• Re: Attached is a "conversation" I had with AI trying to get FFMPEG to concatenate two videos correctly

    From EllisMorgan@ellis@ellis.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,comp.lang.apl on Tue Feb 18 07:53:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.apl

    Unusual to find a reference to APL, however dated, in another newsgroup ...

    On 17/02/2025 01:11, Paul wrote:
    On Sun, 2/16/2025 5:13 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 14:31:27 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    []

    They need a "breakthrough". As in, starting over again.
    I don't see, how adding cubic miles more computing equipment,
    is going to help.

    It's a bit like Fusion; they're on the verge of something Big, just Spend
    More Money.

    They're fixated on gold mining, when the mule and the
    shovel haven't been perfected yet.

    When I was in high school, the bright kid in my class
    did a port of ELIZA, from Fortran to APL. We ran that
    on the terminal, and laughed at the corny output,
    provided by a series of if-then-else type constructs.

    Well, what we have today, is ELIZA on steroids. Of course
    it's miles better than ELIZA. but on the other hand, it's
    not a genius. And every time you use it, it loses a couple
    "IQ points" in your general opinion of the thing. To the
    point, it's damn close to useless. Just like ELIZA :-)

    ELIZA was glaringly bad. But, because it was procedural,
    we could all appreciate both the effort that had
    gone into creating it, and we could see what it would
    take to make it "more clever". Whereas the LLM AI,
    offers not a clue as to what would fix it. Every
    usage reveals a new problem. One of my fun answers, was
    when the AI tells me to "get a hex editor and figure
    it out for myself". I would pay money for this
    kind of rancid wisdom.

    Paul


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  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,comp.lang.apl on Tue Feb 18 07:30:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.apl

    On Tue, 2/18/2025 2:53 AM, EllisMorgan wrote:
    Unusual to find a reference to APL, however dated, in another newsgroup ...


    I asked CoPilot a question about APL.

    I asked for the one-liner that does linear least squares.
    Figuring the one-liner would be famous enough at the time,
    to be included in the AI training set.

    And the AI *hung*. The safety timer didn't go off. It's not
    supposed to spend more than 15-20 seconds or so on a question.

    I figured by asking the question, it would not have a
    lot of training about APL. But, it got far enough, to
    pretend it knew how to program in APL. It started putting
    out the "rho" character on the screen, one rho after another
    rho. And with each rho, the time between characters was
    getting longer and longer. (The AI was stuck in an I/O loop.)

    Eventually, after ten to twenty minutes, a human must have
    terminated the question, and the CoPilot setup recovered.

    APL was one of the first languages I had exposure to in
    High School. No instruction was given. We were told "here
    is a terminal, the language is APL, enjoy". The terminal
    was a Selectric with the correct type ball on it for APL.
    (Well, now, a few people in the audience are drooling.)
    The session was at 300 baud.

    When I got to university, there was no Selectric and a jumble
    of characters to represent the operators. A total mess, and
    led to abandonment of APL. Just about all the facilities at
    university were ridiculously bad. Teletype terminals where
    they never re-inked the ink ribbon on the machine -- you could
    never read the output of *anything* you did on a terminal
    in uni. The mainframe line printer output was fine.

    But the best part about this ELIZA story, is the gentleman
    who did the port of ELIZA to APL, he didn't go to university here,
    he left town. Today, he is retired with his "PhD In Artificial Intelligence". Imagine missing the gold rush of AI and retiring before it
    takes off. He does a port of ELIZA -- he gets a PhD in AI...

    In high school, we taught each other computer languages.
    Sort of a lunchtime learning. We stopped eating lunch in
    the cafeteria, because it was "the same old thing every day".
    We sat in a classroom, and entertained ourselves. And a poll of
    the audience, revealed people with ALGOL, COBOL experience,
    and so on. And the inevitable Fortran, as that's all that
    gets taught in the school systems. None of this was in depth,
    it was just a quick "contrast with what you are used to".

    One of the people in the room, was a "computer consultant".
    He dropped out of high school, to work as a consultant full time.

    I used to sit for 12 hour sessions on a Saturday, at the
    university computer center, working in Fortran with
    punched cards (a 360/50). The university provided accounts
    for high school students. But you could only attend on Saturday.

    So even though the high school teachers didn't teach
    anything about computers particularly, we taught ourselves.
    And the gentleman who did the ELIZA port, was part of that
    room. Our high school teachers worked hard. One of our
    math teachers collapsed one day from exhaustion. He was
    staying up late every night, to feed our voracious
    appetite for math problem sets. There was no time for
    the teachers to be spinning off computer lectures.

    It's too bad Selectrics were not more available, and
    especially with the Greek typeball on it :-) That
    makes all the difference to "thinking in APL". Having
    a rubbish "approximate replacement" for the character
    set, that ruins it.

    Paul

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