Suddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Suddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you had
to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However Microsoft
closed that server down over 15 years ago.
On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 17:43:48 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Suddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you had
to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However Microsoft
closed that server down over 15 years ago.
| On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Traveling back in time? (-;
On 2026/9/21 18:45:20, s|b wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 17:43:48 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:I'm not sure he was using that nym then!
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Suddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you had >>> to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However Microsoft
closed that server down over 15 years ago.
| On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Traveling back in time? (-;
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
Suddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you had to >connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However Microsoft closed >that server down over 15 years ago.
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you
had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the news groups.
On 09/22/2026 3:39 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you
had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web
based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the
news groups.
Not entirely true.
At the time, circa 2010
- NNTP was old technology
- Spam and Flame Targets
- NNTP traffic declined(50% less than prior year, 80% less than 2008
On 2026/9/22 15:28:38, ....winston wrote:Sorry, meant to say:
On 09/22/2026 3:39 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:What are you saying is not true?
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you >>>> had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>> based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the >>> news groups.
Not entirely true.
At the time, circa 2010
- NNTP was old technology
- Spam and Flame Targets
- NNTP traffic declined(50% less than prior year, 80% less than 2008>>
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wanted to
move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
On 2026/9/22 17:33:53, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/9/22 15:28:38, ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026 3:39 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:What are you saying is not true?
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active
XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you
had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>>> based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the >>>> news groups.
Not entirely true.
At the time, circa 2010
- NNTP was old technology
- Spam and Flame Targets
- NNTP traffic declined(50% less than prior year, 80% less than 2008
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wanted to
move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
Sorry, meant to say:
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft DIDN'T
want to move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
On 09/22/2026 1:23 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/9/22 17:33:53, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/9/22 15:28:38, ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026 3:39 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:What are you saying is not true?
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active >>>>>>> XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt
the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you >>>>>> had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>>>> based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the >>>>> news groups.
Not entirely true.
At the time, circa 2010
- NNTP was old technology
- Spam and Flame Targets
- NNTP traffic declined(50% less than prior year, 80% less than 2008 >>>>
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wanted to >>> move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
Sorry, meant to say:
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft DIDN'T
want to move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
Absolute Control wasn't the primary reason.
Nor were you party to why the business decisions focused elsewhere.
- Flaming and targeting MSFT employees that were monitoring the NNTP
groups was rampant.
- In 2010, Outlook Express was no longer a supported product. Windows
Live Essentials already had 2 yrs of online forum and feedback support. Windows 8 already in beta stage with no included email client and Live
Mail the only MSFT news/mail product supported was the focus.
Note: While Live Mail included nntp support, it was only a courtesy inclusion. Live Mail was first and foremost intended for use with MSn, Hotmail, Live *Microsoft Accounts*(for Mail, Contacts, Calendar, SkyDrive(later renamed to OneDrive) *and* all capable of two-way sync-ability.
-i.e. no reason to support nntp when the product direction, support
and feedback were already in place online and other online
channels(social media - Twitter, Reddit, etc.). Additionally, no real business reason to internally support 3rd party email/news clients that provided none of the sync features that the Windows Live Essentials suite(Mail, PhotoGallery, Movie Maker, Writer, Messenger) provided.
Yes, localizing support to MSFT turf can be interpreted as a 'control' reason, but more important reasons and objectives existed.
On 2026/9/23 7:7:8, ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026 1:23 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:You seem to be suggesting that the main - or at least a major - reason
On 2026/9/22 17:33:53, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/9/22 15:28:38, ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026 3:39 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:What are you saying is not true?
On 20/09/2026 in message <nhagq4Fb024U1@mid.individual.net> Brian
Gregory wrote:
On 02/02/2023 13:37, Newyana2 wrote:
-aSuddenly neither E-S nor AIOE can find the MS newsgroups.
I visit microsoft.* regular for VB, vbscript, and the most active >>>>>>>> XP group. Does anyone know the story here? Have they been
discontinued? Threats from Microsoft or some such? Historicallt >>>>>>>> the MS groups have been among the best because they had
a long history of use by MVPs and Windows professionals.
AFAIK they were never an official part of usenet and originally you >>>>>>> had to connect to msnews.microsoft.com to access them. However
Microsoft closed that server down over 15 years ago.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>>>>> based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the >>>>>> news groups.
Not entirely true.
At the time, circa 2010
- NNTP was old technology
- Spam and Flame Targets
- NNTP traffic declined(50% less than prior year, 80% less than 2008 >>>>>
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wanted to >>>> move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
Sorry, meant to say:
Yes, NNTP traffic was falling, but that doesn't mean Microsoft DIDN'T
want to move discussion to somewhere where they had absolute control.
Absolute Control wasn't the primary reason.
Nor were you party to why the business decisions focused elsewhere.
- Flaming and targeting MSFT employees that were monitoring the NNTP
groups was rampant.
- In 2010, Outlook Express was no longer a supported product. Windows
Live Essentials already had 2 yrs of online forum and feedback support.
Windows 8 already in beta stage with no included email client and Live
Mail the only MSFT news/mail product supported was the focus.
Note: While Live Mail included nntp support, it was only a courtesy
inclusion. Live Mail was first and foremost intended for use with MSn,
Hotmail, Live *Microsoft Accounts*(for Mail, Contacts, Calendar,
SkyDrive(later renamed to OneDrive) *and* all capable of two-way
sync-ability.
-i.e. no reason to support nntp when the product direction, support
and feedback were already in place online and other online
channels(social media - Twitter, Reddit, etc.). Additionally, no real
business reason to internally support 3rd party email/news clients that
provided none of the sync features that the Windows Live Essentials
suite(Mail, PhotoGallery, Movie Maker, Writer, Messenger) provided.
Yes, localizing support to MSFT turf can be interpreted as a 'control'
reason, but more important reasons and objectives existed.
for them leaving usenet was that they no longer wanted to support NNTP.
But the discussions in those newsgroups covered a lot more than justDid not matter, see above - all those topics could be covered in
their NNTP client; there might have been one specific 'group that did, I can't remember, but they were wide-ranging, covering all aspects of -
well, for example, as Newyana2 lists, VB, vbscript, and XP, to name but three; such discussion of such subjects were not really affected by
whether an NNTP client was supported or not.
An interesting parallel was (were?) the demon.* 'groups; several of the
main newsservers carried those, and continued to do so when Demon became
only a fond (or otherwise!) memory. (In fact as far as I can see several
tens of them are still there, though I don't know how active.) Not a
complete parallel, as AFAIK they were never part of a closed server.
On 09/23/2026 9:12 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
You seem to be suggesting that the main - or at least a major - reason>> for them leaving usenet was that they no longer wanted to support NNTP.
That would be more correct than incorrect.
As noted, in 2010, Win8 in beta(and again once released to RTM) had already made it clear that no email client would be included in the OS.> Live Mail was the only supported client and focused on synchronization
with Mail, Contacts, Calendar, SkyDrive(OneDrive), PhotoGallery and integration with Messenger(Contacts).
- it was also clear in 2010 that Live Mail would be deprecated in 2012(Last release), Live Mail 2011 was already in preview mode and
intended for Vista(Not Windows 7 or 8).
=> It was quite clear, that the move to Online forums and Social Media
was the favored over NNTP. Coincidentally, in 2010, Microsoft Answers
2.0 was already in preview mode and designed to replaced Answers 1.0 and
the existing previously mentioned Live Forums where the Live Forums
content would be migrated into Answers 2.0.
i.e. all the above further validating that NTTP support was destined > for the graveyard. Furthermore, it was easy to see that MSFT really had
no reason to support internal use of other 3rd party news clients for continued NNTP use.
All those topics _where carried on the Microsoft 'groups_, yes.Did not matter, see above - all those topics could be covered in
But the discussions in those newsgroups covered a lot more than just
their NNTP client; there might have been one specific 'group that did, I
can't remember, but they were wide-ranging, covering all aspects of -
well, for example, as Newyana2 lists, VB, vbscript, and XP, to name but
three; such discussion of such subjects were not really affected by
whether an NNTP client was supported or not.
Answers, Reddit, Social Media, and Feedback. Windows Insider(its own Feedback for everything Windows included) was already in the Pre-Alpha > and Milestone(both before Beta status) stage - again no internal
direction or support for NNTP.
An interesting parallel was (were?) the demon.* 'groups; several of the
main newsservers carried those, and continued to do so when Demon became
only a fond (or otherwise!) memory. (In fact as far as I can see several
tens of them are still there, though I don't know how active.) Not a
complete parallel, as AFAIK they were never part of a closed server.
Yes, but that does not mean supported by MSFT(MSFT didn't care and
ignored the status of any group and content on alternative newsservers)>
All I can add, not much of this was available to public, but those of us
who add access to internal on-site(Redmond campus) meetings and
discussions were well aware(but not always comfortable) with the
direction, but it was clear in 2010 NNTP support was a dead issue and
even more so what was coming in the future(Windows 8 and 10, Forums,
Social Media, and the Insider O/S builds and its own Feedback portal).
On 2026/9/24 8:52:45, ....winston wrote:
On 09/23/2026 9:12 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
Yes, I've got it: MS didn't want to support NNTP (or, if they had theirYou seem to be suggesting that the main - or at least a major - reason
for them leaving usenet was that they no longer wanted to support NNTP.
That would be more correct than incorrect.
As noted, in 2010, Win8 in beta(and again once released to RTM) had
already made it clear that no email client would be included in the OS.
Live Mail was the only supported client and focused on synchronization
with Mail, Contacts, Calendar, SkyDrive(OneDrive), PhotoGallery and
integration with Messenger(Contacts).
- it was also clear in 2010 that Live Mail would be deprecated in
2012(Last release), Live Mail 2011 was already in preview mode and
intended for Vista(Not Windows 7 or 8).
=> It was quite clear, that the move to Online forums and Social Media
was the favored over NNTP. Coincidentally, in 2010, Microsoft Answers
2.0 was already in preview mode and designed to replaced Answers 1.0 and
the existing previously mentioned Live Forums where the Live Forums
content would be migrated into Answers 2.0.
i.e. all the above further validating that NTTP support was destined
for the graveyard. Furthermore, it was easy to see that MSFT really had
no reason to support internal use of other 3rd party news clients for
continued NNTP use.
way, email). That doesn't mean the tens of thousands of _other_
newsgroups were going to abandon it. Yes, I know they didn't carry many (any?) of those on their own server.
Did not matter, see above - all those topics could be covered in
But the discussions in those newsgroups covered a lot more than just
their NNTP client; there might have been one specific 'group that did, I >>> can't remember, but they were wide-ranging, covering all aspects of -
well, for example, as Newyana2 lists, VB, vbscript, and XP, to name but
three; such discussion of such subjects were not really affected by
whether an NNTP client was supported or not.
Answers, Reddit, Social Media, and Feedback. Windows Insider(its own
Feedback for everything Windows included) was already in the Pre-Alpha
and Milestone(both before Beta status) stage - again no internal
direction or support for NNTP.
All those topics _where carried on the Microsoft 'groups_, yes.
Basically, "it's our ball, and we're taking it away"; the rest of us
An interesting parallel was (were?) the demon.* 'groups; several of the
main newsservers carried those, and continued to do so when Demon became >>> only a fond (or otherwise!) memory. (In fact as far as I can see several >>> tens of them are still there, though I don't know how active.) Not a
complete parallel, as AFAIK they were never part of a closed server.
Yes, but that does not mean supported by MSFT(MSFT didn't care and
ignored the status of any group and content on alternative newsservers)
All I can add, not much of this was available to public, but those of us
who add access to internal on-site(Redmond campus) meetings and
discussions were well aware(but not always comfortable) with the
direction, but it was clear in 2010 NNTP support was a dead issue and
even more so what was coming in the future(Windows 8 and 10, Forums,
Social Media, and the Insider O/S builds and its own Feedback portal).
just had lots of other balls to play with, and didn't really care if you closed your little sports ground, we had several others, mostly less restrictive too. Slight sadness at loss of some friends, but at least
some of those came with us to the new alt. 'groups, if they could avoid Microsoft finding out in the case of those who were MS employees.
Basically, "it's our ball, and we're taking it away"; the rest of us
just had lots of other balls to play with, and didn't really care if you >>closed your little sports ground, we had several others, mostly less >>restrictive too. Slight sadness at loss of some friends, but at least
some of those came with us to the new alt. 'groups, if they could avoid >>Microsoft finding out in the case of those who were MS employees.
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was already >open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach, >scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was
already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach,
scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT
MVP and that is more important than the truth.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
On 9/25/2026 2:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston >>wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was >>>already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach, >>>scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT MVP >>and that is more important than the truth.
Wow, and you idiots wonder why so many of these individuals left.
I want to thank winston for sticking around and giving us his helpful
advice that has benefited me many times over the years. His insight and >available resources are something that has proven to be of great value to >these groups.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP >>product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
oh boy, you found a typo. Nothing gets by you, Jeff.
On 25/09/2026 in message <1195plq$3is3k$1@dont-email.me> sticks wrote:
On 9/25/2026 2:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston
wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was
already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less
reach, scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to
access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a
MSFT-a MVP and that is more important than the truth.
Wow, and you idiots wonder why so many of these individuals left.
The advice from MVPs was always suspect because they ignored practical knowledge and just spouted the party line sadly.
I want to thank winston for sticking around and giving us his helpful
advice that has benefited me many times over the years.-a His insight
and available resources are something that has proven to be of great
value to these groups.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an
NNTP product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
oh boy, you found a typo.-a Nothing gets by you, Jeff.
That's an assumption on your part presumably?
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston wrote:
Basically, "it's our ball, and we're taking it away"; the rest of us
just had lots of other balls to play with, and didn't really care if you >>> closed your little sports ground, we had several others, mostly less
restrictive too. Slight sadness at loss of some friends, but at least
some of those came with us to the new alt. 'groups, if they could avoid
Microsoft finding out in the case of those who were MS employees.
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was
already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach,
scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT
MVP and that is more important than the truth.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
On 9/25/2026 8:20 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1195plq$3is3k$1@dont-email.me> sticks wrote:
On 9/25/2026 2:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston >>>>wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was >>>>>already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach, >>>>>scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT-a >>>>MVP and that is more important than the truth.
Wow, and you idiots wonder why so many of these individuals left.
The advice from MVPs was always suspect because they ignored practical >>knowledge and just spouted the party line sadly.
Oh, I'm sure there have been some who were overly loyal to MSFT. But you >weren't talking about them. You were specifically directing your jab at >winston. If you have been paying attention here over the years, you would >know your statement is absolutely rubbish when talking about this good man.
I want to thank winston for sticking around and giving us his helpful >>>advice that has benefited me many times over the years.-a His insight and >>>available resources are something that has proven to be of great value to >>>these groups.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP >>>>product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
oh boy, you found a typo.-a Nothing gets by you, Jeff.
That's an assumption on your part presumably?
No, that's humor. This is an assumption, and a bad one at that:
"I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT MVP >and that is more important than the truth."
On 09/25/2026 3:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston >>wrote:
Basically, "it's our ball, and we're taking it away"; the rest of us >>>>just had lots of other balls to play with, and didn't really care if you >>>>closed your little sports ground, we had several others, mostly less >>>>restrictive too. Slight sadness at loss of some friends, but at least >>>>some of those came with us to the new alt. 'groups, if they could avoid >>>>Microsoft finding out in the case of those who were MS employees.
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was >>>already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach, >>>scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT MVP >>and that is more important than the truth.
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP >>product (did MSFT really call it NTTP?).
Not an MVP. It's rare these days to even find one in the alt.c.o.windows >groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/real >reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and
monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or opine
but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and understanding of >MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually wrong and
unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and and up to the >ending of NNTP support.
The Prolog group has little significance to NNTP or MSFT's 2010 final >decision to NNTP support/monitoring.
On 25/09/2026 in message <1195plq$3is3k$1@dont-email.me> sticks wrote:Yes, I had been wondering that.
On 9/25/2026 2:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me> ....winston
wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was
already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less reach, >>>> scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product to access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a MSFT MVP >>> and that is more important than the truth.
Wow, and you idiots wonder why so many of these individuals left.
The advice from MVPs was always suspect because they ignored practical knowledge and just spouted the party line sadly.
I'm pretty sure I have had useful advice/information from Winston.I want to thank winston for sticking around and giving us his helpful
advice that has benefited me many times over the years. His insight and
available resources are something that has proven to be of great value to >> these groups.
That was what was puzzling me (not Prolog as such, I'm into that) -
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP []
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/real reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and
monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or
opine but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and
understanding of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually
wrong and unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and
and up to the ending of NNTP support.
The Prolog group has little significance to NNTP or MSFT's 2010 final decision to NNTP support/monitoring.
On 26/09/2026 7:09 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:[]
You are welcome to your opinion, I only found this group recently and
"winston" sadly comes across as one of the MVPs I described.
Why's that?? Because he seem so ready to offer his valuable advise??
On 25/09/2026 in message <11961lj$3m17g$1@dont-email.me> sticks wrote:
On 9/25/2026 8:20 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1195plq$3is3k$1@dont-email.me> sticks wrote:
On 9/25/2026 2:43 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 25/09/2026 in message <1194n05$3799q$1@dont-email.me>
....winston wrote:
Maybe...but another way to look at it.
MSFT never closed their 'little sports ground', the home field was >>>>>> already open for business, in use, and plans for future a given.
NTTP was always the away field, with declining attendance, less
reach, scorched feedback, and without any supported MSFT product
to-a access.
I really don't know why you protesteth so much, unless you are a
MSFT MVP and that is more important than the truth.
Wow, and you idiots wonder why so many of these individuals left.
The advice from MVPs was always suspect because they ignored
practical knowledge and just spouted the party line sadly.
Oh, I'm sure there have been some who were overly loyal to MSFT.-a But
you weren't talking about them.-a You were specifically directing your
jab at winston.-a If you have been paying attention here over the
years, you would know your statement is absolutely rubbish when
talking about this good man.
You are welcome to your opinion, I only found this group recently and "winston" sadly comes across as one of the MVPs I described.
On 2026/9/25 16:4:27, ....winston wrote:
[]
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/realI think the problem is you are giving the _impression_ that you thought
reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and
monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or
opine but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and
understanding of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually
wrong and unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and
and up to the ending of NNTP support.
The Prolog group has little significance to NNTP or MSFT's 2010 final
decision to NNTP support/monitoring.
MS's reasons for quitting usenet were good reasons for everybody, and
not just for them; there are those of us who disagree (i. e. we intend
to keep using it). If I have read you wrong[ly], I apologise.
You are welcome to your opinion, I only found this group recently and >>"winston" sadly comes across as one of the MVPs I described.
Why's that?? Because he seem so ready to offer his valuable advise??
I'm pretty sure I have had useful advice/information from Winston.
[]
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP
That was what was puzzling me (not Prolog as such, I'm into that) -
Winston seemed, or was giving the impression that he, didn't like usenet much, and was using Microsoft's abandonment of it to ... I'm not sure what.
On 09/25/2026 3:22 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Thank you. My postings have always been based on culling information
I'm pretty sure I have had useful advice/information from Winston.
from multiple sources for the *Alt* NNTP groups I monitor(Win11, Win10, SeaMonkey), private listservvers(admins Enterprise and Consumer, the
former with a few MSFT personnel), Social Media(Reddit, Twitter, but no Facebook), and tribal knowledge.
That was what was puzzling me (not Prolog as such, I'm into that) -
The Prolog group is going strong on Usenet and that doesn't have an NNTP >> []
Winston seemed, or was giving the impression that he, didn't like usenet
much, and was using Microsoft's abandonment of it to ... I'm not sure what.
Usenet for the most part on the groups I monitor(and only ETSept) does
have value, though I filter/delete at the entire ETSept server level - currently 34 nyms/emails from posters offering little or no value are
never seen.
i.e. I like Usenet but limit it to where the most value(and
entertainment) is available.
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the news groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/real
reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and
monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or
opine but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and
understanding of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually
wrong and unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and
and up to the ending of NNTP support.
You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with the
situation at that time.
On 09/22/2026, Jeff Gaines wrote:
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>>>based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the >>>>news groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/real >>>reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and >>>monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or opine >>>but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and understanding of >>>MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually wrong and >>>unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and and up to the >>>ending of NNTP support.
You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with the situation >>at that time.
Yes, it does. It provided more than sufficient information to prove that >MSFT decision was not a singular reason('avoid criticism in the news >groups')
MSFT rarely, and especially in the case of NNTP, no one single item drove >the entire decision making and that process and reasons started 2 yrs
before discontinuing monitoring of NNTP groups for MSFT products.
On 28/09/2026 in message <119dvpa$2dogh$1@dont-email.me> ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026, Jeff Gaines wrote:
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to >>>>> web based forums that it could control content to avoid the
criticism in the news groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/
real reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support
and monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or
opine but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and
understanding of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is
usually-a wrong and unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions
before and-a and up to the ending of NNTP support.
You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with the
situation at that time.
Yes, it does. It provided more than sufficient information to prove
that MSFT decision was not a singular reason('avoid criticism in the
news groups')
MSFT rarely, and especially in the case of NNTP, no one single item
drove the entire decision making and that process and reasons started
2 yrs before discontinuing monitoring of NNTP groups for MSFT products.
I say again you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with
the -asituation at that time.
On 09/28/2026 4:45 PM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 28/09/2026 in message <119dvpa$2dogh$1@dont-email.me> ....winston >>wrote:As you are yours.
On 09/22/2026, Jeff Gaines wrote:
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to web >>>>>>based forums that it could control content to avoid the criticism in the
news groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/ real >>>>>reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support and >>>>>monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or opine
but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and understanding >>>>>of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is usually-a wrong and >>>>>unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions before and-a and up to >>>>>the ending of NNTP support.
You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with the situation >>>>at that time.
Yes, it does. It provided more than sufficient information to prove that >>>MSFT decision was not a singular reason('avoid criticism in the news >>>groups')
MSFT rarely, and especially in the case of NNTP, no one single item drove >>>the entire decision making and that process and reasons started 2 yrs >>>before discontinuing monitoring of NNTP groups for MSFT products.
I say again you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with >>the -asituation at that time.
- though, at that time(2010 end of MSFT support in newsgroups), no email >client in Windows(and known in 2008, that since Vista would be the last to >include only a mail(a metro app - Windows Mail) client but no nntp client. >i.e. in 2010, that decision was 2 yrs old(one could even say 4 yr old,
since Vista was RTM'd in 2006). Thus, that 2010 end-of-support for NNTP, >never really had any relevance to one singular reason(yours, to avoid >criticism in news groups). Again 2008(2yrs before 'at that time'),
internal support for Windows from consumers' reporting had already been >directed to monitor Answers, Social Media, Live forums, and few select >blog/web sites.
On 09/28/2026 4:45 PM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 28/09/2026 in message <119dvpa$2dogh$1@dont-email.me> ....winston wrote:
On 09/22/2026, Jeff Gaines wrote:
They were carried by the major players like NIN. Microsoft moved to >>>>> web based forums that it could control content to avoid the
criticism in the news groups.
No protesting...just providing the background, timing, and truth/
real reasons for MSFT's internal decisions to discontinue support
and monitoring of NNTP groups.
- folks holding similar opinions(like yours) can always believe or >>>> opine but in almost all cases, their knowledge, perception and
understanding of MSFT's NNTP support and discontinuing it, is
usuallya wrong and unfortunately ignorant of the internal decisions >>>> before anda and up to the ending of NNTP support.
You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with the
situation at that time.
Yes, it does. It provided more than sufficient information to prove
that MSFT decision was not a singular reason('avoid criticism in the
news groups')
MSFT rarely, and especially in the case of NNTP, no one single item
drove the entire decision making and that process and reasons started
2 yrs before discontinuing monitoring of NNTP groups for MSFT products.
I say again you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't tally with
the asituation at that time.
As you are yours.
- though, at that time(2010 end of MSFT support in newsgroups), no
email client in Windows(and known in 2008, that since Vista would be the last to include only a mail(a metro app - Windows Mail) client but no
nntp client.
i.e. in 2010, that decision was 2 yrs old(one could even say 4 yr old, since Vista was RTM'd in 2006). Thus, that 2010 end-of-support for NNTP, never really had any relevance to one singular reason(yours, to avoid criticism in news groups). Again 2008(2yrs before 'at that time'),
internal support for Windows from consumers' reporting had already been directed to monitor Answers, Social Media, Live forums, and few select blog/web sites.
...winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
As you are yours.
- though, at that time(2010 end of MSFT support in newsgroups), no
email client in Windows(and known in 2008, that since Vista would be the
last to include only a mail(a metro app - Windows Mail) client but no
nntp client.
Sorry, this is a bit hard to parse, but if you're saying that Windows
Mail [1] (in Vista), didn't do newsgroups, then that's (AFAIK/AFAICT)
wrong. (Just to be sure, I did a Google search on "newsreader in Windows Vista Windows Mail" and both the 'AI Overview' and many documents,
including a (Dutch) Wikipedia page [2]), confirm what I know/remember).
As Windows Vista - and hence Windows Mail's newsgroup client - was supported till April 2017 (I used it till May 2015), i.e. 7 years later,
the argument of no supported newsgroup client in 2010, is invalid.
Anyway, as mentioned, the need for a bundled/built-in newsreader in Windows (Vista or any other version), is irrelevant.
Analogy: In Windows 7 and 8[.1], Windows didn't include an e-mail
client. Did that mean that Microsoft stopped its e-mail services
(Hotmail or whatever it was called)? Of course not. So what goes for
e-mail, also goes for newsgroups.
> As has been said/implied, by repeating Microsoft's - mostly bogus -i.e. in 2010, that decision was 2 yrs old(one could even say 4 yr old,
since Vista was RTM'd in 2006). Thus, that 2010 end-of-support for NNTP,
never really had any relevance to one singular reason(yours, to avoid
criticism in news groups). Again 2008(2yrs before 'at that time'),
internal support for Windows from consumers' reporting had already been
directed to monitor Answers, Social Media, Live forums, and few select
blog/web sites.
The bottom line is that Microsoft switched to web services, etc.. The bogus no-supported-bundled-newsreader argument may have been used
internally, but is irrelevant for the rest of the world.
arguments over and over, you give the impression that you agree withNever stated I agreed with them(have already made the clear in
them. If that's not the case, I think you should make that (more) clear
and should stop repeating them.
[1] You seem to imply that Windows Mail (in Vista) was "a metro app". It
of course wasn't, because Metro apps didn't appear until Windows 8[.1]
The 'Windows Live Mail' page does specifically mentions 'newsreader': <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_Mail>
Bottom line: Outlook Express, Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail did newsgroups.
On 09/30/2026 6:17 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
...winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
As you are yours.
- though, at that time(2010 end of MSFT support in newsgroups), no
email client in Windows(and known in 2008, that since Vista would be the >> last to include only a mail(a metro app - Windows Mail) client but no
nntp client.
Sorry, this is a bit hard to parse, but if you're saying that Windows Mail [1] (in Vista), didn't do newsgroups, then that's (AFAIK/AFAICT) wrong. (Just to be sure, I did a Google search on "newsreader in Windows Vista Windows Mail" and both the 'AI Overview' and many documents, including a (Dutch) Wikipedia page [2]), confirm what I know/remember).
Not exactly what I posted.
Vista did not as released include an client with nttp support.
- Vista as released only had the Metro Windows Mail app. That same
applies to any MSFT o/s later(8, 10, 11...no included client for nntp,
just mail).
- Just because one could install a stand-alone client(TBird,
SeaMonkey, WLive Mail, or other 3rd party) does not validate MSFT
supporting NNTP.
As Windows Vista - and hence Windows Mail's newsgroup client - was supported till April 2017 (I used it till May 2015), i.e. 7 years later, the argument of no supported newsgroup client in 2010, is invalid.
Anyway, as mentioned, the need for a bundled/built-in newsreader in Windows (Vista or any other version), is irrelevant.
Analogy: In Windows 7 and 8[.1], Windows didn't include an e-mail client. Did that mean that Microsoft stopped its e-mail services
(Hotmail or whatever it was called)? Of course not. So what goes for e-mail, also goes for newsgroups.
See earlier...never said one couldn't install any other client. The
reason for ending monitoring in NNTP support(internally) was not
entirely related to control and criticism(as JG stated in this thread).
- multiple reasons existed, and the decisions for doing so began in
i.e. in 2010, that decision was 2 yrs old(one could even say 4 yr old, >> since Vista was RTM'd in 2006). Thus, that 2010 end-of-support for NNTP, >> never really had any relevance to one singular reason(yours, to avoid
criticism in news groups). Again 2008(2yrs before 'at that time'),
internal support for Windows from consumers' reporting had already been
directed to monitor Answers, Social Media, Live forums, and few select
blog/web sites.
The bottom line is that Microsoft switched to web services, etc.. The bogus no-supported-bundled-newsreader argument may have been used internally, but is irrelevant for the rest of the world.> As has been said/implied, by repeating Microsoft's - mostly bogus -
arguments over and over, you give the impression that you agree withNever stated I agreed with them(have already made the clear in
them. If that's not the case, I think you should make that (more) clear
and should stop repeating them.
previous post)
[1] You seem to imply that Windows Mail (in Vista) was "a metro app". It
of course wasn't, because Metro apps didn't appear until Windows 8[.1]
My fault, you are correct, it was a 32 bit app.
The 'Windows Live Mail' page does specifically mentions 'newsreader': <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_Mail>
Bottom line: Outlook Express, Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail did newsgroups.
Sure they did, but not a reason for ending support to monitor nntp groups.
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