• Totally OT: Water tank weirdness

    From Sylvia Else@sylvia@email.invalid to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 12:37:42 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming
    from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but
    nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot
    water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there
    because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I
    was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the
    house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot
    water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element
    goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a
    hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really
    unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one
    part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it
    goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into
    the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the
    leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is
    the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well
    attached to the framework, and that the tank leak changed the hammer
    pattern enough for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof
    space which is then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in
    the ceiling trim.

    On one level, this seems rather far-fetched. Yet the coincidence in
    timing is remarkable.

    Sylvia.


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 12:53:07 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I
    was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot
    water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element
    goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a hissing noise.

    The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used.
    I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the property?

    If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have
    been cut and capped off....
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Sylvia Else@sylvia@email.invalid to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 13:39:48 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 17-May-22 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:


    The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used.
    I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the property?


    The tank in the garage is the current hot water storage tank/heater.

    Sylvia.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 14:10:48 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 17/5/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming
    from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but
    nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there
    because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I
    was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot
    water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element
    goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one
    part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it
    goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into
    the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the
    leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is
    the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well attached to the framework, and that the tank leak changed the hammer
    pattern enough for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof
    space which is then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in
    the ceiling trim.

    On one level, this seems rather far-fetched. Yet the coincidence in
    timing is remarkable.


    If you can access the other end of the pipe in question it should be
    easy enough to cut and cap it.
    Is it copper or gal? A plumber shouldn't charge too much to do a simple
    job like that if you can't do it yourself.
    Does your bathroom have a ceiling fan?
    If so that the most likely place the dust will be coming from, newer
    ceiling fans have a flap that closes when the fan is not in use so
    fitting a new ceiling fan should solve the dust problem.
    You could also use No More Gaps to seal "a small gap in the ceiling trim".
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 15:57:56 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 17/5/2022 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As
    I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of
    the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the
    hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating
    element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was
    making a hissing noise.

    The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used.
    I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the property?

    If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have
    been cut and capped off....


    Darren, I'm shocked! You've posted a reasonable response, one I could
    agree with, and not a sign of your usual hate filled vitriol and
    invective. Keep it up, it might be a harbinger of a new you, and not
    before time.
    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Tue May 17 20:30:37 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 17/05/2022 1:39 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 17-May-22 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:


    The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being
    used. I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere
    else on the property?


    The tank in the garage is the current hot water storage tank/heater.

    Get a plumber to disconnect the water supply to the old rood mounted
    tank if it's not done already.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Wed May 18 11:08:02 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there
    because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I
    was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot
    water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element
    goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it
    goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into
    the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the
    leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is
    the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well attached to the framework,

    That's not the reason for water hammer.

    and that the tank leak changed the hammer pattern enough

    Due to air getting in.

    for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof space which is
    then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in the ceiling trim.

    The fix is to fix the leak, fill the small gap in the ceiling trim.

    On one level, this seems rather far-fetched.

    Nope, water hammer moves the dust and dirt off the pipe.

    Yet the coincidence in timing is remarkable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Wed May 18 11:24:35 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:53:07 +1000, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:

    On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I
    was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the
    house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot
    water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element
    goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a
    hissing noise.

    The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used.

    Its the new tank in the garage that is under pressure and is leaking,
    stupid.

    I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the property?

    If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have
    been cut and capped off....

    They have and she says that.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Sylvia Else@sylvia@email.invalid to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Wed May 18 12:46:14 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On 18-May-22 11:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't
    coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the
    bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the
    hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there
    because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As
    I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of
    the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the
    hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating
    element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was
    making a hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really
    unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that
    one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot
    water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And
    where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is
    falling into the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the
    leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this
    is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not
    well attached to the framework,

    That's not the reason for water hammer.

    and that the tank leak changed the hammer-a pattern enough

    Due to air getting in.


    Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in.
    Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.

    Sylvia.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Jason@pj@jostle.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Wed May 18 13:43:25 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    On Wed, 18 May 2022 12:46:14 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 18-May-22 11:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't
    coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the
    bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the
    hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there
    because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As
    I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of
    the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the
    hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating
    element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was
    making a hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really
    unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that
    one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot
    water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And
    where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is
    falling into the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the
    leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this
    is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not
    well attached to the framework,

    That's not the reason for water hammer.

    and that the tank leak changed the hammera pattern enough

    Due to air getting in.


    Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in.
    Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.

    Sylvia.

    If it's that "machine-gun" hammer when the tap is turned on, take it
    apart and wrap Teflon tape around the washer spindle to reduce the
    clearance.
    Of course a new tap would be better.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars,aus.electronics on Wed May 18 14:32:28 2022
    From Newsgroup: aus.electronics

    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

    The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into
    the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With
    showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't
    coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the
    bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.

    In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the
    hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there >>> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling
    reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally
    presumed was unused.

    It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As
    I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of
    the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the
    hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating
    element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was
    making a hissing noise.

    Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer
    noise, searching under the house without success.

    My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really >>> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that
    one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot >>> water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And
    where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is
    falling into the bath.

    All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the >>> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this
    is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not
    well attached to the framework,
    That's not the reason for water hammer.

    and that the tank leak changed the hammer pattern enough

    Due to air getting in.

    Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in.

    Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.

    Its more complicated than that, there is air at the top of the hot water cylinder.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2