Please advise.
Please advise.
Please advise.
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Please advise.
No they are not copyrighted and you are free to publish them
Yank stuff has to have a copyright thing on them if they are copyrighted
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wroteIts been well known that some schitzophrenics do get religious fantasys
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wroteThanx to all. I have asked about the psychology of religious followers...including the Freudian explanation. Vis... ************************
Please advise.No they are not copyrighted and you are free to publish them
Yank stuff has to have a copyright thing on them if they are copyrighted
In reference to psychoanalysis. What personality traits tend to be religious?
ChatGPT said:Not bad
In psychoanalysis, the idea of a "religious personality" has been
explored, with a particular focus on how religious tendencies are
shaped by the unconscious mind, early childhood experiences, and
internal conflicts. Some psychoanalysts, like Sigmund Freud, Carl
Jung, and Erik Erikson, have explored the intersection of religion and> personality, each providing their own perspective.
Key Personality Traits Often Associated with Religion in
Psychoanalysis:
Dependence and Need for Protection:
In psychoanalytic theory, particularly from Freud's perspective,
religion can be seen as a form of psychological defense mechanism. The> religious person might exhibit a heightened need for security and
protection, often seeking solace in the idea of a higher power or
divine authority. This could stem from early childhood experiences
where the child felt vulnerable and dependent on caregivers. Religion
may serve as a means of psychologically compensating for feelings of helplessness or anxiety.
Obedience to Authority:
Religious personalities often demonstrate a tendency toward
conformity, obedience, and submission to a higher power or authority
figure. Freud viewed religion as a projection of the father figure,
and he believed that people with strong religious tendencies might
have unresolved issues with their paternal relationships, leading them> to seek authority in external figures (e.g., God, religious leaders,
or doctrines).
Superego Development:
Freud's concept of the superegorCothe part of the psyche that governs
moral behaviorrCooften plays a role in religious personalities. Those
with a religious personality might have an unusually strong superego,
which drives them to adhere strictly to moral codes, rituals, and
religious laws. This can lead to a deep sense of guilt and a need for atonement, as well as a strong desire to be "good" according to
religious standards.
Idealization and Transference:
Religious individuals may idealize the divine or religious leaders,
which can be understood as a form of transference (in psychoanalytic
terms). This is when a person projects feelings from past
relationships (such as with parents) onto a religious figure or belief> system. The individual may idealize the religious figure as a source
of safety, love, and protection.
Conflict Between Id and Superego:
The religious person may experience internal conflict between the id (representing desires, impulses, and instincts) and the superego (representing moralistic, ethical, and religious standards). In psychoanalytic theory, this conflict can manifest as guilt,
repression, and a strong internal drive to avoid sin or wrongdoing,
often leading to a rigid or highly structured religious adherence.
Neuroticism:
In some cases, religion can be linked to neuroticism, where religious
rituals and practices might serve as a form of psychological coping
with anxiety, fear, or obsessive tendencies. People with neurotic
tendencies might rely on religious practices to soothe or regulate
their emotional states, such as performing rituals repetitively or
seeking reassurance through prayer.
Projection:
Some psychoanalysts suggest that religious individuals might project
their own repressed emotions, desires, or fears onto external symbols
or figures, such as gods, spirits, or the devil. This projection can
serve as a way of dealing with complex emotional states that are
difficult to process consciously.
Separation-Individuation:
From an object relations perspective (which is a psychoanalytic theory> focusing on the importance of early relationships), religion can also
be viewed as a way to navigate the process of separation and
individuation. This process involves an individual gaining a sense of
self and autonomy from primary caregivers. Religion might serve as a
way to find a "new parent figure" or a way to cope with the emotional challenges of growing up and forming an independent identity.
Self-Transcendence:
On a more positive note, some psychoanalysts, particularly Carl Jung,
saw religious belief as an expression of a deeper yearning for self-transcendence or integration. Jung believed that religious
experiences could play a significant role in the individuation process> (the development of the whole self), where individuals come to terms
with both their conscious and unconscious aspects. A religious
personality, in this sense, might seek connection with something
larger than themselvesrCowhether it's a higher power, the collective unconscious, or a sense of cosmic unity.
To Summarize:
In psychoanalysis, a "religious personality" might display traits such> as:
A heightened need for security and protection
Obedience to authority figures (divine or human)
A strong, perhaps guilt-ridden, superego
Idealization of religious figures
Conflict between unconscious desires (id) and moral standards
(superego)
Neurotic behaviors, particularly related to anxiety and ritualistic
behavior
Projection of internal emotional conflicts onto religious symbols
Different psychoanalysts offer different views on the relationship
between religion and personality, but overall, they tend to agree that> religion can serve as both a coping mechanism and a way of navigating
deeper psychological processes.
You said:Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
Thank you, is epigenetics relevant in ongoing generations to be
religious?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, epigenetics can be relevant in understanding how religious
tendencies or behaviors might be passed down through generations,
though it's a more indirect process. Epigenetics refers to changes in
gene expression that do not involve alterations to the underlying DNA sequence. Instead, it involves mechanisms like DNA methylation or
histone modification, which can be influenced by environmental factors> and experiences.
In the context of religion, epigenetics could play a role in shaping religious behavior or tendencies across generations in the following
ways:
1. Inherited Stress Responses and Coping Mechanisms:
Religious practices often serve as coping mechanisms for stress,
anxiety, and trauma. If certain family or community environments
(e.g., those involving high levels of stress, hardship, or trauma)
lead to the development of certain epigenetic markers, these markers
might be passed down to offspring. This could influence the way future> generations cope with stress, potentially making them more likely to
turn to religion or spiritual practices as a source of comfort or
meaning.
Example: If an ancestor experienced significant trauma (like war or
loss), the epigenetic changes from those experiences could influence
their offspring's responses to stress. This may make the next
generation more likely to engage in religious or spiritual practices
that provide emotional comfort and structure.
2. Social and Cultural Transmission:
Epigenetic changes can be influenced by the environment and social interactions. If religion plays a significant role in a particular
family or culture, religious behaviors, values, and traditions might
be transmitted through social learning (like parents teaching their
children religious practices). Over time, the social environment can
interact with genetic predispositions, leading to the reinforcement of> religious behaviors.
Example: If a family or community has been strongly religious for generations, certain epigenetic factors could develop in response to
the social and cultural environment. These factors may influence how individuals in later generations perceive and relate to religion.
3. Behavioral Epigenetics and Religious Behavior:
Behavioral epigenetics is a field that looks at how environmental
factors (like parenting, childhood experiences, social conditions, or
even religious exposure) influence gene expression. It's possible that> early experiences with religion, such as the way children are raised
in religious households or the emotional and psychological benefits of> religious engagement, could affect the gene expression related to
emotional regulation, empathy, and social bonding. These biological
changes might influence the likelihood of future generations adopting
similar religious practices.
Example: A child raised in a highly religious environment may develop epigenetic changes related to emotional regulation and social
cooperation. As an adult, this person might be more likely to maintain> those religious practices, which in turn could influence how they
raise their own children, continuing the cycle.
4. Psychological and Emotional Development:
Psychological traits that are linked to religious behaviorrCosuch as conscientiousness, self-control, or openness to spiritual
experiencesrComight also have an epigenetic component. These traits can
be influenced by both genetic predispositions and environmental
factors. If certain epigenetic changes related to these traits are
passed down, it might increase the likelihood of a person being
religious or engaging in religious practices.
Example: If a parent has an epigenetic change that influences
emotional regulation and moral decision-making (traits that are often important in religious contexts), the child may inherit these traits
and be more likely to be influenced by religious teachings or
practices.
5. Intergenerational Effects of Religious Trauma or Experiences:
In cases of religious trauma, where individuals experience negative
effects from religious teachings or institutions, there may be lasting> psychological and emotional impacts that are passed down
epigenetically. For example, a parent who has experienced religious
guilt or fear might pass on epigenetic markers that make their
children more sensitive to similar emotional or psychological
stressors.
Example: A parent who has suffered from religiously induced anxiety
may pass on epigenetic changes that predispose their child to
heightened sensitivity to guilt or anxiety. If this child then becomes> involved in religion, the experience could either exacerbate or
mitigate those predispositions, depending on the context.
6. Gene-Environment Interactions:
Religious behavior could also be the result of complex
gene-environment interactions. Environmental factors, such as exposure> to religious teachings, community support, or childhood experiences of> love and security, might shape an individual's religious identity.
Over time, these environmental influences could lead to epigenetic
changes that affect emotional and cognitive processes, which may
influence future generationsrCO likelihood to engage in religious
practices.
Limitations and Considerations:
Epigenetics is complex: While epigenetics plays a significant role in
gene expression, it is still an emerging field, and the precise
mechanisms linking epigenetics to specific behaviors (like religious tendencies) are not fully understood.
Environmental influence: Religious behavior is deeply shaped by environmental, cultural, and social factors, and epigenetics alone
cannot explain religious tendencies. It is likely to be one part of a
much broader picture that also involves family upbringing, culture, community, and personal experiences.
In Conclusion:
Epigenetics may influence religious behaviors and tendencies across generations, particularly in terms of emotional responses, coping
mechanisms, and social bonding. However, religion is deeply
intertwined with cultural, familial, and societal factors, and it is
the combination of these influencesrCoboth biological and environmentalrCothat shapes religious identities across generations.
While epigenetic changes might subtly influence how individuals
respond to religious environments or practices, they are not the sole determinant of religious belief or behavior.
********************************
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up a> nut tree, and it's all locked in.
God save us all.I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the last tinme --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Please advise.
No they are not copyrighted and you are free to publish them
Yank stuff has to have a copyright thing on them if they are
copyrighted
Thanx to all.-a I have asked about the psychology of religious
followers...including the Freudian explanation.-a-a Vis...
************************
In reference to psychoanalysis.-a What personality traits tend to be
religious?
Its been well known that some schitzophrenics do get religious fantasys
That was clear with Joan of Arc
ChatGPT said:
In psychoanalysis, the idea of a "religious personality" has been
explored, with a particular focus on how religious tendencies are
shaped by the unconscious mind, early childhood experiences, and
internal conflicts. Some psychoanalysts, like Sigmund Freud, Carl
Jung, and Erik Erikson, have explored the intersection of religion and
personality, each providing their own perspective.
Key Personality Traits Often Associated with Religion in
Psychoanalysis:
Dependence and Need for Protection:
In psychoanalytic theory, particularly from Freud's perspective,
religion can be seen as a form of psychological defense mechanism. The
religious person might exhibit a heightened need for security and
protection, often seeking solace in the idea of a higher power or
divine authority. This could stem from early childhood experiences
where the child felt vulnerable and dependent on caregivers. Religion
may serve as a means of psychologically compensating for feelings of
helplessness or anxiety.
Obedience to Authority:
Religious personalities often demonstrate a tendency toward
conformity, obedience, and submission to a higher power or authority
figure. Freud viewed religion as a projection of the father figure,
and he believed that people with strong religious tendencies might
have unresolved issues with their paternal relationships, leading them
to seek authority in external figures (e.g., God, religious leaders,
or doctrines).
Superego Development:
Freud's concept of the superegorCothe part of the psyche that governs
moral behaviorrCooften plays a role in religious personalities. Those
with a religious personality might have an unusually strong superego,
which drives them to adhere strictly to moral codes, rituals, and
religious laws. This can lead to a deep sense of guilt and a need for
atonement, as well as a strong desire to be "good" according to
religious standards.
Idealization and Transference:
Religious individuals may idealize the divine or religious leaders,
which can be understood as a form of transference (in psychoanalytic
terms). This is when a person projects feelings from past
relationships (such as with parents) onto a religious figure or belief
system. The individual may idealize the religious figure as a source
of safety, love, and protection.
Conflict Between Id and Superego:
The religious person may experience internal conflict between the id
(representing desires, impulses, and instincts) and the superego
(representing moralistic, ethical, and religious standards). In
psychoanalytic theory, this conflict can manifest as guilt,
repression, and a strong internal drive to avoid sin or wrongdoing,
often leading to a rigid or highly structured religious adherence.
Neuroticism:
In some cases, religion can be linked to neuroticism, where religious
rituals and practices might serve as a form of psychological coping
with anxiety, fear, or obsessive tendencies. People with neurotic
tendencies might rely on religious practices to soothe or regulate
their emotional states, such as performing rituals repetitively or
seeking reassurance through prayer.
Projection:
Some psychoanalysts suggest that religious individuals might project
their own repressed emotions, desires, or fears onto external symbols
or figures, such as gods, spirits, or the devil. This projection can
serve as a way of dealing with complex emotional states that are
difficult to process consciously.
Separation-Individuation:
From an object relations perspective (which is a psychoanalytic theory
focusing on the importance of early relationships), religion can also
be viewed as a way to navigate the process of separation and
individuation. This process involves an individual gaining a sense of
self and autonomy from primary caregivers. Religion might serve as a
way to find a "new parent figure" or a way to cope with the emotional
challenges of growing up and forming an independent identity.
Self-Transcendence:
On a more positive note, some psychoanalysts, particularly Carl Jung,
saw religious belief as an expression of a deeper yearning for
self-transcendence or integration. Jung believed that religious
experiences could play a significant role in the individuation process
(the development of the whole self), where individuals come to terms
with both their conscious and unconscious aspects. A religious
personality, in this sense, might seek connection with something
larger than themselvesrCowhether it's a higher power, the collective
unconscious, or a sense of cosmic unity.
To Summarize:
In psychoanalysis, a "religious personality" might display traits such
as:
A heightened need for security and protection
Obedience to authority figures (divine or human)
A strong, perhaps guilt-ridden, superego
Idealization of religious figures
Conflict between unconscious desires (id) and moral standards
(superego)
Neurotic behaviors, particularly related to anxiety and ritualistic
behavior
Projection of internal emotional conflicts onto religious symbols
Different psychoanalysts offer different views on the relationship
between religion and personality, but overall, they tend to agree that
religion can serve as both a coping mechanism and a way of navigating
deeper psychological processes.
Not bad
You said:
Thank you, is epigenetics relevant in ongoing generations to be
religious?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, epigenetics can be relevant in understanding how religious
tendencies or behaviors might be passed down through generations,
though it's a more indirect process. Epigenetics refers to changes in
gene expression that do not involve alterations to the underlying DNA
sequence. Instead, it involves mechanisms like DNA methylation or
histone modification, which can be influenced by environmental factors
and experiences.
In the context of religion, epigenetics could play a role in shaping
religious behavior or tendencies across generations in the following
ways:
1. Inherited Stress Responses and Coping Mechanisms:
Religious practices often serve as coping mechanisms for stress,
anxiety, and trauma. If certain family or community environments
(e.g., those involving high levels of stress, hardship, or trauma)
lead to the development of certain epigenetic markers, these markers
might be passed down to offspring. This could influence the way future
generations cope with stress, potentially making them more likely to
turn to religion or spiritual practices as a source of comfort or
meaning.
Example: If an ancestor experienced significant trauma (like war or
loss), the epigenetic changes from those experiences could influence
their offspring's responses to stress. This may make the next
generation more likely to engage in religious or spiritual practices
that provide emotional comfort and structure.
2. Social and Cultural Transmission:
Epigenetic changes can be influenced by the environment and social
interactions. If religion plays a significant role in a particular
family or culture, religious behaviors, values, and traditions might
be transmitted through social learning (like parents teaching their
children religious practices). Over time, the social environment can
interact with genetic predispositions, leading to the reinforcement of
religious behaviors.
Example: If a family or community has been strongly religious for
generations, certain epigenetic factors could develop in response to
the social and cultural environment. These factors may influence how
individuals in later generations perceive and relate to religion.
3. Behavioral Epigenetics and Religious Behavior:
Behavioral epigenetics is a field that looks at how environmental
factors (like parenting, childhood experiences, social conditions, or
even religious exposure) influence gene expression. It's possible that
early experiences with religion, such as the way children are raised
in religious households or the emotional and psychological benefits of
religious engagement, could affect the gene expression related to
emotional regulation, empathy, and social bonding. These biological
changes might influence the likelihood of future generations adopting
similar religious practices.
Example: A child raised in a highly religious environment may develop
epigenetic changes related to emotional regulation and social
cooperation. As an adult, this person might be more likely to maintain
those religious practices, which in turn could influence how they
raise their own children, continuing the cycle.
4. Psychological and Emotional Development:
Psychological traits that are linked to religious behaviorrCosuch as
conscientiousness, self-control, or openness to spiritual
experiencesrComight also have an epigenetic component. These traits can
be influenced by both genetic predispositions and environmental
factors. If certain epigenetic changes related to these traits are
passed down, it might increase the likelihood of a person being
religious or engaging in religious practices.
Example: If a parent has an epigenetic change that influences
emotional regulation and moral decision-making (traits that are often
important in religious contexts), the child may inherit these traits
and be more likely to be influenced by religious teachings or
practices.
5. Intergenerational Effects of Religious Trauma or Experiences:
In cases of religious trauma, where individuals experience negative
effects from religious teachings or institutions, there may be lasting
psychological and emotional impacts that are passed down
epigenetically. For example, a parent who has experienced religious
guilt or fear might pass on epigenetic markers that make their
children more sensitive to similar emotional or psychological
stressors.
Example: A parent who has suffered from religiously induced anxiety
may pass on epigenetic changes that predispose their child to
heightened sensitivity to guilt or anxiety. If this child then becomes
involved in religion, the experience could either exacerbate or
mitigate those predispositions, depending on the context.
6. Gene-Environment Interactions:
Religious behavior could also be the result of complex
gene-environment interactions. Environmental factors, such as exposure
to religious teachings, community support, or childhood experiences of
love and security, might shape an individual's religious identity.
Over time, these environmental influences could lead to epigenetic
changes that affect emotional and cognitive processes, which may
influence future generationsrCO likelihood to engage in religious
practices.
Limitations and Considerations:
Epigenetics is complex: While epigenetics plays a significant role in
gene expression, it is still an emerging field, and the precise
mechanisms linking epigenetics to specific behaviors (like religious
tendencies) are not fully understood.
Environmental influence: Religious behavior is deeply shaped by
environmental, cultural, and social factors, and epigenetics alone
cannot explain religious tendencies. It is likely to be one part of a
much broader picture that also involves family upbringing, culture,
community, and personal experiences.
In Conclusion:
Epigenetics may influence religious behaviors and tendencies across
generations, particularly in terms of emotional responses, coping
mechanisms, and social bonding. However, religion is deeply
intertwined with cultural, familial, and societal factors, and it is
the combination of these influencesrCoboth biological and
environmentalrCothat shapes religious identities across generations.
While epigenetic changes might subtly influence how individuals
respond to religious environments or practices, they are not the sole
determinant of religious belief or behavior.
********************************
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up a
nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
--God save us all.
I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the
last tinme
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote<snip>
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
not really hard to explain.********************************
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up a >>>> nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
who founded the most-a common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an incredible
amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example, the
New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport to
establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict each other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is not
proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
No one else believes that shit--
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant anyway.
many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and especially
the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
God save us all.
I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the
last tinme
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up >>>>> a nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and attended
an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from organized religion
and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have ancient origins.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has is keepingitself relevant
in the face of ever increasing knowledge
and changing social mores that rendersit's teachings redundant or anachronistic.
who founded the most common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an incredible
amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example, the
New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport to
establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict each other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is not
proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant anyway.
many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and especially
the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Please advise.
No they are not copyrighted and you are free to publish them
Yank stuff has to have a copyright thing on them if they are copyrighted
Thanx to all. I have asked about the psychology of religious
followers...including the Freudian explanation. Vis...
************************
In reference to psychoanalysis. What personality traits tend to be
religious?
Its been well known that some schitzophrenics do get religious fantasys
That was clear with Joan of Arc
ChatGPT said:
In psychoanalysis, the idea of a "religious personality" has been
explored, with a particular focus on how religious tendencies are
shaped by the unconscious mind, early childhood experiences, and
internal conflicts. Some psychoanalysts, like Sigmund Freud, Carl
Jung, and Erik Erikson, have explored the intersection of religion and
personality, each providing their own perspective.
Key Personality Traits Often Associated with Religion in
Psychoanalysis:
Dependence and Need for Protection:
In psychoanalytic theory, particularly from Freud's perspective,
religion can be seen as a form of psychological defense mechanism. The
religious person might exhibit a heightened need for security and
protection, often seeking solace in the idea of a higher power or
divine authority. This could stem from early childhood experiences
where the child felt vulnerable and dependent on caregivers. Religion
may serve as a means of psychologically compensating for feelings of
helplessness or anxiety.
Obedience to Authority:
Religious personalities often demonstrate a tendency toward
conformity, obedience, and submission to a higher power or authority
figure. Freud viewed religion as a projection of the father figure,
and he believed that people with strong religious tendencies might
have unresolved issues with their paternal relationships, leading them
to seek authority in external figures (e.g., God, religious leaders,
or doctrines).
Superego Development:
Freud's concept of the superegouthe part of the psyche that governs
moral behavioruoften plays a role in religious personalities. Those
with a religious personality might have an unusually strong superego,
which drives them to adhere strictly to moral codes, rituals, and
religious laws. This can lead to a deep sense of guilt and a need for
atonement, as well as a strong desire to be "good" according to
religious standards.
Idealization and Transference:
Religious individuals may idealize the divine or religious leaders,
which can be understood as a form of transference (in psychoanalytic
terms). This is when a person projects feelings from past
relationships (such as with parents) onto a religious figure or belief
system. The individual may idealize the religious figure as a source
of safety, love, and protection.
Conflict Between Id and Superego:
The religious person may experience internal conflict between the id
(representing desires, impulses, and instincts) and the superego
(representing moralistic, ethical, and religious standards). In
psychoanalytic theory, this conflict can manifest as guilt,
repression, and a strong internal drive to avoid sin or wrongdoing,
often leading to a rigid or highly structured religious adherence.
Neuroticism:
In some cases, religion can be linked to neuroticism, where religious
rituals and practices might serve as a form of psychological coping
with anxiety, fear, or obsessive tendencies. People with neurotic
tendencies might rely on religious practices to soothe or regulate
their emotional states, such as performing rituals repetitively or
seeking reassurance through prayer.
Projection:
Some psychoanalysts suggest that religious individuals might project
their own repressed emotions, desires, or fears onto external symbols
or figures, such as gods, spirits, or the devil. This projection can
serve as a way of dealing with complex emotional states that are
difficult to process consciously.
Separation-Individuation:
From an object relations perspective (which is a psychoanalytic theory
focusing on the importance of early relationships), religion can also
be viewed as a way to navigate the process of separation and
individuation. This process involves an individual gaining a sense of
self and autonomy from primary caregivers. Religion might serve as a
way to find a "new parent figure" or a way to cope with the emotional
challenges of growing up and forming an independent identity.
Self-Transcendence:
On a more positive note, some psychoanalysts, particularly Carl Jung,
saw religious belief as an expression of a deeper yearning for
self-transcendence or integration. Jung believed that religious
experiences could play a significant role in the individuation process
(the development of the whole self), where individuals come to terms
with both their conscious and unconscious aspects. A religious
personality, in this sense, might seek connection with something
larger than themselvesuwhether it's a higher power, the collective
unconscious, or a sense of cosmic unity.
To Summarize:
In psychoanalysis, a "religious personality" might display traits such
as:
A heightened need for security and protection
Obedience to authority figures (divine or human)
A strong, perhaps guilt-ridden, superego
Idealization of religious figures
Conflict between unconscious desires (id) and moral standards
(superego)
Neurotic behaviors, particularly related to anxiety and ritualistic
behavior
Projection of internal emotional conflicts onto religious symbols
Different psychoanalysts offer different views on the relationship
between religion and personality, but overall, they tend to agree that
religion can serve as both a coping mechanism and a way of navigating
deeper psychological processes.
Not bad
You said:
Thank you, is epigenetics relevant in ongoing generations to be
religious?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, epigenetics can be relevant in understanding how religious
tendencies or behaviors might be passed down through generations,
though it's a more indirect process. Epigenetics refers to changes in
gene expression that do not involve alterations to the underlying DNA
sequence. Instead, it involves mechanisms like DNA methylation or
histone modification, which can be influenced by environmental factors
and experiences.
In the context of religion, epigenetics could play a role in shaping
religious behavior or tendencies across generations in the following
ways:
1. Inherited Stress Responses and Coping Mechanisms:
Religious practices often serve as coping mechanisms for stress,
anxiety, and trauma. If certain family or community environments
(e.g., those involving high levels of stress, hardship, or trauma)
lead to the development of certain epigenetic markers, these markers
might be passed down to offspring. This could influence the way future
generations cope with stress, potentially making them more likely to
turn to religion or spiritual practices as a source of comfort or
meaning.
Example: If an ancestor experienced significant trauma (like war or
loss), the epigenetic changes from those experiences could influence
their offspring's responses to stress. This may make the next
generation more likely to engage in religious or spiritual practices
that provide emotional comfort and structure.
2. Social and Cultural Transmission:
Epigenetic changes can be influenced by the environment and social
interactions. If religion plays a significant role in a particular
family or culture, religious behaviors, values, and traditions might
be transmitted through social learning (like parents teaching their
children religious practices). Over time, the social environment can
interact with genetic predispositions, leading to the reinforcement of
religious behaviors.
Example: If a family or community has been strongly religious for
generations, certain epigenetic factors could develop in response to
the social and cultural environment. These factors may influence how
individuals in later generations perceive and relate to religion.
3. Behavioral Epigenetics and Religious Behavior:
Behavioral epigenetics is a field that looks at how environmental
factors (like parenting, childhood experiences, social conditions, or
even religious exposure) influence gene expression. It's possible that
early experiences with religion, such as the way children are raised
in religious households or the emotional and psychological benefits of
religious engagement, could affect the gene expression related to
emotional regulation, empathy, and social bonding. These biological
changes might influence the likelihood of future generations adopting
similar religious practices.
Example: A child raised in a highly religious environment may develop
epigenetic changes related to emotional regulation and social
cooperation. As an adult, this person might be more likely to maintain
those religious practices, which in turn could influence how they
raise their own children, continuing the cycle.
4. Psychological and Emotional Development:
Psychological traits that are linked to religious behaviorusuch as
conscientiousness, self-control, or openness to spiritual
experiencesumight also have an epigenetic component. These traits can
be influenced by both genetic predispositions and environmental
factors. If certain epigenetic changes related to these traits are
passed down, it might increase the likelihood of a person being
religious or engaging in religious practices.
Example: If a parent has an epigenetic change that influences
emotional regulation and moral decision-making (traits that are often
important in religious contexts), the child may inherit these traits
and be more likely to be influenced by religious teachings or
practices.
5. Intergenerational Effects of Religious Trauma or Experiences:
In cases of religious trauma, where individuals experience negative
effects from religious teachings or institutions, there may be lasting
psychological and emotional impacts that are passed down
epigenetically. For example, a parent who has experienced religious
guilt or fear might pass on epigenetic markers that make their
children more sensitive to similar emotional or psychological
stressors.
Example: A parent who has suffered from religiously induced anxiety
may pass on epigenetic changes that predispose their child to
heightened sensitivity to guilt or anxiety. If this child then becomes
involved in religion, the experience could either exacerbate or
mitigate those predispositions, depending on the context.
6. Gene-Environment Interactions:
Religious behavior could also be the result of complex
gene-environment interactions. Environmental factors, such as exposure
to religious teachings, community support, or childhood experiences of
love and security, might shape an individual's religious identity.
Over time, these environmental influences could lead to epigenetic
changes that affect emotional and cognitive processes, which may
influence future generationsA likelihood to engage in religious
practices.
Limitations and Considerations:
Epigenetics is complex: While epigenetics plays a significant role in
gene expression, it is still an emerging field, and the precise
mechanisms linking epigenetics to specific behaviors (like religious
tendencies) are not fully understood.
Environmental influence: Religious behavior is deeply shaped by
environmental, cultural, and social factors, and epigenetics alone
cannot explain religious tendencies. It is likely to be one part of a
much broader picture that also involves family upbringing, culture,
community, and personal experiences.
In Conclusion:
Epigenetics may influence religious behaviors and tendencies across
generations, particularly in terms of emotional responses, coping
mechanisms, and social bonding. However, religion is deeply
intertwined with cultural, familial, and societal factors, and it is
the combination of these influencesuboth biological and
environmentaluthat shapes religious identities across generations.
While epigenetic changes might subtly influence how individuals
respond to religious environments or practices, they are not the sole
determinant of religious belief or behavior.
********************************
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up a
nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
God save us all.
I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the last >tinme
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo >>>>>> up aa nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from
organized religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't
think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God
who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a
God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam
have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has isa keeping itself
relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
anda changing social mores that renders it's teachings redundant ora
anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the mosta common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an incredible
amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example,
the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport
to establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict each
other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is not
proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
--No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant
anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and
especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and
human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
On Tue, 01 Apr 2025 14:21:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wroteProbably the rise of the welfare state. Religious institutions were
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wroteIts been well known that some schitzophrenics do get religious fantasys
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrotefollowers...including the Freudian explanation. Vis...
Please advise.No they are not copyrighted and you are free to publish them
Yank stuff has to have a copyright thing on them if they are copyrighted >>> Thanx to all. I have asked about the psychology of religious
************************
In reference to psychoanalysis. What personality traits tend to be
religious?
That was clear with Joan of Arc
ChatGPT said:Not bad
In psychoanalysis, the idea of a "religious personality" has been
explored, with a particular focus on how religious tendencies are
shaped by the unconscious mind, early childhood experiences, and
internal conflicts. Some psychoanalysts, like Sigmund Freud, Carl
Jung, and Erik Erikson, have explored the intersection of religion and
personality, each providing their own perspective.
Key Personality Traits Often Associated with Religion in
Psychoanalysis:
Dependence and Need for Protection:
In psychoanalytic theory, particularly from Freud's perspective,
religion can be seen as a form of psychological defense mechanism. The
religious person might exhibit a heightened need for security and
protection, often seeking solace in the idea of a higher power or
divine authority. This could stem from early childhood experiences
where the child felt vulnerable and dependent on caregivers. Religion
may serve as a means of psychologically compensating for feelings of
helplessness or anxiety.
Obedience to Authority:
Religious personalities often demonstrate a tendency toward
conformity, obedience, and submission to a higher power or authority
figure. Freud viewed religion as a projection of the father figure,
and he believed that people with strong religious tendencies might
have unresolved issues with their paternal relationships, leading them
to seek authority in external figures (e.g., God, religious leaders,
or doctrines).
Superego Development:
Freud's concept of the superegorCothe part of the psyche that governs
moral behaviorrCooften plays a role in religious personalities. Those
with a religious personality might have an unusually strong superego,
which drives them to adhere strictly to moral codes, rituals, and
religious laws. This can lead to a deep sense of guilt and a need for
atonement, as well as a strong desire to be "good" according to
religious standards.
Idealization and Transference:
Religious individuals may idealize the divine or religious leaders,
which can be understood as a form of transference (in psychoanalytic
terms). This is when a person projects feelings from past
relationships (such as with parents) onto a religious figure or belief
system. The individual may idealize the religious figure as a source
of safety, love, and protection.
Conflict Between Id and Superego:
The religious person may experience internal conflict between the id
(representing desires, impulses, and instincts) and the superego
(representing moralistic, ethical, and religious standards). In
psychoanalytic theory, this conflict can manifest as guilt,
repression, and a strong internal drive to avoid sin or wrongdoing,
often leading to a rigid or highly structured religious adherence.
Neuroticism:
In some cases, religion can be linked to neuroticism, where religious
rituals and practices might serve as a form of psychological coping
with anxiety, fear, or obsessive tendencies. People with neurotic
tendencies might rely on religious practices to soothe or regulate
their emotional states, such as performing rituals repetitively or
seeking reassurance through prayer.
Projection:
Some psychoanalysts suggest that religious individuals might project
their own repressed emotions, desires, or fears onto external symbols
or figures, such as gods, spirits, or the devil. This projection can
serve as a way of dealing with complex emotional states that are
difficult to process consciously.
Separation-Individuation:
From an object relations perspective (which is a psychoanalytic theory
focusing on the importance of early relationships), religion can also
be viewed as a way to navigate the process of separation and
individuation. This process involves an individual gaining a sense of
self and autonomy from primary caregivers. Religion might serve as a
way to find a "new parent figure" or a way to cope with the emotional
challenges of growing up and forming an independent identity.
Self-Transcendence:
On a more positive note, some psychoanalysts, particularly Carl Jung,
saw religious belief as an expression of a deeper yearning for
self-transcendence or integration. Jung believed that religious
experiences could play a significant role in the individuation process
(the development of the whole self), where individuals come to terms
with both their conscious and unconscious aspects. A religious
personality, in this sense, might seek connection with something
larger than themselvesrCowhether it's a higher power, the collective
unconscious, or a sense of cosmic unity.
To Summarize:
In psychoanalysis, a "religious personality" might display traits such
as:
A heightened need for security and protection
Obedience to authority figures (divine or human)
A strong, perhaps guilt-ridden, superego
Idealization of religious figures
Conflict between unconscious desires (id) and moral standards
(superego)
Neurotic behaviors, particularly related to anxiety and ritualistic
behavior
Projection of internal emotional conflicts onto religious symbols
Different psychoanalysts offer different views on the relationship
between religion and personality, but overall, they tend to agree that
religion can serve as both a coping mechanism and a way of navigating
deeper psychological processes.
You said:Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
Thank you, is epigenetics relevant in ongoing generations to be
religious?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, epigenetics can be relevant in understanding how religious
tendencies or behaviors might be passed down through generations,
though it's a more indirect process. Epigenetics refers to changes in
gene expression that do not involve alterations to the underlying DNA
sequence. Instead, it involves mechanisms like DNA methylation or
histone modification, which can be influenced by environmental factors
and experiences.
In the context of religion, epigenetics could play a role in shaping
religious behavior or tendencies across generations in the following
ways:
1. Inherited Stress Responses and Coping Mechanisms:
Religious practices often serve as coping mechanisms for stress,
anxiety, and trauma. If certain family or community environments
(e.g., those involving high levels of stress, hardship, or trauma)
lead to the development of certain epigenetic markers, these markers
might be passed down to offspring. This could influence the way future
generations cope with stress, potentially making them more likely to
turn to religion or spiritual practices as a source of comfort or
meaning.
Example: If an ancestor experienced significant trauma (like war or
loss), the epigenetic changes from those experiences could influence
their offspring's responses to stress. This may make the next
generation more likely to engage in religious or spiritual practices
that provide emotional comfort and structure.
2. Social and Cultural Transmission:
Epigenetic changes can be influenced by the environment and social
interactions. If religion plays a significant role in a particular
family or culture, religious behaviors, values, and traditions might
be transmitted through social learning (like parents teaching their
children religious practices). Over time, the social environment can
interact with genetic predispositions, leading to the reinforcement of
religious behaviors.
Example: If a family or community has been strongly religious for
generations, certain epigenetic factors could develop in response to
the social and cultural environment. These factors may influence how
individuals in later generations perceive and relate to religion.
3. Behavioral Epigenetics and Religious Behavior:
Behavioral epigenetics is a field that looks at how environmental
factors (like parenting, childhood experiences, social conditions, or
even religious exposure) influence gene expression. It's possible that
early experiences with religion, such as the way children are raised
in religious households or the emotional and psychological benefits of
religious engagement, could affect the gene expression related to
emotional regulation, empathy, and social bonding. These biological
changes might influence the likelihood of future generations adopting
similar religious practices.
Example: A child raised in a highly religious environment may develop
epigenetic changes related to emotional regulation and social
cooperation. As an adult, this person might be more likely to maintain
those religious practices, which in turn could influence how they
raise their own children, continuing the cycle.
4. Psychological and Emotional Development:
Psychological traits that are linked to religious behaviorrCosuch as
conscientiousness, self-control, or openness to spiritual
experiencesrComight also have an epigenetic component. These traits can
be influenced by both genetic predispositions and environmental
factors. If certain epigenetic changes related to these traits are
passed down, it might increase the likelihood of a person being
religious or engaging in religious practices.
Example: If a parent has an epigenetic change that influences
emotional regulation and moral decision-making (traits that are often
important in religious contexts), the child may inherit these traits
and be more likely to be influenced by religious teachings or
practices.
5. Intergenerational Effects of Religious Trauma or Experiences:
In cases of religious trauma, where individuals experience negative
effects from religious teachings or institutions, there may be lasting
psychological and emotional impacts that are passed down
epigenetically. For example, a parent who has experienced religious
guilt or fear might pass on epigenetic markers that make their
children more sensitive to similar emotional or psychological
stressors.
Example: A parent who has suffered from religiously induced anxiety
may pass on epigenetic changes that predispose their child to
heightened sensitivity to guilt or anxiety. If this child then becomes
involved in religion, the experience could either exacerbate or
mitigate those predispositions, depending on the context.
6. Gene-Environment Interactions:
Religious behavior could also be the result of complex
gene-environment interactions. Environmental factors, such as exposure
to religious teachings, community support, or childhood experiences of
love and security, might shape an individual's religious identity.
Over time, these environmental influences could lead to epigenetic
changes that affect emotional and cognitive processes, which may
influence future generationsrCO likelihood to engage in religious
practices.
Limitations and Considerations:
Epigenetics is complex: While epigenetics plays a significant role in
gene expression, it is still an emerging field, and the precise
mechanisms linking epigenetics to specific behaviors (like religious
tendencies) are not fully understood.
Environmental influence: Religious behavior is deeply shaped by
environmental, cultural, and social factors, and epigenetics alone
cannot explain religious tendencies. It is likely to be one part of a
much broader picture that also involves family upbringing, culture,
community, and personal experiences.
In Conclusion:
Epigenetics may influence religious behaviors and tendencies across
generations, particularly in terms of emotional responses, coping
mechanisms, and social bonding. However, religion is deeply
intertwined with cultural, familial, and societal factors, and it is
the combination of these influencesrCoboth biological and
environmentalrCothat shapes religious identities across generations.
While epigenetic changes might subtly influence how individuals
respond to religious environments or practices, they are not the sole
determinant of religious belief or behavior.
********************************
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo up a
nut tree, and it's all locked in.
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
always a defacto "welfare state" in education, hospitals, orphanages
etc, now taken over by govts.
The difficulty in revruitment of quality clergy given the endless opportunities in the secular world.
The rise in education, news media and prosperity. Religion was
always the opium of the poorer sort.
--O goody! Will you wear those 12" pumps, vinyl tights, and purple wig;God save us all.I'd have you publicly flogged if you hadnt enjoyed that so much the last
tinme
like last time?
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a cuckoo >>>>>>> up a nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
it is what's happened and what is happening.
how many ppl do you know who believe that thunderand lightning are
caused by gods being angry,
or that the earth is flat?
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from organized >>> religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think >>> I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who
reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God
who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
so no longer persons of traditional faith as you claimed
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam
have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has is keeping itself
relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
it has everything to do with knowledge.
every time something in the bible is proven false,it's another nail in
the coffin for Xtianity
and changing social mores that renders it's teachings redundant or
anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
which is a good example of social mores rendering the church'steachings redundant or anachronistic, just as i said
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the most common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an incredible >>>>> amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example,
the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport to >>>>> establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict each
other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is not >>>>> proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
you've misrepresented what I said, viz; "Xtians believe thatJesus was
born of a virgin impregnated by the spirit of God",
which is a core tenet of all Christian persuasions.
but your right, veneration of Mary is a Catholic only thing, afaik.--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant
anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and
especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and
human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a
cuckoo up aa nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
it is what's happened and what is happening.
Doesnt explain why there was lots of knowledge
in the 19th century but very few atheists.
how many ppl do you knowa who believe that thunder and lightning are
caused by gods being angry,
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
or that the earth is flat?
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from
organized religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't
think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God
who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a
God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
so no longer persons of traditional faith as you claimed
I never said anything about traditional faith,
we are discussing any belief in any sky fairy.
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam
have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has isa keeping itself
relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
it has everything to do with knowledge.
Are you Punch or Judy ?
every time something in thea bible is proven false, it's another nail
in the coffin for Xtianity
Mindlessly simplistic given that everyone knew that
no one was ever turned to a pillar of salt, that no one
survived a trip thru a whale and Darwin proved that
there never was any personal creation of every single
animal by some god or other in the 19th century but
that did not produce any atheists then
anda changing social mores that renders it's teachings redundant
ora anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
which is a good example of social mores rendering the church's
teachings redundant or anachronistic, just as i said
That's not knowledge as you ignorantly claimed.
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the mosta common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an
incredible amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example, >>>>>> the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport >>>>>> to establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict
each other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is
not proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
you've misrepresented what I said, viz; "Xtians believe that Jesus
was born of a virgin impregnated by the spirit of God",
Plenty of xtians don't, as that article says,
which is a core tenet of all Christian persuasions.
BULLSHIT
--but your right, veneration of Mary is a Catholic only thing, afaik.
No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant
anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and
especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and
human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
Rod Speed wrote:
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a
cuckoo up a nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
it is what's happened and what is happening.
Doesnt explain why there was lots of knowledge
in the 19th century but very few atheists.
there's a lot more knowledge now about everything than there was in
the 1800's
how many ppl do you knowa who believe that thunder and lightning are
caused by gods being angry,
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
or that the earth is flat?
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
those are just examples to illustrate the point.
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from
organized religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't
think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God
who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in
a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
so no longer persons of traditional faith as you claimed
I never said anything about traditional faith,
we are discussing any belief in any sky fairy.
belief in God is generally taken to mean belief in a Creator Being,
and especially one who takes an interest in human affairs.
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and
Islam have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has isa keeping itself
relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
it has everything to do with knowledge.
Are you Punch or Judy ?
every time something in thea bible is proven false, it's another
nail in the coffin for Xtianity
Mindlessly simplistic given that everyone knew that
no one was ever turned to a pillar of salt, that no one
survived a trip thru a whale and Darwin proved that
there never was any personal creation of every single
animal by some god or other in the 19th century but
that did not produce any atheists then
more ppl believed those things in the past than now, and many still do believe them
anda changing social mores that renders it's teachings redundant
ora anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
which is a good example of social mores rendering the church's
teachings redundant or anachronistic, just as i said
That's not knowledge as you ignorantly claimed.
you ask why there are more atheists today, and I've given you reasons
why there are, as has Peter Jason, but you don't seem to want accept
any of them
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the mosta common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an
incredible amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for
example, the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus
that purport to establish a lineage to King David. however they >>>>>>> contradict each other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is
not proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a
virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
you've misrepresented what I said, viz; "Xtians believe that Jesus
was born of a virgin impregnated by the spirit of God",
Plenty of xtians don't, as that article says,
that article is about Marian devotions, not the Virgin Birth
which is a core tenet of all Christian persuasions.
BULLSHIT
as I said, it's a core belief of the Xtian faith for both protestant
and catholic persuasions, and AI agrees..
"Most mainstream Christian denominations, including Roman Catholic,
Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestant churches, believe that Jesus was
born of a virgin, a core tenet of their faith"
it's part of the Apostles Creed used by mainstream Christian Churches
as a declaration of faith and for devotions, prayers, etc.,
"The Apostles' Creed is a statement of Christian faith that has been
used in various forms since the early centuries of Christianity. It's
often recited in church services and serves as a summary of essential Christian beliefs."
but your right, veneration of Mary is a Catholic only thing, afaik.
No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant
anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and >>>>>>> especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and >>>>>>> human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a >>>>>>>>> cuckoo up a nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
it is what's happened and what is happening.
Doesnt explain why there was lots of knowledge
in the 19th century but very few atheists.
there's a lot more knowledge now abouteverything than there was in the 1800's
how many ppl do you know who believe that thunderand lightning are
caused by gods being angry,
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
or that the earth is flat?
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
those are just examples to illustrate the point.
or why so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from
organized religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't
think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God >>>>> who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a >>>>> God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
so no longer persons of traditional faith as you claimed
I never said anything about traditional faith,
we are discussing any belief in any sky fairy.
belief in God is generally taken to mean belief in a Creator Being,
and especially one who takes an interest in human affairs.
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam >>>>> have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has is keeping itself
relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
it has everything to do with knowledge.
Are you Punch or Judy ?
every time something in the bible is proven false, it's another nail
in the coffin for Xtianity
Mindlessly simplistic given that everyone knew that
no one was ever turned to a pillar of salt, that no one
survived a trip thru a whale and Darwin proved that
there never was any personal creation of every single
animal by some god or other in the 19th century but
that did not produce any atheists then
more ppl believed those things in the pastthan now, and many still do believe them
and changing social mores that rendersit's teachings redundant or >>>>> anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
which is a good example of social mores rendering the church's
teachings redundant or anachronistic, just as i said
That's not knowledge as you ignorantly claimed.
you ask why there are more atheists today,
and I've given you reasons why there are,
as has Peter Jason,
but you don't seem to want accept any of them
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the most common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an
incredible amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example, >>>>>>> the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport >>>>>>> to establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict each >>>>>>> other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers could even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is not >>>>>>> proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
you've misrepresented what I said, viz; "Xtians believe that Jesus was >>> born of a virgin impregnated by the spirit of God",
Plenty of xtians don't, as that article says,
that article is about Marian devotions, not the Virgin Birth
which is a core tenet of all Christian persuasions.
BULLSHIT
as I said, it's a core belief of the Xtian faith for both protestant
and catholic persuasions,
and AI agrees..
"Most mainstream Christian denominations, including Roman Catholic,
Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestant churches,
believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, a core tenet of their faith"
it's part of the Apostles Creed used by mainstream Christian Churches as
a declaration of faith and for devotions, prayers, etc.,
"The Apostles' Creed is a statement of Christian faith that has been
used in various forms since the early centuries of Christianity. It's
often recited in church services and serves as a summary of essential Christian beliefs."
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2but your right, veneration of Mary is a Catholic only thing, afaik.
No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant
anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and >>>>>>> especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and >>>>>>> human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
MightyMouse wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MightyMouse <squeak!@cheesefactory.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
To summarize therefore, religious people are as crazy as a >>>>>>>>>> cuckoo up a nut tree, and it's all locked in.
Yep, but the real problem with that claim is that it is
hard to explain why almost everyone was a nut case
at one time and now far fewer are.
not really hard to explain.
We'll see...
knowledge dispels religious beliefs.
Doesnt explain why there have been so many
more atheists in say the last 50 years,
of course it does. there's less reason to believe in God if we
discover things we attributed to God have a rational explanation
That isnt what has happened
it is what's happened and what is happening.
Doesnt explain why there was lots of knowledge
in the 19th century but very few atheists.
there's a lot more knowledge now about everything than there was in the
1800's
how many ppl do you know who believe that thunder and lightning are >>>> caused by gods being angry,
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
or that the earth is flat?
We stopped doing that LONG before there were many atheists
those are just examples to illustrate the point.
or why
so many of the most famous scientists like
Darwin and Einstein believed in some sky fairy
In fact its hard to some up with many who were atheists
AI says:
"While Charles Darwin initially had a Unitarian background and
attended an Anglican school, he later distanced himself from
organized religion and became an agnostic, not an atheist"
So not an atheist, as I said
"Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't >>>>>> think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God >>>>>> who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a >>>>>> God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
So not an atheist, as I said
so no longer persons of traditional faith as you claimed
I never said anything about traditional faith,
we are discussing any belief in any sky fairy.
belief in God is generally taken to mean belief in a Creator Being, and
especially one who takes an interest in human affairs.
we know now far more about our world than the ancients
We arent talking about ancients.
the worlds most popular religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam >>>>>> have ancient origins.
But there were plenty of superficially xtian cults
that got started in the 19th century and they
clearly believe in some sky fairy or other.
in fact one of the main problems Xtianity has is keeping itself >>>>>> relevant in the face of ever increasing knowledge
It really has nothing to do with knowledge.
it has everything to do with knowledge.
Are you Punch or Judy ?
every time something in the bible is proven false, it's another nail >>>> in the coffin for Xtianity
Mindlessly simplistic given that everyone knew that
no one was ever turned to a pillar of salt, that no one
survived a trip thru a whale and Darwin proved that
there never was any personal creation of every single
animal by some god or other in the 19th century but
that did not produce any atheists then
more ppl believed those things in the past than now, and many still do
believe them
and changing social mores that renders it's teachings redundant >>>>>> or anachronistic.
Its actually about the church's practices like woman
priests and stuff like that rather than knowledge
which is a good example of social mores rendering the church's
teachings redundant or anachronistic, just as i said
That's not knowledge as you ignorantly claimed.
you ask why there are more atheists today, and I've given you reasons
why there are, as has Peter Jason, but you don't seem to want accept
any of them
And we have had new religions in the 20th century
too like Scientology and the Bagwan etc. Clearly some
need cults like that, nothing to do with knowledge.
who founded the most common religions.
Its far from clear that they did believe the shit they
spewed or were just good con men who realised
that they could get their devotees to buy their shit
if they claimed that some god or other spoke to
them personally and they just wrote it down like
the goat fucker claimed.
Hard to see how someone could just proclaim
that some god or other had told him that everyone
had to hack the end off their kid's dick on day 7
or whenever it is and they just whipped out their
knives and started hacking away
Hard to see that even Billy Graham could get away with that.
for example, we know there is no heaven above us only an
incredible amazing universe.
It was never claimed to be something we could see until we carked >>>>>>> it
Religion is clearly a massive con job designed to
get people to do what they would not otherwise
do or else they would end up in hell etc and to
provide a cushy existence for the priest etc.
Or just a crutch for pathetically inadequate
'minds' that just can't accept that when you
die, that's all there is, you just rot or get
cremated or feasted on by vultures etc.
also our own intellect challenges religious beliefs. for example, >>>>>>>> the New Testament mentions two genealogies for Jesus that purport >>>>>>>> to establish a lineage to King David. however they contradict >>>>>>>> each other,
The problem with that line is that few of the god
botherers couldn't even read a bible in their own
language until only few hundred years ago and even
when they could they still believed the shit in it.
so the Xtian belief that Jesus is descended from king David is >>>>>>>> not proven. but since Xtians believe that Jesus was born of a >>>>>>>> virgin
That is unique to the roman catholic church
no it's not
Corse it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_devotions#:~:text=Marian%20devotions%20are%20external%20pious,rejected%20in%20other%20Christian%20denominations.
you've misrepresented what I said, viz; "Xtians believe that Jesus
was born of a virgin impregnated by the spirit of God",
Plenty of xtians don't, as that article says,
that article is about Marian devotions, not the Virgin Birth
which is a core tenet of all Christian persuasions.
BULLSHIT
as I said, it's a core belief of the Xtian faith for both protestant
and catholic persuasions, and AI agrees..
"Most mainstream Christian denominations, including Roman Catholic,
Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestant churches, believe that Jesus was
born of a virgin, a core tenet of their faith"
it's part of the Apostles Creed used by mainstream Christian Churches
as a declaration of faith and for devotions, prayers, etc.,
"The Apostles' Creed is a statement of Christian faith that has been
used in various forms since the early centuries of Christianity. It's
often recited in church services and serves as a summary of essential
Christian beliefs."
but your right, veneration of Mary is a Catholic only thing, afaik.
No one else believes that shit
impregnated by the spirit of God, any genealogy is irrelevant >>>>>>>> anyway. many religious beliefs are known to be simply wrong, and >>>>>>>> especially the earliest beliefs about the creation of earth and >>>>>>>> human life.
Plenty of the worst of them still believe that shit
And xtianity is just one religion anyway
btw.. the belief in the virgin birth of Christ as espoused in the New Testament stems from a passage in Isiah referring to a virgin birth.
however, the Hebrew word used there is 'almah' which normally is used to mean a 'young woman', but can also mean a virgin. the Hebrew word for virgin is 'betula', so most likely the verse was mistranslated.
and besides that, it's disputed by biblical scholars whether the Isiah passage refers to the birth of Jesus anyway, which most likely it does
not.
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 69 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 37:16:52 |
| Calls: | 900 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 1,320 |
| D/L today: |
3 files (12,347K bytes) |
| Messages: | 265,688 |