLinterpretedrCY, which in turn meant rCLslowrCY. Perl managed to break the mould by compiling to an
intermediate byte-code form, which made it fast enough to be a real productivity booster for many common quick-and-dirty programming
tasks.

First "byte-code form" is wrong, it was more like parse tree.
At that time compiling to intermediate form was pretty standard
for "interpreted" languages. Awk, Basic, Emacs Lisp among others
did that.

I did some measurements and despite claim in the Perl manual Perl
was not faster than awk or sed. When I did this I did not compare
with other alternatives, but later tests indicated that Perl was
in the middle of the pack.

Of course, there are languages that are really slow, like Unix
shell or Berkeley Logo. In case of Berkely Logo main source of
slowness is that it performed file system search for possible
command extentions at each step. Shell is less aggressive
with file system searches, but has it own reason for slowness.

I would point to Perl as the start of the wave of rCLmetaprogrammingrCY languages (by which he meant rCLvery-high-levelrCY languages) that Fred Brooks predicted in the final edition of his classic book rCLThe
Mythical Man-MonthrCY.

His own proposed example, AppleScript, is probably best forgotten.

I do not think so. Already before Perl there were various rCLvery-high-levelrCY languages. And Perl 4 was not rCLvery-high-levelrCY. Relatively early it was recognized that for several tasks
machine efficiency matters only a little. Time when Perl
appeared coincide with time that reasonably powerful computers
become widely available and higher level languages started
to matter for a lot of people.

In my view, main factor for Perl was that it was more capable
than sed or awk. And unlike now forgotten languages it
blended nicely into Unix culture. Unix gave it good start,
portablity and a fact that it was open source helped it to
spread and survive. And once it was widely availeble
people stated to abuse it to solve new tasks, beyond original
design goals.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Short documentary streamed in 1982 for the 25th anniversary of FORTRAN.

Documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvyjbWkTyU

John Backus and other FORTRAN creators speaking about the development of
the language and the compiler.

Preserved written history of FORTRAN:
https://softwarepreservation.computerhistory.org/FORTRAN/

Stolen from
https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On 1/7/2026 9:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

Short documentary streamed in 1982 for the 25th anniversary of FORTRAN.

Documentary:
-a-a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvyjbWkTyU

John Backus and other FORTRAN creators speaking about the development of
the language and the compiler.

Preserved written history of FORTRAN:
-a-a https://softwarepreservation.computerhistory.org/FORTRAN/

Stolen from
-a-a https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/

Lynn

I started writing software in Fortran in 1975, thought it the best thing
since sliced bread. Then I learned Pascal in 1983 (Turbo Pascal). Then
I learned C in 1986 (Turbo C).

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:09:58 -0600, Lynn McGuire wrote:

I started writing software in Fortran in 1975, thought it the best
thing since sliced bread. Then I learned Pascal in 1983 (Turbo
Pascal). Then I learned C in 1986 (Turbo C).

1975 was probably about the time I first encountered actual lines of
Fortran code (though not a computer to run them on). This was in the Encyclopedia Britannica article on computers.

Then I got hold of a book called rCLThe Compleat CybernautrCY, by Anna
Burke Harris. It was a pretty comprehensive introduction to Fortran. I
remember the bio mentioned that the author was living in a city where
she was the only practising blacksmith. I devoured that in a weekend.

Later, I found another book, called rCLProgramming in POP-2rCY. The
concepts of non-numerical programming, lists, structures etc -- way
beyond anything Fortran had -- just blew my mind. Also it was
stack-based.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> schrieb:

Short documentary streamed in 1982 for the 25th anniversary of FORTRAN.

Documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvyjbWkTyU

Nice video - seeing the peole that I read about in "Abstracting Away
The Machine" (which I thoroughly recommend).

John Backus and other FORTRAN creators speaking about the development of
the language and the compiler.

The job they did was absolutely amazing - almost inventing
everything from scratch.
--
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On 1/9/2026 3:40 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:09:58 -0600, Lynn McGuire wrote:

I started writing software in Fortran in 1975, thought it the best
thing since sliced bread. Then I learned Pascal in 1983 (Turbo
Pascal). Then I learned C in 1986 (Turbo C).

1975 was probably about the time I first encountered actual lines of
Fortran code (though not a computer to run them on). This was in the Encyclopedia Britannica article on computers.

Then I got hold of a book called rCLThe Compleat CybernautrCY, by Anna
Burke Harris. It was a pretty comprehensive introduction to Fortran. I remember the bio mentioned that the author was living in a city where
she was the only practising blacksmith. I devoured that in a weekend.

Later, I found another book, called rCLProgramming in POP-2rCY. The
concepts of non-numerical programming, lists, structures etc -- way
beyond anything Fortran had -- just blew my mind. Also it was
stack-based.

My father started a chemical engineering software company in 1968. In
May of 1975, he asked what I was doing that summer between my freshman
and sophomore years in high school. I said watching tv and reading
scifi books. "Nope, you are going to work for one of my programmers",
my dad said.

So I was the keypuncher for Sun Fu, a Chemical Engineer PhD. Sun Fu
would write an algorithm on the back on a piece or two of printout
paper. I would keypunch the algorithm in Fortran 66, get the subroutine
to compile cleanly on the time share Univac 1108, and deliver the card
deck to Sun Fu. Dad paid me $2.00 per hour. I should have paid him.

I knew Sun Fu well. He lived with us for a year in Houston in 1973
after he got his PhD at the University Of Oklahoma where my Dad had
taught Chemical Engineering from 1963 to 1968. Sun Fu was one of my
Dad's best grad students, an incredibly smart guy from mainland China.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 19:33:27 -0600, Lynn McGuire wrote:

So I was the keypuncher for Sun Fu, a Chemical Engineer PhD. Sun Fu
would write an algorithm on the back on a piece or two of printout
paper. I would keypunch the algorithm in Fortran 66, get the
subroutine to compile cleanly on the time share Univac 1108, and
deliver the card deck to Sun Fu.

In the summer job I had at the end of my first year, I was writing
Fortran code to model sawing up a log for planks or peeling it for
plywood. I started by submitting coding forms to the data entry
operators, as per recommended practice, but the cards came back full
of typos (rCL1rCY for rCLIrCY, rCLOrCY for rCL0rCY etc).

There was a 129 keypunch in the room where you submitted jobs, which
was meant to be used by ordinary users for quick corrections only. I
started using it to punch all my own cards. Once the operators
realized I could do my program entry as fast as they could (and more accurately), we came to an agreement that I would give up my place
every few minutes and go round again, to give others in the queue a
chance.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

Then I got hold of a book called rCLThe Compleat CybernautrCY, by Anna
Burke Harris.

That's a great title. Amazon listing prices make it look like a real collector's item.

Later, I found another book, called rCLProgramming in POP-2rCY.

That looks interesting, too. It looks like it's still available in the
form of POP-11/Poplog.
--
David Meyer
Takarazuka, Japan
papa@sdf.org
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> schrieb:

On 1/7/2026 9:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

Short documentary streamed in 1982 for the 25th anniversary of FORTRAN.

Documentary:
-a-a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvyjbWkTyU

John Backus and other FORTRAN creators speaking about the development of
the language and the compiler.

Preserved written history of FORTRAN:
-a-a https://softwarepreservation.computerhistory.org/FORTRAN/

Stolen from
-a-a https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/

Lynn

I started writing software in Fortran in 1975, thought it the best thing since sliced bread. Then I learned Pascal in 1983 (Turbo Pascal). Then
I learned C in 1986 (Turbo C).

I started out on my father's programmable calculator (Casio,
38 steps). Enough for factorization. Then, a better programmable
calculator, also Casio, the FX 602-P. In parallel, a C64 (starting
1983?) using Basic and a bit of assembler. Then, Turbo Pascal and
some Modula-2 on the Atari ST, plus Fortran as a student, starting
around 1987 (on IBM-compatible mainframes, later vector computers).
Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in
C and various script languages, especially Perl.
--
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in C
and various script languages, especially Perl.

What else was there in terms of rCLscriptingrCY at the time?

In those days, rCLscriptingrCY meant rCLinterpretedrCY, which in turn meant rCLslowrCY. Perl managed to break the mould by compiling to an
intermediate byte-code form, which made it fast enough to be a real productivity booster for many common quick-and-dirty programming
tasks.

I would point to Perl as the start of the wave of rCLmetaprogrammingrCY languages (by which he meant rCLvery-high-levelrCY languages) that Fred
Brooks predicted in the final edition of his classic book rCLThe
Mythical Man-MonthrCY.

His own proposed example, AppleScript, is probably best forgotten.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> schrieb:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in C
and various script languages, especially Perl.

What else was there in terms of rCLscriptingrCY at the time?

I actually started out with awk, which preceded Perl (I did
not mention that because I mainly switched to Perl once it was
available, but I will use awk '/foo/ { print $1,$3 }' style of
scripts every now and then.

awk actually has the same logic as RPG, but is many orders of
magnitudes saner.

In those days, rCLscriptingrCY meant rCLinterpretedrCY, which in turn meant rCLslowrCY. Perl managed to break the mould by compiling to an
intermediate byte-code form, which made it fast enough to be a real productivity booster for many common quick-and-dirty programming
tasks.

I think the same applies to awk.
--
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:47:15 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> schrieb:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in
C and various script languages, especially Perl.

What else was there in terms of rCLscriptingrCY at the time?

I actually started out with awk, which preceded Perl ...

Yeah, but Perl does everything awk does, just as concisely, and more.

So yes, at the time people were pushing awk as some kind of
general-purpose high-level language, we already had Perl.

Tcl might have been another possibility, but I think Perl had less bad
syntax. ;)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

Around 1989, I got access to UNIX workstations and also worked in C
and various script languages, especially Perl.

What else was there in terms of ?scripting? at the time?

awk and sed, called from shell scripts.

Of course if you blend shell, sed and awk, you get perl 4.
--
pa at panix dot com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.fortran

On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:09:58 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

On 1/7/2026 9:52 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

Short documentary streamed in 1982 for the 25th anniversary of FORTRAN.

Documentary:
aa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvyjbWkTyU

John Backus and other FORTRAN creators speaking about the development of
the language and the compiler.

Preserved written history of FORTRAN:
aa https://softwarepreservation.computerhistory.org/FORTRAN/

Stolen from
aa https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/

Lynn

Thank you very much for this nice, no-fluff video.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2