• Potholes on Princess Freeway

    From lindsay@lindsay@nuneya.biz to aus.cars on Mon Aug 10 11:20:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Aug 10 12:32:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    lindsay <lindsay@nuneya.biz> wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    Always the state

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    Only the rims, not the tyres

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Keithr0@nothing.to.see@here.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Aug 10 19:38:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From lindsay@lindsay@nuneya.biz to aus.cars on Mon Aug 10 19:53:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 10/08/2026 12:32 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    lindsay <lindsay@nuneya.biz> wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope
    Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    Always the state

    cool. So the Vic state govt is responsible for maintenance of a federal freeway. Havent hears a peep form the new "leader" Ben Carroll.

    https://imgur.com/a/9FWo1Lt

    God knows what this has cost, due to inaction of Jacinta Alien and her
    crew of genetic misfits. So much money stuffed down the Suburban Rail
    Loop black hole, and the rail crossing removal as well, the rest of the transport $$$$ for the whole of the state has evaporated. It'll take
    YEARS to recover. Would be interesting to see both sides of Vic politics
    to put a "real" price on repairing Victorians roads before the Nov
    election. From memory, Cint the Bint promised $1.1 billion, Wilson
    promised 4 x more over the next 3 years.

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    Only the rims, not the tyres

    Jesus, if it was me? Id use the tyres like the South Africans used to...

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From lindsay@lindsay@nuneya.biz to aus.cars on Mon Aug 10 19:59:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 10/08/2026 7:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there
    on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    I use that freeway a minimum of 30 times a year (15x, both ways)...
    It's now a contest as to whether there's more potholes, more fog, or
    more fixed speed cameras. Like the rest of the joint, it's a basket case.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Jason@pj@jostle.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 06:59:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or State? >>
    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.
    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.
    Thereafter the rot continued. And the Vic land tax was the coup de
    grace! The denizens of country areas are surrounding their large
    potholes in white paint to warn motorists. Fugg!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 08:08:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's
    east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there
    on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Thereafter the rot continued. And the Vic land tax was the coup de
    grace! The denizens of country areas are surrounding their large
    potholes in white paint to warn motorists. Fugg!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Axel@none@not.here to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 08:43:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Peter Jason wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east. >>>
    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or State? >>>
    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there on >>> Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!
    It even made the news up here in QLD.
    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews who was criminally insane,

    some would even say evil

    much like his predecessors Kennett.

    Kennett delivered Vic from the catastrophe Kirner created. she brought
    the State to the brink of bankruptcy

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    crazy stuff. sure, build new access roads, but why close existing
    crossings and deny motorists the previously existing route as well. only
    Labor could be so stupid.

    Thereafter the rot continued. And the Vic land tax was the coup de
    grace!

    that's criminal stuff. just government sanctioned theft

    The denizens of country areas are surrounding their large
    potholes in white paint to warn motorists. Fugg!

    the problem is stupid Labor just goes with the cheapest quote for road building, or the one their mates supply, and the roads are never built properly in the first place. penny wise and pound foolish. we never had
    the road problems we do now when I was a young fella. it's not due to
    the amount of traffic, as someone here might say.
    --
    Linux Mint 22.3

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Axel@none@not.here to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 08:44:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    lindsay wrote:
    On 10/08/2026 7:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    I use that freeway a minimum of 30 times a year-a (15x, both ways)...
    It's now a contest as to whether there's more potholes, more fog, or
    more fixed speed cameras. Like the rest of the joint, it's a basket case.


    well at least you can't blame the govt for fog
    --
    Linux Mint 22.3

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Axel@none@not.here to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 08:49:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    lindsay wrote:
    On 10/08/2026 12:32 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    lindsay <lindsay@nuneya.biz> wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large
    potholes that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before
    Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it
    was carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    Always the state

    cool. So the Vic state govt is responsible for maintenance of a
    federal freeway. Havent hears a peep form the new "leader" Ben Carroll.

    he has peeped now, vowing to fix this problem, and the roads in general


    https://imgur.com/a/9FWo1Lt

    God knows what this has cost, due to inaction of Jacinta Alien and her
    crew of genetic misfits. So much money stuffed down the Suburban Rail
    Loop black hole, and the rail crossing removal as well, the rest of
    the transport $$$$ for the whole of the state has evaporated. It'll
    take YEARS to recover. Would be interesting to see both sides of Vic politics to put a "real" price on repairing-a Victorians roads before
    the Nov election. From memory, Cint the Bint promised $1.1 billion,
    Wilson promised 4 x more over the next 3 years.

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    Only the rims, not the tyres

    Jesus, if it was me? Id use the tyres like the South Africans used to...

    --
    Linux Mint 22.3

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 09:24:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's
    east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound delays >>>> on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street. >>>>
    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was >>>> carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with damaged >>>> rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.
    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week,
    difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I found
    that the project itself was impressive.
    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most
    expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From lindsay@lindsay@nuneya.biz to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 09:47:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/08/2026 8:49 am, Axel wrote:

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    Always the state

    cool. So the Vic state govt is responsible for maintenance of a
    federal freeway. Havent hears a peep form the new "leader" Ben Carroll.

    he has peeped now, vowing to fix this problem, and the roads in general

    Bit late... Again, the SRL has sucked the state dry, with no ending in
    sight. Till November.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From lindsay@lindsay@nuneya.biz to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 09:52:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/08/2026 9:24 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.
    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week, difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I found that the project itself was impressive.
    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.

    IMHO, the railway xing removal was a good idea at the start... then when
    it was nearly completed (50 xings?) he added another 25 or so to keep
    the unions and bikies happy and in a job/at the trough. No doubt a fair
    bit of the missing $15 billion was spent/wasted/stolen here..

    Gotta get Andrews and Allen in front of a judge...>


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 09:59:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes >>>>> that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope
    Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or >>>>> State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of them

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week, difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 12:34:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes >>>>>> that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope
    Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal
    or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, in
    other words it would be affordable.
    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same time
    than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of time.

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?
    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home due
    to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between her
    workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid of that traffic congestion?
    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue to
    whether or not a project has merit.
    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is can
    Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 12:50:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/8/2026 9:52 am, lindsay wrote:
    On 11/08/2026 9:24 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.
    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week,
    difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I
    found that the project itself was impressive.
    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most
    expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.

    IMHO, the railway xing removal was a good idea at the start... then when
    it was nearly completed (50 xings?) he added another 25 or so to keep
    the unions and bikies happy and in a job/at the trough. No doubt a fair
    bit of the missing $15 billion was spent/wasted/stolen here..

    Agree that the cost is crazy and very likely that is due to union/Govt corruption.
    A while ago I read a story about a new hwy truck stop in SA, the Govt
    was patting itself on the back saying that they had delivered this
    project for a mere $10million, WTF are these cunts on if they think that
    that is good value, $10million for a toilet block and a few truck
    parking bays, more likely $2million to build it and the rest disappears
    into various peoples pockets.
    According to Google, a one kilometer of 2 lane hwy costs between $6 and $8million in Vic, no wonder the roads are fucked when it costs so much
    to fix them.

    Gotta get Andrews and Allen in front of a judge...>


    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 12:52:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large
    potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still >>>>> ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate >>> in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of
    them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, in
    other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same time
    than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to no do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the >>> most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home due
    to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between her
    workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue to whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is can
    Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 13:09:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes >>>>>> that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope
    Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal
    or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those crossings
    were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne in 1980. That
    was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less disruption and
    they could have been dealt with a few at a time, worst ones first. In
    fact they did start with one of the worst ones - the Box Hill/Station
    Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and made a huge difference to
    anyone using Station Street or the Box Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to
    Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times
    which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in 1986
    but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway crossing
    in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road crossings since
    it was halfway between stations and delays were brief. Not so with
    Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to the major road
    crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping the crossings
    closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".>
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week,
    difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I
    found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most
    expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 11:10:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 10/08/2026 5:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope
    Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or
    State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through there
    on Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    Last time I was driving on the Bruce Highway (around 2008 IIRC) it was
    like a goat track in spots. Is it any better these days?
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 13:23:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 12:52 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large
    potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne >>>>>>>> it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan >>>>>> Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still >>>>>> ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of
    them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, in
    other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same time
    than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to no do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has
    the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time. The line I lived on
    was double tracked and train density was at its maximum in both
    directions at peak times.>
    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home due
    to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between her
    workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid of
    that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the track.>
    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue to
    whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is
    can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 13:25:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 9:24 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large potholes >>>>> that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's
    east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound
    delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope Street. >>>>>
    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it was >>>>> carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with
    damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal or >>>>> State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through
    there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate
    in greater Melb.
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the
    most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Definitely. I used to live in railway crossing hell when at Nunawading,
    Every crossing nearby was a grade crossing with lights and long lines of traffic. One by one I watched those grade crossings disappear and the
    traffic flow improve.

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week, difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I found that the project itself was impressive.

    Rail projects remove traffic from the roads - always good for road users
    with no other choice.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.

    Have you had a close look at the Westgate tunnel? It is an alternative
    to the Westgate bridge as an entry to the city and, frankly, is a much
    better alternative than the Westgate Bridge. Think what happens every
    time there is a pileup on the Westgate, even a holdup, traffic from/to
    the west had no alternative. Now it will.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Jason@pj@jostle.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 14:21:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 12:52:11 +1000, "Rod Speed"
    <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan >>>>>> Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still >>>>>> ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate >>>> in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of
    them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, in
    other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same time
    than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to no do that sort of thing at all

    Yes, and why not tunnels and crossovers at all controlled
    intersections? It's quite outrageous how drivers have to wait at
    traffic lights!


    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the >>>> most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    Also it is necessary to break up traffic into packets so there's no
    great congestion at the end of the line.

    Now Victorians are paying big time, with soaring rego and utility
    costs going towards the Vic deficit.




    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home due
    to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between her
    workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid of that >> traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue to
    whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is can
    Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 15:14:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:09:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
    wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote: >>>>
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large
    potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in Victoria's >>>>>>> east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne it >>>>>>> was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still >>>>> ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Yep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those crossings
    were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne in 1980. That
    was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less disruption and
    they could have been dealt with a few at a time, worst ones first. In
    fact they did start with one of the worst ones - the Box Hill/Station Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and made a huge difference to anyone using Station Street or the Box Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times
    which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in 1986
    but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway crossing
    in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road crossings since
    it was halfway between stations and delays were brief. Not so with Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to the major road
    crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping the crossings
    closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every electorate >>> in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of
    them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has the >>> most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion.
    Pity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week,
    difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I
    found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most
    expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East West
    link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 15:22:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne >>>>>>>>> it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan >>>>>>> Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of >>>> them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, in
    other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same time >>> than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home due >>> to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between her
    workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid of
    that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue to
    whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is
    can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:21:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway?
    Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going
    through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan >>>>>>>> Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects,
    in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same
    time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of
    time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual, do you think that that is acceptable?
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km in
    peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do you
    think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times near
    the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the level
    crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is
    between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to
    other big build projects it looks like good value.

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home
    due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between
    her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid
    of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels
    crossings, what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network
    way back when it was first done, most other places separated to two
    transport modes so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.



    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:22:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 3:14 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:09:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
    wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote: >>>>>
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway- >>>>>>>> pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large
    potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne >>>>>>>> it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan >>>>>> Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up politically >>>
    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings (still >>>>>> ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those crossings
    were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne in 1980. That
    was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less disruption and
    they could have been dealt with a few at a time, worst ones first. In
    fact they did start with one of the worst ones - the Box Hill/Station
    Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and made a huge difference to
    anyone using Station Street or the Box Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to
    Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times
    which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in
    1986 but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity
    such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway
    crossing in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road
    crossings since it was halfway between stations and delays were brief.
    Not so with Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to the
    major road crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping the
    crossings closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of
    them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    You should tell that to the Thais. Bangkok is being ringed by elevated roadways and railways, not to forget subways, to reduce or remove the
    accident risk. If you had ever been to Thailand, you would know the
    risks that have been entirely removed - like this;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/16/thailand-bangkok-rail-crossing-collision-freight-train-bus

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has
    the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic congestion. >>> -aPity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week,
    difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I
    found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most
    expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East
    West link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:38:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>> the majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with >>>>>>>>> Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same >>>>> time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, >>>>> in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same
    time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of >>>>> time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial >>>>> vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,

    Bullshit

    do you think that that is acceptable?

    Given the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet

    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do you
    think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?

    I don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.

    Bullshit

    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times near
    the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.

    Bullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    Bullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between
    her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid >>>>> of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels crossings,

    Bullshit it is

    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way back when
    it was first done,

    Bullshit, it worked fine and still does

    most other places separated to two transport modes

    More bullshit

    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    They weren't stupid enough to do anything like that
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:43:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:22:53 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 3:14 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:09:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> >>>> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes-freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne-bound >>>>>>>>> delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC Melbourne >>>>>>>>> it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over with >>>>>>>>> damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? Federal >>>>>>>>> or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going through >>>>>>>>> there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with Dan >>>>>>> Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Yep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those crossings
    were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne in 1980. That >>> was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less disruption and
    they could have been dealt with a few at a time, worst ones first. In
    fact they did start with one of the worst ones - the Box Hill/Station
    Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and made a huge difference to
    anyone using Station Street or the Box Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to
    Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times
    which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in
    1986 but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity
    such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway
    crossing in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road
    crossings since it was halfway between stations and delays were brief. >>> Not so with Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to the
    major road crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping the
    crossings closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many of >>>> them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    You should tell that to the Thais.

    They are not doing anything like that with RAILWAY CROSSINGS

    Bangkok is being ringed by elevated roadways and railways, not to forget subways, to reduce or remove the accident risk.

    Nope, to do something about the utterly insane traffic jams

    Something Melburg never ever has

    If you had ever been to Thailand, you would know the risks that have
    been entirely removed - like this;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/16/thailand-bangkok-rail-crossing-collision-freight-train-bus

    We aren't actually stupid enough to spend anything
    like what Melburg has done to avoid something like that

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last week, >>>>> difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but the I >>>>> found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the most >>>>> expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the East
    West link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:47:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway?
    Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going
    through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan >>>>>>>> Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same
    time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects,
    in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same
    time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of
    time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial
    vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    I have waited up to 20 minutes at Box Hill. That was why they did that
    one back as far as 1983-5.>
    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    Grade crossing removal has been going on for 40 years and more.
    Obviously it has been giving quite a few people the shits for quite a
    long time.>
    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home
    due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between
    her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid
    of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Sydney does not have nearly as many level crossings as Melbourne.
    Melbourne had roughly 180 level crossings on its suburban network,
    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines. There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and
    rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels. What's more,
    Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its level crossings
    decades ago. In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or underground
    rights of way.

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?
    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail network. It
    wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last examples
    of *manned* level crossing *gates*. I can still recall those in
    Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the much higher cost of grade
    separation. Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the
    suburban rail network, only another ~110 to go.

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines. Grade crossings on these will not cause the level of frustration that Melbourne's grade crossings have.



    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue
    to whether or not a project has merit.

    -aThat project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is
    can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    -aSo it is stupid, like I said

    -aThere is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 16:51:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 4:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with >>>>>>>>> Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the
    same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same
    time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of >>>>> time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that
    has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>> congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial >>>>> vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual, do you think that that is acceptable?
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do you
    think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times near
    the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to
    other big build projects it looks like good value.

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home
    due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between
    her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting
    rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels crossings, what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network
    way back when it was first done, most other places separated to two transport modes so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    Melbourne was flat, road transport was scarce and slow. You wanted fast
    travel back then, you traveled by train. Melbourne save on building
    costs back then, they pay for it now because they waited so long to do necessary upgrades. >

    Daryl
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 17:08:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 4:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>>> the-a-a majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so
    many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the
    same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period
    of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>> congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    -aBullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,

    Bullshit

    do you think that that is-a-a acceptable?

    Given the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet

    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km
    in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do
    you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?

    I don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.

    Bullshit

    I lived in one of the worst affected areas and I can tell you it was
    hell back then. A visit prior to Covid, 2019 to be precise, showed me
    that it had become immeasurably worse vehicular traffic wise. And that
    was after the worst level crossings were removed - Heatherdale Rd,
    Mitcham Rd, Rooks Rd, Springvale Rd, Blackburn Rd, Middleborough Rd.
    These were the ones I used, all gone now, and traffic has built up
    beyond all recognition. If the grade crossings were still there, it
    would be total chaos. I'm told by people who still live in the area that
    it's like peak hour all day long and at weekends as well. And I thought
    it couldn't get any worse.>
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD
    and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times
    near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the
    level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.

    Bullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is
    between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to
    other big build projects it looks like good value.

    Bullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that

    Ah, you aren't used to dealing with such numbers.>
    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    -aStill not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between >>>>>> her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting
    rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    -aIt makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels
    crossings,

    Bullshit it is

    According to AI, you're wrong

    AI Overview
    Melbourne has historically had an unusually high number of at-grade rail
    level crossings for a major developed cityrCOs urban rail system, with
    roughly 178 to 180 crossings prior to recent major state-funded
    elimination works. It holds the most by a wide margin in Australia,
    prompting the massive multi-billion-dollar Level Crossing Removal
    Project to eliminate 110 of them.

    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way back
    when it was first done,

    Bullshit, it worked fine and still does

    The rail network works fine, the road network, not so much. Remember,
    road traffic gives way to trains.>
    most other places separated to two-a-a transport modes

    More bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately? Care to count the grade level crossings?>
    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    They weren't stupid enough to do anything like that

    Well, the evidence points to them doing it and Melbourne waiting until critical mass was reached.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 17:18:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 4:43 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:22:53 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 3:14 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:09:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl
    <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in
    Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>>>>>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway?
    Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under the >>>>>>>>>> majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going
    through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started with Dan >>>>>>>> Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those
    crossings were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne
    in 1980. That was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less
    disruption and they could have been dealt with a few at a time,
    worst ones first. In fact they did start with one of the worst ones
    - the Box Hill/Station Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and
    made a huge difference to anyone using Station Street or the Box
    Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to
    Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times
    which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in
    1986 but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity
    such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway
    crossing in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road
    crossings since it was halfway between stations and delays were
    brief. Not so with Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to
    the major road crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping
    the crossings closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>> of them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    -aIt makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    You should tell that to the Thais.

    They are not doing anything like that with RAILWAY CROSSINGS

    No, they are instead closing those rail lines down and moving them out
    of town. The new Metro lines are above or undeground. So, doing it but differently. End result, grade crossings will eventually be gone.>
    Bangkok is being ringed by elevated roadways and railways, not to
    forget subways, to reduce or remove the accident risk.

    Nope, to do something about the utterly insane traffic jams

    Something Melburg never ever has

    Been to Melburg lately?>
    If you had ever been to Thailand, you would know the risks that have
    been entirely removed - like this;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/16/thailand-bangkok-rail-
    crossing-collision-freight-train-bus

    We aren't actually stupid enough to spend anything
    like what Melburg has done to avoid something like that

    It was done decades ago.>
    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    -aIt makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last
    week, difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but >>>>>> the I found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the
    suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the
    most expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the
    East West link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 18:48:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>> the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with >>>>>>>>> Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the same >>>>> time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other projects, >>>>> in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same
    time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of >>>>> time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial >>>>> vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    I have waited up to 20 minutes at Box Hill.

    That's not a very long time and doesn't happen that often
    and even if it did, still no reason to be spending anything
    even remotely like billions to avoid that happening

    That was why they did that one back as far as 1983-5.

    Doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense to be
    spending anything like billions to fix that, let alone
    all the other level crossings in Melburg

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    Grade crossing removal has been going on for 40 years and more.

    Yes, that stupidity has been going on for that long there

    Obviously it has been giving quite a few people the shits for quite a
    long time.

    Its actually the stupidity of what victorian govts get up to

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between
    her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting rid >>>>> of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    That's inflation, stupid, not a good reason to do it earlier

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Sydney does not have nearly as many level crossings as Melbourne.

    Pity about the other state capitals

    Melbourne had roughly 180 level crossings on its suburban network,

    Yes

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its level crossings decades ago.

    Bullshit

    In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or underground rights of way.

    Bullshit

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    There was no need to

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail network.

    More bulllshit

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last
    examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail
    network, only another ~110 to go.

    Because Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Grade crossings on these will not cause the level of frustration that Melbourne's grade crossings have.

    Bullshit

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue >>>>> to whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question is >>>>> can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 19:07:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:18:41 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:43 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:22:53 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 3:14 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:09:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 9:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:24:06 +1000, Daryl
    <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

    On 11/8/2026 8:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 06:59:41 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 19:38:42 +1000, Keithr0
    <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote:

    On 10/08/2026 11:20 am, lindsay wrote:
    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before Hope >>>>>>>>>>> Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC
    Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>>>>>>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.


    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>> the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with >>>>>>>>> Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up
    politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?
    Yep, insanely expensive

    Insanely expensive but that's because of the *delay*. Those
    crossings were causing huge issues when I first moved to Melbourne >>>>> in 1980. That was the optimum time, traffic would have had way less >>>>> disruption and they could have been dealt with a few at a time,
    worst ones first. In fact they did start with one of the worst ones >>>>> - the Box Hill/Station Street Xing. That was completed in 1985 and >>>>> made a huge difference to anyone using Station Street or the Box
    Hill shopping centre in general.

    The problem was created by the fact that the line from Camberwell to >>>>> Ringwood was extremely busy with many trains per hour at peak times >>>>> which, I might add, coincided with peak times for road traffic.

    Box Hill was already completed by the time I moved out that way in >>>>> 1986 but it showed what could be done and the improvement to amenity >>>>> such developments would make. I used to use the Rooks Road railway >>>>> crossing in preference to either Springvale Road or Mitcham road
    crossings since it was halfway between stations and delays were
    brief. Not so with Nunawading and Mitcham stations being so close to >>>>> the major road crossings - long delays with multiple trains keeping >>>>> the crossings closed for extended periods. Fond memories - not!>
    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>>> of them

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    You should tell that to the Thais.

    They are not doing anything like that with RAILWAY CROSSINGS

    No, they are instead closing those rail lines down and moving them out
    of town.

    Bullshit they are and Melburg is doing nothing like that

    The new Metro lines are above or undeground. So, doing it but
    differently. End result, grade crossings will eventually be gone.

    Irrelevant to what makes sense in Melburg

    Bangkok is being ringed by elevated roadways and railways, not to
    forget subways, to reduce or remove the accident risk.

    Nope, to do something about the utterly insane traffic jams

    Something Melburg never ever has

    Been to Melburg lately?

    Yep, nothing even remotely like Bangkok

    If you had ever been to Thailand, you would know the risks that have
    been entirely removed - like this;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/16/thailand-bangkok-rail-
    crossing-collision-freight-train-bus

    We aren't actually stupid enough to spend anything
    like what Melburg has done to avoid something like that

    It was done decades ago.

    Bullshit

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that has >>>>>>> the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic
    congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    It only gets more expensive over time. The optimum time was
    "yesterday".

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    I also used the new Metro rail tunnel for the first time last
    week, difficult to say if its worth the money (very likely is) but >>>>>>> the I found that the project itself was impressive.

    The Westgate tunnel is a very expensive white elephant as is the >>>>>>> suburban rail loop as is the North East link which AFAIK is the >>>>>>> most expensive project of all, at approx 5 times the cost of the >>>>>>> East West link that Andrews cancelled at great cost.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 19:18:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:08:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:


    On 11/8/2026 4:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>>>> the majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started >>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.>> >>>>>>>>>> That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other >>>>>>> projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period >>>>>>> of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>>> congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including >>>>>>> commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?>>
    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,
    Bullshit

    do you think that that is acceptable?
    Given the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet>>
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km >>> in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do >>> you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    I don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    Bullshit
    I lived in one of the worst affected areas and I can tell you it was > hell back then.
    You wouldn't know what real hell was if it bit you on your lard arse
    A visit prior to Covid, 2019 to be precise, showed me that it had become > immeasurably worse vehicular traffic wise.
    Bullshit
    And that was after the worst level crossings were removed - Heatherdale > Rd, Mitcham Rd, Rooks Rd, Springvale Rd, Blackburn Rd, Middleborough Rd. > These were the ones I used, all gone now, and traffic has built up > beyond all recognition.
    Bullshit
    If the grade crossings were still there, it would be total chaos.
    Bullshit
    I'm told by people who still live in the area that it's like peak hour > all day long and at weekends as well.
    Complete and utter bullshit
    And I thought it couldn't get any worse.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD >>> and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times >>> near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the >>> level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    Bullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is >>> between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to >>> other big build projects it looks like good value.
    Bullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that
    Ah, you aren't used to dealing with such numbers.
    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its >>>>> maximum in both directions at peak times.
    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on
    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between >>>>>>> her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting >>>>>>> rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>> track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels >>> crossings,
    Bullshit it is
    According to AI, you're wrong
    We'll see...
    AI Overview
    Melbourne has historically had an unusually high number of at-grade rail > level crossings for a major developed cityrCOs urban rail system, with > roughly 178 to 180 crossings prior to recent major state-funded > elimination works. It holds the most by a wide margin in Australia, > prompting the massive multi-billion-dollar Level Crossing Removal > Project to eliminate 110 of them.
    Oz isn't the WORLD, fool
    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way back >>> when it was first done,
    Bullshit, it worked fine and still does
    The rail network works fine, the road network, not so much.
    Bullshit on the last
    Remember, road traffic gives way to trains.
    Irrelevant to your stupid claim
    most other places separated to two transport modes
    More bullshit
    Been to Sydney lately?
    Yep
    Care to count the grade level crossings?
    Pity about the number of traffic lights
    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.
    They weren't stupid enough to do anything like that
    Well, the evidence points to them doing it
    Never happened
    and Melbourne waiting until critical mass was reached.
    There never was any critical mass, just terminal labor stupidity
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 19:23:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:51:11 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>>> the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started with >>>>>>>>>> Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so many >>>>>>> of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the
    same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period of >>>>>> time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>> congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including commercial >>>>>> vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit
    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual, do you think that that is
    acceptable?
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km
    in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do you
    think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD
    and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times
    near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the
    level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project is
    between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when compared to
    other big build projects it looks like good value.

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between >>>>>> her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting >>>>>> rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid
    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels
    crossings, what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network
    way back when it was first done, most other places separated to two
    transport modes so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    Melbourne was flat, road transport was scarce and slow.

    Bullshit on that last

    You wanted fast travel back then, you traveled by train.

    More of your mindless bullshit

    Melbourne save on building costs back then,

    No one else was stupid enough to separate road and rail

    they pay for it now because they waited so long to do necessary upgrades.

    You lot pay for that now because you were stupid enough vote labor
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 20:02:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 6:48 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>>> the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every
    electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so
    many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the
    same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period
    of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>> congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    -aBullshit

    I have waited up to 20 minutes at Box Hill.

    That's not a very long time and doesn't happen that often

    It is a very long time stuck in traffic that isn't even incing forward.

    and even if it did, still no reason to be spending anything
    even remotely like billions to avoid that happening

    That was why they did that-a-a one back as far as 1983-5.

    Doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense to be
    spending anything like billions to fix that, let alone
    all the other level crossings in Melburg

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its
    maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    Grade crossing removal has been going on for 40 years and more.

    Yes, that stupidity has been going on for that long there

    Obviously it has been giving quite a few people the shits for quite a
    long time.

    Its actually the stupidity of what victorian govts get up to

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she
    finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between >>>>>> her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting
    rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    That's inflation, stupid, not a good reason to do it earlier

    You do it before the need becomes pressing, not after.>
    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Sydney does not have nearly as many level crossings as Melbourne.

    Pity about the other state capitals

    Melbourne had roughly 180 level crossings on its suburban network,

    Yes

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's hilly
    terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and rail using
    cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne. Nothing mangled about it.>
    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its level
    crossings decades ago.

    Bullshit

    In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or underground
    rights of way.

    Bullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.>
    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, problems
    existed at *every grade crossing*.>
    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier
    and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail network.

    More bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.>
    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last
    examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on Union
    Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with automated boom
    gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught at. That and the one
    on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little further down. Those streets
    were my rat run through that part of town. >
    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the
    much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in Brighton
    were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail
    network, only another ~110 to go.

    Because Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Grade crossings on these will not cause the level of frustration that
    Melbourne's grade crossings have.

    Bullshit

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts,
    possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue >>>>>> to whether or not a project has merit.

    -aThat project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question
    is can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    -aSo it is stupid, like I said

    -aThere is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 20:09:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 7:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:08:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of
    Melbourne- bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the-a-a majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway
    crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other >>>>>>>> projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the
    same time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger >>>>>>>> period of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe
    traffic congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    -aBullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,
    -aBullshit

    do you think that that is-a-a acceptable?
    -aGiven the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet

    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel
    3km in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing,
    do you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    -aI don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.

    -aBullshit

    I lived in one of the worst affected areas and I can tell you it was
    hell back then.

    You wouldn't know what real hell was if it bit you on your lard arse

    A visit prior to Covid, 2019 to be precise, showed me that it had
    become immeasurably worse vehicular traffic wise.

    Bullshit

    And that was after the worst level crossings were removed -
    Heatherdale Rd, Mitcham Rd, Rooks Rd, Springvale Rd, Blackburn Rd,
    Middleborough Rd. These were the ones I used, all gone now, and
    traffic has built up beyond all recognition.

    Bullshit

    If the grade crossings were still there, it-a-a would be total chaos.

    Bullshit

    I'm told by people who still live in the area that it's like peak hour
    all day long and at weekends as well.

    Complete and utter bullshit

    Well, my experience along Middleborough Rd in 2019 certainly felt like
    it. I was driving along it around 6pm on a Saturday and it felt like
    peak hour during the weekday.>
    And I thought-a-a it couldn't get any worse.

    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD
    and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak
    times near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone
    since the level crossing was removed so well worth the money in
    saved time.
    -aBullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project
    is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when
    compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    -aBullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that

    Ah, you aren't used to dealing with such numbers.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at
    its maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get >>>>>>>> home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing >>>>>>>> between her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth >>>>>>>> getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>>> track.

    -aIt makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels
    crossings,

    -aBullshit it is

    According to AI, you're wrong

    We'll see...

    AI Overview
    Melbourne has historically had an unusually high number of at-grade
    rail level crossings for a major developed cityrCOs urban rail system,
    with roughly 178 to 180 crossings prior to recent major state-funded
    elimination works. It holds the most by a wide margin in Australia,
    prompting the massive multi-billion-dollar Level Crossing Removal
    Project to eliminate 110 of them.

    Oz isn't the WORLD, fool

    I didn't realise we were including the rest of the world. Hint, the
    focus is on Melbourne.>
    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way back
    when it was first done,

    -aBullshit, it worked fine and still does

    The rail network works fine, the road network, not so much.

    Bullshit on the last

    Remember,-a-a road traffic gives way to trains.

    Irrelevant to your stupid claim

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency is increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.>
    most other places separated to two transport modes

    -aMore bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?

    Yep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    Pity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade crossings.
    Try to keep on point.>
    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    -aThey weren't stupid enough to do anything like that

    Well, the evidence points to them doing it

    Never happened

    and Melbourne waiting until critical mass was reached.

    There never was any critical mass, just terminal labor stupidity
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Aug 11 20:12:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 11/8/2026 7:23 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:51:11 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>> under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway
    crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period >>>>>>> of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>>> congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit
    -aDelays of up to 20mins would not be unusual, do you think that that
    is acceptable?
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km
    in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do
    you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD
    and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times
    near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the
    level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project
    is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when
    compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its >>>>> maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get
    home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing
    between her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth >>>>>>> getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the
    track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid
    -aMelbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels
    crossings, what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network
    way back when it was first done, most other places separated to two
    transport modes so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    Melbourne was flat, road transport was scarce and slow.

    Bullshit on that last

    You wanted fast-a-a travel back then, you traveled by train.

    More of your mindless bullshit

    Melbourne save on building-a-a costs back then,

    No one else was stupid enough to separate road and rail

    they pay for it now because they waited so long to do necessary upgrades.

    You lot pay for that now because you were stupid enough vote labor

    I'm not paying for it. I have been a NSW resident for 14 years now.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 02:53:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:02:44 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 6:48 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to large >>>>>>>>>>>>> potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result.

    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered under >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started >>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway crossings >>>>>>>>>>> (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other
    projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period >>>>>>> of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>>> congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    I have waited up to 20 minutes at Box Hill.
    That's not a very long time and doesn't happen that often

    It is a very long time stuck in traffic that isn't even incing forward.

    and even if it did, still no reason to be spending anything
    even remotely like billions to avoid that happening

    That was why they did that one back as far as 1983-5.
    Doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense to be
    spending anything like billions to fix that, let alone
    all the other level crossings in Melburg

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its >>>>> maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    Grade crossing removal has been going on for 40 years and more.
    Yes, that stupidity has been going on for that long there

    Obviously it has been giving quite a few people the shits for quite a
    long time.
    Its actually the stupidity of what victorian govts get up to

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get home >>>>>>> due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing between >>>>>>> her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth getting >>>>>>> rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>> track.

    That's inflation, stupid, not a good reason to do it earlier

    You do it before the need becomes pressing, not after.

    Irrelevant to your ignorant claim that doing it like that saves money

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Sydney does not have nearly as many level crossings as Melbourne.
    Pity about the other state capitals

    Melbourne had roughly 180 level crossings on its suburban network,
    Yes

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Makes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's hilly
    terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and rail using
    cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    Nothing mangled about it.

    Everything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its level
    crossings decades ago.
    Bullshit
    In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or underground
    rights of way.

    Bullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    Again, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, problems
    existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier
    and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail network.

    More bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    Bullshit

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last
    examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on Union
    Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught at. That and the one
    on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little further down. Those streets
    were my rat run through that part of town.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the
    much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in Brighton
    were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail
    network, only another ~110 to go.
    Because Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Just govt spin

    Grade crossings on these will not cause the level of frustration that
    Melbourne's grade crossings have.

    Bullshit

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts, >>>>>>> possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate issue >>>>>>> to whether or not a project has merit.

    That project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question >>>>>>> is can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    So it is stupid, like I said

    There is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 02:59:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:09:39 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:


    On 11/8/2026 7:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:08:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne- bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started >>>>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kennett.

    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway >>>>>>>>>>>>> crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other >>>>>>>>> projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the >>>>>>>>> same time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger >>>>>>>>> period of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe >>>>>>>>>>> traffic congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including >>>>>>>>> commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,
    Bullshit

    do you think that that is acceptable?
    Given the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet

    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel >>>>> 3km in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, >>>>> do you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    I don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.

    Bullshit

    I lived in one of the worst affected areas and I can tell you it was >>> hell back then.
    You wouldn't know what real hell was if it bit you on your lard arse>>
    A visit prior to Covid, 2019 to be precise, showed me that it had >>> become immeasurably worse vehicular traffic wise.
    Bullshit

    And that was after the worst level crossings were removed - >>> Heatherdale Rd, Mitcham Rd, Rooks Rd, Springvale Rd, Blackburn Rd, >>> Middleborough Rd. These were the ones I used, all gone now, and >>> traffic has built up beyond all recognition.
    Bullshit

    If the grade crossings were still there, it would be total chaos.
    Bullshit

    I'm told by people who still live in the area that it's like peak hour >>> all day long and at weekends as well.
    Complete and utter bullshit
    Well, my experience along Middleborough Rd in 2019 certainly felt like > it. I was driving along it around 6pm on a Saturday and it felt like > peak hour during the weekday.
    Just because you have hangups...
    And I thought it couldn't get any worse.

    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD >>>>> and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak >>>>> times near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone >>>>> since the level crossing was removed so well worth the money in >>>>> saved time.
    Bullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project >>>>> is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when >>>>> compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    Bullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that

    Ah, you aren't used to dealing with such numbers.
    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at >>>>>>> its maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get >>>>>>>>> home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing >>>>>>>>> between her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth >>>>>>>>> getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>>>> track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid>>>>>> cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels >>>>> crossings,

    Bullshit it is

    According to AI, you're wrong
    We'll see...

    AI Overview
    Melbourne has historically had an unusually high number of at-grade >>> rail level crossings for a major developed cityrCOs urban rail system, >>> with roughly 178 to 180 crossings prior to recent major state-funded >>> elimination works. It holds the most by a wide margin in Australia, >>> prompting the massive multi-billion-dollar Level Crossing Removal >>> Project to eliminate 110 of them.
    Oz isn't the WORLD, fool
    I didn't realise we were including the rest of the world. Hint, the > focus is on Melbourne.
    YOU made that stupid comment about the world
    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way back >>>>> when it was first done,

    Bullshit, it worked fine and still does

    The rail network works fine, the road network, not so much.
    Bullshit on the last

    Remember, road traffic gives way to trains.
    Irrelevant to your stupid claim
    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency is > increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.
    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times
    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done
    most other places separated to two transport modes

    More bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?
    Yep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?
    Pity about the number of traffic lights
    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade crossings.
    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them
    Try to keep on point.
    Get stuffed, again
    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    They weren't stupid enough to do anything like that

    Well, the evidence points to them doing it
    Never happened

    and Melbourne waiting until critical mass was reached.
    There never was any critical mass, just terminal labor stupidity
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 03:00:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:12:06 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 7:23 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 16:51:11 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 11/8/2026 3:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    From ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of Melbourne- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing. The rot started >>>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    Bullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett. >>>>>
    More mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway >>>>>>>>>>>> crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    That stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    Yep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    And it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other >>>>>>>> projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    Any govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the same >>>>>>>> time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger period >>>>>>>> of time.

    Makes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe traffic >>>>>>>>>> congestion.

    Pity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    Its never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    Bullshit
    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual, do you think that that >>>> is acceptable?
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel 3km >>>> in peak period including negotiating a congested level crossing, do
    you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to travel 3km?
    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.
    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the CBD >>>> and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at peak times >>>> near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly gone since the >>>> level crossing was removed so well worth the money in saved time.
    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal project
    is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but when
    compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at its >>>>>> maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get >>>>>>>> home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing >>>>>>>> between her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth >>>>>>>> getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    Not when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>>> track.

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid
    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many levels >>>> crossings, what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network >>>> way back when it was first done, most other places separated to two
    transport modes so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    Melbourne was flat, road transport was scarce and slow.
    Bullshit on that last

    You wanted fast travel back then, you traveled by train.
    More of your mindless bullshit

    Melbourne save on building costs back then,
    No one else was stupid enough to separate road and rail

    they pay for it now because they waited so long to do necessary
    upgrades.
    You lot pay for that now because you were stupid enough vote labor

    I'm not paying for it. I have been a NSW resident for 14 years now.

    You have always been completely irrelevant
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 07:51:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 2:59 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:09:39 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 7:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:08:28 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
    wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 4:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> princes- freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne- bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the-a-a majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kennett.

    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway >>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before. >>>>>
    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at >>>>>>>>>> the same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on >>>>>>>>>> other projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and >>>>>>>>> whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the >>>>>>>>>> same time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger >>>>>>>>>> period of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project >>>>>>>>>>>> that has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe >>>>>>>>>>>> traffic congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time? >>>>>
    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    -aBullshit

    Delays of up to 20mins would not be unusual,
    -aBullshit

    do you think that that is-a-a acceptable?
    -aGiven the cost of doing anything about that particular crossing, yet >>>>>
    I gave an example of how long it took a former employee to travel >>>>>> 3km in peak period including negotiating a congested level
    crossing, do you think that its acceptable to take 30-40mins to
    travel 3km?
    -aI don't believe that number

    That was more than 6yrs ago, its gotten ever worse since then.

    -aBullshit

    I lived in one of the worst affected areas and I can tell you it was
    hell back then.
    -aYou wouldn't know what real hell was if it bit you on your lard arse

    A visit prior to Covid, 2019 to be precise, showed me that it had
    become immeasurably worse vehicular traffic wise.
    -aBullshit

    And that was after the worst level crossings were removed -
    Heatherdale Rd, Mitcham Rd, Rooks Rd, Springvale Rd, Blackburn Rd,
    Middleborough Rd. These were the ones I used, all gone now, and
    traffic has built up beyond all recognition.
    -aBullshit

    If the grade crossings were still there, it-a-a would be total chaos.
    -aBullshit

    I'm told by people who still live in the area that it's like peak
    hour all day long and at weekends as well.

    -aComplete and utter bullshit

    Well, my experience along Middleborough Rd in 2019 certainly felt like
    it. I was driving along it around 6pm on a Saturday and it felt like
    peak hour during the weekday.

    Just because you have hangups...

    And I thought-a-a it couldn't get any worse.

    In the late 1970's I lived in Murrumbeena, my wife worked in the
    CBD and traveled there by train, even back then the traffic at
    peak times near the station was chaos, that chaos has now mostly
    gone since the level crossing was removed so well worth the money >>>>>> in saved time.
    -aBullshit

    According to Google the cost so far of the crossing removal
    project is between 15 and 18 billion, certainly a big number but
    when compared to other big build projects it looks like good value.

    -aBullshit it does. That's an insane amount of money to spend on that

    Ah, you aren't used to dealing with such numbers.
    -aBeen doing that since before you were even born thanks

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at >>>>>>>> its maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when >>>>>>>>>> she finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to >>>>>>>>>> get home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level >>>>>>>>>> crossing between her workplace and home, do you think that it >>>>>>>>>> isn't worth getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down >>>>>>>> the track.

    -aIt makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid >>>>>>> cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Melbourne is one of the few places in the world with so many
    levels crossings,

    -aBullshit it is

    According to AI, you're wrong
    -aWe'll see...

    AI Overview
    Melbourne has historically had an unusually high number of at-grade
    rail level crossings for a major developed cityrCOs urban rail system, >>>> with roughly 178 to 180 crossings prior to recent major state-funded
    elimination works. It holds the most by a wide margin in Australia,
    prompting the massive multi-billion-dollar Level Crossing Removal
    Project to eliminate 110 of them.

    -aOz isn't the WORLD, fool

    I didn't realise we were including the rest of the world. Hint, the
    focus is on Melbourne.

    YOU made that stupid comment about the world

    what is stupid is the poor design of the road/rail network way
    back when it was first done,

    -aBullshit, it worked fine and still does

    The rail network works fine, the road network, not so much.
    -aBullshit on the last

    Remember,-a-a road traffic gives way to trains.

    -aIrrelevant to your stupid claim

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency is
    increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.

    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times

    I beg to differ.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox

    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five minutes at
    peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite direction. The line
    was double tracked through there.
    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines were
    triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one or the
    other was on my route to/from work.>
    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done

    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.>
    most other places separated to two transport modes

    -aMore bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?
    -aYep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    -aPity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade crossings.

    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them

    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow. Melb. did
    that, Sydney should be able to do the same. However train crossing
    lights cannot since they respond to train timetables.>
    Try to keep on point.

    Get stuffed, again

    Thanks for the win Rod, quite generous of you.>
    so they didn't need to fix it later at great cost.

    -aThey weren't stupid enough to do anything like that

    Well, the evidence points to them doing it
    -aNever happened

    and Melbourne waiting until critical mass was reached.
    -aThere never was any critical mass, just terminal labor stupidity
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 08:01:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 2:53 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:02:44 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:



    On 11/8/2026 6:48 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> wrote
    lindsay wrote

    -aFrom ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-10/princes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeway-
    pothole-damage-bunyip-drivers-damaged-cars/107016002

    Up to 30 vehicles have been forced off the road due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> large potholes
    that have opened along the Princes Freeway at Bunyip in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victoria's east.

    The Victorian transport department has warned of
    Melbourne- bound delays
    on the freeway as a result of the road damage just before >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope Street.

    Garry, who was driving through the area, has told ABC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melbourne it was
    carnage, with more than two dozen cars damaged as a result. >>>>>
    "For about 15 kilometres thereafter, cars were pulled over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with damaged
    rims," he said.

    Who's responsibility is it for maintenance of a Freeway? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federal or State?

    And is this sort of damage (tyres and or rims) covered >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under the
    majority of comprehensive insurance?

    I wonder how long it'll take to get repaired? I'm going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through there on
    Thursday... Waze will go off it's nut!

    It even made the news up here in QLD.

    To where many Vic industries are fleeing.-a The rot started >>>>>>>>>>>> with Dan
    Andrews

    -aBullshit, plenty were doing that long before he showed up >>>>>>>>>>> politically

    who was criminally insane, much like his predecessors Kennett. >>>>>
    -aMore mindless bullshit on both counts

    The former spent $quillions in covering over railway
    crossings (still
    ongoing) in an example of pork barelling rarely seen before.

    -aThat stupidity has nothing to do with pork barelling

    Removing rail crossing is stupidity?

    -aYep, insanely expensive

    Agree its not pork barrelling since its being done in every >>>>>>>>>> electorate in greater Melb.

    -aAnd it is completely stupid to do anything like that with so >>>>>>>>> many of them

    Yes and no, it would be okay to spend that much money if at the >>>>>>>> same time they weren't also spending massive amounts on other >>>>>>>> projects, in other words it would be affordable.

    -aAny govt expenditure of that sort of money has to decide
    if that is the best thing to spend that sort of money on and
    whether spending that sort of money warrants new taxs
    like the land tax and that project doesn't on either count

    Its actually cheaper to do multiple crossing removals at the
    same time than to randomly do them one at a time over a larger >>>>>>>> period of time.

    -aMakes a lot more sense to not do that sort of thing at all

    IMHO removal of level crossing is the "big build" project that >>>>>>>>>> has the most merit, it removes many instances of severe
    traffic congestion.

    -aPity about the insane cost of that

    How much does it cost to have lots of vehicles including
    commercial vehicles sitting idle in long queues for a long time?

    -aIts never a long time and you get that at any traffic lights

    In an urban environment it can be a very long time.

    -aBullshit

    I have waited up to 20 minutes at Box Hill.
    -aThat's not a very long time and doesn't happen that often

    It is a very long time stuck in traffic that isn't even incing forward.

    and even if it did, still no reason to be spending anything
    even remotely like billions to avoid that happening

    That was why they did that-a-a one back as far as 1983-5.
    -aDoesn't change the fact that it makes no sense to be
    spending anything like billions to fix that, let alone
    all the other level crossings in Melburg

    The line I lived on was double tracked and train density was at
    its maximum in both directions at peak times.

    Still not a very long time and it makes no sense
    to be doing all railway crossings even if one or
    two are like that one you lived on

    Grade crossing removal has been going on for 40 years and more.
    -aYes, that stupidity has been going on for that long there

    Obviously it has been giving quite a few people the shits for quite
    a long time.
    -aIts actually the stupidity of what victorian govts get up to

    A former employee lived approx 3 km from her workplace, when she >>>>>>>> finished work at about 6pm it could take her 30-40mins to get >>>>>>>> home due to crazy peak period congestion at the level crossing >>>>>>>> between her workplace and home, do you think that it isn't worth >>>>>>>> getting rid of that traffic congestion?

    -aNot when it costs that absolutely insane amount of money

    It costs a lot more when it becomes an absolute necessity down the >>>>>> track.

    -aThat's inflation, stupid, not a good reason to do it earlier

    You do it before the need becomes pressing, not after.

    Irrelevant to your ignorant claim that doing it like that saves money

    It makes no sense to do any of them at any time given the stupid
    cost and that's why no one else is doing anything that stupid

    Sydney does not have nearly as many level crossings as Melbourne.
    -aPity about the other state capitals

    Melbourne had roughly 180 level crossings on its suburban network,
    -aYes

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Makes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then. That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct
    you to StreetView. How good is that.>
    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's
    hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and rail
    using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    -aThat mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.>
    Nothing mangled about it.

    Everything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its
    level crossings decades ago.
    -aBullshit
    -aIn fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or
    underground rights of way.

    -aBullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    Again, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    -aThere was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in certain
    locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, problems
    existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod? You live in extreme regional NSW.>
    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier
    and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail network.

    -aMore bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    Bullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor
    vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million. By
    the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million, reflecting massive population and ownership growth.

    1950s Motoring Statistics
    Total Fleet: About 2.18 million vehicles (including trucks, buses, and motorcycles) in 1955.
    Ownership Rate: Roughly one car for every 10 Australians, or about 24%
    of the population owning a vehicle.
    Market Context: Dominated by early locally-made models like the Holden
    48-215 (FX) and FJ, alongside imports from Britain and Europe.

    2020s Motoring Statistics
    Total Fleet: Reached 19.8 million vehicles in January 2020 and climbed
    past 20.1 million by January 2021.
    Ownership Rate: Approximately 76 vehicles for every 100 Australians,
    with multi-car households becoming standard.
    Market Context: Highly diversified fleet heavily featuring SUVs and
    light commercial vehicles, with Toyota leading passenger vehicle registrations.



    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last
    examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    -aBullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway level
    crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on Union
    Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with automated boom
    gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught at. That and the
    one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little further down. Those
    streets were my rat run through that part of town.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.>
    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the
    much higher cost of grade separation.

    -aBullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in Brighton
    were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in. Didn't
    have to wait until boom gates were opened one by one by the gatekeeper.>
    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail
    network, only another ~110 to go.
    -aBecause Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Just govt spin

    Govt facts.>
    Grade crossings on these will not cause the level of frustration
    that Melbourne's grade crossings have.

    -aBullshit

    The cost of doing anything and especially Govt projects is nuts, >>>>>>>> possibly due to union/Govt corruption but that is a separate
    issue to whether or not a project has merit.

    -aThat project has no merit given the insane cost of it

    All of the "Big Build" projects have some merit but the question >>>>>>>> is can Vic afford them and the answer to that is absolutely not.

    -aSo it is stupid, like I said

    -aThere is a reason no one else is that stupid
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 08:18:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency is
    increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.

    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times

    I beg to differ.

    Down on your knees, boy

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox

    That's not PEAK TIMES

    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five minutes at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite direction. The line
    was double tracked through there.

    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines were triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one or the other was on my route to/from work.

    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done

    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.

    Nothing to do with the signalling system,
    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times

    most other places separated to two transport modes

    More bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?

    Yep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    Pity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade
    crossings.

    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them

    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.

    Bullshit with sydney

    Melb. did that, Sydney should be able to do the same.

    Nope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor

    However train crossing lights cannot since they respond to train timetables.

    The timetables are the result of the limitation of train lines

    Try to keep on point.

    Get stuffed, again

    Thanks for the win Rod, quite generous of you.

    Just another of your pathetic little childish fantasys
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 08:35:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Makes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    I'm not going anywhere

    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    Which says nothing like your claim

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's
    hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and rail >>>>> using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Nothing mangled about it.

    Everything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its
    level crossings decades ago.

    Bullshit

    In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or
    underground rights of way.

    Bullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    Again, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in certain
    locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, problems
    existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much easier >>>>> and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the rail
    network.

    More bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    Bullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    And you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million. By
    the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million, reflecting massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last >>>>> examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway level >>> crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on Union
    Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with automated boom
    gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught at. That and the
    one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little further down. Those
    streets were my rat run through that part of town.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    There you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    Relos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the >>>>> much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in Brighton
    were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    Bullshit

    Didn't have to wait until boom gates were opened one by one by the gatekeeper.

    Fuck all compared with the time that they didn't let traffic thru

    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail >>>>> network, only another ~110 to go.

    Because Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Just govt spin

    Govt facts.

    Bullshit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 10:39:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 8:18 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency
    is increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.

    -aThe train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times

    I beg to differ.

    Down on your knees, boy

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/
    melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox

    That's not PEAK TIMES

    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes. The chart shows the
    entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from 4am through to train
    finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule. Since it is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show PEAK TIMES.



    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five minutes
    at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite direction. The
    line was double tracked through there.

    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines were
    triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one or the
    other was on my route to/from work.

    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done

    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban
    lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.

    Nothing to do with the signalling system,

    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major physical constraint on train frequency and network capacity across MelbournerCOs metropolitan rail network, particularly in core bottlenecks like the
    City Loop and inner-city corridors.

    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity-signalling-melbourne

    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times

    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple tracked.
    The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on the outer pair
    of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner pair of lines so
    they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did not interfere with
    local trains so your point is bullshit.>
    most other places separated to two transport modes

    -aMore bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?

    -aYep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    -aPity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade
    crossings.

    -aThey are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them

    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.

    Bullshit with sydney

    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.

    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real time
    to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New South Wales
    are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive Traffic System), an intelligent platform developed in Sydney that continuously measures
    vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian demand via road sensors
    to optimize green times and cycle lengths.

    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in the pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and cycle times
    on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to coordinate
    "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move smoothly
    through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS Priority Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses, trams, or
    emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates infrastructure
    through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic Light Program to trial
    new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and safer turning phases.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System

    https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport-technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/transport-2

    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.


    Melb. did-a-a that, Sydney should be able to do the same.

    Nope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor

    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management
    system.>
    However train crossing-a-a lights cannot since they respond to train
    timetables.

    The timetables are the result of the limitation of train lines

    And train signalling. Won't get an argument from me on that score.>
    Try to keep on point.

    -aGet stuffed, again

    Thanks for the win Rod, quite generous of you.

    Just another of your pathetic little childish fantasys
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 10:55:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 8:35 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    -aMakes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    I'm not going anywhere

    More's the pity.>
    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    Which says nothing like your claim

    That link, used properly, shows every grade crossing in NSW. >
    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's
    hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and
    rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    -aThat mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    -aBullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.>
    Nothing mangled about it.

    -aEverything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its
    level crossings decades ago.

    -aBullshit

    -aIn fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or
    underground rights of way.

    -aBullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    -aAgain, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the railways?

    -aThere was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in
    certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common,
    problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    -aBullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!>
    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much
    easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the
    rail network.

    -aMore bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    -aBullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    And you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor
    vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million. By
    the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics,
    total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million, reflecting
    massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    Most do, and on a daily basis.>
    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last >>>>>> examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    -aBullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway
    level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on
    Union Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with
    automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught
    at. That and the one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little
    further down. Those streets were my rat run through that part of town.

    -aMakes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    There you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    Relos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the >>>>>> much higher cost of grade separation.

    -aBullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in
    Brighton were closed permanently circa 2010.

    -aMakes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    Bullshit

    Why would they have spent the money otherwise?>
    Didn't-a-a have to wait until boom gates were opened one by one by the
    gatekeeper.

    Fuck all compared with the time that they didn't let traffic thru

    Thus far 87 grade crossings have been removed on the suburban rail >>>>>> network, only another ~110 to go.

    -aBecause Labor is that stupid

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or
    industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    -aJust govt spin

    Govt facts.

    Bullshit
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 12:35:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency >>>>> is increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.
    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times
    I beg to differ.
    Down on your knees, boy
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/ >>> melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox
    That's not PEAK TIMES
    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes.
    No need and my eyes aint rheumy
    The chart shows the entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from 4am > through to train finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule. Since it > is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show PEAK TIMES.
    But doesn't show that the number of trains has increased in
    peak times because that isn't possible given how trains work
    The most that can happen is longer trains with more carraiges
    and that has no significant effect on how long a level crossing
    is closed to car and truck traffic
    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five minutes >>> at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite direction. The >>> line was double tracked through there.
    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines were >>> triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one or the >>> other was on my route to/from work.
    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done
    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban >>> lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.
    Nothing to do with the signalling system,
    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major physical > constraint on train frequency and network capacity across MelbournerCOs > metropolitan rail network, particularly in core bottlenecks like the > City Loop and inner-city corridors.
    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity-signalling-melbourne
    And fixing that would have been a fucking sight
    cheaper than replacing all level crossings
    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times
    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple tracked. > The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on the outer pair > of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner pair of lines so > they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did not interfere with > local trains so your point is bullshit.
    You don't see express trains used to carry the peak time pax
    That's used for country traffic
    most other places separated to two transport modes
    More bullshit
    Been to Sydney lately?
    Yep
    Care to count the grade level crossings?
    Pity about the number of traffic lights
    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade >>>>> crossings.
    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them
    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.
    Bullshit with sydney
    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.
    You are wrong, as always
    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real time > to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New South Wales > are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive Traffic System), an > intelligent platform developed in Sydney that continuously measures > vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian demand via road sensors > to optimize green times and cycle lengths.
    And the reality is that because of the way roads are done in sydney
    its just not possible to give just one road traffic lights that sees none
    of the traffic on that road having to never stop for a traffic light
    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo
    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in the > pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and cycle times > on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to coordinate > "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move smoothly > through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS Priority > Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses, trams, or > emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates infrastructure > through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic Light Program to trial > new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and safer turning phases.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport-technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/transport-2
    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.
    Then you need new glasses or your first glasses
    Melb. did that, Sydney should be able to do the same.
    Nope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor
    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management > system.
    That does not see the traffic on any particular
    road never have to stop at a traffic light
    However train crossing lights cannot since they respond to train >>> timetables.
    The timetables are the result of the limitation of train lines
    And train signalling. Won't get an argument from me on that score.>
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 12:43:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or >>>>>>> industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Makes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    I'm not going anywhere

    More's the pity.

    More's the shitty in your case

    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    Which says nothing like your claim

    That link, used properly, shows every grade crossing in NSW.

    And says nothing like your original stupid ignorant claim

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's >>>>>>> hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and >>>>>>> rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Nothing mangled about it.

    Everything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its >>>>>>> level crossings decades ago.

    Bullshit

    In fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or
    underground rights of way.

    Bullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    Again, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the
    railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in
    certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common,
    problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    I haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much
    easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the >>>>>>> rail network.

    More bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    Bullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    And you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor
    vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million. By
    the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics,
    total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million, reflecting
    massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    Most do, and on a daily basis.

    Bullshit given more than one car per household

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the last >>>>>>> examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway
    level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station on >>>>> Union Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with
    automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught
    at. That and the one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little
    further down. Those streets were my rat run through that part of
    town.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    There you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    Relos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying the >>>>>>> much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in
    Brighton were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    Bullshit

    Why would they have spent the money otherwise?

    So they didn't have to pay the wages of the fella
    who opened and closed the gates, fuckwit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:14:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 12:35 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency >>>>>> is increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.

    -aThe train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times

    I beg to differ.

    -aDown on your knees, boy

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/
    melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox

    -aThat's not PEAK TIMES

    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes.

    No need and my eyes aint rheumy

    The chart shows the entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from 4am
    through to train finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule.-a Since
    it is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show PEAK
    TIMES.

    But doesn't show that the number of trains has increased in
    peak times because that isn't possible given how trains work

    The more efficient the signalling, the tighter the block systems can be.>
    The most that can happen is longer trains with more carraiges

    They did that too.

    and that has no significant effect on how long a level crossing
    is closed to car and truck traffic

    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five
    minutes at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite
    direction. The line was double tracked through there.

    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines
    were triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one
    or the other was on my route to/from work.

    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done

    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban
    lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.
    -aNothing to do with the signalling system,

    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major physical
    constraint on train frequency and network capacity across MelbournerCOs
    metropolitan rail network, particularly in core bottlenecks like the
    City Loop and inner-city corridors.

    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity-
    signalling-melbourne

    And fixing that would have been a fucking sight
    cheaper than replacing all level crossings

    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times

    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple tracked.
    The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on the outer
    pair of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner pair of lines
    so they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did not interfere
    with local trains so your point is bullshit.

    You don't see express trains used to carry the peak time pax

    That's used for country traffic

    Have I got news for you!

    AI Overview

    Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains Melbourne
    operate primarily during weekday peak directions on lines like the
    Frankston, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Glen Waverley, and Sunbury
    routes. Unlike networks with permanent multi-track express layouts, Melbourne's tracks mostly mix all-stops and peak express trains via
    periodic overtaking or designated sequential non-stop runs.

    Key Characteristics of Express Operations

    Peak Direction Focus: Most express and limited-stop patterns run inbound toward the CBD in the morning and outbound in the evening.

    Line-Specific Patterns:
    Werribee Line: Routinely operates express sections from Laverton through
    to North Melbourne on weekdays.
    Lilydale & Belgrave Lines: Utilize a shared third-track section as far
    as Box Hill to allow peak express runs to pass local all-stops services. Hurstbridge & Frankston: Feature targeted peak express or limited-stop
    jumps past congested inner-suburban bottlenecks.

    Time Savings: Commute time reductions can vary, as some express and
    adjacent all-stops services are tightly scheduled with comparable
    overall end-to-end run times

    most other places separated to two transport modes

    -aMore bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?

    -aYep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    -aPity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade
    crossings.

    -aThey are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them

    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.

    -aBullshit with sydney

    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.

    You are wrong, as always

    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real time >> to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New South
    Wales are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive Traffic
    System), an intelligent platform developed in Sydney that continuously
    measures vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian demand via
    road sensors to optimize green times and cycle lengths.

    And the reality is that because of the way roads are done in sydney
    its just not possible to give just one road traffic lights that sees none
    of the traffic on that road having to never stop for a traffic light

    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in the
    pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and cycle
    times on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to coordinate
    "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move smoothly
    through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS
    Priority Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses,
    trams, or emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates infrastructure
    through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic Light Program to
    trial new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and safer turning phases.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System

    https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport-
    technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/transport-2

    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.

    Then you need new glasses or your first glasses

    Melb. did-a-a that, Sydney should be able to do the same.

    -aNope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor

    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management
    system.

    That does not see the traffic on any particular
    road never have to stop at a traffic light

    Never said it did. What it does do is smooth out the traffic flow.>
    However train crossing-a-a lights cannot since they respond to train
    timetables.

    The timetables are the result of the limitation of train lines

    And train signalling. Won't get an argument from me on that score.>
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:20:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 12:43 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or >>>>>>>> industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    -aMakes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    -aI'm not going anywhere

    More's the pity.

    More's the shitty in your case

    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    -aWhich says nothing like your claim

    That link, used properly, shows every grade crossing in NSW.

    And says nothing like your original stupid ignorant claim

    Rheumy eyes, get them seen to.>
    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's >>>>>>>> hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and >>>>>>>> rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    -aThat mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade
    crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    -aBullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    -aIt says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Prove it.>
    Nothing mangled about it.

    -aEverything mangled about that claim of yours

    What's more, Sydney systematically eliminated nearly all of its >>>>>>>> level crossings decades ago.

    -aBullshit

    -aIn fact, most of Sydney's suburban rail network was
    originally planned and built with dedicated, elevated, or
    underground rights of way.

    -aBullshit

    Again, argue that point with the NSW government.

    -aAgain, even you should be able to work out what is govt spin

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the
    railways?

    -aThere was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in
    certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common,
    problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    -aBullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    -aI lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    I haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    Things have changed in the past 100 years Rod.>
    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much
    easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the >>>>>>>> rail network.

    -aMore bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    -aBullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    -aAnd you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor
    vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million.
    By the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of
    Statistics, total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million,
    reflecting massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    Most do, and on a daily basis.

    Bullshit given more than one car per household

    And, during the day, all the cars are out, even the wife's hack -
    shopping, school drop offs and pickups, socialising. Oh, I forgot, it's
    been nigh on a century since you did that sort of thing>
    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the >>>>>>>> last examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    -aBullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway
    level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station
    on Union Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with
    automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught >>>>>> at. That and the one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little
    further down. Those streets were my rat run through that part of
    town.

    -aMakes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    -aThere you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    -aRelos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying >>>>>>>> the much higher cost of grade separation.

    -aBullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in
    Brighton were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    -aBullshit

    Why would they have spent the money otherwise?

    So they didn't have to pay the wages of the fella
    who opened and closed the gates, fuckwit

    Minimal in the overall scheme of things. The time taken for one person
    to open 2 gates sequentially and close 2 gates sequentially was the
    killer reason.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:26:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train frequency >>>>>>> is increased, the road network feels it at grade crossings.
    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times>>>>> I beg to differ.
    Down on your knees, boy
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/ >>>>> melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox
    That's not PEAK TIMES
    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes.
    No need and my eyes aint rheumy
    The chart shows the entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from 4am >>> through to train finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule. Since >>> it is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show PEAK >>> TIMES.
    But doesn't show that the number of trains has increased in
    peak times because that isn't possible given how trains work
    The more efficient the signalling, the tighter the block systems can be.
    That is only a small effect. The problem is that they
    still need to stop at the stations to let pax on and off
    The most that can happen is longer trains with more carraiges
    They did that too.
    But that is limited by the length of the platforms
    and that has no significant effect on how long a level crossing
    is closed to car and truck traffic
    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five >>>>> minutes at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite >>>>> direction. The line was double tracked through there.
    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines >>>>> were triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but one >>>>> or the other was on my route to/from work.
    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done
    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban >>>>> lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.
    Nothing to do with the signalling system,
    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major physical >>> constraint on train frequency and network capacity across MelbournerCOs >>> metropolitan rail network, particularly in core bottlenecks like the >>> City Loop and inner-city corridors.
    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity- >>> signalling-melbourne
    And fixing that would have been a fucking sight
    cheaper than replacing all level crossings
    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times
    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple tracked. >>> The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on the outer >>> pair of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner pair of lines >>> so they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did not interfere >>> with local trains so your point is bullshit.
    You don't see express trains used to carry the peak time pax
    That's used for country traffic
    Have I got news for you!
    Nope
    AI Overview

    Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains Melbourne > operate primarily during weekday peak directions on lines like the > Frankston, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Glen Waverley, and Sunbury > routes. Unlike networks with permanent multi-track express layouts, > Melbourne's tracks mostly mix all-stops and peak express trains via > periodic overtaking or designated sequential non-stop runs.
    That's not express trains
    Key Characteristics of Express Operations
    Peak Direction Focus: Most express and limited-stop patterns run inbound > toward the CBD in the morning and outbound in the evening.
    Line-Specific Patterns:
    Werribee Line: Routinely operates express sections from Laverton through > to North Melbourne on weekdays.
    Lilydale & Belgrave Lines: Utilize a shared third-track section as far > as Box Hill to allow peak express runs to pass local all-stops services.
    Hurstbridge & Frankston: Feature targeted peak express or limited-stop > jumps past congested inner-suburban bottlenecks.
    Those are country lines
    Time Savings: Commute time reductions can vary, as some express and > adjacent all-stops services are tightly scheduled with comparable > overall end-to-end run times
    most other places separated to two transport modes
    More bullshit
    Been to Sydney lately?
    Yep
    Care to count the grade level crossings?
    Pity about the number of traffic lights
    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade >>>>>>> crossings.
    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them
    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.
    Bullshit with sydney
    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.
    You are wrong, as always
    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real time >>> to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New South >>> Wales are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive Traffic >>> System), an intelligent platform developed in Sydney that continuously >>> measures vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian demand via >>> road sensors to optimize green times and cycle lengths.
    And the reality is that because of the way roads are done in sydney
    its just not possible to give just one road traffic lights that sees >> none of the traffic on that road having to never stop for a traffic >> light
    Because you still need to have the traffic lights stop the
    traffic so that those who need to turn right across the
    traffic coming in the opposite direction can do that
    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo
    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in the >>> pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and cycle >>> times on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to coordinate >>> "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move smoothly >>> through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS >>> Priority Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses, >>> trams, or emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates infrastructure >>> through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic Light Program to >>> trial new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and safer turning >>> phases.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System >>> https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport- >>> technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/transport-2
    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.
    Then you need new glasses or your first glasses
    Melb. did that, Sydney should be able to do the same.
    Nope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor
    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management >>> system.
    That does not see the traffic on any particular
    road never have to stop at a traffic light
    Never said it did. What it does do is smooth out the traffic flow.
    Bullshit it does when there is always traffic that needs to turn
    right off the road you are trying to smooth the traffic on
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:36:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor or >>>>>>>>> industrial lines.

    Bullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/index.html

    Makes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    I'm not going anywhere

    More's the pity.

    More's the shitty in your case

    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    Which says nothing like your claim

    That link, used properly, shows every grade crossing in NSW.

    And says nothing like your original stupid ignorant claim

    Rheumy eyes,

    Just another of your pathetic little ignorant fantays

    get them seen to.

    Go and fuck yourself, again

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, Sydney's >>>>>>>>> hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads and >>>>>>>>> rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade >>>>>>> crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Prove it.

    Streetview does that

    YOU made that ignorant claim

    YOU get to prove that claim

    THAT'S how it works

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the >>>>>>>>> railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in
    certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, >>>>>>> problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    I haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    Things have changed in the past 100 years Rod.

    I have been there in a car countless times since then, fuckwit

    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much >>>>>>>>> easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of the >>>>>>>>> rail network.

    More bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    Bullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    And you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered motor >>>>> vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4 million. >>>>> By the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of
    Statistics, total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1 million, >>>>> reflecting massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    Most do, and on a daily basis.

    Bullshit given more than one car per household

    And, during the day, all the cars are out, even the wife's hack -
    shopping, school drop offs and pickups, socialising.

    Bullshit and streetview proves that that claim is complete
    and utter mindless bullshit, as always from you

    Oh, I forgot, it's been nigh on a century since you did that sort of thing

    More of your complete and utter mindless bullshit, as always from you

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the >>>>>>>>> last examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    Bullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway >>>>>>> level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station >>>>>>> on Union Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with >>>>>>> automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting caught >>>>>>> at. That and the one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a little >>>>>>> further down. Those streets were my rat run through that part of >>>>>>> town.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    There you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    Relos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying >>>>>>>>> the much higher cost of grade separation.

    Bullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in
    Brighton were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    Bullshit

    Why would they have spent the money otherwise?

    So they didn't have to pay the wages of the fella
    who opened and closed the gates, fuckwit

    Minimal in the overall scheme of things.

    Still worth doing and that's why they did that, fuckwit

    The time taken for one person to open 2 gates sequentially and close 2 gates sequentially was the killer reason.

    Bullshit it was
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:51:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 2:26 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train
    frequency is increased, the road network feels it at grade
    crossings.

    -aThe train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times

    I beg to differ.

    -aDown on your knees, boy

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/
    melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox

    -aThat's not PEAK TIMES

    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes.

    -aNo need and my eyes aint rheumy

    The chart shows the entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from
    4am through to train finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule.
    Since it is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show
    PEAK TIMES.

    -aBut doesn't show that the number of trains has increased in
    peak times because that isn't possible given how trains work

    The more efficient the signalling, the tighter the block systems can be.

    That is only a small effect. The problem is that they
    still need to stop at the stations to let pax on and off

    The most that can happen is longer trains with more carraiges

    They did that too.

    But that is limited by the length of the platforms

    6 car sets, standard for most urban transit.

    That said, nothing is static.

    Melbourne has had to lengthen station platforms multiple times in its
    history to accommodate longer train sets, including major platform
    extension projects for the introduction of 7-car High Capacity Metro
    Trains (HCMTs) and historical expansions.

    Historical and Recent Platform Lengthening

    1960s Expansions: Platforms on major suburban lines like Lilydale,
    Belgrave, and Glen Waverley were lengthened in 1967, followed by
    Frankston, Pakenham, and others in 1968, to make space for longer
    ~155-meter trains.

    High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMTs): The introduction of 7-car HCMTs
    required extensive platform extensions along the Cranbourne and Pakenham
    lines (such as at Dandenong, Officer, Cranbourne, and Hallam stations)
    because these new sets are roughly 20% longer than older suburban configurations.

    Regional and Western Upgrades: Ongoing regional projectsrCosuch as the
    Melton Line UpgraderCoinclude platform extensions at stations like
    Cobblebank, Rockbank, Caroline Springs, and Deer Park to support longer
    9-car VLocity regional commuter services.

    Future-Proofing: While current underground and newly built stations are designed with extra capacity (built up to 220rCo230 meters to eventually handle potential 10-car HCMT expansions), many existing ground-level
    suburban stops still require physical modifications as train capacities
    grow.

    and that has no significant effect on how long a level crossing
    is closed to car and truck traffic

    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five
    minutes at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite
    direction. The line was double tracked through there.

    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines
    were triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but
    one or the other was on my route to/from work.

    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done

    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban >>>>>> lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.
    -aNothing to do with the signalling system,

    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major
    physical constraint on train frequency and network capacity across
    MelbournerCOs metropolitan rail network, particularly in core
    bottlenecks like the City Loop and inner-city corridors.

    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity-
    signalling-melbourne

    -aAnd fixing that would have been a fucking sight
    cheaper than replacing all level crossings

    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times

    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple
    tracked. The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on
    the outer pair of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner
    pair of lines so they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did
    not interfere with local trains so your point is bullshit.

    -aYou don't see express trains used to carry the peak time pax
    -aThat's used for country traffic

    Have I got news for you!

    Nope

    AI Overview

    Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains Melbourne
    operate primarily during weekday peak directions on lines like the
    Frankston, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Glen Waverley, and Sunbury
    routes. Unlike networks with permanent multi-track express layouts,
    Melbourne's tracks mostly mix all-stops and peak express trains via
    periodic overtaking or designated sequential non-stop runs.

    That's not express trains

    It says, "Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains". That covers the bases I suspect.


    Key Characteristics of Express Operations

    Peak Direction Focus: Most express and limited-stop patterns run
    inbound toward the CBD in the morning and outbound in the evening.

    Line-Specific Patterns:
    Werribee Line: Routinely operates express sections from Laverton
    through to North Melbourne on weekdays.

    Lilydale & Belgrave Lines: Utilize a shared third-track section as far
    as Box Hill to allow peak express runs to pass local all-stops services.
    Hurstbridge & Frankston: Feature targeted peak express or limited-stop
    jumps past congested inner-suburban bottlenecks.

    Those are country lines

    Electrified urban lines using urban electric car sets. Country lines are served by *diesels*.>
    Time Savings: Commute time reductions can vary, as some express and
    adjacent all-stops services are tightly scheduled with comparable
    overall end-to-end run times

    most other places separated to two transport modes

    -aMore bullshit

    Been to Sydney lately?

    -aYep

    Care to count the grade level crossings?

    -aPity about the number of traffic lights

    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade >>>>>>>> crossings.

    -aThey are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them

    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.

    -aBullshit with sydney

    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.

    -aYou are wrong, as always

    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real >>>> time to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New
    South Wales are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive
    Traffic System), an intelligent platform developed in Sydney that
    continuously measures vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian
    demand via road sensors to optimize green times and cycle lengths.

    -aAnd the reality is that because of the way roads are done in sydney
    its just not possible to give just one road traffic lights that
    sees-a-a none-a of the traffic on that road having to never stop for a
    traffic light

    Because you still need to have the traffic lights stop the
    traffic so that those who need to turn right across the
    traffic coming in the opposite direction can do that

    And I can tell you from personal experience that you won't want to be
    doing that on any regular basis.>
    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in
    the pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and
    cycle times on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to
    coordinate "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move
    smoothly through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at
    each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS
    Priority Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses,
    trams, or emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates
    infrastructure through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic
    Light Program to trial new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and
    safer turning phases.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System

    https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport-
    technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/
    transport-2

    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.

    -aThen you need new glasses or your first glasses

    Melb. did-a-a that, Sydney should be able to do the same.

    -aNope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor

    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management
    system.

    That does not see the traffic on any particular
    road never have to stop at a traffic light

    Never said it did. What it does do is smooth out the traffic flow.

    Bullshit it does when there is always traffic that needs to turn
    right off the road you are trying to smooth the traffic on

    It smooths the traffic in the peak flow direct and those traveling in
    the opposite direction are left hanging - a lot!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 14:56:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 12/8/2026 2:36 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    Sydney has only about five remaining level crossings on minor >>>>>>>>>> or industrial lines.

    -aBullshit

    Please argue that point with the NSW government.

    https://maps.transport.nsw.gov.au/egeomaps/level-crossing/
    index.html

    -aMakes more sense to use google maps in something as basic as that

    Off you go then.

    -aI'm not going anywhere

    More's the pity.

    -aMore's the shitty in your case

    That link will refer you to Google maps and even direct you to
    StreetView.

    -aWhich says nothing like your claim

    That link, used properly, shows every grade crossing in NSW.

    -aAnd says nothing like your original stupid ignorant claim

    Rheumy eyes,

    Just another of your pathetic little ignorant fantays

    get them seen to.

    Go and fuck yourself, again

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly,
    Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate >>>>>>>>>> roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and tunnels.

    -aThat mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade >>>>>>>> crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    -aBullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    -aIt says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    -aBeen doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Prove it.

    Streetview does that

    YOU made that ignorant claim

    YOU get to prove that claim

    THAT'S how it works

    Not really, my claim was that the NSW govt. own data shows very few
    urban grade crossings, 5 or 6 IIRC. I said *YOU* can verify by Streetview.> >>>>>>>>>> Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the >>>>>>>>>> railways?

    -aThere was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in >>>>>>>> certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, >>>>>>>> problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    -aBullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    -aI haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    Things have changed in the past 100 years Rod.

    I have been there in a car countless times since then, fuckwit

    But I *lived there* until a mere 14 years ago. And that from 1980. Ergo,
    my experience is in dealing with the system and observing first hand the changes over time , a long time.>
    You live in extreme regional NSW.

    Nothing extreme about it and even you should
    realise that its the closest state capital to where
    I live and plenty of events happen there and my
    sister lives there and still does and I even get
    real readical and visit at times

    Simple, Melbourne's flat landscape made level junctions much >>>>>>>>>> easier and cheaper to build during the initial expansion of >>>>>>>>>> the rail network.

    -aMore bulllshit

    There weren't many cars back then, especially pre 1950.

    -aBullshit

    I'd say I'm right and you're wrong.

    -aAnd you are completely wrong

    AI Overview
    In the mid-1950s, Australia had roughly 2.2 million registered
    motor vehicles, with passenger vehicle registrations around 1.4
    million. By the early 2020s, according to the Australian Bureau of >>>>>> Statistics, total registered motor vehicles surpassed 20.1
    million, reflecting massive population and ownership growth.

    Pity that many of them now don't get used on the
    roads daily and that's what matter traffic wise

    Most do, and on a daily basis.

    -aBullshit given more than one car per household

    And, during the day, all the cars are out, even the wife's hack -
    shopping, school drop offs and pickups, socialising.

    Bullshit and streetview proves that that claim is complete
    and utter mindless bullshit, as always from you

    Oh, I forgot, it's-a-a been nigh on a century since you did that sort of
    thing

    More of your complete and utter mindless bullshit, as always from you

    It wasn't until relatively recent times Melbourne removed the >>>>>>>>>> last examples of *manned* level crossing *gates*.

    -aBullshit

    Melbourne phased out its last hand operated, manual gate railway >>>>>>>> level crossings with gatekeepers such as those at Jewell station >>>>>>>> on Union Street in the late 1990s, when they were replaced with >>>>>>>> automated boom gates. That was one I seemed always getting
    caught at. That and the one on the same line at Brunswick Rd a >>>>>>>> little further down. Those streets were my rat run through that >>>>>>>> part of town.

    -aMakes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Obviously never experienced a manned gated level crossing.

    -aThere you go, face down in the mud, as always.

    -aRelos had a business in Brighton

    I can still recall those in Brunswick. Now Melbourne is paying >>>>>>>>>> the much higher cost of grade separation.

    -aBullshit

    The very last manually operated swing gates at New Street in
    Brighton were closed permanently circa 2010.

    Makes no difference to the effect on car traffic

    Made a huge difference when they put automated boom gates in.

    -aBullshit

    Why would they have spent the money otherwise?

    -aSo they didn't have to pay the wages of the fella
    who opened and closed the gates, fuckwit

    Minimal in the overall scheme of things.

    Still worth doing and that's why they did that, fuckwit

    The time taken for one person to open 2 gates sequentially and close 2
    gates sequentially was the killer reason.

    Bullshit it was
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 15:37:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Not at all, the train network doesn't slow down if train >>>>>>>>> frequency is increased, the road network feels it at grade >>>>>>>>> crossings.
    The train frequency did not increase significantly at peak times >>>>>>> I beg to differ.
    Down on your knees, boy
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MelbourneTrains/comments/1qrnw6y/ >>>>>>> melbournes_train_service_frequency_february_2026/#lightbox
    That's not PEAK TIMES
    Take a closer look with those old rheumy eyes.
    No need and my eyes aint rheumy
    The chart shows the entire timetabled day, a weekday at that, from >>>>> 4am through to train finish at 1am - a 21 hour operating schedule. >>>>> Since it is a WEEKDAY and covers the entire day, it does indeed show >>>>> PEAK TIMES.
    But doesn't show that the number of trains has increased in
    peak times because that isn't possible given how trains work
    The more efficient the signalling, the tighter the block systems can >>> be.
    That is only a small effect. The problem is that they
    still need to stop at the stations to let pax on and off
    The most that can happen is longer trains with more carraiges
    They did that too.
    But that is limited by the length of the platforms
    6 car sets, standard for most urban transit.
    So they can't increase that for the reason I stated
    That said, nothing is static.
    Melbourne has had to lengthen station platforms multiple times in its > history to accommodate longer train sets, including major platform > extension projects for the introduction of 7-car High Capacity Metro > Trains (HCMTs) and historical expansions.
    One extra car is sweet fuck all
    and that has no significant effect on how long a level crossing
    is closed to car and truck traffic
    At my old station, Nunawading, there was one train every five >>>>>>> minutes at peak, not counting those traveling in the opposite >>>>>>> direction. The line was double tracked through there.
    At Mont Albert and Surrey Hills, it was even worse and the lines >>>>>>> were triple tracked. Those two grade crossings were the pits but >>>>>>> one or the other was on my route to/from work.
    That's the problem with trains, that can't be done
    It *is* done with trains. In Fact, at peak times some Melb. urban >>>>>>> lines reached peak capacity due to signalling system constraints.
    Nothing to do with the signalling system,
    Traditional fixed-block signalling systems have been a major >>>>> physical constraint on train frequency and network capacity across >>>>> MelbournerCOs metropolitan rail network, particularly in core >>>>> bottlenecks like the City Loop and inner-city corridors.
    https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/ipl/high-capacity- >>>>> signalling-melbourne
    And fixing that would have been a fucking sight
    cheaper than replacing all level crossings
    everything to do with the fact that that
    trains in the same direction have to wait
    for the one(s) in front of them and you
    can't do express trains that don't stop
    at every station on the line in peak times
    That's why express lines in Melbourne are triple or quadruple >>>>> tracked. The line to Malvern was like that - express trains ran on >>>>> the outer pair of lines, stopping all stations trains on the inner >>>>> pair of lines so they had a common platform. IOW, express trains did >>>>> not interfere with local trains so your point is bullshit.
    You don't see express trains used to carry the peak time pax
    That's used for country traffic
    Have I got news for you!
    Nope
    AI Overview

    Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains Melbourne >>> operate primarily during weekday peak directions on lines like the >>> Frankston, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Glen Waverley, and Sunbury >>> routes. Unlike networks with permanent multi-track express layouts, >>> Melbourne's tracks mostly mix all-stops and peak express trains via >>> periodic overtaking or designated sequential non-stop runs.
    That's not express trains
    It says, "Limited-stop and express train services on Metro Trains". That > covers the bases I suspect.
    Pity about the routes it listed
    Key Characteristics of Express Operations
    Peak Direction Focus: Most express and limited-stop patterns run >>> inbound toward the CBD in the morning and outbound in the evening.
    Line-Specific Patterns:
    Werribee Line: Routinely operates express sections from Laverton >>> through to North Melbourne on weekdays.
    Lilydale & Belgrave Lines: Utilize a shared third-track section as far >>> as Box Hill to allow peak express runs to pass local all-stops >>> services.
    Hurstbridge & Frankston: Feature targeted peak express or limited-stop >>> jumps past congested inner-suburban bottlenecks.
    Those are country lines
    Electrified urban lines using urban electric car sets. Country lines are > served by *diesels*.
    Those listed are still shorter country lines
    Time Savings: Commute time reductions can vary, as some express and >>> adjacent all-stops services are tightly scheduled with comparable >>> overall end-to-end run times
    most other places separated to two transport modes
    More bullshit
    Been to Sydney lately?
    Yep
    Care to count the grade level crossings?
    Pity about the number of traffic lights
    Not talking about traffic lights, talking about railway grade >>>>>>>>> crossings.
    They are much more important than level grossings
    to traffic flow because there are FAR more of them
    They can be adjusted on the fly to give peak priority flow.
    Bullshit with sydney
    It appears you might be wrong, *again*.
    You are wrong, as always
    N++N++Sydney traffic light sequences are dynamically adjusted in real >>>>> time to suit traffic flow needs. Most traffic signals across New >>>>> South Wales are managed by SCATS (Sydney Coordinated Adaptive >>>>> Traffic System), an intelligent platform developed in Sydney that >>>>> continuously measures vehicle volumes, queue lengths, and pedestrian >>>>> demand via road sensors to optimize green times and cycle lengths.>>>> And the reality is that because of the way roads are done in sydney
    its just not possible to give just one road traffic lights that sees >>>> none of the traffic on that road having to never stop for a traffic >>>> light
    Because you still need to have the traffic lights stop the
    traffic so that those who need to turn right across the
    traffic coming in the opposite direction can do that
    And I can tell you from personal experience that you won't want to be > doing that on any regular basis.
    You have no choice in sydney, fuckwit
    https://www.trafficltd.com.au/services/scats/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo
    How Traffic Sequences Adapt
    Real-Time Adjustments: Sensors (such as inductive loops buried in >>>>> the pavement) detect vehicle numbers and adjust phase splits and >>>>> cycle times on a cycle-by-cycle basis.
    Network Coordination: Intersections are linked together to >>>>> coordinate "green waves" along major corridors, helping traffic move >>>>> smoothly through multiple consecutive lights rather than stopping at >>>>> each one.
    Public Transport & Priority: Specialized systems like the SCATS >>>>> Priority Engine (SPE) allow the network to dynamically favor buses, >>>>> trams, or emergency vehicles when needed.
    Targeted Upgrades: Transport for NSW regularly updates >>>>> infrastructure through initiatives like the Intelligent Traffic >>>>> Light Program to trial new smart sensors, AI-assisted detection, and >>>>> safer turning phases.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67cHJ_JUFo
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>> Sydney_Coordinated_Adaptive_Traffic_System
    https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/strategy/transport- >>>>> technology-strategy/delivering-transport-outcomes-technology/ >>>>> transport-2
    Looks no different to what is being done in Melbourne.
    Then you need new glasses or your first glasses
    Melb. did that, Sydney should be able to do the same.
    Nope, because the road network is MUCH
    more complicated in sydney due to the harbor
    It would seem not since NSW is using a home grown traffic management >>>>> system.
    That does not see the traffic on any particular
    road never have to stop at a traffic light
    Never said it did. What it does do is smooth out the traffic flow.
    Bullshit it does when there is always traffic that needs to turn
    right off the road you are trying to smooth the traffic on
    It smooths the traffic in the peak flow direct and those traveling in > the opposite direction are left hanging - a lot!
    Pity about those who need to turn right off the peak flow traffic
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 15:46:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, >>>>>>>>>>> Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate >>>>>>>>>>> roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and >>>>>>>>>>> tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade >>>>>>>>> crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Prove it.

    Streetview does that

    YOU made that ignorant claim

    YOU get to prove that claim

    THAT'S how it works

    Not really,

    Yes, really

    my claim was that the NSW govt. own data showsvery few urban grade crossings, 5 or 6 IIRC.

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the >>>>>>>>>>> railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in >>>>>>>>> certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, >>>>>>>>> problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    I haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    Things have changed in the past 100 years Rod.

    I have been there in a car countless times since then, fuckwit

    But I *lived there* until a mere 14 years ago.

    I have visited there heaps of times in that time

    And that from 1980. Ergo, my experience is in dealing with the system
    and observing first hand the changes over time , a long time.

    And my experience in that time that it has changed fuck all in that time
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Jason@pj@jostle.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 06:52:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there and it's as hilly
    as a roller coaster, and the roads are as convoluted as squashed
    toads' guts. I wouldn't live there if the streets were paved with
    gold.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 07:34:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    I wouldn't live there if the streets were paved with gold.

    You are irrelevant
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 22:58:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    I wouldn't live there if the streets were paved with gold.

    You are irrelevant


    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne. Sydney features a complex,
    undulating terrain built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.
    In contrast, Melbourne sits on a much flatter, low-lying plain that historically allowed for an organized street grid layout.
    Terrain Differences
    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and dramatic
    drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep up-and-down walking or driving.
    Melbourne: Built on a mostly flat geological terrain with gentle slopes,
    making inner and outer suburbs much more uniform and level.

    HTH Rod
    --
    Xeno
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Aug 12 23:04:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, >>>>>>>>>>>> Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate >>>>>>>>>>>> roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and >>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels.

    That mangles the real story too

    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid grade >>>>>>>>>> crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.

    Bullshit

    The proof is in the system as it now stands.

    It says nothing like that hilly claim

    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.

    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap

    Prove it.

    Streetview does that

    YOU made that ignorant claim

    YOU get to prove that claim

    THAT'S how it works

    Not really,

    Yes, really

    my claim was that the NSW govt. own data showsvery few urban grade
    crossings, 5 or 6 IIRC.

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    No, YOU are trying to shift the goalposts now that you lost the argument on level crossings. AI is informing you that yourCOre on a path to a hiding on this point as well. So run along and argue with one of your alternate personalities, wonrCOt you?

    Why didn't Melbourne do this when they initially built the >>>>>>>>>>>> railways?

    There was no need to

    Initially, no, by the 60s and 70s the need became pressing in >>>>>>>>>> certain locations. As vehicular traffic became much more common, >>>>>>>>>> problems existed at *every grade crossing*.

    Bullshit

    How would you know Rod?

    I lived in Melburg for many years and visited it
    lots of the time right thru that period and never
    once ever got held up at a level crossing

    You don't when you're on the train Rod!

    I haven't used the train since I lived in Melburg as a kid

    Things have changed in the past 100 years Rod.

    I have been there in a car countless times since then, fuckwit

    But I *lived there* until a mere 14 years ago.

    I have visited there heaps of times in that time

    And that from 1980. Ergo, my experience is in dealing with the system
    and observing first hand the changes over time , a long time.

    And my experience in that time that it has changed fuck all in that time

    --
    Xeno
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 09:10:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    Bullshit it does

    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne.

    Doesn't mean that sydney is hilly, it isnt

    Sydney features a complex, undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.

    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and dramatic drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep
    up-and-down walking or driving.

    Bullshit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 00:52:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    Bullshit it does

    AI disagrees with you, ergo, your opinion is irrelevant. G,S & M.


    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne.

    Doesn't mean that sydney is hilly, it isnt

    It does mean exactly that. Both have hills, Sydney more so than Melbourne.

    Sydney features a complex, undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    Undulating is indicative of hills. Not mountains, hills!

    built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.

    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and dramatic
    drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep
    up-and-down walking or driving.

    Bullshit

    Steep rolling hills, deep valleys, dramatic drops to waterways, hilly in anyonerCOs book.
    --
    Xeno
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Jason@pj@jostle.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 11:23:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 12 Aug 2026 22:58:12 GMT, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    I wouldn't live there if the streets were paved with gold.

    You are irrelevant


    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne. Sydney features a complex, >undulating terrain built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone >ridges, and coastal cliffs.
    In contrast, Melbourne sits on a much flatter, low-lying plain that >historically allowed for an organized street grid layout.
    Terrain Differences
    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and dramatic >drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep up-and-down >walking or driving.
    Melbourne: Built on a mostly flat geological terrain with gentle slopes, >making inner and outer suburbs much more uniform and level.

    HTH Rod
    Ha! Rod shot down in flames yet again. Rod owes me many belly-crawl retractions and we can add this snafu to the list. How can he stand
    the SHAME!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 11:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to >>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
    roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels.
    Have fun listing any examples of that happening
    That mangles the real story too
    No, the real story is that it was relatively easy to avoid >>>>>>>>>>> grade crossings in Sydney compared to Melbourne.
    Bullshit
    The proof is in the system as it now stands.
    It says nothing like that hilly claim
    Only need to drive around Sydney to verify.
    Been doing that since before you were even born thanks
    and streetview proved your claim is ignorant crap
    Prove it.
    Streetview does that
    YOU made that ignorant claim
    YOU get to prove that claim
    THAT'S how it works
    Not really,
    Yes, really
    my claim was that the NSW govt. own data showsvery few urban grade
    crossings, 5 or 6 IIRC.
    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is
    No,
    Yep
    YOU are trying to shift the goalposts
    No goalposts ever moved
    YOU made that original stupid ignorant claim
    that because sydney is hilly, that's why sydney
    was able to avoid level crossings
    now that you lost the argument on level crossings.
    That never happened on WHY sydney doesn't have
    as many level crossings as melburg use to have
    before the labor terminal stupidity in melburg
    AI is informing you that yourCOre on apath to a hiding on this point as > well.
    Bullshit it does anything of the sort
    So run along and argue with one of your alternate
    personalities, wonrCOt you?
    Go and fuck yourself, again and retake bullshitting 101
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 11:33:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is
    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there
    I have lived there for years
    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,
    Mindlessly silly
    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.
    yes
    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,
    Bullshit it does
    AI disagrees with you,
    Bullshit it does
    ergo, your opinion is irrelevant.
    Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something
    G,S & M.
    Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed drunken fantasys
    AI Overview
    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne.
    Doesn't mean that sydney is hilly, it isnt
    It does mean exactly that.
    Bullshit
    Both have hills, Sydney more so than Melbourne.
    Different matter entirely
    Sydney features a complex, undulating terrain
    That's not HILLY
    Undulating is indicative of hills.
    Wrong, we have different words for a reason, fuckwit
    Not mountains, hills!
    There certainly are mountains to the west of sydney, but that's not sydney
    built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.
    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and >>> dramatic
    drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep
    up-and-down walking or driving.
    Bullshit
    Steep rolling hills,
    No such animal in sydney
    deep valleys, dramatic drops to waterways,
    That's not hills, fuckwit
    hilly in anyonerCOs book.
    Only in a fuckwit's book
    And can't cite even a single example of where
    that has meant that there was no need for a
    LEVEL CROSSING there
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 13:18:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 13/8/2026 11:33 am, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod.-a-a I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed-a-a toads' guts.

    yes

    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    Bullshit it does

    AI disagrees with you,

    Bullshit it does

    ergo, your opinion is irrelevant.

    Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something

    G,S & M.

    Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed drunken fantasys

    Aw gee, did I touch a nerve Rod?>
    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne.

    Doesn't mean that sydney is hilly, it isnt

    It does mean exactly that.

    Bullshit

    Yes, your bullshit is flowing in undulating (see:hilly) waves.>
    Both have hills, Sydney more so than-a-a Melbourne.

    Different matter entirely

    Sydney features a complex,-a-a undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    Undulating is indicative of hills.

    Wrong, we have different words for a reason, fuckwit

    AI Overview
    Undulating terrain means a landscape that rises and falls
    smoothly in a wave-like pattern. Instead of being
    completely flat or sharply mountainous, the ground features
    gentle hills, slopes, and dips.

    Key Characteristics
    Wave-like Shape: The surface curves up and down
    continuously like waves on the ocean.
    Gentle Slopes: Elevation changes are gradual rather
    than steep or dramatic.
    Common Synonyms: Often described as rolling hills,
    uneven ground, or a hilly landscape.

    Note the use of the words "rolling hills" and "hilly landscape". Not my
    words Rod, the words of AI derived from heaps of learned resources.


    Not mountains, hills!

    There certainly are mountains to the west of sydney, but that's not sydney

    Told you, we aren't talking about mountains Rod. The topic is *hills*.>
    built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.

    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and
    dramatic
    drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep
    up-and-down-a-a walking or driving.

    Bullshit

    Steep rolling hills,

    No such animal in sydney

    deep valleys, dramatic drops to waterways,

    That's not hills, fuckwit

    A deep valley, by definition, is a valley surrounded by hills -
    otherwise it wouldn't be deep, see?>
    hilly in-a-a anyonerCOs book.

    Only in a fuckwit's book

    Thank you for your loser's concession. >
    And can't cite even a single example of where
    that has meant that there was no need for a
    LEVEL CROSSING there
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 13:20:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 13/8/2026 11:23 am, Peter Jason wrote:
    On 12 Aug 2026 22:58:12 GMT, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    We are NOW discussing your stupid ignorant
    claim that sydney is hilly. Pigs arse it is

    I'm afraid it is Rod. I have actually been there

    I have lived there for years

    and it's as hilly as a roller coaster,

    Mindlessly silly

    and the roads are as convoluted as squashed toads' guts.

    yes

    I wouldn't live there if the streets were paved with gold.

    You are irrelevant


    Well, AI thinks your opinion is irrelevant,

    AI Overview

    Sydney is much more hilly than Melbourne. Sydney features a complex,
    undulating terrain built around an intricate natural harbor, sandstone
    ridges, and coastal cliffs.
    In contrast, Melbourne sits on a much flatter, low-lying plain that
    historically allowed for an organized street grid layout.
    Terrain Differences
    Sydney: Characterized by steep, rolling hills, deep valleys, and dramatic
    drops down to waterways. Neighborhoods frequently demand steep up-and-down >> walking or driving.
    Melbourne: Built on a mostly flat geological terrain with gentle slopes,
    making inner and outer suburbs much more uniform and level.

    HTH Rod
    Ha! Rod shot down in flames yet again. Rod owes me many belly-crawl retractions and we can add this snafu to the list. How can he stand
    the SHAME!

    The silly fellow sticks his hand into the fire and wonders why he gets
    burnt.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 13:59:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    Sydney features a complex, undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    Undulating is indicative of hills.

    Wrong, we have different words for a reason, fuckwit

    AI Overview
    Undulating terrain means a landscape that rises and falls
    smoothly in a wave-like pattern.

    We have different words for a reason, fuckwit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 16:35:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 13/8/2026 1:59 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    Sydney features a complex,-a-a undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    Undulating is indicative of hills.

    -aWrong, we have different words for a reason, fuckwit

    AI Overview
    -a-a-a Undulating terrain means a landscape that rises and falls
    -a-a-a smoothly in a wave-like pattern.

    We have different words for a reason, fuckwit

    Rod, you snipped everything you were totally wrong on - and left in a
    piece where you are patently wrong on. You're losing the plot, man!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 17:31:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

    Sydney features a complex, undulating terrain

    That's not HILLY

    Undulating is indicative of hills.

    Wrong, we have different words for a reason, fuckwit

    AI Overview
    Undulating terrain means a landscape that rises and falls
    smoothly in a wave-like pattern.

    We have different words for a reason, fuckwit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 18:15:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
    roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels.

    Have fun listing any examples of that happening
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Aug 13 21:12:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars



    On 13/8/2026 6:15 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
    roads and rail using cuttings, embankments, bridges, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnels.

    Have fun listing any examples of that happening

    Sure, first example is Central Station.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Aug 14 01:35:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
    Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
    Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

    There are several very good reasons for that. Firstly,
    Sydney's hilly terrain made it easier historically to separate roads
    and rail using cuttings, embankments,bridges, and tunnels.

    Have fun listing any examples of that happening

    Sure, first example is Central Station.

    That is no more hilly than Flinders St Melburg

    Try again
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2