From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 19:57:34 +0200, sobriquet wrote :

What's the best free app to modify pdf files on android?
So not just viewing a pdf file, but actually making changes in it, like filling out a form with additional information.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

I don't know the answer, so I hope someone pitches in with the answer.

However, I know of another group you can ask, which is comp.text.pdf
<https://tinyurl.com/comp-text-pdf>
<https://tinyurl.com/nova-comp-text-pdf>

In addition, you can easily convert a PDF to Microsoft Word where, if the
PDF is actual text (and not a bitmap image), you can edit it in MS Word.
<https://calibre-ebook.com/download>

In addition, there are also online PDF editors....
<https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/pdf-editor.html>

Looking for you in Skyica for an Android PDF editor
PDFgear for Android seems to have the most free editing of PDFs I think
Sejda PDF Editor apparently has some free editing limited by size
iLovePDF is better for merging & splitting but it does some edits for free
Xodo PDF Reader & Editor apparently has "some" free PDF editing features
PDFelement by Wondershare seems to have some elements of editing for free
Foxit PDF Editor also has "some" PDF editing for free but not much
Adobe Acrobat Reader only has the most rudimentary of free PDF changes

Please note that while I've been using PDFs for longer than anyone here
most likely (since I started using PDFs before anyone knew about it - see
sig), I am NOT an expert on free PDF editors on Android by any means.

Those on the c.t.p group *are* experts, so I will defer to them to help.
Please do let us know what works best for you as we learn from helping.
--
When I first proposed our corporate IT department support PDF files, they refused on the grounds that they didn't want to support yet another editing format (they didn't understand anything about PDF, being my main point).
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

Op 14/06/2025 om 21:17 schreef Marion:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 19:57:34 +0200, sobriquet wrote :

What's the best free app to modify pdf files on android?
So not just viewing a pdf file, but actually making changes in it, like
filling out a form with additional information.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

I don't know the answer, so I hope someone pitches in with the answer.

However, I know of another group you can ask, which is comp.text.pdf
<https://tinyurl.com/comp-text-pdf>
<https://tinyurl.com/nova-comp-text-pdf>

In addition, you can easily convert a PDF to Microsoft Word where, if the
PDF is actual text (and not a bitmap image), you can edit it in MS Word.
<https://calibre-ebook.com/download>

In addition, there are also online PDF editors....
<https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/pdf-editor.html>

Looking for you in Skyica for an Android PDF editor
PDFgear for Android seems to have the most free editing of PDFs I think
Sejda PDF Editor apparently has some free editing limited by size
iLovePDF is better for merging & splitting but it does some edits for free
Xodo PDF Reader & Editor apparently has "some" free PDF editing features
PDFelement by Wondershare seems to have some elements of editing for free
Foxit PDF Editor also has "some" PDF editing for free but not much
Adobe Acrobat Reader only has the most rudimentary of free PDF changes

Please note that while I've been using PDFs for longer than anyone here
most likely (since I started using PDFs before anyone knew about it - see sig), I am NOT an expert on free PDF editors on Android by any means.

Those on the c.t.p group *are* experts, so I will defer to them to help. Please do let us know what works best for you as we learn from helping.

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension, but that doesn't
seem to work very well, though it might vary depending on the type of pdf.
With the pdf that I tried, I wasn't very satisfied with the free online version of ms-word either in the way it handled the pdf.

I'll give the free adobe pdf-editor webapp a try to see how that works.

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 06:49:18 +0200, sobriquet wrote:

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension ...

Are people still using OpenOffice instead of LibreOffice??
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 07:58, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 06:49:18 +0200, sobriquet wrote:

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension ...

Are people still using OpenOffice instead of LibreOffice??

I strongly recommend not to that: The support and development of OO was
stopped a while ago. This office suite is not secure anymore.

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

Is Open Office as secure as Libre Office?

Both Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice are open-source office suites
that prioritize security, but there are some differences in their
development models and update frequencies that can impact their security.

LibreOffice is generally considered to have a more active development
community and more frequent updates. This can be an advantage in terms
of security because updates often include patches for newly discovered vulnerabilities. The Document Foundation, which oversees LibreOffice,
also has a dedicated security team that handles security issues.

Apache OpenOffice, on the other hand, has a smaller development
community and less frequent updates. This can sometimes result in slower responses to security vulnerabilities. However, the Apache Software
Foundation, which oversees OpenOffice, also takes security seriously and
has processes in place to handle security issues.

In terms of features and functionality, both suites are quite similar,
as they both originated from the same codebase (OpenOffice.org). The
choice between the two often comes down to personal preference, specific feature needs, or the importance of frequent updates.

In conclusion, while both suites are secure, LibreOffice's more active development and frequent updates might give it a slight edge in terms of security. However, both are viable options for users seeking a secure, open-source office suite.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 09:22, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 07:58, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 06:49:18 +0200, sobriquet wrote:

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension ...

Are people still using OpenOffice instead of LibreOffice??

I strongly recommend not to that: The support and development of OO was stopped a while ago. This office suite is not secure anymore.

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

Is Open Office as secure as Libre Office?

Both Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice are open-source office suites
that prioritize security, but there are some differences in their
development models and update frequencies that can impact their security.

LibreOffice is generally considered to have a more active development community and more frequent updates. This can be an advantage in terms
of security because updates often include patches for newly discovered vulnerabilities. The Document Foundation, which oversees LibreOffice,
also has a dedicated security team that handles security issues.

Apache OpenOffice, on the other hand, has a smaller development
community and less frequent updates. This can sometimes result in slower responses to security vulnerabilities. However, the Apache Software Foundation, which oversees OpenOffice, also takes security seriously and
has processes in place to handle security issues.

In terms of features and functionality, both suites are quite similar,
as they both originated from the same codebase (OpenOffice.org). The
choice between the two often comes down to personal preference, specific feature needs, or the importance of frequent updates.

In conclusion, while both suites are secure, LibreOffice's more active development and frequent updates might give it a slight edge in terms of security. However, both are viable options for users seeking a secure, open-source office suite.

In addition:

Is Open Office still developed?

Apache OpenOffice is still being developed, but its development has significantly slowed down over the years. The project is currently
maintained by a small group of volunteers under the Apache Software
Foundation. The latest release, version 4.1.15, was announced on
December 22, 2023, indicating that development is still ongoing, albeit
at a slower pace compared to its more active successor, LibreOffice12.

Despite the steady pace of development, Apache OpenOffice has faced
challenges, including a reduction in the number of active developers and multiple unfixed security issues34. The project encourages contributions
from anyone interested in helping with its development2.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

Read the following post.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:35:53 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.

So the only way you could be sure the AI was trustworthy was because it
told you something you already knew?
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 10:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:35:53 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.

So the only way you could be sure the AI was trustworthy was because it
told you something you already knew?

OT and EOD in this subthread.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 06:49:18 +0200, sobriquet wrote :

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension, but that doesn't
seem to work very well, though it might vary depending on the type of pdf.

I've been "editing" PostScript & PDF for, oh, I don't know, twenty years or
so, starting with the acrobat distiller process in the early days... but we need to keep in mind there are edits and there are edits - so a *lot*
depends on your desired edits, and, of course, whether the PDF is
essentially a bitmap or if it's what I'll call a "true pdf".

A 'true pdf' is a digitally created PDF and not a scanned image-only PDF.

When I need to edit scanned PDFs, I just use any decent image editor, many
of which work on the PDF itself but I generally convert to an image format
to edit and then I convert it back to a now-modified bitmap PDF when done.

Is your original to-be-edited document a true PDF or a scanned PDF?

I've been using Adobe Acrobat 6 for a very long time to make *minor*
changes to true PDF text; but there are free tools that do that now.

I'm just lazy since Adobe Acrobat 6 (the writer) has worked since 2003.

With the pdf that I tried, I wasn't very satisfied with the free online version of ms-word either in the way it handled the pdf.

The best free PDF converter that I know of is calibre so if you haven't
tried it, you should because it's one of those must-have wondrous programs.

However, I agree with you that EVERY converter converts DIFFERENTLY, such
that it's like asking which color blonde makes for the best wife.

Every PDF conversion is different because of myriad differences, not the
least in the document itself that needs to be converted.

So, as you are doing, you just have to try each one, starting with those
most likely to result in decent output. I have tried a few and some are
great and most are not.

I'll give the free adobe pdf-editor webapp a try to see how that works.

I looked into my pdf logs and I didn't have any comprehensive report for
which free online tool does the CONVERSION to an editable format best, but
to give you an idea of what's available online, my logs show compression.

Since this is about conversion and modification, here's just a snippet.

[x] Best for FAST Online PDF compression >25MB
https://docupub.com/pdfcompress/
Keep the defaults and press the [Choose File] button
Then press [Upload & Compress]
Lastly click the link to view & download in browser

[x] Best for GREAT compression Online PDF compression >25MB
But it has a bug so upload a tiny PDF & convert it first.
https://www.adobe.com/ca/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html
First it has to completely fully upload before you do anything else
Then select your compression level & press the "Compress" button
Download (but it seems to take twice to get a download button)

[x] This sucks but purports to do many at once (but it sucks)
https://pdfcompressor.com (only compresses 1%)
Click [Upload Files] and let it compress it from that
Then press "Download All"

But back to *editing*, what I'd do if the original is a true PDF is convert with calibre first. And then I'd see what resulted. And try to edit that.

If the original is a scanned PDF, then I'd simply use an image editor, or,
if it's pure scanned text (no images or diagrams), I'd use a free OCR.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:07:09 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:35:53 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.

So the only way you could be sure the AI was trustworthy was because it
told you something you already knew?

OT and EOD in this subthread.

I hope you have learned a lesson about relying on AI.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15.06.25 21:36, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:07:09 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:35:53 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.

So the only way you could be sure the AI was trustworthy was because it
told you something you already knew?

OT and EOD in this subthread.

I hope you have learned a lesson about relying on AI.

Uneducated idiot. You eypose yourself with absolutely no knowledge what
AI is and how it is used.
--
"De gustibus non est disputandum."
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 22:04:25 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 21:36, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:07:09 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 15.06.25 10:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:35:53 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

And btw: It is basically common knowledge.

So the only way you could be sure the AI was trustworthy was because
it told you something you already knew?

OT and EOD in this subthread.

I hope you have learned a lesson about relying on AI.

You eypose yourself with absolutely no knowledge what
AI is and how it is used.

You have already given us a pretty clear demonstration.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 2025-06-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

You could ask AI for the sources and verify on them.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 16.06.25 05:23, Roberto Deboni DMIsr wrote:

On 2025-06-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

You could ask AI for the sources and verify on them.

Quite easy. Mistral AI allows to do that quite transparently and it can
be adjusted.
--
"De gustibus non est disputandum."
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 11:12:51 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

On 16.06.25 05:23, Roberto Deboni DMIsr wrote:

On 2025-06-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:22:05 +0200, J||rg Lorenz wrote:

Mistral AI states relatively carefully:

I wonder how you can tell ...

You could ask AI for the sources and verify on them.

Quite easy. Mistral AI allows to do that quite transparently and it can
be adjusted.

Is that what it told you?
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 01:10:44 +0200, sobriquet wrote :

Op 17/06/2025 om 20:21 schreef Arno Welzel:

sobriquet, 2025-06-17 13:27:

Op 15/06/2025 om 19:05 schreef Arno Welzel:

sobriquet, 2025-06-14 19:57:

What's the best free app to modify pdf files on android?
So not just viewing a pdf file, but actually making changes in it, like >>>>> filling out a form with additional information.

Filling out forms is not "modify" - it is just filling out a form in the >>>> PDF and storing the result.

Modify has the general meaning of "making changes" as one of its
connotations. So if you change anything about a pdf file, like filling
a pdf form, that can be understood as modification.

Yes, but you do *not* change the PDF itself. You just enter something in
form fields provided in the PDF. And you can then save the PDF with the
filled form. But when you open it again you will see, that the form
fields are still there and can be changed again - but nothing else,
since you will not change the PDF.

It's like filling a form on a website - you do not change the website
itself just by filling a form and sending it.

It depends how you interpret "change". If you fill out a form I would
say you change the form from an empty form to a form that has been
filled out. Also, it's natural to think of it as modifying the pdf
file, since the file attributes like "date last modified" will
typically change, while it wouldn't change if you just read the
pdf file without making any changes to the file.

I'll agree with anyone who makes a logically defensible statement, no
matter who he is, and I'll disagree with anyone whose statements are not.

Personally, I've been "editing" PDF files for decades, where I will agree
with Arno that most people don't consider filling out PDF forms as
"editing", although technically, any change in the hash is editing.

The reason it matters is simply that the OP needs to be clear on the
problem set because the mix of programs/apps which fill out form fields is vastly greater than the mix that does actual edits to the text in the PDF.

In addition, I would *never* think of converting a form-field PDF to
another format to fill out the fields (for the same reason as above).

If I wanted to make edits to text inside a PDF (i.e., not just fill out
form fields), I'd use the tools I already described previously.

If that PDF was simply a scan, then I'd convert the PDF to an image format
and change the image as needed, and then convert back to PDF.

I have decades of experience doing this, which is why I say emphatically
that filling out a field is a completely different problem set than actual
text editing of a PDF (or image editing of a scanned PDF).

I could be wrong though... as I did say in the very beginning I didn't know
of a good solution to the user's stated problem on the Android ecosystem.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 15/06/2025 05:49, sobriquet wrote:

Op 14/06/2025 om 21:17 schreef Marion:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 19:57:34 +0200, sobriquet wrote :

What's the best free app to modify pdf files on android?
So not just viewing a pdf file, but actually making changes in it, like
filling out a form with additional information.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

I don't know the answer, so I hope someone pitches in with the answer.

I'm curious to know WHY you want to edit a PDF, which was designed as a non-editable end-of-line format.

Did you want to make small changes and re-issue the PDF? Or reformat the
whole document to repurpose it?

It's usually MUCH easier to edit the original document and regenerate
the PDF.

On the PC I've tried open office with a pdf extension, but that
doesn't seem to work very well, though it might vary depending on
the type of pdf.

Several posters have already explained the difference between a textual
PDF (text you can copy and paste) and an image PDF (which contains
pictures of pages, and no actual text).

With the pdf that I tried, I wasn't very satisfied with the free online version of ms-word either in the way it handled the pdf.

I'll give the free adobe pdf-editor webapp a try to see how that works.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes not.

Peter
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025, Peter Flynn wrote:

I'm curious to know WHY you want to edit a PDF, which was designed as a non-editable end-of-line format.

Two possible reasons.

- I want to add annotations (e.g. I periodically dump my bank account
record of transactions, and wanto to add a sequence number to each
operation) ... procedure, open pdf with libreoffice, place my text
label, (re-)export as pdf, quit original file unsaved

- I receive from some administration a pdf document containing a form
(it is NOT a "pdf form", their fault) which in principle should be
filled, signed, printed, scanned and returned (sic!) instead .,,

... open pdf with libreoffice, insert wished text, insert scanned
pmg woith my signasture, export as pdf andf send resulting file
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2